Micro 181: Everyone's being watched (Game Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #350 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 7:21 pm

Post by fuzzybutternut »

Clearly I think Zio is scum. Not entirely sure on his partner, though.
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Post Post #351 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 7:25 pm

Post by JasonWazza »


Vote Count 1.9


[3] Fuzzybutternut: Horus, Zionite, Does Bo Know,
[1] RachMarie: Wisdom,
[1] Zionite: Fuzzybutternut,
[1] Miss Destroyer: RachMarie,
[1] Wisdom: Grimgroove,

Not voting: Miss Destroyer, Malakittens,

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-06-07 15:08:42)
Last edited by JasonWazza on Thu May 30, 2013 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #352 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 7:42 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 288, Wisdom wrote:fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.
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Post Post #353 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 8:08 pm

Post by fuzzybutternut »

In post 352, Wisdom wrote:
In post 288, Wisdom wrote:fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.
Iso me.
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Post Post #354 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 8:11 pm

Post by Miss Destroyer »

Fuzzy is town, I'm pretty sure

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Post Post #355 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 8:14 pm

Post by Wisdom »

In post 353, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 352, Wisdom wrote:
In post 288, Wisdom wrote:fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.
Iso me.
I see no case there.
Wanna vote Rach instead?
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Post Post #356 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 8:18 pm

Post by fuzzybutternut »

Not particularly. I don't see her as scum.
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Post Post #357 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 10:34 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 306, Malakittens wrote:
In post 291, Grimgroove wrote:I'm slowly losing touch with this baby. Reading through the topic tonight and posting thoughts tomorrow.
Really? How? You were posting a decent amount prior. I'm not sure how you are losing touch...
There's been a lot of talk about meta that makes it harder for me to follow. For most people (apart from RachMarie) I only have this game to base certain conclusions on.

Just figuring out who "Mara" was, was already challenging, at first I thought it was a typo referring to Malakittens, then I thought it was a typo referring to Marie, and it's only today I realize we're talking about "Miss Destroyer", after reading back from the start of the thread and seeing her confirm under that name. (maybe it would be a good idea to sign the posts with "Mara" instead of the female symbol?)

But yes, a lot of meta-stuff going on.

When just looking at this game both fuzzybutternut and Wisdom would be pinging my radar as leaning scum, Wisdom less so. I find them both too concise when putting forward arguments. Wisdom is definitely providing townie-input by asking relevant and direct questions, but he remains an impenetrable box himself. I'm wary of him becoming some "voice in the sky" that gets taken for granted, without being questioned himself once in a while.

Fuzzybutternut has similar behavior, very short and very careful with giving too much information, completely ignoring cases raised against him. I completely agree with Zionite that this is scummy as hell, yet for some strange reason he's being cleared by his meta as well. Is there anything besides that that is in his favor? I have a hard time seeing arguments within this topic to conlude he's anything but scum.

If I have to clear both of them based on meta (which I'm very reluctant to do), I first would like to here what their meta tells are when they're scummy then. Some of you obviously have quite a few games under your belt with each other, so it's easier to just ask. Or give me pointers on how to do a meta-search on people in a time-efficient way because I can imagine it's better if I do it myself, but it just seems to take so long.

I don't like Mala"s post at all. She admits to the argument not being strong, yet she finds it enough to keep Zionite at L-1. Granted, maybe it's true that at that stage of the game you don't have any better arguments than that, but then why keep the L-1 situation intact at that stage of the game then?
The thing with MIss Destroyer was obviously some misunderstanding. I don't see why Malakittens read it as she did because I don't see how one could come to such an interpretation, but I don't find her interpretation nor her reaction scummy in this instance.
But her 122 really burns my eyes.

I also don't like RachMarie defensiveness in post , and her reads staying on the surface. In her "defense" she has referred more to other games than this one, which I don't feel is a good sign. As she's the only one I know from another game, I have to tell you it's the first time I see her being this "emotional" in her defense. I find it very dodgy. This also burns my eyes. She's taking her discussion with Wisdom to the emotional plane for no reason at all, so I'm guessing it's an appeal to emtion, and scummy.

Miss Destroyer I really can't get a read on, she does provide reads but with very little facts/impressions to back those up. Her also using a lot of meta-tells in her argumentation isn't making this easier.

Does Bo Know I think is town. I still find his L-1-move quite risky, but he's one of the few who is scumhunting and providing the whole deal: arguments, questions, motivations, references, follow-ups and answers (a department where Wisdom is a bit lacking I think). I think the same holds for Zionite as for Does Bo Know (who, judging from his join-date, might be facing the same difficulties I have with all this meta-stuff). While Wisdom is also scumhunting, he's mainly activbe in the questioning department. I feel that in general there's not enough scumhunting and too many people acting as if being stepped on their toes, going into a stubborn shell of self-denfence and defiance.

And Horus, all of his arguments are objectively very smart and thought-out. He's obviously someone very clever, but being logical and good at explaining yourself doesn't necessarily make you town. I found his take on the connection between the Zionite wagon and fuzzybutternut rather strange, and when he said he was tempted to hammer Zionite (but wouldn't do it) it seemed like a strangely emotional argument that made me wonder what was brewing behind all this objective wisdom. Still got a townread on him though (his screamed town.), though I'd like to see more of his opinions on other players. He's only talked about fuzzybutternut and Zionite so far.

UNVOTE:

I am not disinclined to put fuzzybutternut at L-1, but I feel it's a better idea to get a clearer picture of all this meta first.
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Post Post #358 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 10:37 pm

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 245, RachMarie wrote: Some I suspect more than others
Please specify, because as far as I can tell, you didn't.
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Post Post #359 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2013 10:45 pm

Post by Does Bo Know »

@Mala: As far as the scum meta you asked for, I'm thinking of an ongoing game, sorry. Though he did flip in the one I'm thinking of, and it's the most recent scum flip I've seen from him.

His town game is outrageous though. He's usually very loud about his opinions, but the fact he's been ignoring things here and there about himself in this game, makes me feel like he's scum.

That's all I'm gonna answer tonight. I missed three pages of stuff already, it sucks that I don't get to post much during the normal evening.
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Post Post #360 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 2:44 am

Post by Zionite »

In post 348, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 335, RachMarie wrote:umm Fuzzy mine is way out of date too, but got anything else to say? like something relevant to the game at hand?

What do you think of Zio's case on you?

What do you think of how Wis has been defending you?
That is relevant, what with all the meta talk going on.

Zio's case on me is shit. I have no reason to sit here and argue against it, because it's a scum-drawn wagon. Nothing I say is going to make scum change their minds that they want to lynch me. Look elsewhere if you're not scum.
In post 355, Wisdom wrote:
In post 353, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 352, Wisdom wrote:
In post 288, Wisdom wrote:fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.
Iso me.
I see no case there.
Wanna vote Rach instead?
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Post Post #361 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 2:50 am

Post by Zionite »

:evil:
I wonder how many times I'm going to do that.
In post 348, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 335, RachMarie wrote:umm Fuzzy mine is way out of date too, but got anything else to say? like something relevant to the game at hand?

What do you think of Zio's case on you?

What do you think of how Wis has been defending you?
That is relevant, what with all the meta talk going on.

Zio's case on me is shit. I have no reason to sit here and argue against it, because it's a scum-drawn wagon. Nothing I say is going to make scum change their minds that they want to lynch me. Look elsewhere if you're not scum.
Show me how it's shit; it should be easy for you if that's true. If you're town ignoring a case against you, then you're doing the town a disservice by letting us focus on you instead of scum. It's terrible play or scummy as hell, take your pick.
You don't know my alignment unless you're scum. So if you're town, there's the possibility you're WRONG *gasp* and I could change my mind.
Why aren't you using this as an opportunity to show how I'm scum? My case should be laden with misreps and assumptions if I'm scum.
In post 355, Wisdom wrote:
In post 353, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 352, Wisdom wrote:
In post 288, Wisdom wrote:fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.
Iso me.
I see no case there.
Wanna vote Rach instead?
That's the problem. There is no case from Fuzzy. And there continues to be no case even in the face of a wealth of content.
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Post Post #362 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 3:38 am

Post by Grimgroove »

Just a heads up to everyone that, like last week, I won't be able to be online much (or possibly not at all) during the weekend.
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Post Post #363 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:00 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

In post 361, Zionite wrote::evil:
I wonder how many times I'm going to do that.
In post 348, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 335, RachMarie wrote:umm Fuzzy mine is way out of date too, but got anything else to say? like something relevant to the game at hand?

What do you think of Zio's case on you?

What do you think of how Wis has been defending you?
That is relevant, what with all the meta talk going on.

Zio's case on me is shit. I have no reason to sit here and argue against it, because it's a scum-drawn wagon. Nothing I say is going to make scum change their minds that they want to lynch me. Look elsewhere if you're not scum.
Show me how it's shit; it should be easy for you if that's true. If you're town ignoring a case against you, then you're doing the town a disservice by letting us focus on you instead of scum. It's terrible play or scummy as hell, take your pick.
You don't know my alignment unless you're scum. So if you're town, there's the possibility you're WRONG *gasp* and I could change my mind.
Why aren't you using this as an opportunity to show how I'm scum? My case should be laden with misreps and assumptions if I'm scum.
In post 355, Wisdom wrote:
In post 353, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 352, Wisdom wrote:
In post 288, Wisdom wrote:fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.
Iso me.
I see no case there.
Wanna vote Rach instead?
That's the problem. There is no case from Fuzzy. And there continues to be no case even in the face of a wealth of content.
LOL. It's towns prerogative as to who they want to focus on. I've already stated that my wagon is scum-drawn. If they want to continue to look my way, so be it.

I did make a case against you. It wasn't a big case, but it was enough to put you as scum imo.
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Post Post #364 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:07 am

Post by Wisdom »

You need a proper case if you want support on that wagon though.
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Post Post #365 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:10 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

I'm not asking for support on it.

Say I made a good case about him. If he's scum, yeah, that's great and all, but it's day one, and it leaves his partner open to go "oh, hey, I can't save him without outting myself. Oh wells"
If he's town, both scum could go "you know, that's a really good point. I like that case"

No, i'm not doing that. I've stated that I found him scummy. My vote is on him. That's where it's going to stay until I see something scummy somewhere else.
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Post Post #366 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:14 am

Post by Wisdom »

So you don't feel like he should be lynched?
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Post Post #367 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:14 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

I didn't say that, but I'm not going to sit here and say "oh hey come to this wagon it's so much better LOL".

No, I'm going to look for connections as to who I think his partner is, and then go from there.
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Post Post #368 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:16 am

Post by Wisdom »

Don't you think we should see a flip before looking for partners?
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Post Post #369 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 10:16 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

Nope.
Not at all, actually.
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Post Post #370 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 11:25 am

Post by Zionite »

In post 365, fuzzybutternut wrote:I'm not asking for support on it.

Say I made a good case about him. If he's scum, yeah, that's great and all, but it's day one, and it leaves his partner open to go "oh, hey, I can't save him without outting myself. Oh wells"
If he's town, both scum could go "you know, that's a really good point. I like that case"

No, i'm not doing that. I've stated that I found him scummy. My vote is on him. That's where it's going to stay until I see something scummy somewhere else.
In post 369, fuzzybutternut wrote:Nope.
Not at all, actually.
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Post Post #371 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 11:26 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

????
There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
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Post Post #372 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 11:29 am

Post by Zionite »

It's going to keep happening. I'm not going to address it anymore. lol
In post 365, fuzzybutternut wrote:I'm not asking for support on it.

Say I made a good case about him. If he's scum, yeah, that's great and all, but it's day one, and it leaves his partner open to go "oh, hey, I can't save him without outting myself. Oh wells"
If he's town, both scum could go "you know, that's a really good point. I like that case"

No, i'm not doing that. I've stated that I found him scummy. My vote is on him. That's where it's going to stay until I see something scummy somewhere else.
So...you don't care about lynching scum.

You know scum can out themselves in the process of lynching their buddy quite easily. Read the scum game I linked you. I actually gave myself up pretty hard in that game when my buddy RobRoy was getting strung up. So your reasoning is wrong. Btw, how do you know how many scum there are?
In post 369, fuzzybutternut wrote:Nope.
Not at all, actually.
So. Wrong. This actually makes me change my mind in assuming you weren't a terrible player.
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Post Post #373 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 11:32 am

Post by fuzzybutternut »

That's a misrep. No where did I say that I didn't care about lynching scum.

It's a micro, and there is usually 2 scum in a micro, so unless i'm wrong about that, that's how I know.

Really now. Why is that?
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Post Post #374 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2013 12:48 pm

Post by RachMarie »

Grim

Miss D is a hydra of two players. Mara and Human Destroyer (usually called HD)

Hope that helps with the confusion

and please feel free to call me Rach.

As for the suspect some more than others, I tend to view people who I know are good at hiding being scum or people who I feel have posted scummy in the game with more suspicion than peeps that seem more towny BUT no one gets a free pass on D 1 I know anyone can be scumz.
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