Death's Diner -Game Over-

[Rift Adrift]

You know that "downtown" was also town for PV, right? He explained this at some point, where he noted that downtown was still town but just less town than uptown. But yes, if Amrun, Stubbs and you are all town, then he put no scum in his strongest townreads...

I seem to have missed this. Modifying interior analysis criterion. Thank you.

[Titus]

RA, The claim seems consistent with the Bastard Modding. Yet, I still don't know what Chocolate Zombie does. It also halfway sounds like a joke.

Amrun

1) Slandaar read me as scum in the thread before you did. He also backed off first.
2) S says Baezu is scum in 415 and again in 918. A says the Baezu wagon is good in 509 but he's emotionally attached to me.
3) S votes Bro in 1547, A has Bro as scum (without reason in 1486), votes in 1662
4 - 5) Both Slandaar and Amrun both seem to think Zoidberg is town preflip. Slandaar doesn't post his shock at Amrun's hammer, nor any change in Zoidberg's behavior. I find that odd. As for Amrun, I don't believe the Zoidberg turn was genuine.

[Titus]

Minor edit to 4-5) Slandaar does comment on the Zoidberg post and Amrun's belief is pretty much copied from that.

[Amrun]

PV is scummy from his original reads post on, which I posted, in addition to his thing about assuming TD was shot, which I also explained. (And as an extra bonus, conftown is voting him, and he's the most viable counter wagon to my own ATM.)

Zmuffin was Elvis, and Elvis was quite scummy. Originally, I wanted to hold off on Elvis because I was convinced Baezu and Elvis couldn't be scum together and Baezu was the scum in the pair. Now that I think Baezu is more likely to be town and there's an active player in the slot, that reservation is removed. Zmuffin's posting I find competent, because he's a competent player, but I don't think he's accounting for context the way he would as town and is more interested in finding faults in posts than looking for scum motivation. Also, someone said it was weird how he knew who claimed before finishing reading the thread (supposedly) and while this thought wasn't mine originally it is a good one. (I think it was Titus who said this.)

P-edit: bastard modding? Is this game bastard and I didn't realize it...? I don't remember seeing that. Nothing in this game has seemed bastard to me.

And I'm sorry but saying I was "sheeping" Slandaar is the most hideous misrep I have ever seen. I'm being attacked for leading the Titus wagon too strongly and also for sheeping onto it at thr same time. Jesus fuck these accusations are bad.

[Rift Adrift]

RA, The claim seems consistent with the Bastard Modding. Yet, I still don't know what Chocolate Zombie does. It also halfway sounds like a joke.

I may re-ask this later.

[PeregrineV]

OK, caught up.

Ghost Penguin

Fact: Long died last night.
Fact: TD died last night.
Claim: Titus put a bomb on TD that would cause his death to PGO the killer. Based on claim, Long was killed last night, unless bomb was nullified, etc.
Fact: If Long was actual NK target, then, based on claims, TD would die.
Fact: If TD was actual NK target like you profess I "slipped" on, then you would suspect Titus' claim, unless you think a mafia anti-bomb role exists.
Fact: You have no scum-read on Titus, and have called him town, thus you believe the bomb-thing, but have not managed to speculate how it "did not go off" if I am correctly calling TD the actual night kill target.
Fact: Apparently both of your heads "overlooked" this logic train, so have managed to believe I "slipped", when it's not possible if Titus is town.
Fact: I tend to think Titus is town, which means Long's death probably triggered TD's, but, I don't really care. Dead is dead, and the main point was I don't like the fact you "investigated" a person who is dead. Your response of 2214 is less than encouraging.

I also asked why the Dethy swung to you-scum overnight.

More seriously, if you want to know why the other Dethy people wanted us to go first, ask them. I maintain widespread idiocy, but do go ahead and elaborate on what 'struck you wrong' yesterday.

I want to hear from YOU why they did it. From YOUR point of view, 3 town and 1 scum now found you scummier than the prior day. If they didn't state why, why aren't you curious as to the why? Was the shift town-led or scum-led?
You are the only Dethy hydra, so I'd expect 2x the opinions on each dethy player.

Natrisha

2228- I expected an analysis of my iso. The fact you have not makes me feel my vote is well-placed. Your claim of 1-shot Chocolate Zombie isn't doing anything to sway my vote at this point.

Lots of pedits--

[zMuffinMan]

I don't think he's accounting for context the way he would as town and is more interested in finding faults in posts than looking for scum motivation.

How many of my posts have you actually read?

Also, someone said it was weird how he knew who claimed before finishing reading the thread (supposedly)

It was AJ, and I don't believe he ever explained what he meant by this. I believe he was referencing me mentioning something that was happening D2 before I'd finished reading D1.

[PeregrineV]

Excepting possibly Amrun and/or Stubbs, his town list is all definite townies. He's only got one person in the dethy in his town list. Two are in his scumlist. Since scum already knew about the dethy, I don't think scumPere would have scumread both BRO and GP.

The downtown list was weaker townreads than the Uptown list.

[zMuffinMan]

@PV,

If you were able to work out all those facts, then why did you originally think it's suspicious that Ghostlin checked someone who died?

[Titus]

I want to hear from YOU why they did it. From YOUR point of view, 3 town and 1 scum now found you scummier than the prior day. If they didn't state why, why aren't you curious as to the why? Was the shift town-led or scum-led?
You are the only Dethy hydra, so I'd expect 2x the opinions on each dethy player.

PV, who are the players you are referring to.


@Amrun, yeah that's pretty logical IMO. You see a town accuse a scum. You jump on. You fight to make sure the train doesn't turn.

[Titus]

Edit, you see town accuse someone who is NOT a scum.

[zMuffinMan]

He's asking why the Dethy QT decided BRO was town and Ghostlin was scum overnight when it was the opposite D1. It should be rather obvious, though (hint: Zoidberg flip).

[zMuffinMan]

@PV,

If you were able to work out all those facts, then why did you originally think it's suspicious that Ghostlin checked someone who died?

Retracting this question. I can somewhat understand it now, actually.

That said, it was still bad.

[PeregrineV]

@PV,

If you were able to work out all those facts, then why did you originally think it's suspicious that Ghostlin checked someone who died?

I think you are ignoring the timeline here.

Ghost Penguin claims result on dead, flipped player.
I find it suspicious.
Ghost Penguin claims I slipped about who was the actual target of the scum NK.
Not really relevant to my statement "I find it suspicious.", but it has been his (their) push focus the entire day.
What I expected was day1 posts where GhostPenguin shows suspicion of TD, and why he might have investigated him. I got numbers instead.

What was your take on his choice?
Why does his case on me involve selective logic, and what do you think of that?

[zMuffinMan]

What was your take on his choice?

*shrug* I don't think it was a good choice, but I don't think it was the smartest thing to lie about if he's scum. What good does it do to claim an investigation that locks him in as either sane or naive? Or are you just suggesting he didn't think about this and it's scummy for ~reasons~?

Why does his case on me involve selective logic, and what do you think of that?

I don't think the case on you involves as much selective logic as you're claiming it does. It had to do with his belief that there was scum among the people who were suggesting scum motivation in claiming he checked a dead person.

Granted, the part about the slip is likely invalid unless scum do have some sort of anti-bomb role, but the rest of his points about you aren't any less valid.

[PeregrineV]

I want to hear from YOU why they did it. From YOUR point of view, 3 town and 1 scum now found you scummier than the prior day. If they didn't state why, why aren't you curious as to the why? Was the shift town-led or scum-led?
You are the only Dethy hydra, so I'd expect 2x the opinions on each dethy player.

PV, who are the players you are referring to.


@Amrun, yeah that's pretty logical IMO. You see a town accuse a scum. You jump on. You fight to make sure the train doesn't turn.

The overnight shift in the dethy from Bro-scum to Ghostlin claims first. I assume this attitude is given by the must suspect player claims first, as most Dethy-cops put themselves last, but GhostPenguin near the front of the list.

[PeregrineV]

I don't think the case on you involves as much selective logic as you're claiming it does. It had to do with his belief that there was scum among the people who were suggesting scum motivation in claiming he checked a dead person.

Can you point this out to me in any of his posts since 2233? I must have missed where it's scummy to find his night choice suspicious.

[zMuffinMan]

2254

[PeregrineV]

He's asking why the Dethy QT decided BRO was town and Ghostlin was scum overnight when it was the opposite D1. It should be rather obvious, though (hint: Zoidberg flip).

I think here you are implying that the Zoidberg push on Bro and Ziodberg scum-flip means the Dethy have reason to find Bro town and have moved on to their second tier scumread. Unless you think the Dethy pulled this out of their respective butts, some reason must exist for those scumreads. Since I didn't find much for it in thread, I'm asking for GhostPenguin to give it to me from the QT.

[zMuffinMan]

I would guess PoE is the main reason. I'm not entirely sure they have reasons, except that he looks the least town out of them. I might be wrong, though.

You could always try asking any of the other QT members about it.

[PeregrineV]

2254

Thanks. Now I need to check if everyone suspecting GhostPenguin is scum to him, or just AuntJ and me. Making an elaborate OMGUS is still an OMGUS.

[Amrun]

I don't think he's accounting for context the way he would as town and is more interested in finding faults in posts than looking for scum motivation.

How many of my posts have you actually read?

Also, someone said it was weird how he knew who claimed before finishing reading the thread (supposedly)

It was AJ, and I don't believe he ever explained what he meant by this. I believe he was referencing me mentioning something that was happening D2 before I'd finished reading D1.

Not all of them, but enough. (I will read them.)

Example, though: criticizing me for responding thoroughly to Titus' accusations, which occurred when I was keeping up with the thread, but not others, which occurred when I was on vacation, and completely failing to mention this despite obviously knowing I've been on vacation. Perfect example of not accounting for context in a scummy way.

And there was something in particular I thought you mentioned that didn't make sense at the time (someone's claim or something) but I'm sure I'll remember it when I catch up.

[zMuffinMan]

criticizing me for responding thoroughly to Titus' accusations

Are you confusing me with someone else here? Or what are you referring to?

[Amrun]

It's possible I'm projecting a little due to being in that mode myself in a recent game. But, I think it was real.

I reread the start of D2 and I'm still not seeing things the way you're apparently seeing them. I do see her coming across as frustrated with Titus's argument about her voting pattern, but I think that stems more from the fact that Titus's point about the votes themselves wasn't a particularly good point. I think (hope) that was dropped, but I've yet to see her address any of the valid concerns with her play.

I can maybe understand the hammering stuff *maybe* being partially because it was late and phoneposting and whatever, but it still looked fake and it is still rather strange that she was perfectly fine with hammering without a claim or anything. The last part of this I realise isn't that big a deal with the deadline looming and Zoidberg's #2026, but I still have bad feelings about the way in which the hammer happened and nothing she's said so far has alleviated my concerns here.

---

You're going after Slandaar for backing off of Titus early.
You're going after Amrun for backing off of Titus late.

What then, in your opinion, would have been an appropriate reaction re:Titus?

You're misunderstanding something here.

Me going after Slandaar isn't because he backed off Titus early, but because I don't think he justified the backing off well. It looked like he still had a scumread on Titus when he backed off, even if he realised the initial reason for the Titus suspicion were crap.

Me going after Amrun for being late in jumping off Titus has to do with the fact that I think she, as town, would have realised a lot earlier than she did that going after a lynch on Titus D1 was a bad move.

It has nothing to do with how early or late they were in when they stopped attacking Titus, and everything to do with

the reasons for

how early/late they were.

---

*Is entirely too lazy and bought into the idea that Dethy will fix itself without lynches.

It

will

solve itself though. Scum are going to have to take shots at the Dethy QT eventually, and even if they don't, we'll eventually narrow down the potential scum in the Dethy to two just based on investigation results.

We

will

have to lynch from the Dethy eventually, but that time is not now, and discussing it now is bad.

---

But I went back and looked at [PV's] ISO and found 1225. He's got all townies in his town list.

Huh? I see Amrun, AJ and all the Dethy QT members but Slandaar in his town list. Unless Amrun and AJ are both town and Slandaar is scum, then I don't see what you think you saw here... Not to mention Stubbs who you seem to have recently downgraded to a null read.

The only thing about #1225 that I think looks town is the fact that he only put one scum read in there. But I'm beginning to think this is more of a null thing.

Not only that, but go back and look at his interactions with Zoidberg. It just doesn't look like SvS interactions.

Which posts are you referring to here? Because I was null on most of the back-and-forth between the two at the end of D1. It wasn't exactly an intense back-and-forth and I could easily see it happening between scum partners.

---

Was this a serious question Muffin? Were you actually asking me to expand on why I think Amrun is town?

You didn't really mention any of the things you and Amrun agreed on D1 prior to just now.

Do you actually believe that if someone has the same reads as you, that makes them town?

---

I have extensive fferylit + syryana meta

the fact that they are calling me scum + scum pushing me + not using meta

I'm not going to delve into how bad the reasons are here, but seeing as you say you have "extensive meta" on them, are you suggesting that they always read you correctly as town or something?

I don't really understand this. Expand please.

---

Anyway. I'm not currently reading Natirasha as scum.

I still want an Amrun lynch. My preferred alternative is PV, who's currently prod-dodging and has yet to respond to any of the stuff on him.

More later after I finish doing some reading in my other games.

First bit of this post. Sorry can't snip because of phone.

[Titus]

2254

Thanks. Now I need to check if everyone suspecting GhostPenguin is scum to him, or just AuntJ and me. Making an elaborate OMGUS is still an OMGUS.

I do not believe I am on GP's scum list but I'm near confirmed town so yeah.