Dota 2 Thread: REBORN SOURCE 2 HYPETRAIN NOBRAKES

[TheButtonmen]

Nice to see Navi win but that really was some stupid shit.

[Staeg]

Nice to see Navi win but that really was some stupid shit.

ONLY SKILL
NEVER RNG
NAVI NAVI NAVI NAVI NAVI
NAVI
NAVI
NAVI
NAVI

[TheButtonmen]

I'm not saying it wasn't skill / it was pure luck.

I'm saying it was pretty gay.

[BBmolla]

Lol

It was cheesy, but it's been known about and confirmed the developers know about it.

*shrug*

[Katsuki]

I do think that he might have some place as a 4 that gets, like, treads, an OoV and then a really late mek if you want one of those or a halberd, if the situation is right (right now I can't seem to think of any situations where I'd want an SB, but you know).

Eh but he has no teamfight control, which is a problem. There are just too many heroes that do better in a 4.

[Katsuki]

Navi fountain were very cheesy indeed and I'm sad that tongfu lost g3 to that.

[Saki]

Well uh
PMS (=poor man's shield) is generally terrible on ranged heroes
Phase are usually better than treads on mirana, but it's debatable
And you should indeed carry tps as soon as you can afford them if there's a space cow on the enemy team.

so i don't need an early defensive item at all?
i tried phase out a few times, but i forget item actives from time to time and pt swapping saved my ass once or twice
and space cow usually charges me not my teammates

How you can't manage to phase but can tread swap is pretty backwards lol

i was playing against viper
i killed him then i was like
omg omg im going to die
press 3
oh i didnt

im not used to using item actives frequently like phase boots
sometimes i even forget to activate manta

[Katsuki]

SB offers months.g in ateam fight with no farm though.

Um, you know, besides powerful global initiation and multiple disables that go through bkb. Hell, Bounty Hunter adds less to a teamfight than Bara. I mean, he's no Magnus, but who is?

I still cannot believe the 'you just need map awareness/fight as five' excuse. If there is one lesson to take away from the past year of competitive dota, its that that excuse is complete and utter bullshit.

There was a time when Wisp was considered a weak hero. Luna was called pub trash for literally years in wc3 dota, then--with no buffs at all--she skyrocketed to one of the top carries at TI2. When Magnus came out, he was ignored for three months. Then he went on to become the most important hero for the next year.

In short, don't dismiss a hero as pubtrash.

Hm, aside from giving vision and additional gold perhaps? BH is my most played hero but must say he adds far more than SB does in a game.

You have to look at what a hero offers though. I can see bara being maybe part of a 3-core team but.


Regarding the map awareness part, think about this: How fast does it take for heroes like puck, bat, storm, furi, wisp and so on take to initiate? Incredibly quickly, and wisp furi from anywhere. Then think how long it takes for Bara to initiate. Proper warding for the most part will scout out bara at least 50% of the time.

[Staeg]

I do think that he might have some place as a 4 that gets, like, treads, an OoV and then a really late mek if you want one of those or a halberd, if the situation is right (right now I can't seem to think of any situations where I'd want an SB, but you know).

Eh but he has no teamfight control, which is a problem. There are just too many heroes that do better in a 4.

His charge, if it goes uninterrupted, causes A LOT of mayhem. I admit that it's not that much and fairly conditional, but saying that he has no teamfight control is unfair.

[Saki]

Here's my basic build for semi carries(of which potm is one). Boots>bracer>drum>phases>Yasha. Obviously this changes depending on the game and hero, but if you're a farming hero who's not pure farm(am sylla void etc) this build can pretty much never go wrong. PotM doesn't really need Aquilla, drums will give her more overall survivability while also helping damage and making her mana pool larger.

How would you build Mirana as a straight carry?

[Katsuki]

I do think that he might have some place as a 4 that gets, like, treads, an OoV and then a really late mek if you want one of those or a halberd, if the situation is right (right now I can't seem to think of any situations where I'd want an SB, but you know).

Eh but he has no teamfight control, which is a problem. There are just too many heroes that do better in a 4.

His charge, if it goes uninterrupted, causes A LOT of mayhem. I admit that it's not that much and fairly conditional, but saying that he has no teamfight control is unfair.

I suppose He could theoretically tank a lot of spells and dmg and distract from the main cores.


Also fuck United.

[BBmolla]

Here's my basic build for semi carries(of which potm is one). Boots>bracer>drum>phases>Yasha. Obviously this changes depending on the game and hero, but if you're a farming hero who's not pure farm(am sylla void etc) this build can pretty much never go wrong. PotM doesn't really need Aquilla, drums will give her more overall survivability while also helping damage and making her mana pool larger.

How would you build Mirana as a straight carry?

5 Rapiers and Boots of Travel

[TheButtonmen]

Suck it glorious comrades, gimmicks ain't got shit on the [A] team! Someone on TL summed it up nicely when discussing how drafting strategies before game 2 started by saying;

I'd imagine Alliance will pick the same heroes they always pick and Navi will do something creative.

Alliance did the same drafting strategy up they always do, Na'vi assembled a deathball push and took 6 towers by the 14 min mark and still failed to convert the gold, xp and map control into a win. Alliance played safe, clean rat dota for 25 mins and then the second they got ahead instantly and utterly curbstomped Na'vi.

It will be interesting to see how the final goes because it's becoming pretty clear that 4 / 1 chinese dota plan won't phase [A] and that they have the patience to wait out early game teams. Hopefully we see the winner of the Ro2 losers bracket winner bring something new to the field because it's looking like it might be a pretty clean cut finals at this rate.

[TheButtonmen]

Ban Chen, NP first against [A]?

You aren't going to be able to ban any of their players out but the NP / Chen bans really narrow the picks they can make but a first phase ban on puck / bat could also work to really shoehorn S4's picks? I know people are saying you need to ban LD to stop Bulldog but he looked awful mortal LD this past game and was successfully locked out before Na'vi rotated supports to pressure the other lanes. [A]kke and S4 have actually been the [A] MVP's so far imo and I think the bans should be entirely targeted at them rather then spread out across of [A].

[TheButtonmen]

EGM also gets a shoutout for having a functional R key.

[Katsuki]

Game 2, Navi had a team that couldn't push highground. How bulldog managed to get that 19min rad I don't know.

[TheButtonmen]

Game 2, Navi had a team that couldn't push highground. How bulldog managed to get that 19min rad I don't know.

Stacked ancients on cooldown, he got mad jungle gold and xp while Na'vi ran their supports around the map 5 manning undefended towers.

I get that Navi didn't want to run up a ramp into Siren / KotL but with wisp and NP on their team they should have had the lanes continually shoving into the base even if only to tie up 1/2 of the opposing heroes into counter pushing. Navi not banning KotL vs an all-in 20 mins rax or bust push comp also was pretty bizarre.

[Natirasha]

Why would you ban any of s4's heroes? He's the weakest link on the team(note I'm not calling him bad). I do agree with NP/Chen as the first bans vs alliance. No use banning vs Bulldog because they'll just pick up his hero in the first phase and you can't ban all three. I actually like banning siren in the first phase too. So force him to go into the heavy farmer role.

I think Luna death ball strats are the way to go vs alliance, but what Navi's team needed was a proactive initiator instead of a reactive one(Pudge would have worked, DK is a safer variant, even Tuskarr would have been solid).

[TheButtonmen]

Why would you ban any of s4's heroes? He's the weakest link on the team.

You misspelled [A]dmiralBulldog there.

I think Luna death ball strats are the way to go vs alliance, but what Navi's team needed was a proactive initiator instead of a reactive one(Pudge would have worked, DK is a safer variant, even Tuskarr would have been solid).

The issue is without the reactive initiation of a hero such as tidehunter you're no longer able to simply take every outer tower uncontested, having a hero who completely stops [A] from initating until they have a BKB or two lets you dictate tempo a lot more. Also if you were taking a more proactive hero I'd much rather see Clockwork before Pudge or DK simply because of the sheer range he can initiate at because [A] was completely sacking towers and was always a lane or two away from their team (which is well outside of Pudges initiation range).

[Staeg]

I think phase 1 NP/naga bans are what Na'Vi are looking for. I don't think any hero is worth as much as naga is to Alliance... unless they want to ban out chen+NP and then firstpick naga or something like that. Either way, naga should not be on [A] if Na'Vi wants a shot at the game.

[Saki]

btw if a noob by the name of 'saki143' sent you a friend request and is online, he needs coaching

[TheButtonmen]

Na'vi are
16 total wins, 8 total losses,
6 playoff wins, 5 playoff loses,
3 series wins, 1 series loss

Alliance
20 total wins, 1 total loss,
6 playoff wins, 1 playoff loss,
3 series wins, 0 series loses.

The lack of winner's bracket advantage is weird. Navi have to take without dropping a map Alliance to have a better head to head. They can't ever have a better overall record. Combined with how completely crushed Navi got in the winner's bracket finals, I can't really see a way Navi can win TI3 and look like the best team which isn't really a good feeling result for a tournament.

[TheButtonmen]

Seriously not even giving a games advantage is just completely fucked, this is the first tournament I've seen with this format and man does it rub me the wrong way.

[TheButtonmen]

Navi goes in to the finals with a ton of momentum, morale and warmed up, [A] goes in cold too.

This is the worst fucking format I've ever seen, I have no fucking idea what Valve was thinking.

[BBmolla]

Seriously not even giving a games advantage is just completely fucked, this is the first tournament I've seen with this format and man does it rub me the wrong way.

TI2 didn't have the advantage either and cost Na'Vi the tournament.

ALSO, TI1 had it.

So why TI3 doesn't is beyond me.