Balto the Invitational - Game Over
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Triforce Goon
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WASSUP BISCOCHOS WE HAVE RETURNED FROM THE BEACH WITH AWESOME SUNBURNS (seriously holy shit we are all in significant pain it's awful)
Anywho, after reading all 12 goddamn pages of this thread, I am going to
VOTE: Reck
Trollie is also on the SCUMMALICIOUS list but I don't know how many votes are on him right now and can't be fucked to count, and to want to accidentally hammer or similarly dumb shit.
Seriously Reck's "case" on Frequency is possibly the shittiest thing I have ever seen in a mafia game. It feels like a reckscum move, though I couldn't throw you any meta actually demonstrating why it feels that way.
Also, I am ignoring all claims made thus far except for Matt's governor claim (already proven) and Molla's miller claim (cause miller claim) because Day 1 claims are stupid and more likely to be HILARIOUS JOKEZ than anything else.-
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In post 309, Lost Butterfly wrote:Mod: Was this accurate? Or are you just bad at counting? EDIT: Also applies to latest votecount, as pointed out by CDB.
Reck saying CES is bad at mafia is hilarious and is another indicator of ScumReck.
Also I focused on that "one thing that happened on page two" because it is by far the scummiest thing anyone has done thus far. *SHRUG* (also I like the tear-down on our play, solid ad-hom there)
Also want to point out that TownMatt being wrong on D1 seems pretty standard.
Because it feels like a scum post from reck, not a town one. Reck's posting doesn't really veer into "dumb" in my experience. Also, that was not a town post. Not my comment above about ad-hom and how we focused on the scummiest thing that's happened so far.
Also also, your scum-read on Dan is terribad.
CDB why trollie over reck?-
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Triforce Goon
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lolIn post 393, MattP wrote:Actually, I don't even need an answer, it's blatant enough. The read I've been pushing hardest is a Trollie scumread, but Singer previously said:
And later saidIn post 280, Triforce wrote:Trollie is also on the SCUMMALICIOUS list but I don't know how many votes are on him right now and can't be fucked to count, and to want to accidentally hammer or similarly dumb shit.
Which makes NO sense because her prior reasoning for not voting Trollie was that there may be too many votes on him, not because Reck was a better option, so her stance is inconsistentIn post 347, Triforce wrote:CDB why trollie over reck?
Her statement about ignoring me because I'm wrong D1 is a logical fallacy in relation to her apparent agenda/reads. It doesn't matter what my read on Trollie is and it doesn't matter if I'm wrong a lot D1, she arrived at her own Trollie scumread, there isn't any causation in that because she thinks I'm wrong a lot Day 1 her D1 read that happens to coincide with mine is now incorrect.
POINT BEING she is either scumbuddies with Trollie and she said it to discredit me, or he could be town and she just was using preknowledge of alignment for towncred forgetting that previously she said Trollie was scummalicious. And if her read on Trollie did change between the two posts she would have tried to maybe stop a 6 person wagon and move it elsewhere without covertly calling my reads shit?
VOTE: Triforce
Triforce scumslipped on read consistency, doesn't matter today what it means in reference to Trollie's alignment-
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Triforce Goon
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There are just so many thingsIn post 401, MattP wrote:Glad you liked itwrongwith that post, I don't even know where to begin.
So I'll start by asking you what makes you think singer made EITHER of those posts?-
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Triforce Goon
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It certainly matters.
One of those posts is a statement by one hydra head stating their belief that Trollie is scummy.
Another post is a statement by that same hydra head inquiring about the motive behind CDB's decision to push one wagon over another (which, contrary to what you seem to want to believe, is NOT an endorsement of TrollieTown).
And the post about MattP being a baddie D1 is not mutually exclusive to sharing a read on Trollie.
You actually managed to make up two logical fallacies and a poor assumption about our hydra's headposting and communcation in an effort to make us look bad. Color me impressed.-
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Nah this is Glork right now.In post 414, Iecerint wrote:I've actually read basically all of Triforce as singer, or at least as not-Glork.
Anyway, cooking dinner.-
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How in blue hell did you go from me responding by saying "lol, ur wrong" as "getting so defensive"?In post 419, Amrun wrote:
How does it matter who made the posts? Do you think this excuses you from responding to Matt's points? Are you claiming hydra dissonance or what?In post 410, Triforce wrote:
There are just so many thingsIn post 401, MattP wrote:Glad you liked itwrongwith that post, I don't even know where to begin.
So I'll start by asking you what makes you think singer made EITHER of those posts?
P-edit: see, an answer of "that's not a comment on Trollietown" is an actual answer. Why not just say that instead of getting so defensive?
P-edit 2: ugh, how does taking back saying Matt is bad in d1 change anything?-
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Matt's claiming congitive dissonance on two occasions where it doesn't exist, misattributed two quotes to singer, and then passed it off as "oh I don't care," and based a vote on the assumption that all three of us think that he's bad and therefore WE CANT SHARE ANY READS WITH HIM AT ANY POINT EXCEPT OH WAIT WE DID AT SOME POINT SO WE MUST BE SCUM.
Like. That actually makes no sense. At all. It's beyond moronic.
It would have been fine if MattP went "oh wait, different people have different perceptions of my play D1," because like I just said, 2/3 of us DON'T believe that MattP is wrong D1. But nope, he actually tried to roll all of this into talking about one hydra head, when that simplydoes not apply. His argument is factually invalid on every level, so yeah, I said there were a ton of things wrong with it and started on one angle.-
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buzz buzz buzz
Uh, no? Do you remember ANY of the games we played at the meet? I was pretty terrible as scum. I mean, at least this game isn't face-to-face so there's that, but I'm pretty universally mediocre as scum. Your argument is still factually retarded.In post 432, MattP wrote:
Yeah, he's using scare tactics, but I don't give a shit? Protip: Glork is good at being scum. Just sift through his posts and grab for the ones by Singer and QuadzIn post 429, Iecerint wrote:If I had Glork in my hydra I would make him make all the posts.
Glorktown generally doesn't give a fuck D1. TBH I haven't even read most of pages 6-12.In post 434, Iecerint wrote:Glork is even better at being town, but he's yet to do that, 's my point.
buzz.In post 435, ActionDan wrote:triforce was my 3rd in mind for a vote.-
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Axxle wagon is bullshit, and Reck/Iece on it are both scum.
Asskissing, much?In post 490, xRECKONERx wrote:
this doesn't get lynched. everIn post 483, Grimmjow wrote:Frequency is a bad vote because of the (heh) frequency of his posts. Like, what? One, two posts? I don't care to actually count. And he's new. And he's being prodded. Though, to be fair, when I was a wee noobie and was scum, I'd post early in the game and then disappear too (what the hell am I saying? I still do that.).
Amrun idk about because I always think she's scum.
Though I'm inclined to believe that this Axxle wagon is not all town-sided. Not to say he's not scum (though from like 3 posts I can't really tell). I really feel as though this wagon grew way too quickly on "hey, he's posted a list of reads/thoughts that don't mention the most prominent poster at all and it's in alphabetical order." That's kinda dumb reasoning in my book. Perhaps y'all are seeing way more than I am, but I'm not jumping on that stupid wagon anytime soon.
I'm feeling lazy right now, so that's all I'm doing. Kay? Kay.
SIDENOTE: I actually *REALLY* want to hear what Brock thinks about Reck at this point.
Also, Iece:
The whole let-me-call-Reck-scum-vote-him-then-unvote-him-then-call-him-town-in-the-same-post thing is ridiculous.
But beyond that, somebody iso him.
Look at his voting history.
Look at how he jumps onto Amrun, Trollie, and Axxle as their wagons are springing up and beyond that makes an effort to fuel wagons (like his comment about "Glork is usually good town)
And look at how he said that lynching Frequency D1 is just poor form (even beyond general affection), but now that Frequency seems to be a chic default/compromise lynch, he's suddenly okay with EVERYONE VOTING HIM.
Look at the wishy-washy and irrelevant fluff posted in Iece's first check-in post on Page 7:
Of the ten comments Iece makes, half of them are "Mehhhhhh X, but Y so mehhhhh" or literally irrelevant fluff.Frequency may be scum but I don't want to lynch Frequency. <3
Gamma please stop being a difficult person it is terrible (#117).
CES is so cute when he has his Nibbler avatar. ]]] (134).
Fate makes me really want to vote him in 144 but I am so proud of my Reck synergy on Amrun that I will not do that.
Trollie could be scum, but I am not emotionally attached to voting Trollie.
And like I said, one of his votes is like "Mehhhhhhh vote reck but follow him onto Amrun because ~town~"
It's especially apparent that at this point, Iece just wants the Axxle-wagon to go through no matter what, which I'm pretty sure is NOT a sign of Iece-town, but would need to confirm that with meta/history.
Soooooo, Iece, money where your mouth is. You've called Axxle, Triforce, Frequency, and Amrun scum, yetNONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THE AXXLE WAGON, AND YOU CLAIM THAT NOW IS AN IDEAL TIME TO BUS.
So who do you think is bussing Axxle?
Vote: Ieceafter looking at his awful contradictory stance towards Axxle/bussing/his suspicions, we actually like this even MORE than Reck. Once he flips scum, Reck can go next.-
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You can't argue that the speed of the wagon isn't alarming by saying BUT HE WOULD BE BUSSED, then argue that NOBODY ON HIS WAGON IS SCUM.In post 501, Iecerint wrote:
Namely, that comment obviously in the context of Grimm's concerns about the speed of the wagon. Other stuff is also flagrantly taken out of context.Triforce wrote:Soooooo, Iece, money where your mouth is. You've called Axxle, Triforce, Frequency, and Amrun scum, yet NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ON THE AXXLE WAGON, AND YOU CLAIM THAT NOW IS AN IDEAL TIME TO BUS.
That's called cognitive dissonance, and it's a blatant scumtell.
Also, what exactly was "flagrantly taken out of context"? By all means, don't sit around and take half-assed potshots at our argument. If you feel that context makes your terrible voting/posting less scummy, you're more than welcome to try to prove us wrong.-
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Because buzz.In post 505, Gammagooey wrote:like 80% serious question- triforce why do all of your posts that don't have the word buzz in them sound angry?-
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But Nuwen's reason is legitimately retarded, because if Axxle just had time to comment on a few people, going alphabetical down the list would be the exact reason he didn't comment on Reck yet.In post 516, Gammagooey wrote:
I feeel like you're doing what I do sometimes and noticed that a wagon's jumped on some dude for not-amazing reasons but then overlook that there's not actually anything pointing to said dude being town. Cause although I think this is actually pretty decent for Day 1 junk and has the bonus of probably not just being a personality-tell there isn't really SUPER SUBSTANTIAL there, but that plus literally no towntells whatsoever makes it pretty good IMO.In post 508, Triforce wrote:Probably because out of fucks to give. If it's going to take Axxle getting mislynched and Iece dying of mysterious causes to win everyone else over, so be it. But if we can avoid these shenanigans, that'd be ideal.
What exactly makes you think that this wagon is "pretty decent"? What about Axxle's posting convinces you that this goes beyond personality and makes Axxle more likely to be scum than the average player?
Also, burden of proof becuase "literally no towntells" but y'know.-
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What are you talking about? Brock's concerns are that the wagon is super fast because scum are on it (To quote Brock directly: "I'm inclined to believe that this Axxle wagon is not all town-sided... I really feel as though this wagon grew way too quickly on [dumb reasoning]"). For you to say that his concern is invalid and explicitly say that this is an ideal time for Axxle to be bussed translates to "Grimm, you are wrong because there are scum on Axxle's wagon even though he is scum."
Can you please explain how this is not the case?
The issue we have is that you're calling Axxle scum, trying to convince Brock to join the wagon because despite his concerns, this is "ideal" time to Bus, but all of your other concrete suspicions are not on his wagon. You're actually arguing two mutually exclusive points here.
And now that we finally called you out on this, you're falling back on "maybe Gamma" to try to cover up for your cognitive dissonance.
Nice copout. This sentence might as well read "I'm choosing not to respond to you because you're right."Iecerint wrote:And nah, I have no ambition to make an obnoxious wallpost; your post kinda speaks for itself.
Beacuse you didn't vote Amrun until two people had voted for her and two other people had called her scum.In post 512, Iecerint wrote:But why they would pick ME of all people is a little funky IMO.
You didn't jump onto Trollie until four other people were voting for him.
You didn't go back to Amrun until Trollie momentum had waned (BBMolla's unvote) and Amrun picked up steam again (DGB's vote).
You didn't comment on us until Matt's postsplosion and Trollie's following him onto us and Amrun questioning us.
And you didn't jump onto Axxle until Nuwen's awful reasoning was followed by two equally awful votes.
We feel like all you've done is tried to push bad wagons, so it's not just this most recent wagon/busing/suspects thing. Your posts have actively made us collectively cringe, and that's why we're bringing this to light.-
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Welp. Better not let the accused defend himself.In post 537, Iecerint wrote:I do not want the Axxle wagon to derail before Axxle returns.-
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I mean, you could have voted Frequency, or Gamma, or Fate. But you chose to vote the person who had BY FAR the most attention on them.In post 537, Iecerint wrote:Another example of lolTriforce: I voted Amrun in my very first post, but was criticized for the implied-late timing of my vote for her.
What was that you said about ignoring context?-
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So, you just acknowledged that Nuwen and we actually seriously think you're scum.In post 541, Iecerint wrote:Parama is not in this game...?
Pedit: Whoa, people seriously think I'm scummy? This is a legitimate shock to me. I think I'm totally obvtown. Like, I've been really pleased by how naturally this game has felt for me.
I mean N = 2 but.
Which implies that we're legitimately hunting for scum.
Which implies that we are town.
Yet you think that we're scum with Axxle.
Yay more cognitive dissonance.-
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Yeah, ignore that--kind of got carried away and misread that, but you're right.In post 552, Iecerint wrote:
More like "be sure the accused is made to defend himself."In post 542, Triforce wrote:
Welp. Better not let the accused defend himself.In post 537, Iecerint wrote:I do not want the Axxle wagon to derail before Axxle returns.-
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In post 551, xRECKONERx wrote:Triforce posts are so full of misinformation and misrepping that it would take a lifetime to actually sift through and explain to you why you're so alarmingly wrong in most everything you say
so instead I choose to spend five seconds making fun of you-
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My understanding is that she was basically agreeing with us that the way Reck called Grimm town is scum-kissing-obvtown's-ass.In post 562, Iecerint wrote:
You posted this, and you're voting Reck, so I assumed the implication was that Reck was scum with Grimm.In post 556, Amrun wrote:I have a town read on Grimm, but the way reck said it struck me as off -- this could be a tone/Internet thing, though, not sure.
If it was not your intent, please make your intent more clear. <3-
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The same way we can "seriously believe" that Iece is scum, even though we are apparently scum.In post 575, Amrun wrote:In post 560, Iecerint wrote:Amrun, please stop trying to build a scumteam around your mistaken impression that reck is scum.
You know, in hindsight this really bothers me. How can I have a "mistaken impression" that someone else is scum if I am scum?In post 564, Gammagooey wrote:@amrun- not strong enough to care about them right now. don't feel like specifying which way they're leaning.
why do you ask?
YEP. Iece has now passively admitted that two of his claimed "scumreads" have legitimate suspicions.-
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Can you explain what language you are referring to?In post 580, Iecerint wrote:categorically-misleading language usage.-
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This seems like a complete non-sequitur. You're going to have to spell this out a little more before we can respond.In post 584, Iecerint wrote:
I'm going to just hope/assume that a different head posted this and you aren't sharing your posts with one another?In post 565, Triforce wrote:
My understanding is that she was basically agreeing with us that the way Reck called Grimm town is scum-kissing-obvtown's-ass.In post 562, Iecerint wrote:
You posted this, and you're voting Reck, so I assumed the implication was that Reck was scum with Grimm.In post 556, Amrun wrote:I have a town read on Grimm, but the way reck said it struck me as off -- this could be a tone/Internet thing, though, not sure.
If it was not your intent, please make your intent more clear. <3
Now that we've established that Amrun's intent was unclear, and Iec interpreted her intent differently than we did, how were we being "accomodating" to Amrun?-
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Point of clarification: are you being sarcastic or are you acknowledging that we both had valid interpretations of her post?In post 597, Iecerint wrote:Oh.
"I have a town read on Grimm and it is lovely to say that Grimm is town due to its accuracy; however, Reck proclaimed this true fact in a suspicious fashion, and it was NOT lovely."
OK.-
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VT claim + no real effort to defend himself is not an AxxleScum claim. This is very clearly coming from town.In post 605, Axxle wrote:I'm going through the thread now. I assume a claim is wanted: I'm Chamber's Face Looking Exactly the Same Upside Down, Vanilla Townie.
PEdit: I wasn't checking the thread because I'm at work and there's a lot of pages. I think I mentioned I was away for most of yesterday in my last post.
You folks can start your white knighting arguments now.-
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What alleged scumslip are you talking about? Do you mean the thing where you claimed that because someone in the hydra called you wrong D1 that we can't agree with any of your reads at any point? Because we already explained how that argument is beyond terrible.In post 612, MattP wrote:1) Triforce STILL HASNT REFUTED MY PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE SCUMSLIP ON THEM
So if you're actually still clinging to that nonsense, you really need to step up your game. We already responded to it. There was like a two page discussion about it and then you randomly dropped it.-
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When you apply context, the comment about you being wrong applied specifically to your ReckTown read. Quadz had moved on from Trollie and was going after Reck at that point. His comment about you being wrong was a completely separate train of thought from his earlier suspicion of Trollie.In post 619, MattP wrote:Look at THOSE POSTS and go ahead and refute my point without calling me FACTUALLY RETARDED-
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At this point, Matt, you're talking to all of us.
Glork made the mistake of trying to defend Quadz without understanding what Quadz had said. Glork had even posted at the time that he hadn't read most of Pages 6-12. That was a mistake.
With Quadz's parents visiting over the weekend and all of us having different works chedules, the Triforce never really had an opportunity to sit down together and discuss the game until this afternoon, when we all realized we agreed that Iece is scum. That's when the posts stopped being "I, him, her" and started being "us." At that point we were focused on how each of us felt Iece was scum and decided to post about it, and the earlier 'scumslip' discussion was forgotten.-
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Why?
Considering you doubt its purity, why are you voting for someone off the wagon? WhoIn post 749, ActionDan wrote:
I was under the impression that that wagon was more or less purely the result of town (as in all town) players coalescing around a lynch. However I doubt its purity now.In post 740, Beethoven wrote:why are you defending the Axxle lynch so hard?onthe wagon do you think might have been scum behind the mislynch?
Nuwen, in light of Axxle's flip, what do you think of the reasoning you used to accuse him and the subequent flashwagon on him? Who are the towns who legitimately agreed with you, and who was jumping on the opportunity for an easy mislynch?-
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Amrun...who's the only person voting for someone in response to being voted? (hint: not you)In post 776, Triforce wrote:lolomgus-
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You should probably take another look at who Reck is voting for and stop being so stupidly egocentric.In post 790, Amrun wrote:Well Reck is scum. So that's hardly surprising. But if you were calling him on omgus, I will have to disagree since we were cross voting most of yesterday as well.
Preeeeeeeetty sure Gamma's town.In post 809, BBmolla wrote:^Can someone read that guy for me
Hi welcome, please stop answering questions for your scumbuddy. Reck is a big boy. He can answer for himself. Also, your jump onto the AD wagon is super terrible.In post 810, Kublai Khan wrote:Actually, it looks like xRECKONERx is calling you town. Scum don't want people to BE scum, just look like scum.
CES, what's your read on Beethoven?-
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Maaaybe Nuwen was thinking about who might be scum on the wagon because we, you know...asked her?In post 864, BBmolla wrote:
She was scum on the wagon, thought to herself "Oh I should try to look town by 'finding the scum on wagon'." She then provides 3 possibilities for mislynches.In post 859, Amrun wrote:
Plz turn this into EnglishIn post 843, BBmolla wrote:No, but I think the reason she is even thinking about it is because she was, and I think the reason you're defending her is you're her buddy.
@reck: ok I buy that.
"No, but I think the reason she is even thinking about [scum on the wagon] is because she was [scum on the wagon], and I think the reason you're defending her is you're her buddy."-
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Ok a couple of things:
Re: Gamma...Amrun-Town: she has a demanding, self-absorbed nature (uh, I guess specifically posts 167, 352, +Iece interaction, etc) that indicates that she's not even considering other people, which is something scum inherantly do--she's focused on what she thinks is important as opposed to a typical scum nature of "let's make sure we leave our options open while pushing our agenda."
Amrun-Scum: the way she went V/LA but still contributed while not really contributing anything isn't exactly pro-town? This is a bit pointless because we feel as though anything that could be scummy from just anyone, is town from her because it's Amrun (see: Weather Mafia II and her Team Mafia game for our references to this behavior)
Re: Beethoven...we're not interested in answering that question at this time.
Re: KK's reads...ironic? Surprisingly enough we agree with Reck's response.
There are a few people worth lynching today, but no one really stands out anymore. Taking a better look at just today after ~plans~.
unvote-
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WE WERE ALL WORKING/VOLUNTEERING SORRY
But while I'm here:
@Also...Reck, can you give you opinion on Zdenek, please?
@Nuwen...please explain your Iecerant scum-read?
@Zdenek...what about our case on Iecerint do you like?
@Gamma...do you realize that we're not "refusing" to see Amrun as town? We followed along with your semi-bullshit leading questions because we're not stubborn enough to think we're infallible (ok 2/3 of us aren't ), and had we asked you to do the same thing on anyone you read as town because of meta, you would had an equally hard time trying to convince yourself differently. It's bullshit to say "wow I can't believe theytriedto see this person as scum [because I asked them to] and then didn't."
@BBmolla...surely you have other options/scum reads?
Also, we have a post we meant to post yesterday, so that should be up when it's not on a different account.-
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Triforce Goon
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EBWOP from before: "we're not 'refusing' to see Amrun asscum*" not town.
We personally went through all of her posts, but wasn't about to make a PBPA from both a town and scum-Amrun perspective. I'm not familiar with Amrun scum at all, so why would I think specifically "oh this is obviously Amrun-scum." Again, we referenced two games that we've been basing our experiences off of. Now, if you'd've asked us to specificallycomparean Amrun-scum game to her play in this one, we can understand that being a much more realistic request.
You also admit that you're convinced of your Reck-read based off of how he normally plays as the opposite alignment of how you read him now. Again, none of us can think of a single Amrun-scum game (without doing research of past games), but Glork and singer can pull at least two games of paralleled Amrun-town play off the top of our heads.
What was thepurposeof seeing if we could disagree with our natural read? Were you hoping to change our minds through this?
Another point: what would be our motivation for defending Amrun as scum?-
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Triforce Goon
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Oh yeah, Zdenek, we haven't voted again because we were going to review the beginning of D2 first and just really haven't had time, yet.
The reason we called BBmolla out for not voting is because he's all over the place and not the kind of person to not place a vote. He made one "ok maybe you're town, unvote" post, with no follow-up. His reasoning makes sense from a generic town perspective, but we would've expected at least a little pressure on some of his "who knows" reads.-
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Triforce Goon
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We would, as well. We have ~thoughts~.In post 1171, Amrun wrote:That's a really good pick up on contradiction Re: Nuwen. I didn't catch that.
I'd like to see KK's response to that.-
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Triforce Goon
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Triforce Goon
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