Mini 1479: Perpetual MyLo II - GAME OVER!

[sangres]

hi guys

[sangres]

Which one is Nacho in? That's one scum.

This one.

And, the random numbers did what they usually do when I"m in a player list. Nacho's going to be disappointed when he reads our role PM.

[sangres]

It's Syr's fault. You should see some of the terrible things Rift posts.

[sangres]

adobonation is an awesome hydra name.

[sangres]

Yer but I'd say a random lynch gives us more chance of not mislynching

How so?

[sangres]

Really?

This tip is pretty laid back and isn't caring what anyone thinks of him.

I see newtownTIP using RQS but I don't think I've seen newscumtip use that yet.

a but more serious that what I am used to, though the light-hearted attitude is there, and that attitude is something scumtip Lacks.

what is this new tip stuff?

oldscumtip used RQS: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4947869

Votecount 1.6:

TheIrishPope - [3] - Syryana, MrObvious, Mutleyddmc
sangres - [2] - Cabd, N
Syryana - [1] - GuyInFreezer
MrObvious - [1] - AdoboNation
AdoboNation - [1] - Wisdom

Not voting - [4] - sangres, better than nachos, TheIrishPope, Metal Sonic

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 6 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-08-10 22:32:45)

[sangres]

Numbers people

No.

[sangres]

Which one is Nacho in? That's one scum.

This one.

And, the random numbers did what they usually do when I"m in a player list. Nacho's going to be disappointed when he reads our role PM.

Though this was weird. ffery, can you explain?

I once played 50 consecutive games without drawing a single scum role.

[sangres]

Numbers people

No.

Why?

I didn't sign up for a game of pick a number.

[sangres]

ffery could you sign your posts?

If it's not obvious who is posting, I'll either sign or (more likely) otherwise indicate it's me. I don't think Nacho will sign, but his posting style is unique enough that doubt anyone will have trouble recognizing it's him.

[sangres]

I think mollie is scum

Why?

Votecount 1.7:

TheIrishPope - [3] - Syryana, MrObvious, Mutleyddmc
sangres - [2] - Cabd, N
Syryana - [1] - GuyInFreezer
MrObvious - [1] - AdoboNation
AdoboNation - [1] - Wisdom

Not voting - [4] - sangres, better than nachos, TheIrishPope, Metal Sonic

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 6 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-08-10 22:32:45)

[sangres]

Damn, you caught me. You should lynch my buddy TIP first though.

Fery, you scum?

I had no idea. All this meta diving and reading and weighing and paranoia I do when instead I could just ask.

No.

[sangres]

Nah, I scare Wisdom, because I'm damnably good at meta-reading him.

So you are townreading him?

[sangres]

I've only played that vengeball game with Wisdom. He seems town, but it's pretty thin meta.

[sangres]

GiF's probably town, too.

[sangres]

do me next

We've never played a game, except that chat vengeball game bork ran. I misread you in that one.

Maybe Nacho can sort you. Otherwise it will be a long slog through old game threads.

[sangres]

Hey guys let's lynch sangres and then I can die tonight for being so town.

Nah, in the me first scenario the only way you'll die tonight is because your scum team decides they can carry on without you.

[sangres]

Are you scumreading N?

He's null for me. I'm responding to his scenario of being killed as the even-up town if I am lynched today.

[sangres]

Which one is Nacho in? That's one scum.

ffery messed everything up N I am very, very sorry.

[sangres]

Vote: better than nachos

ffery+Nacho hydra scumreads mollie.

[sangres]

you're townreading mollie?

[sangres]

wisdom are you townreading mollie?

[sangres]

then let me sort her out. if i can sort her out successfully, there's the possibility of a free point on day 1. it's highly disadvantageous for us as scum to pull a 1v1 with mollie on d1 because if we lynch her as scum and she flips town, we're going down immediately during the night or we're dying the next day by lynch, meaning Nacho-scum can't manipulate people and get points for his team like he wants to.

[sangres]

{Nacho, Mara, TIP, Syryana, ?}

I'd say Metal Sonic but two scum bussing TIP seems a little unlikely.

We'll see though.

mollie --> TiP --> MrObvious.

[sangres]

these are ffreyllt-ish reasons why mollie looks scummy. She is looking way too laid back to be town mollie IMO. Town mollie would have freaked because I didn't reply to her first post at me.

I asked Mara about the basis of her read because I wondered if she is seeing what I am seeing.

[sangres]

what she ended up doing was asking ffery why she was ignoring her and then dropping it immediately without sorting her out. that's not mollie freaking out.

[sangres]

Town mollie would have freaked because I didn't reply to her first post at me

which she did..?

Nope.

[sangres]

Given she posted nothing else afterwards, it could just be she didn't have more time for this game at the time. It's not like she continued posting about other things - then you would be able to argue she dropped it, now you can't. You're just forcing a conclusion.

when you hydra with her and you talk with her on a daily basis, you sort of know when she has time and when she doesn't have time.

[sangres]

Given she posted nothing else afterwards, it could just be she didn't have more time for this game at the time. It's not like she continued posting about other things - then you would be able to argue she dropped it, now you can't. You're just forcing a conclusion.

You have no idea the paranoia that I provoke in town-mollie. She would not have walked away so easily. There would have at least been a parting shot.

[sangres]

Yeah, and you, who wasn't even online at the time, know if she had time at that particular moment to post more in this game or not. Save it, Nacho.

you don't need to be online to receive texts, Wisdom.

[sangres]

Given she posted nothing else afterwards, it could just be she didn't have more time for this game at the time. It's not like she continued posting about other things - then you would be able to argue she dropped it, now you can't. You're just forcing a conclusion.

You have no idea the paranoia that I provoke in town-mollie. She would not have walked away so easily. There would have at least been a parting shot.

Oh please. You're not going to push a scumread on someone because they walked away from the thread. Something that could have happened for one zillion reasons.

We'll see how things go when she gets back. Whether she's town or scum, this will get interesting fast. It's a question of interesting in what ways.

[sangres]

Oh please. You're not going to push a scumread on someone because they walked away from the thread. Something that could have happened for one zillion reasons.

why are you running so much interference on us sorting out mollie? are you familiar with each head's relationship with mollie?

[sangres]

And for those who do not know me, I am TheIrishPope! You may call me Irish, Pope, TIP, or by any new nickname! Some people hate me for my spammy posting (over 31 posts a day is proof of this) but I am trying to change this around. I hate RVS. I mean, I

hate

it. I prefer RQS! The first one to post after me will be severely questioned. Can't wait!
PEdit: Ah, so Cabd posts first. However, he is my scum partner, so I will not question him.

This reminded me of when Fatescum's opening in Aggressive Mindgames, where he explained why he was posting in a more conventional style that wasn't spammy or bullshit. Despite the excuses, it's pandering to the crowd, it's not usual TiP and I see no reason why he would have to change his style for this game (a style which he brags about elsewhere) when some of us read him just fine.

we are all ignoring you mollie

I liked this because trolling usually gets good reactions and it's a pretty smooth response.

VOTE: TIP

He's far too interested in the no lynch factor.

There is literally no reason why being interested in the no lynch factor would be particularly scum motivated, meaning that MrObvious is picking up on completely the wrong reason why TiP is scum. This is a distancing tell; scum know they are correct, but don't know

why

they are correct.

yeah ok mara townreading me off a few posts.

rope her up

I sort of liked this from you because you expect people to be paranoid of you forever and ever and ever.

TIP hates RVS. It was the defending his spamming that has me. That's not carefree IMO. Carefree he wouldn't feel the need to defend it at all let alone on first page

I love this and I agree with this and it makes my heart swell with warm mutley fuzzies.

[sangres]

On second thought, TIP might be town. Unlikely to have two scumwagons with 4 votes so early. Though not impossible.

And meanwhile, you are moving me away from mollie even though I have no fucking clue why you won't just let me do my thing and read mollie, and you're moving away from the one and only read that has any possibility of being correct. And maybe call me a little egotistical, but I think that it's strange you're pushing to lynch this hydra day 1 instead of letting me do my thing and lynch scum.

[sangres]

Wrong <3

[sangres]

ffery-reads

Leaning town
GiF - I know what post bothered him and I approve
Muttley
odoboMara - because she saw scum-mollie

Null (pending more data)
N
Cabd
oriole

Scum
mollie
Syr - that post that bugged GiF was guaranteed to bug town-Syr
TiP - what Nacho said
MrObvious - what Nacho said
Wisdom - shallow read of us, chainsaw defense of mollie?

The rest of you need to post enough to at least make my null list.

[sangres]

gah. not oriole, MS. and he's actually pretty close to a town read.

[sangres]

also why the fuck isn't tip voting

[sangres]

^
Fery

He's talking about games I've never heard of in that post. :/

[sangres]

What post bothered GIF?

My answer to Syr's "you scum?" question.

[sangres]

I don't see why that should bother people, and much less how you can base reads on that. It only means you care about how people read your posts, which in turn means you're scum.

Your tunneling is quite shallow. I think we're right about you.

[sangres]

It bothered me because it looked forced.

That's because it was forced. The last game that Syr and I played as not-Rift, he misread me on day 1 and kept misreading me until he finally realized I was town on the last day he was in the game (day before LYLO). Wasn't pleasant, and I'll probably be jumpy for another game or two after that. I spent way too much time thinking about my reply.

The fact that Syr didn't pick up that my answer to him was overthought, though, that calls his alignment into question.

[sangres]

We? Does Nacho scumread me?

You kinda screwed up what was shaping up to be a perfectly good town read in your reaction to his first posts.

[sangres]

Is that a yes?

As of our most recent convo, yes it is. When we were talking about you prior to Nacho posting, I had a slight town read though with the tiny bit of experiential meta I have with you (the short time you were in the Vengeball game), I wanted Nacho's thoughts. he was less (if you will pardon the expression) sanguine, though not strongly leaning scum.

Then you started jumping from post to post, essentially calling each post "scummy because Sangres is scum" even though the data in the thread already in some cases directly contradicted your statements, and perhaps even more hilarious, you constructed a scum motivation for us, "focus on one player", which is anti-scum behavior. Scum need to control and misdirect on the large canvas. I, fferyllt, might have such piss-poor scum strategy on my own. Nacho? Nah.

[sangres]

Sorting mollie is a high priority because she's dangerous if scum and because Nacho and I both are capable of figuring her out. If she's town, awesome, and we move on. If not, then our vote likely won't be going anywhere. We knew we would be putting a vote down before Nacho made his first post because...I know this is shocking...he read the thread and talked to me before posting.

What is your rationale for thining that Syr is scum? And Mara?

[sangres]

As of our most recent convo, yes it is. When we were talking about you prior to Nacho posting, I had a slight town read though with the tiny bit of experiential meta I have with you (the short time you were in the Vengeball game)

Bullshit. There's no way you could infer anything at all from my play in Vengeball or from my early play here, much less that I'm town somehow.

Every post is grist for the mill. I sometimes have tentative reads before then end of page 1. Depending on how much pattern-matching I can do, I may even share some of them. And every new post sheds light on what came before. I change reads in midstream as well. And that's where I am with you at the moment. Your experience with me as a player is every bit as shallow as my experience with you. And it appears that your read on me is a hell of a lot stronger than mine on you.

Then you started jumping from post to post, essentially calling each post "scummy because Sangres is scum" even though the data in the thread already in some cases directly contradicted your statements

How come I've never heard about these "contradictions" yet? Shouldn't you be telling us about them?

I was hoping you'd be curious enough to look back and see what you missed. Last night/early this morning I posted a couple tentative town reads as I was going through the thread for the first time. Nacho posted a chain-lynch list this morning PRIOR to your accusing us of focusing on Mollie to the exclusion of other players. You apparently missed that in your haste to jump on each new post in isolation and cast it as scummy.

, and perhaps even more hilarious, you constructed a scum motivation for us, "focus on one player", which is anti-scum behavior. Scum need to control and misdirect on the large canvas. I, fferyllt, might have such piss-poor scum strategy on my own. Nacho? Nah.

lolno. Surely it depends on the player playing scum, but it's a very common scum strategy to tunnel on a specific player, usually someone no1 else suspects, and ignore the rest of the game. That's exactly what you're doing, and it's not like Nacho to do that as town. As scum however he did exactly that in the one game I've seen him playing scum.

Except that's not what we have done. Now, you are either intentionally cherry-picking our posts, or you are just plain not processing what you are reading. The former is scummy. The latter is close to alignment-neutral but still IMO often a characteristic of scum who know the answers and know what they want to construct.

[sangres]

You've not made any attempts to read any players

. Your reads were based on things like "this player should have been annoyed by x post" and "this player shares our mollie scumread". Those reads are as good as inexistent to me. Same goes for Nacho randomly adding 2 names next to mollie then cooking up some weak reasons.

As for my read on you - you're correct, I don't know you and I cannot read you. That's why I wanted to hear from Nacho - I know Nacho.

Wrong again.

I'm headed out for a while. Hopefully I won't miss Mollie when she shows up again.

[sangres]

Ffery

you're killing my town-read on you

put Nacho on

He's not around atm. Do you want to talk to me? I've got other games to worry about so I don't mind leaving the next while to whenever Nacho can make it.

Unless mollie shows up. She and I need to talk.

[sangres]

these are ffreyllt-ish reasons why mollie looks scummy. She is looking way too laid back to be town mollie IMO.

Town mollie would have freaked because I didn't reply to her first post at me

.

I asked Mara about the basis of her read because I wondered if she is seeing what I am seeing.

I fucking knew you weren't online you dummy

and fery isn't signing her posts which is weird cos she usually does cos I totally thought that you made that post

still catching up

I don't sign my posts so much any more, especially when playing a game with mostly people who know me. If I think it's unclear that it's me, I either sign or do something else that makes it obvious who is posting.

Probably a bad habit, but w/e.

[sangres]

what she ended up doing was asking ffery why she was ignoring her and then dropping it immediately without sorting her out. that's not mollie freaking out.

wtf

I thought I was talking to fery hence why I asked "fery are you getting better at trolling"

I guess she isn't and it was you.

You were talking to fery. What did you mean by that statement anyway? I took it as a joke at the time, but I expected you to engage a little if you thought I was ignoring you.

[sangres]

nacho!

ffery

[sangres]

On second thought, TIP might be town. Unlikely to have two scumwagons with 4 votes so early. Though not impossible.

And meanwhile, you are moving me away from mollie even though I have no fucking clue why you won't just let me do my thing and read mollie, and you're moving away from the one and only read that has any possibility of being correct. And maybe call me a little egotistical, but I think that it's strange you're pushing to lynch this hydra day 1 instead of letting me do my thing and lynch scum.

no. you don't get to say that. your d1 record is not even close to mine or even fery's. you freaking know how bad I am when I am having to face retardedness it messes up my whole game

What is it that Nacho doesn't get to say?

[sangres]

Mollie aren't you supposed to ben in a hydra this game?

[sangres]

I need a walk through on your guys's scum-read on wisdom Nacho/Ffery because I actually do believe him to be town this game

Ok. For me it's the shallowness of his attacks this morning, taking things on a post by post basis with no thought to how our stances had progressed. I also strongly disliked that he jumped to mollie's defense rather than let us engage and sort things whenever we both wound up in the thread together. One thing that really irritates me is players getting in the way of a line of questioning. In this case, even before that line could be established he took sides and did some well poisoning.

Mollie and I have a lot of play history. If she's town this time, I will figure it out.

[sangres]

Ok. For me it's the shallowness of his attacks this morning, taking things on a post by post basis with no thought to how our stances had progressed. I also strongly disliked that he jumped to mollie's defense rather than let us engage and sort things whenever we both wound up in the thread together. One thing that really irritates me is players getting in the way of a line of questioning. In this case, even before that line could be established he took sides and did some well poisoning.

Well

I think that's wisdom just being wisdom.

I actually do think his attack on me for reading him as town within a couple posts is legit, though I do expect him to push me a whole lot harder than he was, especially as scum which is the alignment he prefers.

Does he usually go after multiple people simultaneously to the degree he went after Nacho/me?

I do agree that him defending mollie like that was strange, and that he should have let her do it on her own though I don't think he would do such a blatant chainsaw before his own partner could do so

Could be a chainsaw. Could be a wk. Or, he could be town and maybe our settliing in phase while we figure out how we'll work as a hydra doesn't sit right with him for some reason.

and, when it comes to taking sides, I kinda did the same thing with TIP and Obvious so if you're going to attack him for that, you might as well attack me for doing something similar.

You went after a couple players we read as scummy this morning. it was the similarity of our reads on a few players that have me leaning town on you. I wonder if I'm finally starting to figure out how to read you.

So you find Wisdom's play to be town-looking?



I understand that him getting in the way of your questioning mollie is irritating, but how exactly does that make him scum?[/quote]

[sangres]

Sorting mollie is a high priority because she's dangerous

if scum and because Nacho and I both are capable of figuring her out. If she's town, awesome, and we move on. If not, then our vote likely won't be going anywhere. We knew we would be putting a vote down before Nacho made his first post because...I know this is shocking...he read the thread and talked to me before posting.

What is your rationale for thining that Syr is scum? And Mara?

are you freaking kidding me who made this post

ffery. Are you not dangerous if you are scum?

[sangres]

mollie youre still posting from the wrong account

also ffery was online at the time i think, so what you talking about?

nacho is saying that he posted that

and yes I know fery was around which is why it confuses me that he is insinuating that he made that post

What post are you talking about?

[sangres]

do you even remotely understand why I am fucking freaking out that you are not signing your posts

Are you saying that our posts are hard to distinguish? I've always found Nacho's posts to be really obvious when I've played with him as a hydra or even read through a game.

He mentioned that he sometimes emulates your style in 50, but he has not tried to make his posts sound like me in this game so far.

[sangres]

what she ended up doing was asking ffery why she was ignoring her and then dropping it immediately without sorting her out. that's not mollie freaking out.

wtf

I thought I was talking to fery hence why I asked "fery are you getting better at trolling"

I guess she isn't and it was you.

You were talking to fery. What did you mean by that statement anyway? I took it as a joke at the time, but I expected you to engage a little if you thought I was ignoring you.

you changed speeds

when you have been saying you want to slow down

talk to me about that

This thread moved fast and there was plenty to start analyzing this morning. I'm also playing as a hydra, not solo, which speeds things up because I have someone whose alignment I know for sure to bounce ideas around with

And it's also the game format. With such a high proportion of scum, sorting is in one way a priority, but in another way, it should be like shooting fish in a barrel. And three fish are enough.

[sangres]

Sorting mollie is a high priority because she's dangerous

if scum and because Nacho and I both are capable of figuring her out. If she's town, awesome, and we move on. If not, then our vote likely won't be going anywhere. We knew we would be putting a vote down before Nacho made his first post because...I know this is shocking...he read the thread and talked to me before posting.

What is your rationale for thining that Syr is scum? And Mara?

are you freaking kidding me who made this post

ffery. Are you not dangerous if you are scum?

we have had this discussion

And I have my MS-specific opinion.

eta: so it was you trolling then?

I wasn't trolling. I came in and made my usual RVS-meh appearance and then checked on some other games. I don't know why you asked if I was trolling if it wasn't a joke. There are a couple of questions I asked you earlier including this one - why did you ask me that?

I treated your post as part of RVS. Was I wrong?

If you thought I was ignoring you, why did you drop it that way?

[sangres]

which is something we have talked about wrt hydras

why aren't you listing your reads

I did. ISO me.

[sangres]

and yes nacho has totally been emulating you I find it weird that you don't see this

lol maybe I don't know what my posts look like from the outside. To me, there's a pretty big difference in tone and assurance, though we do both tend to ask open ended and/or tangential questions.

except for the posts where he is unmistakeably nacho

why is this even a thing

Hell if I know. What does it have to do with me trying to figure out your alignment?

[sangres]

I don't understand where you are coming from.

and you are not even remotely trying to work with me

I don't do rvs you know that unless I am in a game where I do not know a bunch of players.

why are you saying I ignored you when I didn't

YOU asked me why I was ignoring you. When I came back to the thread you asked me if I was trolling.

I know you don't usually do RVS votes, but you still post during RVS and usually joke around a bit. Your posts to me were either joking or serious. And it looks like the are you trolling question was serious.

FOR THE 47TH TIME WHY DID YOU ASK ME THAT?

[sangres]

cos I was wondering how you would respond

If you said this before, I didn't see it

p-edit because I haven't seen your earlier answer.

If you thought I was ignoring you why did you drop it?

[sangres]

This mollie vs fecho better not go like xenoblade because that gave me a lot of headache.

It won't go anything like xenoblade. At least one of our alignments is different. I'm leaning both. All this bullshit about being freaked out over who made what post is pissing me off.

Hey mollie did you find my reads list?

[sangres]

Her thinking that it was Nacho instead of ffery in those first posts and not answering because of that is so stupid that I dont see scum-mollie making it up. It's old good lost and silly townmollie.
Also town vibes from 325.

not made up, no

but not every genuine thing is town-oriented, especially confusion as to who is posting when

also, 325 reminds me of a game where I thought mollie was town, where Nacho caught her out as scum via type of AtE she is spewing out

it is also how she acted in a game where she replaced in as scum

I don't recall town-mollie throwing out AtE like that ever

Town-mollie does sometimes throw out AtE.

[sangres]

if you thought that it was an rvs vote then why were you questioning me on what you thought was an rvs but then later wondered if it was an rvs vote

Who are you talking to?

If you're talking to me I haven't said anything about your votes. I assume your votes are serious barring something blindingly obvious to the contrary.

[sangres]

I'm leaning both.

?

leaning that it's not just my alignment that is different in this game.

[sangres]

Not to the extent that I'm seeing in this game

It's the fferyllt effect.

[sangres]

Mara, Poetic Justice micro.

[sangres]

Yeah I'm confirming my townread on molliepop.

I hope you're right because I hate being on a different team from her.

She took this pretty far.

I want to see what Nacho makes of the exchange.

[sangres]

Fery was there, but she didn't get to experience that catfight live.

I've experienced a few others.

[sangres]

VOTE: Cabd

that was weird

Doesn't look weird to me. If Nacho feels better about mollie after he catches up, our vote is likely to go to either Cabd or Syr.

[sangres]

And now ffery basically confirmed they're going to leave mollie alone.

For now. Not exactly satisfied with that exchange. The thing that bugged me most was her comment about me/us not reaching out to her. That's not something I do when I'm scumreading her and she knows it.

Also, I asked her for her reads and didn't get any.

[sangres]

VOTE: Cabd

that was weird

Doesn't look weird to me. If Nacho feels better about mollie after he catches up, our vote is likely to go to either Cabd or Syr.

I actually meant that it was weird to be voting for Cabd in the middle of Wisdom's scumclaim.

That's one of the things I like about GiF. He does tangential stuff that usually makes sense to me when I think about it.

GiF here are a couple of Cabd scum games:

Newbie: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28000

AMOL mini where he was in the goodcop_badcop hydra with ProHawk: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28438

[sangres]

You'll notice in the newbie game that he was pretty aggressive and active. In the AMOL game, they waited a few days until there was some significant activity/bandwagons/etc before wading in.

p-edit o hai Cabd!

[sangres]

You still didn't tell us why you scumread him.

I haven't scumread him. I don't have enough data to read him at all. If that doesn't change then I will vote him because as far as I am concerned Cabd keeping his distance in a game is a hell of a reason to think he's scum.

Are you caught up with the game, Cabd?

[sangres]

Yes. Reads list post forthcoming, I'm current as of now.

Good. I'm ready to compare notes when you are.

[sangres]

then I will vote him because as far as I am concerned Cabd keeping his distance in a game is a hell of a reason to think he's scum

So youll vote a nullread over your actual scumreads?

A Cabd null read? You fucking bet I will.

[sangres]

I'm flattered that you think I'm so dangerous. I guess this is ffery paranoia at its finest.

Paranoia or trust. There's not much middle ground.

[sangres]

So an excuse not to vote Syry or MrObvious - which gives them more chances of being your buddies.

As for not voting me - I bet Nacho educated you that it's not wise to antagonize me.

I am focusing on players I think I can sort first. I have concerns about Syr, but every game we have played so far, he's been town. The difference in this game is that I do have actual concerns, but they are pretty weak looking objectively - he didn't jump on a post he should have, and yet GiF who doesn't have the background to that post saw it as forced.

I'll tackle this read when Nacho is around.

And I'll get to MrObvious when I have a better handle on the players who can be stakes in the ground if I figure they are town.

[sangres]

One of {sangres, wisdom} is probably scum, my conclusion is SvT for that interaction. Currently pulling wisdom meta, but from a skim it seems that this level of aggression is not alignment indicative. He is however, more trying to figure me out, so my lean is on sangres. Hence where my vote is. Nacho is also really starting to scare me because where is he? Between him and ffery they should be yelling "town as fuck" at people all over the thread and they're not.

You know from xenoblade if nowhere else that Nacho tends to breeze in, post up a storm, and then disappear for a while. I think this game will be similar. When I feel like we have some direction set as far as our reads, I'll play more independently. And I think you know that about my play-style as a hydra partner from other games, notably AMOL.

Did you see my reads list? I have players in my town pile. GiF is in the "town as fuck" category. So is "Muttley".

Could you go into a little more detail about Mara? Do you feel like her lack of paranoia about me this time is odd?

[sangres]

Not a lot. Mollie is not a strong scum read now, but I have concerns.

I'm tableing Wisdom because of the tunneling. I have a history of eventually going full-bore paranoid about people who death-tunnel me so I'm damn ghad I have a partner who can help sort him.

TiP's play looks slightly better and doubt we'll vote him today.

You are worrying me because I think that if anyone in this game would get me right you would. And Mara worries me because Mara. I can't parse any sense at all from the games where she reads me as town and the games where she doesn't.

[sangres]

Not a lot. Mollie is not a strong scum read now, but I have concerns.

I'm tableing Wisdom because of the tunneling. I have a history of eventually going full-bore paranoid about people who death-tunnel me so I'm damn ghad I have a partner who can help sort him.

TiP's play looks slightly better and doubt we'll vote him today.

You are worrying me because I think that if anyone in this game would get me right you would. And Mara worries me because Mara. I can't parse any sense at all from the games where she reads me as town and the games where she doesn't.

If you're town, nacho is hella distorting it. Either way, we both know my way of sorting you usually involves metadiving alongside you, and comparing notes.

Something you usually suggest first. Is that an offer?

[sangres]

Wait fery y r u fearing mara

GiF, even when I think Mara is town, I usually am holding back a ton of paranoia. I'm still trying to process the interactions that Mollie had yesterday, including the interactions with Mara.

The easy answer is "Mollie is scum". You are reading her as town. If you are right, then Mara's reactions take on particular significance.

[sangres]

Actually, I'd like to see what happens if we run them seperately and compare notes when done. Which players here do you have zero meta on? We'll find one neither of us has meta on and compare notes when we're done.

I have zero meta with N and was planning to go through some of his games today anyway.

Do you want to look at the same games?

[sangres]

Well, zero except for a chat mafia game, but I can already see that's completely irrelevant to this game.

[sangres]

No. Work seprately, and we'll convene again this evening about it. Trying something a bit different since you're not reeking of town as much as you usually are, this method gives me a bit more data to sort you with.

Cool. I may have my vote on you before we get to that, just so you know.

That ain't the point.
The point is that tippy wagon is still a useless rvs wagon.

TiP's push on Muttley, though. That's actually vote-worthy.

So many scumfucks, so few votes.

[sangres]

No, I don't hate people who play meta based game, I play based on meta myself. I don't meta people I don't know however, because that's useless. Meta comes naturally, through experiences with others. Reading through games you're not a part of is completely different - you only read things the way you want and all you get is a biased opinion. It's only through scumhunting others (or trying to fool them as scum) that you learn how people think and you can meta them later.

Therefore, suggesting such an exercise that I know will have zero productive results only tells me that you give ffery a leeway from the game.

There's enough info in this game to read ffery, yet you pretend there isn't

.

Highlighting this because you're right, but for the wrong reasons. Our eventual flip is going to suck for Cabd.

[sangres]

It was Nacho, and that's not even close to town-Nacho.

Are you ignoring me because I am feeling like scum?

it's highly disadvantageous for us as scum to pull a 1v1 with mollie on d1 because if we lynch her as scum and she flips town, we're going down immediately during the night or we're dying the next day by lynch, meaning Nacho-scum can't manipulate people and get points for his team like he wants to.

It's obvious only from this post that the plan to push mollie was pre-made. He had thought of this defense in case someone spotted what you're doing - he was silly to say it so easily the moment I did though.

I responded quickly because it's something that wasn't at all difficult to respond to. I've thought a lot about how I'd handle mollie as scum, and pushing her early in this setup doesn't really make any sense for me.

lolno. Surely it depends on the player playing scum, but it's a very common scum strategy to tunnel on a specific player, usually someone no1 else suspects, and ignore the rest of the game. That's exactly what you're doing, and it's not like Nacho to do that as town. As scum however he did exactly that in the one game I've seen him playing scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28174
This is how I handled mollie as scum last time. By tunneling the fuck out of her.

Trying to sort out the wisdom v ffery thing. Feels like it's either TvT or TvS but really doesn't look like SvS.

For one, I don't understand why you're approaching the us-Wisdom argument and completely ignoring our attack on ffery. For two, I don't understand why you're looking at the arguments themselves instead of reading us as players which always always always sets off my scumdar.

@Wisdom, dude, you're Town, but step up your game. This is clearly ScumMutley. Did you ever read the sitcom Mafia?

Decently surprised that TiP hasn't commented on our wagon and instead is tunneling on Mutley pretty fucking hard. Usually TiP and I interact quite a bit when TiP is town, but this game he's ignoring me pretty hard. I don't like it.

do you even remotely understand why I am fucking freaking out that you are not signing your posts

If ffery signs her posts, I'll sign mine too! You know how I play my hydras and making the line between both heads isn't really the way I do that.

Nacho is also really starting to scare me because where is he?

Interesting. Why does me not posting in this game make you nervous?

[sangres]

nacho!

thoughts on mollie?

I think mollie is town right now, but I am not sure. She didn't really do anything else as far as other reads go, which I understand but still don't really like, and Andrius who won't manipulate the fuck out of me has not posted.

Decently surprised that TiP hasn't commented on our wagon and instead is tunneling on Mutley pretty fucking hard. Usually TiP and I interact quite a bit when TiP is town, but this game he's ignoring me pretty hard. I don't like it.

Nothing on my seemingly ignoring you this game?

You're not afraid to interact with me as scum.

[sangres]

Mara is townreading me with NO stated reason and that worries me to no end. So leaning scum for that hydra. Mara usually gives reasons for her townreads. '

Just my town reads?

Hmm...


Town:

TheIrishPope

AdoboNation

wisdom

Mutley

Syry
Sangres
Cabd

Scum:

MrObvious

N

btn

MS
GIF

We love you Mara, but some of your reads are really, really wrong.

Nacho's pointed out how my GiF read could be off though.

I'll post an updated reads list in a bit.

[sangres]

UNVOTE

[sangres]

Blended Reads

Town

Muttley - towntowntown

Mara - Nacho says town, and I have been leaning that way despite paranoia. I am happy to put my paranoia to rest

Wisdom - Nacho feels he's town, and I've been coming around to that idea on my own, so calling him town and not worrying about it any more

GiF - town with a lot of footnotes related to my belief that our town games aren't that obscured by being a hydra partner. The footnotes are mostly Nacho's but they make sense to me

Null

N - pending my meta analysis and further discussion with Nacho

Mollie - Want to see some input from her that moves the game forward

Leaning scum

Syryana - could have called him null, but not gonna

Strongest scum reads

TiP - I wondered if scum-TIP would have been relieved for the limelight to go away and not invite it back. Nacho thinks scum-TIP wouldn't know what to do without the limelight. His push on Muttley is terrible. Overall he's pretty passive, though.

Cabd - based on today's interactions and confirmation with Nacho on a couple things, Cabd is a strong scum read. He's basing his scum read on an assumption tha Wisdom and we are tvs rather than doing the work it would take to read us. And he's distanced from interacting with me while making noise about Nacho not being around and us not yelling "town as fuck" every five minutes in a game where the scum are almost at parity with town from the start. Nacho's game presence is almost always sporadic this way, and Cabd knows that. Finally, he's scum-reading TIP but not doing shit about it. Instead he put a vote on us, like that is somehow miraculously going to make it easier to read us.

MrObvious - same as before.

[sangres]

Nacho posts based on when he's available to post. We won't be going after you today unless you do something so spectacularly scummy that it casts TiP and Cabd into shadow.

[sangres]

TheIrishPope

[sangres]

VOTE: TheIrishPoep

[sangres]

A spotlight, like on a theater shage that shines on a performer.

[sangres]

Nacho also mentioned that town-TiP interacts with him a fair bit. TiP's not seeking out interaction.

[sangres]

Right.. He's around when I post sometimes, but hasn't made an appearance or interacted whn Nacho is around.

[sangres]

lol @ scum-me

hey cabd
you're the meta expert, tell me what you think of this!
cos it's looking pretty scummy to me

[sangres]

TiP's not seeking out interaction.

with me
i don't give a shit about any other interactions he's looking for, i'm looking for an interaction with yours truly

[sangres]

Nacho's game presence is almost always sporadic this way

No it isn't. Nacho posts much more as town. No he has just left you post for him while he educates you on who you should "scumread" (your townread on me screams of that)

wisdom please post a case that is less offensive.
"nacho is afraid to post as scum and needs ffery the god-tier scum player to carry him through the fire and the flames" is offensive and stupid. you're convincing yourself based on ridiculous shit about my meta "nacho doesn't tunnel as town. nacho posts more as town." that is not only an EARLY assumption, but an incorrect one. you'll note that yes, I am often more passive as scum because I can get away with it but sometimes am more passive as town because hey i don't have time right now.

[sangres]

If you want more than like... 1 or 2 liners though you'll have to wait till I get off work.

i don't need much. i know tip is scum at this point.
why didn't you comment on tip being scum before?

[sangres]

TIP isn't nearly as engaged and hyperactive in this game as I'd expect from him, and mara not pointing THAT out is weird too.

well here's this
but you're more worried about ME for being inactive?
really man? you know the first rule about being scum is to actively manipulate and not to lurpaderp around and let people who can't play scum tarnish your good name.

[sangres]

man ffery linked me to that game where you SLAM DUNKED the fuck out of tip scum and I expected something similar here.
scum like him in a format like this is fucking crack to me man and it should be crack to you. but instead you're doing whatever the fuck you're doing and I don't like it at all. I would be intensely disappointed if you are scum here because I wanted to be manipulated as scum, I wanted to be eating out of your hands and bowing before you like you're the god of towniness (say something like "Cabd is townier than he was in Xenoblade") and I know you CAN put up a better showing than this but you just aren't and it hurts me. I don't want catching you-scum to be like this, especially since you're probably the god of the scumteam at this point. TiP/MrObvious aren't having the best showing here so you're going to have to pull your fucking scumteam out of the muck and you can't depend on Wisdom's tunneling to help you do that. Because even IF he manages to get me lynched, he's going to be eating out of ffery's/my respective palms and feeling like a dumbass for lynching Nacho/ffery town on D1, and I guarantee sacrificing TiP won't be enough for us to rip apart the scumteam before you manage to mislynch us.

tl;dr step it up either alignment because I'm feeling a little bloodthirsty right now (and also on top of the world because I conquered Windows Vista) so please give me those townvibes that I need to wipe this froth off my mouth and have some sick ffery/nacho/cabd triangulation.

[sangres]

that's your response, cabd...?

[sangres]

On second thought, TIP might be town. Unlikely to have two scumwagons with 4 votes so early. Though not impossible.

And meanwhile, you are moving me away from mollie even though I have no fucking clue why you won't just let me do my thing and read mollie, and you're moving away from the one and only read that has any possibility of being correct. And maybe call me a little egotistical, but I think that it's strange you're pushing to lynch this hydra day 1 instead of letting me do my thing and lynch scum.

no. you don't get to say that. your d1 record is not even close to mine or even fery's. you freaking know how bad I am when I am having to face retardedness it messes up my whole game

my record in general is good enough where i can be upset when i am being pushed as scum because i'm trying to sort you out
when everyone who knows me even sort of well knows that even if i get a tiny tiny tiny scumread on you i am going to sort you out, ESPECIALLY after popcorn.

[sangres]

I don't get nacho at all

I don't get why you're not getting Nacho.

[sangres]

Tip does not feel the same here as he did there. And mara calling him town furthers that tangent.

You didn't think mara was town earlier. Has that read changed, or...?

[sangres]

And yes, I can recognize that TiP's play is different because he is less active than he was in Cold Stone. But how do you expect town TiP to behave in a playerlist where three separate players can read his usual play well? (me, you, Mara, maybe more). Do you expect him to change his behavior because he's finding that people don't like his spammy playstyle? Hell no, you expect him to spam away and be read as town like he knows we can do. But TiP as scum obviously needs to do something to throw off the people that can read him, so he says he's trying a new playstyle while he's just lurking away like a motherfucker and going for easy lynches.

[sangres]

I don't get nacho at all

I don't get why you're not getting Nacho.

Me neither.
That was just my 0.01 sec passive-thought when I read #630.

Now answer my question.
You can skip the first one.

Where has he distanced from interacting with me? He hasn't tried to interact with me at all. Unless you are talking his "somebody pay attention to me" posts when Mollie and I were going back and forth. THAT looked obstructive to our getting each other sorted out if anything.

[sangres]

the "ohhh, I'm changing up my style" is even MORE bullshit when he's still playing normal like he is in this game, so he's changing specifically for us, even though we are familiar with his style. Mara doesn't see this, but you're correct in assuming she wouldn't lie about a TiP scum read; if they are partners together, don't think she would call him town in this specific scenario, so I'm comfortable with her. Meanwhile, you're fence-sitting on TiP-scum even though this is clearly and obviously not TiP-town because you see Mara has not called TiP scum yet so you're wondering if he can slip through the cracks or not.

[sangres]

But your scumreads are all easy lynch too.

Yeah Syr and Cabd are easy lynches for sure. /f

[sangres]

MrObvious - [1] - TheIrishPope

You think this is an "easy lynch" this?

Yes. And so is this:

With 5/12 being scum we should just randomly lynch someone.

VOTE: TIP

Yer but I'd say a random lynch gives us more chance of not mislynching

How the fuck is this Town?

[sangres]

But your scumreads are all easy lynch too.

We're scumreading Cabd and Syr and as of now aren't townreading mollie. The only not easy lynches that we are townreading are you and Wisdom so what exactly do you expect us to do...?

[sangres]

I don't get nacho at all

I don't get why you're not getting Nacho.

Me neither.
That was just my 0.01 sec passive-thought when I read #630.

Now answer my question.
You can skip the first one.

Where has he distanced from interacting with me? He hasn't tried to interact with me at all. Unless you are talking his "somebody pay attention to me" posts when Mollie and I were going back and forth. THAT looked obstructive to our getting each other sorted out if anything.

Actually that question was regarding Cabd.

That one is fucking obvious. Instead of working through meta together like we have done in the past, now we're going to go off into our corners and do our separate things.

Go back and reread his read of us. And at look at what he did in terms of creating opportunities to interact with us before posting that weaksauce. /f

[sangres]

Meanwhile, there's TiP who has not pushed a lynch or mentioned any of the harder lynches except for a small reach-out to mollie/andy which was never followed up on, and pushes on mutley and MrObvious. He doesn't have a read on me (only believes I won't be lynched), and doesn't address any of my reads. That's pushing easy lynches, GiF.

[sangres]

That one is fucking obvious. Instead of working through meta together like we have done in the past, now we're going to go off into our corners and do our separate things.

And why do you want to do this, Cabd?

[sangres]

^
Re: Cabd

Obviously not since you are apparently not scumreading him. /f

[sangres]

Where's your Re: TiP? /f

[sangres]

I'm not scum-reading C either. This does not feel like the same player that played against me in my first IC game, nor does this feel like the player that I played with in AMOL

It's not the same player.

I remember him telling me, post game, that he played his passive-town Meta in that game and I also know that C prefer's playing scum far more than he prefer's playing town, and he's a whole lot more better at it

But when he has limited time, he has limited time to play his scumgame as well, meaning that yes it's going to be lacking as either alignment and no it's not going to look like his scumgames when he has more time. But the point is that based on what he's posted in thread so far and my vision of the thread so far, he's scum and he's scum. I'm not voting him because, again, I would like to see more from him and TiP is so obviously scum that it hurts.

and no, TIP isn't changing his meta just for this game Specifically. He's talked about changing how he's going to play the game with me, not mentioning specific games and I do see subtle changes in how he approaches the game.

How is his change in play from his normal compared to here subtle at all?

Where's your Re: TiP? /f

Town

Why?

[sangres]

I'm making random-reads seemingly out of nowhere, not even explaining how or why I have those reads and they are "haphazardly" Placed without as much of a thought in between.

And this is obviously not anything close to your scumplay.

[sangres]

I'm more or less disengaged with this game, but I'm not even being called out on that by you guys. either of you guys. I would at least expect Ffery to question the motives behind my posts, especially when she is usually so incredibly paranoid of me

you don't know why we're not calling you out as scum when you are town
are you fucking kidding me.

[sangres]

Hi MrObvious
What's your case on tippy?

My reason for voting TIP was his interest in the no lynch possibility. There's been a few things from other players that has caught my attention since then, but he hasn't done anything that has moved me to change my vote off of him.

what are those few things?

[sangres]

I'm making random-reads seemingly out of nowhere, not even explaining how or why I have those reads and they are "haphazardly" Placed without as much of a thought in between.

And this is obviously not anything close to your scumplay.

This isn't anything remotely close to my town game either

So you expect me to attack you for it...?

[sangres]

1) I don't see him being scum with MO

Why not?

[sangres]

I'm more or less disengaged with this game, but I'm not even being called out on that by you guys. either of you guys. I would at least expect Ffery to question the motives behind my posts, especially when she is usually so incredibly paranoid of me

Nacho reads you better than I do. I think that's a big part of why I'm not worrying too much about you at this time. The only thing that really troubles me is your read on TIP because I feel like if you are right and we are wrong, then my reads may be completely skewed. But I don't think they are. Espeically since I know I'm getting straight answers about players from Nacho. Usually step one is figuring him out and step two is figuring out whether I like his reads.

[sangres]

Hi MrObvious
What's your case on tippy?

My reason for voting TIP was his interest in the no lynch possibility. There's been a few things from other players that has caught my attention since then, but he hasn't done anything that has moved me to change my vote off of him.

what are those few things?

[sangres]

TiP/Cabd/MrObvious/Syryana/{mollie, N}

Mollie I need you to be super fucking town for me right now because if you do that for me I will feel much, much better about this game. Or make Andrius do it because I really really don't want you to be scum this game but if you are I'm going to make you do much more than you have thus far.

[sangres]

what are those few things?

You tried to clear yourself with this...

I once played 50 consecutive games without drawing a single scum role.

Nice of you to point out. That doesn't clear you in this game.

You thought that was an attempt to clear myself? The original comment about random numbers behaving like I'm a town gravity well was a joke response to a joke question. When N asked what I meant, I gave an example. If there is atakeaway from the comment, it's that I get very little practice playing scum games, which is true. And therefore for a player who has as much experience as I do, I have a relatively undeveloped scum game. When I play 2-3 scum games in a relatively close timeframe, I improve for a while, but then another long stream of town games means I've forgotten a lot of whatever I figured out previously.

[sangres]

nacho/fery - I don't like threats and I don't like that you have significantly not town-telled at all.

What threats? We want content from you mollie. content that moves the game forward. We have seen very little of that so far. Back atcha re towntelling.

@ fery

show me where you reached out

I never claimed to have reached out, except in that I responded in what I thought was similar spirit to your trolling question thinking that was going to be a start of a conversation between us.

Yesterday you didn't reach out to us.

I asked you for your reads yesterday. I hope you'll get around to posting them tonight.

[sangres]

Actually I guess that more or less passes for a reads list.

We agree with your town reads, and want to add Mara to it. The main thing that troubles us about her is that she has such a strong town read on TIP.

Pretty much agree with your scum reads, too, though our list is bigger.

Did you steal our list?

[sangres]

wat

I mean who was that offensive to

nacho? cos I am pretty sure he wouldn't have been offended by it.

and I certainly do not understand as to why it would be offensive to you

offensively bad, darling. it's me telling wisdom that he's taking crazy pills again.

nacho/fery - I don't like threats and I don't like that you have significantly not town-telled at all.

is this the threat?

Mollie I need you to be super fucking town for me right now because if you do that for me I will feel much, much better about this game. Or make Andrius do it because I really really don't want you to be scum this game but if you are I'm going to make you do much more than you have thus far.

i'm telling you that i'm in disaster mode right now and i'm boarding up the windows and if you could make it all better and hold me and tell me everything's going to be alright because you're reading me and you trust me, then that would be very much appreciated. but if you are scum, you're gonna need to manipulate the hell out of me to get a townread because i'm in a place right now where i am afraid and i think that you are scum because your timing is all off this game and i don't like it.

[sangres]

the "ohhh, I'm changing up my style" is even MORE bullshit when he's still playing normal like he is in this game, so he's changing specifically for us, even though we are familiar with his style. Mara doesn't see this, but you're correct in assuming she wouldn't lie about a TiP scum read; if they are partners together, don't think she would call him town in this specific scenario, so I'm comfortable with her. Meanwhile, you're fence-sitting on TiP-scum even though this is clearly and obviously not TiP-town because you see Mara has not called TiP scum yet so you're wondering if he can slip through the cracks or not.

Is this Nacho? If it, it's a scumclaim.

If you can't tell ffery and Nacho apart, I don't think you can read them anyway.

[sangres]

Keep in mind that one more vote will lead to a scum quickhammer and that scum sacrificing themselves during the night. Don't bring us to L-1 unless you're okay with us dying.

[sangres]

VOTE: sangres
Thought you would dissuade me or something...

Hard to dissuade you from a case that doesn't exist, TiP. So instead, I'm just trying to find all of the scum for you.

MrObvious --> Cabd --> Syryana --> better than nachos --> N

[sangres]

you can ctrl+f yourself. there are just a few false positives when you do it!

[sangres]

VOTE: sangres
Thought you would dissuade me or something...

also where did your read on us as tunneling town go?
i forgot about that.

[sangres]

Actually, I'd like to see what happens if we run them seperately and compare notes when done. Which players here do you have zero meta on? We'll find one neither of us has meta on and compare notes when we're done.

I have zero meta with N and was planning to go through some of his games today anyway.

Do you want to look at the same games?

oh, you are

Nacho pointed me to some sweet games.

[sangres]

N!!! I read those sweet games and I think I owe you an apology

{MrObvious, Cabd, Syryana, better than nachos, TheIrishPope}

final answer.

[sangres]

Looks like there is nobody to talk to but ourselves.

[sangres]

hola mutley.
we're about to talk a whole lot so lots for you to read! do you want to vote tip with us?

[sangres]

This is still not town Nacho.

If you get us lynched, you will follow our reads until one flips town. Do you agree with this?

[sangres]

And also when this game is over, I never want you to use the phrase "town Nacho" ever again.

[sangres]

Can I still use Town Nacho?

[sangres]

Wisdom those games are magical. I have them bookmarked for future N reference.

[sangres]

Can I still use Town Nacho?

Of course!

For me TIP Mara Wisdom Mrobvious syr

Then just follow TiP/MO/Syr first and we will get along just fine.

[sangres]

This is still not town Nacho.

If you get us lynched, you will follow our reads until one flips town. Do you agree with this?

And also when this game is over, I never want you to use the phrase "town Nacho" ever again.

An apology would also be nice, Wisdom.

Votecount 1.31:

sangres - [5] - Cabd, Wisdom, GuyInFreezer, AdoboNation, TheIrishPope
TheIrishPope - [5] - Syryana, MrObvious, Metal Sonic, sangres, Mutleyddmc
Wisdom - [1] - N

Not voting - [1] - better than nachos

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 6 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-08-10 22:32:45)

[sangres]

And also when this game is over, I never want you to use the phrase "town Nacho" ever again.

AtE harder. It won't work on me.

actually i'm just going to break the game and give you a winky face!
I'm not AtEing, I'm using a technique called the time bomb. As in I say these things now and don't expect you to react to them because you're too far gone to listen to reason. But when the game is over and the truth is out on the table, I quote these posts.

Boom.

[sangres]

Why the fuck would I follow your reads?
Even if by some miracle you're town, your game being so weak means your reads are crap.
I will only follow mine.

^^^^^^^
this is why you don't listen to wisdom, ladies and gentlemen. how has my game been weak?

[sangres]

hahahaha ffery thought you would follow our reads after we flipped town
she doesn't know you like I know you, right?

[sangres]

Nacho posts much more as town.

sucks don't it, wisdom?

[sangres]

N!!! I read those sweet games and I think I owe you an apology

{MrObvious, Cabd, Syryana, better than nachos, TheIrishPope}

final answer.

Tell me which of my games are sweet.

Black Flag and #YOLO are the games we went through.

[sangres]

N if you could fucking unvote for us to make our posts so no one can quickhammer, that would be fucking swell
tia

[sangres]

we are making posts. please let us make our posts and then lynch us to your heart's desire.

[sangres]

That's upsetting, because all I want in this game is for Wisdom and Mutley to townread me.

We think you are town. You'd have to completely reconstruct your game to invalidate the model I developed from Nacho's meta tour. Those really are some sweet games.

[sangres]

Strong Town (to both of us)

Muttley - I hear a celestial choir chanting an a capella mantra when I read your posts. "Tooooown...Tooooown...Toooown". Anyone who even thinks about lynching you will answer to us. That is all. Well, not absolutely all. Every post, every observation, every interaction has come from the piurest of pure town hearts. Ivory Soap looks grimy next to Muttley's posts.

N - speaking of a town game nothing like the scum game, you may be the gold standard. Your posts...conversational, quippy, trolly and above all fluidly interactive with a wide focus and justice for all. Your posts in this game could never be mistaken for your careful, distant, wallzy scum game. (You snooze you lose, Cabd. You could have been there You could have seen what I've seen. But, no.)

Wisdom - Our dear batshit tunnelbuddy. One game, maybe one game day and your meta is mine. You are earnestly, thoughtfully, certainly, painfully wrong in nearly every possible way about us. And when the full scope of your read errors are revealed, you will shake your head and you will say that it's not your fault, that the townies you tunneled into dust should have played better. Tlaloc help you, Tlaloc help us all, you're town.

Mixed Town (strong to one of us)

Mara - Nacho loves and trusts you Mara. He's confident that your heart is town, your mind is town, and your every post is town. My eyebrows crawl into my hairline over the occasional post but that's the way it goes. Underneath the heartiest of town cooperation lurk fears born in a nightless game long ago You know how sometimes you recognize town ffery in a game but all I see is scum no matter what you do or say? I get it now. Paranoia flickers around the edges, but I see what it's like. This moment of comprehension probably won't last, but the memory will linger. Today you are town for both of us because role PMS don't lie. Don't ever lose your mollie scum read this game. Don't let her get away.

GiF - I know you are town, and believe you will be sad when you realize your horrible mistake. The first time out with a new hydra is always a little rocky. But, this hydra is different. Nacho knows my game too well already. He knows what I think. he knows what posts I will react to, and he knows why. And I'm playing with others who know my game nearly that well, including you. Every circumstance that has made me stop and think, made me wonder what I did or could have revealed about my state of mind or about my approach to the game, you've been right there and you have twitched. And every twitch has been a town reaction to the undercurrents in my play that I try to ignore. I push them aside and stay focused on the game, and they leap back unexpectedly. When the realization hit - ah, this is what GiF is seeing - it explained other off reactions to me as well. And it highlighted what is wrong with the reactions of the scum players. Their timing is off, and they overreact to one thing and underreact to another. Your very clear feedback has helped me see who the scum are. Not the easy ones. The difficult ones that I only ever find by a sort of in-thread sonar, because some echos don't come back when they should or from what direction they should.. Nacho sees evil flickers of Xenoblade-GiF occasionally and doesn't see town-GiF as clearly as I do. Please don't forget our scum reads.

Outer Circle AKA Least Loved Town

Metal Sonic - You break our hearts. Five fucking posts. How are we suppoed to town read that? Do better. Make us proud. Or we will rise up out of the grave and haunt you. I'd write more, but what can you say about five fucking posts, except that they aren't scummy?

Scum All of you, scum

Cabd - So many off notes. One or two, and excuses could be made. But, from your reads list where you condemned us sayiing the interactions with Wisdom's tunnelmania don't look t v t through every single statement and comment sicne then, you've shown an unwillingness to develop a read, or to consider possibiities. You're not thinking about it because you don't need to. You know what the answer you need is, and the only way you will back off is if town itself gets a clue. I would have our vote on you now and to hell with viable bandwagons. Nacho is thinking ahead to the next step and the step after that. We will be the invisible hand that holds tight to a town win and denies you anything more than the satisfaction of seeing us lynched.

Syr - You can lurk but you can't hide. You were caught out by your own question to me when you didn't see the flinch, and an anticipatory dread of another long game of misreads and total failure of minds to meet. I thought my town-Syr model couldn't be robust enough to highlight a scum-Syr behavior set that I have never seen in real time. I was wrong. You are scum. A good town model is good enough.

TIP - your meta makeover is good enough to fool some, but your scummy motivations are revealed again and again by the stop, hop, and stumble trajetory to every stanse and vote you make. I coin a neologism just for you: scumble-fumble

Mr. Obvious - Why are you scum? You wander around the edges, pick at loose threads, pull them, and wind up with nothing. A town player would think, "Hm, I guess I was wrong." You do not. You maintain your unsupported stance, find another thread, and start over. Soon the fabric of your position will be completely unraveled, and you will stand caseless before your peers.

Mollie - I saved the best for last. Mollie, your nerves betrayed you in our very first interaction. Town-you would have kept up the light sparring, aleady searching for cracks in the facade and faults in the foundation. You would have tested us, and tested us again. And you would test every time you entered the thread until you were satisfied about our alignment. Instead, you played the victim, acted out a paranoia toward us while ignoring very real triggers for genuine paranoia in Mara's reads and behaviors. Because we were and are the ones who can expose you, who can tear your scum edifice down and break it into atoms. And you can't go after us the way that truly paranoid town mollie could because if you help get us lynched there will be no place to hide. Scum you fears the repercussions of leading our bandwagon. So, you vote mara and whine at us for being big meanies because we don't reach out and we ask you to step up and produce content and move the game forward. And you run away.

[sangres]

Nacho's patented reads!^TM*

AdoboNation:
First thing I want to address is the whole Mara reading TiP town thing since it's something that ffery and I disagree pretty strongly with her on and she's still a strong townread for me. First of all, I don't think that Mara would open up the game with townreading TiP at the start. From the way our wagon is looking at the moment, it's mostly being pushed by paranoid town, so scumMara couldn't have bet on us being a popular lynch target Day 1, and with that in mind, she would have to worry about us picking up on TiP and scumreading the fuck out of them, which of course would make her look terrible. But even better than that, I think that her #32, #33 switch from "let's wait" to voting someone other than TiP was extremely town and doesn't make sense from a Marascum perspective. For a marascum tip town interaction, TiP's first post makes him a viable mislynch to her; no reason not to wait and see how the rest of the town interprets it. For a marascum tip scum interaction, he could duck scumdars with the playstyle change. No reason not to wait unless she wants to bus the fuck out of him, but otherwise it doesn't make so much sense. But it DOES make sense for her to initially ping her as weird/unsure and then decide to upgrade him to a townread based on their conversations in site chat. As scum, she would also probably have a game plan for how she would approach TiP's playstyle change that she KNEW was coming, and I seriously fucking doubt that "immediate flip flop then defend the fuck out of him" was her answer. #24 was a decently smooth interaction with mollie, and I liked the trajectory of Mara trying to figure Mara/us out because it feels like she's the only one that tried. The "I think mollie is scum" was obviously a feeler which was completely ignored by mollie, which was later upgraded to a vote. Her paranoia on ffery makes a decent amount of sense and set up for the recent feeler vote on her; she later explained it by ffery always being paranoid about her which, again, is something that makes a lot of sense to me. It's a classic Wisdom accusation for people not to be paranoid enough of him. Her attacking me for not attacking her for ignoring us is a bit convoluted, but is also a move that makes a lot of sense. In short form, town-Mara has been following a lot of the steps that I expect her to a fucking T which means that yeah she's town as fuck and should never ever ever be lynched.

Mutleyddmc:
I find that Mutleytown always has a small tendency to troll; not all of the posts that he has have a whole lot of purpose sometimes, but he's pretty aware of this meta, replicates it in his scumgame, goes a little wild with it. I think that a couple of his suggestions have been pretty classic Mutley (let's random lynch because there's a good chance we'll hit scum, I'm just voting TiP because of his crap avatar, etc) but haven't been distracting from the game or bringing scum-Mutley any particular benefit. He also has a few playful interactions with players that I enjoy (guilt-tripping Mara is a personal towntell of mine not only because it's hilarious, but again because it's that good kind of trolling which doesn't serve any purpose). There's also a matter of me sitting here at L-1 promising to make a gigantic post and mutley not hammering, which is ALWAYS an amazing towntell that I dig so much he has no idea. And in the middle of this, Mutley shows through his scumhunting town mutley in places like #99 which is a good fucking observation and reflects exactly what we've seen, and his thoughts on scum make a lot of sense (tip scum = mara+wisdom scum, finding N town for having a similar playstyle to him earlygame). #447 shows that he' self-aware about trolling too much as scum which is a townie thing to bring up simply because it inspires paranoia and destroys some easy townreads he could pick up from his play so far. His frustration over being misunderstood about the sangres scum leads to mollie scum also shines through in his exchange with wisdom, and all around just a town town town motherfucker.

Wisdom:
Wisdom, wisdom, wisdom. #83 is, as I said earlier, pretty much classic Wisdom. I thought that his problem with Mara finding TiP's new style town ("you're so familiar with his new style you can already tell the difference between town and scum new style?") was a good one, shows he's actually thinking beneath those dark tunneling waters. He also has the tendency to get pulled into being the bulldog for scum and the choice of attacking me was a strange, strange way to go. Mollie and Cabd and those that know me well know that I live for this shit and probably wouldn't approve of a "attack the fuck out of Nacho gameplan", and I'm also doubting that those two would let Wisdom lead the charge. He's so completely out of step with everyone else; everyone else on this wagon is trying to sort me out or is scum, but Wisdom's tunneled on me beyond reason. I also think that his most recent exchange with me trolling him was pretty town; as I tell him to follow my reads, his answer is to tell me that my play is "weak" so he won't listen to my reads if he gets lynched, which is Wisdom's "unsure about my read on you but going to push you anyways because I don't know how to back down". I like his read on Mutley, and I do like his conspiracy theories that he cooks up eventually. He always seems to forget to do that as scum, and instead pushes things he knows he can convince other people to buy. He doesn't give off that vibe at all here.

N:
So, in my recent metadive with ffery of N's games, we noticed two major things. The first is that N tends to start out more seriously as scum, which I think is very accurate and pretty cool (with the exception of him occasionally trolling the fuck out of marathon games as scum and somehow not dying). The other is that he has a serious tendency to talk about his scumbuddies rather than to them. On the surface, his play most obviously follows his town game. On a deeper level, knowing that it's not that hard to troll and keep trolling as scum, I noticed a few deeper things. The first is based on the interactions thing. Most of his posts thus far haven't really been anything remotely resembling scum theatre, which is important. All of his interactions feel natural, and he's not afraid to grab a decently wide spread of interactions and generate reactions. There's also the connect with mutley that I liked a lot in #783 because it is a great observation and MrObvious would not be someone that the scumteam would want to be discussed at this very moment. Him forgetting where his vote also seemed like more of a town move than a scum move, especially how I can see how he thought he probably switched his vote in #720 and considering he picks his battles pretty fucking carefully as scum, it seems. Fairly awesomely great townread here.

GuyInFreezer:
Ffery thinks that GiF is genuinely scumreading her, I tend to agree with a slight reservation. Posts that I liked from GiF is the "ffery is town if she made that post" because of how he questioned who it was before hand, liked the Cabd vote, most of that made sense from within GiF's mind. But what I appreciated the most was GiF's recent exchange with us; attacking us for pushing easy lynches made a lot of sense with his opinion of TiP's wagon kept in mind, and I thought the questions to ffery were pretty good and more substantial than his exchanges with Varsoon in Xenoblade. Overall, I think he's pretty town. Ffery has paranoid leanings because he hasn't read us as town yet, but the more I think about it I just sort of trust ffery's read on this one.

Metal Sonic:
Metal Sonic is of course the dark horse townie. Do I really know that he is town? Fuck no. But I feel good about my other reads, and I want to

believe

that he's town. Plus there's this super awesome sexy secret gem:

TheIrishPope - [4] - Syryana, MrObvious, Metal Sonic, sangres

We're at this really weird point in our life where we believe that most people pushing our wagon are townies and the counterwagon is composed of some bus happy scumfucks. I don't see three scum bussing TiP in counterwagon to us even within the realm of possibility, so if our scumreads are good, then this townread is fucking amazing despite 5 posts.

I wouldn't cry if he came in and did some super town things though.

MrObvious:
Loving the name because it seems like the guy that everyone knows is scum but no one is really pushing and as a result he's going to come in at about 7pm tomorrow and quickhammer the fuck out of me before dying overnight and everyone is going to be like "oh, duh". I dig MrObvious as a scumread because he's picking up on all the wrong things on TiP and that's what makes me see scum theatre; happened in Popcorn Mafia with bork and AA as bork was finding AA scum for reasons that weren't (lurkfuck, not freaking out when I call her scum). Post #260 was MrObvious dropping the I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POSTS FOR YOU TO READ ME scumtell, scumplaining about hydras ruining the game (what), and nothing more than one-shots on random suspicions (such as suspecting ffery for trying to clear herself {{{context needed}}}, mutley calling for a random lynch while not having a completely random vote now but somehow no problems with mutley calling for a random lynch and no comment on the idea itself)... So yeah, he's scum and everybody knows it.

Cabd:
Cabd breaks my heart when I have to see him as scum, but it looks like he's scum here. #243 is a massive hunk of bullshit; he's looking at our arguments and not at us as players, and he's also ignoring the shit out of my/ffery's read on mollie, which seems pretty strange to me. First game I played with this kid, mollie had ffery-scum in a hydra pinned to a fucking wall, ffery-scum tried to call mollie-town, I had a strong townread on mollie and backed that up. ffery-scum gets lynched Day 1. With that in mind, you'd expect him, especially since he's such a meta-oriented player, to pay some extra attention to any interactions between the hydras but he just doesn't, hell, the fact that he doesn't even factor in the two people who have some pretty awesome track records in reading mollie into his read on her sends giant red flags up that hurt my eyes to look so closely at. I find his hypocrisy in being worried about me not posting when he knows for a fact my posting can be sporadic as town strange considering my reach-out to encourage him to towninate was met with "nacho i'm too busy " (man cabd, i know for a fact programmers never sleep), and ffery's offer to meta dive beside him was met with "let's do it seperately!" is another huge red flag. He's not picking up on what he SHOULD be picking up on, and yes he's a good scum player and loves playing scum but a slow start is a slow start and this definitely isn't the type of thing I expect from town-Cabd. That tiny little reachout he gave was something scumCabd could fake even if he had a serious concussion and completely forgot to play mafia; I wanted something town.

Syryana:
Syryana is bussing TiP, to all of those who can't really see the obvious. He rolls in the game, sees TiP is a scumbuddy, starts pushing. Ignores me completely (not even a hello?), ignores ffery's response to his question which we both thought was strange, has trolling which is a little lame. He's the type of scum that will shake out of the scumorange tree when his buddies start to fall and he can't bus anymore, so just keep an eye on him after the first two of MrObvious/TiP/Mollie go.

TheIrishPope:
Mutley's #99 sums it up pretty well and I've already posted a fair bit on it already, but for completeness's sake, what the hell. TiP's play this game, changing up his style or not, does not reflect town-TiP at all. Town TiP's strongest trait is the conviction by which he pushes things; not the fact that he's crazy as shit, not the fact that he posts a lot, but by his conviction. There is absolutely ZERO conviction in TiP's opportunism this game (look at him call us "tunneling town" and then immediately vote him for "not convincing him"- why the hell did we have to convince him of anything when he was reading us as town?), there is ZERO conviction in TiP's two votes for the day (MrObvious was crossbussing a shitty looking partner, Mutley was an easy lynch), and his interactions with literally everyone have been off as fuck. There's no reason why he would stop interacting with people completely unless he thought he could get away with it under his "new style". I seriously don't understand any reasoning for TiP town that has been brought up; yeah he might be changing his style but why change it to this? I got a slight town ping from his crazy reads list, but immediately going against it for the sake of opportunism firmed that scumread right up into something beautiful.

better than nachos:
First of all, Andylove. Where the fuck are you?
Second of all, holy shit is mollie scum. Her play for the day have been accusing us of not trying to work with her and wondering why we're not trying to work with her (she has zero observations about the game itself. zero. yes she gets thrown off by retardedness but she would have much more of a hand in our lynch if she was town). Her reads list is seriously seriously pitiful and there shouldn't really be a reason why she is so completely out of step this game unless she's scum. Where Mara has hit the beats that I expect her to, mollie has missed pretty much every single one. She is scum, and I expect everyone to cash that in as hard as they possibly can.

*= but not actually nacho because nacho is always scum. more like sang of sangres's reads. sang stands for sanguine because i'm optimistic and overly confident, and res stands for resolution because ffery brings everything into focus. which isn't actually true but w/e trying to find a loophole to work with N.

[sangres]

OPEN 515 Cold Stone

[sangres]

No, that post was not fine. It was terrible and dumb. If you are looking at who has voted us to see how we are reading people you will see that people who were (and are) voting us are in our town pile and people who aren't voting us are also in our town pile. Same with our scum pile.

[sangres]

Yes, I changed my read of them when they continued on their silly notion that they lead the game.

You've never scumread me before for leading the game, even though I'm pretty sure I've done so many times around you.

Don't compare yourself to Nacho. Also, remember it's a hydra. Playstyles change if you're in a hydra.

You're acting like I become a different person when I'm in a hydra when you know that's not the case. You played with Oil Tycoons in Popcorn Mafia and you ended up calling me Nacho for a majority of the game. Or is a part of your new playstyle pretending that you aren't TheIrishPope anymore?

Wisdom, I'm so fucking lost. Can we just random lynch?

Why would you want to random lynch when you're confident on us and MrObvious being scum? You seem pretty convinced of this before this point and after this point, so it just seems like another case of clunky trajectory.

It doesn't make them scum; other things make them scum.

Like wanting to lead and...?

[sangres]

UNVOTE:

Hi Ffery

Hi Nacho

<3

Hey Mara. sup?

[sangres]

Hey fery can we lynch MO first? Because I'm still not quite convinced with tippy scum.

We've still got a lot of time to figure this out.

Re not having to lynch thm all, inorite? 3 out of 5. I think that's the reason why Nacho is thinking to go after the obvious ones first. Because if they are still around and we lynch town, the most dangerous scum won't be the ones sacrificed to mylo-reestablishing night kills.

[sangres]

That is alot of nulls

and he did the same thing in Hillbilly

, thing is though I'm not entirely sure if that can even be used as a accurate reference because of the backwardness of the game. I don't really think it's a good example of my scum game, though it might be a decent one for my town game but IDK

Ffery, I really, really like those reads list the both of you made.

I really, really am uncomfortable with lynching TIP though. I really, really do believe that he's town though depending on what happen later on in the game, and what TNE thinks it could be dropped though it isn't going to happen today

Syry, I'm not to entirely sure. I have him as null but I am willing to lynch one of Obvious and Mollie/Andy Hydra as they are my top two scum-reads atm

I don't like Obvious's AtE post. we are all busy, we all have lives and you weren't even attacking him with that angle. Him using that as a defense is wierd

wasn't that the game where the alignments were reversed and town was really scum? Which team was he on? Did he think he was scum or town when he made the list?

[sangres]

So, the reads list could be indicative if there are town games he's played where he doesn't have a ton of nulls.

However - he said in that gripe post that he doesn't know most of the players in this game. I've been in that situation a few times at MS, and I wind up with a lot more null reads for most if not all of day 1 than in games where I know several players.

In one game the vig tried to kill me because I had too many day 1 nulls. :/

[sangres]

FFERY - DOWNTOBUSNIESS. Wisdom had a good point with SCUM NEED SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO AND FOCUS. And it could be this stupid ffery/mollie bullshit which is holding us up. Its like Nacho and me but horrible. Day One: Xenoblade, with Cabd, Metal Sonic, mollie, ffery, Nacho, TMT, as my witnesses. Nacho and I quickly set up our TOWN/TOWN reads and did not make a bit stink about it. I'm just seeing some NOTGENUINE here. Yes, I had a bit of a MELTDOWN at the end there where I got all paranoid. But we had damn straight reads all game up to that point (pretty much).

Please ask mollie into coming back and doi something...anything...to advance the game. Nacho and I both know her play style and know what she's capable of on day 1. This is not it.

[sangres]

Cabd! I see you talking about your scumgame... come in and play it.

[sangres]

Since we're on the topic of sangres...

The only thing I have against sangres at this point is him digging at me because I have a job and a family and I only have limited time to commit to this each day. Luckily, there is only 8 pages to catch up on today, unlike the last 2 where there were more. And yes, I'm here now at 7pm, mf'r, but I wouldn't have hammered you even if I had been here earlier. I think you're town. So, stick that up your keister.

Right now I have 2 kids screaming in my ear demanding my attention, and my pms'ing wife slowly and angrily telling me a story I have absolutely no interest in, but she's gonna make sure I hear every detail and also make damn sure that at the end of it, it will be my fault and she's fucking pissed. It's been like that here the last 2 nights and it will be like that every night going forth. So, you can get off my nuts about my limited time. I've committed to this game and I am posting every day but I'm not here all day like you mf'rs that are posting 10 times an hour and running up the page count and bitching about those who aren't here to post constantly. If I knew the game was going to be this busy, I would've signed up for a different one. I'm not bitching for anyone to slow down though, some games just run faster than others and I've just not had time available to participate during several times of heavy posting in this game.

As far as hydras go, it's my opinion that they just add more players to the game. Regardless of alignment, I think the hydras in general have an advantage over everyone else with their cute little QT's to discuss their every move. I understand their need to have that warm fuzzy feeling that someone in the game is always going to have their back. Honestly, hydras are ideal for beginner games, outside of that, not so much. ITT, Mollie doesn't even give a shit enough to login to her hydra account to post. So, I don't even know which hydra is talking when she posts. Why not just drop the hydra bs and have each player play in the game. That's just my opinion and I don't really care if you or anyone else like it and I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, though I'm sure some do.

I don't know everyone in this game, as it appears many of you do, much less who the partners are that make up the hydras and it gets damn hard to keep up with everything when you are a complete outsider to the little clique you've found yourself signed into play a game with. I am doing my best to keep up with who you and your partner are, who the other partners are in the other hydras, and not to mention, all of the other players I've never played with before.

Some times, the spaz poster is an over eager town beaver. Other times, he is manipulative scum pushing a line of shit and standing proud behind it. There is no rush in this game. We still have almost 2 weeks until deadline. If you want things to be easier for your "edge playing" fellow townies, don't spam the thread with meaningless shit, and there will be less for them to have to read with the limited time they have.

What this amounts to is a wall of excuses. I'm sure you are very busy; god knows I've been busy (in this game, even), and wrongly accused of being scum for it. But when you're busy, you declare V/LA if you need it, whatever you gotta do. Walls like this aren't going to help me much at all because it really isn't that hard for scum to be genuine about how busy they are, but it is hard for them to be genuine about what's happening in games. Give me a wall like this talking about the game.

[sangres]

Cute, but it's not my scumgame. I wish it was.

This is my "derp around on site chat while in traffic on my work commute" hour, TYVM.

just keep breaking my heart, cabd.

[sangres]

Hey fery can we lynch MO first? Because I'm still not quite convinced with tippy scum.

I certainly wouldn't mind.

Andy mollie town

please don't break my heart with this crap

So instead, my next day off (aka thuuuuuursday) this game gets priority. I will just junk heap what i have now and give it a clean re-read, and go back to towning up the thread like I should have been.

Last time it was tuesday

1) Why policy ffery? The only game I played with her she was preeeeeetty weak but that could have been a simple hydra issue.
2) How'd he claim scum?

1) Joke
2) Many people have asked that question.

You seem pretty firmly set that she's scum, since the entire post is pretty much assuming so.
Do not like.
Also.
You ignore the fact that I too, am here.

Why does it matter who is here and who is not? I can read you both pretty well; a strong scumread on either means the whole btn ship goes down.

Personally I'm assuming she went to bed as it was 11pm my time so that means 2am her time.
Yeah. I like that theory.
No tinfoil required.

She probably did. That doesn't change anything :/

cabd seems town

For #552, I assume? Why?

Oh hey look.
A last hurrah from the ffery/nacho slot.
ITS K
WE CAN SALVAGE THIS
OR DIE TRYING

This is your response to our #790/#791?

Loving Obvious' #832.

Because he talked about his life? Are you kidding me?

SO MUCH GODDAMN NOISE. Seriously when I have time next (tomorrow night) I'm digging into his shit because there has to be shit buried in that horrible WALLSOFPOSTS. Don't need a bloodhound to see that.

I see you ignored our comments on N.

Wisdom had a good point with SCUM NEED SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO AND FOCUS.

What are we focusing on? You, even though we've been waiting for you to do shit for most of the game? TiP? MrObvious? Cabd? Or have we been too focused on our scumreads? Or is this just a bullshit point

So I've got a nice solid towngroup for me so GIVEN SETUP I've got to be doing damn good at this point.

Wisdom, Cabd, Metal Sonic, Mutley, MrObvious.
Cabd read and MrObvious reads will be most important for you to explain, but hell, toss in a Metal Sonic read explanation aswell.

FUCKING SIGN YOUR POSTS.

I guess you should talk more closely with mollie about the game then.

[sangres]

And actually after that last post, I'm done giving mollie/Andrius room.

Vote: better than nachos

Excerpt from a different game:

Spoiler:

okay party time is over

this:

mrbungle ----.town

for now

was more less a reaction test that you miserably failed. I wanted to see if you would add cosying up to the dumbass case that you are trying to push on me and guess what you didn't disappoint.

so here go:

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

^ this is a retarded question I mean it is pure fluff and trying to say that you can get read off of an answer to it is not only arrogantly stupid but bad play as well. do you know what I do with retarded questions? I ignore them.

Look at the 3 posts before Pirate's... they are pretty obviously all "joke" posts and it would be so easy and honestly pretty natural for a townie to continue on with the joking. (joking refers to me asking if anyone is town) Then mr pirate comes in with this enthusiastic "hi guys!" The problem I have with that is that it looks like he's wanting to portray himself as this friendly and outgoing townie, yet I don't get that feeling at all because of a few reasons:

1. he afk'd out of the thread since that post
2. he didn't participate in my "are you town" circle jerk line of questioning, which I would expect him to if he really is this friendly/enthusiastic townie
3. he didn't even participate in the random voting (I know I've said I loathe rvs, but it would be better than nothing at all which is what pirate's provided)

Pirate = guy who gave the appearance of being friendly, eager to play, etc etc.... yet he's contributed nothing and he wasn't actually all that friendly.

1. you voted me exactly 42 minutes after my post and you are saying that the reason you voted me was cos I afk'd out of the thread? do you have any idea how dumb that sounds? and how does me "afk'ing" out of a game thread ( ) correlate to my entry post as "not being friendly and outgoing"? let me give you a giant hint: it doesn't.
2. I didn't participate in your "are you town" circle jerk cos I found it boring and stupid. you must be butthurt about huh.
3. I sometimes participate in rvs and sometimes I don't. depends on my mood.

what is incredibly scummy, not to mention disturbingly absurd, about your post is that you have made up this entire scenario that I am scum based off of 2 words at the time you posted this. do you know who pushes illegitimate cases it is scum that is who and your "case" does not have a leg to stand on since you have utterly failed to point out one scumtell.

@pirate

so you aren't suspicious of anything that's been said so far?

and how is that comment about newb-status relevant?

it is page 2. not everyone has checked in yet. there is nothing super suspicion going on except your insistence that there is. the newb status is relevant cos it points to skill level and good players pay attention to things like that. newbs inadvertently drop scumtells all of the time that is why you treat newbs and experienced players differently this is like mafia 101 stuff here.

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

Why are you asking that question? It's not like he's going to say he's scum if he was.

yeah, of course not. but since there is nothing to go on this early in the game, you have to start somewhere. even if you ask a question with an obvious answer you can still get valuable information based on how they answer. for example, his response was "I am town." That's sorta a null response for me, or maybe slightly scummy. There's no emotion in that response... a more townie response might have contained emotion/humor/etc.

Being a newbie and asking a ton of questions is fine, but is there anyone you think might be mafia so far?

LOL. we can bin this post in the "trying too hard" category which guess what, is an actual legitimate scumtell.

btw, my earlier vote wasn't a "joke vote" or whatever it is that you guys do during this 'rvs' thing that I've read about.

mr pirate, are you town/scum?

Why would you vote pirate just all of the sudden like that?

lol i've already explained my reasoning for my vote.... you should read the thread. see post #35. points #2 and 3 in that post are the reason I voted. admittedly those 2 points are fairly weak, but there's also point #1 which came after my vote. and even now, after he's posted a few more times, he's still being completely useless. pirate's given a few town reads but any scum can easily do that.

apparently he's not suspicious of anything which is a good indicator that he could be mafia

.

first off I am a female so how about you addressing me as such. secondly I think it is totally awesome how you have managed to zero in on me hours later after the game has opened and say that what I have done is "useless". lol. you say this as if you have actually done something except to place a very scummy vote based horrifyingly retarded reasons that only can come from scum motivation. why not just announce that you are scum and be done with it already.

what is also impressive at this point is that you have studiously avoided nacho's "will be back" post. like you are literally saying nothing about it. looks like scum avoidance to me. is nacho your scummate?

Well yeah they're over the top, but you have to start somewhere. actually right now i could care less about any of the initial reasons I had for voting pirate based on his "hi guys" post, and now I'm mainly concerned with how he hasn't done anything to move the game forwards. he gave out some town reads, but that does not help the discussion.

(so pirate, next time you post I would like to see you either giving some scumreads or at least making an attempt to get some)

lol wat discussion. the only thing that is going on at this point in the game is your posturing and grandstanding which usually comes from scum motivation.

my play tends to attract either scum or retards, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you might not be retarded.

VOTE: bunglebonehead

if you are trying to generate content for content's sake you are doing a terrible job at it if you are town. I don't think you are, you have yet to make a post that comes from a town POV. you should be the lynch for the day with your happy over-eager posting that tries to name scumtells that are not actually scumtells.

also

NACHO IF YOU ARE TOWN AND YOU ABANDON ME THIS GAME I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN IRL AND STRANGLE YOU EVEN THOUGH I WILL NEED A STEPLADDER TO DO IT

Subject: Newbie 1329: Bortrax (Game Over)

hi guyz!

I have only been in this game a few minutes and lorantha is already annoying the crap out of me

nacho, my love, my dearest, l1ght 0f m3h l1f3

what is with the followy vote onto bbg?

bbg, also I agree with zaicon in that you don't want to just out your role as vt cos it narrows the field for scum to power role/special hunt. (they are called power roles here, I call them specials or "speshuls")

also generally you don't want to claim until you are about L1 or L2 unless you do have a special role and it is in town's best interest for you to out.

guys guys guys

lets just lynch nacho and get it over with

here, I will start

VOTE: nacho

it breaks my heart to do so btw. I love nacho.

Subject: NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

I will probably have as much luck getting you lynched as I did raven.

I am not going to go into histrionics. I am somewhat resigned.

Subject: NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

mollie, are we going to work together now?

fucking with my head was probably not the best of ideas in a pressure cooker environment

so probably not

mantis reads as scummy

but you know what? with matt fucking fake claiming like 3 times (and I seriously think he should be lynched for it), a bunch of peeps not giving a shit, scum are probably the only ones looking town right now and majiffy ignoring a 98% town read from me, I think I am heading in the direction of I don't give a fuck

let's write haikus instead

Subject: Micro 99 - Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

nacho - can you explain your vote?

feel
normally i feel me and you usually click in games and I get a strong townread, but right now I'm not.
so impress me.

haha.

well i'm wondering why you voted mollie when you did. did you think that her claim that she was making a serious vote was actually scummy?

No. I found her Blueberry vote inaccurate, and I saw the potential for the vote to put a little free pressure on mollie that normally wouldn't happen thanks to the guaranteed people who were going to yell at her for making a serious vote too early. What was the "haha" bit about?

Oh god I'm already getting hot. Please, go on.

I feel me, but that's not enough. I'd rather you feel me feeling you as we gloat over pegging mantis as scum faster than mollie ever could.

Wisdom, speculating whether someone could be chosen or not before they are lynched is detrimental to town. It only makes townies doubt their reads more than they normally would, which is bad and death ESPECIALLY for this setup since it allows scum to convince other people onto to ACTUAL chosen's lynches easier, and it also allows scum to prematurely defend themselves. If a Chosen is lynched, you criticize the fuck out of every single person on that bandwagon. But you don't start speculation before then because you have no fucking idea who the hell anyone is.

Mantis's interest in my mollie vote is strange. What's my thought process behind voting mollie as scum?

Mollie, Blueberry, Wisdom, and Majiffy are all intensely strong townreads for me.

fuck you nacho I had you as town with your first couple of posts. majiffy took a bit longer. wisdom as strong town in the intro but then he got weird but I am resetting with yours and majiffy's endorsement.

KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OF MAJIFFY

Subject: Micro 99 - Chosen Mafia (Game Over)

I thought my vote was on you tbh. you mean it isn't?

plus I want to sort nacho.

and I will move my vote when I am ready and WHY THE FUCK DO I KEEP FUCKING GETTING INTO THIS SAME STUPID ARGUMENT ON THIS SITE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

eta: that was to wisdom

majiffy insults everybody all of the time

How is this the point of Mafia? How is this necessary? How is this conducive to an enjoyable and educative game environment? You can't just justify this by it being your playstyle.

cos mafia is a game of psychology where there is the potential for lying, manipulation and deceit. <---- scum do this but sometimes it is hard to tune out town noise as in reactions to the lying, manipulation and deceit and town is also capable of all of the latter it is not based on logic cos the human psyche is not always logical it is way too complex for that. the only logic will come from a gm thing and that is not always reliable unless it is an open game with no spanners in the works.

anyways some players will put pressure on other players in order to reaction test but sometimes they just feel pissy. it is educative cos you learn a little something about yourself and how other human beings work.

but this is all moot and can you unstick yourself from majiffy for 2 minutes and look at what else is going on around you. if majiffy is scum then who is in the background. I think majiffy looks squiffy but I am not ruling out that he misstepped in rvs and could possibly be town. I am fine with a majiffy or metal lynch cos I think that would provide the most info based on what we have right now. so that means if one of them is town I am going to go all paranoid ballistic with nacho cos he is the one pushing this but it makes the most sense to me right now even with a null/unsure read.

Subject: Micro 88: KISS Speed - GAME OVER

Do you believe that a wall that is copy-pasted twice is a scumtell?
Do you believe that pirate_mollie's play this game could be called "bendable"?
Did you like her vote and immediate unvote of Majiffy?
Do you think that pirate_mollie believes that I am buddying harder to Mantis than she is, or that it's a scumtell?
Why did mollie vote me yesterday?

No, no - The first semblance of a case she brought up on me is that I copy-pasted my obnoxious wall twice. Yes, that's a mistake. She said that she expected scum to be more likely to do something like that with their walls, which is scummy because she has had her vote on me all day yesterday, and this is the first thing she can articulate. I don't think she would let an entire day go to waste like that if she was town.

Yes, yes - Okay, that's useful. I haven't exactly found her play bendable throughout the entire game based on her vote switches

No (N/A) - I didn't. She voted following her top scumread, then immediately unvoted, then immediately voted again. She did not try to make a case on me. She did not try to defend Majiffy. She wanted to ride the wagon a little while so the lynch would go through, but then she changed her mind.

No, No - So mollie has more mentions in her ISO of mantis than she does of me, even including the latest bout. She is clearly buddying up to mantis whereas my interactions are a bit more ambiguous, so it makes no sense for her to attack me of buddying mantis at all if town. If she's scum, I'm beginning to buddy the person she was buddying as town and suggesting mollie as scum, and she definitely doesn't want that. So, she tries to put a stop on things as soon as possible.

Don't know - Of course you don't. Mollie said that I was getting better, that I was scummy but she didn't know why, and that she was going to go paranoid ballistic on me. She never explained why I was scum, and somehow got away with it? The scum intent should be clear here.

lol, you really are scum aren't you nacho. you felt off to me and I could not articulate why. you were most definitely out of step and then you tried to slide yourself in like a sleazy car salesman.

after acknowledging that I have a different playstyle and am used to a different format are you seriously going to push this argument? weak

Meet the many flavors of town mollie.

What we're seeing here obviously isn't ^^^this. By page 36 of Xenoblade, Mollie already had 76 posts, had already established a townblock. By something like page 3, mollie had already declared the ffery hydra pretty much confirmed scum. I am completely satisfied from what we've gotten out of the thread so far, I feel damn good about my reads after sleeping on them, and it's time for mollie-scum to die.

GiF, you have doubts on TiP-scum? Trust ffery and my read on mollie-Andrius.

[sangres]

Even compare the way she's been sorting out ffery this game to Xenoblade:

fery

why are you so quiet

fery and I are probably going to fight

do you even remotely understand why I am fucking freaking out that you are not signing your posts

I didn't like the way she called sven "dummy". as far as I know that particular loving endearment has been reserved for me but it is more that it is weirdly placed; she only gets that way when as scum, she hasn't really even done it as a special lately probably cos I have gotten better about spotting her special game and will leave her alone. to me she is saying the right stuff and the timing is right but she still feels a bit off. there is a detachment from everything that I do not like. she said in poetic justice that her play on this site is different but the only game we have played together on here is the pj game. I can push her a bit to get a better read but I will be honest, I am tired I am in too many games right now and I was sick for the better part of yesterday. the homestuck game kept putting my heart out of rhythm like I really cannot stand our fights when they get that bad and I know it is unpleasant for her too. I think we are both sick of the dynamic that we have been stuck in for over 2 years. I really don't like how detached she is but buldey just tweaked my towndar a bit and if he continues to do so then I am going to stick with my read which was to townread her. if I get a scumread off of her I will let you know but it will be a buldey/majiffy shitshow that this site has never seen the likes of that is why I was honestly considering replacing out when I told you you are not going to like what I have to say. if you get a town read on buldey and I do too then I am going to just accept that feri's town game is indeed very different on here.

the exchanges between her and sven for a moment smelled like scum theatre and reminded me a bit of her and sparkle in the homestuck game. sven reminds me a bit of me and I am surprised feri never mentioned that. especially with the "wtf is this shit" comment lol. I think it is super risk <little reward for scum to claim miller on d1 cos if there is a vig with half a brain they will make it nowhere near to endgame. miller/tracker on the other hand is a brilliant scum gambit cos it leaves a kernel of possible usefulness that would at least get him to midgame I mean sajin is already like "hey let him live til d3!" and he has a good point, but leaving a scum tracker in the game is REALLY dangerous cos increases scum's potential to find specials. scum would have to be really confident that they could convince town that they were town for realz and would require a lot of skill. I don't know sven so I do not know if he has that skill level or confidence or not.

I can keep going but honestly mollie and andy are just not town, or anything close to town.

[sangres]

What we're seeing here is that mollie is inactive and does not have time for this game. I don't think you're stupid enough not to consider that and be so fast to call her scum because she hasn't been obvtown yet.

Wisdom, I've played more games with mollie than I have with any other person on the site. Ffery has played something like hundreds of games with her. I think we know how to read her by now.

[sangres]

She does have the capacity to blindside me as scum, yes. But I haven't been wrong with a scumread on her yet and I don't think I'm suddenly wrong now.

[sangres]

What we're seeing here is that mollie is inactive and does not have time for this game. I don't think you're stupid enough not to consider that and be so fast to call her scum because she hasn't been obvtown yet.

I'm not calling her scum because she hasn't been obvtown yet. I'm calling her scum because this isn't her town meta or anything resembling her town meta.

[sangres]

She hasn't posted enough for you to be able to say that.

She's posted more than enough for me to be able to say that.

[sangres]

As in, very rarely do I have a read in a game where I can honestly and truly say that I am over 95% confident that a player will flip scum without outside knowledge, but scumreads on mollie end up looking like that. You can wait for her to come back and post, that's fine. You can pressure other people in the meantime, that's fine. We can wait.

[sangres]

She hasn't posted enough for you to be able to say that.

She sure as hell has. This is my second game with Andy and even I can see what pathetic weaksauce his wall was compared to the other game we played. But I wouldn't try to read Andy on the basis of 2-3 posts. I don't have nearly enough games with him.

I didn't expect it to be so easy to spot scum-mollie off the bat at MS. Maybe I should have. The last time we played where she was scum and I was town, I nailed her with fewer posts than she's made so far in this game. The whole of of that day 1 lasted 24 hours.

[sangres]

Why do you think Metal Sonic is worth lynching as opposed to anyone else playing?

[sangres]

He certainly hasn't posted enough in order for you to be scumreading him.

[sangres]

It takes you longer to sort her than it takes me or ffery to sort her. You realize that, right?

[sangres]

I might be talking about surface reasons for why I find them confirmed scum, but my read on them is currently not based on the hydra being overwhelming or lurky.

[sangres]

As in, very rarely do I have a read in a game where I can honestly and truly say that I am over 95% confident that a player will flip scum without outside knowledge, but scumreads on mollie end up looking like that. You can wait for her to come back and post, that's fine. You can pressure other people in the meantime, that's fine. We can wait.

[sangres]

wisdom
seriously

[sangres]

like, a heart to heart.
a man to man.

why don't you want to lynch mollie/andrius?

[sangres]

Why?

[sangres]

Because they've not posted enough = I don't have a good read on them = I don't lynch people that I don't have a good read on.
Plus I still find you scummy and you're pushing them, so yeah.

Well look at me waiting and look at mollie being useless.

this sonnavabitch is scum

Yes, but there's no reason not to lynch mollie-scum today.

There's only four names there. Out of those four, I would say Syryana and MrObvious are most likely town.

Who do you think scum are?

[sangres]

My push is an excuse for not playing the game? What do you think I've been doing?

[sangres]

Nacho, I've factored in Andy's post and I'm not exactly sure what to think of that slot.

Do you trust ffery and I to read mollie?

Mara, Mr Obvious last posts made me feel better about the slot. No real reason for scum to call you a VI over scum, especially in a game with 5 scum. That proves the read was genuine.

This doesn't make any sort of sense.

Look at this tunneling.
You know how much of a tunneler I am myself - do I do it blindly like this? I try to figure out people instead of spamming "x person is scum". Where has Metal Sonic ever tried to figure me out? He's just spamming "Wisdom is scum" and avoids to post any content, just like sangres is doing with mollie.

That's not all we've been doing at all. I'm waiting for mollie because I know she is scum and I'm pretty sure that'll become clear as hell whenever she actually comes into the thread.

A) I'm pushing sangres because Nacho does not feel like town-Nacho and their push on a so far inactive mollie is weird given they're both capable of reading her accurately when she posts more. Not because they're pushing someone with a low postcount.

We both know how many posts we need to read her, Wisdom.
We know how we read mollie better than you do.
I am focusing on her because I believe it will become clearer to everyone that mollie is scum once she posts more. I am also interacting elsewhere, which you would notice if you ever read my posts. I don't know why you're trying to push a lurker when you also know you will be able to read mollie when she posts more but instead you're focusing on a Metal Sonic lynch even though people are telling you he usually behaves like this.

Joining the largest wagon, because he's 100% sure TIP is scum. No reasons given. Okay, I can buy that as a reaction test, I've joined the largest wagons in RVS a couple of times myself for that reason - except he never followed up on anything from that test if that's the case.

Irrelevant.

All of these posts talk about hydras and who is in them. No content at all.

He's looking to figure out who is in the hydras. No content, but a clear purpose.

More spam about me being scum.

Why does any of this matter in MS being scum?

The sheeping, not clear case, that's pretty much metal sonic to a T.

[sangres]

i just iso'd myself


its shit tooo

but im still going to vote Wisdom from now onwards until he gets betrayed by his team or lynched

What are your other reads?

[sangres]

Are you fucking kidding me, Nacho? No, this isn't town-you, fuck this. Irrelevant this, irrelevant that.. did you realize I ISO'd all of his posts? Do you realize my point is his total content? Where the fuck do you see content in there? Where the fuck does anyone see town in there?
NO.

We've tried to tell you that this is how Metal Sonic plays, many times.

[sangres]

Fuck this. You know better than this to realize my reasons on Metal Sonic have nothing to do with lurking. Hell, you know better than this to realize I'd never push someone because of lurking. I don't lynch without thinking someone is scum. You are not N or anyone who sees me for the first time and freaks out. Fuck. This. You are scum.

AND YOU KNOW THAT I WOULDN'T PUSH MOLLIE JUST FOR LURKING
YOU KNOW HOW I OPERATE IN REGARDS TO HER
AND YOU ARE TELLING ME "OH YOU ARE DOING NOTHING BUT SPAMMING MOLLIE IS SCUM"
BUT YOU KNOW AND HAVE SEEN MY THOUGHT PROCESS EVERYWHERE ELSE
AND YOU WOULD KNOW, IF YOU'D BEEN LOOKING AT MY SUSPECTS, THAT SHIT HASN'T REALLY CHANGED ON THOSE FRONTS

[sangres]

i've told you many many many times that I am not just pushing mollie for lurking

[sangres]

you ask "why not let her post more?"
i point out that i am letting her post more. i'm just making her return harder for her as scum.

[sangres]

you say "you know you can read mollie more accurately with more posts"
i point out that i pegged her EXTREMELY confidently in how 2 and a half friends banged your mother with less posts
and that i know how many posts it takes to read her
and you scream no she hasn't posted enough
no you're not following with my reads
no there's no way you pegged her because that's impossible!!!

[sangres]

And wow, you're arguing semantics. I'll make it that fucking pretty clear again: SHE HAS NOT POSTED ENOUGH FOR YOU TO PEG HER, NO MATTER WHAT THE FUCK YOU SAY. You're only insisting on that because you're scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28174

how many posts did pirate mollie have that game

[sangres]

You are solely focusing on mollie instead of playing the game as you normally do.

i focus on mollie when she is scum. i get mollie lynched when she is scum.

[sangres]

left the thread oh andy posted? theyre still scum, ill ignore his post".

1) Why policy ffery? The only game I played with her she was preeeeeetty weak but that could have been a simple hydra issue.
2) How'd he claim scum?

1) Joke
2) Many people have asked that question.

You seem pretty firmly set that she's scum, since the entire post is pretty much assuming so.
Do not like.
Also.
You ignore the fact that I too, am here.

Why does it matter who is here and who is not? I can read you both pretty well; a strong scumread on either means the whole btn ship goes down.

Personally I'm assuming she went to bed as it was 11pm my time so that means 2am her time.
Yeah. I like that theory.
No tinfoil required.

She probably did. That doesn't change anything :/

cabd seems town

For #552, I assume? Why?

Oh hey look.
A last hurrah from the ffery/nacho slot.
ITS K
WE CAN SALVAGE THIS
OR DIE TRYING

This is your response to our #790/#791?

Loving Obvious' #832.

Because he talked about his life? Are you kidding me?

SO MUCH GODDAMN NOISE. Seriously when I have time next (tomorrow night) I'm digging into his shit because there has to be shit buried in that horrible WALLSOFPOSTS. Don't need a bloodhound to see that.

I see you ignored our comments on N.

Wisdom had a good point with SCUM NEED SOMETHING TO HOLD ON TO AND FOCUS.

What are we focusing on? You, even though we've been waiting for you to do shit for most of the game? TiP? MrObvious? Cabd? Or have we been too focused on our scumreads? Or is this just a bullshit point

So I've got a nice solid towngroup for me so GIVEN SETUP I've got to be doing damn good at this point.

Wisdom, Cabd, Metal Sonic, Mutley, MrObvious.
Cabd read and MrObvious reads will be most important for you to explain, but hell, toss in a Metal Sonic read explanation aswell.

FUCKING SIGN YOUR POSTS.

I guess you should talk more closely with mollie about the game then.

[sangres]

And wow, you're arguing semantics. I'll make it that fucking pretty clear again: SHE HAS NOT POSTED ENOUGH FOR YOU TO PEG HER, NO MATTER WHAT THE FUCK YOU SAY. You're only insisting on that because you're scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28174

how many posts did pirate mollie have that game

please tell me how many posts pirate mollie had this game i am honestly extremely curious

Votecount 1.42:

TheIrishPope - [2] - Syryana, MrObvious
Wisdom - [2] - Metal Sonic, Mutleyddmc
sangres - [1] - TheIrishPope
Syryana - [1] - GuyInFreezer
better than nachos - [1] - sangres
MrObvious - [1] - AdoboNation
Metal Sonic - [1] - Wisdom

Not voting - [3] - better than nachos, N, Cabd

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 6 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-08-10 22:32:45)