Death's Diner -Game Over-

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Jabarkas

[Slandaar]

I'm suspicious of the Slandaar vote, though. Who puts three votes on someone in RVS?

lol

What is the wrong with putting 3 votes on someone in RVS when it is 10 to lynch?

anyways...

VOTE: Titus

[Slandaar]

Hmm. It seems I was anticipating something that never materialized.

Which was?

[Slandaar]

Because it's odd. There's plenty of people in the game that you could have put an RVS on that didn't already have one. Now you're going to Titus when called out for it.

No, I voted Titus because hes scum.

How can anyone have any kind of reasonable reaction to a reasonless vote?

You Reacted for one.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, my gut tells me that was not random.

VOTE: oriole

Random votes with no reason.

Yeah another vote without a reason....

If you are town and vote without reason and then others do, there is literally no reason to question it (you are town who did it so why wouldn't other town) also realise he is saying 'another vote' which means mine was included which he posted after with no reasoning. Why would he do that if he believes they should be explained?

Nah, Xx MLG_Stubbs_360NOVOTEZ xX already had a vote on me.

I'm suspicious of the Slandaar vote, though. Who puts three votes on someone in RVS?

- 小龍

Don't forget stubbs's fourth.

Weird kind of encouragement 'get those guys!' while not doing anything himself; where is his vote?

5 votes already

Yeah I realized Stubbs wasn't a fourth. Paranoia suggests Stubbs is lyncher and Slandaar is scum.

Why isn't Jabs scum again? why is he even thinking a lyncher is in the game? Why are we not just both scum? Doesn't make any sense to be assuming what he is.

[Slandaar]

I don't know if Jabs is scum or not yet. Given the urge to lynch him and the game hasn't really started, I'd go with town for now.

Who said anything about lynching him?

Stubbs was posting that he was voting Varsoon artificially inflating the count to those who weren't watching closely. Paranoia on you because you seem to really want Jabs lynched

lol

'if 7 more people came into the thread and voted Jabs without realising Stubbs was voting he could get lynched!!!' Never going to happen. Just playing the 'lets sound protown' card.

Again; Where did I say I wanted to lynch him?

Random votes are not votes with no reason. They are random in order to start the game. Reasonless votes are suspect, no matter how many are on the train.

Explain why you made a reasonless vote then;

Slandaar, my gut tells me that was not random.

VOTE: oriole

I like the way you are just making things up.

You over reacted for a mental note where even I said I was paranoid.

Well considering I voted you before that your 'argument' doesn't hold.

[Slandaar]

My vote on oriole was RVS, thus not reasonless like I defined. Third and forth votes are not random and thus need a reason to be done.

Ugh

So, you just have literally no clue what RVS is, I will reread this tomorrow I need to relook at stuff; RVS does not mean pure random. 3rd and 4th are (probably) not random by definition of the word random but they don't mean the people making them want a lynch either, however, by making wagons you get more information from pressure and reactions than everyone voting purely at random because that accomplishes exactly nothing.

For example, what did your vote do? exactly; nothing. /lesson.

[Slandaar]

A purely random vote may usually do that. Mafia are the ones who jump for no logical reason.

If everyone voted completely randomly, what happens when everyone knows everyone is voting completely randomly? NOTHING.

Nothng happens because no votes mean anything at all.

You claim reaction fishing but a seasoned player will not have a reaction to that many votes. It too is pointless.

OK look over Jabs posts when he got a few votes, or yours. It worked and the game began. How much did your random vote contribute? it didn't your vote was completely pointless.

However, my votes seem to get the game going and scum are likely thinking easy mislynch. Well, not this game. Scum will pay if y'all lynch me. I'm not afraid. Bring it on.

No it didn't as shown above, your vote did nothing.

anyways

UNVOTE:

Will relook at this tomorrow.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Baezu

This game is such a mess...

Where is your fire and brimstone, Slandaar?

lol

Why the unvote, Slandaar?

My vote on oriole was RVS, thus not reasonless like I defined. Third and forth votes are not random and thus need a reason to be done.

Ugh

So, you just have literally no clue what RVS is, I will reread this tomorrow I need to relook at stuff; RVS does not mean pure random. 3rd and 4th are (probably) not random by definition of the word random but they don't mean the people making them want a lynch either, however, by making wagons you get more information from pressure and reactions than everyone voting purely at random because that accomplishes exactly nothing.

For example, what did your vote do? exactly; nothing. /lesson.

The guy just made a big revelation. What I was thinking was wrong. It was late thus 'will look at this tomorrow'

[Slandaar]

However, my votes seem to get the game going and scum are likely thinking easy mislynch. Well, not this game. Scum will pay if y'all lynch me. I'm not afraid. Bring it on.

Show me where one of your random votes achieved something.

[Slandaar]

RVS is a method of getting the game going. My vote in this game tells me Stubbs isn't reading with any sort of eye for detail.

Your vote did not do anything it was the votes on Jabs getting a reaction from you/jabs that actually 'got the game going'

However, my votes seem to get the game going

You made a completely random vote with no reasoning, so show me where a vote like that has accomplished something.

[Slandaar]

Sometimes RVS succeeds. Sometimes it fails. The original Jabs vote was likely RVS. RVS is a method. A single RVS vote doesn't likely move the game from RVS by itself.

lol

Just think when it fails. 9 players all vote randomly, player 1; so uh, what do we do next? player 2; dunno, more random votes? fun ensues.

I see you learnt this trash from Thor, so that makes sense at least. He didn't explain it properly.

RVS does not mean you vote at RANDOM because random does not do anything the basic idea is to vote with a reason even if its terrible and then esclate things one way or another, one such way is to just vote one person and start a wagon and then people will say stuff about the wagon via reactions people like you. It always works.

I still want an example of where your random vote did something.

[Slandaar]

Titus:
You didn't intend that and its not really a useful discussion. Go and reread with your new understanding.

[Slandaar]

i wonder if speaking in another language is against the rules?

Yes it definitely is.

[Slandaar]

Jabarkas glad that everyone in this game is a walking textbook on the wrong definitions of things.
Jabarkas not so glad we waste time arguing about how wrong everyone is.
You guys need play game.


-V

lol

Them walking textbooks on the wrong definitions of things! so annoying!

Obviously town can buddy town; town benefits from it in exactly the same way scum does just like town can lurk or any other 'scumtell'.

Town
Stubbs
Jabs
Rofl
Bro
Amrun
Zoid
Ori

Maybe town
Penguin
PV
TD

Titus; Depends what he says if he does go and reread but hes probably town, I can see what he has been saying now, its terrible but it makes sense following his rules.

Then
Baezu, bad intro ignoring a lot of things and focusing on 'weird' not scummy with lotsa nice buzzwords.
Rift, 'independent thought = scum' trying to suggest I can't change my mind is beyond bad also.
Eddie, plain reads list did nothing else. didn't contribute at all; decent vote.
Sonic Done nothing
Wolf Don't remember them
AA very quiet.
elvis Do not remember anything they said

[Slandaar]

Because he is/was thinking what I was about Titus and his reasonless vote.

[Slandaar]

Titus: Yes the fundamental differences were the issue. (your fundamentals are bad I hope you realise this) Did you go and reread to reassess things now you know how others view things?

[Slandaar]

@Titus/Slandaar: Wanna group on the wolf?

I prefer my vote where it is.

Anyway, I do think Jabarkus has been acting

weird

- the overreaction on the votes, the overly defensive attitude, the comment on Slandaar.

Its one of these things scum do, like when they call people anti-town instead of scum it is using the wrong wording or they say pro-town instead of town.

Town say I think jabs is scum for x or acting scummy etc.

[Slandaar]

@ mod, are we in confirmed non multiball?

The mod obviously can't answer you but; why are you asking?

[Slandaar]

prove that you should replace out of this game?

None of this thank you.

I'm seriously considering moving to level 2, because of you Jabs.

lol

I'm on level 3 so do it, I need a concrete read on you!

I see a lot of back and forth between Amrun and Jabarkus.

I see wagons on Beazu and Stubbs.

I see Beazu has posted once.

I see stubbs made some odd comment about somebody being town and having a buddy.

I think I saw something Ghostlin said that made me think they're not a worry.

Thank you for your input.

Ok, that's enough, out of all of you.

Jabs, if Amrun was scum, no way in hell he would still be on titus after I blew the fuck out of that wagon. Let it go.

Titus, don't help out with the shitstorm that is Amrun and jabs, you're just encouraging town on town.

Amrun, I have role related info that says jabs is town. Though honestly at this point I can see your point of view because, even with that information, I want to fucking vote him. Unfortunately, I cannot, so go vote someone useful.

Rift, same message to you as titus. I know you think you're defending an obv town from someone who's scummy as fuck. What is actually happening here is you are helping to create the smoke cloud for real scum to hide behind.

So can we all just fucking chill? Because as far as I am concerned right now.

Tits
Jabs
Amrun
Rift
Rofl

Are all town. So all ya'll lay off each other and come vote stubbs with me, K?

Town

@Jabs: If a post is misread then it was misread by the person not by an alignment. Think about it.

[Slandaar]

Stubbs do you have a completed scum game I can look at please?

[Slandaar]

Eh Stubbs seems town to me.

I get that a lot. I usually find myself agreeing with others instead of finding scum myself.

I'm trying though.

I would think that most of it is about Titus actually.

Pretty town.

Vote: Amrun

This, combined with the poor way you pressured me to make a Titus case for you, combined with your weak, WIFOM-y Titus case...
I think there's enough votes on Baezu to get something from the slot.
And I know Stubbs isn't active in this game.
Having a vote on you is the best vote right now.

-V

Every line in this post is crappy.
It's funny how you keep trying to come off as having all the answers.
Anyone who doesn't agree with your reads is scum or a "lvl 1 town", and others who aren't keeping up with your amount of shitposting are "not active" "lurkers".

The least you can do is show some respect for players who are trying to contribute to this game. Some people have a real life and aren't online 24/7.

Very town.

Rift: Could you show me why you were so strongly in favour of a Titus lynch? I must have missed it in your ISO or were you voting purely for that 'ATE' stuff.

[Slandaar]

I have been half-following events, and while i agree that the lurkers are problematic and there is probably some scum in there, I think lurker lynch for a D1 wagon is weak sauce and tells us nothing, and that people who want to lurker lynch on D1 are potentially scummy.

VOTE: metalsonic

So basically you want to lynch a lurker after suggesting lynching a lurker is a bad idea as it tells us nothing?

I see.

[Slandaar]

What do you mean that is your rationale?

[Slandaar]

Well they do.

'I get that a lot. I usually find myself agreeing with others instead of finding scum myself.'

This bit;

'I'm trying though.'

Reads completely genuine and thus makes him pretty town (its obviously not a surefire thing but I like it)

[Slandaar]

When it comes to votes, Syr and I go about trajectory differently, but early unsupported votes are a tactic that we both sometimes use to see what shakes loose wrt to the person voted and wrt to other players' reactions. We thought roflcopter was making a lot of sense at the point where Syr dropped a vote.

We thought titus' freakout over a 3 vote rvs wagon on another player and his dissonance about RVS being reasonless or not looked pretty bad. His subsequent reactions and early partiial-claim also didn't sit well.

We thought you were making sense, as well, and when you unvoted and backed away, it particularly pinged for Syr, but later developments have assuaged most of that concern.

The bolded is your answer nice waffle though.

Do you realise why the dissonance and 3 vote wagon isn't good reasoning now?

[Slandaar]

You two amuse me. Never change.

[Slandaar]

Are you talking about Stubbs here?

Yes.

I think you discount that reasoning too heavily.

No he gave an explanation that makes sense albeit a bit crazy but hes new here and probably learnt it from other sites. Thus unless you can prove one way or the other his beliefs are not his beliefs there is no argument here.

@Slandaar: I mean, yeah, that's pretty genuine, but scum could write those letters in that arrangement just as easily. It's not too hard to play town when you're playing scum.

They could which is why its not surefire.

But as you agreed it does look pretty genuine and so does look quite town.

My other point was good too, but I thought is more obvious; he was defending a town read from a case (a terrible case) although you won't see it that way.

[Slandaar]

Guys I think it is time to move to level 5 them scums wont know what hit em!

(Spoilered is for Titus/Jabs only really)

Spoiler:

Level 1 - Straight up, playing what you are
Level 2 - Pretending to be something else.
Level 3 - Pretending to be something pretending to be something else.

Not sure what level 0 is though.

That isn't how it works at all.

Level 0 playing randomly (doesn't really apply to mafia much)
Best way to play vs Level 0 is to play straight up
Level 1 plays straight up
Best way to play vs level 1 is to listen to what they say and take it as fact
Level 2 Plays in a way that takes peoples actions as fact or face value
Best way to play vs level 3 is to understand they interpret actions as fact/face value and play against that
Level 3 Playing against someone who takes actions as fact

And it goes on to eternity. Level 4 would be playing against someone who is playing against someone who takes actions as fact etc. It is easier to have examples in 1v1 games rather than team games which mafia is.

I think thats about right, its a good enough example anyways. The basic principle behind it is the way people think can be broken down into levels. In relation to (most) games this means that to beat them you need to firstly identify what level the person in question thinks on and then play on that level above them thats how I understand it anyways (Titus your version is definitely wrong) levels more than 1 apart are completely irrelevant to each other although generally higher odd beats lower even and higher even beats lower odd.

Anyways enough level talk its really pointless as its very very hard to apply in mafia;

Back to the game

[Slandaar]

That is Aunt Jemina don't be so rude Amrun.

VOTE: Elvis

Yeah lets go with this.

[Slandaar]

Yeah I fell into the trap of Baezu attacking one of my other major suspects so she looked townier.

Baezu is scum.

VOTE: Baezu

[Slandaar]

I have gotten so-SO tired of people being force replaced, suspended, banned, whatever the fuck. This over policing style seriously bugs me. What are we, mtgs?

If people don't break the rules they don't get the punishments. It is not over policing it is enforcing rules, they are not there just as guidelines.

I agree about his early play and unvote. And I mostly agree about his overall play. But, he started to slip scumward again IMO starting with post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5171944 and going on for his next few posts after that. Calling Stubbs town for maiking contextless posts doesn't add up IMO.

Context of quote 1: He is saying his scumhunting is bad but he is trying the trying bit looks town.
Context of quote 2: He is defending a townread of his (strongly)

What other Context is required?

The other main reason I find him town is his attack on Titus but those 2 quotes are good and should stem any further votes on him with less effort.

Stubbs IS town.

To answer about meta, I typically will not read a completed game which I have not already read or skimmed for the purposes of meta inside a current game.

However, if I read or skimmed a completed game, then I will probably read what is offered to get a better meta read.

It is safer to assume I will not read the game, so if you have reads based off of meta, link to the game, describe the player, describe what's similar, and describe what is different, to give me an idea.

What?

This is a waffly mess.

Elvis/Baezu as buddies? I don't think its that unlikely, Elvis was the one suggesting not to lynch lurkers and then Baezu comes in takes the easy route during her 'catchup' and just distances/busses.

+ I find them both independently to be scum but I am happy lynching Baezu today as actually I am pretty certain she is scum.

[Slandaar]

or did not comment on

This is why Baezu is scum.

[Slandaar]

Fuck, this game moved fast! I checked in yesterday and it wasn't even going...

Anyway, I do think Jabarkus has been acting weird - the overreaction on the votes, the overly defensive attitude, the comment on Slandaar.

VOTE: Mayo

Baezu, bad intro ignoring a lot of things and focusing on 'weird' not scummy with lotsa nice buzzwords.

So that was my view after this first post.

Then her second call it 'introduction' she committed the same crime of ignoring a lot of things for the second time and only focusing on one thing (which was elvis). She did start saying scum this and scummy etc, but that was probably because I made a bigger deal of that point and thus she fixed it in her play. (I would argue if she kept using similar language she would be town)

Now, everyone after this post can either vote Baezu or explain to me why you do not think she is scum. Focusing on one person during both of her 'intros' or catchups whatever you want to call them is SCUM.

[Slandaar]

I Slandaar the leader of this sham of a town decree it is not a slip! It is clearly not its just nitpicking to the extreme.

Anyways, lets all just lynch Baezu. I will read the pages I havn't read at some other point.

[Slandaar]

@TD/Slandaar, since we like each other as town (I think), why don't we put together a list of people we are willing to lynch, look at the pros and cons and decide as a unit who we want to lynch?

Sure lets do it
Baezu----Rift-Elvis------Eddie-----------AJ-----------------------------------Angel

Left is preferred lynch obviously and then the distance apart from Baezu is how willing I would be to lynch each. Angel is more of a 'well if I can't get any of my preferred lynches' option.

Also I think we should extend our boundaries to Xiao; hes town and his list is solid. Maybe even Amrun.

[Slandaar]

Baezu you forgot me?!

[Slandaar]

I have a strong suspicion that this game is multiscum. Ally listed three suspects, in a game which should have four or even five.

You have a strong suspicion based on Penguin only having 3 (main) suspects?

Even if this is incorrect, my sourread on Ghosty has increased. This is not a town Ally (penguin_alien). This is distinctly Ally's scumplay. In addition to the overall lack of her town self, there is the fact that she is misrepping my points on Grinny, Angel, and Orry. I explicitly said that Grinny and Angel were

weaker

reads on my

memory

of their meta which

I have not checked on to confirm

. Orry is not a meta read at all, and yet is lumped in with the others.

I think the opposite and is the main reason I think the slot is town.

I cannot back up my statement on this being Bazzy's scum play. However, I am certain of it.

This, however, is good.

[Slandaar]

I now demand you Rift to show me where this meta argument comes from;

Slandaar's unvote worries us. Titus is being a scumfuck and Slandaar is like one of MS's top tier tunnellers. What do you think?

Exactly. Whenever Slandaar takes a step back for no apparent reason it worries the hell out of me.

On a side note, what do you think about roflcopter?

To make such arguments you must have town meta on me where I tunnel one person from page 10 to infinity.

Or, if you could provide where I as scum 'took a step back' that might work.

[Slandaar]

Its 19p

13/3/3 seems plausible on numbers alone.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar

Rift
?

[Slandaar]

If downtown were scum he would have voted from that section.

PV is town btw.

[Slandaar]

This looks like one of those quote-highlight mishaps. I have no idea what you are asking.

I just wondered how my name got into a post completely irrelevant to everything else.

[Slandaar]

And your opinion on PV; Rift?

[Slandaar]

I mean elaborate.

[Slandaar]

His content improved dramatically and he's looking mostly caught up though there are a few things I think he's still shaky on. Seeing how that plays out may improve some other reads. He's posting in a way that reminds me strongly of the Amnesiac game we played together, where he came into an already long day 1, got mostly caught up, and basically rehabilitated a slot that I had been scumreading prior to him replacing in., He's not a replacement in this game, but he's been kinda prod-dodging up until the prior 24 hours or so and obviously wasn't caught up.

Well we achieved the same conclusion but for completely different reasons.

I thought you might have said what I think but meh.

[Slandaar]

He doesn't care about his appearance. PV has played enough to know how his reads would come over and thus he is town.

[Slandaar]

Rift, if you want a better view on my meta, I advise you to read the Pick your Poison game, it has just finished, and you can find a link to it on my wiki page.

In case you don't want to read it, maybe Slandaar could fill you in, he was also in it.

I think it's a better representation of my play compared to the newbie game.

Eh

I am fairly sure Stubbs is town, fairly being a bit of an understatement. Don't really see the need to say anything else.

[Slandaar]

That Oriole guy is obvtown

Just incase noone realised it yet.

[Slandaar]

It is a bad and a good habit to read everything then post the trouble is sometimes you forget what you were going to say at the end of reading everything and hence muiltipost!

Jemima: You are ignoring me?

[Slandaar]

Do I pass the obvtown admission check?

[Slandaar]

Talked to Syr, and he says you know why he can't answer this question right now. For your scum meta, his word is "tenements".

I knew the answer obviously, yes. It is completely backwards.

In Tenements where I just tried to lynch the vig before and after his claim as an sk, I took a step back?

Yeahhhh. This will need explaining.

[Slandaar]

Well you passed the test you are definitely a viable candidate for the role of obvtown admissions checker there is no doubting that, however, I just don't know about this being lower grade of obvtown stuff and so I feel there probably is a better candidate for this particular job and so with great regret sonic



You're Fired

[Slandaar]

I'm not following you. It wasn't about taking a step back being part of your scum game. It was that taking a step back wasn't what he knows of your town game.

Well he has no town meta that can be mentioned.

So if it was an event he hadn't seen, why is it associated to scum when he has scummeta to the contrary?

[Slandaar]

BRO is scum.

'Oh look I made a disaster' uh good job? there was already a Baezu wagon who was already clearly scum what was the point what has been achieved? He did not purposefully cause said 'disaster' I mean its just nonsense and said disaster did nothing useful he was just caught.

Current Townreads (in no particular order and some are stronger than others):
Amrun

roflcopter

Zoidberg

Oriole

Slandaar

ConfTown Brain Trust (also sometimes known as "the circle jerk" or "those *expletives* people")
Ghostly Penguin
BROseidon

AA9

He loves this scale? Makes sense (Read: No it does not)

Softclaim etc.

Broscum lynch value is much much higher than Baezu; Everyone get back on this wagon. Baezu can go tomorrow.

VOTE: BRO

In fact I have had enough

These 5
Me
Rofl
Bro
Ghost
Sonic

One is scum and 4 town of varying cop sanities with a qt and daychat.

Bro is the scum, when he is lynched the rest of us are conftown hence the value of the lynch.

Why isn't it Sonic? perhaps you debate this? He pmed the mod about the alignment of the as we knew it liar and mod told him scum; this makes him town alone. I have confirmed this myself. I very highly doubt he does this as scum.

Why did you claim Sland? Well scum already know about us so it doesn't make much difference except for the fact now the whole town does too.

Lynch BRO.

[Slandaar]

yes

It was not completely clear of the alignment of the 5th person he was known as the liar, Sonic PM'ed the mod to ask if the liar is scum, MOD said yes, I confirmed this, for Sonic to do that as scum is quite... well I can't see him doing it.

[Slandaar]

Obviously it is based on reads yes. Rofl is obvtown and Ghost Penguin is town based on penguin meta.

[Slandaar]

Can one of my games just have players be sane?

What happens if Bro flips town Slandaar?

He won't. I probably would default to ghost but its BRO and so its quite irrelevant.

Umm how OP is the town right now?

We have 5 cops, 2 players knowing each other, and my role, that's at least 7 confirmed town if Slandaar is right. That smells waay too easy.

I have looked at the posts and maybe I didn't explain it clearly I will do that in a second.

And MS pming the mod to ask him isn't much town cred when the first thing I said in the QT was bitching about being in a side-game of Dethy because I hate Dethy.

ScumSonic: Hm I am going to PM the mod to ask if my role is scum or not!!!!

Really?

He obviously pmed the mod because I got the exact same answer which was strange because the PM's didn't make it clear the Liar was scum.

------

OK

So the five of us are
Sland
Rofl
Sonic
Ghost
BRO

4 of us are cops, we do not know our sanity, each of us has one of the sanity's from (Insane, Sane, Paranoid, Naive) and there is only one of each sanity. Results are useless till we know who is who. Then the 5th person is the Liar who was confirmed to be scum.

I think that explains it clearly.

+ We have daychat qt.

[Slandaar]

Really Zoidberg?

[Slandaar]

"Let me say I PM'd the mod for towncred even though I know I'm scum."

Your WIFOM is bad and you should feel bad.

Yes thats it the WIFOM argument.

What is so WIFOM about it? you are trying to suggest Sonic is some mastermind scum who decided pming the mod to ask his own slots alignment is a towntell hence he would do it?

Ridiculous.

[Slandaar]

Ugh. There have been a lot of terrible arguments thrown about in this game so far.

[Slandaar]

Yep.

[Slandaar]

This sums up rift for me; metametametametametametameta. Lots of noise not much point to it though. You say someone is town because meta? doesn't mean anything to me. You say Y is scum due to meta? doesn't mean anything to me.

Plus the meta they 'used' on me was backwards so that doesn't help their cause. Which is still unexplained btw, If you two could finally explain this magical conclusion you came to because it still seems completely baseless to me.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar, would I be crazy to think that RA doesn't know a "pro-town" response here and is fishing to put the question off?

It was a very wishywashy response.

One thing that bothers me from what I've gathered so far is that it seems like Zoidberg hit exactly the right buttons for cop-mason paranoia to boil over when it did. Which makes me rethink my townish read on him.

i don't want to admit it but this is a pretty good point anti-bro sentiment had been building steam for a little while in the qt and was coming to a head. if scum have daytalk etc etc

The timing was actually quite amazing considering the heat in the qt and how it hadn't been there till very recently.

This could be confirmation bias but it's just one more thing that doesn't set right.

I am town. Supposing Stubbs is town, that's two town spots he's voted for. If Baezu flips town, that's two I will know about and a third train I suspect was also town. Then a town block with (what he knew at the time) with two cops.

Yeah, I'm going to be suspicious.

If this
If that

Whenever you use more than one if you know you have entered a place you shouldn't.

[Slandaar]

He's claiming to be a handwriting expert and handwriting can show a lot but I'm pretty sure there's no handwriting test for deception.

Titus, Sometimes you need to take things with a grain of salt this is one of those situations.

[Slandaar]

Titus you are being trolled by Sonic.

Baezu should claim.

[Slandaar]

Just in case I die n1 which is looking likely I think I will post my scumreads here for you all. (You should sheep them considering the time it took for half of you to vote Baezu who has been obvious for a long time)

Scum is;
AJ
Baezu
BRO
Rift
Elvis

If I am wrong on BRO I would suggest it is Ghost and Zoidberg but I think its very unlikely, I can't see Zoid scum unless BRO is town and I can't see BRO as town so there you go. I am not entirely sure who I would replace with Zoid anyways. I can't see 6 scum, I can't see multiball, 5 seems right to me. Maybe scum/sk but this is pointless speculation at this point in the game.

The only reason I even consider I am wrong there is that Zoid makes it look like he and someone else(ghost) have daychat and he jumped on BRO to incite inhouse fighting; AJ did the old hard bus, Baezu is scum for reasons explained previously, Rift is scum who has avoided the wagon actively pushing the terrible counterwagon on Stubbs near enough all day except near end to save BRO (BRO is more valuable by a long way - did Rift ever look at the Stubbs meta one can only wonder) BRO is scum due to reasons that again can be found in the thread, Elvis is scum because she tried to defend Baezu with the 'DONT LYNCH LURKERS ITS SCUMMY!!!' then tried to lynch Sonic (a lurker) who is town fyi.

I could explain them in depth but honestly, when Baezu flips scum that should be enough for you all to just mindlessly sheep my reads.

[Slandaar]

Deathy and Titus, dearies:

I am willing to vote on Zoidy, but a Bazzy lynch has more momentum at this moment.

Its like all my reads fit together so nicely.

has it been asked, and if so, do you have an answer?

Yes and Yes as has already been said in thread I am pretty sure.

[Slandaar]

Soooo Rift you like to talk to people I have noticed so let us talk.

Baezu who looked certain to be lynched just put in a fair amount of effort which honestly she would think as scum would be ultimately pointless.

Kind of contradicts her earlier posting of scum who can't be bothered and putting no effort in.

What do you think?

[Slandaar]

I am currently in thinking mode please hold.

[Slandaar]

Yes the content itself isn't good, but the idea behind it is that to post so much in such a situation contradicts her earlier mentality; it doesn't make sense to start posting lots at L-1 as scum when I am not even voting her for example; if she wanted to look town she had many opportunities earlier in the day to do so when the content had a point to it.

Kind of looks like town to me who is posting their reads and trying to be useful in death.

Which is hard for me to admit. I hate being wrong.

[Slandaar]

@Xiao, would you be ok with Zoidberg?

I figure with you me, TD, Slandaar, Stubbs, Baezu, Ghostly that's 7 with the momentum on our side, so AJ would have to vote with us on Zoidberg (or be outed as scum), then we'd just need one more.

And who could that one more possibly be.

Good Question.

Rift, Can you give a straight answer. Do you think Baezu is town or scum at present?

[Slandaar]

So basically, BRO must be scum, therefore Zoidberg cannot be. Do you have an independent read on Zoidberg?

This is also why I have trouble voting Zoidberg. I feel BRO and he cannot be buddies and BRO is the scum in the dethy.

The best lynch to me seems to be BRO, he will flip scum and everyone can celebrate... well except the scum but that doesn't matter.

The facts are that lynching the scum in the dethy;
Removes the link between scum and the dethy qt this is very useful in itself as they won't know who we targetted etc and we can work together in our qt to figure out results. By hiding them from scum this does a lot because scum will know the alignment of the targetted player and thus can take much more educated guesses as to which sanities we are (or just plain work them out) a lot quicker.

Then there is the fact while the scum is alive they will mess with results and make it harder for us to figure out who is what sanity, with the scum lynched today we can in fact work out sanities a lot quicker and easier.

Yes there is technically some risk of lynching town which can be avoided for a couple days who could be confirmed but honestly I am fairly certain the scum is BRO and lynching him is much better than lynching any other scum in the game.

You all need to realise if scum play it a certain way we will have to 50/50 lynch in the dethy at some point anyways (ignoring reads)

Or to put another way;
WAH WAH YOU MIGHT BE WRONG SLAND?!!!! Just have confidence! I am not.

And no I don't understand why people say math is a defence when the odds are not 1/5 because reads.

[Slandaar]

He

deliberately crumbed his role and dethy results.

Yes, he did. He crumbed them to me specifically. I didn't figure it out about the dethy specifically since I've never even heard of it until now (and it's dumb, you should be ashamed of yourself 4nxi3ty)

Its not the most fun thing to know the longest I can live is to D5.

Probably less fun for the scum who has a life expectancy of about 2 days though.

Back on topic though, Why don't you think he was manipulating you? 'I am gonna cause a disaster and then hide behind Rift!'

[Slandaar]

Who is defending him without reason?

[Slandaar]

That is a lot of times Amrun! Could you link me to all of them?!

@Slandaar, Amrun's right. He's the typical example of a Zoidberg defense without a reason. The other is AJ. He's scummy but I won't help turn the train rationale.

Amrun meanwhile has presented no evidence for his rationale that Bro and Zoidberg couldn't be scum together. He just says Bro is scum therefore Zoidberg cannot be. He has no independent read of Zoidberg which should register as fishy. He doesn't want to say Zoidberg is town for fear of being associated with that. Thus, this is a defense without a reason.

Eh, even if she didn't say it outright her logic aligns with mine on this matter, you should trust me on that and leave it.

[Slandaar]

And you and I, being self-assured about our own reads (not to mention stubborn about them) disagree about the nature of the flail.

Any argument about flail is a bad argument.

Why was he flailing in the first place if his goal was to cause a disaster in the thread by playing scummy? that is what you are suggesting happened, yes? or was the flail faked?

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar, I never sheep without a reason. It's not my style. I can see there are things I don't know but I'm not going to just suppose someone is scum and suppose someone else isn't. That makes no sense.

No I mean just trust that they are not both scum because there is literally no chance of it.

Zoid attacked BRO at the absolute opportune time to make the dethy boil over, why would he do that as scum/scum? it just wouldn't happen... getting his buddy BRO lynched would have been absolutely catastrophic for scum. Only way it could be scum/scum is if there is no daychat but honestly if Zoid is scum you should be assuming daychat due to the timing.

[Slandaar]

I don't understand why the bolded is in that sentence. Why do you think that was his goal? Because that is not what I'm suggesting happened and I don't really see how you got there from what I've posted this morning.

I don't think the flail was faked.

That is the impression I got from him.

To have breadcrumbed whatever he did he must have been thinking rationally to copy whatever he did in game X, hence it is quite deliberate play. I thought everyone realised that. I thought the town argument was he deliberately played scummy to cause the disaster to get reactions and info, instead you are saying he just is scum who on the fly tried to mimic his town meta.

Well that is good.

[Slandaar]

That explanation is actually quite reasonable. You can't go linking 2/3 games because a name will be in all three and I doubt many others would be. Showing one is a little pointless and even then its quite easy to guess depending on who is in the game.

I don't know about this AJ wagon. I can't really explain why I think she is scum and that I have recently begun to realise that tends to mean I am wrong and just not liking the way they phrase things...

Let us try this wagon;
VOTE: Eddie

[Slandaar]

Pointless but I don't find it to be scummy. Town like speculating about random things just as scum like to do it to look like they are contributing more than they are so its not really something I care for.

[Slandaar]

What nonsensical reads?

Framer is whatever I could see town speculating on it.

[Slandaar]

Nothing is going to happen

Vote Eddie with me.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, EddieFenix hasn't posted here in a week, although he's apparently been active elsewhere. How did he move ahead of elvis_knits as a lynch candidate from here:

@TD/Slandaar, since we like each other as town (I think), why don't we put together a list of people we are willing to lynch, look at the pros and cons and decide as a unit who we want to lynch?

Sure lets do it
Baezu----Rift-Elvis------Eddie-----------AJ-----------------------------------Angel

Left is preferred lynch obviously and then the distance apart from Baezu is how willing I would be to lynch each. Angel is more of a 'well if I can't get any of my preferred lynches' option.

--Penguin

He didn't. I just don't see an Elvis or for that matter Rift lynch happening, Eddie seemed like a good lynch which was also possible.

[Slandaar]

lol

Titus!

Your Amrun wagon might take off soon have faith!!!

[Slandaar]

@Tiphaine, Agreed. I think given the short time frame, the best manner might be arguing AJ is town, rather than Zoidberg being scum because that's a dead horse.

Uh, That is a completely different argument. Need to check what you have said about AJ in the past but no time right now. Someone else should though.

[Slandaar]

It is a completely different argument. Given the timeframe, Zoidberg or AJ will likely be the lynch. If the group likes AJ as town more than Zoidberg, Zoidberg will be lynched.

Well Amruns a possibility also, I could still see that lynch going through, I can feel the mood of the thread everyone is thinking 'lets pile on Amrun' it just takes one person to start the momentum though Titus! That could be you!

@Stubbs, why the naked vote?

Not this again.

[Slandaar]

Why does this only implicate GP?

Because I am very sure Rofl and Sonic are town.

Where were you trying to go with this? Were you reading my posts up till now?

You are either scum or a complete idiot. Best lynch is obviously outside the Dethy group and I have been incredibly consistent with that both in and out of the QT.

You have been consistent with that yes, I don't deny it, does it make you right? nope. What even is the point is saying you have been consistent? how is it relevant here?

Like, did half this game seriously fail basic math or do you all just not care that you are being fucking morons.

My Math says there is one scum in the Dethy, if I lynch you there are 0 scum in the Dethy, 0 scum is less than 1 scum therefore this is good for town.

This argument is incredibly short sited because EVERYONE IN THE QT IS GOING TO FUCKING DIE ANYWAYS. THAT’S HALF OF HOW WE’RE GOING TO WORK IT OUT, BECAUSE SCUM AREN’T GOING TO RISK LEAVING ALIVE 2 USEFUL COPS AND 2 OTHER “CONFIRMED” TOWNIES BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THE RESULTS WILL SORT THEMSELVES.

Lets say that the mod told you who was scum in the Dethy, are you telling me you shouldn't lynch them because it will be sorted out by the Dethy? No of course not.

So, we now have determined there is a line where it actually is better to lynch in the Dethy, I am very sure I know who the scum in the Dethy is, I am over the line of 'don't lynch scum in the Dethy' if the odds truly were 1/4 you would have an argument but... you don't

The odds are lower than 1/4 due to reads you always seem to ignore this fact.

This is the exact sort of fucking attitude that scum take advantage of. Townies need to treat the game probabilistically because there is intrinsically predominantly speculative/incomplete information. It’s like investing money.

I am not an investment Banker. I just want to lynch scum.

Same can be applied outside the Dethy group but better because you are starting at better odds.

Odds are a funny thing to use them accurately we need to know how many scum are in the outside group which we do not know so if for example there is only three scum which isn't impossible by any means it is 3/14 which amazingly is worse than the 1/4 odds I have of lynching inside the Dethy.

So you’re saying that town play shouldn’t be done deliberately? Play should always be deliberate regardless of alignment, just deliberate in different ways. It’s called not be a shitty player.

And what I did wasn’t “playing scummy,” it was trying to goad out reactions that could be parsed as either town or scum based on how players in the past responded to it. That’s very strongly town-motivated.

Oh Kay! You didn't play scummy BRO! so, how were you trying to Goad these reactions out again? remind me because I just don't understand it.

Summary
BRO: NO YOU CANT LYNCH ME 1/5 ODDS!!! 1/5 ODDS!!!! LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!
Sland: lol.

[Slandaar]

I wouldn't assume that. Syr says that in a prior 4nxiety game scum did have day talk in their QT.

This is actually a fair point I had forgotten that.

[Slandaar]

What nonsensical reads?

Slandaar, AJ has been using the argument, "so and so is town/scum because I have meta that says so" since her first post in this game.

Which, I suppose would be fine if she could continue that thought with, "where they acted in this way, and they flipped Town/Scum there."

That doesn't make them nonsensical that makes them unexplained. I find her explanation for not explaining them fully reasonable enough. I mean its terrible and why I dislike ALTs but when someone is on an Alt they will have meta and won't want to share incase people figure out who they are so it DOES make sense.

[Slandaar]

Your reasoning is terrible, any scum can say 'LOL, I'm on an alt' and justify any number of sins. That's even worse than 'because, meta'.

Aunt Jem is obviously an alt, I knew it from her first post it is that obvious. I obviously would use common sense/judgement when people use being an alt as a defense not just going to let for example You just claim you are on an alt so can't explain meta.

How has this site's meta gotten so crappy that we let off a power lurker who places her vote on a lurker when she called trying to lynch lurkers scummy in the most hypocritical way in a mafia game ever, stirred up shit and left

I think Elvis is scum for basically this exact reason, but I just can't see it happening today.

SHE CAN GIVE META READS BY CITING SPECIFIC BEHAVIOR. WHY ARE YOU FUCKING LETTING HER GET AWAY WITH THIS?!

I hate alts, its complicated, I will judge her on other things. I see what you are saying but there is in fact a very plausible explanation I just am not going to say it incase you are right so AJ has to say it herself.

[Slandaar]

I was siding with Zoid being town prior to the GG post and towncred post pretty sure hes scum now.

[Slandaar]

Rifty Drifty and Eddie are sour ones I agree but Grinny and Ammy? They will need some explaining Auntie Jemmy.

[Slandaar]

So, first off I pmed the mod to confirm we can't daytalk anymore and we can't

Secondly;
Considering its literally impossible for me to be scum with Zoidberg I am confirmed town near enough already and thus the order should be;

Ghost -> Sonic -> Rofl -> BRO -> Me.

Now...

Outside of #536, there aren't any particularly notable interactions between Zoidberg and Slandaar (I have #536 noted as an interaction that was weird mostly because I didn't see the need for Zoidberg to even single out Slandaar as "someone he can't read" and then later put him in the lynch pool)

OK so basically you are saying Sland wasn't interacting with his townreads much and then you are trying to outguess Zoidberg.

The first Slandaar post I have noted as a scum post is #210 - I really didn't see the logic behind the unvote here; nothing in this post pointed towards him changing his mind about Titus, and "relooking later" is a really weak excuse to unvote Titus here.

My main argument was X
Titus stumbled into an expanation for X
Sland unvotes as it was late and wanted to relook with the new understanding of how Titus felt RVS worked.

You are telling me I shouldn't unvote there? Why not?

After that, he later shows up around p18 or 19,

I love the wording here Muffin, you make it sound like I disappeared with some ulterior motive. I did exactly what I said, I came back the next day and relooked at things.

and votes Baezu out of the blue. At this point I thought OK, maybe the stuff with Titus a few pages back was part of the reason for this, but no he continues to argue with Titus (and pretty much only Titus) so I am assuming his read on Titus didn't change, and find the shift towards Baezu kind of weird.

I voted Baezu yes because I felt she was scum, I also argued with Titus because I had looked at things and wanted to investigate the new angle somewhat at which point I wasn't sure what to think of Titus.

Not only that but he just puts his vote on Baezu and leaves it there, no rallying for support, no elaboration on why he thinks Baezu is scummy, just a vote.

I am pretty sure (definitely) I made a case later showing why I voted her, I just like to vote without explaining sometimes for reactions and not like the reasoning for my vote doesn't exist if I don't post it.

This is the kind of reaction I look for, the kind of shallow one where you accuse me of voting for no reason as if that is scummy in itself as I clearly would have to explain it and thus as both alignments I already HAVE reasoning to explain it even if I havn't posted (which I did). Rallying for support came later so thats out the window also.

Granted, at this point in the game Baezu has only one real post and it was pretty fucking scummy,

Yeah, so I voted in a good place. What is your point again?

but that doesn't really explain the shift from Titus to Baezu here, and it certainly doesn't explain why he just left the vote there and did nothing with it.

I explained the shift very clearly in this thread already and have in this post. I like your argument that 'Sland started a Titus wagon then unvoted when it was gaining traction' Because if I were scum that seems very productive doesn't it? Why would I unvote if I were scum again? I must have missed this explanation.

The wagon which was started by me as you must realise got to L-1 and you suggest I did nothing with my vote?

I see.

VOTE: Muffin

[Slandaar]

I cannot be bothered responding to all that nonsense.

Muffin is scum the simple version;

Why would I unvote if I were scum again?

It's possible that you realised your argument for Titus being scummy was awful and retracted it before people began to realise this and become suspicious of you. Or it's possible that you simply wanted to get on Titus's good side.

In any case, I can't think of any protown reasons you'd unvote someone you clearly still had issues with as of #74.

Protown reason can be found below;

My main argument was X
Titus stumbled into an expanation for X
Sland unvotes as it was late and wanted to relook with the new understanding of how Titus felt RVS worked.

Amazing.

What did you think of Titus's early posting Muffin?

Why is it as scum I would decide my argument is bad/wrong and back off but not as town? Its just ridiculous. Can't think of one reason town would unvote? Of course you can't; Muffin is scum.

[Slandaar]

Once again, like I said in #2154, you still acted like you thought Titus was scum in #210, or at least that he hadn't satisfactorily addressed your suspicion of him. The unvote doesn't follow.

And like I have said about 5 times now I wanted to go and reread things with my new interpretation of Titus's understanding of RVS. It was late and so I didn't have the time at that current point so I unvoted as most of my case wasn't applicable and Titus did have a fair few votes. I was still somewhat suspicious as the understanding was ridiculous but I needed to relook at what Titus had been saying.

I think he copped a lot of flak for his thoughts on RVS (which were obvious)

Good, so explain them to me.

I dont think you realising your argument was bad/wrong is something you can't do as town, but I do think that if you were town, you would have talked about why you changed your mind when you unvoted, and I also think that if you were town, you wouldn't have simply unvoted and not pursued another scum read.

The reason was I needed to reread Titus because I had caught onto his interpretation of RVS but didn't have the time at that moment.

What does not make sense about that?

Why would I not unvote?

I am 100% sure you have not made a case on Baezu by page 30, when you voted for Baezu prior to page 20 and posted several times in between.

I don't see why that matters. I didn't post my reasoning for reactions and as we have already covered I obviously did have reasoning which I did post later. (mainly looking for a reaction Baezu but she didn't post so whatever then when she did she ignored me which was pretty terrible in itself)

How about you explain what you thought was scummy with Baezu's first post. I want to see.

You gave a couple dodgy reasons in #495, one of which was that Baezu was using "buzzwords" like "weird" (

which is kind of ironic given your #74 where you used that same buzzword to describe Titus's play

) but so far no case, and after that no mention of Baezu and why Baezu would be a good lynch, no rallying for the support of Baezu's lynch, no nothing. Just a vote, and no follow up.

I think the bolded part in the second quote is a particularly glaring contradiction, and actually quite funny.

X is acting weird vote X
X is scum for doing; this, this and this weird kind of encouragement.

There is quite a difference in context one is calling him weird and voting one is calling him scum and voting.

Can you also explain to me what kind of follow up can happen when Baezu doesn't post, I am intrigued.

[Slandaar]

I'm going to pretend you aren't really asking me to explain why Titus's thoughts on RVS were misconstrued, because Titus has already explained it several times herself and it's a moot issue now.

No its not moot, I want you to explain it.

And I would agree that there is quite a difference in the context of the post in which you used the term "weird" to describe Titus's play, and in the post that Baezu used weird to describe Jakarbus's play, but the point is that you apparently seem to think using a "buzzword" like "weird" instead of scummy is what scum do, and you did the same thing. Either you're wrong and your attack was weak and unjustified or you're guilty of it yourself.

[/quote]
I never called weird a buzzword. Its not.

I also want you to show what you feel is scummy about Baezus first post.

[Slandaar]

As for the whole RVS thing, I really don't know why you're forcing this issue, when it's already been explained. Titus said RVS votes have a reason; the reason being RVS. This is self-explanatory. People drop RVS votes because it's RVS. What exactly are you hoping to learn from my answer here?

Not really.

Titus made reasonless vote
Others made RVS reasonless votes

Titus finds the reasonless votes on Jabs suspicious because they are reasonless; but they were RVS and therefore RVS is the reason so why was Titus suggesting they are reasonless? and caring about them so much?

Also my bad; you didn't called "weird" a buzzword. Apologies. It doesn't really undermine the point.

It completely does please refer to the context.

[Slandaar]

And please Titus don't respond let Muffin dig himself a bigger hole

[Slandaar]

I don't have time right now but I will later to reply to muffins lovely well thought out post so for now...

Muffin;
Titus's version of RVS is that votes are completely random (KEY POINT). The reason the wagon votes were not RVS is because they were not random as the 3rd/4th etc were obviously deliberately placed there. Hence Titus's vote had a reason of RVS but the wagon votes didn't.

You missed the key point in your explanations but we will get to that later.

That is what you are trying to say in some roundabout kind of way?

[Slandaar]

And... I must have figured this out at some point. The question is where. Well its pretty obvious.

[Slandaar]

So, your argument is I figured out the correct interpretation and shouldn't have unvoted when there was a sizable wagon and I wasn't sure what to think about Titus until I had relooked at his arguments with this in mind?

Well, that clears things up nicely.

Want to know what a rabbit in headlights feels like Muffin? look at my post prior to my unvote.

[Slandaar]

Well I didn't.

I wanted to reread and decide what I thought about Titus and that was what I did as I have said over and over.

[Slandaar]

Yes those reads on those slots are the same. I assume you are actually asking me to elaborate on them and basically give a full list which I might do later today but I am planning to write a huge case explaining why you are scum Muffin!!! It Depends how long that takes to write up but ... Amrun is town because she thought too similarly to me on D1 to be scum.

[Slandaar]

OK so lets start from the beginning

Looking through Muffins argument...

The first Slandaar post I have noted as a scum post is #210 - I really didn't see the logic behind the unvote here;

Now, Muffin is trying to suggest he didn't understand why I unvoted here, let me show it.

My vote on oriole was RVS, thus not reasonless like I defined. Third and forth votes are not random and thus need a reason to be done.

Ugh

So, you just have literally no clue what RVS is, I will reread this tomorrow I need to relook at stuff; RVS does not mean pure random. 3rd and 4th are (probably) not random by definition of the word random but they don't mean the people making them want a lynch either, however, by making wagons you get more information from pressure and reactions than everyone voting purely at random because that accomplishes exactly nothing.

For example, what did your vote do? exactly; nothing. /lesson.

This is where I realised my reasoning was probably wrong, then 18 minutes later before I went offline for the night I unvoted due to the wagon size and momentum and being unsure what I thought of Titus at this point. I needed to relook at things.

Now heres the kicker Muffin suggests he understands what I realised in this post which was this;

Titus's version of RVS is that votes are completely random (KEY POINT). The reason the wagon votes were not RVS is because they were not random as the 3rd/4th etc were obviously deliberately placed there. Hence Titus's vote had a reason of RVS but the wagon votes didn't.

Yet cannot understand the significance of it and how if my arguments were mainly based upon the RVS stuff as shown in the spoiler I would unvote.

Spoiler:

Slandaar, my gut tells me that was not random.

VOTE: oriole

Random votes with no reason.

Yeah another vote without a reason....

If you are town and vote without reason and then others do, there is literally no reason to question it (you are town who did it so why wouldn't other town) also realise he is saying 'another vote' which means mine was included which he posted after with no reasoning. Why would he do that if he believes they should be explained?

Nah, Xx MLG_Stubbs_360NOVOTEZ xX already had a vote on me.

I'm suspicious of the Slandaar vote, though. Who puts three votes on someone in RVS?

- 小龍

Don't forget stubbs's fourth.

Weird kind of encouragement 'get those guys!' while not doing anything himself; where is his vote?

5 votes already

Yeah I realized Stubbs wasn't a fourth. Paranoia suggests Stubbs is lyncher and Slandaar is scum.

Why isn't Jabs scum again? why is he even thinking a lyncher is in the game? Why are we not just both scum? Doesn't make any sense to be assuming what he is.

I don't know if Jabs is scum or not yet. Given the urge to lynch him and the game hasn't really started, I'd go with town for now.

Who said anything about lynching him?

Stubbs was posting that he was voting Varsoon artificially inflating the count to those who weren't watching closely. Paranoia on you because you seem to really want Jabs lynched

lol

'if 7 more people came into the thread and voted Jabs without realising Stubbs was voting he could get lynched!!!' Never going to happen. Just playing the 'lets sound protown' card.

Again; Where did I say I wanted to lynch him?

Random votes are not votes with no reason. They are random in order to start the game. Reasonless votes are suspect, no matter how many are on the train.

Explain why you made a reasonless vote then;

Slandaar, my gut tells me that was not random.

VOTE: oriole

I like the way you are just making things up.

You over reacted for a mental note where even I said I was paranoid.

Well considering I voted you before that your 'argument' doesn't hold.

As we can see my arguments are now pretty much gone if my new understanding holds up but obviously I need to reread with this new interpretation. I then left and came back the next day 13 hours later and reread voting Baezu as Muffin and his analysis says:

After that, he later shows up around p18 or 19, and votes Baezu out of the blue. At this point I thought OK, maybe the stuff with Titus a few pages back was part of the reason for this, but no he continues to argue with Titus (and pretty much only Titus) so I am assuming his read on Titus didn't change, and find the shift towards Baezu kind of weird.

While I took a completely new angle on Titus because the actual logic was terrible so I wanted to see if Titus actually believed it or was making stuff up.

Not only that but he just puts his vote on Baezu and leaves it there, no rallying for support, no elaboration on why he thinks Baezu is scummy, just a vote. Granted, at this point in the game Baezu has only one real post and it was pretty fucking scummy, but that doesn't really explain the shift from Titus to Baezu here

The shift is explained clearly. And voting without reasoning has been explained I like to do it for reactions and see no reason to explain everything fully straight away. Want to see something truly amazing? I did the exact same thing when I voted Titus, hey look it looks like a playstyle trait, I love voting without reasoning and elaborating later to find the scumbags looking for shallow reasoning to jump on, scumbags like Muffinman.

----

Now why does this make Muffin Scum?

Because when I told him the reason for my unvote which he understands he should have been able to see why I unvoted which is clearly because my reasoning was wrong assuming that new interpretation held which I needed to check. Muffins argument therefore hinged on this not existing in my ISO but it does Yet he still persists with this 'oh that makes no sense' He did not click onto what it means because he is scum.

His reasoning how things make sense;

Yes, because they are not RVS votes. RVS votes have a reason (RVS). It ceases to be RVS when a wagon starts, and starts becoming reasonless votes (if they aren't explained).

My vote on oriole was RVS, thus not reasonless like I defined. Third and forth votes are not random and thus need a reason to be done.

The quote I responded to when I clearly backed off.

See some similarities? yeah. I even said 'so you just don't understand RVS' when I realised. Muffins new argument is I would act differently; why? why would I do anything differently?

I would vote someone else before I reread the thread after a big revelation? REALLY? no of course not, you resolve the issue before moving on the issue was Titus and so I relooked.

Muffin has not clicked when I showed why I unvoted he has persisted with 'you didn't explain it in your unvote post why you unvoted!!!' he expects town to post 'OK guys I am going to unvote here is a wall why I have decided to' and then I read the thread and the next day vote Titus again? lol its just nonsense. You can very clearly follow my line of reasoning when you see the point I realised what Titus's view on RVS is, Muffin did not relook at things when I showed him this he is therefore scum.

[Slandaar]

Nope, even after reading that entire wall I don't see how it makes sense. Like I see that that you explained why you didn't have an issue with the RVS thing, but I've been saying all along that I found #210 scummy because you still thought Titus was scummy in that post (or at least still had outstanding questions that suggested you thought this), and the unvote just seems strange regardless, because I think town-Slandaar is more likely to be doing something with his vote than simply unvoting.

Is that really the best reason you have for thinking I'm scum? That's actually laughable.

Like I said I didn't know what to think until I reread; yes I had quetions but... I needed to reread because I didn't know what to think.

I used my vote on Baezu after I reread which was the next day so, you are right I suppose, I did use my vote.

My reasoning is very solid as you know, thank you, if you were town you should have relooked to check my arguments and if the new interpretation would invalidate them thus explaining the unvote. Not reviewing new evidence stacks up with your arguments is scum.

---

I got an inno on Titus

[Slandaar]

Really Slandaar? You checked me?

Really.

[Slandaar]

I felt I needed to investigate someone who isn't going to be lynched today as that makes the investigation pointless but didn't want to use it on my top town reads for obvious reasons so I went with 'I think town but maybe...'

[Slandaar]

Muffin has vanished. I need to ensure I include this in my pbpa of him. (Muffin was clearly using very manipulative wording earlier to distort things to sound scummy which clearly are not)

Anyways, I need to read this thread I kinda skimmed will do that in a bit and then I will make my new improved Muffinscum case this one being more user friendly.

[Slandaar]

I think scum is;

AJ
Muffin
Eddie Replacement I forget the name
Rift

and Ghost but honestly based on yesterday and me being an idiot I am just going to leave this to resolve itself which it will in a day or 2.

[Slandaar]

So, first off I pmed the mod to confirm we can't daytalk anymore and we can't

[Slandaar]

Right. There's still plenty of time but you're hellbent on investigating one person already without even talking to your deathy. An innocent result tells us a lot, but it's not all about you. An innocent result says that either you or Bro is NOT a sane cop. There's plenty of other options. I will vote to lynch scum, which is Amrun.

The Ghost investigates Amrun plan is actually good because if they flip their result we have guaranteed caught scum one way or the other if they don't what harm did it do?

Plus Lynching Amrun is actually pretty bad just on the basis BRO investigated her if BRO is insane cop there is a cop inno on Amrun. This will sort itself out later and this is why my investigation was good it avoided this while also giving relevant results when I am sane/insane.

That doesn't even take into account Amrun is very very town making that lynch abysmal.

[Slandaar]

No that doesn't work.

Rofl you need to post your result.

[Slandaar]

Oh you have reappeared Muffin, I wondered where you went.

Explain one more time what you think is scummy about rereading the thread when you are unsure what to think as a big revelation just happened but you have no time so you unvote a wagon that had quite a bit of momentum until you reassess things as you don't know what you think of said wagon anymore.

You cannot possibly see how that is town? lol. You think town would go off galivanting elsewhere when there was a big question mark on the Titus wagon?

What about when someone is at L-1 and they claim a PR, how often do people unvote to reread and think about the claim? Similar situation -> Big revelation -> Reassess. You have never seen this from town? I do not believe you.

How is Muffin not dead?

[Slandaar]

Yeah, you're not the only one. I think the mods for all games I'm in were filing missing person reports because I hadn't posted in over 12 hours.

Well you did vanish for many many posts.

No. I've gone over this 69million times. It's getting a bit repetitive now.

I don't care I need the 69,000,001st time.

This isn't a matter of whether or not I could see it coming from town, but whether I think it's more likely to come from you as scum or you as town. The definition of "scummy" is the former.

Well earlier you said you could never see it coming from town. I then gave a very clear explanation and you still wanted to push your nonsense about ohh but only scum would unvote and not vote someone else!!!

I even just gave a good example proving you should have had knowledge that in fact you are wrong...

Similar situation -> Big revelation -> Reassess.

Contextually different. Is it OK to have sex? What about with a minor?

Amusing Metaphor Muffin! Completely irrelevant.

Explain the difference.

[Slandaar]

Well you need to.

In both cases the motivation for the unvote is to reassess and while you reassess you do not want your vote on the wagon. That is what happens when Pr's claim (we are talking D2/3) town relook at the players posting to see if the claim makes sense during this time an unvote is a very good idea.

That does not mean they unvoted Purely because the person claimed PR because there is every chance they will revote, they unvoted to reassess with the new information that is the true motivation behind it.

Just as I did.

So explain the difference.

[Slandaar]

The motivation is the exact same thing. The EXACT same thing. The L# doesn't really matter if you are not going to reasses the PR claim then your read shouldn't change and thus you don't unvote.

I have no idea how many votes he had but it was a few he could have been L-2/3 for all I know and considering I knew I wouldn't be around and the momentum of the wagon involved plus I didn't feel like checking the number of votes as it was late Unvoting is clearly what you should do every single time.

The motivation for it is very clearly the same though; I unvoted because I was unsure what to think without reassessing, same thing with PR claims, you unvote to reassess them.

Ran out of time for now...

[Slandaar]

Unfortunately time is short right now for this game however don't lynch Amrun.

I will be back tomorrow with top quality content for now though this is my preferred lynch order of every player in the game ... most wanted lynch comes first.

Muffin
Nat (Eddie)
Rift
AJ
Angel
Stubbs
PV
Oriole
Baezu
Amrun
Titus

I excluded the Dethy as I don't want to lynch any of them today. Titus role does seem to HAVE to be town and the fact TD/Xiao are not voting him pretty much confirms him as town I think.

-Amrun is just town, I don't see the arguments against her at all I find it near impossible to believe she could have been scum based on her thought process yesterday.
-Baezu is town I explained why yesterday when she was at L-1 her play made no sense if she were scum.
-Oriole is town I just knew from his first post (seriously)
-PV is town, do not listen to Muffinman or any of the other people suggesting this is a good lynch.
-Stubbs I was fairly sure is town but hes lurking so I am less sure than I was.
-Angel I have no idea, I don't think shes a terrible lynch but at the same time its basically lynching her because there is a fair chance she is scum due to POE and nothing else.
-AJ's posts just always read terrible to me I cannot explain it very well but the content is ... well its content.
-Rift is scum because all they do is use meta arguments and have no actual productivity; They have not once influenced me in any of my reads, they like to talk I tried this with them and they couldn't give a straight answer instead waffle waffle need to talk to other head!
-Nat is scum because PV slipped. lol.
-Muffin is scum because apart from the fact he is accusing me of making a vote without reason which I do ALL the time hence playstyle related, he suggests unvoting a wagon I was unsure about is scummy which as in fact the wagon was on Titus who is nearly guaranteed to be town this means Muffin is arguing it is scummy for me to unvote a wagon to reassess when the person in question is town. I just wanted to reassess with new information how is this scummy AT ALL? It Doesn't make too much sense does it? Muffin is scum.

I could go on especially about Muffin anyways I wrote way more than I intended. I forgot to add Dethy reads mainly because I just went through the list and just didn't find a stop point wasn't intending to write so much... I am gone now.

[Slandaar]

The Nat read relates to the argument that PV slipped is so terrible which completely sums up the slots contributions to the game they are all very weak and in the slip case just plain ridiculous its scum who is struggling to make accusations on town.

The rest should be in my ISO, Amrun's viewpoints too similar to mine yesterday the hammer makes complete sense to me because my read switched at exactly the same time.

[Slandaar]

I will post in a bit...

[Slandaar]

I can't find anything on your PV read in your ISO, except that you called him town for the same thing that I acknowledged looks town but isn't really enough to offset the rest of his play.

Well it is; it makes him town.

Your read on Rift is also unexplained. You talk about how he's using "meta" as an argument (specifically in regards to you not playing as aggressive as he's used to seeing you play as town) but I couldn't really find how this eventually led to you reading him as scum. Point me to what I missed.

Their posts are all just a bunch of noise. I asked them about Baezu; Reply: WAFFLE WAFFLE. Its just nonsense, just say you are going to talk to hydra buddy if that is what is going to happen not a bunch of waffle and even then all it was was META META which is very weak and doesn't address the actual issue.

Also, going to need you to be more specific on the Amrun read. At one point on D1 you mentioned having similar thoughts to Amrun on something, but you never really expanded on this and how this led to a town read on her.

OK Summary time:

Sland think Titus Scum
Amrun think Titus Scum
Sland think Baezu Scum
Amrun think Baezu Scum
Sland think BRO Scum
Amrun think BRO Scum
Sland think Zoid Town
Amrun think Zoid Town
Sland think Zoid give up and is Scum
Amrun think Zoid give up and is Scum (and hammered)

Was this a serious question Muffin? Were you actually asking me to expand on why I think Amrun is town? lol.

And I've yet to see you, or anyone outside of Ghostlin, attempt to address the points about Amrun (and I think Ghostlin was generalising and being too dismissive of the points).

OK?

So no, you haven't really explained any of those reads.

Maybe expand on each of them when you have time.

I hoppe this has enlightened you into who is not available for a Mislynch today.

[Slandaar]

You realize I threw away my whole argument on PV, right?

That is quite amazing. Thank you for your reply.

You make obviously terrible argument
You see public opinion is your argument is terrible
You decide it isn't a good idea to pursue said argument

What was your point? you still made the argument in the first place. It still was a terrible argument.

I even explained my thought process in-thread. In addition, I didn't change my vote to him or anything. To make judgment on either of our alignments is completely and fully bullshit, seriously. I can understand how one could find me scummy--I happen to have been setup day one by being chainsawed by known scum, in addition to replacing a slot who's best posts are unsubstantiated reads. But, please, utilize the actual arguments as opposed to semi-theorycraft that even the person who brought it up threw out.

I am using the actual arguments, actual arguments you yourself made.

I don't like the chainsaw thing, I will judge you on your arguments and what you say and this is what I have done, thank you.

[Slandaar]

I'm seeing people like AJ and Baezu not posting. BRO is V/LA until Monday so yeah that makes sense why he hasn't posted.

I am beginning to think either a) Amrun is scum and people are afraid to chainsaw or b) neither of the trains are scum and scum are happy and feel no need to contribute. I really don't think b but I post it to foreclose anything not certain.

Maybe Nat is scum and people are afraid to chainsaw.

[Slandaar]

I don't know what game you're playing

Death's Diner currently in Day 2.

I deliberately was avoiding giving reads and stuff because I didn't want to be compared to Eddie more than I already was.

Worrying about how they are perceived too much.

Yes, Chocolate Zombie is my claim.

Chocolate zombie is hilarious, but you need to elaborate now.

[Slandaar]

Lets be honest that is a scum claim from Nat.

Unless someone can explain to me how Nat using his ability on one of the Dethy is balanced?

He would get a guilty result or when hitting an actual cop he just confirm towned them making the scum in the Dethy even more screwed than they already were. Then he also gets the cop ability which he may or may not know the sanity of? I mean its broken if hes told the sanity I think but I don't know how you could ask the mod what would be given regarding that...

So we have another cop (1 shot) in the game? No I don't think so.

Now, a scum ability; that makes more sense with the balance as it is a counter to the Dethy for the scum somewhat it can remove a full cop (lets be honest 2 full cops is a lot who are near enough confirmed town along with 2 other Dethy members with already 2 Lovers who are just weak masons and Titus whos role is also confirmable (the true strength of his role))

And...

lets assume for a second that I am in fact a scum role thief-that I agreed that lynching me tomorrow would be the best play. If you think I'm scum, you're still getting my fucking lynch. At this point, I'm in no position to resist.
.

No lynching you tomorrow is not the best play, that would allow you to use your ability tonight on one of the cops making it infinitely harder to work out who is what in the Dethy (which makes the Dethy seem a lot more reasonable obviously balance wise hence Nat is scum)

VOTE: NAT

[Slandaar]

Look there are probably 4 scum still alive.

Nat is one of those scum. Stop getting distracted trying to find the others and lynch.

[Slandaar]

I'm thinking a better use would be to Vanillize a dethy player. If you receive a cop-ability, they are confirmed town. If not, we lynch them.
At the same time, if town, they should still get a result on the night they are eaten, since you didn't say that you also RB your target.
This makes your ability a 1-shot cop that, if you choose wrong, you at least confirm a town player and keep the cop powers they used to have.

I don't believe it!

PV and Slandaar actually thinking similar things.

That is clearly the best action IF nat is town but hes not as clearly what is described here is ridiculously powerful scum would have to have insane powers to counter the number of just plain confirmed town in the game. Like when the Dethy gets to a 50/50 between scum and one town which is the absolute best the scum can achieve Nat uses his power and hey presto! 4 confirmed town and a free scumlynch.

Now as scum, its the counter to the Dethy so no GF etc this ability clearly works as a countermeasure.

It is so clearly a scum role its unbelievable that Nat isn't already lynched.

[Slandaar]

And NO we are not lynching Sonic thank you for your nice wall thought Rift.

[Slandaar]

PV: I don't think either is wrong.

Titus: Don't really care, I can speculate for example maybe they wanted to wait to try and hit the sane/insane cop... but its just that pointless speculation.

[Slandaar]

I wake up I see this thread isn't locked and all I think is; why?

Then I read the nonsense and this is how I feel after reading it: Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Slandaar]

@GP, However, if Natirasha is town we sacrifice him to solve the deathy. That would get us a lot of information down the line. The scum would have no way of resisting us solving the deathy because they cannot resist a vengekill. That has always been the idea. If we solve the deathy, we uncover the copscum, discover a hell of a lot of notes and are perfectly positioned for the future.

If the deathy has resolved, killing Natirasha works and he just eliminates a scum.

If Natirasha is scum, he hardly has the information to steal a cop brain. We lynch Natirasha and we get a 1 v 1 trade which hurts scum in the long run.

No matter what happens in this plan, the town gets vital information.

I know Ghostlin replied to most of these things but honestly Titus there is a huge flaw in your logic; Even if a town vengeful is lynched, it does not even close to guarantee they kill scum so all this 'well its a 1 for 1 trade' is just nonsense. And if they are scum vengeful well it is a 1 for 1 trade as you can guarantee scum vengeful kills town.

I really do not see what your argument is; Nat takes your ability vengeful and then if Nat is scum he gets to kill a townie when hes lynched? Uh Is this a good idea in your opinion? Instead of lynching him today we lynch him tomorrow and lose an extra town? Why would I want to do that? How IF he were town would he confirm his alignment by using his ability on you?

[Slandaar]

If the group decides Natirasha is too dangerous to live, I will be frustrated but comply as this does have minor risks. I just think there is no good play for scums right now.

IF Nat were town scum MUST have a ton of power themselves how can you know if they do or not not have a good play in such a situation when their power MUST for balance reasons be very high?

[Slandaar]

Natscum is voting Amrun so probably shouldn't lynch her.

Think of Nat's ability and what it does. Now think about the fact we are in a large game with only 1 nk on n1. Coincidence? It just makes too much sense as a scumrole. It IS a scumrole.

[Slandaar]

Stop unvoting him then!

We need to lynch Nat not Amrun who has the worst wagon composition imaginable; Rift, AJ, Muffin, Nat all on one wagon...

[Slandaar]

I mean it makes so much sense I don't understand why the day drags on.

The lovers make sense in that context also, you build the game around the Dethy because that is a big part of it, you give scum that ability to mess with the Dethy so you can't really use a vig or sk so you put in lovers so that the game doesn't go forever with only one kill and then you think about this and you go 'yeah that clearly makes sense'

Instead half the people in this game think Town has a completely broken power to not only have one scum basically given to them via the Dethy but also has a way to ensure none of the town Dethy can ever be lynched therefore making all 4 of said dethy members confirmed town. Along with 2 lovers who were confirmed town if they claimed and a confirmable town in Titus's role.

I feel like people do not understand how balance works. Town cannot have SEVEN confirmed town in the game. Scum do need to be able to mislynch somewhere... and that is not even counting Nat's role who in said situation is town also...

lol

You literally only need 2 obvtown and with scums 1 kill a night thats an auto town-win. Nice balance.

lynch Nat now.

[Slandaar]

Romeo and Juliet need to stop clowning around and vote Nat.

[Slandaar]

I also mentioned the part about saving a player who would be an obvious scum target from having their role vanish.

How does their role vanish if Nat is town?

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, lovers are prone to die and rarely get D1 confirmed. My role usually doesn't get confirmed without deaths. The scum usually shoot the deathy. I imagine we have quite a few scum in this. Balance applies to usual occurrences not actual occurrences.

Ohkay.

So, remember how on D1 TD was shouting how town you were after using your bomb? how didn't that confirm you exactly without a death? If you claimed and he claimed what you did you were confirmed.

I don't really see why you try to argue such nonsense it is clearly wrong.

Scum usually shoot the Dethy? uh in my experience they have never chosen to shoot the Dethy so nice argument?

Usual occurances? So, show me a game with a Dethy where scum shot Dethy member n1 please or where are you basing these usual occurances on?

My gut tells me that you or gp are the scums in the deathy but I am open to ms or rofl.

Well I am town obviously, Zoid doesn't make the Bro case at the time he did if I were scum, I was the trigger because I as town posted I thought BRO was scum and he thought he could get Bro lynched with that. If I were scum he wouldn't need me to say that in the first place.

[Slandaar]

Usual Occurance there is more than one kill a night in a large game; There isn't here. Lovers + Titus role obviously are there to mitigate this a fair bit. But why not just a vig?

NAT IS SCUM AND SCUM STEALING VIG ABILITY WOULD BE SO POWERFUL IT COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE PUT INTO A GAME.

I mean it is just so obvious.

Why didn't scum kill a cop n1? Because they had Nat's ability and wanted to steal insane/sane while leaving as many cops alive as possible for the scum to hide with. This isn't exactly complicated, its very simple, the setup alone dictates Nat is scum and that isn't even considering his play which was all scummy too...

Yes I would have stolen and killed in the Dethy n1, but scum don't always do what you think they should because they are not you, they think differently, they have more information they killed 2 lovers who actually that was a good kill so assuming they had an idea what they were doing... that makes a ton of sense.

Kill lovers/mason n1 and then n2 with more info try to hit the sane/insane cop.

No more WIFOM arguments on this issue will be tolerated. Nat is scum. Lynch.

[Slandaar]

Well this is a turn of events

Titus is scum.

[Slandaar]

Scum killing a cop n1 makes total sense. If that's not the usual play of scum, then to any situation on this site.

Yes it does make sense, but it didn't happen here so FACTS ARE 100% of my experience is scum DID NOT kill a cop n1.

Why are you arguing differently? your experience differs somehow?

Killing a deathy gives scum more ability to hide as it would be harder to figure out the dead guy's alignment as he'd have no investigation to share at all.

Completely wrong.

Bonus if you get one of the sane guys.

Yes, so how is it harder to figure out this guys alignment if you know they would flip their sanity? You know their alignment straight up there is no figuring out.

Frankly, I was surprised someone outside the deathy was shot.

Of course you were.

Even if you wind up having the goon caught faster

Thank you for this information the town greatly appreciates it.

it's still a better move to cause confusion and prevent people from trusting the cops long term. It's a no brainer to me.

Yes, but the scum didn't do that and they have all the information about their roles which you if you were town wouldn't hence its not a no brainer they shot the lovers, they killed 2 town with one shot, thats pretty good, if you are not going to shoot a cop that is kinda a good alternative maybe even better in the situation.

Now the question is who figured out they were lovers/masons. Shooting them and them flipping VT, yes thats bad choice, but thats not wht happened which you conveniently ignore repeatedly.

@elvis, Sorry but that's deliberate. I would rather have two confirmed town than one. If one dies, the other will be near conf-town. Note: This is not masons.

That is just amazing. All I have to say on it, Amazing.

The scum also somehow managed to not get killed when your ability should kill them if they target TD so they shot Xiao? I mean they KNEW what they were doing noone makes that kill unless they knew.

Thanks for playing.

Compromise wagon is go

VOTE: TITUS

tl;dr; Titus slipped the Dethy scum is a goon. Titus clearly made the kill on Xiao. Titus argues stuff that makes no sense.

[Slandaar]

Titus: Scum wouldn't care about protecting the Dethy scum cos hes a goon.

Rift/Rofl: Eh Na Titus is town.

lol

[Slandaar]

Yeah, no, I'm not fucking with the dethy unless oriole, rofl, Rift and Titus all agree.

How about HELL NO!

Hey.

Hey oriole.

If you think he's scum, there is a way to get a legit investigation on metal sonic tonight.

I am fine with Nati's plan as well. I'm not wedded to an idea because it is mine.

So, I was going to post a long wall, I concede it wasn't a slip but Nat and Titus are both scum as shown very clearly in this post.

VOTE: Nat

I had for a brief moment read Titus as knowing Nat is town but in fact they are just buddies; Titus was not fine with the Dethy investigation now magically is when Nat lynch might not happen. Nat changed his tune in similar fashion.

[Slandaar]

I suppose I will answer Oriole; Titus's role can be scum because WIFOM. Just like when there is a gf with no cop. The Vengeful part clearly holds utility for scum it just implies to them a vig which tells everyone why Nat didn't use his ability n1.

[Slandaar]

Your role isn't in the game for WIFOM it has town utility clearly as I have said many times and you even brought that utility up yourself in quite... suspicious circumstances. The idea to investigate dethy to confirm their alignment I have clearly said many times is very useful for town in fact I expect I was the first. That utility, however, is too strong hence it cannot be town here.

It could be town in a complete different setup.

Good Try though.

[Slandaar]

I should have checked with the mod about sanities flipping that was my mistake, however, whoever of Ghost/Penguin asked that question, what did you ask?

This changes things completely and it means investigating randomly is terrible literally terrible.

Now, I got a guilty last night. One of Titus and X is scum due to the fact this can sort itself out I will not be outing X today - anyways Titus is the scum pretty sure. I will post my result in the qt tonight (and not miss the deadline!)

Also, Bro, you need to explain why rofl's result was an innocent as this is important and I won't just be taking your word for it.

[Slandaar]

So, we have 4 claimed in the Dethy inc 1 scum
Oriole is claimed
Rift is claimed
Titus is claimed

7/13 claimed massclaim is a go; Lots of PR's claimed already so no arguments about protecting PR will be tolerated.

The order is:

1. MUFFINMAN
2. MAC
3. STUBBS
4. PEREGRINEV
5. BAEZU
6. AMRUN

Muffin you're up.

[Slandaar]

Why are you refusing to cooperate Muffinman?

[Slandaar]

I see. That is a very diplomatic stance to take.

Well lets run down the benefits;
Gives us the ability to make good assumptions about where the scum are; whether in the PR claims or in the VT claims.
Forces the scum to pick their claim now.
It allows us to consider the setup in full this is important regarding Titus.
It allows me to see the claim of a certain individual.

Benefits of not claiming
Muffin this is where you come in.

[Slandaar]

Necessary means nothing, beneficial is what matters and it is therefore we massclaim.

Massclaims provide information, they make the town more informed in a game where the basis is informed minority vs uninformed majority thus proving being informed is power meaning massclaim is always good for town. We know then that massclaim is good for town so it is about picking the time to massclaim not if you should.

Today is the day.

You will be claiming.

[Slandaar]

That is the most ridiculous nightkill I have ever seen.

VOTE: BRO

[Slandaar]

And... I had my cop ability stolen last night

I have inno titus guilty mac and last night ability was stolen so I didn't get result.

[Slandaar]

Come on. Really, Bro's been practically clear for awhile. Slandaar spent a hell of a lot of time derailing any thought that vanillaizer was a town role and then MS gets Vanillaized.

Yeah how could I know town AND scum had the ability?! I shoulda put more thought into my setup spec, but wait a second, were you not arguing Nat was town because scum would do X if they could vannillaize?

Strange.

They would not have stolen MS's ability unless he was sane or insane. Therefore, I like Stubbs as scum and Ghostly Penguin as sane.

Kay.

Amrun is also likely scum.

No, probably not.

[Slandaar]

GP - Town (misguided on Amrun)
Rofl - Town with innocent on Day 1
Bro - Paranoid (only one with a guilty)
MS - Modkilled town
Slandaar - Scum

Where did rofl say he got an inno? You are taking BRO's word on it?

I see how it is.

You know when I flip town you die so may aswell all in eh?

[Slandaar]

The correction is: Rofl didn't give a result. Why are you taking BROscums word on this Titusscum?

Rofl never gave a result. He got a guilty and is paranoid but whatever, If I were scum I never would have put myself in this position today, Kill BRO over Ghost and steal Ghosts ability. Which they could have done but noone other than scum and I know that so meh.

Even if you want to argue scum can't steal abilities its still a better situation to go 1v1 with ghost over bro its just common sense but I have been setup pretty hard.

I am insane rofl paranoid BRO scum ghost/sonic sane/naive can never know which.

[Slandaar]

Yes, Yes, explain to me again how you suggesting rofl got an inno isn't wifom?

[Slandaar]

What town-motivation would there be to him trying to conceal his result if he got a guilty?

Completely depends on the target,

Which, we don't know.

if scum have the ability to vanillarise multiple nights, why didn't it happen N1?

Ask BRO I am sure he can answer this.

But it is possible they targetted TD N1 to see what Titus gave him; its also possible its x-shot etc.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, riddle me this... why would I attach a bomb onto Tiphane if I was scum? I was also arguing that scum cannot steal abilities twice. It would be too OP.

Well you (the scum) have the ability to take it back via stealing so why not when it helps to derail your wagon?

[Slandaar]

Anyways BRO is confscum soon, fairly sure Titus is also scum but Titus/Mac one is guaranteed to be and then Muffin is a scumbag too.

probably another one... but I dunno I forget everyone else in the game they don't post.

[Slandaar]

OK generic answer: its possible his ability was stolen and was reaction testing.

So, now then BRO, explain this wifom stuff again?

[Slandaar]

Your post is very pretty I congratulate you on your presentation.

I can't really be bothered arguing with you its inherently pointless but good job at suggesting I as scum would decided to just come into today purely to try and lynch townyou on wifom, just nonsense honestly, its clearly strictly better to 1v1 without a plan which is 100% based on the use of wifom. Insults my intelligence but then you do need to argue it from your POV ... I respect that.

[Slandaar]

I like the idea of extending the day before we lynch BRO!

Hold off on massclaiming.

I need to check something with the mod.

Massclaiming right now is what needs to happen holding off seems terribly scum motivated.

We didn't mass claim.

Obviously, please ensure you interpret the tense of the post correctly.

I know, but Slandaar was asking for it.

Yes Good response ensure Rift knows I want massclaim!

We're probably not going there today. That was brought up on the much-abbreviated day 3.

This is a scumpost pure and simple.

Hold off on massclaiming.

I need to check something with the mod.

This post is strange

A little, but its OK.

Okay here goes.

I'm also a Chocolate zombie. I didn't believe Nati's claim, because I thought 2 town Chocolate zombies would be overpowered in this setup.

I ate Slandaar's brain last night. He claimed to have had an innocent and a guilty result. So either he was lying or he was going to die.

Slandaar was a rolecop. Which means he was lying and is the dethy's scum.


VOTE: Slandaar

Nice scumclaim Stubbs clearly there isn't 2 town chocolate zombies.

I know I am the town MVP but come on this is getting a bit silly now the lengths you scum will go to to get rid of me.

I like Slandaar as the deathy scum. However, we should cover our bases in the RARE event that Slandaar is not scum. This should be done before the massclaim as massclaim gives Slandaar the convinent out of checking the most guilty player and say "Whoops my reads were obviously wrong".

Stubbs''s Post is just awkward. Why didn't you CC nati during all that time Nati was the focus? Why didn't you say it's possible there is a town chocolate zombie AND I am the town chocolate zombie? Your claim comes after the fact. Why?

Also, why wouldn't you take my ability as you are a prime candidate for a mislynch?

Instead, you take Slandaar's ability to probably save the rolecop for the scums in case the deathy tells you to go to hell? I Do Not Like This.

I like this post very much! I agree, lets lynch Stubbs!

VOTE: Stubbs

[Slandaar]

i can see some reasons that makes some sense given some of the things stubbs said d2 (asking for nati's win con, talking about how nati's claim doesn't make sense given the rest of town power) but i want to see stubbs address titus's questions.

I like Slandaar as the deathy scum. However, we should cover our bases in the RARE event that Slandaar is not scum.

in the "rare event that slandaar is not scum", stubbs and BRO are scum. i sincerely fucking doubt they'd out another scum just to get rid of slandaar when he was already likely to be lynched.

slandaar is scum.

You are in for a surprise... or not.

Yeah, Slandaar is scum.

I still want this day to go on for a bit so we can talk about who else is scum.

I think mass claim should wait until tomorrow though. Does anyone disagree with that?

Yes I do! Massclaim now is what must happen!

Mass claim tomorrow sounds good.

SCUMPOST

I like Slandaar as the deathy scum. However, we should cover our bases in the RARE event that Slandaar is not scum. This should be done before the massclaim as massclaim gives Slandaar the convinent out of checking the most guilty player and say "Whoops my reads were obviously wrong".

Stubbs''s Post is just awkward. Why didn't you CC nati during all that time Nati was the focus? Why didn't you say it's possible there is a town chocolate zombie AND I am the town chocolate zombie? Your claim comes after the fact. Why?

Also, why wouldn't you take my ability as you are a prime candidate for a mislynch?

Instead, you take Slandaar's ability to probably save the rolecop for the scums in case the deathy tells you to go to hell? I Do Not Like This.

Agreed. And now it seems even worse that you held on to that piece of information until now. If you had cc'ed, then it may have been believable, but now?

And why didn't you out the possibility that there was such a role as chocolate zombie when most of the votes on Nati were due to the fact that we did not believe that role existed for town?

I could believe that you are a chocolate zombie as well, but I do not believe that you're aligned with town.

VOTE: Stubbs

Fantastic post, Stubbs lynch is a go!

I like Slandaar as the deathy scum. However, we should cover our bases in the RARE event that Slandaar is not scum. This should be done before the massclaim as massclaim gives Slandaar the convinent out of checking the most guilty player and say "Whoops my reads were obviously wrong".

Stubbs''s Post is just awkward. Why didn't you CC nati during all that time Nati was the focus? Why didn't you say it's possible there is a town chocolate zombie AND I am the town chocolate zombie? Your claim comes after the fact. Why?

Also, why wouldn't you take my ability as you are a prime candidate for a mislynch?

Instead, you take Slandaar's ability to probably save the rolecop for the scums in case the deathy tells you to go to hell? I Do Not Like This.

Agreed. And now it seems even worse that you held on to that piece of information until now. If you had cc'ed, then it may have been believable, but now?

And why didn't you out the possibility that there was such a role as chocolate zombie when most of the votes on Nati were due to the fact that we did not believe that role existed for town?

I could believe that you are a chocolate zombie as well, but I do not believe that you're aligned with town.

VOTE: Stubbs

It sure looks like you are claiming scum here. This is a logic fail of epic proportions.

If it was scum's goal to salvage the rolecop abillity before Slandaar was lynched...WHY WOULD EITHER SLANDAAR OR STUBBS ANNOUNCE IT IN THE GAME THREAD??

Please stop claiming scum Rift it makes the game too easy

I like Slandaar as the deathy scum. However, we should cover our bases in the RARE event that Slandaar is not scum. This should be done before the massclaim as massclaim gives Slandaar the convinent out of checking the most guilty player and say "Whoops my reads were obviously wrong".

Stubbs''s Post is just awkward. Why didn't you CC nati during all that time Nati was the focus? Why didn't you say it's possible there is a town chocolate zombie AND I am the town chocolate zombie? Your claim comes after the fact. Why?

Also, why wouldn't you take my ability as you are a prime candidate for a mislynch?

Instead, you take Slandaar's ability to probably save the rolecop for the scums in case the deathy tells you to go to hell? I Do Not Like This.

Agreed. And now it seems even worse that you held on to that piece of information until now. If you had cc'ed, then it may have been believable, but now?

And why didn't you out the possibility that there was such a role as chocolate zombie when most of the votes on Nati were due to the fact that we did not believe that role existed for town?

I could believe that you are a chocolate zombie as well, but I do not believe that you're aligned with town.

VOTE: Stubbs

It sure looks like you are claiming scum here. This is a logic fail of epic proportions.

If it was scum's goal to salvage the rolecop abillity before Slandaar was lynched...WHY WOULD EITHER SLANDAAR OR STUBBS ANNOUNCE IT IN THE GAME THREAD??

There are not enough l's and o's to indicate my response to this post.

This post is laughably bad, how is BRO not dead yet?

If scum were conserving their rolecop, why would they announce IN THREAD "hey, rolecop?" Towncred?

Seems like a pretty shitty way to go about it.

Uh Stubbs is lying. Scums goal isn't to survive any longer as they knew they lost when they saw I am town so they set a new goal; to lynch me. Its slightly embarassing but I think you may achieve your goal!

[Slandaar]

Why are you not voting me Muffinscum scared of the repercussions?

[Slandaar]

Also why would you ignore my super amazing content?! Even If you truly believe I am scum this is valuable information for you to analyse as its interactions with other players!

Strange.

I am just a poor innocent townie getting stitched up by these brutish scumbags I ask for all townies to stand up and say no more! no more will we listen to the scumbags that are BRO and Stubbs! Let us lynch them!

[Slandaar]

I don't want to be put at L-1 as that would surely be bad for town what I want is to lynch scumbag BRO or scumbag Stubbs.

[Slandaar]

But the question must be asked why are you not voting me? is it because you are worried when I flip town you will look like a scumbag?

[Slandaar]

Town
2 Lovers
4 cops where only 1 can be lynched if played correctly.
2 actual cops
2 rolestealers who can actually confirm alignment of Dethy members...
1 Vig
1 Venegeful Bomb thing

Thats 12 PR, all confirmable.

All town? Really? Who is trying to suggest this?
(Stubbs is scum - so is Titus but Stubbs is the one counterclaiming me in effect and so hes guaranteed)

[Slandaar]

I shall remind everyone of the very well respected AJ's posts:

I see the claims. Slandy has become confirmed town.

I am confirmed town, this means I cannot be scum, impossible.

BRO is scum, Stubbs is scum, Titus is scum, Muffin is scum.

Lots of scums we need to start lynching them today!

[Slandaar]

Also Stubbs isn't a 1shot which is even more broken than Nats ability as he could go through every member of the Dethy one by one confirming each's alignment. Clearly that isn't town.

These scums. Its plain ridiculous the effort they have gone to try and lynch me. Maybe they just win if all the town Dethy members are dead and the scum is still alive... explains the effort they have put into this nonsense and why they are going for broke with it.

[Slandaar]

can we not lynch or modkill anyone until i am caught up, thank you.

Don't worry Mac I shall wait for you before I lynch one of these scumsies!

[Slandaar]

That is ridiculous Stubbs is obviously scum but if you believe his claim you should be voting me.

[Slandaar]

Noone said anything about lynching or modkilling.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, how do you know Stubbs is not a one shot vanillaizer?

Someone targetted Sonic last night.

This screams setup to save the rolecop. Put Slandaar and Stubbs on opposite sides by having Stubbs claim.

Kay, so vote Stubbs then?

We have at least in theory Bro v Slandaar and Bro v Stubbs.

Lets resolve BRO v Stubbs today, please remove your vote from me.

There is no rolecop in a dethy according to the wiki. So how could Stubbs steal a rolecop sbility?

Yeah thats it! proof that Stubbs is scum!

Slandaar, if you are town, why not reveal your guilty? It would reveal a player who must be opposite me if we are wrong and we can lynch them after you.

I already did.

[Slandaar]

We're not lynching Stubbs today. Slandaar is obvscum being obvious.

Serial Killer Rifty please be more subtle.

[Slandaar]

BRO is licking his lips at a nice juicy mislynch and just cannot wait any longer but needs permission to vote hence his previous post.

[Slandaar]

This could actually be proof there is another (scum?) Chocolate Zombie. Thanks.

Obviously there is, you, you are a scum Chocolate Zombie.

Not like this isn't completely obvious.

[Slandaar]

look at Mac go! nomomnom mislynch don't vote wait i changed my mind!

[Slandaar]

I am rather confused myself.

Baezu can you vote me a second I need to test something.

[Slandaar]

Stop being such a scumbag Rift I am at like L-5 or something, pretending to be protown is so transparent.

[Slandaar]

stubbs,

who do you think is scum? (outside of slandaar)

PV/Baezu?

Good Question but let us direct it at the correct people!

PV/Baezu are you scum?

[Slandaar]

Just to make it clear: The actual role I got was Namecop. After some explanation I learned that it was in fact a rolecop.

I am a cop of questionable sanity but thank you for letting the town know scum has a namecop.

[Slandaar]

Is there some reason that Amrun has fallen off the radar as a scum candidate?

Look Rift its obvious you are not town but please make it less obvious and stop pushing mislynches. Honestly.

could someone tell me what titus' exact role is?

Mafia vengeful bomb giver.

Beazu, I kinda expected you to have something in response to my post [post]3272]/post].

Thought Titus might, also.

Chances on Titus/Baezu being scum?

High/Low

page 78.

amrun is probably my top scumread behind the obvious slandaar. < her flat out refusal to vote zoidberg is a huge point on favour, plus her suspicions of bro. how you guys didn'tlynch her d2 is beyond me but then again, i am yet to reach that stage.

You are such a scumbag Mac.

RA, you are right about my assumptions. I volunteered and said don't fuck with the deathy. So Stubbs instead fucks with the deathy. No. Stubbs wants eyes and ears in that cop chat after Slandaar is lynched. Why would Slandaar be voting for a massclaim if the scums have a name cop?

Y... Yeah!

I am town thats why! Let us unite against the scums Titus!

Given my role, I'm also a little paranoid that yours isn't town but I'm not sure. I think you shooting Amrun would reveal a lot though.

I haven't put my full name together in one post but it can be deduced if you know what you're looking for. If Stubbs is really town, he wouldn't mind checking me and having one shot (no jokes) to get it right. If he does we can be near certain, but not totally certain he's town.

Stubbs is scum be useful Titus!

RA, you are right about my assumptions. I volunteered and said don't fuck with the deathy. So Stubbs instead fucks with the deathy. No. Stubbs wants eyes and ears in that cop chat after Slandaar is lynched. Why would Slandaar be voting for a massclaim if the scums have a name cop?

The scum already have all the information currently in the Dethy room.

After that it will only be me.

Unless Stubbs gained neighbor status with his steal, in which case it will be us.

Yeah them scums got told by BRO last night about what I had been saying

With 19 people does 4 or 5 total scum make more sense?

I'm trying to work out scum-team combinations that look sense to poly-ISO together when I get a chance.

Please consult your PM if you actually want an answer.

Also I'm starting to get paranoid about Titus :/

Yeah me too.

[Slandaar]

I have more to say especially in regards to muffinman but unfortunately time has become an issue! Just remember, whenever you feel lost, confused or are unsure what is going on I am here to guide you!

[Slandaar]

Mac please stop asking questions that you could easily find the answers to it is really annoying.

[Slandaar]

In fact I even told you Titus is a mafia vengeful bomb giver, read the thread scumbag.

[Slandaar]

Lynch all liars!

VOTE: Mac

[Slandaar]

You don't read Muffins posts it seems though, probably because the two of you are buddies.

[Slandaar]

Oh Mac pretending you don't read my posts when you clearly do!

[Slandaar]

Yeah me too, then I shall begin case making to ensure BRO is lynched today!

[Slandaar]

VOTE: RIFT ADRIFT

Posting elsewhere on the site but not here = scum or maybe SK.

Either way guaranteed nontown lynch! lets do this fellow townies! lynch Rift Adrift!

[Slandaar]

Just to make it clear: The actual role I got was Namecop. After some explanation I learned that it was in fact a rolecop.

I am a cop of questionable sanity but thank you for letting the town know scum has a namecop.

How are you still a cop if your brain got stolen?

Uh this is all an elaborate plan which you have now foiled?

That's what my role is, it is what I will flip (I think) even though it was stolen. Fairly sure Stubbs will flip scum chocolate zombie not scum cop of questionable sanity, its the reverse of that.

[Slandaar]

Now, Titus, lets work together to make this Diner a safer place for all townies! vote Rift Adrift with me so that they can kill no more townies at night!

[Slandaar]

Semi back but will be back for real later.

Later has been and gone, why are you lurking so hard Peregrine?

[Slandaar]

I can't believe we didn't work this out sooner, Rift has to be scum, no townie would ever shoot our beloved Aunt especially considering how obvtown she was.

We must avenge her and show Rift that killing townies is unacceptable scum behaviour!

[Slandaar]

I feel like the only townie who is posting content in this game.

Rift is lurking it out, lets lynch them.

[Slandaar]

I can't believe we didn't work this out sooner, Rift has to be scum, no townie would ever shoot our beloved Aunt especially considering how obvtown she was.

We must avenge her and show Rift that killing townies is unacceptable scum behaviour!

<3

You're wonderful Slandaar

Thanks, unfortunately your buddying attempt has not gone unnoticed.

Now, Titus, lets work together to make this Diner a safer place for all townies! vote Rift Adrift with me so that they can kill no more townies at night!

Sure. It is time for you to self-vote.

I understand you are worried not enough townies are going to vote me for you to achieve your mislynch so I do not blame you for trying, however, please be advised I will not be selfvoting.

@mac,

How far into the game are you now?

Yes I also would like to know this.

@mac,

How far into the game are you now?

This.

Also, oriole it will break my heart if you get replaced.

Oh, well it can't hurt for me to post my thoughts which apparently were similar to a serial killers.

[Slandaar]

Just so you guys know deadline is in 18 hours so lets stop joking now and start voting someone we are going to actually lynch, BRO/Stubbs/Rift/Titus/Muffin all good choices I will vote whichever gets the most votes. In fact... I will probably just vote anyone who gets a few votes maybe not though. I wouldn't vote PV for example.

[Slandaar]

Yeah someone hurry up and hammer Rift.
(I think thats who I am voting I forget)

[Slandaar]

Finally. Zoid was so unlucky...

VOTE: Slandaar