Mini 1484 - Pick Your Partners (Game Over)

[TheGarantula]

VOTE: DrDolittle
Only werewolves can talk to animals.

[TheGarantula]

While I'm sure that sharing our preferences might help, it would kind of run the fun.

[TheGarantula]

I'm on my phone so I'm not going to quote specific posts for now. I'll make a better post tomorrow, bit I figured with the speed of this game it'd be better to reply now too.

Anyway, my post regarding the idea about the lists was meant to illustrate my distaste with it, regardless of its possible benefits to town. In my opinion it's like looking up algorithms to a Rubik's cube. I play mafia on here for fun; winning is a bonus. I didn't say why it might not help because I don't care whether it would or not.

I'm going to be looking at my wagon closely. I've made 1 post outside RVS and already have 4 votes. That's fairly suspect IMO

[TheGarantula]

This game is so fast. It's hard to keep up with.

First off, to all those saying that claiming lists is somehow "gaming the system", get over yourself.

What? What was the point of saying this?

Anyway, I'm going to look at my flash wagon, because I think it's likely that at least one of those votesndidn't come from town.

Spoiler: My Wagon

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garantula

Discuss

This is just to cause discussion; there isn't anything scummy about it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garantula

Discuss

DING DING DING DING DING

Vote: Garantula

It DIDN'T?

Now I'm confused.

There are valid reasons why we shouldn't claim our lists, as you mentioned in a post that I'm not gonna bother scrolling up to cite. TheGarantula chose not to address any of those issues and instead argue that claiming lists would "ruin the fun". He even agrees that a mass list claim "might help". If he thinks it will be helpful, then he should have no problem doing it. If he has a problem doing it, then it should be a better reason than some e-honor "ruining the fun" excuse.

This is a theme game. Discussion about the mechanics is an inevitable part of it. TheGarantula wants that avenue shut down, NOT because of town reasons (i.e. it may not actually help the town) but because of scum-motivated reasons (i.e. "I don't want to get caught THAT way".

I assumed you were thinking similar thoughts.

Although I disagree with his reasoning, and I don't think he interpreted some of my post the way I meant it, I don't think it's a purposeful misrepresentation. I don't think these posts are scummy.

While I'm sure that sharing our preferences might help, it would kind of run the fun.

Unvote, Vote TheGar

No given explanation, but it can be inferred that he's sheeping Haschel. I don't like this vote, but since he hasn't posted since it I'm not sure how much he would have elaborated or how seriously he would have stuck to it.

I told Titus I changed my vote because I was bored and it might've started conversation. Sorry if you thought there was reason.

But your reason does make sense. I'll hop on dat, nothing better to do.

VOTE: TheGarantula

I'm not so sure about this one. Blatant sheeping, but seeing as he's done other scum hunting since I don't think it makes him scummy.

With the votes being 3-3 between two players, The Pjovek is a man of weighing decisions.

He decides on the spider.

VOTE: TheGargantula

This is one of the worst votes, especially considering this post:

So yes, you are scummier than the people that refuse to share the lists because "it's too easy".
Yes, it's easy as shit. I'm not against an ez win.

And while people refusing it is usually lame, it's not downright scum.

You're painting the situation as something it just isn't. And then you try to lynch me on that basis.
Yeah, that means you're scum.

What I did wasn't scummy, but he voted me for it?

It's not a crime to bust a cool rhyme.
I'm town and I'll say it without a frown.
Also, I guess I have to weigh who would want to be other people's partners.
I think

Vote: Garantula

is fair enough.
Getting any scum is good, and I suspect that I am town with Titus, DBK, and Muttley.

Here's another person hopping on to my wagon for what can only be assumed the same reasoning as the others: that I didn't want to discuss the lists and how they influenced the setup of the game. I don't like how he's comfortable hopping in as 5th on a wagon with such little reasoning.

Rather than setup speculation, which gets us nowhere and scum will want to milk to their own ends, why don't we, y'know, actually play the game.

So now

he

doesn't want to talk about the setup of the game? Very odd, seeing as he just voted me for the same thing.

TL;DR: Varsoon and Pjovek's votes give me the heebie jeebies.
VOTE: Varsoon

FOS: Pjovek

Also, could someone define PoE? What does it stand for?

[TheGarantula]

Varsoon has this magnetic pull that makes his town actions seem scummy and his scummy actions seem town. :S

Could you elaborate on this some more? Or do you have any specific games in mind that we could look at?

I know that Pjovek and Garantula were near the bottom of my list,
I'm town,
So I can discern they both probably aren't with me, since they wouldn't have any reasons to put me at the top of their lists, since we don't know each other.

Vote: Pjovek

You're at the bottom of my list, and your interactions are bad.

Rather than setup speculation, which gets us nowhere and scum will want to milk to their own ends, why don't we, y'know, actually play the game.

Pjovek's interactions are pinging my scumdar.
He should explain the mental process behind them.

So you've nullified half of your reasoning for voting Pjovek (The crap about lists). Now your vote just hinges on his bad interactions. What interactions are you wanting explained, and how was he supposed to know just from those posts? It doesn't seem to me like you actually want a response.

[TheGarantula]

@Mod: I think you mixed up Pjovek and DrDolittle's wagons

[TheGarantula]

I'm fairly certain partner only meant to include people who could communicate with each other.

Also, @Varsoon: What do you think of my vote on you? What do you have to say in reply to my previous questions?

[TheGarantula]

For the record, I voted Varsoon over Pjovek because I wanted to hear from both of them, but Pjovek already had a big wagon pressuring him. Voting Pjovek didn't seem as likely to produce results. I'm not looking to lynch either one yet.

[TheGarantula]

For the record, I voted Varsoon over Pjovek because I wanted to hear from both of them, but Pjovek already had a big wagon pressuring him. Voting Pjovek didn't seem as likely to produce results. I'm not looking to lynch either one yet.

Varsoon's not the type to avoid questions. You didn't really need to vote him.

He posted multiple times without addressing my vote or my questions. Also, how am I supposed to pressure suspects if I don't vote for them? That was a very silly thing for you to say.

[TheGarantula]

By 151 you must mean 131.

[TheGarantula]

Isn't it the majority opinion at this point that sharing list info will aid the scum more than town?

[TheGarantula]

Nickthename is replacing out. Hopefully his replacement will be active, though.

I think Varsoon is town for his reasoning behind the lists. I don't think scum would go out of their way and discuss the list theory that much.

Why wouldn't they?

ITT: People who don't know how to use ISOs.

[TheGarantula]

@T S O: I forgot to mention in my last post how unreasonably funny I found that joke.

[TheGarantula]

@Version: I don't see how I'm acting paranoid. Also, I disagree with you about your approach being helpful, and you don't seem very concerned as to whether or not it actually is. Why is that?

[TheGarantula]

Sorry, Varsoon was autocorrected by my phone. Anyway, it isn't helpful to you unless you know other people's lists. Furthermore, I'm fairly confident that vanilla townies aren't considered partners for the purposes of the lists, so if you really are one, you're going about using your information wrong anyway.

Also, a few pages ago you had a list of people you were confident were town. Why wouldn't you want to work with them?

[TheGarantula]

Why is it shoddy? Actually, don't answer, but this post will be a reminder for us to discuss it post-game.

I read Pjovek's request as a joke. What makes you think it wasn't? And what are trust tells?

[TheGarantula]

Could you link me to the thread(s)? I hate searching this site.

[TheGarantula]

Oh, I thought the thread only metaphorically existed.

[TheGarantula]

UNVOTE: Varsoon

I'm going to reread this thread today; It all went so fast that I think I should refresh.

Pjovek probably more so, since on forums in general people tend to be prejudiced against people without avatars.

Citation?

[TheGarantula]

DBK is scum.

I don't understand this post at all. Why did you think he was scum? Why didn't you vote him?

FOS: Mutleyddmc

You've been active lurking to the max. Why aren't you trying to find scum?

@TheGarantula as I saw you mentioned hunting as a town tell somewhere, just to mention that in this set up scum will probably genuinely scumhunt.

Good point. This is my first game with multiple scum factions, my first game with masons, and my first game with day talk, so I'm still figuring out what to look for in scum.

I reread the thread, but I'm still overwhelmed. I'm going to wait to vote until I can make heads of this mess.

[TheGarantula]

Ntn was replaced...

[TheGarantula]

I'm comfortable with VOTE: Pjovek

[TheGarantula]

Oh, that's L-1 BTW

[TheGarantula]

I've figured it out enough to realize that Pjovek has done nothing but act more suspicious since I originally noticed him. Also, I was feeling lonely in the "not voting" section all by myself.

[TheGarantula]

I agree with T S O about the numbers. I'm going to read Day 1 again before I place my vote.

[TheGarantula]

The remaining Werewolf will definitely not see the town and mafia the same. The mafia members know each other, so if the werewolf gets rid of too many townies the mafia will be able to figure out who he is Thoth on PoE.

[TheGarantula]

Hunting werewolf is not a bad idea. Going after a potential werewolf when there is an obvious mafia on board is a bad idea.

VOTE: DrDolittle
Why should we try and hunt the werewolf today? What qualifies as an obvious mafia? Or did you have someone specific in mind?

[TheGarantula]

On a separate note I did not think much of TheGarantula vote on DrDo, not that I think DrDo is a bad vote I just don't see what's wrong with the specific post he quoted and I don't see the line of thought behind the vote.

The vote itself was half boredom, half suspicion. HC feels more genuine than DrDolittle, and I wanted to hear DrDo explain the idea himself. He didn't, so for now I'm happy with Dolittle holding on to my vote for me.

@Dolittle: I explained why town doesn't need to hunt WW today in 383. You even acted like you agreed in 386. It's your turn to explain.

[TheGarantula]

@DrDo: If the werewolf is smart and/or took my advice, they'll be thirsting for mafia blood tonight and possibly even be pushing them for today's lynch. That means it's a good idea for us to let them shoot. On the other hand, if we go too many days without getting rid of mafia we will be in big trouble. If we get mafia today or ww gets one tonight we can consider getting the werewolf tomorrow.
This follows directly from my last explanation.

Do you really think I'd be this obvious as werewolf? Or does your vote on me mean that you're too afraid to bus one of your scum buddies?

[TheGarantula]

Dr.Do you're at L-1; claim

[TheGarantula]

I'm not sure if we should hunt the WW or mafia today. I'm inclined to say mafia. Opinions?

[TheGarantula]

Also, can someone explain how Dr. Do slipped at the end of yesterday? Claiming mason was stupid, but I don't see where he slipped

[TheGarantula]

TheGar, Drdo didn't slip. Varsoon made him think he did.

Okay, this was what I was thinking. Props to Varsoon for that one.

oh and a slight asso to hc.

Final scum/WW within {Garan, Mutley, Toch} with Garan being most likely to be WW and least likely to be Mafia.

Other than my examination of the benefits of going after mafia vs WW, what makes you think I'm scum/werewolf?

I actually just realized we should lynch wolf. 8 players. Masons claim with no risk of NK. If they get countered, we have a lynch pool of four and only one possible mislynch for a guaranteed win. Uncountered, we can lynch right down the list of remaining players for the win. I'll try to figure out who the wolf is at somme point but right now it's dinner time.

I forgot about the masons; this is a good point. I'm up for looking for WW today then.

I'm going to reread Day 1, looking at the Pjovek wagon again in particular.

[TheGarantula]

Why is HC a likely WW? He just sort of appeared in your suspect list without explanation.

[TheGarantula]

Day 3 is a bit late for a policy lynch, don't you think?

[TheGarantula]

I voted this no lynch guy too.

Anyway I just read some of the game,

Think TSO is likely mafia. So if you want to get a mafia today he is so likely to be one. Oh and GNR is his partner

@Mutley: Your reads have no wait until you back them up. Why do you think these things?

[TheGarantula]

Egg is a fairly solid town read from me. That analysis was solid, though I think Tochica's point regarding the possible "jokiness" of pjovek's vote on me is pretty valid.

Muttley, why do you think GNR is scum?

P-Edit: Yeah, I think the WW is most likely aiming for Masons (ergo town) instead of mafia like I would have expected, though that might have just been because we lynched mafia yesterday.

[TheGarantula]

Mutley, why do you think GNR is scum?

[TheGarantula]

I'll quit asking when you answer.

[TheGarantula]

TSO, who is your top suspect, and why?

[TheGarantula]

What exactly is the case on HC?

[TheGarantula]

This might be a scum v scum battle.

I've been getting a similar feeling. I really don't think this is town v town, but I can't decide who has been acting the scummiest.

[TheGarantula]

Claim, Mutley. I have my hammer hand held high.

I'm Egg just cracked the safe that holds all your scummy little secrets.

[TheGarantula]

Lol phone typo. Still claim, though.

[TheGarantula]

Never mind. Tochica's post made me decide not to.

Mutley, where did Egg say you were worried? Please quote it.

[TheGarantula]

Actually you say if you are town you aren't worried about people reading you. Only scum are. Then the next line you say 'but you aren't worried'

So surely that would make me town

That's not how logical implication works. Being worried might imply that you are scum, but not being worried wouldn't therefore imply that you are town.

[TheGarantula]

TSO, I don't understand how the specifics you mentioned are scummy. Is this a meta argument about how he plays as scum?

[TheGarantula]

Okay, caught up. TSO needs to be lynched.

TheGarantula spent a lot of time tunneling on Mutley only to withdraw his hammer at the last minute. Now that he's retracted his Mutleyread, his ISO makes it unclear who he now considers to be scummy. The only problem is that the Garantula/DoLittle interactions do not feel like a bus at all.

Eager to hear Voidedmafia's thoughts, as his slot is the only one that hasn't expressed an opinion re: TSO/Mutley.

I wouldn't exactly say I was tunneling him, more like trying to get an answer to a single question over the coarse of multiple posts.
I still think Mutley is a good candidate for scum, but I'm currently trying to figure out my read on TSO since WW is more important today.

[TheGarantula]

T S O, if think Mutley is wolf, how could you die tonight?

[TheGarantula]

*if you think

[TheGarantula]

VOTE: TSO

No other real candidates for WW after Mutley's flip, and this mass claim stands to help WW more than town.

[TheGarantula]

Hmm still pretty unlikely garg is scum so scum in HC,Titus,Voided and Nat.

Voided unlikely ww judging from day one and pj interactions, likely mafia though judging from yday around deadline. He is probably a safe vote if we don't know where to lynch today but if he is mafia and we lynch him we will be in exactly the same situation tomorrow.

HC, Titus and Nat all possible ww, one of them should be town, I'd think Nat but I am not sure.

If we misslynch today our only chance is mafia being shot but better not betting on this.

HC did you bother checking Eggs reads that's a bad vote.

O.O

UNVOTE: TSO

Tochica, what fake post are you referring to?

[TheGarantula]

Not sure why that quoted. Phone probz

[TheGarantula]

It wasn't that obvious, I guess. I think I'm the newest player in this game as of now.

@Tochica: Who said it was intentionally misleading? Just because someone dies doesn't make their reads correct.

[TheGarantula]

I'm V/LA for about 2 days.

[TheGarantula]

Been skimming the thread; I will make a better post tomorrow.
Natirasha the NK logic would be better if you had reason to think I would actually kill Varsoon for that reason. My first scum game finished recently so you can look at it for meta. Also, my list wasn't randomized.

[TheGarantula]

I do not think ww-titus killed varsoon because she felt threatened by him, I think if she killed him it was done as a wifom kill. She even told him not to buddy her, and it always makes sense to do it early and cash in later. At the same time Egg's kill I can see as possible wifom kill to frame titus. As you say these are just possibilities.

See, I would wholeheartedly agree with you on the first point if Titus was, well, not Titus. She's a very analytical player and doesn't tend to go for the WIFOM play, I know Titus would not kill Varsoon in that circumstance--she is not the type to do that. In addition, site meta dictates that WIFOM NKs are ridiculously out of fashion.\.

I thought you didn't have experience with anyone in this game.

Snippity

ohhh boy. Varsoon vote, Pjovek FOS'd.

Are you asserting that I am werewolf because of this? This was ambiguous.

No longer V/LA. I shall proceed with reading ISOs now.