Who is responsible for avoiding short nights?

[Mr Stoofer]

I almost screwed up modding Newbie 303 by having a very short night. The scum (Balckberry) sent in the kill as soon as the game went to night and I started the next day within a few hours. This enabled the town to narrow down the possible scum to those who were on the site during the short night:

Click here

. As it happened, the town didn't follow through this line of enquiry and the scum won.

The question is: whose responsibility is this? Is it the scum's responsibility to delay sending in their kill or ask the mod to delay the new day? Or should the mod take it on himself to delay starting the new day in such a case?

In other words: was this my fault or Blackberry's?



[I accept at once that in a Newbie Game where the scum is not IC, the mod should point out the problem to the scum if they are not IC.]

[mith]

I generally have a minimum period for night. Aside from the information problem you just posted about, players occasionally change their minds over the course of night. As my night deadlines are usually 72 hours, my minimum length for night is 48 hours. And of course, if someone requests the whole 72 hours, I'll wait until then.

(This habit likely comes from modding meatworld games; the mod's interaction with the players during night can give away a lot of unintended information if the mod isn't careful.)

[Zindaras]

I made the exact same mistake in the first game I ever modded (I think that was a 15-minute night or something). In Newbie 297, I had the same situation, with Shanba sending in some quick kills. I just posted that I put a minimum of 24 hours for night and avoided it that way.

[Fiasco]

Yet another reason to allow pre-sending.

Aside from the information problem you just posted about, players occasionally change their minds over the course of night.

Then they shouldn't send.

[mith]

I would much rather someone send a choice early that they might later change than not send a choice early and then miss the deadline.

As for pre-sending, it doesn't solve the information problem, unless pre-sending is required (i.e. no night, which I don't think is a good idea either). Some players will pre-send/send quickly, some players will take most/all of the deadline.

[mith]

(I think waiting on choices after the "deadline" is just as bad, btw. It potentially gives away that a lurker has a choice, and nights should last a reasonable length of time.)

[Glork]

My minimum is always 24 hours. I figure that players should be posting or checking on-site about once per day, and I feel that they should be prepared to make choices fairly promptly. If all choices are in early (but after the 24 hour minimum), I will start day early. I agree with Fiasco's stance in that, if a player thinks they might change, they should not send in their choice. While I *do* allow players to switch choices, I do not see that as a valid reason to refrain from starting the next day.

My deadlines are pseudo-strict. If I set a deadline for 8:30 but I don't check MS until, say, 9:15, I'd accept any choices sent in before 9:15... but I do not wait for lurkers. I've entertained the thought of extending a deadline (by 24 more hours) if players request it during night via PM, but in my modding experience so far, it hasn't been an issue.


EDIT: I also interpret a sent mafia kill as an indication that the Mafia have sufficiently talked with each other. If they want more time to night-talk, they should hold off on sending in their choice.

[EmpTyger]

I would argue that limiting undesirable metagame influences falls under the mod’s purview. But moreover, consider that not only does this indicate who might be mafia, but it also indicates the absence of powerroles. And this is a factor that the mafia clearly could not have any knowledge of, nor should they have control over. So imho this has to be 100% the mod’s responsibility.

[petroleumjelly]

1.) If the Mafia send me their kill, this indicates that the Mafia have night-talked and hence are comfortable with their kill. For other roles which are singular (such as Doctors, Cops, etc.), I try to keep night going for at least 48 hours so that if they have a sudden burst of insight, they can always switch their night-target so long as I haven't opened up the game.

2.) However, if I open the game immediately after a mafiate has sent a kill choice, this gives away too much information in the sense that:

-> A.) The town will know the mafia is active (or at least was on or around the site during the night)
-> B.) The mafia knows that if there are any town power roles, they must have been active during the night

As such, I try to make all of my nights in all of my games have a minimum of 48 hours... and I also make sure that nobody happens to be on vacation with no access during that time so that they cannot be 'cleared' through circumstance. Even if that does happen, I will often PM these players ahead of time and ask if they would like to send in an

early

night-choice.

Overall:

The mafia has a duty to hold off sending a kill if they wish for night to be longer for discussion reasons,

but

the mod

always

has a duty to not give circumstantial information to the players if s/he can help it.

[Blackberry]

The mafia has a duty to hold off sending a kill if they wish for night to be longer for discussion reasons

This doesn't apply if there is a single mafia.

[spectrumvoid]

I'm a new mod. This thread has been good reading, and I'll go with the 48 hours. From my experience as scum, I generally take at least 24 if there's more than 1 scum. Reason being we need time to discuss, and it takes time for both/3/4 of us to come to a decision.

[Mr. Flay]

This is a good thread.

+1, Insightful

I generally go with a minimum of 25 hours Night, but for a very different reason until I read this thread. It actually helps keep the spreadsheet I use to track player activity from getting screwed up.

I almost always wait 48 hours anyway though, and sometimes longer if it's a weekend. I like to keep the illusion that there might be more roles sending in choices than there actually are, but more than 72 hours and people start getting impatient...

[Mr Stoofer]

This is a good thread.

+1, Insightful