Mafia 62: Suspicion in Sicily - Game over!
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BULLSH*T ALARM BLARING!!!!N9V wrote: Whenever I vote because of a wagon, it is always the last person to jump on that I vote for.
What is this? Here are few statistics.
Panzerjager, time of post: Mar 01 10:44pm GMT
N9V, time of post: Mar 01 12:09am GMT
No. of players in the game: 18
Howon Earthdo you justify he's the last person to join the band wagon, when you don't even give more than 2 HOURS before someone else joins a bandwagon? There are 18 players in this game, I would consider a day just about too short to justify that decision.
With thisUnvote, vote: N9VWoof!- Raffles
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No one else has joined the bandwagon? Do you really expect people to get onto mafiascum just because they sensed a bandwagon with a spider sense?
Alright let be fair. I've just come up with an alternate scenario. You've just logged on, saw a bandwagon, stupidly not checking the time of the post, you rushed for a vote. Still, why vote for the last one? As far as I can reason, there's no reason why scumshouldjoin last.
a) it's dependent on time they log on. But I've already been through this.
b) Why shouldn't the scum be in the middle (assuming it was about 7 votes) or even start the bandwagon? It was just a random vote stage, any alignment could have started one.Woof!- Raffles
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I second this. I find those 3 extremely scummy too.Pnajerzager wrote: Both, N9V and Cubsfan have had points brought against them, decent ones might I add, and I believe that one those two are scum. On top of that, if cubs turns out scum, in turn Kinkster is probabyly scum. It would lead to a scum catching chain reaction. This is why I feel that these three should be the ones being voted because they are most likely scum at this point.Woof!- Raffles
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Argh, I've been poked... I'm back people, it's just that this game doesn't have much activity outside random voting and rubbish wagonning...
Jalyn, it's not rubbish at all. Think of it this way, there's a school cantene and serving has just started. 5 minutes in, queues are starting to form. Would you honestly call the last person in the queue after 5 minutes the last person who gets served? Of course not. You'd wait out until the queue has reached it's full length, and once the queue has started shrining, then you could be right in saying the last person in that queue could be the last one to get served.
And even if you somehow refute this, how is the last person on a band wagon a scum? Not a scum tell at all.Woof!- Raffles
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What? Is there a codes of standards that all townies has to obey? Jeez if you want us all taking the exactly same actions, someone could have told me in the newbie game... What's wrong with saying it before mentioning anything at all? If I said it other way round, would it not have tripped your scumdar? Care to give me a model solution so I could follow it all the time?Phoebus wrote: It's an absolutely ludicrous attitude for a townie.Woof!- Raffles
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The way I see it after I've been playing a few games, I think I see a pattern.
Everyone goes about using a same way to hunt out a scum. That is to get everyone to act the same. Anyone who step out of this line exhibit something so-called "a scum tell", and is suspected of having a hidden agenda.
I disagree and have a healthy dislike for this tactic (which seems to be universal throughout the site). For one thing, if this were the case, the best thing for the scums to do is to forget their hidden agenda. This means that the probability of exhibiting "scum tell" is determined by the player's experience, but independent of the alignment. Which implies the probability of someone getting lynched is solely based on experience. This implies that no matter what game, it is noobish player that will get lynched and whether that person is a scum or not is solely dependent on luck.
Given this, it is far more likely that the scum would survive, because there are always less of them and they have NK ability.
Second and more general point is this rule does not allow you to experiment with different playstyle. I for one have found out a noobish play attracts far more votes than a scummy play. But I'll leave it at that as the game is still ongoing.Woof!- Raffles
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Nope, that post was written without any loss of generality, and it probably belongs more in mafia discussion thread rather than here, but I thought it might be an appropriate response for Phoebus.
I note that there may not be much to go on on the first day, but still, I find the following to be true.
1. People with rather unconstructive game play gets lynched first, regardless of scum or not. (NOTE: This is usually justified by saying "it's not helpful to the town". A stupid justification if you ask me.)
2. If 1 is not present, then people are accused for most hideous reasons. Usually something nit-picked from few posts and saying "this is not how a townie should act - die scumbag!" Which I also find is a silly justification.
My thoughts are that scum-tells are "codes of conduct" that has been made to easier identify the rule breakers, to make things easier for people to decide who to lynch. I believe that the name is misleading and prohibits creativity.Woof!- Raffles
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Me wrote: But this is my point. If I make something happen, it seems to raise red flags anyway. I might do just as well post "I'm a scum".TS wrote: Raffles just posted that he is a scum. He's using some twisted strategy to give himself permission to make nothing happen.
unvote, vote: RafflesDP wrote: I must say that that post does not sit well with me either.
Unvote spectrumvoid
Vote Raffles
Now that's what I call, point proven.Woof!- Raffles
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Okay, it might take me mere half an hour. Whatever.
Anyway, I've read from page 10 onwards in one go. Hollywoody, from the reasons you gave up (I think page 11), I can't place my vote on DP. I don't find the way he acted at all suspicious, even with your summary. I see voting for non-voter or someone who is not active as about harmful as eating my toast right now - i.e. it will never get to a kill.
However, I really didn't like this.
What if you are wrong? What if it reallyWoody wrote: If we lynch Dragon Phoenix today, which would prove that I was at least partly right, then we have moved forward a great deal. We would be able to follow the tried and true patterns of the game, and make our analysis from there, if only we cut and polish this theorem I set out among you.wasjust a normal stone?Woof!- Raffles
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DP - in what ways?
A bit fishy, but to me this is a minor.Jalyn wrote:Jalyn? Who'd have guessed! Good job whoever did it.
I don't see it as anything more than a pressure vote.Jalyn wrote: OK. Day 2. Let's squeeze scotmany12. A mega-scummy opportunistic lurker should not be permitted to lurk unpressured by the Town.
vote: scotmany12Woof!- Raffles
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Why do I care if he said he thought I was protown? I don't see myself as being in dept to say Vitamin R is a town too, that's ridiculous. If I think he is scummy, I can vote for him regardless of what he thinks of me, right?
Another horribly scummy talk right there. Now let's think this for a moment... if I was a town, why would I be shooting myself in the foot? Your presumpion of me being scum is so thick in that quote that it's a loaded question.woody wrote: It seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot. Or, just giving yourself an alibi if TS turns out not to be scum.
It just doesn't strike me at all as what a town would say. It seems as though you expect me to know that VitR is my buddy, therefore I know his alignment. I don't, therefore I see no problem with accusing him. As for VitR...
My first thought when I read that was, "leave Phoebus to vote whoever he wants, bitch. Why should he believe you just because you tell him I'm not a scum?" This partly has to do with my policy "leave people to make their own decisions". But then I read again and thought, "Isn't this a talk to the scum buddy?" How can he go about telling Phoebus to join TS bandwagon, when he doesn't know whether Phoebus is protown or not? I don't know Phoebus's alignment, he made himself pretty shrowded the whole game, I wouldn't dare tell him to join any bandwagon.VitR wrote: Phoebus, Raffles isn't scum. We should go for TS.
I'm happy with woody and VitR being scum buddies, and maybe Phoebus as a more of indirect reasoning.Woof!- Raffles
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Hollywoody mate, these are playing politics. Iwoody wrote: 2) I'm saying that having someone who very clearly states that they believe you not to be scum is a good thing, because it's one less person who will vote for you in a push-comes-to-shove situation.
4) *snip* Either way, it seems like you're hurting yourself by attacking a person who solidly defends your township.hatepolitics. The very fakeness makes my blood boil. I havenointerest in mutual alliance. This situation is where I have to suspect everyone, and I'm not willing to gamble playing along withanyone. People can vote for anyone so long as they give a proper reason, I couldn't care less. What I will refuse to do is just because someone defended me, I will owe them one back. And I expect others are not stupid enough to engage in this kind of behaviour.Iwill vote for whoever I find scummy. And I expect everyone else to do the same. (Other than scums, of course).
TS, it's 1 am. I will read those tommorrow, if you don't mind.Woof!- Raffles
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TS, I've read what you wrote. Some parts are stretching reason, some parts are just put in there solely to make scotmany look bad.
Whilst this being true, it's interesting to note that those are the only posts that holds any (and I use the word "any"veryloosely) content at all. It seems that scotmany is staying off the lurk-list whilst making empty posts, nudging the town when he found fit to. I would also agree with some of the TS's arguments (opportunism and such).
So I would
Unvote
FoS: VitR, scotmanyWoof!- Raffles
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With you. One of the most hardcore lurkers.
I don't know what it is, but these two are giving me bad vibes.
Alex Paoletti wrote:Hmm all of this talk about lynching lurkers makes me feel like I should be a bit more active
Lynching mole doesn't seem like a great idea to me. True, we will be able to learn by peoples' reactions, but that will be the case in any lynching. Why not then choose someone who we have any bit of suspicion. Unless you're arguing that mole is lurking because he is scum (which does not seem to be the case.. he's apparently a lazy player or something), a lynch of anyone else would tell us the same amount of information, with at least a slightly higher chance of eliminating scum. As far as lynching mole for the sake of convenience, he has been prodded, and if he doesn't respond, he'll just be replaced, right?
As this is my first mafiascum game, I'm very curious to meet mole.. many of you seem to have strong opinions about him I suppose all this argument about lynching lurkers will be moot when he finally says something.
Also, I'll take this time to ask a quick question about the way this works:
Do we know how many scum there are? I may have missed on the wiki or tutourial whether or not there is a universal rule for deciding that.
Jalyn = mole, if I remember rightly. It's probably just my gut, but I do sense cooperation whilst keeping enough distance from each other. As I said it's just a gut feeling, combined with your lurkiness.Alex Paoletti wrote:
Jayln, I have to agree with you in saying that Raffles' logic was faulty. However, I think it is because he misinterpreted what N9V was saying, thinking that N9V was trying to say that it's scummy joining a bandwagon late... that's the way I first interpreted it. I still think N9V sounds scummy, because that is such an odd criteria he uses to make his vote. It sounds to me like he wanted to vote Panzer and made up a random reason to justify it.
Regardless, my vote is sticking with Toaster Strudel, but I would definitely vote ~N9V~ before Raffles.
Alex, tell me who you find scummy the most.Woof!- Raffles
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I'm rather frightened by this post as I stated repeatedly that it was a gut feeling and there actually weren't any logic involved.hollywoody1221 wrote:I like the logic, and I see the connection. I'm going tovote Alexfor right now, but what happened to Rand Althor? He was on the mafiascum site, he just didn't post anything during the entire day 2. Lurk much?Woof! - Raffles
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