Balto the Invitational - Game Over

[Triforce]

Hey guys. Preeetty town here.

[Triforce]

Vote: MattP

No we're confirmed town.

[Triforce]

Brb@beach.

[Triforce]

WASSUP BISCOCHOS WE HAVE RETURNED FROM THE BEACH WITH AWESOME SUNBURNS (seriously holy shit we are all in significant pain it's awful)

Anywho, after reading all 12 goddamn pages of this thread, I am going to
VOTE: Reck

Trollie is also on the SCUMMALICIOUS list but I don't know how many votes are on him right now and can't be fucked to count, and to want to accidentally hammer or similarly dumb shit.


Seriously Reck's "case" on Frequency is possibly the shittiest thing I have ever seen in a mafia game. It feels like a reckscum move, though I couldn't throw you any meta actually demonstrating why it feels that way.


Also, I am ignoring all claims made thus far except for Matt's governor claim (already proven) and Molla's miller claim (cause miller claim) because Day 1 claims are stupid and more likely to be HILARIOUS JOKEZ than anything else.

[Triforce]

Ok no. At least one of Iec/DGB are scum.

[Triforce]

Nope. Amrun is easy pickings and for both fo them to follow Reck onto her after going after him as scum is fucking uberninja levels of creepy and scummy.

[Triforce]

Ok I actually read things and I guess DGB is town. I didn't realize that she meant to vote DGB several pages ago while calling her Reck's scumbuddy.

[Triforce]

Er, vote Amrun. I am bad at words.

[Triforce]

xRECKONERx (3) - ChannelDelibird, Amrun, Cogito Ergo Sum, Triforce
Amrun (3) - Fate, xRECKONERx

Mod: Was this accurate? Or are you just bad at counting? EDIT: Also applies to latest votecount, as pointed out by CDB.

Reck saying CES is bad at mafia is hilarious and is another indicator of ScumReck.
Also I focused on that "one thing that happened on page two" because it is by far the scummiest thing anyone has done thus far. *SHRUG* (also I like the tear-down on our play, solid ad-hom there)

Also want to point out that TownMatt being wrong on D1 seems pretty standard.

\
and that makes reck dumb-scum and not dumb-town because?

town post

Because it feels like a scum post from reck, not a town one. Reck's posting doesn't really veer into "dumb" in my experience. Also, that was not a town post. Not my comment above about ad-hom and how we focused on the scummiest thing that's happened so far.
Also also, your scum-read on Dan is terribad.


CDB why trollie over reck?

[Triforce]

Actually, I don't even need an answer, it's blatant enough. The read I've been pushing hardest is a Trollie scumread, but Singer previously said:

Trollie is also on the SCUMMALICIOUS list but I don't know how many votes are on him right now and can't be fucked to count, and to want to accidentally hammer or similarly dumb shit.

And later said

CDB why trollie over reck?

Which makes NO sense because her prior reasoning for not voting Trollie was that there may be too many votes on him, not because Reck was a better option, so her stance is inconsistent

Her statement about ignoring me because I'm wrong D1 is a logical fallacy in relation to her apparent agenda/reads. It doesn't matter what my read on Trollie is and it doesn't matter if I'm wrong a lot D1, she arrived at her own Trollie scumread, there isn't any causation in that because she thinks I'm wrong a lot Day 1 her D1 read that happens to coincide with mine is now incorrect.

POINT BEING she is either scumbuddies with Trollie and she said it to discredit me, or he could be town and she just was using preknowledge of alignment for towncred forgetting that previously she said Trollie was scummalicious. And if her read on Trollie did change between the two posts she would have tried to maybe stop a 6 person wagon and move it elsewhere without covertly calling my reads shit?

VOTE: Triforce

Triforce scumslipped on read consistency, doesn't matter today what it means in reference to Trollie's alignment

lol

[Triforce]

Glad you liked it

There are just so many things

wrong

with that post, I don't even know where to begin.

So I'll start by asking you what makes you think singer made EITHER of those posts?

[Triforce]

It certainly matters.

One of those posts is a statement by one hydra head stating their belief that Trollie is scummy.
Another post is a statement by that same hydra head inquiring about the motive behind CDB's decision to push one wagon over another (which, contrary to what you seem to want to believe, is NOT an endorsement of TrollieTown).
And the post about MattP being a baddie D1 is not mutually exclusive to sharing a read on Trollie.


You actually managed to make up two logical fallacies and a poor assumption about our hydra's headposting and communcation in an effort to make us look bad. Color me impressed.

[Triforce]

Furthermore, Glork would like to add that both he and singer blatantly disagree with quadz's statement that you're bad D1. Glork remembers Catch-22 Mafia. So there's that, which completely debunks your "NOPE CAN'T AGREE WITH MATTP" argument.

[Triforce]

I've actually read basically all of Triforce as singer, or at least as not-Glork.

Nah this is Glork right now.

Anyway, cooking dinner.

[Triforce]

Glad you liked it

There are just so many things

wrong

with that post, I don't even know where to begin.

So I'll start by asking you what makes you think singer made EITHER of those posts?

How does it matter who made the posts? Do you think this excuses you from responding to Matt's points? Are you claiming hydra dissonance or what?

P-edit: see, an answer of "that's not a comment on Trollietown" is an actual answer. Why not just say that instead of getting so defensive?

P-edit 2: ugh, how does taking back saying Matt is bad in d1 change anything?

How in blue hell did you go from me responding by saying "lol, ur wrong" as "getting so defensive"?

[Triforce]

Matt's claiming congitive dissonance on two occasions where it doesn't exist, misattributed two quotes to singer, and then passed it off as "oh I don't care," and based a vote on the assumption that all three of us think that he's bad and therefore WE CANT SHARE ANY READS WITH HIM AT ANY POINT EXCEPT OH WAIT WE DID AT SOME POINT SO WE MUST BE SCUM.

Like. That actually makes no sense. At all. It's beyond moronic.

It would have been fine if MattP went "oh wait, different people have different perceptions of my play D1," because like I just said, 2/3 of us DON'T believe that MattP is wrong D1. But nope, he actually tried to roll all of this into talking about one hydra head, when that simply

does not apply

. His argument is factually invalid on every level, so yeah, I said there were a ton of things wrong with it and started on one angle.

[Triforce]

heh heh heh
you guys are mad at mafia gamez

buzz buzz buzz

If I had Glork in my hydra I would make him make all the posts.

Yeah, he's using scare tactics, but I don't give a shit? Protip: Glork is good at being scum. Just sift through his posts and grab for the ones by Singer and Quadz

Uh, no? Do you remember ANY of the games we played at the meet? I was pretty terrible as scum. I mean, at least this game isn't face-to-face so there's that, but I'm pretty universally mediocre as scum. Your argument is still factually retarded.

Glork is even better at being town, but he's yet to do that, 's my point.

Glorktown generally doesn't give a fuck D1. TBH I haven't even read most of pages 6-12.

triforce was my 3rd in mind for a vote.

buzz.

[Triforce]

Axxle wagon is bullshit, and Reck/Iece on it are both scum.

Frequency is a bad vote because of the (heh) frequency of his posts. Like, what? One, two posts? I don't care to actually count. And he's new. And he's being prodded. Though, to be fair, when I was a wee noobie and was scum, I'd post early in the game and then disappear too (what the hell am I saying? I still do that.).

Amrun idk about because I always think she's scum.

Though I'm inclined to believe that this Axxle wagon is not all town-sided. Not to say he's not scum (though from like 3 posts I can't really tell). I really feel as though this wagon grew way too quickly on "hey, he's posted a list of reads/thoughts that don't mention the most prominent poster at all and it's in alphabetical order." That's kinda dumb reasoning in my book. Perhaps y'all are seeing way more than I am, but I'm not jumping on that stupid wagon anytime soon.

I'm feeling lazy right now, so that's all I'm doing. Kay? Kay.

this doesn't get lynched. ever

Asskissing, much?

SIDENOTE: I actually *REALLY* want to hear what Brock thinks about Reck at this point.


Also, Iece:
The whole let-me-call-Reck-scum-vote-him-then-unvote-him-then-call-him-town-in-the-same-post thing is ridiculous.
But beyond that, somebody iso him.
Look at his voting history.
Look at how he jumps onto Amrun, Trollie, and Axxle as their wagons are springing up and beyond that makes an effort to fuel wagons (like his comment about "Glork is usually good town)
And look at how he said that lynching Frequency D1 is just poor form (even beyond general affection), but now that Frequency seems to be a chic default/compromise lynch, he's suddenly okay with EVERYONE VOTING HIM.
Look at the wishy-washy and irrelevant fluff posted in Iece's first check-in post on Page 7:

Frequency may be scum but I don't want to lynch Frequency. <3

Gamma please stop being a difficult person it is terrible (#117).

CES is so cute when he has his Nibbler avatar. ]]] (134).

Fate makes me really want to vote him in 144 but I am so proud of my Reck synergy on Amrun that I will not do that.

Trollie could be scum, but I am not emotionally attached to voting Trollie.

Of the ten comments Iece makes, half of them are "Mehhhhhh X, but Y so mehhhhh" or literally irrelevant fluff.
And like I said, one of his votes is like "Mehhhhhhh vote reck but follow him onto Amrun because ~town~"

It's especially apparent that at this point, Iece just wants the Axxle-wagon to go through no matter what, which I'm pretty sure is NOT a sign of Iece-town, but would need to confirm that with meta/history.

Soooooo, Iece, money where your mouth is. You've called Axxle, Triforce, Frequency, and Amrun scum, yet

NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THE AXXLE WAGON, AND YOU CLAIM THAT NOW IS AN IDEAL TIME TO BUS

.

So who do you think is bussing Axxle?

Vote: Iece

after looking at his awful contradictory stance towards Axxle/bussing/his suspicions, we actually like this even MORE than Reck. Once he flips scum, Reck can go next.

[Triforce]

Soooooo, Iece, money where your mouth is. You've called Axxle, Triforce, Frequency, and Amrun scum, yet NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THE AXXLE WAGON, AND YOU CLAIM THAT NOW IS AN IDEAL TIME TO BUS.

Namely, that comment obviously in the context of Grimm's concerns about the speed of the wagon. Other stuff is also flagrantly taken out of context.

You can't argue that the speed of the wagon isn't alarming by saying BUT HE WOULD BE BUSSED, then argue that NOBODY ON HIS WAGON IS SCUM.

That's called cognitive dissonance, and it's a blatant scumtell.


Also, what exactly was "flagrantly taken out of context"? By all means, don't sit around and take half-assed potshots at our argument. If you feel that context makes your terrible voting/posting less scummy, you're more than welcome to try to prove us wrong.

[Triforce]

like 80% serious question- triforce why do all of your posts that don't have the word buzz in them sound angry?

Because buzz.

[Triforce]

Probably because out of fucks to give. If it's going to take Axxle getting mislynched and Iece dying of mysterious causes to win everyone else over, so be it. But if we can avoid these shenanigans, that'd be ideal.

[Triforce]

Probably because out of fucks to give. If it's going to take Axxle getting mislynched and Iece dying of mysterious causes to win everyone else over, so be it. But if we can avoid these shenanigans, that'd be ideal.

I feeel like you're doing what I do sometimes and noticed that a wagon's jumped on some dude for not-amazing reasons but then overlook that there's not actually anything pointing to said dude being town. Cause although I think this is actually pretty decent for Day 1 junk and has the bonus of probably not just being a personality-tell there isn't really SUPER SUBSTANTIAL there, but that plus literally no towntells whatsoever makes it pretty good IMO.

But Nuwen's reason is legitimately retarded, because if Axxle just had time to comment on a few people, going alphabetical down the list would be the exact reason he didn't comment on Reck yet.
What exactly makes you think that this wagon is "pretty decent"? What about Axxle's posting convinces you that this goes beyond personality and makes Axxle more likely to be scum than the average player?

Also, burden of proof becuase "literally no towntells" but y'know.

[Triforce]

EBWOP: Also, more Iece horseshit that nobody will actually read incoming but we got sidetracked because what the fuck gamma.

[Triforce]

What are you talking about? Brock's concerns are that the wagon is super fast because scum are on it (To quote Brock directly: "I'm inclined to believe that this Axxle wagon is not all town-sided... I really feel as though this wagon grew way too quickly on [dumb reasoning]"). For you to say that his concern is invalid and explicitly say that this is an ideal time for Axxle to be bussed translates to "Grimm, you are wrong because there are scum on Axxle's wagon even though he is scum."

Can you please explain how this is not the case?

The issue we have is that you're calling Axxle scum, trying to convince Brock to join the wagon because despite his concerns, this is "ideal" time to Bus, but all of your other concrete suspicions are not on his wagon. You're actually arguing two mutually exclusive points here.

And now that we finally called you out on this, you're falling back on "maybe Gamma" to try to cover up for your cognitive dissonance.

And nah, I have no ambition to make an obnoxious wallpost; your post kinda speaks for itself.

Nice copout. This sentence might as well read "I'm choosing not to respond to you because you're right."

But why they would pick ME of all people is a little funky IMO.

Beacuse you didn't vote Amrun until two people had voted for her and two other people had called her scum.
You didn't jump onto Trollie until four other people were voting for him.
You didn't go back to Amrun until Trollie momentum had waned (BBMolla's unvote) and Amrun picked up steam again (DGB's vote).
You didn't comment on us until Matt's postsplosion and Trollie's following him onto us and Amrun questioning us.
And you didn't jump onto Axxle until Nuwen's awful reasoning was followed by two equally awful votes.

We feel like all you've done is tried to push bad wagons, so it's not just this most recent wagon/busing/suspects thing. Your posts have actively made us collectively cringe, and that's why we're bringing this to light.

[Triforce]

I do not want the Axxle wagon to derail before Axxle returns.

Welp. Better not let the accused defend himself.

[Triforce]

Another example of lolTriforce: I voted Amrun in my very first post, but was criticized for the implied-late timing of my vote for her.

I mean, you could have voted Frequency, or Gamma, or Fate. But you chose to vote the person who had BY FAR the most attention on them.

What was that you said about ignoring context?

[Triforce]

Parama is not in this game...?

Pedit: Whoa, people seriously think I'm scummy? This is a legitimate shock to me. I think I'm totally obvtown. Like, I've been really pleased by how naturally this game has felt for me.

I mean N = 2 but.

So, you just acknowledged that Nuwen and we actually seriously think you're scum.

Which implies that we're legitimately hunting for scum.

Which implies that we are town.

Yet you think that we're scum with Axxle.



Yay more cognitive dissonance.

[Triforce]

Different head here

Just want to point out that Reck making fun of an unpopular player (in this case, us) feels very much like a ReckScum thing to do, whereas ReckTown would make actual posts about the content said player has provided.

[Triforce]

I do not want the Axxle wagon to derail before Axxle returns.

Welp. Better not let the accused defend himself.

More like "be sure the accused is made to defend himself."

Yeah, ignore that--kind of got carried away and misread that, but you're right.

[Triforce]

Triforce posts are so full of misinformation and misrepping that it would take a lifetime to actually sift through and explain to you why you're so alarmingly wrong in most everything you say

so instead I choose to spend five seconds making fun of you

[Triforce]

I have a town read on Grimm, but the way reck said it struck me as off -- this could be a tone/Internet thing, though, not sure.

You posted this, and you're voting Reck, so I assumed the implication was that Reck was scum with Grimm.

If it was not your intent, please make your intent more clear. <3

My understanding is that she was basically agreeing with us that the way Reck called Grimm town is scum-kissing-obvtown's-ass.

[Triforce]

Amrun, please stop trying to build a scumteam around your mistaken impression that reck is scum.

@amrun- not strong enough to care about them right now. don't feel like specifying which way they're leaning.

why do you ask?

You know, in hindsight this really bothers me. How can I have a "mistaken impression" that someone else is scum if I am scum?

The same way we can "seriously believe" that Iece is scum, even though we are apparently scum.

YEP. Iece has now passively admitted that two of his claimed "scumreads" have legitimate suspicions.

[Triforce]

...

wat.

[Triforce]

categorically-misleading language usage.

Can you explain what language you are referring to?

[Triforce]

I have a town read on Grimm, but the way reck said it struck me as off -- this could be a tone/Internet thing, though, not sure.

You posted this, and you're voting Reck, so I assumed the implication was that Reck was scum with Grimm.

If it was not your intent, please make your intent more clear. <3

My understanding is that she was basically agreeing with us that the way Reck called Grimm town is scum-kissing-obvtown's-ass.

I'm going to just hope/assume that a different head posted this and you aren't sharing your posts with one another?

This seems like a complete non-sequitur. You're going to have to spell this out a little more before we can respond.

Now that we've established that Amrun's intent was unclear, and Iec interpreted her intent differently than we did, how were we being "accomodating" to Amrun?

[Triforce]

Those are two independent thoughts, btw.

[Triforce]

We literally just had a 20 minute argument about this.

Say this out loud, emphasizing the bold: "

I

have a town read on Grimm, but the way

Reck

said it struck me as off."

[Triforce]

Oh.

"I have a town read on Grimm and it is lovely to say that Grimm is town due to its accuracy; however, Reck proclaimed this true fact in a suspicious fashion, and it was NOT lovely."

OK.

Point of clarification: are you being sarcastic or are you acknowledging that we both had valid interpretations of her post?

[Triforce]

I'm going through the thread now. I assume a claim is wanted: I'm Chamber's Face Looking Exactly the Same Upside Down, Vanilla Townie.

PEdit: I wasn't checking the thread because I'm at work and there's a lot of pages. I think I mentioned I was away for most of yesterday in my last post.

VT claim + no real effort to defend himself is not an AxxleScum claim. This is very clearly coming from town.

You folks can start your white knighting arguments now.

[Triforce]

1) Triforce STILL HASNT REFUTED MY PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE SCUMSLIP ON THEM

What alleged scumslip are you talking about? Do you mean the thing where you claimed that because someone in the hydra called you wrong D1 that we can't agree with any of your reads at any point? Because we already explained how that argument is beyond terrible.

So if you're actually still clinging to that nonsense, you really need to step up your game. We already responded to it. There was like a two page discussion about it and then you randomly dropped it.

[Triforce]

Look at THOSE POSTS and go ahead and refute my point without calling me FACTUALLY RETARDED

When you apply context, the comment about you being wrong applied specifically to your ReckTown read. Quadz had moved on from Trollie and was going after Reck at that point. His comment about you being wrong was a completely separate train of thought from his earlier suspicion of Trollie.

[Triforce]

At this point, Matt, you're talking to all of us.

Glork made the mistake of trying to defend Quadz without understanding what Quadz had said. Glork had even posted at the time that he hadn't read most of Pages 6-12. That was a mistake.

With Quadz's parents visiting over the weekend and all of us having different works chedules, the Triforce never really had an opportunity to sit down together and discuss the game until this afternoon, when we all realized we agreed that Iece is scum. That's when the posts stopped being "I, him, her" and started being "us." At that point we were focused on how each of us felt Iece was scum and decided to post about it, and the earlier 'scumslip' discussion was forgotten.

[Triforce]

Trollie should l2r.

[Triforce]

A quick look at the activity overview shows that Frequency says he's on V/LA until July 10th, so unless Matt/Trollie say otherwise, we don't need to wait another 24 hours?

[Triforce]

Vote: xRECKONERx

[Triforce]

VOTE: CES

Why?

why are you defending the Axxle lynch so hard?

I was under the impression that that wagon was more or less purely the result of town (as in all town) players coalescing around a lynch. However I doubt its purity now.

Considering you doubt its purity, why are you voting for someone off the wagon? Who

on

the wagon do you think might have been scum behind the mislynch?




Nuwen, in light of Axxle's flip, what do you think of the reasoning you used to accuse him and the subequent flashwagon on him? Who are the towns who legitimately agreed with you, and who was jumping on the opportunity for an easy mislynch?

[Triforce]

lolomgus

[Triforce]

lolomgus

Amrun...who's the only person voting for someone in response to being voted? (hint: not you)

[Triforce]

CUZ WHOLEY FUCK RWCK DON'T EVEN CARE RECKS NOT ECENTRYING

[Triforce]

Well Reck is scum. So that's hardly surprising. But if you were calling him on omgus, I will have to disagree since we were cross voting most of yesterday as well.

You should probably take another look at who Reck is voting for and stop being so stupidly egocentric.

^Can someone read that guy for me

Preeeeeeeetty sure Gamma's town.

Actually, it looks like xRECKONERx is calling you town. Scum don't want people to BE scum, just look like scum.

Hi welcome, please stop answering questions for your scumbuddy. Reck is a big boy. He can answer for himself. Also, your jump onto the AD wagon is super terrible.

CES, what's your read on Beethoven?

[Triforce]

No, but I think the reason she is even thinking about it is because she was, and I think the reason you're defending her is you're her buddy.

Plz turn this into English

@reck: ok I buy that.

She was scum on the wagon, thought to herself "Oh I should try to look town by 'finding the scum on wagon'." She then provides 3 possibilities for mislynches.

"No, but I think the reason she is even thinking about [scum on the wagon] is because she was [scum on the wagon], and I think the reason you're defending her is you're her buddy."

Maaaybe Nuwen was thinking about who might be scum on the wagon because we, you know...asked her?

[Triforce]

Not gunna lie, we've been playing ARAMs all day and only sort of been paying attention to this game today. We'll probably have actual thoughts tomorrow.

[Triforce]

Ugh. People should ask us questions we can look up and comment on. We've been fairly apathetic to this for the past few days so maybe this'll spark some inspiration/conversation.

[Triforce]

Ok a couple of things:

Re: Gamma...Amrun-Town: she has a demanding, self-absorbed nature (uh, I guess specifically posts 167, 352, +Iece interaction, etc) that indicates that she's not even considering other people, which is something scum inherantly do--she's focused on what she thinks is important as opposed to a typical scum nature of "let's make sure we leave our options open while pushing our agenda."
Amrun-Scum: the way she went V/LA but still contributed while not really contributing anything isn't exactly pro-town? This is a bit pointless because we feel as though anything that could be scummy from just anyone, is town from her because it's Amrun (see: Weather Mafia II and her Team Mafia game for our references to this behavior)

Re: Beethoven...we're not interested in answering that question at this time.

Re: KK's reads...ironic? Surprisingly enough we agree with Reck's response.

There are a few people worth lynching today, but no one really stands out anymore. Taking a better look at just today after ~plans~.

unvote

[Triforce]

WE WERE ALL WORKING/VOLUNTEERING SORRY

But while I'm here:

@Also...Reck, can you give you opinion on Zdenek, please?

@Nuwen...please explain your Iecerant scum-read?

@Zdenek...what about our case on Iecerint do you like?

@Gamma...do you realize that we're not "refusing" to see Amrun as town? We followed along with your semi-bullshit leading questions because we're not stubborn enough to think we're infallible (ok 2/3 of us aren't ), and had we asked you to do the same thing on anyone you read as town because of meta, you would had an equally hard time trying to convince yourself differently. It's bullshit to say "wow I can't believe they

tried

to see this person as scum [because I asked them to] and then didn't."

@BBmolla...surely you have other options/scum reads?

Also, we have a post we meant to post yesterday, so that should be up when it's not on a different account.

[Triforce]

EBWOP from before: "we're not 'refusing' to see Amrun as

scum

*" not town.

We personally went through all of her posts, but wasn't about to make a PBPA from both a town and scum-Amrun perspective. I'm not familiar with Amrun scum at all, so why would I think specifically "oh this is obviously Amrun-scum." Again, we referenced two games that we've been basing our experiences off of. Now, if you'd've asked us to specifically

compare

an Amrun-scum game to her play in this one, we can understand that being a much more realistic request.

You also admit that you're convinced of your Reck-read based off of how he normally plays as the opposite alignment of how you read him now. Again, none of us can think of a single Amrun-scum game (without doing research of past games), but Glork and singer can pull at least two games of paralleled Amrun-town play off the top of our heads.

What was the

purpose

of seeing if we could disagree with our natural read? Were you hoping to change our minds through this?

Another point: what would be our motivation for defending Amrun as scum?

[Triforce]

Oh yeah, Zdenek, we haven't voted again because we were going to review the beginning of D2 first and just really haven't had time, yet.

The reason we called BBmolla out for not voting is because he's all over the place and not the kind of person to not place a vote. He made one "ok maybe you're town, unvote" post, with no follow-up. His reasoning makes sense from a generic town perspective, but we would've expected at least a little pressure on some of his "who knows" reads.

[Triforce]

That's a really good pick up on contradiction Re: Nuwen. I didn't catch that.

I'd like to see KK's response to that.

We would, as well. We have ~thoughts~.

[Triforce]

We're really not concerned with looking town.

[Triforce]

WE WERE ALL WORKING/VOLUNTEERING SORRY

But while I'm here:

@Also...Reck, can you give you opinion on Zdenek, please?:

Uhhh he's town. He replaced Grimm. Fucking Umbrage could join in that spot and I would not lynch it

Hey, Triforce, you've got your answer. Do you want to actually continue this line of thought, or was it just bullshit fluff panderquestioning

What do you expect us to say..."K THX" or "CONGRATS FOR ANSWERING THE EASIEST QUESTION EVER"? Knowing whose slot he replaced into, do you legitimately think we were just asking for the sake of asking? Or was this just bullshit fluff panderquestioning

I grudgingly barely accept that townies sometimes fakeclaim. But ActionDan claimed something to keep TheTrollie from being lynched. People like xRECKONERx start strategizing along the lines of "Hey, maybe we should lynch TheTrollie to test this claim", then ActionDan immediately bails on the claim. Plus the fact that it's a third party claim is total scum red flag.

I believe this is town KK.

What makes it more likely to come from town-KK than scum-KK? Why couldn't scum just as easily point out how sketchy that could've been? (not entirely positive if he was the first person to point that out and not gunna check, so just assuming he was)

Preview Edit:
Ugh.

[Triforce]

Oh yeah, willing to lynch Dan, BBmolla, Nuwen, Reck, or Beethoven today.

Oh yeah, Nuwen, what exactly makes Fate useful, again?

[Triforce]

Beep boop.

vooooote: ActionDan

There is much to learn from this lynch, and with two and a half days left til deadline, I'm not interested in anything less.

[Triforce]

Oh yeah, willing to lynch Dan

, BBmolla, Nuwen, Reck, or Beethoven today.

Oh yeah, Nuwen, what exactly makes Fate useful, again?

Sorry, what was that?

My b. Day off. Point still stands.

[Triforce]

Honestly? The only flag is his fake claim, which he did plenty of times F2F, but the whole back and forth with it, and coming back to KK's credibility response is bullshit (like trying to make an excuse to trollolol FAKECLAIMS).

I guess three and a half days isn't as big of a deal as two and a half (4 days minus 12 hours is obviously 2.5 days), but the whole town's been fucking around just like D1. Where are the flashwagons, where's the uniformity? We have people like you, Nuwen, Matt, etc who try and use "reason" to push something, but then you and Nuwen didn't even push that hard on us/Iece and Matt's been gone to continue pushing Trollie. We honestly keep forgetting CES is in the game which from prior experience almost makes me want to lynch him off of policy. Fate's being useless Fate (YES RECK HE'S MORE USELESS THAN WE ARE GET OVER IT), CDB's preeetty town but again hasn't been around.

I dunno WORDS.

I guess Trollie would be another good information lynch, but we feel like he's more town than Dan, so...

Aaaaand talk about wasting votes. Would be willing to flashwagon Reck.

[Triforce]

Like we believed it?

FFs, we meant the following responses to it. Like we said, it's not the fake claim itself ("which [you] do plenty of times F2F"] it was what happened

after

, and most recently your exchange with KK.

[Triforce]

Nuwen why aren't you voting right now?

[Triforce]

it was what happened after, and most recently your exchange with KK.

go into some detail. You're voting one of the 2 main wagons and the day is creeping to a close, I'm pretty sure you can do better than this.

Also this. Maybe. Most of it is gut and how /off things feel. Much like our town read on Amrun. Much of it is gut and how self-centered she feels. >_>

CES is a man of few words and now that Nuwen brought to our attention how little he's been a part of the game, we're going to go back and poke at that a bit more.

CES, if not Trollie, then who? Why?

[Triforce]

THIS IS SINGER AND I REALLY JUST NEED THIS DAY TO END PLEASE.

I'll literally flash-wagon anyone at this point. No I didn't get permission to post this. No I don't give a fuck. But seriously, y'all are kidding yourselves if you don't think at LEAST one of our top five lynch-options are worth lynching up to and not including gaining SHIT TONS of information.

You are also kidding yourselves if you think we're being the only pompous, arrogant, self-preserving asses in this game, so stfu.
Iec, if you want to go for Nuwen, fuck yeah because she and Reck are by far our biggest scum reads.
If we need to lynch Trollie, I guess we should've put him on our list for ~information~ purposes but not cuz scum.
If Nuwen could finally commit to a vote+the other four (five?) of you who are voting people whose wagons won't be taking off any time soon, that would be GREAT.

Seriously.

Also

Setting up a second mislynch based on a coming mislynch is pretty standard scumplay, too.

Who is doing this and to whom?

[Triforce]

Because no town has ever used a flip to confirm their reads or show their hand.

OH WAIT.

I guess what you're saying totally makes sense on the basis that we said his town flip meant you were scum.

OH WAIT.

Preview Edit:
Oh, ffs.

unvote; vote: TheTrollie

[Triforce]

WRONG

Re: KK...No, he just answered the way we would've expected him to as town?

Re: Nuwen...actually, I just ISOed ourselves because I was curious and you reminded me that Nuwen never answered our question about why she thought Iece was scum (he's not, stop that). Nuwen?

Re: CES...singer's played exactly one game she can recall where CES called out two/three scum upon entering the game in his first post. Glork says his play so far is fairly typical of either alignment, so why not provoke someone into playing a game when you can trust they can either trust they'll find scum, or you can scum-hunt them more easily?

Again, ISO us and look at our two top scum reads (ignore Iec).

Preeetty obvious what our preferences are, but without a trollolol flashwagon D1, this town is derping, so.

[Triforce]

VOTE: NUWEN

LET'S DO THIS

FUCK

YEAH

[Triforce]

fine make me do horseshit when i'm supposed to be working

'antaganostic' read is garbage because they were faking anger for no reason day 1. they faked a bunch of frustration that had no actual reason for existing and got real 'irritated' at meaningless horseshit because glork faking enough confidence and balls as scum is what he thinks is what will look like his town game and then suddenly all of their play changes day 2 and instead of faking anger because they REALIZED it was uneccessary and off for them they spend the entirety of day 2 poking around nuwen and doing godamn nothing until OH SHIZ DEADLINE BETTER VOTE NOW AND RUSH OTHER PEOPLE TO VOTE TOO

garbage garbage garbage garbage GARBAGE

[Triforce]

Gamma, you make it seem like we spend the whole day focusing on Nuwen but then voting someone else (false), and are overlooking the fact that we were literally only going to vote for whoever had the most votes of the people we were willing to lynch. It's simple math. Nuwen-0 votes, Dan=5 (4?). Voting us right now is dumb and a waste of your vote. Be smarter.

And it should be preeetty obvious why our play-style changed and who's been driving most of our posts because of it. Singer thought she could trust quadz and Glork to post independently from her, but D1 happened and that was obviously not the case.

It's quadz birthday, which is unfortunate because we're not really planning on being around much before deadline, but if Fate can't argue for Nuwen for us then we'll try to be around to switch our vote back to Dan.

Preview Edit:
Not doing anything with Reck/Fate until Trollie can clear shit up because they're both being, well...who they are.

Preview Edit again:
Oh that was predictable.

[Triforce]

Here, let me pull a Glork and antagonize the whole fucking game so we can get a flashwagon on us and mislynched already. Then we don't have to deal with this horseshit and Nuwen can get away with "I was trying to play a little bit scummy but not scummy enough because one-shot preemptive claim trololol" BULLSHIT.

RECK HOW CAN YOU THINK GAMMA IS SCUM AND VOTE FOR US WITH GAMMA DO YOU REALLY THINK HE'D SPEND THE WHOLE DAY INDEPENDENTLY WAFFLETUNNLING ON US WHAT THE FUCK.

Preview Edit:
I dunno, that's what Glork said. We haven't really been paying much attention. Does he have access to your QT?

[Triforce]

Like, that really doesn't make any sense unless you actually think this is some clever Gamma-"bussing."

[Triforce]

Ugh, this game.

Preview Edit:
lol, Gamma.

Also, WHAT THE SHIT ARE PEOPLE STARTING NEW WAGONS FOR.

[Triforce]

Triforce has expressed an interest to flash wagon me several times. CES has expressed suspicion of me. Nuwen is going to try and bullshit her way through a last minute lynch on me. Don't do it, because I'm actually town.

This. Even though you're in our top five, Nuwen's vote has scumscumscum written all over it. There is literally no town motivation in trying to start new shit 26 (28?) hours from deadline.

[Triforce]

Fate is pretty adamant that Nuwen is scum.
You trust Fate's read more than anyone else.
You want to leave Nuwen alive.


Can you please reconcile these three statements, Amrun?

[Triforce]

"For tonight" is the biggest pile of bullshit. It lets Nuwen come up with a complete role, fake a result, get another towns person lynched, and run us around for another day. She's not long for this world at this point.

Are we really so bad that we let Nuwen get away with woooololooo pseudo kinda limited power claim with no role name that NOBODY has even bothered to ask for. Remind me next time I'm scum to just bullshit some arbitrary claim and go "I have a strategic plan, give me more time!" because apparently that works nowadays.


Nuwen, what's your role name?

[Triforce]

BECAUSE YOU'RE ASSUMING SHE'S ACTUALLY TOWN AND NOT SOME SCUM PR TRYING TO BUY HERSELF A NIGHT.

THANK YOU. SOMEONE ELSE HAS A BRAIN.

Nuwen is not long for this world. Her play at this point is to buy time and be a distraction. We get a name from her, we get flavor, and we decide today if she's scum or not.

When did "lynch sketchy claims" become a bad thing? There is NOTHINF redeeming about Nuwen's claim except OHGAWDPOWERROLE.

[Triforce]

woooololooo pseudo kinda limited power claim with no role name that NOBODY has even bothered to ask for.

I've asked 2 times now actually. Thanks. You arent bussing Nuwen, are you?

Of course. Because two scum buddies both claiming investigative power will NEVER GO HORRIBLY WRONG.

Triforce breadcrumbs info role.
Nuwen claims info role with no name, admits to being scummy, and begs for one more night.
Triforce REALLY WANTS NUWEN DEAD.
Conclusion? THEY MUST BE SCUMBUDDIES.
Are you drunk?

We will concede that you have asked for a name, although second time was missed because ninja post. That doesn't make the original lack of a name claim any less egregious.


PEDIT
Also, did anybody know of Mina or Faraday playing Shadow Hunters? Did anybody send in Shadow Hunters as a significant idea for use in the invitational? Because the only time I saw SH being played, they weren't there, and I don't think of one random game out of many as being role-worthy

[Triforce]

EBWOP: ignore the "did anyone send it in" thing because that could cross a no-outside-communications line.

But srsly. Why Shadow Hunters over any other game we played? And why a Hermit card from that game?

[Triforce]

Give me a list of the scummy things done by Nuwen.

WELL YOU ADMITTED TO BEHAVING SCUMMY, SO WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT FOR US?

[Triforce]

How is the balls to the walls case on Axxle laying low? Even after his behavior was adequately explained by ~alphabetical list~ you were still vocal about lynching him.

This honestly doesn't add up.

[Triforce]

WAIT A MINUTE


wait a minute wait a minute


SINGER

You and I hydraed a game of Shadow Hunters where Faraday was David or some shit and Mina was on our team!! We won together!

wtf

lol, oh yeah.

Preview Edit:
Glork made it with me only kind of paying attention. Though to be honest, I asked him to ask that because I forgot about SH altogether, and didn't remember anyone playing it (because I didn't remember playing it myself).

Another aside:
Glork and I feel like if Nuwen was town her wagon would've grown more quickly because scum could've easily been like "ok, we can lynch

this

investigative role, and when they flip town we can lynch the OTHER investigative role."

[Triforce]

Also, singer read shrug-worthy as scummy, MY B.

Buuut that's essentially what it was. It feels like she's excusing her less-than-ideal play with this shitty PR claim.

Brb Glork's making a post.

[Triforce]

lalalalalalala not counterclaiming a goddamned thing

Nuwen is scum on her own merits and you morons shouldn't need a counterclaim to lynch her.

[Triforce]

Yeah Reck, because flippant inflammatory trolling is a hallmark of Quadzscum. Or Singerscum. Or Glorkscum.

Oh, wait.



(But in all reality, "counterclaiming" is impossible / doesn't accomplish anything. What's to say ther aren't TWO limited investigative roles in the setup? We can't definitively say that Nuwen is scum

because of our role

. We can definitively say that Nuwen is scum.)

[Triforce]

CES, it makes more sense as coming from scum than coming from town, imo, though it doesn't make much sense as either. Care to enlighten me?

Okay, so.

Fake-forgetting as Town makes this much sense:
I

Fake-forgetting as Scum makes this much sense:
III

ACTUALLY forgetting as either alignment makes this much sense:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


So why are you focusing on "we're more likely to fake-forget as scum" when singer OBVIOUSLY JUST LEGIT FORGOT?

[Triforce]

Because Triforce questioned the validity of Nuwen's flavorclaim by questioning if Mina and Faraday ever played Shadow Hunters at the meet, despite having played with them.

But the latter part is probably not relevant -- I was just eating paranoia flakes for a little bit. The former part is still scummy.

....which we COMPLETELY DROPPED after singer realized we were wrong. It was something that could have helped when it was relevant, but DIDN'T MATTER when it stopped being relevant.

[Triforce]

.....which is why we originally asked if people had submitted that but rescinded it because that's probably breaking the rules.

[Triforce]

Like, everything you're trying to argue we MANUFACTURED FOR SUSPICIONS is stuff that:
A) would be FUCKING MORONIC TO TRY TO MANUFACTURE IF WE WERE SCUM (or town); and
B) we were trying to do to legit find out if there was cause to disbelieve the claim. It wasn't "THIS PERSON MUST BE CONDEMNED" but more of a "did people really think this was significant enough to turn into a role?"

[Triforce]

Ugh, we're seriously out of fucks to give.

Either people are going to vote us or not, but we have nothing to hide and we're essentially vanilla now and Iece is town, etc.

[Triforce]

Hey guys. Preeetty town here.

The fact that singer even trusted anyone other than her to post in this game at all (yes, even quadz who apparently couldn't get his shit together anyway) should tell you how town she is like wholey fuck.

[Triforce]

*shrug* We're town. Scum can keep begging for a claim but we'll never give it to them. They'll be force to commit to a vote before they'll get any information from us.

Gamme, Iece, Fate, molla, Armun (seriously as much of a narcissistic fuck as she is), probs CES and Matt (worth testing his ability to read Trollie), are all town.

Beethoven, Reck, Nuwen, Dan can all get deathdeathdeath.

Just lynch us and be done with it. Finally looking forward to getting the dead QT and washing our hands of this retarded town shiftest you let it turn into that let people like us not want anything to do with NO I'M RIGHT NO I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG BUT I'M RIGHT. We're a liability. Whatever. We're big enough to admit that. We tried to push Dan and/or Trollie when they were liabilities FOR TWO FUCKING DAYS IN A ROW but scum got what they wanted and another mislynch because at this point there's not really another option.

Gamma, time to put your money where your mouth is.

[Triforce]

But seriously, definitely regretting protecting Amrun now because that's 50% of what started Gamma's fuckshitretardedmessofaread, and she's way more useless than we could've been.

[Triforce]

Or X% we don't really give a fuck. Poor choices. Amrun, forgive us if you're scum because wow you're so bad as either alignment that we're willing to defend your shitty play as being town.

Preview Edit:

Gamma...we're getting lynched. Do you really expect anything else to happen at this point with like 6 people being solo votes on someone and now being the leading wagon after Fate tried to start stupid shit? We're telling you to put your money where your mouth is because we already know you're wrong.

[Triforce]

Like, I want to speed this up so badly but quadz won't let me vote ourselves because OMGANTITOWN.

I guess scum have to be forced to vote us now.

BUT SERIOUSLY DON'T OVERLOOK NK ANALYSIS BECAUSE QUADZ AND RECK SPECIFICALLY HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW IT MATTERS AND YET RECK NEVER ONCE VOTED AD TODAY SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND HOW HE KEPT HOPPING SHIT AND HOW FUCKING SCUMMY HE AND NUWEN HAVE FUCKING BEEN AND YOU'RE ONLY FUCKING LUCKY WE STOPPED GIVING A SHIT AND GLORK'S THE KIND OF PERSON WHO LIKES TO TROLOLOLL PEOPLE FOR THE LULZ BECAUSE THIS GAVE YOU ANOTHER FUCKING DAY YOU DUMB FUCK TOWN.

[Triforce]

Amrun, I don't give a shit what you have to say because I'm just letting you know how wrong you are and I guess you can't seem to handle that. We go out of our way to defend your "play" and you seem to think it's ok to prove how wrong we were in doing so, SOOOOO...

Edit:
Fine

vote: ActionDan

Going back to what we said before. Dan or us at this point.

Preview Edit:
AD...not bringing up any NK analysis and then never tried to follow through with so apparently his vote was empty and meaningless?

[Triforce]

ugh

[Triforce]

this is why I hate playing in invitationals with people who like controlling the game and then being wrong

[Triforce]

edit: tried playing in it with a hydra and clearly that backfired but looking forward to it not mattering anymore.

[Triforce]

BUT SERIOUSLY DON'T OVERLOOK NK ANALYSIS BECAUSE QUADZ AND RECK SPECIFICALLY HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW IT MATTERS AND YET RECK NEVER ONCE VOTED AD TODAY

lol you're dumb as shit

says you

denying it?

[Triforce]

beethoven did you ever see singer play as scum?

because she despises it. and she does get very emotional and frustrated while playing as scum.

also when you're wrong?

see ever other game I've been town in where you've been wrong about me as town

KTHX

[Triforce]

why

why did you vote dan

why are you voting dan now

[Triforce]

Vote ActionDan

i'd rather have a handicapped townie than a competent scumbag

[Triforce]

beethoven did you ever see singer play as scum?

because she despises it. and she does get very emotional and frustrated while playing as scum.

also when you're wrong?

see ever other game I've been town in where you've been wrong about me as town

KTHX

the most recent one I remember was Mafia Behind the Maiden where I'm pretty sure I read you correctly most of the game but got pretty frustrated with you not actually trying for a ton of it? I don't actually remember us playing in many games together aside from that and the one forever ago I was scum in but I'm probably forgetting one, I can take a look.

fun game

also didn't mean you read me wrong meant that I get more mad when you read me incorrectly than when I get "caught" as scum. in fact I feel like I'm more lackadaisical and carefree as scum than I am as town because I'm more embarrassed that people think I'm bad enough to lynch as town

I forgot about that game but I feel like I remember the same thing happening in that one as here.

Preview Edit:
lol@Amrun admitting she's a weaker link of the town.

[Triforce]

No shit she's town and it's making me mad that Gamma tried to fabricate a retarded case on us based on us thinking she's town because "omg we can't see her as scum"?

Bullfuckingshit.

Anyway, going to bed. Washing hands. Sure we'll find out if we're lynched soon enough. Happy Birthday to quadz.

[Triforce]

Look at all dem justifications.

Things that made singer mad:
1. Thinking she could trust quadz to post on his own but being very wrong.
2. Glork posting something different which started a shit feat of WAIT CONTRADICTIONS
3. Trying to fix it the wrong way and coming to a better, more cohesive working unit.
4. Soft-claiming which might draw night kills but people being dumb enough to call it out (probably scum because town have literally no reason to do that.
5. Gamma getting his panties in a bunch because we didn't agree with him on Amrun. Like. I literally cannot even fathom how much that doesn't make sense and it's making me angry now.
6. Town voting 8 different people less than 48-hours from the deadline (people obvious scum wouldn't have put themselves in the limelight when it was so easy to allow this shitstorm to happen but WHAT DO I KNOW AS TOWN).
7. Getting so apathetic towards people's bullshit and absence in this game an just wanting to anti-town troll the fuck around because there's been nothing better to do.
8. Ruining quadz birthday lat night because singer raged too much at the fickleness of this game.
9. Not even wanting to see the dead QT to find out we may be wrong and scum is just laughing in our face over this snowball of a clusterfuck.

We're vanilla. GG. No Re.

[Triforce]

No unvotes. Stahp. Why is this happening?

Half counterclaims maybe I'm -- vanilla, oh but STIL NO FLAVORCLAIM?

No way.


Did DGB teach you guys nothing? Piecemeal claims are SCUM.

Uh, obviously not.

Why do you need a flavor claim when we claimed fucking vanilla thinking we were going to get lynched anyway...

Geez, calm your tits, woman.

We're kanyeknowsbest (wtf?)
something about Matt/Trollie's friend who tried to trick you into thinking she was kanye (again, wtf?)

SHRUG.

There, scum literally have all the information they could've possibly wanted/needed from us. Happy?

Preview Edit:
CDB, why are you apologizing for us being town but still saying we should be lynched. There is exactly one correct answer.

[Triforce]

Also, not really sure why Dan hasn't been pressured into full-claiming like we were. Not saying we think he should (because full claims are shit right now), but what was Gamma saying about us being hypocritical and then asking us for a full claim while taking Dan's word for it?

[Triforce]

Unless he did and we missed it but can't be fucked to go and look back now.

[Triforce]

Gamma, huh?

Preview Edit:
oh ffs, Fate.

[Triforce]

triforce you keep deliberately misrepresenting people's posts. there is an if in that sentence for a reason.

Yeah but ANYBODY can misinterpret things and react poorly, not just scum. Have you been reading my posts at all Gamma?

there's a pretty clear difference between misreading posts and deliberately taking out words and then pretending that poking at the players making the statement is scumhunting.

WE DON'T THINK YOU'RE SCUM.

WE WERE POINTING OUT THAT IT'S STUPID TO CALL US OUT FOR BEING "HYPOCRITICAL" ETC.

Like, you're so fucking confirmation biased right now we can't even handle it. At least we can admit our conf. bias with Amrun.

[Triforce]

does anyone even have a townread on him and why?

Glork thought they were town because he thought Beethoven was trying to pressure us to see if we'd claim cop in case they had a counter-claim, but my first instinct was that they were just calling us out on it because they're scum and if they got lynched wanted to out a PR for their scumbuddies.

That's about as far as we got.

Preview Edit:
[snip]

Preview Edit:
Not going to argue with Gamma anymore because that's what got us into this mess in the first place. Too jaded to even THINK that we could possibly be town.

Could actually board a Nuwen-town train based off of that. It was way too easy to just lynch us.

[Triforce]

YES

OUR ALMOST FLASH WAGON THAT MIGHT STILL TURN INTO OUR LYNCH ANYWAY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN IN VEIN (VAIN?) BECAUSE WE GOT AT LEAST ONE OTHER TOWN READ OUT OF IT

[Triforce]

TriForce please be productive and vote a viable counterwagon, I'm doing my best to save you and I want to do it by lynching scum not Action Dan

I can substitute Beethoven for Nuwen based on the last three pages. Probably still gunna get lynched anyway, but whatever.

vote: Beethoven

[Triforce]

Man, the problem with these games is that too many people can read other people better than others and then no one can agree with those reads.

asdkljbvgalskdjfb

[Triforce]

Triforce has expressed an interest to flash wagon me several times. CES has expressed suspicion of me. Nuwen is going to try and bullshit her way through a last minute lynch on me. Don't do it, because I'm actually town.

This. Even though you're in our top five, Nuwen's vote has scumscumscum written all over it. There is literally no town motivation in trying to start new shit 26 (28?) hours from deadline.

Really?
We can't lynch this?

I mean, Nuwen was a more viable lynch at the time when we thought she was scum with a shitty vote but things have changed since then, so.

[Triforce]

Oh hell.

It's gunna be us. I don't really care. There's too much herp derp to figure anything out and we probably really should be lynching one of the lurkers or people who have stayed completely under the radar in the past 72 hours, but whatever.

vote: Kublai Khan

[Triforce]

oh that vote was a preview edit as I was writing the post. >_>

[Triforce]

Reeeeallly not liking how Fate dodges most of the game day, then 72 hours from deadline goes into full on RAGING CROSSING GUARD and starts directing the game. Add in two instances of "CLAIM CLAIM CLAIM CLAIM CLAIM RAAARH CLAIM!" then "ohheyyyyy i knew you were role x, i said it forever ago. town is dumb, follow me on this new wagon".

Fate is scum.

This isn't what happened at all.

[Triforce]

Er, I read that wrong. But seriously, he hasn't done that so what are you talking about?

[Triforce]

lol

[Triforce]

jzHvblasjdgbag

vote: Beethoven

[Triforce]

I don't know what to do anymore.

[Triforce]

Still don't think Triforce is town.

Simply don't know why they couldn't claim that earlier and instead allowed Me vs them to go on for ~day until finally their wagon went to L-1 and now it looks like they'd be lynched instead of me, when it was probably even chances before

Well we TRIED to get Nuwen lynched when she was acting scummy as fuck. But Fate's explained the reason why town wouldn't care about claiming right away, AND we explained why we went on trolololling soft claims for a while, so.

[Triforce]

vote: Kublai Khan

Don't really have time to parse the claim but not sure why you waited so long to crumb a result...

[Triforce]

And what the fuck is this desperate bullshit for getting me lynched. Its an information lynch. NO. its a SCUM LYNCH. Yes.

Not even really sure what you're talking about here. I know this isn't directed at me but I'm having a hard time interpreting it...

Doesn't weak mean he'd die if he jailkept scum? Or...I'm not really understanding the claim.

Preview Edit:
Beethoven, I understand that if you're town, you're really flustered, but it sounds like you're actually accusing CDB of being scum who also just so happens to know that you could be a PR.

[Triforce]

MAYBE AP's CLAIM IS FULL OF SHIT BECAUSE IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE!!!!

MAYBE IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE ITS TRUTHFUL, YOU IDIOT

I'm not out and out calling your claim full of shit, I'm just saying it's weird that Dan is so sure that it isn't

Yeah this is weird.

[Triforce]

I was agreeing with you, CDB.

[Triforce]

:/ shrug. When I get around to claim you'll understand

If you're going to use your role to save not one, but two different lynch-candidates today, you have a lot of explaining to do.

Also, you're kind of overlooking that Beethoven and Triforce are essentially the same vanilla now that they've claimed to already have used their role.

[Triforce]

To be fair, Amrun, we didn't really claim. It was also implied "limited" as opposed to one-shot so Dan wouldn't have had a reason to believe it.

Also to be fair, we considered claiming a one-shot ability but it had nothing to do with thinking Dan would defend us because of it.

[Triforce]

ok dood. You're 1-shot. You want all the roleblocks. and the kills too

lol, this. If he used it, he's vanilla and can afford to draw NKs or be less discrete about breadcrumbing since he doesn't need to be around longer to use more actions.

[Triforce]

Vote: Nuwen

I deny being hated.

Why do you think Reck was vigged, CES?

Killing suspicious anti-town players seems like fairly straightforward play.

And you think Reck was the most suspicious, most anti-town player by the end of D2?

[Triforce]

I'm very cautious of the assumption that it was a vig, btw.

[Triforce]

Day 1, VC 1

Fate (1)

: TheTrollie

Amrun (3)

: Fate, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zdenek

Not voting (9):

ActionDan, Amrun, BBmolla, ChannelDelibird, Kublai Khan, Iecerint, MattP, Nuwen, Triforce

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2013-08-11 17:05:36)

Was ActionDan's vote overlooked or is this accurate?

[Triforce]

Wait, also, wtf, BBmolla's mod-confirmed town and still alive...

[Triforce]

Wow, I'm retarded.

[Triforce]

Yeah, that just seems too easy and why risk confirmed town being in the narrowed down list of options. At least half of Gamma's reads were pretty shit and if Reck was killed by a scum faction then...well I have no response to that but he was way more annoying than you, and once you were mod-confirmed town, way more useless.

Preview Edit:
Amrun, that just means that one of them would be dead instead? Not Gamma. Unless I missed a soft-claim somewhere.

[Triforce]

Or Reck for that matter, but let's be serious, if he wasn't scum he was vanilla.

Maybe I'm just a lot more transparent as scum and think, hey maybe don't keep the confirmed town alive?

[Triforce]

oh.

yeah I guess there's that, too.

[Triforce]

CES claim? I want to know role and name.

[Triforce]

Seems more likely that the mafia is actual mafia

games

. Drunk Mafia, Giant UPick Mafia, Great(er/est) Idea Mafia, etc...

Still pretty sure Matt is town, so it's not just "things from mafia games."

[Triforce]

Wait, also, wtf, BBmolla's mod-confirmed town and still alive...

how?

Woah. Calm down BBmolla! Stop barking at us. Please. Just calm down and we'll give you what you want. Who's a good dog who's gender we didn't learn? Who's a good dog who's gender we didn't learn! Yes you are. Now, roll over!

BBmolla is MOD CONFIRMED to be the Karaoke Dog and aligned with the

Balto Meet

.

The above is mod confirmed to be true, purple text and all that! Day Continues.

...........................................

[Triforce]

I don't believe Trollie ever said he was one-shot.

[Triforce]

Or at least assume that mafia only has one-shot roles, as well?

[Triforce]

Well I guess that's a silly assumption, but I wouldn't assume that mafia would claim to be multi-shot if they know all of the town only has one-shot abilities.

Again, maybe I'm just thinking about the ~obvious~. >_>

[Triforce]

@Dan...can you explain your ability a bit more and why that counters Amrun, exactly?

[Triforce]

Ohthankgawd.

But seriously, I hope we're wrong about Amrun because I have this opposition to policy lynches past D2. -_-

Preview Edit:
Uh...we're non-mafia. I can't remember if we claimed that yesterday, but I agree with CES that it doesn't really matter unless we name-claim to give more weight to the "mafia vs non-mafia" theory.

[Triforce]

Oh wait.

Except we had questions.

Nuweeen...whyyyy.

[Triforce]

o/

[Triforce]

I am right now standing on my head.

this is a desperate plee for attention since my SICK AS FUCK read streak isnt doing it for all y'all

for the love of god sheep me and win the game.

im either going to vote for BB or Fate.

matt is obv scum for dumbly protecting his buddy. Guess who called that one as soon as it happened. THIS FUCKING GUY.

you all need to stop being dumb and realize that i know what im fucking doing in this game.

VOTE: bb

ANOTHER clownfuck who is trying to steal my thunder?

Where the fuck was your "sick" reads when your dumbass was getting lynched? Afterward?

Sit the fuck down

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Come back when you un-lynch Axxle.



Still down for a KK lynch, but whatever happened to mass name claim? (Disclaimer: Have barely skimmed the last few pages. If this happened already, ignore me.)

[Triforce]

Also

Can we flash wagon kk??? Plz????

VOTE: KK

His posts today have been so scummy I am happy with this yay

^^^^ This is the main thing stopping me from just lynching KK right now.

Not sure why Amrun would go LAST MINUTE FLASHWAGON FROM MY SCUMBUDDY TO ANOTHER SCUMBUDDY. Open to suggestio

[Triforce]

@Cogito Ergo Sum: BBmolla read?

Seriously?

[Triforce]

In fact, I want to know why you specifically asked CES to specifically give you a read on BBMolla.

[Triforce]

I have a follow up, so I'll tell you after he answers.

His answer is moot. Why did you ask him about a MOD-CONFIRMED INNOCENT CHILD whose confirmed innocence has been re-posted two times?

What exactly are you trying to pull here?

[Triforce]

I think the lack of N2 actions is suspect. TheTrollie has not responded to this that I have noticed. Someone being a multi-shot neighborizer plus "other stuff" seems unlikely to me.

This is awful, weak reasoning. Try harder please.

[Triforce]

Also, Trollie would have to be a super duper extra special level of terribad to have NO IDEA BBMOLLA WAS CONFIRMED as scum, because I can't imagine that it didn't come up in nightkill discussion at SOME point over the last two nights.

[Triforce]

EBWOP:

Also, TrollieScum would have to be a super duper extra special level of terribad to have NO IDEA BBMOLLA WAS CONFIRMED

as scum

, because I can't imagine that it didn't come up in nightkill discussion at SOME point over the last two nights.

Edited for clarity.

[Triforce]

Also, Trollie would have to be a super duper extra special level of terribad to have NO IDEA BBMOLLA WAS CONFIRMED as scum, because I can't imagine that it didn't come up in nightkill discussion at SOME point over the last two nights.

Aaaand yet people can lie for towncred

I think he's a 3rd party anyway for his general attitude about Beethoven's lynch

Not interested in hunting for third parties with no evidence they exist or are trying to hurt the town, when there are still 2-3 mafiascums left.


Not buying any of this.

[Triforce]

Also that's a pretty bad thing to lie about. TBH I'm not sure that Trollie would have enough focus at that stage in the game to have pretended to fake not remembering BBMolla was conftown. But hey, let me know how that tinfoil hat works out.

[Triforce]

That said,

TROLLIE

, I would like to know WHY you chose each of the people you've neigborized N1/N2/N3.


TIA,
Glork

[Triforce]

If Trollie is the Pikachu this game too, I'd laugh for many reasons

Too? Uh, when was he pikachu before? I specifically remember FREAKING THE FUCK OUT because

I

was pikachu, and thought CDB was fucking with me, but I thought he was a better person than that.

In any case, I know I submitted that as a "thing" in this game, but I've been doing my best to block that out of my memory.

But it does bring up more questionable things. We didn't really think about the possibility of a third party pikachu option. Amrun would've been worth lynching off of that alone, considering we were jaded enough to think her bad play in general was just bad town play--Reck, too, but...well obviously we were wrong about both. -_-

KK, Zdenek, CDB, and CES are also not very ~town~esque.

[Triforce]

I think the lack of N2 actions is suspect. TheTrollie has not responded to this that I have noticed. Someone being a multi-shot neighborizer plus "other stuff" seems unlikely to me.

This is awful, weak reasoning. Try harder please.

I have a better example of awful, weak reasoning for you:

Also, Trollie would have to be a super duper extra special level of terribad to have NO IDEA BBMOLLA WAS CONFIRMED as scum, because I can't imagine that it didn't come up in nightkill discussion at SOME point over the last two nights.

I suppose that would come with the assumption that he didn't neighborize anyone N2, but not sure why people are assuming that?

[Triforce]

We're kanyeknowsbest. Singer/quadz are traveling and I'm too lazy to do anything right now.

derp

[Triforce]

I mean, I dunno. Quadz and I are back so we can kind of read up on the game if you want, but, yeah, trying to get back into life. We're probably not going to have anything new to add to the mix. Would've voted for KK over Trollie based off of some sketchy posts when he first replaced in that we can't be fucked to find right now (off the top of our heads, the reads post).

But we have come to the conclusion that Trollie's more telling of a flip and could help us parse MattP out, especially if he's scum.

Eh, we're out of fucks to give about this right now and since our reads have been pretty shit this game (I'd actually say they've been good...just wrong ), we have nothing else to go on.

[Triforce]

Especially if Trollie's* scum.

Also, will commit to a vote when we've either caught up, or have decided that we don't have the energy to.

Cheers.

[Triforce]

@CDB - ActionDan already confirmed me as someone who at any rate didn't kill N1-N3, but go to town.

That would not be exceptionally weird but obviously it's in your favour. Of everyone left, though, I think I feel least good about you.

Why are you so confident about us all of a sudden?

@Trollie...do you feel like an 18 player game would have 5 scum?

ActionDan kill doesn't make sense because his claim was so wonky and all over the place. We couldn't really parse him, so he was far from "confirmed town" to us, especially with the thought that he could've been a mafia role-copier.

[Triforce]

Hmm, I see what you mean, but then they subsequently post stuff like this:

Also, you're kind of overlooking that Beethoven and Triforce are essentially the same vanilla now that they've claimed to already have used their role.

So it's possible that the apparent re-claim of vanilla is really just weird use of English.

Triforce should clarify whether or not they were always vanilla.

That quote was implying that because Beethoven claimed to have used their "one-shot" role, they were no more useful alive than we were, since we claimed (are) vanilla town.

It was some argument that someone was making about lynching vanilla over a power role or something, and the fallacy was that they weren't technically a power role anymore.

We never claimed or implied any kind of power role after we claimed to be Vanilla and name-claimed after that.

[Triforce]

Well, to

really

clarify, we don't technically have an innocent of any variety on you, but your reaction to thinking we had one while dropping our scum read on you made us think you were pretty town.

[Triforce]

Eh.

vote: TheTrollie

[Triforce]

Nuwen (Killed N3) was

A Hermit Card from Shadow Hunters

, 1-shot Kill Cop, aligned with

Balto Meet

.
ActionDan (Klled N4) was

Blackfaced Asians

, 1-shot Role Copier, aligned with

Balto Meet

.
Cogito Ergo Sum (Died N5) was a

A Plate of Deep-Fried Cookies

, Partial Vigilante, aligned with

Balto Meet

.

These are better nightkill targets than us.

Why? Because they were all universally-protown POWER ROLES, whereas we are VANILLA.

In case you hadn't noticed, Zedenek, the scums are killing of the town's POWER. This is why BBMolla, who is a MOD-CONFIRMED INNOCENT CHILED is also still alive. Because he is NOT POWER.



Anyway, Zdenek might be the last scum, he's done nothing but ride the coattails of Reck's townread on Grimm, which may have actually been wrong.
Also, in b4 omgus.

[Triforce]

Also, CES, shame on you. You cost us a free lynch by killing obvtownFate.

[Triforce]

(Real response incoming.)

[Triforce]

Nuwen (Killed N3) was

A Hermit Card from Shadow Hunters

, 1-shot Kill Cop, aligned with

Balto Meet

.
ActionDan (Klled N4) was

Blackfaced Asians

, 1-shot Role Copier, aligned with

Balto Meet

.
Cogito Ergo Sum (Died N5) was a

A Plate of Deep-Fried Cookies

, Partial Vigilante, aligned with

Balto Meet

.

These are better nightkill targets than us.

Why? Because they were all universally-protown POWER ROLES, whereas we are VANILLA.

In case you hadn't noticed, Zedenek, the scums are killing of the town's POWER. This is why BBMolla, who is a MOD-CONFIRMED INNOCENT CHILED is also still alive. Because he is NOT POWER.



Anyway, Zdenek might be the last scum, he's done nothing but ride the coattails of Reck's townread on Grimm, which may have actually been wrong.
Also, in b4 omgus.

Ha ha!

I didn't argue that you are scum because you aren't dead yet. I said that your scum for being useless, and predicted your future uselessness based on that. So the first part of your post is just worthless. Better yet, you jump to be being scum based on riding the coattails of Recks town read on Grimmjow. Now, I might be biased, but I'm pretty sure that one look at my ISO would have shown you that is false. It's good to see that you are already living up to my prediction.

We're not really sure what you were accusing us of if you weren't saying that we're scum because we've avoided being night killed...

The point wasn't that you didn't say "they're scum because they're not dead yet"--you said we were scum because we weren't doing anything, and needed to pretend to be useless to explain why we weren't dead...so we kindly pointed out that it wouldn't have mattered to pretend we were useless as scum because there were far better night kill choices than us anyway. Other than Gamma, I think.

Like...there's a confirmed town in the game...how much more "useless" would we have to pretend to be AS SCUM to explain why we weren't being nightkilled INSTEAD OF CONFIRMED TOWN.

Ugh. I can't even believe someone could be stupid enough to make that argument.

[Triforce]

EBWOP:

Ugh. I can't even believe someone could be stupid enough to make that argument.

...which led to the conclusion that you're more than likely scum trying to grasp at anything seemingly "obvious" to get another lynch through.

[Triforce]

@MattP...how do you feel about being wrong about Trollie?

[Triforce]

I keep looking at this thread to see if anyone else has pooped their head in yet, but nothing's really happening. People could at least comment on what they think about Zdenek/Triforce back n forth, since it's the only new thing that's happened so far.

*sigh*

Zdenek, assuming you're town, do you really only think we're scum because you think we've been useless this game? As opposed to all of the other super helpful people in this game... You're putting the, as Glork is so fond of, burden of proficiency on all three of us. What makes us more competent than anyone else that's left in the game, or yourself, even, as BBmolla pointed out in his earlier post today.

[Triforce]

Now I would love to know if there is in any way a feasible case against Triforce so that I can assure myself that this isn't all confirmation bias.

My recollection of Triforce is basically that they got friendly from D2 on and that is all I remember.

To be fair, we only really buddied up to you to see what you (and others) would do in reaction to our sudden flip in read on you.

There's probably a case on us in so far as our claim kept changing and we were obviously wrong about Amrun and Reck (and you assuming we're right now). I think Zdenek's case on us includes the fact that we weren't really cohesive as a hydra D1 and D2, which didn't help us D3 when it fell apart timewise on our end. As far as D4 onward, there's not really any grounds to say we haven't been trying except in an apathetic kind of way, not a "we can't" kind of way. We're all kind of tired of large themes because of everyone's trigger happy post finger/egos, but make exceptions for invitations.

In any case, I really can't feel out how Zdenek is trying to make a case on us based on us "purposefully" not trying. If he read us at ALL D1, it was pretty obvious we were, and then just got lazy. It doesn't take scum to strategically think "oh, I should 'not try' so I don't get nightkilled" when there's a confirmed town in the game. I mean, really. That HAS to be scum reaching.

[Triforce]

In all honesty, I'm starting to get paranoid about CDB. (stifled by the fact that he's apparently really easy to ready by many people people who are already dead and flipped town, so...)

Does anyone left think there's a pikachu in the game? Wouldn't it be a horrible plot twist if we all forgot about that...

[Triforce]

I swear to fucking everything there actually has to be a pikachu mechanic in this game, it would be absurd if there wasn't considering it was one of the main points of the meet. I suggested pikachu to the mods before the game begam

I did, too, so I assumed there was, but I forgot about it for about three days.

I ACCUSE MATTP OF BEING THE PIKACHU.

Zdenek can accuse us before he gets lynched.

[Triforce]

I don't have anything in my PM that forces me to accuse people of being the Pikachu upon this stuff starting. I have flavor that has nothing to do with the Pikachu.

Perhaps this is the implementation of the Pikachu? O.o

We're not doing it because our PM prompted us to, we're doing it to cover our basis since that's how BBmolla and MattP did it.

I looked at the OP again and there's nothing to implicate that there IS a pikachu in the game, but then again, when I was, there wasn't anything in that game other than EVERYONE'S A TROLL to implicate there was then.

[Triforce]

DISCLAIMER: This post is mostly just a base response to Zdenek's pile of confirmation bias / supremely-narrow-minded attack.

Soooooo, Iece, money where your mouth is. You've called Axxle, Triforce, Frequency, and Amrun scum, yet NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THE AXXLE WAGON, AND YOU CLAIM THAT NOW IS AN IDEAL TIME TO BUS.

So who do you think is bussing Axxle?


Vote: Iece after looking at his awful contradictory stance towards Axxle/bussing/his suspicions, we actually like this even MORE than Reck. Once he flips scum, Reck can go next.

I'm pretty sure that this is a "focus on a detail to generate a contradiction" argument from scum rather than one based on a legitimate read, but like I said before, that's a gut thing.

Nah, this is actually a prime example of cognitive dissonance, which for Iece (who I think is usually a pretty ruthlessly logical person) seemed super out of place and likely to be indicative of manufacturing arguments. Saying "Your stated suspicons conflict with your voting patterns" isn't focusing on a detail. It's stating a very basic contradiction. Less rhetoric pls.

I'm going through the thread now. I assume a claim is wanted: I'm Chamber's Face Looking Exactly the Same Upside Down, Vanilla Townie.

PEdit: I wasn't checking the thread because I'm at work and there's a lot of pages. I think I mentioned I was away for most of yesterday in my last post.

VT claim + no real effort to defend himself is not an AxxleScum claim. This is very clearly coming from town.

You folks can start your white knighting arguments now.

Preemptively mentioning things they could be accused of.
They do this again later when attack me and mention the possibility that they will be accused of OMGUS.

Can you explain how pointing out likely arguments to paint us as scummy is in and of itself a scumtell?
Because it's pretty obvious when people are going to manufacture arguments. Singer knew Axxle was town based on behavior. And the attack was really bad. And the speed of the wagon was bullshit. So we defended it. So what do people do when someone is REALLY VOCALLY AGAINST A LYNCH ON TOWN and they want to make it look bad? Use the White Knight argument.
We also called you scum after you called us scum. The "in b4 OMGUS" comment was most in jest, because true OMGUS at this stage doesn't exist. We tacked it on to the end of a legitimate argument, yet somehow you managed to strawman the OMGUS comment instead of the actual meat behind the post.

Oh, and I forgot the hilarity of Triforce attacking Nuwen for trying to start a wagon near the deadline and then doing it themselves.

Way to not take context into play.
Starting a wagon at the end of D1 when there is zero pressure on yourself is MASSIVELY different than a play on another player later in the game when you have signifcant pressure on yourself.

Also worth noting that our play resulted in Beethoven's lynch, and our virtual confirmation on Singer's behavioral tells.

Nuwen was even voting Reck who was one of Triforce's biggest scum reads at the time.

Well, to be fair Nuwen was a scum read of theirs anyway, but that attack was bullshit, and they should have considered who she was voting.

It's almost like we thought scum could bus each other. Preeeettty crazy, I know.

Triforce's Trollie vote is truly horrible. They defend Trollie, they have other scum reads, but then try to justify lynching Trollie as an information/apathy lynch.

To be fair, Glork has done this as town on multiple occasions. Author Mafia was the most recent example. (Glork hammered even as he proclaimed that he was hammering town.) Also worth noting that FateTown did the exact same thing just yesterday. You're going to have to try extra hard to convince anyone that this is a scumtell.
And Singer has a track record for settling for information lynches despite thinking people are town, so there's that too.


Anyway it's probably good that Iece unvoted, because I would have instahammered that shit.

Zdenek's appraoch of "let me pretend to analyze these people I've already not accused of being scum to look helpful, and then try to cherrypick a bunch of possibly-scummy-looking posts by Triforce" approach is pretty bland. Like, there might possibly be some legitimate points made in there (we haven't played the cleanest game, and the whole Quadz-MattP thing was actually really bad), but somehow Zdenek manages to actually make up the worst arguments possible in his failed attempt to "analyze" us and discover something scummy. He's reaching SUPER hard here.

[Triforce]

Glork called it bad in this post, singer called it bad on D2 or D3 when she was pissed off quadz and Glork tried to work independently from one another, and we've admitted we've been playing terribly together since then. How can you justify saying that us calling the whole interaction/pursuit-of-things-we-didn't-even-understand-cohesively-yet bad, is even remotely scummy? Hindsight is 20/20, dude.

We've already explained everything you're trying to bring up now, but just further proof of how desperate you are to build a "case" on us.

And we've already explained why we don't think Iece is scum since the one thing we thought he was scum for in the first place, so...
Aaand we were waiting to vote until you accused us of being the pikachu. So when people are good and ready and satisfied, don't worry, we'll be ready to hammer for the win.

[Triforce]

Where did you explain this Iecerint thing?

Why don't you ISO us and find it yourself?

I mean, we already questioned the people we need to question. And we don't need to do anymore than find the last scum, which we've done. So...I'd say that's pretty valuable.

[Triforce]

Ugh. Now I'm paranoid.

Can everyone to comment on our interactions with Zdenek today. What do you think of the points each of us have brought up against each other?

@Zdenek...did we ever ask you about CDB and what you thought about his contributions to the game? (this is us asking you do to so if you haven't already)

[Triforce]

I think an important thing to note here is that, while we've acknowledged not playing the best game ever (on several occasions), that's pretty normal for even good players.

There are still all of the behavioral tells (Glork's flippant trolling attitude, Singer's enthusiasm at the start about not-being-scum, Singer's unyielding fury at how this game that was supposed to be fun was ruining things, etc., etc., etc.) that are hallmarks of how we act as town.

Zdenek's response to that has been 'well idk so you're scummy" because he's trying really desperately to cling to get ANY foothold he can to try to paint us as scum. He hasn't shown any curiosity or acknowledgment that meta/behavioral tells exist and very well might be legit. He hasn't asked for meta to prove that we're town. He hasn't asked any of the other players about our meta/behavior. He's not interested in our alignment, he just wants to try to get us dead.

PEDIT: lol @ trust Gamma. How about trusting Fate (knew we were town), ActionDan (knew we were town), CES (knew we were town), Trollie (thought we were town), BBMolla (thinks we're town). No. Don't appeal to the masses/dead/confirmedtown. Don't even try that nonsense, because most of the dead towns decided we were town.

[Triforce]

Like, I'm paranoid that this is a Gamma vs Triforce all over again, and scum is just letting town crush itself.

Preview Edit:
Yeah, what he said. Cuz really, you're scum.

[Triforce]

Without looking over their posts, how do you think other living people feel about us and CDB?

[Triforce]

I mean it was so obvious that it [Triforce's softclaim] was independently picked up on by at least 3 parties (Iec, Beethoven, Amrun, maybe someone else too).

Something I noticed. O.o

Fwiw, (and I realize I'm biased here) I think that Beethoven fishing around our soft claim is probably a sign that we're town. I'd really like to hear the justification on us being scum with Beethoven and Amrun based on that. The idea that the three of us would interact in that manner is just bizarre. I don't think that "let me rolefish my scumbuddy's soft claim and bring lots of unnecessary attention to him" is a remotely good idea.

Also I'm p sure that Reck and Dan indicated they got the breadcrumb. It was kind of supposed to be obvious because it wasn't true.

[Triforce]

Like, if we were scum trying to intentionally make an obvious breadcrumb, there would be ZERO need for Beethoven to stick his neck out and openly question it. All that does is put attention on him for fishing around and put us in an uncomfortable spot where we don't have a good option between confirm/deny/be-vague.

[Triforce]

Right but I mean the role fishing. How often do you honestly see scum rolefish their scumbuddies?

[Triforce]

No, Bee first brought it up in Post 975.

Also worth noting that apparently Bee accused us of white knighting Axxle in Post 527 before we ever mentioned it. ISOs are helpful.

[Triforce]

After our response in which we declined to answer, the next time it came up was you in 1082 and Bee claiming we are not a cop immediately afterwards in 1083, after which you and Reck correctly scolded the scum for poking around the beadcrumb.

[Triforce]

We're confident that it's Zdenek. Thought this was pretty clear already.

[Triforce]

The few games I glanced at suggest that in minis you present protown reads on your scumbuddies but favor middling-to-distancing stances a bit more in larger games.

There is more interaction here than in what I've seen. Not enough to dissuade me at the moment.

[Triforce]

OK REWORK BEING DONE HERE BEAR WITH ME.

So I ISOed the mod, DGB, Gamma, and CES to see if anything would make sense from those NKs and what reads we could gain from them. As far as DGB goes, she was kind of all over the place and kind of pushed Reckscum, so I'm not sure that tells us anything other than someone was threatened by her potential later-game play. Gamma only really pushed us and Amrun so obviously that was Amrun's doing. CES isn't very telling, but it makes me want to believe his CDB read...

except for Reck's scumread on CDB...

Buuut this is the most noteable votecount I saw (at a glance, mind you) at the end of D2 with Beethoven's lynch.

Day 2, VC 44

Triforce (5)

:

Gammagooey

,Iecerint,

Cogito Ergo Sum

, Zdenek,

BBmolla

Beethoven

(9)

:

Fate, Nuwen, TheTrollie

, Triforce, ChannelDelibird,

xRECKONERx

,

Kublai Khan

,

ActionDan

, MattP

Kublai Khan

(2)

:

Amrun, Beethoven

Not voting (0):

--

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2013-07-26 22:50:36)
[/color]

PLEASE POINT OUT ANY MISTAKES IN THE VOTECOUNT. PLEASE!

So it's clear at this point that Amrun and Beethoven were distancing from KK and probably trying to make him look more town. Assuming four scum, chances are the last one wasn't bussing Beethoven with KK, which leaves us with Iecerant an zdenek. In light of a recent realization that zdenek probably isn't suicidal and had every opportunity to push a lynch on us instead of Amrun at the beginning of D3, we're thinking it might actually be Iece...

Preview Edit:
Right, so Glork wanted to know if you felt like you were pushing a lynch you felt like you could actually achieve, knowing that everyone else pretty much knows we're town at this point, or if you were just making noise. It seems kind of suicidal to continually push a hopeless cause, especially as the last scum.

[Triforce]

Oh yeah, and singer looked for the explanation for Iece's changed read and can't really seem to find it so we think it might've been someone else said it and we just agreed or something.

Which is kind of going to crap now that we're looking more into it...

[Triforce]

@Matt...was there any reason or anything to indicate why your ability could only be used D1?