Open 511: Diffusion of Power: (Mod Abandoned)

[Baezu]

I'm having trouble seeing what the intent is in some of TMT's posts, and I'm not happy with voting someone for being too vague for me to understant. I don't see why Pashendale refers to the "wagon"on Baezu, becaue I'm only seeing 3-4 people who have outed having seen him be suspicious. I want to know if he's trying to get pressure on him and build up his case afterward, and just using generic tells to start this going.

I was wondering about this too. Pasch, care to explain your intention?

[Baezu]

I fell asleep last night, woke up to find my computer off, and because I'd been doing all my ISO work in notepad, it's gone. Lesson learned.

Starting from scratch, here are my thoughts on the most important parts of Baezu's ISO.

145-153 is one of the most interesting sequences of posts I've ever seen and I can't make any sense of it from a town perspective.
323 <- "How am I supposed to get reads when it's just 3 townies ranting back and forth" is a weird thing to say, particularly calling all three of them townies (I believe this was referring to Saki, DCL and TaskMaster)
713-763 is another sequence of posts similar to the earlier 145-153 where I simply can't understand the thought process from a town perspective.
And then track the progression of her read on ZZZX: In 424 she says she thinks ZZZX is town and mnemonic's attack on ZZZX was scummy, in 454 ZZZX is null-scum (citing ZZZX's post 326 as part of the reason for this), in 563 she explains that over the course of two days between 424 and 454 that ZZZX went from a town read to null-scum purely for a drop in activity which finally results in 619 where Baezu votes ZZZX. The only really weird thing about this sequence is the change from town->null-scum for no good reason... But then there's 630, which just looks extremely fake.

So yeah, these are basically the reasons I think Baezu is very likely scum. The thought processes and actions don't look town.

Going to finish doing ISOs today and get my thoughts out on everyone else but Baezu is probably my first choice for a lynch today.

Please refer to my completed games and compare my play here to those. As town, in those games I tend to do exactly what you're describing I'm doing here. I have no solid leads so I jump around, evaluate and re-evaluate. As scum, in those games, I'm more methodical, concise, well thought out.

[Baezu]

TMTOLBTWNTOF - started out kind of weak with lots of contentless posts. I don't know, maybe that's his style. But ever since, he's been asking for explanations on reads and votes and has been participating. Town
oriole - pretty consistent all game, giving reads and elaborating on them, scumhunting. Town
N64Lord - Seemed scummy in the beginning of the game, but his play is much more town atm. Town
Paschendale- As I was rereading the posts, I came across this:

Pasche, you like every part of that DCL post and then vote him later without commenting further?

Still think Pasch is scum.
Saki - Saki is Saki. He's not setting off any scum bells. Town
zMuffinMan - Still undecided about this slot. Venrob made it seems so scummy and Wolf didn't really help any. Zmuffin has been doing something to redeem the slot but I'm still not sure if he's not just a really good scum player. Null
mnemonicdevice - Has had a lot of suspicious posts and not much of content. Is that his playing style? dunno. Still feels scummy to me. Scum
Titus - good posts. very town-centric. Town
NoctanNights - Still think he's town
Taskmaster - not putting up any red flags. Town

I would lynch either of pasch/MD

[Paschendale]

Sure, I'll bite.

1. I answered N64 on the last page. 3 votes with 6 to lynch looks like it qualifies as a wagon to me. Maybe others have a different threshold. Either way, it's a semantic difference at most.

2. I opened that post in praise of 666 and then ended it by voting for him because it was a summation of about 100 posts. It was a catchup post. I had just come back from V/LA. I wrote it as I read through the new posts. Actually, it's interesting that Oriole says I voted "without commenting further" when the only actual paragraph of content is then a criticism of 666 for his continued attacks on Saki. I didn't notice it at first, but that's a really obvious misrep from Oriole, and from you if you did notice it.

This was my summation of 666's posts during that timeframe: "I think 666's argument is disingenuous and he should know better." That's commenting further.

So... why rely on a misrep in order to justify a scumread on me?

[Paschendale]

Also, I'm a bit at a loss for what to do today. As I said before, my top two scumreads are now both dead. And the only people who are really looking scummy to me right now are the ones who are attacking me, because they are doing it extremely poorly with a lot of misreps and badly formed meta reads. But it is hardly compelling to simply argue that one's detractors are scum, nor can one really be entirely objective about it.

I like the current moves towards TMT. I had a scumread on TMT early in the game that got overshadowed by 666. But I have to ask. Oriole, why is shifting tactics indicative of scum? Shouldn't town alter their tactics as the game continues as well?

[Baezu]

UNVOTE: paschendale

these last posts were definitely townie

now I'm in the same boat you are - no real scum reads.

I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens as the day progresses

[zMuffinMan]

As town, in those games I tend to do exactly what you're describing I'm doing here. I have no solid leads so I jump around, evaluate and re-evaluate.

I seriously doubt you do this as town, seeing as my biggest issues with you aren't you "jumping around" and "evaluating and re-evaluating" but the thought processes behind this.

Also, don't bring up self-meta. It's bad. If you know your town and scum meta well enough that you can point to your play and say "this is my town meta", then you can do this when you're scum as well.


Anyway, I'll be back in about an hour and then I'll stop procrastinating with this game. brb.

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

Also, I'm a bit at a loss for what to do today. As I said before, my top two scumreads are now both dead. And the only people who are really looking scummy to me right now are the ones who are attacking me, because they are doing it extremely poorly with a lot of misreps and badly formed meta reads. But it is hardly compelling to simply argue that one's detractors are scum, nor can one really be entirely objective about it.

I like the current moves towards TMT. I had a scumread on TMT early in the game that got overshadowed by 666. But I have to ask. Oriole, why is shifting tactics indicative of scum? Shouldn't town alter their tactics as the game continues as well?

Pasche- the current moves towards me are Titus and Oriole. Oriole you discredit in your post, and Titus is because he agrees with Oriole. So I'm at a loss as to why you like the current moves

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

Also, I'm a bit at a loss for what to do today. As I said before, my top two scumreads are now both dead. And the only people who are really looking scummy to me right now are the ones who are attacking me, because they are doing it extremely poorly with a lot of misreps and badly formed meta reads. But it is hardly compelling to simply argue that one's detractors are scum, nor can one really be entirely objective about it.

I like the current moves towards TMT. I had a scumread on TMT early in the game that got overshadowed by 666. But I have to ask. Oriole, why is shifting tactics indicative of scum? Shouldn't town alter their tactics as the game continues as well?

Pasche- the current moves towards me are Titus and Oriole. Oriole you discredit in your post, and Titus is because he agrees with Oriole. So I'm at a loss as to why you like the current moves

[Paschendale]

I want to see where they lead. Why don't you do something to alleviate my suspicions of you, TMT?

[Titus]

TMT, having me as a scum read for agreeing with someone isn't appropriate unless you show some sort of flaw in the logic. It's ok to agree with a good case.

[Voodoo Lady]

VOTE COUNT 2.5

TMTOLBTWNTOF - 2 (oriole, Titus)
Baezu - 3 (N64Lord, Paschendale, zMuffinMan)
oriole - 0
N64Lord - 0
Paschendale - 3 (Taskmaster, Saki, NoctanNights)
Saki - 0
zMuffinMan - 0
mnemonicdevice - 0
Titus - 0
NoctanNights - 0
Taskmaster - 1 (mnemonicdevice)
Not Voting - TMTOLBTWNTOF, Titus, Baezu


Six players are needed to form a majority.

The deadline is midnight August 29th-- 6 days from now.

[TMTOLBTWNTOF]

TMT, having me as a scum read for agreeing with someone isn't appropriate unless you show some sort of flaw in the logic. It's ok to agree with a good case.

when did I have you as a scum read?

[Saki]

Prod dodge.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

stop being obvscum

[oriole]

I like the current moves towards TMT. I had a scumread on TMT early in the game that got overshadowed by 666. But I have to ask. Oriole, why is shifting tactics indicative of scum? Shouldn't town alter their tactics as the game continues as well?

It's not that TMT has been shifting his tactics, it's what the tactics have been. Simply put, I don't see much scum hunting from him because he's shifted to mostly defending.

Also I don't like some of NN's logic so I'm looking over his ISO.

This is the closest he's come to outright calling someone scum today (unless I missed something), and his vote's been sidelined all of Day 2.

@TMT - Where is this ISO re-read?

[NoctanNights]

Well, kind of hard to read everybody, I don't just vote slight suspicions, I wait until they flesh out more.

[Taskmaster]

UNVOTE: paschendale

these last posts were definitely townie

now I'm in the same boat you are - no real scum reads.

I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens as the day progresses

"Would want to lynch MD or Pasche"
Unvotes Pasche without voting MD.

Seems legit.

Baezu + Pasche are scum.

ns

[Saki]

I'm practically sure Baezu is town.

What does that make Pasche, then?

[Baezu]

UNVOTE: paschendale

these last posts were definitely townie

now I'm in the same boat you are - no real scum reads.

I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens as the day progresses

"Would want to lynch MD or Pasche"
Unvotes Pasche without voting MD.

Seems legit.

Baezu + Pasche are scum.

ns

MD was not a strong enough read of mine to actually place a vote. What is wrong with waiting to get more information on everyone?

[Paschendale]

Notscience, just stop. It's over. I get that you're mad at me over our last game. I'm not really sure why, but you basically have "confirmation bias" tattooed on your forehead.

[zMuffinMan]

proddodge.

I'm practically sure Baezu is town.

Why?

---

Also, may as well post some of the other ISOs I've done, but I'm far from finishing them...

I have a very, very mild town read on mnemonicdevice, but I really can't get a good read on him. It's primarily a gut read based on the way he was analysing things D1. Some posts that made me feel this way were 279/371-374 where he explained some of his reads and then 413, 426 and eventually 503 where he talked about ZZZX. I can follow the progression of his reads, they're internally consistent with no real contradictions.

N64Lord I'm thinking town atm. I don't quite recall exactly what made me think he was scum D1 but I think it had to do with him doing a lot of talking and not much in the way of taking solid stances on people. It felt like he was just egging others on without getting his hands dirty, if that makes sense. When I went over his ISO again, I didn't see the same stuff I saw the first time I read the game, and some of the stuff he was saying actually felt town. Also at the start of D2, 650 felt really town, mostly because I didn't sense any scum intent in his criticism of my D1 play (even though it's inaccurate, but whatever).

---

Maybe will stop being lazy soon.

[Saki]

dead game is dead

[Titus]

Missed your question Saki.

Taskmaster, I take it you think Pasche is bussing Baezu?

[Saki]

Are you scum Titus

[NoctanNights]

Are you scum Titus

What kind of question is this?