NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Thor665]

No, I could just tell what you were going for. And, look! I was right! I'm not admitting my vote is weak, I just knew you were going to say it was.

Are you saying your vote is strong?

It's hardly just a lurker lynch. Have you read his posts? Mindless bandwagon hops, total uselessness, and even manages to contradict himself despite never saying anything useful.

Does he not do that when town?

In other news, every time I see that emoticon I want to lynch it, but I'm trying to restrain myself.

And by the way, I'll attack whatever I want. Just because my vote isn't the most popular in the world doesn't mean I'm not allowed to criticize a wagon I think is on town. Where do *you* get off telling me not to give my opinion?

I get off on a lot of things. I'm easy going like that.
But I do think it's valid to question you attacking and soft supporting a wagon when you are derping around and not actually pushing a wagon - because it looks like potential scum play. You're soft supporting it, while putting yourself against it, and also "working" a vote that isn't it and never will be a valid wagon because you don't care to push it.
So what I see is scum, who knows Nacho will flip town, who would like to see the lynch happen, wants town points for not supporting it, doesn't actually want to derail it, and is content with his "valid" wagon that no one will question because...hey, look, useless poster!
That's where I get off.

Now, where do you get off?

Oh, so you *did* already know the answer to your question and were just trying to get me to say it to make your argument look better. Thanks for admitting that.

Not a problem - I think it worked good as a strategy.
Honestly, I couldn't remember who or what you were voting, but I knew that because I couldn't it would play out this way.

What more can I do for pressure? I'm voting him, he's continuing to be scum, no one else seems to care. I'm not going to do a Bacde impression, that's not how I play.

Well...you *could* go totally crazy and, when attacking a wagon you think is on town...y'know...mention your good wagon on scum.
Or maybe, like me, question the value of some people's votes and suggest your vote is in a good place and they should move.
Or at least be willing to discuss your case when outright asked about it because you think it's a good case as opposed to getting paranoid and immediately expecting to be attacked.
Something crazy like that?

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 8 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Slandaar, Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Om the Destroyer, Baby Spice)

fuzzybutternut - 3 (thezmon221, Cephrir, Oversoul)

ArcAngel9 - 3 (DLG, Syryana, Desperado)
Red Ryu - 2 (ArcAngel9, Kublai Khan)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Thor665)
Bacde - 1 (Bulbazak)
Desperado - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (fuzzybutternut)

Not Voting - 4 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix, BeautyAndTheBeast, Amethyst Kitty)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

Red Ryu is V/LA from Friday, May 17th until Monday, May 20th.
At least half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until Tuesday, May 21st.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

And at that point in time I was on a wagon with two votes - which...y'know, I wasn't complaining about. Maybe you should look up what hypocrisy means?

compared to other wagons that had more legs. not to mention at the time you whined you were being sticky with your vote. that post was still hypocritical IMO

That's funny - he said he was not reading what you were saying and was letting you run with it.
Is one of you lying, or am I misunderstanding something?

I am not sure if he was so much as lying as he really just skimmed my back and forth with you. I know he has read at least 1 post cos he said something about it. he knows how I feel about you being scum cos I pretty much have said, "I think thor is scum" and asked him why he is giving you a town read. he says you are playing like you always do which is meta and I wish that he would just acknowledge that he plays by meta too. he says that my case on you is based on something you do as town but I don't go by pattern matching I go by how a person thinks and if it feels natural. you feel edgy. this is why I am reading you as scum.

As I recall, i got you to "wilt" once before. So, I'm not sure why I'm supposed to perfectly know that you won't. Next thing you know you'll be telling me I can't call you a liar.

when did you ever get me to wilt. and I am not lying we are freaking screaming town

it kind of feels like you are pushing my buttons in order to react in a negative way. this is why I find you highly manipulative and I will be surprised if you do it to this degree as town.

I, sadly, consider this in line with town Nacho. It may or may not also be in line with scum Nacho, but from recent experiences I don't currently find it out of whack.

so if you are wobbling on this read why not try to engage cos otherwise this is hedging where are you trying to get a better read off nacho

[Thor665]

compared to other wagons that had more legs. not to mention at the time you whined you were being sticky with your vote. that post was still hypocritical IMO

Your definition of both sticky and "wagons with more legs" is pretty iffy if you paid half a second's attention to my reads and actions.

you feel edgy. this is why I am reading you as scum.

when did you ever get me to wilt. and I am not lying we are freaking screaming town

Audio Mafia.
You are screaming that you are town - I just don't believe you.

it kind of feels like you are pushing my buttons in order to react in a negative way. this is why I find you highly manipulative and I will be surprised if you do it to this degree as town.

You've seen me do the exact sort of thing in audio mafia.
These sorts of lies are why I don't believe you.

so if you are wobbling on this read why not try to engage cos otherwise this is hedging where are you trying to get a better read off nacho

I didn't say I was wobbling - I said I didn't find this play of his to be in line with scum Nacho because town Nacho wouldn't play like this.
My reply is - I've seen town Nacho play like this.
My personal read of Nacho is town, but it has nothing to do with the meta case, the meta case on him is null in my opinion because I disagree with the meta conclusion, because he can be quite terrible, lurky, and unresponsive as town. I think it's a shame he does that, but he does do that now. I agree that he didn't use to. Meta changes.

[Seanald]

Mollie is the paranoid one on you and Bacde

mollie being paranoid = her making really shitty lynch decisions, so tell her to stop

[Cephrir]

No, I could just tell what you were going for. And, look! I was right! I'm not admitting my vote is weak, I just knew you were going to say it was.

Are you saying your vote is strong?

It's strong in that I'm voting for scum. Is it likely to result in a lynch today, probably not.

It's hardly just a lurker lynch. Have you read his posts? Mindless bandwagon hops, total uselessness, and even manages to contradict himself despite never saying anything useful.

Does he not do that when town?

I don't have the slightest idea.

And by the way, I'll attack whatever I want. Just because my vote isn't the most popular in the world doesn't mean I'm not allowed to criticize a wagon I think is on town. Where do *you* get off telling me not to give my opinion?

I get off on a lot of things. I'm easy going like that.
But I do think it's valid to question you attacking and soft supporting a wagon when you are derping around and not actually pushing a wagon - because it looks like potential scum play. You're soft supporting it, while putting yourself against it, and also "working" a vote that isn't it and never will be a valid wagon because you don't care to push it.
So what I see is scum, who knows Nacho will flip town, who would like to see the lynch happen, wants town points for not supporting it, doesn't actually want to derail it, and is content with his "valid" wagon that no one will question because...hey, look, useless poster!
That's where I get off.

Now, where do you get off?

Soft supporting? So you're trying to tell me the only reactions possible to a wagon are voting for it and the AA9 brand "OMG hell no" reaction? I know that I'm not the world's best at reading other players, so I never get confident enough in my reads to have either of those reactions. I don't feel strongly enough about this to try to derail the wagon, I see better scumhunters than myself on it, but I'm not going to put my vote where my own honest opinion isn't except to get a deadline compromise lynch.

You can argue that I'm trying to stay off the lynch for 'town points' if Nacho's town. Go ahead, knock yourself out. If he flips scum I fully expect to be targetted for 'soft defending' him too. Any argument that can be turned on its head and used to argue the opposite that easily is useless in my book.

I don't see the use in quoting random posts and saying "well why don't you try voting for fuzzy?" like you're doing with your suspects. That's not going to get you any more votes, all it does it remind everyone with every other sentence where your vote is. I'd love this to be a valid wagon but the Nacho lynch seems like such a foregone conclusion at this point that I know that wouldn't work even if it was within my playstyle (it's not). When I push a wagon I do it by presenting a case and then rebutting arguments against me.

Oh, so you *did* already know the answer to your question and were just trying to get me to say it to make your argument look better. Thanks for admitting that.

Not a problem - I think it worked good as a strategy.
Honestly, I couldn't remember who or what you were voting, but I knew that because I couldn't it would play out this way.

So you were manipulating me, gotcha.

What more can I do for pressure? I'm voting him, he's continuing to be scum, no one else seems to care. I'm not going to do a Bacde impression, that's not how I play.

Well...you *could* go totally crazy and, when attacking a wagon you think is on town...y'know...mention your good wagon on scum.
Or maybe, like me, question the value of some people's votes and suggest your vote is in a good place and they should move.
Or at least be willing to discuss your case when outright asked about it because you think it's a good case as opposed to getting paranoid and immediately expecting to be attacked.
Something crazy like that?

As I said above I think your technique is useless. "Hey look at Slandaar/AK/whoever else it was" is not going to get you a vote ever. I just did discuss the case, did you read the middle of my post? I also sensed a contrived as hell attack coming for your direction, so I figured I might as well pre-emptively defend myself at the same time. I would have discussed it more amicably if your initial posts weren't obviously hostile.

[Cephrir]

It's hardly just a lurker lynch. Have you read his posts? Mindless bandwagon hops, total uselessness, and even manages to contradict himself despite never saying anything useful.

Does he not do that when town?

I don't have the slightest idea.

Correction: I have a *slight* idea from the one game I've played with fuzzy. He didn't scumhunt very hard, but as I've said before, he at least made an effort, and didn't bandwagon hop as shamelessly. But this doesn't approach an actual meta read.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Your definition of both sticky and "wagons with more legs" is pretty iffy if you paid half a second's attention to my reads and actions.

well your action so far is to keep your vote on us. which is pretty dumb since you could be using that power elsewhere

don't give me that face

Audio Mafia.
You are screaming that you are town - I just don't believe you.

what are you even talking about I did not "wilt" in that game if anything you dramaqueened all over the place. and as far as you not believing me I think it is cos you are not reading my posts except for the ones that have to do with you

You've seen me do the exact sort of thing in audio mafia.
These sorts of lies are why I don't believe you.

your push feels different. I am not sure if it is cos we are a hydra or not.

I didn't say I was wobbling - I said I didn't find this play of his to be in line with scum Nacho because town Nacho wouldn't play like this.

wait wat. so why is your vote not on him

My reply is - I've seen town Nacho play like this.
My personal read of Nacho is town, but it has nothing to do with the meta case, the meta case on him is null in my opinion because I disagree with the meta conclusion, because he can be quite terrible, lurky, and unresponsive as town. I think it's a shame he does that, but he does do that now. I agree that he didn't use to. Meta changes.

hhhhmmm....

he can be lurky as town sometimes. that isn't why I want to vote him though

ugh thor you confuse me

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Mollie is the paranoid one on you and Bacde

mollie being paranoid = her making really shitty lynch decisions, so tell her to stop

Our vote isn't on Bacde or Thor, so...?

What are you trying to accomplish with this post?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Mollie is the paranoid one on you and Bacde

mollie being paranoid = her making really shitty lynch decisions, so tell her to stop

Our vote isn't on Bacde or Thor, so...?

What are you trying to accomplish with this post?

I know what you are saying seanladerina

bc I am good with I am going to try to not back out of this read at all. thor I need a few rounds with

[Kublai Khan]

Have you EVER pressured someone to follow reads that you aren't happy with?

Weren't you just doubting your Nachomamma8 read a couple of pages ago?

You've literally parked your vote and have been ignoring the rest of the game (see: Oversoul's claim). Regardless of whether your right or wrong on Nachomamma8, what's your plan for reading everyone else? Are you going to go back and actually read the game or just wait to be lead by the nose?

I received A LOT more people defending my claim than I expected which I find strange as hell considering everything.

I really like this post. Which of your Nacho/OS scenarios do you think is more likely?

Not scum together. The following isn't the interactions of buddies:

Although this is the only thing that you are commenting on now that I have basically confirmed your suspicions that the claim was a lie?

hell no, i'm still revelling in that. I'm gonna post in other games first tho.

I don't remember. Probably waiting for everyone to comment is what killed it for me.

I received A LOT more people defending my claim than I expected which I find strange as hell considering everything.

It is an addiction Baby Spice. You haven't lived on the wild side until you've done it.

In no particular order:
Not willing to lynch Day 1: EddieFenix, Slandaar, Bulbazak, Cephrir, CrashTextDummie, Syryana, Bacde, Nachomamma8
Very willing to lynch Day 1: Red Ryu, Oversoul, Amethyst Kitty, Baby Spice

[Kublai Khan]

Huh. Oversoul vote got left off after the triple Oversoul quote. Oversoul is lying out his ass. He needs rope.

VOTE: Oversoul

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

explain

[Kublai Khan]

Oversoul:

Fake claim gambit.
Plenty of activity.
Retracted claim.
Slow on analysis.
Analysis given is poor and superficial.
Claims boredom and disinterest due to waiting for responses.
Posted that he got a lot of response and that he enjoys the thrill of gambitting.
Soft-claiming that he shouldn't be vigged.

[Bacde]

Are you going to go back and actually read the game or just wait to be lead by the nose?

has my play this game indicated to you that I am trying to be led by the nose?

[Kublai Khan]

Are you going to go back and actually read the game or just wait to be lead by the nose?

has my play this game indicated to you that I am trying to be led by the nose?

It's not.

If we don't lynch Nachomamma8 today, you'll be beating the war drums tomorrow.
If we do lynch Nachomamma8 today, you'll... just go off whatever is posted Day 2?

My point is, you're not reading much outside your tunnel. If you had a broader game read, I might trust your Nachomamma8 case more. But as of right now, it's mostly confirmation bias.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Oversoul:

Fake claim gambit.
Plenty of activity.
Retracted claim.
Slow on analysis.
Analysis given is poor and superficial.
Claims boredom and disinterest due to waiting for responses.
Posted that he got a lot of response and that he enjoys the thrill of gambitting.
Soft-claiming that he shouldn't be vigged.

okay

I think

VOTE: oversoul

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

but why is nacho ignoring this game

[Majiffy]

Oversoul:

Fake claim gambit.
Plenty of activity.
Retracted claim.
Slow on analysis.
Analysis given is poor and superficial.
Claims boredom and disinterest due to waiting for responses.
Posted that he got a lot of response and that he enjoys the thrill of gambitting.
Soft-claiming that he shouldn't be vigged.

The only hope now, I felt, was the possibility that we'd gone to such excess, with our gig, that nobody in a position to bring the hammer down on us could possibly believe it . . . When you bring an act into this town, you want to bring it in heavy. Don't waste any time with cheap shucks and misdemeanors. Go straight for the jugular. Get right into felonies.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Oversoul:

Fake claim gambit.
Plenty of activity.
Retracted claim.
Slow on analysis.
Analysis given is poor and superficial.
Claims boredom and disinterest due to waiting for responses.
Posted that he got a lot of response and that he enjoys the thrill of gambitting.
Soft-claiming that he shouldn't be vigged.

The only hope now, I felt, was the possibility that we'd gone to such excess, with our gig, that nobody in a position to bring the hammer down on us could possibly believe it . . . When you bring an act into this town, you want to bring it in heavy. Don't waste any time with cheap shucks and misdemeanors. Go straight for the jugular. Get right into felonies.

**

[Nero Cain]

An Oversoul wagon!!!! Stop playing with my heart you guys.

Fuzzy is claiming to have only read 3 pages. Why can't we kill that?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

I'm down with a fuzzy lynch. Still prefer Cephrir or Nacho though.

[Kublai Khan]

Who wrote the second quote?

[Kublai Khan]

Fuzzy is claiming to have only read 3 pages. Why can't we kill that?

The reaction to the fake modkill looked town to me.

Scum are more likely to clam up and see what the fallout is.

If you really want a fuzzybutternut lynch. Post a better case.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Who wrote the second quote?

The Good Dr. Thompson.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Who wrote the second quote?

The Good Dr. Thompson.