Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

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Post Post #139 (isolation #0) » Thu May 10, 2012 8:35 am

Post by mastin2 »

Do you think there could be a reward for QTs? I'm not quite sure what it'd be ("Greatest Ghost Gathering" or something like that, most likely), but I think there should be a scummy for them. I've been in plenty of totally-awesome dead QTs in games which were totally pathetic (though one could argue that the dead QTs were totally awesome because the scum killed all the totally awesome players and left only the totally pathetic ones behind :P), and that means that they'd pretty much never get nom'd for a scummy due to the in-game play, but if there was a QT award of some kind...

(Gah, I feel like I could explain this so much clearer. But do you get the general idea and do you think it has merit?)
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Post Post #204 (isolation #1) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:27 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 203, Quilford wrote:There should be a Best and Fairest award for a player with exemplary skill who promotes and practises a policy of good sportsmanship in game and who creates an enjoyable atmosphere.

+1
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Post Post #398 (isolation #2) » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:47 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 378, xRECKONERx wrote:#4) Get rid of Name in Orange and instead make it the "Golden Fedora" lifetime achievement award that is only handed out by mith whenever he feels someone needs it.
I think in theory this is a good idea, but I kinda feel like it cheapens the achievement if it's something handed out every year or two. Basically, to me, it feels as if a Golden Fedora is like a "lifetime name-should-be-in-orange" reward, if that makes sense, a greater version of the reward. Something not to be handed out trivially, but to be handed out on incredibly special occasions.
Last edited by mastin2 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #458 (isolation #3) » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:53 am

Post by mastin2 »

I just realized a potential flaw in the Rising Star award.

In theory? The award is for this:
This award is given to the player that is a rising star in the game of mafia, showing great promise to join the elite echelon of mafia players. This award replaces both the Best Newbie award and Most Improved Player awards, and judges may consider elements of both those previous awards in deciding this award.
For newbies that are on their ways to becoming stars, and vets who are rising up in the ranks. (Effectively.) In theory.

But in practice? The award is simply a combo-award between Don Corelone and Paragon of Mafia Hunters. By which, I mean, the player being nominated often is nominated more just because they're a good mafia player and a good town player, rather than because they're a true rising star. Granted, most of the nominations in 2013 were for players having joined the site in the last two years. But with only a couple of exceptions, nearly every player nominated was--by the time of their nomination--either already established among the elite (not rising to their ranks), or had enough games under their belt to have already become recognized (not becoming a star).

If by the time the ceremony rolled around, the players being nominated for the award having done so would be okay. But I mean it. Basically every nomination for rising star is of a player who has already become integrated thoroughly into the elite. Basically, I feel like the award is not being used for the purpose it was intended. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But it's something I thought I'd bring up.
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Post Post #473 (isolation #4) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:59 am

Post by mastin2 »

In post 472, zoraster wrote:I think maybe we should step back and rethink what are the things we want to recognize and what are the things that we can actually differentiate? In other words, clearing our minds about award categories, what are realistic things we can target that make our site better or show off a player's ability, etc.
For example here are some things that may be worthy of recognition without regard to differentiating them:

Player Side

The person who is toughest to catch as scum
The person who finds scum the best
The person who can control the town to get the lynches he wants to best (probably in some combination of either of the two above)
The person who makes games more fun to play in, not just funny or nice or whatever but people that make the game better by their presence.
The person who pulled victory from the mouth of defeat
The person who helped new players get better (IC or otherwise)
The person who players think of as the best overall player, regardless of their side.
The person who has shown the most improvement over the past year and is now one of the best players on the site


Moderator Side

The moderator who comes up with the most original ideas
The moderator who executes and refines an idea the best
The moderator who creates the most fun environment
The moderator who provided the best games over the past year
The moderator who did the nitty-gritty of moderating the best

Games

The game that's the most entertaining to read for an outsider
The game that shows off a town's teamwork best
The game that shows off a scum's teamwork best
The game that was most closely fought
The game that had the most original idea behind it
The game that used power roles the most effectively

Community Side

The poster who was the most thoughtful about mafia
The reviewer who helped games the most
The person who makes the site a better place just by posting
The funniest poster
The most intelligent poster


Anyway that's a start. Feel free to add more things to that list. Of course not all of these can be made into an award. Some things are just too vague to really determine. Other things just don't provide enough of a handhold to differentiate between nominated categories. Others can and should be combined.
I really, REALLY like this as a start. There's basically none in the list that I think aren't scummy-worthy, even though you're quite correct in that they shouldn't all be scummies and that some would be combined. I really can't think of anything to add to the list. It's just a matter of that division.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #5) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:21 am

Post by mastin2 »

Most of the points have been put forward already, but presenting them together to the best of my ability for the strongest argument I can make:

Be it separate alignments (and thus, multiple awards) or a single award for any alignment, I think the idea has merit. Let's face it: as town, you are not in control of the game. You're one voice, among the many. Sometimes, things really are out of control. You can do literally everything in your power to try and win the game, to try and get people to follow you, and yet, sometimes, instead of it simply "not being good enough", it is
physically impossible
for you to have ever made a difference. We all know the type of scenario. (As just one hypothetical, imagine a town cop has a guilty on you and you're a VT. The result is only possible by trusting in the presence of, say, a framer. If you were any other player in the game, you'd be lynching yourself, but you
know
you're town. Yet there's absolutely nothing you can do.) When faced against people who will not budge, ever, no matter what argument you make, thus, sealing your fate. Especially when they have the backing of the scum. Because town refusing to listen to you and scum trying to make sure that continues can (and often does) lead to a situation in which winning their favor isn't just "well, they simply didn't have the skill to pull the right move". It's that there was no move that could have worked, and they were doomed to fail from the get-go.

The same is true for scum. Often, you will find scum that face insurmountable odds. Such as, say, one against 15. (Yes, it's happened.) With multiple town power roles still alive. If you think scum can win that situation, you're a liar. They face impossible odds, and yet, instead of giving up, they keep up the fight, and get close. But the inevitable catches up to them, as there is only so much you can do as one scum when there is a huge pile of town people (often many of them having evidence clearing them) still alive. One against ten. One against twelve. You get the idea. Many scum players have found themselves in that scenario...but instead of throwing in the towel, trying for the win. Some of them get close (the closest I've seen was Metal Sonic getting to 3P in Xeno), with 5p being a common "run out of time" for them. (There are a TON of examples of 1vMANY that end at that number.)

So in both cases (and both happen a fair amount), the player in question is devoting everything they possibly can to their alignment. They are trying, fighting, for the win harder than the call of duty obligates them to. As town, you could just give some reads, and give a defense, and if you get lynched, oh well. As scum, you can put in some nightkills, make some basic posting, and if you get lynched, oh well. A "best performance", though, is much, much more than that: the player goes above and beyond that call of duty, to try and truly win the game, putting in more effort than any other player does. It is them giving their best, in spite of facing odds that would tempt others to give up, even if they are ultimately unsuccessful.

Of course, this means the player nominated obviously is going to have skill, right?
Not necessarily. Sometimes, you have a player who has a single game where they shine, and that's it. (It's why Best Scumhunter and Cunning Manipulator are body of work awards, after all.) A "best performance" scummy can recognize that player, even though they didn't win. Furthermore, even if they
are
good enough, skilled enough, to be worthy of a scummy. As has been so said many times, realistically, who's going to win the scummy? The player who performed well in a game and won, or the player who performed well in a game yet lost? If their body of work is about equal, then the former will win 100% of the time, because of the mindset (conscious or not!) of, "Oh, the latter lost because they weren't as good as they could have been", when as discussed above, that is rather often not the case and their loss was out of their control. Naturally, in THEORY the player nominated for a loss could win. But in reality, they never, ever, EVER will, and again, if you think otherwise, you're being hopelessly naive.

It is basically a scummy that would be covering something that is worthy of acknowledgement, and yet not covered by other scummies. That's why I think the idea has merits. (Note that I'm presenting the strongest argument I can think of for the change; you'd be able to counter and dissect most of these points if you strongly disagreed enough to advocate against it.)
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