Assorted Excellent Idea Mafias

[Fenchurch]

A few questions occurred to me today about modding the Greater Idea deck. Actually I might even have asked these before but if so I can't remember the answers.

1) In end-game situations, does a Judas/Saulus that is currently aligned with the mafia count towards a mafia majority?

2) If a game started where everyone picks town, apart from a Saulus, would that count as having an anti-town faction; would the game begin?

3) If there is a scum majority in end-game but there are still town killing powers (eg. vengeful, vig, dayvig, supersaint), do the scum auto-win?

I'd assume it's No/No/No, but I'm not sure, especially the middle one.

[Fenchurch]

Thanks for the answers everyone! I think I will definitely go with Yes & Yes on my first 1 & 2 in future, the reasons given make sense.

As for 3...

Uhh, there is a difference between "scum majority" and 3:3, at least the way I do math.

But 3:3 can force a deadline no-lynch, so in any scenario I can think of it can be treated the same, can't it?

And if there is EVER a chance that Town can win without scum deciding to no-kill or something equally against their WC, you have to let them play it out. Anything else is unfair to both sides.

In the past I have always tried to calculate whether town still have a shot at winning (usually by franticly consulting with dead players), but it can be quite difficult to do on the fly in a live game, and I always worry I might make a mistake. And I don't want to pause the game whilst I do it, because that would give away information, so I usually proceed into the next phase and let play continue whilst I work it out, which leads to an awkward thing with people needlessly making decisions or actions when in fact the game is over.

And is a mafia majority always a guaranteed win for mafia if play continued? If the mod didn't end the game; the mafia would assume there is a vengeful townie/supersaint/vigilante remaining and play cautiously, conceivably even to the extent of bussing; which could still result in a mafia loss. And even if those roles aren't in the game, town could want to fakeclaim them, with the same effect. I guess bussing could be considered against the mafia wincon in that situation, but is it that different to bussing in any other situation?

So anyway, I find it tempting to go with Patrick's simple majority-wins rule regardless of roles; but as the consensus seems to be in favour of working out the possible role-related scenarios, I will continue to try to do this in future.

And, another Judas/Saulus question.

4) Should a mafia-aligned Judas/Saulus show up as Mafia to a Cop? And/or a Bloodhound?

[Fenchurch]

wait whats a bloodhound role

It's in the Greater Idea deck, and was created because Greater Idea has multiple scum factions: it's an investigative role for all anti-town. Receives result "town" or "not-town".

[Fenchurch]

a) there's only 1 in the deck of 118 possible roles
b) how is it any more overpowered than a Cop in a regular game of mafia?

[Fenchurch]

the anti-town factions should have to work to find the other scum; not just sit back and relax

Again, I feel you could use this argument against any investigative role. And I don't think it's gonna make any of the

scum

relax; they're the ones who're gonna get caught by it. And the town need a bit of recompense for being up against so many scum factions (which weakens all the other investigative roles); and there are still a couple of millers; and the Bloodhound still needs to target the right people; and it's not going to be in the game often.

how big are the normal game sizes for greater idea?

Usually 6 - 7 players on Skype. 9 players on forums, 9 players at the UK meet. And I'd imagine that bigger games were played at the Balto meet, but I'm not sure.

[Fenchurch]

There is a modding app available for iphones: http://www.koryheath.com/werewolf/

It doesn't use NFC though; you all need to take turns inputting night actions to the same phone, so it's not especially quick. I still like it though, it's a decent way to run mod-less small games when you don't have cards handy, and it does have some capacity for semi-open setups. Also, in order to ensure everyone gets a pretend 'night action', villagers have to input who they most think is a werewolf, so you can check accuracy for bragging rights after the game.

The flipside to one of the questions I asked earlier, although I feel pretty safe in assuming this one is a no:

6) Does a currently-town-aligned Judas/Saulus show up as evil to Cop/Bloodhound?

[Fenchurch]

From one of last night's games...

7) Can Mafia Cupid self-target?

Mafia Cupid (Targets player Night 1; all OTHER players who targeted same player become Lovers with target)

[Fenchurch]

Okay. And CES, you really should have mentioned that last night before asking me whether I'd allow it! It would have made my decision easier...

Also,

8) Do players affected by the Mafia Cupid find out that they have become Lovers?

I'd be inclined towards no, because I think we settled on no for the Nymphomaniac's target as well. But there probably isn't a clear right answer here, either.

[Fenchurch]

I can't do it right now, but I imagine it'd be possible to work out by looking at the page edit history...

[Fenchurch]

Yeah, I like Strange Idea.

We also played another variant, Stick or Twist:
1. Take 2 cards,
2. Only look at one of them
-> if you want to keep it, you discard the other without seeing it first
-> if you don't want to keep it, you switch to the other card, but then you're not allowed to change back.
3. Discards are then revealed as usual, as well as which choice you made (whether to Stick or Twist).

It sits somewhere in between Great and Greater Idea (you can make some inferences if somebody Stuck, but if they Twisted then their role is essentially random); it might not be a total classic but I like it anyway for the variety.

[Fenchurch]

AVox wants to popularise a variant called Poor Idea.

It works like this: if you have begun playing a game of Greater Idea, just before night 0 begins (once everyone has selected which role they want to keep), any player can shout out 'POOR IDEA!' and then everyone is forced to switch and take the role they were about to discard instead.

I'm not sure I like it but I think it's probably healthy that it exists.