Death's Diner -Game Over-

[BROseidon]

Guys guys guys guys guys.

Jakarbas is town.

Varsoon is literally the easiest player to read that I've come across. Ever. Even he's decided to stop his "claim alignment" thing just because he knows I look for it, I'll still be able to tell if he's scum from the quality of his posts.

And yes, Varsoon actually does claim alignment regardless of alignment. He claimed scum in C&H where he was scum.

[BROseidon]

BRO, you scum?

No.

Although I think you're the only person who would ever answer yes to that question.

[BROseidon]

It's sad seeing you in a hydra because mine and Orc's quotes aren't in the signature

[BROseidon]

Jabs isn't scum because Varsoon.

Everyone should sheep me on my Varsoon read. I'm 2/2 reading him correctly.

Town rofl also plays like this. Made me really pissed off at the start of Inevitable but he ended up carrying my ass >.>

[BROseidon]

This is looking like town Varsoon so far because he's being erratic, crazy, and not trying to work with others (so far all he has is a half-assed attempt to reach out to me). It's how he played in Xenoblade and not in C&H.

pedit: although there is something in that most recent post that pings slightly to me. Hold on.

[BROseidon]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was a 19 player game. I mean, I knew,

but I suppose I'm used to the games I've been in lately, which were 13 and 9

. 3 rapid-fire votes on me is suspect in that mindframe.

You had 2 Large Themes that ended recently, both of which were larger than this one.

[BROseidon]

Nope, just looked, still not seeing anything more than null on Jabarkas yet.

How are you not seeing town you've played the same games with Varsoon that I have.

[BROseidon]

Jabs isn't scum because Varsoon.

Everyone should sheep me on my Varsoon read. I'm 2/2 reading him correctly.

Town rofl also plays like this. Made me really pissed off at the start of Inevitable but he ended up carrying my ass >.>

Hey BRO,

I'm thinking TD could be town. You?

This doesn't look like TD from Xenoblade, but I also totally forget what early game town-TD looks like. I'll get around to ISOing him in C&H soon and then get back to you on that, but right now I'm null-towning him.

pedit: this is also what town-ffery does. She is probably the most town-block forming player I've met that isn't Nacho.

pedit2: LET ME POST DAMMIT

pedit3: FUUUUUUUUUUUUU VOTECOUNT

[BROseidon]

Sup

VOTE: roflcopter

Your vote is bad and you should feel bad.

Just quickly looked over early TD in both C&H and Xeno, and this looks like town-TD. He's less pushy and backs off easily in early Xeno before trying to lurk away pressure, whereas in C&H and here he's more actively engaged and willing to hold his ground.

[BROseidon]

On what planet is rofl town in this game?

This one.

VOTE: Titus

Think Zoidberg might have some sort of confirmation-bias type thing because of C&H.

[BROseidon]

Yeaaaah, rofl is posting way to much to be scum.

[unovte][/unvote] VOTE: jabarkas

Your posting style brings me joy, but your content brings me sadness.

WHY ARE YOU FORGETTING XENOBLADE AND C&H.

CAN YOU LOOK AT VARSOONS POSTS THE GAME AND HONESTLY SAY "THESE POSTS REALLY LOOK LIKE HIS C&H POSTS AND NOT LIKE HIS XENOBLADE POSTS." CAN YOU???

[BROseidon]

...wtf did you guys do to this game while I was gone.

TD move your vote somewhere useful please.

[BROseidon]

The rest of the folks who have posted so far are 50 shades of null.

I feel like I've used this before.

Also, can we move votes of Slandaar to somewhere useful, please. Like Titus.

[BROseidon]

Rofl - Scum

This read is bad and you should feel bad.

Try again.

[BROseidon]

Woah I missed that one.

Yeah that one is bad too. EDDIE YOU WERE SCUM PARTNERS WITH VARSOON YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

VOTE: EddieFenix

[BROseidon]

??? What's this about?

Eddie was scumbuddies with Varsoon in a game that ended recently.

So he should know better.

[BROseidon]

Yes

[BROseidon]

Prod received. Gonna catch up today hopefully >.>

[BROseidon]

Jabarkas currently doesn't like
Vote: EddieFenix

This is a good vote. It’s based on recent experiential meta and targeting someone who is clearly trying to lurk through the early game, which is a very effective scum-tactic in games of this size (it’s what I did in Xenoblade)

BRO, what's your read on Zoidberg?

Null-scum. I don’t like his early pissing match with rofl, it looks like he could be scum potentially pushing what he perceives to be an easy mislynch. He also generally has a lack of content. However, post 536 gives me town feels and salvages the slot enough that I probably wouldn’t want to lynch it today. Your point about me buddying him was less me thinking that he’s town and more telling him that if he is town he needs to do something useful.

Then TD threw his hands up in the air at the cluster fuck he had created because his two top scum suspects were confirmed town via role related info even though they look horribly scummy on the surface.

Hate this. Varsoon is towning the fuck out of this game, and you have the same experience with him that I have. Makes me wonder if you are pulling some sort of a gambit.

Amrun-Slandar-Jabs-Rift-titus

Jabs is a dumb choice because you can’t fake that kind of crazy. I am okay with the rest of these for sorting.

Re: the RW bandwagon: Can someone who was playing C&H comment about comparative meta? I kind of ignored day 1 after he dayvigged me and didn’t start reading again until day 2.

Its one of these things scum do, like when they call people anti-town instead of scum it is using the wrong wording or they say pro-town instead of town.

I like this point a lot, although linguist-bias may be coming into play here.

Jabarkas Mayonnaise (hydra) - Scum - Buddying, WIFOM'ing. People accusing me that I should KNOW Varsoon's mafia to his town play REALLY don't seem to understand how I play this game.

Do you play this game by not seeing how your scumbuddies behave in a game?

I’m reading RW’s replace-out as town. Slot was under relatively little pressure, and scum can usually coast the first few days of these sorts of games with relatively little effort.

Also, Ghost Penguin, despite being a Hydra, hasn't contributed much. What do you see that makes you think they're not a worry?

Day 1 play for both heads of that hydra tends to be fairly low key as town.

This looks like MS’s town play, although I only have completed games with his town play so I don’t know what to look for in his scum play.

I literally forgot arc angel and pv were in the game. That says a lot.

I literally forget it until someone brings it up in thread, at which point I forget it 5 posts later because they have made that little of an impression.

wow this is messed up

not in the number of posts

but more in jarb vs amrun


amrun jarb td rift titus town

stubbs scum lets get him

VOTE: stubbbs

Why is he scum? Be specific.

Why are you asking questions you won’t be getting answers to?

Jabarkas is confaligned with Tiphaine. Therefore, if you think one of us is scum, then so is the other. If you think one of us is town, then so is the other. As far as Jabarkas is concerned, that's conftown, because I can't think scum would be stupid enough to let town know something like that.

Ugh but I want to lynch TD so badly what is this bullshit.

Ok well i went looking back for the D1 lurker hunters and noticed metalsonic's appearance.

He jumped on the biggest bandwagon with no reasoning and no other reads.

He's scum.

VOTE: metalsonic

Bad. Go sit in the scum-corner until we get around to lynching you.

I think you are mistaking two very differnt posting styles for a tone change. If the post contains gifs (pretty much any sort of gif, but especially sarcastic oness) or seems ragey or the opinion is stated as a certainty, it's a Syr post. If the post sounds tentative, ambiguous, paranoid, at all diplomatic, or snarky (as opposed to direct insult), it's probably a fferyllt post.

Or you could just sign your posts. Or have one head not use caps ever. Or use different colors.

Ugh I really want to lynch Eddie but nobody else is joining me. I’ll switch my vote to Baezu over Stubbs. I don’t really see the things that people are pointing out about Stubbs, although the fact that I’ve just powered through ½ the game could have made me miss obvious shit >.>

[BROseidon]

Why are you asking questions you won’t be getting answers to?

How exactly do you know I won't be getting answers?

Metal Sonic.

[BROseidon]

StubbsKVM

(6)

- oriole, Zoidberg, TiphaineDeath, Rift Adrift, Metal Sonic, Amrun
roflcopter (1) - ArcAngel9
Zoidberg (1) - PeregrineV
Jabarkus Mayonnaise (1) - Baezu
EddieFenix (1) - BROseidon
Baezu (2) - Slandaar, roflcopter
TiphaineDeath (1) - EddieFenix
oriole (1) - StubbsKVM
Rift Adrift (2) - Titus, Jabarkus Mayonnaise
Metal Sonic (1) - elvis_knits

Not Voting (2) - Ghostly Penguin, Aunt Jemina

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
(expired on 2013-08-09 10:28:34)

Aunt Jemina replaces Radioactive Wolf!

Prodding BROseidon, Baezu, PeregrineV, ArcAngel9.

Posts 717, 720 are not acceptable; this is Zoidberg's first and final warning.

Also, I want Jarbarkus Mayonnaise to realize this is the second time where they have been a part of the drama. Do not let it happen a third time.

Amrun stop being an asshole and actually read

[BROseidon]

-Bro says it's silly to ask MS anything because

he's a lurker

and won't answer

Not my words. Don't misrep me.

[BROseidon]

Metal Sonic doesn't answer things regardless of his activity.

[BROseidon]

He usually just comes in and says "lol I won't answer that."

[BROseidon]

That townblock sounds good to me. I would add Xiao to it (especially now that Varsoon is gone so the slot might be cooperative), but others not so sure on the slot.

[BROseidon]

AJ what is your meta for PA being scum because this looks a lot more like town-PA than scum-PA to me.

[BROseidon]

Jesus fuck if Baezu is scum I don't care what you fucks say, I'm voting td til he's dead.

TD isn't scum. This isn't his scumgame.

RA: What do you guys think of EddieFenix?

[BROseidon]

Among others, all of her theme games. I may only be present in one theme game at a time, but I read or skim every theme game. Her play here is strongly reminiscent of Street Racers, and even stronger in its resemblance to WWE Shield. (Both were multiscum games, and thus, there is an assumption present that Ally is faction-specific scum.) This does not seem like the Ally from Mainstream Mafia, 2.5 Men, or

Calvin & Hobbes

.

Unlike with Grinny and Angel who are harder to read,

Ally is an incredibly easy player to get a read on

, and I am telling you this is her scum play.

I know both of these things to be false. In C&H she lurked hard early, and she has a strong scum game that is hard to discern, that I only caught in HP mafia because I realized that she should have townread me by day 2-3, and so I went back and realized that her content wasn't as strong as I thought it was.

Try again.

[BROseidon]

I want to hear everyone comment on this slip, then I'll get back to you, but I like your theory in theory.

Okay, I was going to anyways.

Your semantics is bad and you should feel bad. What he said was semantically the same as "which of the scum would jump on my wagon," which does not implicitly mean he is scum.

Try again.

Also, wtf would the numbers be for a 17p multiball? 11/3/3 would be horribly imba unless you gave town INSANE amounts of power, and 13/2/2 would suck for scum unless you gave THEM insane amounts of power.

[BROseidon]

Rofl is incredibly town and anyone who wants to lynch him is either being dumb or scum.

Slandaar also fairly town but I'm pretty sure I'll have it worked out in a few days.

RA I think is town right now but I'm less sure of that.

Baezu and AJ are both scummy as fuck and I would be fine lynching either of them.

Stubbs is probably the VI this game.

[BROseidon]

damnit. I want to get a baseline on Eddie.

C&H is an example of his scumgame.

Also I'd like to note how not-present Eddie has been. Lurking away pressure much?

[BROseidon]

Bro, can you give your reads on

RA
Rofl
Baezu
AJ
Slandaar
Stubbs

and anyone else of note.

Just realized you didn't ask me about EK, who is probably more notable than Slandaar.

Hmm....

[BROseidon]

Also I'm fine with an EK lynch. She also seems to be lurking away pressure.

[BROseidon]

Why can't I vote for multiple people at once >.>

[BROseidon]

I'm the one who's been saying "Try again" >:C

[BROseidon]

Oriole, I've read some of those notes but it's honestly too much of a strain on my eyes to read all of them (and I have 20/15 vision >.>). I'm going to echo the "please scan or type those up" opinion.

However, I did read your notes on me and I do have a question for you: You state a lot of what I do, and you do do it accurately (reliance on meta, very strongly defending certain players, applied pressure on primarily the low-content posters). You then come up with a read, but you don't really have the thought-process in the middle. Can you walk me through the thought process that takes you from my posting to your read on me?

[BROseidon]

p5's posts look fairly town.

[BROseidon]

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

I've brought up Eddie multiple times, but he never posted anything else. Tell me how the fuck I'm supposed to engage with someone who doesn't post. The best I could do was comment "he's lurking," which I did. Now that he's replacing out, I want to see what his replacement does with the slot.

Try again.

[BROseidon]

Posts where I mention Eddie, by ISO number:

14
15
18
26
30
37

Zoidberg, are you being lazy town or lazy scum?

[BROseidon]

This seems a "look at this guy" post so we don't analyze you as deeply. It would look particularly weird if every fifth post or so by Bro was "Remember, Eddie's lurking".

Okay, well that's your interpretation I guess, but I'm not sure why I would give a shit about ducking peoples' attention when there's only a single vote on me.

Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just dismiss it out of hand? Because if you'd actually read it you'd see that Bro is being transparently specious in his attempts to inflate the number of times he mentions eddie.

-Votes eddie, mentions him 3 posts later because he has to, otherwise it will be obvious
-3 mentions of eddie over the next 40 pages
-I call him out
-He uses his response to me as an example of how he's mentioned eddie.

Uhhh nope, error does not compute.

Because I have so many posts. That's why I went on ISO number instead of overall game number, because I'm not posting that much.

[BROseidon]

Additionally I'd say broscum strongly implies the eddiefenix slot is town.

A point I find particularly compelling is asking Eddie questions while chastising Zoidberg for doing the same to another lurker.

Must find time to re-read bro.

It'll take you 2 minutes. I haven't really posted that much.

[BROseidon]

I re-read it and yes, he is literally defending himself by calling himself a low frequency poster. I can't even...

VOTE: broseidon

What motivation is there for me to post when I know I'm almost certainly dead by the end of day 3?

[BROseidon]

I re-read it and yes, he is literally defending himself by calling himself a low frequency poster. I can't even...

VOTE: broseidon

What motivation is there for me to post when I know I'm almost certainly dead by the end of day 3?

What in the literal fuck?

Is this fake outrage/surprise or real outrage/surprise?

And rofl: From a gameplay perspective maybe, but from a "how much energy do I want to put in this game versus my other games" perspective, not really.

[BROseidon]

rofl, what would my townflip do to your elvis read?

Hypothetically, since you are either scum or have your head too far up your ass to see that this is my town play.

[BROseidon]

What on earth would give you the impression that you're bound for death by day 3?

Because me surviving longer than that would require that either scum be incredibly stupid or that I be lucky.

pedit: Compare this to my C&H play, or my past few posts to jobpick. My townplay is incredibly swingy and emotionally driven.

Like how I am in a pissy mood right now, so you are going to get to see how annoyed Bro plays.

[BROseidon]

Also god dammit let me post.

ffery if that is you get syr in here he should actually be here for this. Syr if that is you you should know what I'm doing.

[BROseidon]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT AMRUN YOU HAVE ONE FUCKING GAME WITH ME WHERE YOU MISLYNCHED ME BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FUCKING READ ME.

[BROseidon]

If you're town and have reason to think you'll die sooner rather than later, especially by NK, you should want to leave the town with as much to work with as possible.

Not when my death will have nothing to do with reads, and when my history of early reads is fairly bad (I think Ghost in HP and GiF in Xeno are the only times where an early read of mine has been decent. I could do a history of my terrible reads/sheeping other people's good reads, but that would be dumb and would take away from my current course of action).

pedit TD THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING AN IDIOT <3

[BROseidon]

Also I'm fairly sure you aren't white-knighting me. Your post is incredibly cogent.

[BROseidon]

Eh, bro hasn't done anything that I read as scummy yet. I tend to run on the innocent until proven guilty theory.

So you think parking your vote on a lurker for 40 pages and putting up only a token, totally weak-ass attempt to keep discussion on said lurker is town motivated?

More scum-motivated than pushing shitty counterwagons?

Pot, meet kettle.

[BROseidon]

Zoidberg or rofl with one of PV or Baezu makes a ton of sense. Actually, I'm going to look for something.

[BROseidon]

Other stuff I'm looking at sort of implicates Zoidberg, but not as badly as I would have liked.

hmmm....

[BROseidon]

Off to lunch, will be back in 20-30 to do more shit.

Zoidberg: You clearly haven't read my scumgame. In Xenoblade I was on every wagon except for the one against my scum-partner.

[BROseidon]

rofl's secret reasons are predicated on him being unable to do math, or being scum pretending to be unable to do math.

[BROseidon]

Explain. What does math get us?

I will in a bit.

But this seems honest. Scum wouldn't need to ask this question.

[BROseidon]

AJ didn't really push against me that much. She called me something like, "head says town but gut says scum for some reason."

She'll probably jump on my wagon when she gets back, though.

[BROseidon]

Seriously, AJ, p5, and Baezu are all not online. Let's check their latest activity...

[BROseidon]

None have been online since yesterday.

[BROseidon]

Screw you, I've contributed plenty.

Want to fakeclaim a PR as a VT again?

That'll sure add to your incredible opus of contributions.

[BROseidon]

This is not attractive.

Yeah, I know being a dick isn't helpful, but it's just so tempting when people say things that are so incredibly wrong.

[BROseidon]

Also p5 just logged on. Let's see what he has to say about all this...

[BROseidon]

Way to gloss over the part where he was dead-on in his read.

--Penguin

He was.

Then he got mislynched day two because he had to FAKECLAIM TO PUSH HIS READ THROUGH.

Mislynched over scum tracked to a NK who had CLAIMED SCUM and then FAKECLAIMED MILLER NEIGHBORIZER (fine, he didn't actually perform the NK but he was still tracked there).

[BROseidon]

I have some thoughts on BRO meta, though I may not be the player with the most BRO-game experience.

You have the most experience with me of players in this game other than penguin.

[BROseidon]

Also TD and ghost have the same number of completed games with me as you do. MS does, sort of, but the force replace-outs make that more iffy.

[BROseidon]

Where is Syryana. He needs to get here.

[BROseidon]

He was up literally all night last night. I think it was about 6 am his time when he signed off. He probably won't be online for a couple more hours at least.

Good. I think he might be able to clean up this disaster.

[BROseidon]

That's it, I give up, EVERYBODY CLAIM.

It's a claimapalooza, WHEEEEEEE!

means, you're scum, right?

Be useful.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: Baezu

Movin' ma vote cause it ain't doin' jack. This and Zoidberg both are good places to park votes.

[BROseidon]

Power-skimmed the last few pages. FUCK YEAH SYRY.

But you're only seeing half of it. Think about the

disaster

of jobpick, and then read my posts from when zoid/rofl jump on me.

Now time to actually read everything in-depth.

Also RA is town.

[BROseidon]

StubbsKVM (4) - oriole, Zoidberg, Rift Adrift, TiphaineDeath
roflcopter (1) - ArcAngel9
Zoidberg (1) - StubbsKVM
EddieFenix (1) - BROseidon
Baezu

(5)

-

Amrun

, Aunt Jemina, Slandaar, Metal Sonic, PeregrineV
TiphaineDeath (1) - EddieFenix
Metal Sonic (1) - elvis_knits
elvis_knits (3) - Baezu, Ghostly Penguin, roflcopter
Aunt Jemina (1) - Xiao Long

Not Voting (1) - Titus

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
(expired on 2013-08-09 10:28:34)

I re-read it and yes, he is literally defending himself by calling himself a low frequency poster. I can't even...

VOTE: broseidon

Here's the reason I don't like Baezu agreeing with Amrun, Titus. That post where Baezu calls Amrun scummy goes right in between those two posts, and Baezu agreeing with Amrun goes after. The post is also used to go after Slandaar's calling of PV town. Slandaar is currently on Baezu's wagon. Meanwhile, Ghostly Penguin is her strongest townread. Look which wagon Ghostly's on.

This shit be incredibly town.

Zoidberg and everybody else on the terribad BRO wagon, get your asses on Baezu! He's doing his whole "I don't give a shit till people vote me then I flip 500 shits" Town thing. Classic JobPick. Leave him alone.

Syry there’s more and I’m pretty sure that I’ve left enough for you to figure it out.

Also I jumped on Baezu.

Syryana, go away, bring back fferyllt who actually makes quality posts.

No. Syryana and I need to have a chat, since he has a unique perspective on this disaster I’ve caused and I need his opinion on it.

1488 and 1489 I will totally take part in. Too bad the replacement didn’t come in yet.

Dood. Go read like the first 10 pages of Jobpick.

You should go read your scum QT from day 1 again.

bro appealing to his own town meta in job pick makes me want to ignore it altogether

scum can be cognizant of their own town meta

Not appealing to my meta, and you know that.

Titus stop calling RA scum they are incredibly probably town.

[BROseidon]

YES. Okay, you should know two people that you can ignore for the purposes of me asking about the reactions to my flail. You might be able to discern more, but probably not. Are we on the same page?

[BROseidon]

Solid. let's start talking about the thread from 1330 then, since we're on the same page and you know what I'm up to.

Any of the reactions resonate with how you responded the last time you saw this?

pedit: I know I'm not, I'd just rather not have to show too much of what I'm doing for reasons.

ROFL GO AWAY SYRY AND I ARE HAVING A CONVERSATION.

[BROseidon]

Also syry I just noticed that if you transitive property something you might pick up on a third person we can ignore.

[BROseidon]

Okay, got it.

[BROseidon]

btw I'm off to dinner. If I don't respond right away, that's why.

[BROseidon]

Okay back had food.

Gonna ask you questions about a few of them. A few I can take for now but are subject to change over the next few days. First one to poke around is Zoidberg.

What do you like about Zoidberg? He refuses to engage with my flail, and when he quotes part of it he doesn't actually engage with it.

[BROseidon]

Wow, I love that scale.

Nobody reacted to it to the Wisdom level. Ffery, Amrun, and the circle-jerk all had some level of reaction, but all lacked followup (although ffery I'll give a pass because I was actively asking for you). Nobody pushed me to crumb further, and a few people notably outright ignored it and tried to push the convo elsewhere (p5, oriole both did this)

Zoidberg gave a near-Rach response. He quotes one of the erratic statements I made, and then calls it OMGUS, and what he quotes specifically is worrisome.

[BROseidon]

Titus, not answering that yet. Maybe in a few days or postgame.

[BROseidon]

Baezu (7) - Aunt Jemina, Slandaar, Metal Sonic, Oriole, Bro, RA, Amrun

Official obviously.

There is a severe lack of roflcopter and Ghostly on this wagon.

Let's worry about lynching Baezu first.

[BROseidon]

V/LA through Sunday evening

[BROseidon]

Slandaar is honest. That was the shit I was crumbing.

Mathematically it makes more sense to lynch outside the group than inside it for everyone if there are 5 or more scum, and if there are 4 it only makes more sense for the people within the 5 to want to lynch within the 5. If there are only 3 or 2 scum this game is designed horribly.

Math is hard, let's go shopping >:C

[BROseidon]

[quote="In post 1558, StubbsKVM"][/quote]

My guess is rofl right now, but it'll sort itself out.

[BROseidon]

I'm thinking Amrun might be my misfile.

PV-Zoidberg-Rofl-Amrun?

That sounds like a scumteam to me.

I really liked the way Amrun responded to my crumb, though. Last time I pulled off the same play the scumteam (minus the traitor who had no idea what I was doing) skirted the issue and tried not to engage with the crumb directly, although there was a bit of a different context involving the role wonkiness. Syryana can comment on it because he was scum in that game.

[BROseidon]

Titus, 4 cops of unknown sanities (ie, one is paranoid and one is naive, which are functionally useless), as scum (sans an SK or multiball shenanigans) start out the game either with one of them knowing who the 4 are or, more likely because having pregame chat is standard, they already know who the cops are.

pedit: An insane cop is just as useful as a sane cop once he knows his sanity.

[BROseidon]

Rift: He means that scum knows who he is in the group. It's functionally a side-game of Dethy.

And MS pming the mod to ask him isn't much town cred when the first thing I said in the QT was bitching about being in a side-game of Dethy because I hate Dethy.

[BROseidon]

We do not know what our sanities are, although they are revealed on death.

[BROseidon]

He obviously pmed the mod because I got the exact same answer which was strange because the PM's didn't make it clear the Liar was scum.

"Let me say I PM'd the mod for towncred even though I know I'm scum."

Your WIFOM is bad and you should feel bad.

If you didn't know that there was scum in the 5 BECAUSE WE'RE PLAYING DETHY then your mafia knowledge is horrible >.>

pedit: yes, that is exactly what the plan has been the entire time until rofl fucked up and attacked within the group.

pedit2: ZOIDBERG STOP BEING OBTUSE HOLY SHIT

[BROseidon]

Scum don't want to kill who we target, since it narrows down sanities and makes it obvious who is lying.

But it doesn't matter because we'll have it worked out eventually without actually having to scumhunt. It's why I hate Dethy.

[BROseidon]

Although it doesn't matter because we have scum to leak the target of the investigate, so we are functionally copping that person unless we have a vig who can shoot the person we target.

[BROseidon]

doccing, not copping.

>.>

[BROseidon]

I am unfamiliar with this mods targeting precedence, would you all get your results if the person died?

@Mod, if a cop targets someone who dies, does the cop get an investigative result

[BROseidon]

and tiphaine doesn't get to direct anything that will be going on with our cop pool because the only thing keeping his neck out of the noose imo is titus, who still doesn't seem to realize that tiphaine can be scum and still claim that he got day actioned

TD's been obvtown this entire game.

[BROseidon]

He could be town actually PMing the mod, or scum faking pming the mod (which wouldn't be that hard to figure out. That doesn't take a mastermind).

WIFOM.

[BROseidon]

NO.

WE GET SCUM IN THE GROUP EVENTUALLY NO MATTER WHAT.

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO LYNCH WITHIN THE GROUP. EVEN PROBABILISTICALLY THERE HAVE TO BE 4 OR FEWER SCUM TO BE MORE LIKELY TO HIT SCUM WITHIN THE GROUP, IGNORING THE FACT THAT WE HAVE AN INTERNAL SORTING METHOD.

[BROseidon]

IF THERE ARE 5 SCUM

1/5=20% FROM OUTSIDER PERSPECTIVE, 1/4 FOR US IN THE GROUP=25%

4/14 DETHY-GROUP CHANCE=>25%, 4/13 REST OF TOWN=HIGHER.

YOU CAN'T ALL BE THIS BAD AT MATH.

[BROseidon]

I have to run now. Gaymercon starts in an hour and I need to get showered and grab a quick bite to eat.

I'll be back on tonight for a bit when I get back. Will switch my vote then if Zoidberg looks worse than Baezu.

pedit: THANK YOU ORiOLE FOR NOT BEING DUMB.

[BROseidon]

Because math

This post wins the thread.

I would declare intent to hammer but I'm already on the wagon

[BROseidon]

1) Xenoblade. Xenogears hasn't happened yet. Also, I'd like to point out that my scumhunting there ended up being pretty spot on

2) "can break the hell out of Dethy" should read "Dethy is a dumb game that is incredibly broken and any group of people who can't break it need to go learn basic logic."

pedit: Sonic's thing doesn't even matter unless he flips scum once the Dethy game is over. It's not worth worrying about right now.

[BROseidon]

b) Math on lynching inside the dethy,

This is incredibly relevant.

Math is hard, let's ignore it.

Wait...

[BROseidon]

IF THERE ARE 5 SCUM

1/5=20% FROM OUTSIDER PERSPECTIVE, 1/4 FOR US IN THE GROUP=25%

4/14 DETHY-GROUP CHANCE=>25%, 4/13 REST OF TOWN=HIGHER.

YOU CAN'T ALL BE THIS BAD AT MATH.

Also, this math argument is reliant on there being 5 scum. Why? If there are 4 or less,

it's mathematically favorable for them to lynch inside the dethy.

(3/14) Dethy group chance = 21%, (3/13) Rest of town = 23%.

So it's favorable for four townies to lynch within the group and favorable for the rest to lynch outside still.

And that's ignoring the fact that the scum within the Dethy group dies anyways, so there is no reason to risk a mislynch there.

[BROseidon]

Both are true. The fact that there are this many people questioning it is seriously making me want to jump through the internet and yell at all of you IRL, because you all can't actually be scum, but it's hard for me to believe that people are that terrible at game theory.\

Like, any defense about why I am not scum is completely irrelevant because I will literally be sorted out anyways. It is a waste of town's time to discuss anything in the Dethy until we have investigative results. Most of the attack against me has been "He's been lurking" WHEN I FUCKING GOT PRODDED BECAUSE I DIDN'T GO V/LA WHEN I SHOULD HAVE.

Also, rofl's point about the timing of Zoidberg's attack on me is very good. rofl had called me scum a few days before the attack, but Slandaar called me scum 11 minutes before Zoidberg started the push against me.

[BROseidon]

Also I'm off to gaymerx again will be on later tonight.

[BROseidon]

Back from V/LA. Catching up now.

[BROseidon]

For anyone still wanting to lynch BRO - even though it's already been explained, perhaps me saying it again will make it more clear: there's no need to lynch within the dethy yet as it's guaranteed to work itself out. We get more info from Baezu lynch, too, imo.

I don’t understand why this is hard for everyone to understand.

The only reason I even consider I am wrong there is that Zoid makes it look like he and someone else(ghost) have daychat and he jumped on BRO to incite inhouse fighting;

Why does this only implicate GP?

Baezu why no read on me early on. I’m kind of a VIP here >.>

That said, that amount of effort looks pretty good. Still gonna keep an eye on you, but you’re doin’ better.

Baezu, bro, or bust! Baezu, bro, or bust!

Oh come on I know you’re a better player than this.

Zoidberg is not scum with broseidon because of how his (good) case brought the game to a head and really put the limelight on bro.

Zoid’s case was shit and timed in lockstep with Slandaar declaring a scumread on me in the QT. That is suspicious as fuck.

The best lynch to me seems to be BRO, he will flip scum and everyone can celebrate... well except the scum but that doesn't matter.

You are either scum or a complete idiot. Best lynch is obviously outside the Dethy group and I have been incredibly consistent with that both in and out of the QT. Like, did half this game seriously fail basic math or do you all just not care that you are being fucking morons.

The facts are that lynching the scum in the dethy;
Removes the link between scum and the dethy qt this is very useful in itself as they won't know who we targetted etc and we can work together in our qt to figure out results. By hiding them from scum this does a lot because scum will know the alignment of the targetted player and thus can take much more educated guesses as to which sanities we are (or just plain work them out) a lot quicker.

Then there is the fact while the scum is alive they will mess with results and make it harder for us to figure out who is what sanity, with the scum lynched today we can in fact work out sanities a lot quicker and easier.

This argument is incredibly short sited because EVERYONE IN THE QT IS GOING TO FUCKING DIE ANYWAYS. THAT’S HALF OF HOW WE’RE GOING TO WORK IT OUT, BECAUSE SCUM AREN’T GOING TO RISK LEAVING ALIVE 2 USEFUL COPS AND 2 OTHER “CONFIRMED” TOWNIES BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THE RESULTS WILL SORT THEMSELVES.

WAH WAH YOU MIGHT BE WRONG SLAND?!!!! Just have confidence! I am not.

This is the exact sort of fucking attitude that scum take advantage of. Townies need to treat the game probabilistically because there is intrinsically predominantly speculative/incomplete information. It’s like investing money.

And no I don't understand why people say math is a defence when the odds are not 1/5 because reads.

Same can be applied outside the Dethy group but better because you are starting at better odds.

Syr may also want to tackle answering this because it wasn't Rift that BRO appealed to, it was Syr. I don't think it had to do with wanting a strong player. I think it had to do with wanting a player who would understand the parallels he was seeing with the jobpick game.

I appealed specifically to Syr because he’s one of the few players who’s been on the receiving end of my crumbing-gambit before (if Nacho or kdub were here I would have also reached out to them). Syr knows first-hand what it’s like to be on the receiving end of me deliberately crumbing information involving setup-related information to goad people to help me get better reads, which is why I wanted him to pay close attention to see if he noticed any responses that looked like they came from a scum-perspective.

Why was he flailing in the first place if his goal was to cause a disaster in the thread by playing scummy? that is what you are suggesting happened, yes? or was the flail faked?

My use of the word “disaster” was my telling Syr, “Hey, remember that thing I did in jobpick with crumbing setup information? I’m doing that again.”

Zoid attacked BRO at the absolute opportune time to make the dethy boil over, why would he do that as scum/scum? it just wouldn't happen... getting his buddy BRO lynched would have been absolutely catastrophic for scum. Only way it could be scum/scum is if there is no daychat but honestly if Zoid is scum you should be assuming daychat due to the timing.

Can we lynch Zoidberg now. His attack on me was so perfectly in lockstep with Slandaar’s attack on me that the odds of that being a coincidence are abysmal.

That is the impression I got from him.

To have breadcrumbed whatever he did he must have been thinking rationally to copy whatever he did in game X, hence it is quite deliberate play. I thought everyone realised that. I thought the town argument was he deliberately played scummy to cause the disaster to get reactions and info, instead you are saying he just is scum who on the fly tried to mimic his town meta.

Well that is good.

So you’re saying that town play shouldn’t be done deliberately? Play should always be deliberate regardless of alignment, just deliberate in different ways. It’s called not be a shitty player.

And what I did wasn’t “playing scummy,” it was trying to goad out reactions that could be parsed as either town or scum based on how players in the past responded to it. That’s very strongly town-motivated.

Rifty Drifty I become increasingly convinced is sour. I want to be wrong, but I feel you are right on that. Eddie's slot is also scum, and when you throw in Zoidy and Ghostly, that's four names. If there is a fifth name (there is no guarantee of that; 19 players leaves it ambiguous balance-wise), it can be Bazzy, but it could also be someone else.

Syr’s response to my crumbing has made that slot an incredibly strong townread for me. I don’t think Syr would have responded that way were he scum.

Zoidberg’s timing in attacking me was too perfect. As I’ve said, the odds of that coming from town are way too low for me to let it go.

VOTE: Zoidberg

[BROseidon]

Here is the order of things:

rofl scumreads me in QT. A few days later, Slandaar also scumreads me. Right after Slandaar suggest that I'm scum, Zoidberg attacks me. Then entire QT scumreads me.

[BROseidon]

^Is that to me?

[BROseidon]

Hmm so you are suggesting slandaar scum rather than rofl scum?

I would argue it implicates MS and GP more, because scum would want to jump on town vs. town paranoia in the QT. Not that it matters, given that it will all work itself out anyways.

[BROseidon]

Prod dodge. Still here, was a holiday weekend in Canada.

When you get back you are justifying the fuck out of the trajectory and timing of your read on me, btw.

[BROseidon]

Stubbs, missed it.

Your logic is weak because all of the confirmed townies are going to die before having confirmed townies is relevant regardless of whether or not we lynch in the pool. You're thinking about this too much in the short-term, not the long term where everyone in the Dethy game inevitably dies.

[BROseidon]

I'd much prefer Zoidberg to AJ, although I'll vote AJ if I really have to.

The timing of his attack on me in the main thread being in perfect lockstep with Slandaar's attack of me in the QT was ridiculous. Like, let's look at this post:

Found me some scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Dude has had his vote parked on EddieFenix for ~40 pages now. His stated reasons for voting Eddie are that "he was scum with varsoon and should know better that this is not varsoon's scumgame"

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

This is a case. It does not involve interaction or engagement with me in any way. He doesn't try to discern my alignment, he's attacks me with certainty. Even the way he starts, "found me some scum," implies that this case was a sudden realization, and not one supported by any trajectory. No "I suspect you, let me ask questions," but just a "let me get you lynched now."

Right. After. Slandaar. Scumread. Me.

The fact that Amrun completely ignores this and continues to insist that Zoid is town and I am the scum despite the read materializing out of nowhere being turned into a full-push for my lynch is incredibly suspect as well.

[BROseidon]

Just because the timing is coincidental, how does that make Zoidberg scum? In fact, if, using the premise of that argument, scum have access to the dethy qt, WHY THE FUCK would he call one of you guys out as scum knowing what you will claim? It makes no fucking sense. That argument has ALWAYS been stupid.

Two things:

1) Scum benefit from the QT imploding on itself. The scum in there has to die eventually, so might as well try to push as many mislynches out of it as possible.

2) I had been pushing not to claim in the QT.

And it's not that the timing was coincidental, and I expect you to be smart enough to understand that.

[BROseidon]

Actually, why the fuck are you calling the timing "coincidental" when the entire point is that THE TIMING WAS TOO PERFECT FOR IT TO HAVE BEEN A COINCIDENCE.

HOLY FUCK AMRUN. YOU CANNOT BE THIS DENSE. TITUS IS PROBABLY RIGHT.

But first we lynch Zoidberg.

[BROseidon]

So you are saying that you do not find it suspect whatsoever that Zoidberg's attack was so perfectly timed.

You have got to be shitting me.

[BROseidon]

IT'S SUBOPTIMAL PLAY FOR TOWN TO LYNCH WITHIN THE DETHY GROUP.

WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU ARE TOWN IF YOU ARE PUSHING FOR SUBOPTIMAL TOWN PLAY?

[BROseidon]

No, Dethy is a mafia variant with 4 cops (one of each sanity) and 1 scum. We have a side-game of it this game.

Which is dumb.

>:C

[BROseidon]

Titus, 4 cops of unknown sanities (ie, one is paranoid and one is naive, which are functionally useless), as scum (sans an SK or multiball shenanigans) start out the game either with one of them knowing who the 4 are or, more likely because having pregame chat is standard, they already know who the cops are.

pedit: An insane cop is just as useful as a sane cop once he knows his sanity.

All the cops investigate themselves tonight. That will tell most of them which they are.

This is a horrible idea.

[BROseidon]

@PV: Because we're all dead anyways and we flip with sanities. It's better to leave town with information for the long-term.

And read the fucking thread.

[BROseidon]

Found me some scum.

VOTE: BROseidon

Dude has had his vote parked on EddieFenix for ~40 pages now. His stated reasons for voting Eddie are that "he was scum with varsoon and should know better that this is not varsoon's scumgame"

After parking his vote, Bro simply stops mentioning eddie save for one or two token mentions, e.g. 1009. No pushing, no probing, he certainly never tries to engage with Eddie. This is indicative of scum who's trying to stay out of the spotlight, since votes attract attention. He's trying to slip by, commenting on things without ever really committing, i.e. "Yeah I'd be fine with XYZ lynch" or "No, this is ABC's town game" but never offering deep analysis or insight.

Zoidberg's attack, since you're too lazy to ISO him.

[BROseidon]

Also AJ's case on GP doesn't matter can we drop it kthx.

[BROseidon]

Has someone posted a summary of cop-QT scumreads? Would like a summary in one spot- good for future reference.

I don't care about who it is because it doesn't matter, rest of the QT scumreads me.

And that is the post where Zoid starts his attack on me. You could have just power-skimmed the ISO for it.

[BROseidon]

Because I am very sure Rofl and Sonic are town.

Where were you trying to go with this? Were you reading my posts up till now?

So you are confirmation-biasing evidence. Good thing you are going to die soon because if you are town you would not be fun for the rest of town to work with.

Lets say that the mod told you who was scum in the Dethy, are you telling me you shouldn't lynch them because it will be sorted out by the Dethy? No of course not.

So, we now have determined there is a line where it actually is better to lynch in the Dethy, I am very sure I know who the scum in the Dethy is, I am over the line of 'don't lynch scum in the Dethy' if the odds truly were 1/4 you would have an argument but... you don't

The odds are lower than 1/4 due to reads you always seem to ignore this fact.

You’re right, there is a crossover point. Let’s do the math assuming 5 scum and 4 scum total (Three or less would be horrible game design, 6 is possible but doing it at 5 serves the same point). There is also as second point regarding this that RA has brought up multiple times when I am done mathing.

If there are 4 scum:

3/14 outside QT=21.4% are scum. From a townie’s perspective in this group, it’s 3/13=23.1% are scum.

1/5 in QT = 20% scum, ¼ for townies within that group=25%

Now we incorporate reads probabilistically, given that this is a game of imperfect information. You’re right, you’re not a banker (btw bankers are buyside not sellside so you should really be saying that you aren’t a hedgefund manager but I digress).

For outside the QT, “base” chances of hitting scum are 23.1% and 20% for the two groups. 23.1/20=1.155, which would mean that, ignoring the setup stuff, someone from outside of the QT would need to be 15.5% more certain of their scumread on someone inside the QT than on anyone from outside the QT to want to lynch me today. This is valid math for 11 people in this setup.

For inside the QT, it’s 25/21.4=16.8%, which is how much more likely they would need to view an outside read over an inside read to want to lynch the outside person over the inside person. This is valid for four people in this setup.

Now let’s look at 5 scum:

4/14=28.5% outside QT are scum, 4/13=30.8% for townies within this group. Numbers for the members of the QT remain the same.

In this case, a townie outside of the QT would want scumread on someone within QT 54% more than anyone outside the QT to want to lynch inside the QT. Similarly, for someone within the QT to favor a QT-internal lynch to a QT-external one, they would need to favor that lynch by 14%.

This is also ignoring the fact that eventually the QT will resolve itself because of the cop alignments. Cops will get NK’d, narrowing the pool, and we’ll have verifiable results to catch out the lying scum. Risking any number of mislynches within the QT is dumb when the mod has handed us a free scumlynch if we are patient.

Oh Kay! You didn't play scummy BRO! so, how were you trying to Goad these reactions out again? remind me because I just don't understand it.

I was using a tactic involving crumbing information asymmetry to gauge responses to try to see who had additional information. Fun fact, this worked the last time I did it and helped get scum Syr/Nacho hydra lynched eventually.

[BROseidon]

The correct play is for you to let us work out how we are doing it because we need to take into account the fact that scum may have ways to fuck with our results.

[BROseidon]

Consensus is the Dethy QT is to lynch the fuck out of the Elvis slot. We also didn't come up with if we are going to claim in order, and we've lost our day chat, so...

QT people: Should we Condorcet-vote for claim order, or just all claim?

Also, FUCK YOU EVERYBODY ZOIDBERG FLIPPED SCUM YOU ASSHOLES.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: Muffinman

[BROseidon]

We lost daychat b/c Zoidberg.

[BROseidon]

Also, we targeted different people because of paranoia regarding scum having a way to mess with our results. None of us stated in QT who our targets were, so I only know my result.

[BROseidon]

Amrun, read my first post. We never decided on a claim order.

RA: AJ was an obvious attempt to counter-wagon Zoidberg.

[BROseidon]

We really should have Condorcet-voted a claim order in the QT before day phase started (Condorcet vote is where we each post a ranking from first to last, and then we tally the scores and that determines the order, in case anybody doesn't know).

[BROseidon]

I am also in favor of everyone claiming results in-thread today, in case that wasn't clear.

[BROseidon]

I agree with the Ghostly head. The scum already likely knows your results unless we are in multiball. Given the flips, I'm almost certain we are not in multiball.

Nobody knows anybody else's results. I only know mine.

[BROseidon]

If we're doing this:

I vote GP->Metal->Slandaar->rofl->myself.

Waiting on 3 votes, then we can tally.

[BROseidon]

I find it odd that both BRO and Zoidberg want to go last. I'd say, have the person who the deathy trusts most determine the order if you picked such an individual.

Generally you want to claim last and have your most suspected person claim first. Same as in mass claim.

[BROseidon]

Zoidberg flip looks excellent for me and rofl caught the timestamp.

[BROseidon]

What's your answer BRO? Scenario 1 or Scenario 2?

1. Duh

[BROseidon]

and by 1 I mean "the people in the Dethy decide and everybody else doesn't give input"

[BROseidon]

...

I don't know what my sanity is. The point of the investigates right now is to produce good long-term information.

[BROseidon]

Not really. Unless "woo, information" is a feeling >.>

[BROseidon]

My turn to claim. I got:

Amrun->Guilty

[BROseidon]

My turn to claim. I got:

Amrun->Guilty

Why did you check Amrun?

Based on the QT and what people were saying yesterday, I didn't think that Amrun would be put under serious pressure until day 3 or 4, at which point my investigative result would resolve the issue. Clearly I messed that one up >.>

[BROseidon]

Why the fuck am I being lynched? If its because of a dethy guilty then you all should feel fucking ashamed of yourselves.

I don't have time to read such a dense thread right now.

You're insistence on townreading Zoidberg and scumreading me for so long DESPITE THE CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT ZOIDBERG'S PUSH ON ME WAS AN ATTEMPT TO PUSH A MISLYNCH AMONG A GROUP OF PLAYERS WHERE A MISLYNCH SHOULD NOT HAPPEN is far more indicting.

I still would rather leave you around for a day or two, though.

Also rofl is right he should not claim.

[BROseidon]

I would rather not share. Rofl should share his results in the QT as close to actions being locked as possible.

[BROseidon]

The most rofl could reveal is whether you, BRO, are known paranoid

Or we can WIFOM the fuck out of this point for better long-term results.

[BROseidon]

@BRO, I get your probably town but you are playing suboptimally right now. Town needs the most information it can get. I doubt you are psychic and know what Rofl actually got. If you can tell us why you want to withhold the reason from the rest of the town, I might be more understanding. Yet, reasons is typically a bad excuse.

It's bad for rofl to potentially reveal me as paranoid. Keeping his result secret prevents scum from knowing what I am for sure.

[BROseidon]

BRO, what about the part where if you're confirmed to be paranoid we can get a scum result by finding the insane cop who then had to have found scum last night?

You're thinking about this in the short term. I'm thinking about it in the long-term.

My priority is not resolving this as quickly as possible, my priority is milking as much information out of this as possible.

[BROseidon]

Elaborate please.

I do not doubt that the Dethy will resolve itself, so I want the remaining town to have as much usable information as possible once that happens.

[BROseidon]

ROFL, are you willing to reveal, without mentioning the target, whether you got an innocent or a guilty?

Bad.

[BROseidon]

Why is that bad?

We have town-sided WIFOM in play. Let's keep it that way.

[BROseidon]

@mod V/LA through Monday evening. I'm going out of town for the weekend

[BROseidon]

Back.

Looks like I only have 11 pages to catch up on right now. Will try to catch up ASAP.

[BROseidon]

PEDIT: BRO, BABY, WE'RE LYNCHING METAL SONIC AND DRINKING OUR ASSES OFF, JOIN USSSSSS

wat.

Lynching within Dethy still bad >:C

[BROseidon]

Bro, I ask you to check me tonight. If you are the sane cop, then we have hit a landmine on scum. If I come back guilty, then you must be insane or paranoid.

I will not be talking about my investigation plans with anyone at all because the entire reason we seem "disorganized" is to deal with tailors/framers.

[BROseidon]

PEDIT: BRO, BABY, WE'RE LYNCHING METAL SONIC AND DRINKING OUR ASSES OFF, JOIN USSSSSS

Actually caught up to this point. Still don't think it's a good idea.

Plus I spent all weekend drinking red wine I don't need more booze.

[BROseidon]

Right?! I'm particularly disappointed in BRO.

Why particularly me? I've been against lynching within the Dethy until we have it down to 2 people for the entire game.

[BROseidon]

This game is painful. If you guys let scumNat eat a dethy member, it will be the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Even if she ends up being town it's just as stupid. Shit.

This.

Also:

VOTE: p5 pretty sure this is the way to go today. Only reason I think Nati is town is that scumNati should have used the ability night one on me or rofl and then not claimed it.

[BROseidon]

All of the dethy cops are still cops and no one claimed to have been vanilla-ized after I claimed.

This is literally the only reason my vote is not on you right now.

[BROseidon]

No idea why you would have used that ability within the dethy last night as scum. Would have just been blind guessing. Very suboptimal

Why do scum need a cop?

[BROseidon]

If scum, you would not want to vanillaize the dethy yet, since they would be confirmed town when you did that. And you would be under just as much suspicion, and your scumteam would still have no clue about the sanity stolen until some results panned out, so faking it would be as much of a pain as it is for them right now.

How would this have confirmed one as town. "OH LOOK I GOT VANILLAIZED" does not seem like a pro-town thing to say from the Dethy. People would consider a scum-gambit. And it does nothing to "shield" the cop power, since Nati would either have to claim to "confirm" or remain anonymous to be able to continue investigations.

Amrun: Vanillaize one shoot another. 75% chance you remove at least one useful cop.

[BROseidon]

Town-Nat
1. claims ability stolen ("investigate one player....").
a. If ability is not cop, we caught and lynch scum.
b. If ability is cop, then the now-vanilla player is confirmed town. This means better chance of finding scum in the dethy now.

Scum-Nat
1. claims ability stolen.
a. if tells the truth, confirmed town (see b above)
b. Lies. We lynch now-vanilla town, who flips town. We lynch scum-Nat.

Why would scum Nat have claimed vanillaizer instead of anything else?

[BROseidon]

Such as?

Okay, let's do a little thought experiment, because you are being either exceptionally scummy or stupid today:

I am a scum Vanillaizer that can steal a role. I start the game knowing that there are 4 Cops, one of each sanity, playing a little side-game of Dethy, thanks to my scumbuddy in the group. We, as scum, now have this nifty tool that can fuck with them and cause chaos within their group.

Night 1 roles around. We decide, as a scum team, to shoot within the Dethy group because fuck cops (and we are aware of their plans to spread their investigations such that we can't use a tailor/traitor that we may or may not have to wreck them). What do I do?

I FUCKING STEAL ONE COP POWER AND HAVE MY SCUM TEAM KILL ANOTHER ONE TO GUARANTEE DENYING THE TOWN INSANELY USEFUL INFORMATION REGARDING THE RESOLUTION OF THE DETHY. I WOULD THEN BE ABLE TO FEED A SANITY TO MY SCUM PARTNER IN THE GROUP TO PUSH THE WHOLE "THIS VANILLAIZER THING IS A GAMBIT" IDEA. THAT IS WHAT I WOULD DO IF I WERE SCUM IN NAT'S POSITION, AND IT'S NOT EVEN A HARD CHOICE.

THEN ON DAY 2, EVEN UNDER PRESSURE I WOULDN'T CLAIM VANILLAIZER BECAUSE THE COP WOULD CLAIM THAT HE GOT VANILLAIZED. CONFIRMATION OF THAT ROLE ACTUALLY EXISTING WOULD RESOLVE THAT IT IS NOT A GAMBIT AND THE VANILLAIZER IS SCUM. I WOULD CLAIM SOMETHING – ANYTHING – ELSE.

[BROseidon]

Fine, amrun lynch a-go. Just makes me feel bad about my investigative choice

VOTE: amrun

Ghost, day 1 results can be used on day 5. You don't need to know the meaning of the results right away, so long as you learn them eventually. That's why it's important to remove the cop results as quickly as possible, and why scum fucked up in not killing us.

Which is also why I'm paranoid as fuck about there being a tailor in play.

[BROseidon]

Ugh I don't like this lynch. Can we lynch Amrun tomorrow if Nati flips town?

[BROseidon]

I would 150-200% lynch p5.

AJ is pretty fucking town after the whole "AJ is counterwagon to scum" thing.

[BROseidon]

explain this thing plz.

There is a wagon on scum.

A last-second counter-wagon forms on someone and threatens to fizzle the wagon on scum.

Wagon on scum goes through.

That second wagon is not suspect at all >.>

[BROseidon]

[quote="In post 2932, Rift Adrift"][/quote]

The wagon picked up steam in response to the Zoidberg wagon, though.

[BROseidon]

That AJ post was incredibly town.

Now are we lynching p5 or Amrun because this Nati lynch is bad.

[BROseidon]

I can't believe you two would do something so monumentally stupid >:C

[BROseidon]

Yeah, I can confirm that rofl did not confirm his target.

But I can confirm that rofl got an innocent, and that one of {Stubbs, Titus, rofl's target} is scum.

Knowing rofl's target would help. Gonna check to see if he crumbed it anywhere.

Oh yeah condorcet vote for reveal order:

MS
GP
Slandaar
Myself

[BROseidon]

I didn't vote Nati

Stubbs, no reaction to my "you have a 1/3 chance of being scum" post?

[BROseidon]

Tailor, framer, godfather, roleblocker, to name a few >.>

[BROseidon]

Well GP wants to be a prick and not claim so....

pedit: How do you know those came from the same person, and how do you know the neighborizor is town?

[BROseidon]

Titus, YOU MEAN BRO, NOT BAEZU >:C

And I crumbed pretty hard that I'm paranoid. I'm pretty sure Rofl got an innocent N1, and he didn't want to confirm me. I'm really wishing he'd just claimed a fucking target...

also, p5's posts are horrible and I'd be okay lynching that or Amrun today.

[BROseidon]

p5 you are reading the thread. Are you dense or scum?

[BROseidon]

^That is also an acceptable vote.

But it's coming from someone that I think is scum.

What to do...

Muffin, Amrun, p5 are the lynches I'll support today. LISTEN TO MY READS GUYS, THEY TEND TO BE GOOD. ROFL ALSO HAD BOTH AMRUN AND MUFFIN AS SCUM, AND P5 TOWN ONLY BY POE. ROFL ALSO TENDS TO HAVE GOOD READS.

[BROseidon]

...Well that was a premature claim.

Claim itself is still pretty null, imo, but I have a town read on Oriole so it's k.

[BROseidon]

How do you know you are paranoid?

It's not hard to figure out...

[BROseidon]

What was ROFL result night 1 and his target?

He forgot to tell us. He was going to do it right before deadline, I think hoping scum would go after me over him because he know I was paranoid.

I'll just claim my action b/c I already crumbed it down to 2 targets. I got AJ->Guilty.

[BROseidon]

^misrep.

He never claimed innocent. I figured that out >.>

[BROseidon]

So GP is Naive or Sane or scum. Got it.

MS and Slandaar need to at least claim result, if not target and result (especially if they got differing.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: slandaar

[BROseidon]

Nah Slandaar, between you and BRO. we're thinking you.

How does my day 1 play with Zoidberg make any sense if I'm scum?

[BROseidon]

Oh, I thought you meant "thinking you as scum."

Also I'm investigated Muffin last night and got guilty, again. Even though I'm almost certainly paranoid, I'm going to keep using my power because why not.

Also GP didn't reveal who they investigated night 2 ever which still pisses me off.

[BROseidon]

Though I could get really paranoid about how quickly you pointed that out. :/

Ugh, I need to calm down.

I'm on a super-emotional high right now because:

1) Slandaar is caught. Even if I get mislynched, he goes next or gets vigged.

2) CoL vs. TBD is about to start and I like both of those teams a ton because they are the two gayest teams in pro LoL (League of Legends, for those that don't follow).

[BROseidon]

Nah Slandaar, between you and BRO. we're thinking you.

I misread this.

[BROseidon]

Swapped the names because you posted right after me, so I thought it was addressed to me.

[BROseidon]

They would not have stolen MS's ability unless he was sane or insane. Therefore, I like Stubbs as scum and Ghostly Penguin as sane.

They would have had no way to have known this.

Also Slandaar posted in the QT N2 that he thought Amrun was town and that scum were mostly on the Amrun wagon, so Amrun-scum with scum on Nati wagon (or split between the two) makes sense.

[BROseidon]

Does it make sense that Stubbs would fight that hard over being bussed? Not really. If Stubbs had an even more valuable scum role - say vanillaizer - then I don't think he would have been a bus target in the first place.

Scum theatre?

[BROseidon]

btw my picks for where the other scum are in Amrun/p5/Stubbs/Mac from strongest to weakest. An Amrun townflip would make me re-evaluate my muffin read.

RA is my strongest townread at this point. Titus is also a fairly strong townread, and I think Slandaar's trying to throw shade on the slot before going down. I'd like Oriole to post more because he's generally doing a good job when he posts, but the lack of volume bothers me a bit. Baezu's day 1 response to her wagon seemed town, but the lack of content since makes her my weakest townread.

[BROseidon]

Even if you want to argue scum can't steal abilities its still a better situation to go 1v1 with ghost over bro its just common sense but I have been setup pretty hard.

[BROseidon]

Don't know why this didn't work the first time

[BROseidon]

What town-motivation would there be to him trying to conceal his result if he got a guilty?

[BROseidon]

Completely depends on the target,

Which, we don't know.

Dat non-answer.

[BROseidon]

WIFOM indicates that there is a valid, cyclical reasoning cycle that leads you around in circles.

So, the "It's better to go against GP" argument gets countered with "ah, but you could go against BRO and then use that argument to get us to lynch BRO," which in turn gets, "ah, yes, but BRO-scum would have known that that counter-argument would get made," repeat infinitely.

That new answer is actually valid, but still weak given:

1) From my perspective, I know you're scum

2) From everyone else's perspective, that would mean scum could steal abilities 3 (or more) times. That is op as fuck.

[BROseidon]

Mass claim tomorrow sounds good.

[BROseidon]

I like Slandaar as the deathy scum. However, we should cover our bases in the RARE event that Slandaar is not scum. This should be done before the massclaim as massclaim gives Slandaar the convinent out of checking the most guilty player and say "Whoops my reads were obviously wrong".

Stubbs''s Post is just awkward. Why didn't you CC nati during all that time Nati was the focus? Why didn't you say it's possible there is a town chocolate zombie AND I am the town chocolate zombie? Your claim comes after the fact. Why?

Also, why wouldn't you take my ability as you are a prime candidate for a mislynch?

Instead, you take Slandaar's ability to probably save the rolecop for the scums in case the deathy tells you to go to hell? I Do Not Like This.

Agreed. And now it seems even worse that you held on to that piece of information until now. If you had cc'ed, then it may have been believable, but now?

And why didn't you out the possibility that there was such a role as chocolate zombie when most of the votes on Nati were due to the fact that we did not believe that role existed for town?

I could believe that you are a chocolate zombie as well, but I do not believe that you're aligned with town.

VOTE: Stubbs

It sure looks like you are claiming scum here. This is a logic fail of epic proportions.

If it was scum's goal to salvage the rolecop abillity before Slandaar was lynched...WHY WOULD EITHER SLANDAAR OR STUBBS ANNOUNCE IT IN THE GAME THREAD??

There are not enough l's and o's to indicate my response to this post.

[BROseidon]

No, I just found your response hilarious. Baezu is the one who missed the obvious shit.

[BROseidon]

If scum were conserving their rolecop, why would they announce IN THREAD "hey, rolecop?" Towncred?

Seems like a pretty shitty way to go about it.

[BROseidon]

We're not lynching Stubbs today. Slandaar is obvscum being obvious.

On the one hand I want Mac to finish, but on the other hand Slandaar is doing that caught-scum thing where he spams the thread with absurd comments and crazy WIFOM shit, and that really fucking annoys me.

[BROseidon]

Slandaar, if I could put another vote on you, I would.

Too bad my vote is already on you, and I only get one.

[BROseidon]

Sounds good. I do also want to hear what p5 has to say.

[BROseidon]

Basically I was trying to work out in my head how stubbs could be a Town chocolate zombie and I came to the conclusion that he couldn't. That's why I voted him.

Can you walk through your line of reasoning, taking into account the fact that, if scum were trying to preserve their rolecop, they wouldn't announce to the thread "Oh btw we have a rolecop."