Mini 1474: Desperado's Revenge (Game Over)

[N64Lord]

/confirm

[N64Lord]

There is absolutely no reason to listen to their bitching- Rhade
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber
Totally Describes the mindset of RVS
VOTE: evilpacman18

[N64Lord]

Holly and company nod their heads seriously, doing what they can to move the foolish plot along.- Blast Corps
mnemoic think scum is trying to become lynch proof by claiming jester, don't take RVS seriosly.

[N64Lord]

You couldn't throw a grape; into the ocean- Chick Hearn NBA Courtside 2

We should use more time to find out if any of us turn out to be lurkers, and to ensure people give their opinion on the jester. Mnemoic only did an omgus vote, but post 19 and 20 gave radiant a perfect window to force a discussion. theomancer is ready to stick with radiant, but I think its barking up the wrong tree....

[N64Lord]

I need sweet, sweet, mouth-watering caaaakke! Ohhh...mmm..ohhh!!. Delicciouuuss!!!!!-gourmand guy, Paper Mario

Our activity is falling off, and when I look at theomancer's reaction to radiantcowbell; that gambit makes it extremely easy for people to make fluff posts, since there's a lot of easy anti town reads coming from this, and theomancer is even willing to make sure he brings my questions back to me, just in case he's accusing of tunneling on the jester. mnemoic's omgus is brought up for no clean reason whatsoever, but I don't think mnemoic will provide much information; especially if we allow people to demand justification of RVS.VOTE: theomancer Just think that the omgus was basically a normal random vote, except directed at a player who felt the need to kickstart the game with a pre-game claim followed by a strong vote, which makes it possible for oppurtunistic players to tunnel. This is what I expect from mnemoic based on meta.

I want to hear from people about theomancer and radiant, not more fencesitting, self aware, neutral, fluff posts. And don't flake out of the game, it's not a prod race.

[N64Lord]

Welcome to your favorite game of answers and questions- Jeopardy

For theomoaner's questions, posts 19 and 20 have me saying "out of the blue" that mnemoic thinks radiantcowbells is scum trying to get lynch immunity, as well as you questioning mnemoic's stance on a vote that hadn't been based off of logic. Then radiant drops post 24. To be fair the two posts don't make discussion since the two answer each other nicely, but it did prod radiant into fakequoting.

I then say you are barking up the wrong tree> Because what you had said up to that time on radiant was; it's a scum gambit (In three different posts)! and with 44 and 46 you still don't actually put forward a direct question so that radiant/observer can actually prove the hunt, instead you ask this, and give radiant a pretty clear option of response. It actually feels like coaching to me.

As for LAL, it depends on the follow up to the lie. If it's a reaction fish we should be seeing analysis of the reactions it raised, so far all I've seen is an attempt to begin distancing from anti-town behaviour.

@ But N64, radiant made anti-town posts on day 2 and 3 when he wasn't fishing!
I'm answering the questions with a response, not pasting people's quotes to explain why I think the questions are unnecessary.(Like some people)
I want to know what JJcoolpants and feel it expect radiantcowbell to do.

[N64Lord]

I've played a game with Device before he... wasn't very useful to be honest. He acted scummy then claimed doctor when under pressure and got himself lynched the next day when he told us he protected one of the players he wanted lynched.

The asshole of the universe-Michael Leroi, Shadow Man

Feel it sets an rvs vote, but then tells radiant that his reaction to mnemoic is too extreme, the point of random voting, is to generate content, and cutting support like this cab allow scum to ignore pressure votes... they know it won't go through. When the town's attention is cowbells and theo, he needlessly brings up mini 1474(ongoing), discrediting mnemonic, who he had defended, and getting him out of a commitment, should he become the focus of a wagon later.

Well, very early the game estimates but;
JJcoolPants- You seem town to me, making frequent posts, generating content.
RadiantCowbells- I think he's playing a town gambit
sthar8-town
theomoaner- He gives me scummy vibes, his scumhunting feels weak and forced.
Radioactive Wolf- Gonna look OMGUSy but he's made two posts, one confirming and another voting me without an explanation, either scummy or bad town play. Will have to see more to be sure.
Everyone else has felt null/not posted enough.
VOTE: theomoaner

He does not bring up the posts that made him feel this way about the players, and uses fairly obvious standards of town and anti-town, notably, he seems to buy into Town radiant cowbells, even though he hasn't said one thing for or against at this point. I'm going to count the radiocative wolf thing as fluff, its not something worth discussing at the time of this post.

Overall, he's a little too self aware about cutting his options and he really needs to notice the main wagons.
@sth4r I'm in a hurry, but the main fluff posts(or parts of posts) are flench's first vote change, theomoaner and others noting how oppurtunistic it was without follow through on his scummy behavior, feel it bringing up mnemoic when town was focusing elsewhere, and people's response to that. I couldn't find your other question when I looked in your ISO.... If it's important, please refresh me.

[N64Lord]

I'm going vacation/limited access until the 19th, I will be unavailable for the rest of today as well.

[N64Lord]

That's right! It's Boss Time!-Lunar, Mischief Makers

I was away longer than I meant to, but during that time, you people got in a theory argument... the limit is one per game and we've already decided it should be on radiantcowbell's way of promoting discussion. Also during that time, some people dismiss the cases on theomoaner, radiant cowbells, and mmnemoic as contrived and not soundly grounded in fact, without pushing on to the people who made these wagons. I find that non-commital, especially when I see that the new "wagons" are being built in no direction whatsoever. @theo, would you say sth4r or evilpacman, which one is being more self conscious? @ jon_h64 Do you think theomoaner's town read's are likely to be discarded at the drop of a hat?
@non lurker Are feel it and flench some kind of hydra?

[N64Lord]

Don't shoot the food!-Gauntlent Legends

I just noticed I only decalred v/la in this game and not on my profile so I've been evicted from two other games.....
I'd bring up posts related to pointing out scummy behavior and not following through, but It was only true at the time, since as o tnow flench, lucky2u, and feel it, are receivng more attention..... I don't understand how a wagonless game gets town information. I'm starting to see lucky as a more self aware flench, but that's what I always say to players who want to sheep but can't find anyone worth trusting, flench shouldn't votehop to see something stick, and if he claims it was a reaction fish I'm going to vote him without exception. I feel like the majority of theo new posts, and the content of some old posts are towny, but then I see the rest of his posts, especially u"elaborate please" posts as really artificial. But that's just nipick.yUNVOTE:

[N64Lord]

As for whether someone as lazy as you can rescue the flea bitten members of his own family, and restore his pointless banna hoard, I'm in doubt. I'll help you with your silly 3-D adventure.-Cranky, Donkey Kong 64

Feelit looks better than no-lynch to me, since he'scoasting, and looks like he's going to slow down people's reads on the other lurkers(assuming we wait for his defense posts before vting them). I don't know where Aj the Epic's conclusions are coming from, so I'm going to watcch him until I can make sense of it. I do agree that town has to reach some kind of compromise, and feel it seems worse than flench in my opinion. Expecting luck2u to drop a bombshell as to why town is going in the wrong direction. without evidence of course.

[b/]

feel it[/b]

[N64Lord]

Your lava bath is ready-Admiral Razorbeard, Rayman 2

Fixing my earlier vote failVOTE: Feel itHere's the most important of radiactive wolf's posts.

Re: the Feel It vote

From the few posts (ISO's #0 - #6; ISO) I saw from FI, I felt like he was trying too hard to be nice and not step on anyone's toes. He also posted pretty frequently without really saying much (scum are more likely to post frequently in the early game to grab cheap townpoints).

Radioactive Wolf- Gonna look OMGUSy but he's made two posts, one confirming and another voting me without an explanation, either scummy or bad town play. Will have to see more to be sure.

Yeah, I agree. That looks very OMGUSy. Instead of awaiting my explanation, it seems to me like you automatically label me "scum" or "bad" based on my post count or the circumstances of my posting on a Sunday night when I'm really, really tired (neither of which are alignment indicative in the least).
Looks like we've got a mini-wagon going on theo, though, so let's look at that...
Yeah, this is a pretty poorly founded wagon. And I don't like Feel-it's participation in it (as JJ already noted, there's really not much substance behind it; what exactly felt "forced"?)

Vote stays

Here radiant explains why his first read through made feel it leap out at him, and how feel it tried to immediately switch focus to him, which seemed to be a bit of a stretch to me, he also tries to get justification from theomoaner's wagon , which was lacking at the time.

Right now I think everyone's reads are aimed in the wrong direction and people should stop recklessly voting.

Hello EPM. Nice to be playing with you again.
... and I suspect you drew scum this time around.
That last post pretty much said close to nothing (not taking a clear position on the theo wagon is most notable). In particular, I don't like the sentence I quoted since I pretty much read it as a way of shutting down discussion.

Also, I can't help what kind of modding decisions Desperado's making and I'm certainly not going to alter my play style because of them.

Radiactive hints that EPM may continue to lighten pressure without taking a stand on any wagon's and is trying to prod EPM into joining the discussion.

Alright, I'm back.

This post really, really bugs me.

I'm not feel-ing (pun) the theo or Cowbell wagons. Both seem opportunistic to me, like they'd be easy to defend as mislynches on day 2.

He criticizes both of the leading wagons, even going so far as to say that they are

opportunistic

, but does not name any names or attempt to do wagon analysis beyond that point. Throwing out broad generalizations about wagons like this without giving specifics is a classic scum tactic (makes it look like they're "taking a stance" on something without, you know, really doing it).
...and that throwaway "pressure vote" is just awful.

Personally I am a fan of a EPM or Radioactive wagon today.

I don't think they are a team but I'm pretty sure one of them is scum.

I don't have history with Radioactive but I have a history of playing with semi hostile players that always end up being scum. EPM... he's just bad.

Justify the bolded statement, please.

So that we're absolutely clear here, I am absolutely and unequivocally serious about pressuring lurkers to contribute. The logical conclusion to that is, in fact, that I will attempt to lynch a lurker day 1 if they cannot contribute anything real to the game. I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that pressuring lurkers, even to lynch, was routine and fairly common knowledge, but I'll elaborate on the reasoning.

The site meta has changed. If you have a problem with someone's activity, then ask the mod for prods/replacement. This is far better than just throwing your vote at them because (as you said yourself), not all lurkers are scum.

Look, the leading two wagons are shit. You know it, I know it, a couple of people have commented on it. The cowbell wagon boils down to "Cowbell is playing badly!" which is a null tell, and Theo's mistaking Cowbell's bad play as a scumtell which I've already discussed with him. It would be incredibly easy for scum or bad town to leap onto either wagon, and there's not enough information right now to draw conclusions on anybody's actions regarding them. I'm not saying those posts won't be useful later; there's just not much to go on right now and neither wagon is based on evidence, just like neither is generating interesting reactions anymore. My wagon, however looks really promising right now, and it's always good d1 play to pressure lurkers. The stance I'm taking on that garbage is that there are more important things to spend my time on.

Alright, I'm at a little bit of a loss...

So, you already said that the wagons sucked and that they're really not well founded. And you further state that scum are likely to join them.

What exactly are you waiting for to start getting scumreads on people of either of these wagons?

Radioactive points out that the "foolish" votes on radiant cowbells and theomoaner can allow relatively lurky players to gain credit by dismissing them publicly, without pushing the culprits, who should really be questioned on their intent. Sth3r making another post on how the wagons are weak without reads on the wagons, is a thorn in the side for radiactive, but I don't know why he's more worried about it than exposing the people on them. I think the whole posts is him overreading people taking free townpoints with an out of place lurker vote.

pedit @ Radioactive I made that post as I was reading the ISOs of the players. I'd have to reread his ISO to see the points I liked. I didn't make any notes as I went. I'll get back to you on what I saw.

Yeah, so did I. It's hard to understand for me.

I actually agree with whoever said Flench looks bad. The only justification we got for his current vote is that "his [radiant's] ISO looks bad", which is pretty much the same thing that he gave after he voted me. When pressed for details he either doesn't give any or gives vague ones (like the "trivial arguments" one he gave about me in Post 224). And this most recent exchange with theo is making me think that he's voting first and then making up stuff as he goes along to retroactively justify his vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flench

He's trying to get a response out of flecnc, and wants flench's mindset out in the open.

1. He doesn't seem to find sthar's posting productive and always negatively responds to his analysis.
2. He defends 2 people who everyone else is trying to pressure, pretty much derailing both of those wagons.
3. He didn't respond to my accusation he lied to give a vote to sthar8, who I see as town.

1. So, I have to agree with sthar, or I'm scum? OK...
2. Who are you talking about and what are you talking about? Yes, of course I'm defending EPM, he's a town read.
3. No, I didn't respond to it. Two other people did. And if you read either of those posts I linked, you know why your accusation is just dead wrong.

How you have people defending you absolutely boggles my mind.

Radiactive points out h0w safe this limb is that flench is going out on to vote him, and tries to answer the questions that town, will need.

I fell like radiactive is trying to help town by questioning town's intent on their votes, rather than downright broadcasting that their votes are bad, and feels discussion is better generated in response to questions than constantly checking for cosistancy. I see more town intent than scum intent in him questioning people on their votes instead of hardrailing on his "obvios" opinon on any given wagon wagon. I don't agree with how far he pushes some of his reads, but they seem natural to me. I'm ready to see a lucky2u and feel it scumteam, especially since lucky2u is still content with bringing up anecdotes rather than scumhunting. I see more informaton coming from a feel it lynch though. Flench hasmade bad osts, but they're not coming out at times when a scum agenda could feasibly work. I'll barrage him d2.

[N64Lord]

Civilization ended May 2, 2001-Battletanx

Not sure I like N64 here. He blatantly uses every reason Radioactive has to vote, meaning he can also blame a mislynch on Radioactive. I've actually never seen someone take a case and then quote is and explain it for their own vote. He basically gave radioactive a second vote over actually having his own reasoning.

@aj the epic You're saying that I give out every possible intent radiactive had to out a null read on him when I supernaturally "know" he is town? And you're accusing me of sheeping his vote on feel it?

As for whether someone as lazy as you can rescue the flea bitten members of his own family, and restore his pointless banna hoard, I'm in doubt. I'll help you with your silly 3-D adventure.-Cranky, Donkey Kong 64
Feelit looks better than no-lynch to me, since he'scoasting, and looks like he's going to slow down people's reads on the other lurkers(assuming we wait for his defense posts before vting them). I do agree that town has to reach some kind of compromise, and feel it seems worse than flench in my opinion.

[b/]

feel it[/b]

I don't see feel it's posts opening discussion for town, and the questions he's left us don't seem relevant to me. And he just threw another weightless vote on theomoaner, which isn't town at all. Your case on lucky makes a lot of sense, but I'd rather keep my sights on feel it until he flips scum or convinces me he is town, rather than let anti-town posts off as a null read just a "better" lynch came up/=.
@lucky your scum behavior has had more to do with you not hunting and sitting on the fence when an oppurtunity to talk about a wagon came up, rather than a public attempt to distance from feel it, or for that matter, radioactive and cowbells. If you want to add that to the bad things you've done go ahead and be my guest.

[N64Lord]

It's quiet...... too quiet...-Peppy, Star fox 64

I can't take theomoaner's claim at face value, since a normal one shot BP serial killer could excuse his kill on the same grounds, and after all he's advertising his consistancy in his d1 read either way.
I personally find it more likely that he is vigilante due to some phrasing used earlier.

Looks like there's a serial killer in town.

sthar8 choking doesn't surprise me he seemed pretty town to everybody.

Aj The Epic was a more interesting choice. He said he was gonna push a lynch on me today so I'm sure scum will try and use that line against me.

Pushing the same lynch as yesterday VOTE: theomoaner

I don't like this post, since besides the borderline wifom he also basically claims that he is an easy lynch and that scum will be the ones to start the wagon on him, clearly trying to avoid pressure.

[N64Lord]

@Impetus I'm saying that feel it's posts make me suspect scum on him but *cough* one of the people who defended him did so in a way that makes me think they are a town PR *wheeze*
@evilpacman I contributed to the lynch by making posts against lucky, but he was at l-1 before I was in a state to move my vote, and I wasn't the fastest person to hammer after his claim. Who are you constantly reminding that you are "basically" conf town; the lurkers.... or yourself?
I shouldn't be listening to my imagination when I have the whole ISO of not hunting, dredging up irrelevent stuff, and taking the most likely stand on wagons without bringing anything new to them. VOTE: feel it

[N64Lord]

You don't even have the energy to omgus....your defense is that you're the easy lynch? Again?

I've played a game with Device before he... wasn't very useful to be honest. He acted scummy then claimed doctor when under pressure and got himself lynched the next day when he told us he protected one of the players he wanted lynched.

You bring this up when town is busy with theomoaner and radiant cowbells, and basically disappear after this line of thought dies down.

And how is my posting fluffier than anybody else? What's scummy about me suggesting a 2 scum team with a serial killer? That's a real possibility and the fact you're trying to use straightforward posts like that, along with asking other players about me, suggests you're scum but trying to flip me by testing to see if I'm an easy target and if others will follow you. I'm feeling more confident about my vote the more I see you post.

You justify your vote on theomoaner by claiming that he's framing you, when it's pretty clear that he's actually worried about you putting off ever discussing the town's main wagons. you've basically gone RVS>dredge up mnemoic's meta> and then post a "purely" helpful all before ever really stating your view on the game. Oh well, you can do this instead!

I still stand by my vote of theomoaner. Radiant is hard to read but is leaning town, seems to brash to be scum.

The first post where you contribute since 118, and all you do is put radiant on your town list just off of observations that most town have put out at this point.... and say theomoaner has still been doing whatever you think made him lynchworthy.

If it means anything, I'm town. I haven't bothered saying much because I've lost track of this game in all honesty. I'll be more active tomorrow.

This soft claim? comes when you have very little pressure on you, especially given that the few votes on you at the time are from players who are either inactive or interested in the flench wagon... and in the meantime, you've still done nothing toward finding scum with your inbetween posts.

I've been trying to read and catch but this game is a clusterfuck.

I still don't see these reads as being based off of the individual players posts, and it looks like an attempt to appear active without bringing anything new to the town.

I think the scumteam is theomoaner, RadiantWolf and someone like EPM or Mnemonicdevice.

You say this three times... but only in 398 do you ever bring up reasons as to why they are scummy, and you do nothing to hunt any of them as town.

I would have rather lynched theomoaner, but a no lynch is bad.

VOTE: Flench the only guy town might reach a decision to today.

I think it's okay for a d1 mislynch if you get information out of it, but you had FIVE scumreads, so you have no excuse for giving up on town "realizing" that they were scum.

I'm not convinced Flench is town at this point. He made some weird plays. theomoaner won't get lynched today.

You're keeping your options open on both of them, AND claiming town is not going to lynch "the scummiest player"

VOTE: Lucky2u

I'm not that keen on this lynch but I think overall we need the information it will be bring us and nobody else seems like they're gonna do the hammer.

So someone who you think is town for the last 4 pages, but I'll hammer him even though I think it's a stupid wagon. And what did lucky2u post that you saw from coming from a townie anyway? I never saw a thing.
FLENCH=scum.

[N64Lord]

I obviously meant feel it equals scum, I can't pace myself without a quote.
@ Impetus give me your views on the exchange between theomoaner and EPM.

[N64Lord]

Feelit has not hunted, put off commenting on wagons, given a list that assigns people as scum or town reads without mentioning posts that make them scum/town. I don't want to live in EPM's world where we assume people will make 50 "idiot" posts in a row, I want to make a case against scummy players, and If there is no counter case to make sure the bandwagon dosen't grow too fast... that's a sign people aren't reading the thread.

Anyway, I usually see scum as idiots how assume town will vote randomly, and to that effect keep their options open on lots of players, and Impetus is clearly the biggest culprit here...

I don't know if I'll be on again before the deadline, have a lot of real life things eating up my time at the moment. For what it's worth my scum read on Lucky is decreasing in strength and really I think I want a Feel It lynch still, if not that then either Radioactive or even N64, did a brief meta check and (I think someone brought this up earlier) the gimmick making him hard to understand might actually very much be tactically done as scum.

Feel It, why did you instantaneously assume it was a SK over a vig?

I think I want either a N64, Feel It or RadoiactiveWolf lynch. I need to reread the thread soon first though.

I bring these up because he bends over backwards to "beleive" feelit is town, and in addition to leaving a lynch canidate(lucky2u) as null, when he had made exhaustive posts on every single player and could have reported if anybody expected a mislynch going into it. I feel like I say this every game but... when you have 3-5 scumspects, you shouldn't let the d1 lynch be on someone you are neutral on, especially if they have no connection to any of your scumspects. Also his later reasoning for scum mnemoic is off the wall and ignores the posting history of multiple people.

Impetus, really, do you want this going on again tomorrow. Please read through feelit's ISO and tell me why we (Town) should keep him around. If he'd even make a half-hearted attempt, then I could maybe look for scum elsewhere. His petulant act, and I repeat act is a scum ploy. Or one the worst Townies I had the pleasure to meet.

See I disagree, you seem to be on theory that "Bad play = Scum" when truthfully it doesn't work that way, I think it's very possible that his self vote is him legitimately being frustrated with the game and seeing himself as a distraction and thinking it's optimal to remove him out of the way as stupid as that is. And if we're going on the "Selfvoting = A ploy and act" type of reasoning Lucky selfvoted and flipped town, Flench selfvoted and I have a town read on him so if anything selfvoting probably a mild town tell. Also right now it's less of me being certain that he's town and more of I think N64 and Radioactives slot have a higher chance of flipping mafia so if you think I'm wrong on either try and explain why to me.

If you think feel it is town bring up a better reason than "selfvoting is now a towntell". I'm starting to think that I was the only person who expected lucky2u to flip scum, and I just want to know why you people won't argue against something, but assume you can take credit for knowing a player's alignment after a mislynch?

Regarding radioactivewolf...
I see his vote and argument on sth4r as natural based on progression of the thread and I liked how the questions he gave people would get discussion and punish people for vague behavior, but his last few posts were an awful downward spiral.

pedit @ Radioactive I made that post as I was reading the ISOs of the players. I'd have to reread his ISO to see the points I liked. I didn't make any notes as I went. I'll get back to you on what I saw.

Yeah, so did I. It's hard to understand for me.

I actually agree with whoever said Flench looks bad. The only justification we got for his current vote is that "his [radiant's] ISO looks bad", which is pretty much the same thing that he gave after he voted me. When pressed for details he either doesn't give any or gives vague ones (like the "trivial arguments" one he gave about me in Post 224). And this most recent exchange with theo is making me think that he's voting first and then making up stuff as he goes along to retroactively justify his vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flench

"ëarly D1" flench had 25 posts of sheer scummy awfulness, yet this disjointed agreement vote is all he could come up with. And he never fleshes it out later, instead he gets in arguments over how his earlier posting was town-play, under very, very light pressure. I looked into town reasons for his voting history earlier, but what he says about flench in this post... only the tip of the iceburg, and easy to pull out of in case something came up.
I'd really prefer an active player in this slot, so I can see what associations he makes, especially since we're going to be 1 away from mylo for the rest of the game....

[N64Lord]

BBC code hate me.
Impetus is scum with feel it, discuss.

[N64Lord]

Also opinions changing from the 2nd to the 4th post is not scum, who always try too hard for consistency.

@ EPM you're calling me out for being inconsitant, now when you said this earilier.... Also you accuse me of "ömgus" for making a case against impetus, who presumably has an intent vote on me? That's anti-logic.... Feel it has a medium-large post count, and has done more than not contribute, he also threw weak suspicion at people just to fish for waht would stick, and I can't see the process of how he changes his suspicion out of his posts. I'm going for easy lynches? Four people have town reads on impetus, and feelit is active enough to make efforts to scumhunt or open up viable discussions. I'm assuming that the other people who've done "what feel it is doing" are mmnemoic and flench? That's a fair accusation, but I had to defend town mnemoci from a mislynch in our last game together, and his posts very similiar, also they give you an idea of how his thought process shapes out, and I don't see his posts coming at times when a scum agenda would be viable, such as when someone gives an awful response to a question or when a wagon is first defended.

flench made awful posts during early day 1, but then became towny by making logical pursuits, The most suspicous thing is that the wagon on him ended with him as a null read to most of the participants, where a town backed wagon really ought to have kept pushing until he flipped scum or convinced them of town... I'll have to reread that...

I see Impetus backing down when you made the first hard vote on me as the most scummy thing that's happened on d2.
@Impetus I made an early case against theomoaner d1 because I didn't like the reasons he used for voting radiant, later, I looked at the intent of his posts, and really he tries to get people to discuss things or break down how they built their case, so I unvoted him as a town read. Finally, he claimed credit for a death, which is kinda too bold for scum to do, if it were a gambit regardless, I would need to know if he felt the need to re-justify his claim again under the pressure of discussion.

[N64Lord]

It's nice to see that the replacement queue is active.
@Feel it you could have called titus out for not having a better reason to suspect radiant cowbell than active lurking, especially if he's just been over the early posts.
I have a gut scum feeling about NSIn. I don't like the mmnemoic wagon. It's a paper wagon, basically giving everyone on it a go ahead to put the others down as oppurtunist scumspects.

[N64Lord]

I looked at flench's case on radiactive wolf, and I saw
In his "full reads list" he calls him scum for using a joke in a vote change that was obviosly designed to let town know he found EPM's posting productive since his earlier read.
He calls out radiactive for derailing the EPM and radiant cowbell "wagons" when the only comment he put on either was this nonsense(cowbells had posted within 16 hours before)
, which was actually in response to him being put under pressure.

I mean it's not exactly a hard argument to make that Radiant's posting has been spotty all game, starts with the crazy posts, then goes defensive, then not really anything. I see mafia starting with gambits all the time because it's a fun and risky way to start. I don't like that he went quiet from being so active.

The only way to tell that e's neutral on cowbells(rather than ready to see cowbells as town) is that his next posts are all intended to get him out his wagon by scumhunting wolf. I didn't read radiaoctive as dissmissing sth4r's initial content posts outright, and honestly I was suspicous of sth4r when I first read them, but it was pretty clear that we needed to let him settle. Flench then accuses radiactive of tunneling on him, which no one other than flench ever found support for. He made some good calls and got some disussinn out of people leading up to the lucky2u lynch, but come day2, he's managed to top the the reason for the first wagon on him.

[N64Lord]

@ feel it I don't know whether you're accusing titus of buddying with mnemoic (impossible due to his activiy level) or EPM, but regardless you're stretching his posts to make your case on him work better. do you have any thing to bacak up Nsin's slot being scum?
@Titus, I don't understand the "situation" where town would make the guy pushing a wagon they had sheeped seem less credible, since it would make both of their votes too soft to pressure scum.
Still waiting for radiant cowbells forthcoming case on flench, and Nsin to slap himself into sense.

[N64Lord]

Flench is painting someone (making a case against him) as being scum by taking their posts super literally and claiming a desperate lynch all liars. It's fairly clear that the slip that slandar dosen't care about is whether or not you meant to imply knowing that feel it was scum. your call for me to reduce pressure on your own vote target is what slandar finds scummy apart the post.
Also this whole sequence is the exact thing you used on radiactive wolf to get rid of your pressure mid d1. And it's equally ill-founded and scummy.

It's pretty clear that the mmnemoic wagon is stupid at this point, and feel it being on it dosen't make his farily limited scumhunting behavior ring true to me." The town is divided on the lynch", if he is town he's not going to get anything done. Impetus belief in radiactive-scum does not mesh with his anylasis on d1, and I'm a little suprised that he let theomoaner off the hook for a kill that he had strong feelings about. VOTE: flench L-1 and claim, sheesh, If it gets any closer to deadline slandar may actually have to post by post on mmnemoic's content posts. I'm not even sure that would be enough to sway radiant cowbells though....

[N64Lord]

I get to a learn a lesson about reading the post preview and taking trips out of state without notifying the mod at the same time. JOY.
/replace out

[N64Lord]

@desperado slot retained

My gut feeling on Nsin was based on me only being able to imagine a very shaky radiant-scum anylasis, and now that Nsin has put a noncommital vote on mnnemoic, I'm even more eager to hear a content post from him.
@feel it/EPM what are your feelings on titus? Especially the change in his reads as he finished reading through the thread?
I got mnemmoic and flench vote count mixed up....

[N64Lord]

@Feelit, I can wall device's contributions. The statement is true so I don't see the rationale for a device train and said so. That's not buddying.

@Slaandaar, I feel that Feelit is scummier, so my vote will stay there. I don't see why I have to jump to your train on your say so. Feelit's post was particularly timed to try and implant the suggestion I am buddying, which I am not. Given the choice of scums, I will go for the deadlier of the two unless I know that lynch won't sail.

I'm assuming your current vote on mmnemoic was to pressure him into answering your question/being more productive but now that it has warped into l-1 (in 10 posts!)
Do you see a reason to vote device that includes more than his last few posts, and if not, where did these votes come from. Scum? Misguided Town?

@EPM What do you think about the people on this wagon;I'm seeing feel it isn't doing anything he didn't do d2 , but I can't swallow both Nsin and radiant having spotty playstlyles and conclusions on who is scum.

Feel it and Nsin are ignoring/dismissing 764 which town should address in their vote, since it blatantly undermines the wagon if you really think he's scum, and should be a warning flag as to mmnemoic being town.

[N64Lord]

I don't want to amished on TIP, but he's being really bizarre and I feel like he's crediting his town reads that they didn't post.
I'm getting the feeling that he's trying to touch up some of town's disagreements with EPM in an attempt to see if he's mislynch material. I'd like to no reasons for having a town reading on Nsin, since he hasn't posted much or anything really thought provocting. Feel it's play has gone to the toliet, and mmnemoic has missed the point of posts directed at im. Overall, another 48 hours of town being lazy.
@Radiantcowbells does your case on mmnemoic include an attempt to mislynch someone with a vote and argument that is beleivable enough for town to follow it, I'm more concerned with people wifoming on the night kills at a time when town is falling off in activity.

[N64Lord]

@Feelit, I can wall device's contributions. The statement is true so I don't see the rationale for a device train and said so. That's not buddying.

@Slandaar, I feel that Feelit is scummier, so my vote will stay there. I don't see why I have to jump to your train on your say so. Feelit's post was particularly timed to try and implant the suggestion I am buddying, which I am not. Given the choice of scums, I will go for the deadlier of the two unless I know that lynch won't sail.

I don't like that your vote on mmnemoic came without you having any turnaround, with a wall of contributions and your earlier explanations of mmnemoic is a bad lynch, I get the feeling that you see him as town. So for you to vote him with a single reason, that mmnemoic actually addressed seems really artificial. If you currently think mmnemoic is scum... you can tell us why you saw him as town, which of his posts were warning signs that you might have to read him in another light, and how the same wall of town posts(assuming you ever made him) could actually have scum intent. If you think he's town, please argue with the people on his wagon so they can lynch someone who has made more scummy posts than null ones.

@ TIP I just wanted to know if your strong town read on Nsin was based on something I'm not seeing (previous games, similiar thought process) since in order, he voted radiant, asked if anyone wanted to know about, hammered (still not saying anything about anyone), laughed at mmnemoic bringing up Saki to you.. and also wavering between Feel it and mnnemoic... At best it's null, and at worst it's scummy... It isn't worth a town read of any kind

Will bring up mmnemoic's contributions myself after I have proof he's not flaking...

[N64Lord]

I'm seeing Nsin's vote switch to feel it as a direct response to EPM, and his vote going back to mmnemoic as him seeing radiant cowbells(and others) preferring a mmnemoic lynch.

I'm still down to lynch Feel It. Nothing in the vote counts says they can't be on scum. In fact, of particular interest is the lucky wagon, which has three dead town on it, me who is town but you don't know that, Flench in the scummiest spot possible, (how did we miss that) and RC who I'm reading as town but I guess could be scum. I'm leaning to Flench and Feel It being the two scum on that and then N64 being the one off of it.

I don't consider a "let's see what'lll pick up steam" attitude to be pro-town.
@ Titus I'm seeing a paradox in "mmnemoic didn't vote flench because it would have lloked oppurtunistic and scummy" and "flench was unable to go for an easy lynch because it would have blatantly given mmnemoic a genuine case to vote him with.

personally I think feel it's accusation here is a bit of a stretch

My vote is on pacman. What the...

@Feelit, I feel device has contributed significantly.

VOTE: Feelit

This is bad, bad buddying.

@Slandaar, voting without reading the thread is dangerous. If town, scum can use that against you to discredit you. If scum, it shows you don't really give a damn who is lynched.

That post by Flench is really bad.

The problem is, if that's a slip at all, Feelit is also scum. I am not opposed to a Flench lynch but feelit is the more charismatic of the two and thus deadlier.

He then does it again by here with agreeing on Slandaar's post, but instead of actually voting for flench, he uses at justification to keep his vote on me because I'm more dangerous. Damn right I'm dangerous I've been calling his predecessor scum all game and he wants me out of the way because I'm his biggest threat. I'm calling it now, I think the scumteam is Titus, mnemonicdevice and Nsin.

and that he gives him self more credit for his role here than makes sense(his case on flench didn't cover any more than the tip of the iceberg, and the wagon was torn down in the middle of flench's scummiest posts)

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go enjoy some Mel Blanc...

[N64Lord]

@TITUS, the posts you directed me too don't give me much of your thought process, so I'd really prefer if you could explain it to me in argument form or something.
Also what with you being the developor of superman 64 and all, I'm obliged to yell at you for no reason.

[N64Lord]

@Titus I'll agree that voting flench would have looked unattractive for scum in mmnemoic's position, but I'm not sold on your other reasons for mmnemoic being scum.

L-1 and claim for feel it.

[N64Lord]

The mod could interpret the no lynch threshold as being the same as normal lynch (4 votes) , so the day might not be over yet.

[N64Lord]

VOTE: no lynch
moving the game along.

[N64Lord]

The double kill came on night one, when theomoaner hit aj the epic.

Why did you vote no lynch, except to ensure lylo? I don't see town ending day if they think they still have mislynches available...

[N64Lord]

Evil Pacman has stretched out his internal debate about mmnemoic's role over two days, making a big show, so I'm getting the sense that he's worried thhat town isn't seeing his opinions as sincere. I'm especially worried since it contrasts with how he spent almost a third of his day 3 votes glued to his target, and how very different he was in the way he changed his opinion on flench( which he admits was partly due to outside pressure from other players)

I'm still down to lynch Feel It. Nothing in the vote counts says they can't be on scum. In fact, of particular interest is the lucky wagon, which has three dead town on it, me who is town but you don't know that, Flench in the scummiest spot possible, (how did we miss that) and RC who I'm reading as town but I guess could be scum. I'm leaning to Flench and Feel It being the two scum on that and then N64 being the one off of it.

It's mostly based on his play today. I mean I defended him as town yesterday. Part of it is PoE because I don't wanna lynch N64 or Feel It as much anymore, and because MD just doesn't feel like a safe lynch. Part of it is trusting my town read who have scum reads on Flench.
If you want something in his actual posting, look at stuff like his 612, which just doesn't read like town play AT ALL to me, it's so opportunistic and contradictory. He's stopped scumhunting except for OMGUS and has only been defending himself lately, I think it's scummy when people lose sight of their main goal as someone who claims to be town, which is finding scum. Aaand yeah. Just vote him.

FOS Evilpacman

[N64Lord]

VOTE: Evilpacman

Fear is such a costly indulgence.

[N64Lord]

I'm of the opinion that up to 893 this thread would have made a bearable movie.

Anyway, even though Evilpacman was consistant with his reads, he never managed to make post outlining my slips, and had the day continued I would have accused him of pushing for an unsubstantiated lynch, suprisinlgy similar to the radiantcowbell and d2 mnnemoic "wagons".

The gut feelings that he had so strongly were due to 1) distancing from the lucky2u lynch 2) dropping my second biggest suspect, Impetus, without really commenting on anything that changed my view on him. 3) Hounding feel it to a lynch over 4 days, and then not celebrating/ showing regret when I finally got people to support me.

[N64Lord]

I'm okay with releasing the scum QT.

It's grown "normal" for weekends to not count toward prod(site-wide), but obvisoly the town itself should punish players who take advantage, as honeslty, its impossible to keep a train of thought credible when the other players jam in 2-4 days of other talk in between.

As a fun fact I played day one from a

serialkiller

vanilla townie point of view since my role pm didn't contain the names of my partners.

The only big contention against the mod would be the defeintion of no lynch. I see that games in the normal queue that don't state that anything about it in setup must allow it, and that it should be the amount of players needed to make a lynch impossible. Meaning that whenever there is an even(2,4,6,etc) player count no lynch should be 1 below normal lynch.

Of course, the mod has final authority.

[N64Lord]

I had to be incoherent day 1, since all of my posts had a tone of finality, I was at risk day1 of being called scum for "strecthing the truth or making a case as I went along", since my reads would have been too strong for the amount of content I was drawing from. Basically, my accustation might not make sense, but you can see that it has a lot of feeling behind it, so you wonder where I'm coming from and re-read the person, not noticing that you've been primed to see scum behavior more easily.