Micro 213 - Scumhunter's Speed [GAME OVER]

[Fifty Ways]

I refuse to vote.

[Fifty Ways]

vote lucky

For encouraging further RVS in a game with such strict deadlines.

[Fifty Ways]

vote lucky

For encouraging further RVS in a game with such strict deadlines.

Messing around for a few hours isn't bad, granted deadline is small but don't forget Mafias can talk for the first 48 hours of this game, in my opinion we shouldn't give them a clear idea of our gameplay and just confuse them so they can't read a roundplan, but that's just my thought.

lol your posting style is still so too much

vote lucky

For encouraging further RVS in a game with such strict deadlines.

So in other words policy lynch? You didn't say it was scummy, just that I am wasting time (which I disagree with). Town is allowed to be light hearted too so my conclusion is that your voting priority is just who you don't like the play style of.

No, I think you are deliberately extending RVS to prevent any ground from being gained by the town quickly enough to successfully lynch anyone.

Bert speaks the truth. I am the scummiest thing in a game usually.

Just claimed scum. Let's get this wagon rolling, guys.

[Fifty Ways]

For the record: if I vote for you and cite a reason for it without saying the word policy, it's usually because I think you are scum and want you to die

[Fifty Ways]

I'm saying that because lucky insinuated that my vote for him was based on policy.
My votes should never be interpreted that way if I don't say so.

[Fifty Ways]

Oh? Would it have been more protown to keep the circle of votes going like you said? Would you then have better reads?

[Fifty Ways]

If I have "plenty of scum points", why aren't you voting for me?

[Fifty Ways]

OK, but you are taking his words too seriously. It's RVS.

I did it to end RVS.

[Fifty Ways]

Let the record please show that my vote is now primarily justified by at least the following two points, instead of the previous one:

— lucky's first post was antitown, demonstrated no interest in advancing the game to a stage where scum can be found, and frankly sounds fake in its boisterousness

– More significantly, lucky's first post on page two disingenuously implicated that I was scum
I say disingenuous because it's clear from the absence of a vote on me right now despite a) there apparently being "plenty of scum points" against me and b) lucky having very few other reads about other players and c) lucky's willingness to vote wantonly merely a single page ago THAT
1) lucky did not truly think I was scummy (scum omniscience) AND/OR
2) lucky is not interested in advancing wagons on 'scummy' people (scum win condition)
both of which imply quite inarguably that he is not town

lucky is scum and must die today

[Fifty Ways]

Hey, kcdaspot. READ PAGE TWO.

And if you have a problem with my case, argue with it on its merits, not its circumstances.

[Fifty Ways]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fifty Ways
Forcing it wayyyyy too much for my liking.

Bert is the towniest thing since towned bread.

Explain how I am/was "forcing it" and how "forcing it" makes me scummy.

[Fifty Ways]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fifty Ways
Forcing it wayyyyy too much for my liking.

Bert is the towniest thing since towned bread.

Explain how I am/was "forcing it" and how "forcing it" makes me scummy.

Maybe because scum force lynches they know are wrong to get a mislynch.

There were two parts to that question.

[Fifty Ways]

Notice as the scum avoids responding to my case, hoping it'll just go away if he plays cool.

[Fifty Ways]

Let the record please show that my vote is now primarily justified by at least the following two points, instead of the previous one:

— lucky's first post was antitown, demonstrated no interest in advancing the game to a stage where scum can be found, and frankly sounds fake in its boisterousness

– More significantly, lucky's first post on page two disingenuously implicated that I was scum
I say disingenuous because it's clear from the absence of a vote on me right now despite a) there apparently being "plenty of scum points" against me and b) lucky having very few other reads about other players and c) lucky's willingness to vote wantonly merely a single page ago THAT
1) lucky did not truly think I was scummy (scum omniscience) AND/OR
2) lucky is not interested in advancing wagons on 'scummy' people (scum win condition)
both of which imply quite inarguably that he is not town

lucky is scum and must die today[/quote]

Add to the above case that lucky is weaseling.

[Fifty Ways]

we can lynch maki mañani

[Fifty Ways]

guysss

[Fifty Ways]

guysss

guysss what

you're just letting lucky get away with it

[Fifty Ways]

we can lynch maki mañani

Can't you like let me chill a bit. Mafias have access to the mafia QT for 48 hours, I don't feel like discussing game stuff yo.

This is such a weak reaction to being (barely) pressured.

"Mafia, they gonna talk game about me, help me...leave me alone till the 48 hours elapses"

Stalling tactic is a no-go...more likely "HOLD ON, let me go talk to my buddies and see what strategy for defending myself is"

Vote: Makiavel

no, maki is just bad

Trust me, I've mislynched him before.

[Fifty Ways]

we can lynch maki mañani

Can't you like let me chill a bit. Mafias have access to the mafia QT for 48 hours, I don't feel like discussing game stuff yo.

This is such a weak reaction to being (barely) pressured.

"Mafia, they gonna talk game about me, help me...leave me alone till the 48 hours elapses"

Stalling tactic is a no-go...more likely "HOLD ON, let me go talk to my buddies and see what strategy for defending myself is"

Vote: Makiavel

no, maki is just bad

Trust me, I've mislynched him before.

meta is ghey

oh ok go ahead
see what happens

[Fifty Ways]

Lol no. I legitimately think that discussing the game when they could easily think of a counter plan is stupid.

Counter plan to what??

[Fifty Ways]

damn maki
making a big deal about every word a person says is how you play the game
stop being so jittery

[Fifty Ways]

that case is terrible

[Fifty Ways]

Xegarus... you know you should say why you think I am scum because right now you are saying why Maki is scum but voting me which is a bit odd. Unless Maki is your scum partner and you just don't want to vote him, then that line of logic works.

He's voting for you because you are avoiding my case. He's said that twice now.

[Fifty Ways]

I'm mostly ignoring fifty because I don't like getting into a defensive posture, wasting my time answering those questions and not reading others.

No, you're ignoring me because you know that what you've done is indefensible.

[Fifty Ways]

How so?

you're criticizing the quality of maki's play, not demonstrating how it exposes his alliance

[Fifty Ways]

I'm not helping scum out.

[Fifty Ways]

(try opening the spoilers)

[Fifty Ways]

gah why

[Fifty Ways]

let the record show that lucky has already forfeited his ability to ignore the case due to its supposed baselessness, etcetera

[Fifty Ways]

i use this alter ego when i don't want to play like a scientist / terribly

[Fifty Ways]

no one in this thread lacks a good reason to vote lucky
and yes i am talking to you potential bussers as well

[Fifty Ways]

jkm
if i wanted to coach maki and we we scumbuds, i would have done it in the first 48 hours of the Day

I don't think maki is town because I've mislynched him; i think maki is town because the same reasons he's being voted now are the same reasons he got mislynched in my last game.

I justified my vote when I made it, and began pointing out how lucky's further posting justified keeping it there. My case is the least bullshit case of all of them in this thread; it is not synthetic in the least.

[Fifty Ways]

I lack a good reason. I think any suspicion there is stale perceived scumminess coupled with tunnel vision/confirmation bias...
Care to convince me...?

See my currently three-point detailed case. Sir.

P-Edit: Total WIFOM nonsense. I was talking about you coaching a specific bit of Maki's play, which happened more than 48 hours after the day started...

all of maki's posts are jittery; don't you see?

At most that should read "I think it's a null tell because..." Calling Maki town for it is ridiculous.

no, pretty sure it should read "I think he's not scum because..." since his play was town last game and is like his play this game. Nice try.

I was talking about the RVS conversation and vote seeming synthetic.

It was designed to end RVS. I had to force it to stop bullshit circle-voting.

And "lucky's further posting justified keeping it there" is pretty much in line with me thinking you're either tunnelling as scum or suffering from confirmation bias.

This would be a somewhat valid deduction if I didn't have a 3-point case explaining why lucky is scummy, and if you could point out that the case is substanceless.

But even lucky can't do that.

The fact of the matter is that I'd vote for someone else if lucky had done nothing else scummy from pages 2-5.

[Fifty Ways]

do i need to quote my case?
i recognize that some people in this thread have problems reading isos

[Fifty Ways]

iso agnosia, if you will

[Fifty Ways]

The one that was made early on and was reasonable at that point in the game, but since you've just said "oh look that fits into the case I've already made so I'll continue to only look at lucky"? Yes, that one. Hence "stale suspicion with tunnelling/confirmation bias".
Don't get me wrong, I hardly think lucky is confirmed town. I just think the extent your pushing the case is somewhere between shortsighted and scummy.

you need to learn to evaluate cases on their merits like good townies do

[Fifty Ways]

Yes, I do see. And I'd rather people didn't point out scummy things to potential scum. Hence "coaching".

it's not scummy; its maki
please keep up

[Fifty Ways]

So you're extending "Maki is playing like Maki" to "Maki was playing like Maki one time he was town. Maki is playing like Maki this time, so he must be town". Forgive me for not getting on board.

no, I'm saying that maki plays this way as town, and is playing that way right now. Come on.

At the time you seemed to think it was unreasonable of me to think it was forced…

No, it's unreasonable to call my case synthetic.

Things with substance can still suffer from confirmation bias.

So you are admitting that my case has substance but are criticizing me for sticking to it.

If you’re town, then there are 3 other scum in the game. You’re saying you can’t see anything else that might be worth scrutiny?

We can only lynch one player a Day, and we only have a week to do it. I devote my time accordingly.

[Fifty Ways]

ever since I posted my case, lucky has been active lurking and avoiding confrontation just like scum always do

he's hoping that someone changes the subject; it is my job as town to make sure the subject is always lucky until lucky gives me reason to think it should not be lucky

Staying focused on whom one thinks is scum in a game with a 7-day deadline is not irrational or scummy; it's optimal play
I'm not the one in this thread doing it wrong.

[Fifty Ways]

You still are failing to evaluate my case on its merits.

[Fifty Ways]

Condescension to try to make it seem like my opinions are worth less than yours aside, let me spell out my evaluation for you, because you don't seem to be getting it:

Condesension follows from a belief about your opinions, not a desire to cast your opinions in a certain way.

At the point in time you made your case against Lucky, the content of the case didn't overly bother me, as it was early days so there wasn't a wealth of information to go on. However, since then, more information about everyone has come to light, but all you've done is slotted Lucky's behaviour into the points you'd already made, and not gone any further than that.

No, all of my points stand independent of one another. The scumminess of lucky's active lurking is not contingent on the quality of my case, and the disingenuousness of lucky's page 2 post is independent of what happened on page 2.

That is my evaluation of your case on its merits, including saying it had some substance but blindly sticking to it is poor play.

No, this is an evaluation of my thinking process, not my case.

[Fifty Ways]

Please tell me you understand the difference between necessary and sufficient points. It's not enough to say Maki plays this way as town therefor Maki is town. You need to also be convinced, and to convince others, that Maki doesn't play this way as scum. At the moment your case has a point that is necessary to be able to read Maki as town, but it's not sufficient to be able to call Maki town. As such, it should be null. Please keep up.

No, characterizing something as town-maki's play implicitly excludes its opposite. At this point, all I need to convince people is that maki isn't the lynch for today.

If you knew you were forcing it, why wasn't this post just the question "Explain how forcing it makes me scummy?"
Secondly, I've only ever said that at the time your case seemed synthetic. I currently think the fact that you're sticking to your case so blindly is the dodgy part.

Two things: the question was about what you meant by forcing.
I am not sticking to my case blindly. I've explained the reasoning for my case, and the conditions under which I'll drop it.

You've failed to explain how sticking to a case is scummy.

I'm not saying you should be voting for multiple people, but you've made your case on Lucky and have your vote there. Fine, I think it's nonsense, but whatever. It doesn't mean you can't also hunt elsewhere. You can still use your time to hunt while also advocating a Lucky lynch...

I don't think you understand. I don't need to make any posts to hunt for scum; that occurs implicitly as I read posts. I AM ALWAYS HUNTING.

[Fifty Ways]

I don't think your case is very strong based on the environment in which your making it, so I think it has little merit. Better?

Not one bit.

[Fifty Ways]

Not enough to stop talking about lucky.

Aren't you concerned the least bit about how lucky has basically stopped posting and since I posted my case on him, and has explicitly refused to answer it?

How would you feel if I ignored everything you said about my scumminess, suddenly stopped posting content, and no one cared??

[Fifty Ways]

EXACTLY. THAT IS THE POINT OF LUCKY'S PLAN.

JK, lucky said I had won scumpoints (and additionally that no one else has), but didn't vote for me. Why do you think that is so?
Had he suddenly gotten cautious about placing votes now that it was page 2?

JK, lucky said he was ignoring me so he could focus on finding scum. What has he done that even looks like this? What has he done to help us all agree on a lynch?

These are two instances where it's easier to explain lucky's inconsistencies as lies.

How is it that you feel you can dismiss all of this as confirmation bias while agreeing that what I'm saying is substantive, and not grounded in delusion??

[Fifty Ways]

Seriously. Can anyone in this thread show me any data points in the last 6 pages as or more compelling than the combination of the two above? Anyone? If you can, I'll move my vote and tunnel uncompromisingly on lucky tomorrow.

[Fifty Ways]

Right now I can basically only read you and Bert because you are the only two posting. Your insistence on me for a ridiculous reason is buying you plenty of scum points.

So I have scum points. No one else has scum points. Lucky is voting for...JKMathews.

This post is a disingenuous lieee.

[Fifty Ways]

I DON'T THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE FOR YOU TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF LUCKY. I THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE FOR YOU TO NOT BE LOOKING FOR POTENTIAL SECONDARY LYNCHES WHEN WE'RE THIS CLOSE TO THE DEADLINE AND WE ALL NEED TO AGREE ON A LYNCH.

I'm asking why you (and everyone else) aren't voting with me.

You agree that lucky is scummy, but he's hardly on your radar. Can

you

meet my challenge in #131? If not, why aren't you voting with me?

[Fifty Ways]

Please tell me you understand the difference between necessary and sufficient points. It's not enough to say Maki plays this way as town therefor Maki is town. You need to also be convinced, and to convince others, that Maki doesn't play this way as scum. At the moment your case has a point that is necessary to be able to read Maki as town, but it's not sufficient to be able to call Maki town. As such, it should be null. Please keep up.

No, characterizing something as town-maki's play implicitly excludes its opposite. At this point, all I need to convince people is that maki isn't the lynch for today.

I actually completely missed this post. The rest of the conversation about your case on lucky has evolved past this post, but as for the Maki stuff:
Your statement is only true if the case your making is "Maki plays like this

only

when he's town", but that's not what you've ever said. As far as I can tell, the case you're making is "Maki has played like this when he was town". There's a very important difference between these two.
In case you're still not getting it: "Player X makes posts in English when he's town" doesn't equate to "Player X is posting in English and so is probably town".

This is totally irrelevant to the point of my statement — to affirm the inanity of voting maki.

How about this — I'll declare no contest with everything in this post. Go ahead. You're right.

But no one here has any good reason to find maki suspicious, and especially not to lynch him.

[Fifty Ways]

I'll just let whoever's set to be lynched get lynched and start my campaign all over again, at full force, the following day again and again until one of four conditions is satisfied 1) lucky stops being scummy, 2) someone is more scummy than lucky, 3) I die, 4) he dies.

Hopefully we can deal with this within the week.

Until that post, you were arguing that Maki should be read as town. What changed?

Oh, that's easy. I was simply

compelled

by the power of your totally right argument.

I may not be able to provide a concise case on why I'd rather lynch my suspects

oh? is your analysis of the most scummy posts of last six pages so sophisticated that it can't fit in a post?

[Fifty Ways]

You know I'll move my vote if you give me a good reason to think lucky isn't the scummiest person here. <3

[Fifty Ways]

LUCKY

WHY DON'T YOU JUST RESPOND TO MY CASE???

You are giving me every reason to keep tunnelling you. DO SOMETHING.

[Fifty Ways]

Funny that you're accusing Lucky of not answering your questions then you go and give sarcastic crap as an answer to a question I asked you. Either what you answered was true and you just said it sarcastically because you're full of sour grapes, or you straight-up refused to answer my question. Either way, please clarify.

I told you already that I've declared no contest.

Seriously, what's with the tone? Saying I can't concisely say it means that I'm struggling to put it into words well, not that I think that I'm "so sophisticated". That's such a bizarre reaction...

It's completely ridiculous to say you have good reasons to vote for someone, but can't put those reasons into words right now. That's why I used that tone.

Also, surely you understand why I'm calling you stubborn? To get a lynch before deadline, we're going to have to come to an agreement on lynching somebody who may not be everyone's first choice. Why do you think you're exempt from this? It's incredibly anti-town to not be willing to try to get a lynch happening that you're at least happy with, even if it's not your number one preference...

Um, yeah. I'm quite aware that I am being stubborn. That's my strategy for getting lucky dead.

It's not antitown because it is an exercise of leverage to get scum dead.

I see that still no one can explain why someone else is more worthy of my vote than lucky. You guys are just frustrating.

IF YOU WANT ME TO MOVE MY VOTE, GIVE ME A REASON TO
That's for lucky and for everyone who thinks someone else should be lynched.

[Fifty Ways]

4-way tie
how exciting

Here is what I think would be an ideal procedure for us to determine who we will eventually reach a plurality on:
1. One proponent from each wagon states why he is a part of this wagon, intending to persuade others to join him.
2. Someone somewhere actually leaves their wagon to join another.

This seems rather straightforward.

[Fifty Ways]

JKMatthews, can you start?

Why are you on the bert wagon, and why should I join you?

[Fifty Ways]

Right now, sammy's due to die, then maki, then lucky.

Damn It

[Fifty Ways]

I'm pointing out how the lynch will be resolved. Sammy reached two votes first.

Care to explain why you aren't answering my question?

[Fifty Ways]

oh well that's reasonable

[Fifty Ways]

vote Bert

Bert, here are your options:
1) Vote for lucky
2) Do something protown
3) abstain

Choice of 3) will result in your lynch.

Good luck.

[Fifty Ways]

Pretty happy with that.

vote Samuel

vote Bert

Sammy, here are your options:
1) Vote for lucky
2) Do something protown
3) abstain

Choice of 3) will result in your lynch.

Good luck.

[Fifty Ways]

Why did you even sign up for this game, lucky?

[Fifty Ways]

Ok. Maki. Lucky.

We are about a day away from deadline. You both are actively lurking.

Didn't you join this game to, er, play it?

[Fifty Ways]

vote lucky

I'm actually doubting my read now, but it is still the case that no better cases have been presented and it's clear that even if lucky is town, he's one of the most useless among them.

[Fifty Ways]

I am in full agreement that every wagon active has some intelligible, and even intelligent basis.
I am very happy to treat the targets of these wagons with pressure in order to force the lucky lynch I've been advocating since p1
Or, at the very least, have some power over the direction of D1 as a lynch decider.
I didn't expect to actually achieve lucky's lynch and was quite okay with merely lynching sammy or whatshisface.
But ideals are ideals.
Lucky's recent posts have wiped some of the gloss off of this ideal,
But its shine is still brighter than that of the other wagons here,
And now it's within reach.
So I swipe for it.

[Fifty Ways]

i think ur avatar is very cute

[Fifty Ways]

I am receptive to your suggestion but need more concrete reasons to believe a maki lynch would be superior to a lucky lynch. Can you deliver?

[Fifty Ways]

I'm afraid your case just reminded me why I'm not voting maki.

Being overly self-conscious is just a tic of his.

[Fifty Ways]

oh maki,
ur so idiosyncratic

[Fifty Ways]

You know, because of the setup it may be advantageous to mislynch D1.

[Fifty Ways]

a successful lynch means losing 1 scum and probably our best town
a mislynch means losing 1 scum and one player so bad he got mislynxhed

[Fifty Ways]

If you don't vote lucky, tomorrow I will tunnel on you.

[Fifty Ways]

we will never lynch him

[Fifty Ways]

boy im starting to see some pretty strong connections between kcdaspot and lucky
what do u think bert?

[Fifty Ways]

In 3 hours lucky dies no matter what.

[Fifty Ways]

If lucky is town, we're actually in a better spot; we'll be trading one very bad townie for scum.

If lucky's scum, then I'm probably screwed. Oh, well. Let me post some reads.

[Fifty Ways]

Samuel L Jackson
Bertkerberos TOWN
Xegarus*
Makiavel* TOWN
Kcdaspot*
Fifty Ways TOWN
Lucky2u*
JKMatthews* TOWN

Two players dead by D2, one town, one scum.

5 v 3 -> 4 v 2

There are three unknowns left at this point, and room for 2 errors. One of those can be maki (let's face it), the other will be the last town among the bunch of non-town reads — Sam, Xeg, Kcda. But once we lynch these three we will surely win.

At the very least, I'll be able to say "I told you so" at endgame.

[Fifty Ways]

Also, because of the seniority rule, it's probably important to stake out wagons early in the Day so that a scum-driven plurality will never win tow.

[Fifty Ways]

Oh, no, it allows for a maki lynch. I totally disagree with it, but sure.

I think that the chances of my town reads being wrong are extremely low, but it's always healthy to leave room in a grand plan for lynching either that-one-player-whose-been-fooling-you-until-now or that-one-player-people-have-strong-scumreads-on-and-will-probably-become-demoralized-and-easier-to-persuade-upon-that-player's-death.

[Fifty Ways]

Oh
It seems i both missed the white flag possibility and misinterpreted the seniority rule
yeahh

[Fifty Ways]

I feel like we have enough consensus townreads that we're destined to win either way. We're bound to have even better reads as the game goes on, and there are no venge mechanics or PRs to make the process more swingy.

[Fifty Ways]

I knew he was acting weird <3

I don't think the NK rules Maki out in and of itself, but there is also the fact that kc stuck to the maki wagon like glue. We'll see how he plays today.

[Fifty Ways]

VOTE: Maki

I have zero motivation to play this game.
You guys should probably lynch me so I stop being dead weight.

Can't you just replace out? We really don't have time for this.

Also lynching you won't make you any less dead or any less of a weight.

[Fifty Ways]

maki has a bit less trepidation about the mafia's talking powers today...

[Fifty Ways]

kcdaspot has a history of using his votes to fuck with later VCA

[Fifty Ways]

I hope these wallposts aren't substanceless.