Open 528: The Room of DOOM! GAME OVER

[Skelda]

Hello everyone. Toodles. I'm Skelda. This is my first non-Newbie game, so I guess we'll see how that goes. I do not care for the random vote stage, so I will not be participating, but whatever floats your boat. Looking forward to a good game...

[Skelda]

Hey doctor pepper: rule 3 says even the recently lynched can talk at night, but the next rule says that no dead players can post. Could you clarify?

Skelda:

Neither do I, its a lot of paranoia that runs rampant, but its better than NOTHING.

I read about RQS, and became very interested in it, so I think ill try it out here:
This a question to all of you, awnser however you want to.

What's your favorite Pet and why?

Not sure if that's EXACTLY how ya do it but hey might as well try it.

Our odds as town aren't that great at first I have to say. Each person assuredly has 4/11 chance to lynch a scum today. Admittedly it's not THAT bad as that's just over a third.

So I have another question: with two mafia factions, does that mean we essentially have two kills per night? If that's true then God this should be interesting.

I don't quite see the point in completely random questions without a Mafia base, but whatever. I'll answer them...

My favorite pet is probably a cat too. Just because they are all independant and less disgusting versions of dogs.

Yes, there are two kills a night, but I suppose there is a chance of both factions choosing the same person, in which case there will just be one death I guess? Unless the second faction to choose is told that person is already dead, but I doubt that somehow. I've never played a game with two Mafias before. And I mean, odds of hitting a scum a Day 1 are better than the odds in an average game, since we have 4 scum, while most games with a single faction of similar sizes only have 2 or 3. Why did you feel the need to even bring up the odds, if we have decent town players this will not turn into a numbers game.

And since we are asking random questions, I suppose I'll try that as well. Do you all think it would be logical for the Masons to all claim Day 1 and why or why not? Also, under what circumstances do you think Masons should claim in this setup?

[Skelda]

And since we are asking random questions, I suppose I'll try that as well. Do you all think it would be logical for the Masons to all claim Day 1 and why or why not?

Definitely not. With two kills per Night, the only benefit claiming D1 would do is give us 3 less for our D1c lynch pool while sacrificing 2 conf-townies during our first Night (unless both factions kill the same Mason, which still isn't worth the benefits).

That is what I was thinking, but the thing is, it isn't likely for all three masons to survive the night, as there are three chances for them to die. And, once a Mason is dead, I think the legitimacy of all Mason claims will be put into check, since there will then be enough scum to fakeclaim Mason and even if the real Masons stepped forward, we would have no way of telling them apart. Of course, this would have to be done in a lylo sort of situation, since the instant a true Mason flipped Mason we would know who was lying, but I suppose it is in the town's best interest to try and keep all of the Masons alive for as long as possible.

Also, under what circumstances do you think Masons should claim in this setup?

Either when we're about to lynch a Mason (in which case only the one Mason should claim) or in later days where narrowing down the lynch pool gives us autowin or close to autowin. Otherwise we're just giving bait to the scum factions.

I think if all Masons survive the night and we lynch town, it would be ideal for them to step forward as that would lower of suspect pool considerably. But anyway, like I said, we don't want to get ourselves in the situation of only one or two Masons alive so the Mason role can be fakeclaimable, so I agree, if we are about to lynch one of the Masons, step forward but do not drag your Mason partners into it. And all Masons should be breadcrumbing their roles now...

[Skelda]

Now, then... hello, Brian Skies! Fancy meeting you here.

VOTE: Skelda
I like bandwagons.

So if I did this...

VOTE: Skelda

...you would like it?

I'm sure scum quite like it.

[Skelda]

Now, then... hello, Brian Skies! Fancy meeting you here.

VOTE: Skelda
I like bandwagons.

So if I did this...

VOTE: Skelda

...you would like it?

I'm sure scum quite like it.

I don't know about scum, but I certainly like it.

Why do like there being a bandwagon on me so early? And why would you feel the need to bring that up?

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

[Skelda]

Then what's the point of your vote? And I've already given an explanetion.

The way you said that you didn't know about scum seemed like you were distancing yourself and scum. It reminds me of saying, "If we try to think like scum..." when you are scum and know how to think like yourself. That is the sort of thing I've seen scum do, plus your explanation makes no sense to me. And I was just making it clear that I didn't want anyone to get past 3 votes this early, I wanted to make that clear when I voted. I'm not going to tunnel him, but I still don't see the town motivation for bandwagoning this early just for the sake of bandwagoning, even if it is just to cause pressure and something about that "I don't know about scum, but..." statement didn't sit right with me.

And JKLM, like you are doing more to get the game started. I don't care if it has been a day or a week since Day started, I like my vote to be on people I find scummy, and if the instant I vote for someone you act like we are causing a huge scene and try to stop it when all we are doing is generating discussion, what is the point of you? The more we fight, even if it is over nothing, the more we know about where loyalties lie. I doubt a town ever won without a little argument or two, so shut up and find something useful to do or we'll lynch you. That is all.

[Skelda]

What grounds would we have to policy lynch you? Perhaps instead of "lynch" I should of said "vote for". Who is to say that discouraging something that is causing conversation isn't scummy in it's own right?

And I cannot imagine any reason I would be dead-set on my vote on page 2, in fact, I made a point of saying that I would change my vote if people started voting to show that I wasn't sure. What exactly about it rubs you the wrong way, because I fail to see your point.

P-Edit: Yami, I guess what I meant was that I didn't want the bandwagon going any further than that since it was, at its core, pretty random. Partly poor wording on my part. And I agree with you about the generating content bit.

[Skelda]

Edit: "Any further than that too quickly." Damn phone not saying all the words I want it to.

[Skelda]

P-Edit: Yami, I guess what I meant was that I didn't want the bandwagon going any further than that since it was, at its core, pretty random. Partly poor wording on my part. And I agree with you about the generating content bit.

WHY DID YOU VOTE? Please answer that question.

I voted because I thought his behavior was odd and I wanted to express my suspicion, but seeing as he had rapidly just gotten two votes, I wasn't ready for a fourth too soon. What more reason did I need?

[Skelda]

Alright alright, I'll get on. I just get nervous that half of the people prob haven't even seen this thread but hm

vote dessew

I'm a very wishy washy person. You could even see that in the current game I'm playing. This vote is mostly for pressure for now.

Edit:

I made this post hours ago but ne'er posted it. I'll do a big p edit later.

VOTE: Vote: JKLM because you, not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore, but you have been really fishy all game. I don't like it.

[Skelda]

VOTE: JKLM

[Skelda]

The fact that JKLM is being so wishy-washy/refusing to vote and Dessew was only a mild suspect anyway. I don't suspect Dessew any less, I suspect JK more and Dessew pales in comparison. But, since it is so early my vote is meant to be thrown around. Why are you getting so hung up over me changing my vote to create a little drama, anyway? It isn't as though I didn't specifically say that if Dessew got another vote I would remove mine.

[Skelda]

I'll give reads as well.

Brian Skies- Leaning town. He is forming reads, making opinions, and trying to clear up issues for other players. I like his posts.
Yami- Null-town. He is being forceful and getting hung up over my changing votes, but asking a lot of the right sort of questions. He also answered my mason question in a way I liked.
Dessew- Null-scum. I disliked her comments, but at this point I am not confident in my suspicion. I would like to hear more so I can decide for sure.
JK- Leaning scum. His wishy-washy thoughts and refusal to vote are just odd, as well as the way he only voting when it became clear that he was a suspect if he didn't. Part of it might be playstyle, though.

P-Edit: Yami, my suspicion of Dessew was weak to begin with, and I was more or less just voting so that my vote didn't rot in my possession. I thought I made my weak suspicion clear when I first voted, but you seem to be getting hung up on something that just isn't a big deal. But the point is, I told you that I was going to Unvote if people started voting Dessew, and I've explained why when I first did it. Why are you getting so irritated when it happens?

And for the record, my read changed by comparison. Period.

[Skelda]

Okay, but I don't know what answer you expect me to give. Dessew hasn't posted in a while, and so there is no real reason Dessew became less suspicious other than JK becoming more suspicious and, the fact that I don't picture them as scum together, from what they've posted so far. I dislike how you are forcing me into a box where there is no evidence because it is page 2. Dessew is less because JK is more. I don't understand what is wrong with that. There's nothing else I could say.

[Skelda]

Alright, Yami, I'm going to try a new way of explaining myself. Let us suppose that my suspicions is my sight and I am sitting in a room with a bunch of writing utensils. For the sake of argument, Des is a crayon and JK is a pencil. At first, I look at the entire bunch evenly, when I notice something odd about the color of the crayon, so I look towards it while remaining very aware of the rest of the bunch. Then, the pencil moves and, of course, I immediately turn towards it and any oddity about the crayon seems insignificant. That is what just happened. I still think the crayon is odd, but I don't notice it as much as I did prior to the pencil's movement. Make sense?

P-Edit: Hello there. Nice to know you have a lot to say.

[Skelda]

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

VOTE: Vote: JKLM because you, not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore, but you have been really fishy all game. I don't like it.

So what do you guys think about a skelda/Dessew scum team? I don't like skelda voting then saying he will unvote if anybody else's votes Dessew. What is the point of your vote then?
Then JKLM votes and, as promised, skelda unvoted and votes JKLM. Oh yeah, and Dessew is no longer a scum read?

VOTE: Skelda

Yami is probably town. Still undecided on everybody else.

-Karnage-

For the umpteenth time, Dessew is not not a scum read, just less of a scumread now that JK came along. My goodness!

I really should have just FoSed Dessew, but that isn't my style. But you all need to stop fixating on it and move on. It is irritating me, and I feel as though I've given my defense on all of those points already. What about them don't you find adequate?

I want to hear Dessew's take on all of these goings on, I feel like that will reveal a lot.

[Skelda]

With my Mason question, I wasn't fishing. I hope no Mason would be stupid enough to actually claim Day One. I was looking to help prevent Mason claims and let Masons know when it would be advisable to claim ahead of time, since many of us will be dead by the time a Mason claim takes place. That was my logic, anyway.

Also, I thought it was dangerous to fakeclaim Mason in this setup, and if Masons breadcrumb and tell their fellow Masons the crumbs, it would be possible to prove a Mason claim later even when only one Mason is alive. I see nothing wrong with that.

Alright, yes, I feel like sometimes I'm not making myself clear. I did not mean to heavily imply that my read had changed more than it had actually, but since Dessew hasn't even posted in between my vote and unvote, there was nothing that he could have done to change my read, so I don't understand.

And also, I see now that my Dessew vote was a little useless, but it did its job of expressing my mild suspicion of Dessew, which still exists to a certain level. In the future, I will not announce plans to unvote since clearly that doesn't accomplice much.

[Skelda]

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

Why do you want to bring the unvoting part up at this point? Wouldn't it be better to see what happens without you saying you"ll unvote?

That is what I should of done. I messed up, fine. Let's move on.

I voted because I thought his behavior was odd and I wanted to express my suspicion, but seeing as he had rapidly just gotten two votes, I wasn't ready for a fourth too soon. What more reason did I need?

If he was suspicious, what's the problem getting a fourth vote on him? Isn't pressure the best way to see a players reactions?

I didn't want a bunch of people jumping on him too fast. That makes me uncomfortable.

That's all you have to say? I know we just started, but really? Nothing else?

Does it bother you that much? It was page 1...

Page one or page 30, there was legitimate discussion, which you promptly ignored.

This vote is mostly for pressure for now

Are you only voting him for pressure? If you are, why mention it?

That is basically what I did earlier, and doing so was clearly a mistake on my part. I don't blame him for it.

not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore

I don't suspect Dessew any less

which is it? Isn't it a little early for contradictions?

That isn't fair. Those were taken out of context. In the second I was trying to explain the first's admittedly poor wording after you all attacked me because of it. I've given my explanation for this many times and I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Alright, Yami, I'm going to try a new way of explaining myself. Let us suppose that my suspicions is my sight and I am sitting in a room with a bunch of writing utensils. For the sake of argument, Des is a crayon and JK is a pencil. At first, I look at the entire bunch evenly, when I notice something odd about the color of the crayon, so I look towards it while remaining very aware of the rest of the bunch. Then, the pencil moves and, of course, I immediately turn towards it and any oddity about the crayon seems insignificant. That is what just happened. I still think the crayon is odd, but I don't notice it as much as I did prior to the pencil's movement. Make sense?

If you say "the crayon doesn't look odd anymore" and then later "I think the crayon looks equally odd", how does that make sense to you?

Stubbs.[/quote]

I said "the oddity seemed insignficant". What about that don't you understand? The crayon's color is still equally odd, but in the moment and in the light of a new suspect, it SEEMED different.

[Skelda]

it would be possible to prove a Mason claim later even when only one Mason is alive. I see nothing wrong with that.

I disagree, since scum can do that (breadcrumb) just as easily.

Let us suppose two flipped Masons are dead and the town is in lylo. Are you telling me that if the third Mason was able to identify very subtle Mason crumbs by his two dead partners and give his own crumb he wouldn't be nearly proven Mason?

[Skelda]

Dessew, if your random vote on me changed to a legitimate one at that wierd post, why? I had like two posts at that point.

I also dislike the eh and ellipsis on my posts, Dessew. Is that seriously all that you have to say?

I agree that JK needs to learn the difference between posting and generating content. However, the idea that he is just lacking in experience does comes to mind... I don't know, not sure what to make of him. He is still my top scumread, though.

[Skelda]

Welcome Hiraki! What do you make of this game so far?

[Skelda]

If you find JK to be a bigger scumread than me, why are you voting for me? I don't understand what you mean by me slipping, as well. I just don't see how me changing a vote and then being attacked for it is such a big deal? Can someone explain it please explain to me why you all are jumping on it, because I still don't see it? I kind of blew it off as being blamed for something that was just a matter of saying stuff in the moment that is unnecessary, which tends to happen a lot in these games, and then havong people repeatedly jump on it and irritate me with it, forcing me to answer something that I'd already answered. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here...

Also, I definitely do not like the post about grasping at straws, simply because doesn't it help the town to keep everyone talking and try to get people to reveal themselves? How does that hurt us, bringing up little things that are likely of no significance?

Other than that, I mean, great post. I may not agree with all of the points (Dessew is by no means my most townish player, for instance), but it seems to be the product of a very townie mindset or a scum who is a particularly good actor.

On another note, I thought it was worth mentioning that my computer isn't functioning at the moment, so all of my posts are tablet posts, so I don't see that as an excuse...

[Skelda]

Yeah I take it back the amount of time I have plus the amount of time I NEED to put it in just don't match up. Wouldn't want to hurt the town game so I think I'll just sub out of here.

No intent to sound pretentious, I very clearly know what I'm like and don't need to be reminded of it.

I'm gonna PM the mod to sub me then for game sake, sorry for the trouble. Ah, how life does like to happen.

P edit:

It was to fish for your reaction skelda.

Also tablets are bigger than your hand at least. Typing is impossible here.

Oh, I see. I feel dumb that I didn't see that, but whatever.

If you really are leaving I'm going to UNVOTE: JKLM since I don't want my vote on some random nonexistant person. And VOTE: Dessew because he's been in second place for scumminess. Hopefully if JK's replacement is town he/she will prove him/herself as such, since this does not change my JK suspicion particularly.

[Skelda]

Also, I definitely do not like the post about grasping at straws, simply because doesn't it help the town to keep everyone talking and try to get people to reveal themselves? How does that hurt us, bringing up little things that are likely of no significance?

That's not quite what the point of Hiraki's comment was.[/quote]

I think I get what he was implying. I'm telling him what that comment was about, even though he never asked for an explanation.

[Skelda]

Also, I definitely do not like the post about grasping at straws, simply because doesn't it help the town to keep everyone talking and try to get people to reveal themselves? How does that hurt us, bringing up little things that are likely of no significance?

You're going to have to identify what portion of my post you're talking about here.

Page one or page 30, there was legitimate discussion, which you promptly ignored.

Yet, even Yami said he was over-reacting. You're reaching out for air, Skelda.

This was the post was referring to.

[Skelda]

Hopefully if JK's replacement is town he/she will prove him/herself as such, since this does not change my JK suspicion particularly.

What is it supposed to mean?"/quote]

I still see JK as scummy, but if he happens to be a scummy town, I'm hoping his replacement proves the townish side of things.

[Skelda]

This was the post was referring to.

How is that grasping at straws? Yami admitted that he was over-reacting to one post before you posted that.

I know, but I was bringing it up again because Dessew seemed to counter over-react. Plus, as far as I'm concerned, it is scum-motivated to ignore discussion. That is why I was so suspicious of JKLM.

[Skelda]

I didn't want a bunch of people jumping on him too fast. That makes me uncomfortable.

Why would a wagon on one of your scum reads make you uncomfortable?

Because it was page two! I don't like a lot of people jumping on someone right off the bat.

[Skelda]

Tbh, I don't understand the people who refuse to RVS, but his vote&unvote made even less sense.

You don't even think it could've made a little bit of a joke from previous experiences?

I got that it was a joke. I just don't get why that vote couldn't stay.

This was the post was referring to.

How is that grasping at straws? Yami admitted that he was over-reacting to one post before you posted that.

I know, but I was bringing it up again because Dessew seemed to counter over-react. Plus, as far as I'm concerned, it is scum-motivated to ignore discussion. That is why I was so suspicious of JKLM.

Counter-overreact? And it was page 1, as it was said earlier. (Or your post was at page 3, whatever.) Now you shoud complain about inactivity, but then it was stupid.

I forgot to post about Masons:
If masons and scum are all breadcrumbing, then such a breadcrumb doesn't really mean anything. But it can be picked up, that's why I think mason shouldn't breadcrumb. I haven't metaed you, Hiraki, have you played this setup frequently?

Let's put it this way: Masons should breadcrumb only if they are able to do it and tell their crumbs to their partners. I see no harm in breadcrumbing if they can do so subtly.

[Skelda]

I am very concerned with the state of activity in this game (not from us but from everyone else)

Yes, very much so. This last of reads and content isn't helping us find the scum.

[Skelda]

I didn't want a bunch of people jumping on him too fast. That makes me uncomfortable.

Why? Putting other people other pressure makes you uncomfortable? How does that make sense to you?

Maybe it is irrational and that quicklynches rarely happen in practice, but I always feel a little wary about them when people start talking about wagons.

That isn't fair. Those were taken out of context. In the second I was trying to explain the first's admittedly poor wording after you all attacked me because of it. I've given my explanation for this many times and I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Your explanation just doesn't make sense. That's why you're getting pushed on it. The fact that you fail to give a reasonable explanation makes me feel good about my vote.

What about it doesn't make sense?

[Skelda]

VOTE: Hiraki

Care to explain?

V/LA til Sunday

Quick! Throw a party!

You did actually post, so I guess we can't complain, can we? Well, I do.

Yes, breadcrumbing can't harm if it's done subtly enough, but that's really hard to do, I guess.

If you the Masons won't be capable of it, here's an idea: everyone could breadcrumb, with the Masons telling each other their breadcrumbs. Would that work?

[Skelda]

Also, I forgot to move my vote.

VOTE: Mutley

What exactly has Mutley done? I don't find him particularly scummy, he hasn't been on my radar much at least.

[Skelda]

Also, I forgot to move my vote.

VOTE: Mutley

What exactly has Mutley done? I don't find him particularly scummy, he hasn't been on my radar much at least.

Do you think he's scum? Do you think he's town? If you can't answer yes to either question with confidence, then there is something wrong. And this is why I'm voting him. Just because Kubbs wants to condone his actions up to this point based on meta doesn't mean I have.

Hmm, yes I suppose. I want to hear more from him anyway. I'm not getting strong town or scum signals from him, though, and I assumed his style of posting is just his playstyle

[Skelda]

, but I don't blame you for voting for him. And in the meantime...

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Vierra Assassin for lack of content. Come on people, we all need to participate!

Sorry, I hit the submit button on accident before I was finished.

[Skelda]

, but I don't blame you for voting for him. And in the meantime...

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Vierra Assassin for lack of content. Come on people, we all need to participate!

Sorry, I hit the submit button on accident before I was finished.

there's only one R
that goes for you too dp

And that matters...how? This game has 6 pages, read them and post your reads. You have no excuse at this point.

[Skelda]

This game has 6 pages, read them and post your reads.

What?

That was supposed to be a 7, by the way.

[Skelda]

I don't see how it could make mason easier to find.

There is a difference in numbers: 5 townies, 3 masons, 2 mafia, 2 werewolves. Unless the town knows what they're doing, the masons will stick out like sore thumbs. Even if the town will be able to point them out later, if the bread-crumbing isn't done properly, the mafia teams will sniff them out before night 1 is done.

Now, if the town is extremely competent and understands how to breadcrumb and the masons know what they're doing, this wouldn't be a problem.[/quote]

What makes you think the masons breadcrumbs will be any better than town's? If everyone breadcrumbs, the scum have no way of telling the difference between townie and mason breadcrumbs, and because of the nature of the mason role, if one of them dies the role will be fake-claimable by scum, so it would be beneficial to the rest of us to let the Masons be able to leave hints of their identity safely. The only downsides I see are that if two Masons die it takes a validity out of breadcrumbs and it removes the scumtell of leaving Mason breadcrumbs.

[Skelda]

I don't think I'm being clear.

I don't have a problem with masons bread-crumbing so long as the town knows how to do it properly without making the masons obvious to scum. If the town doesn't do it properly, the masons will become obvious to the scum because of the nature of the numbers. This is done through process of elimination by finding the people who can't possibly be masons and finding a group of three.

Unless the town is extremely competent, or the masons are good enough to make up for this handicap, bread-crumbing is extremely dangerous.

So, in order for this to work, everyone has to do it. Are we all on-board with breadcrumbing? I think that everyone or a lot of people breadcrumbing is better and more confusing for scum than just the masons breadcrumbing regardless, though.

[Skelda]

I hope there is more to come, no?

From Red or from people in general?

With half of the player list posting only infrequently and generating very little content, I would like more from everyone. As for Red, I think that is enough to satisfy me for now. He is making more an an effort than, say, Viera, whose longest post has consisted of correcting the spelling of her name.

What more would you want Red to say, though?

[Skelda]

Alright, so at first I thought that, while Red's read list was by no means impressive, it was certainly better than doing what VA and Mut are doing. But, it is clear that his reaction is at the very least extremely poor town play, but more likely scum. Now, I'm not going to jump the gun and tell him that he need not post, but for right now, I feel a vote from me not on Redelphic would be a bit of a waste, so, with that in mind...

VOTE: Redelphic If you are town, I will be mildly surprised, but I'd start acting like it because right now your lynch is looming, even if we do have ages to decide.

And as for notscience and Brian Skies, I think you are both town, although if Red flips town (unlikely), I might wind up feeling differently. Actually, I'm probably going to feel differently at some point since I'm always second-guessing myself in these games, but as for right now based on this argument you both seem to have the best interest of the town in mind.

And Hiraki, given that you 180'd your read on me over the course of one post, it seems calculated and not necessarily scummy. At least, it isn't you contradicting yourself.

P-Edit: notscience, I'd like to know that as well.

PP-Edit: How does people (plural) townreading him make him scum? Even the scum only have one partner?

[Skelda]

And as for notscience and Brian Skies, I think you are both town, although if Red flips town (unlikely), I might wind up feeling differently. Actually, I'm probably going to feel differently at some point since I'm always second-guessing myself in these games, but as for right now based on this argument you both seem to have the best interest of the town in mind.

Redelphic replaced JKLM. I can assure you that the slot was already scummy before Red replaced in.

Oh of course! I forgot about that! Two scummy players in a spot=REALLY scummy spot.

[Skelda]

But proddodging apparently catches scum

I need to do it more often

Or you could, um, generate content?

I'm sorry, prod-dodging is annoying and should be done less. You have a better chance of catching scum participating, as far as I'm concerned.

[Skelda]

But proddodging apparently catches scum

I need to do it more often

Or you could, um, generate content?

I'm sorry, prod-dodging is annoying and should be done less. You have a better chance of catching scum participating, as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a member of the other scumteam.

It's clear you haven't read what I've been doing and yet you're passing me off as "not producing content."

2/4, where's the other 2.

Are you seriously telling me that you only posting to prod-dodge somehow makes me scum? Until fairly recently, you have contributed very little to this thread in its formative stages and now are acting as though that is a legitimate strategy! We are already drowning in inactivity and then you say, "Well, prod-dodging worked this time, why don't I keep doing it?" That is a terrible idea. We need to be encouraging activity, not proposing it as a strategy. Not a Town strategy, at least...

Personally, I think you have too big of an ego, and are giving yourself too much credit. If Red is scum, your lack of content until recently didn't tell us that, his reaction to Brian and you and reads did. And if you are proposing that you were intentionally only prod-dodging early on to get scum to slip up, I just don't buy that.

[Skelda]

But proddodging apparently catches scum

I need to do it more often

Or you could, um, generate content?

I'm sorry, prod-dodging is annoying and should be done less. You have a better chance of catching scum participating, as far as I'm concerned.

Here's a member of the other scumteam.

It's clear you haven't read what I've been doing and yet you're passing me off as "not producing content."

2/4, where's the other 2.

Are you seriously telling me that you only posting to prod-dodge somehow makes me scum? Until fairly recently, you have contributed very little to this thread in its formative stages and now are acting as though that is a legitimate strategy! We are already drowning in inactivity and then you say, "Well, prod-dodging worked this time, why don't I keep doing it?" That is a terrible idea. We need to be encouraging activity, not proposing it as a strategy. Not a Town strategy, at least...

Personally, I think you have too big of an ego, and are giving yourself too much credit. If Red is scum, your lack of content until recently didn't tell us that, his reaction to Brian and you and reads did. And if you are proposing that you were intentionally only prod-dodging early on to get scum to slip up, I just don't buy that.

And here's the thing

That's not why I'm scumreading you, I'm scumreading you for the scolding condescension. It's clear you don't comprehend a joke. If you haven't been able to tell, I'm posting actively now, yet feel the need to say that. It looks like scum trying to find any tidbit to call out without saying "they are scum." Hell, you just said it's "not a town strategy" without saying if it is a scum strategy or not, essentially leaving it open-ended to come back to.

Personally, I really don't care what you think of me. Here's a secret- "um idk maybe they r scumz" does not get scum lynched. His reaction to my randomshit (which I actually use in other games to get reactions if you metacheck me) is entirely up for grabs.

So, yeah.

Notice how he's not even TRYING to engage in a 1v1, moreso whines about it.

Nice try though, you're next up for lynching.

That was supposed to be a joke? I don't find it particularly funny, and that is just my personality. But calling me scum based on taking a joke too seriously is mad! And, I wasn't even calling you scum, in fact immediately prior to that I said that I was reading you as town, but I thought that particular post was weird and so I commented on it. Now you are clearly overreacting, as far as I'm concerned not understanding a joke is not a tell at all, and is just part of my personality, and the fact that you think my sense of humor makes me scum is outrageous. And, tbh, a little scummy.

Now, excuse me while I catch up on the bit I missed...
t

[Skelda]

Alright, so with Red, I liked his243. It seemed a bit like a genuinely frustrated town to me. At the moment think with him and notscience, one is scum and one a bad town. And, admittedly, the way notscience jumped the gun on Red being scum might be a scum taking advantage of a player who is inexperienced and gives an easy lynch. Or maybe they are both scum different factions, that's a definite possibility. But, notscience exaggerating how scummy Red, along with the fact that no on currently has their vote on notscience, makes me think that VOTE: notscience might be a good idea for now. If he flips town, though, we are totally lynching Red. And I'm not opposed to a Red lynch either, but at the moment, between Hiraki's ideas on notscience and notscience's pushing so hard, I think notscience at least deserves a vote.

[Skelda]

notscience, suspecting someone because they don't get a joke is bad, town or scum.

Hiraki may have meant it in a town way, but to me it seems pretty damn scummy.

I don't even know what voteparking or lining up a lynch is. I could make educated guesses, but I'd rather you explain what exactly I'm doing.

And notscience, I'm not voting you because you are threatening me. I'm voting you because Red was getting all of the heat and you were somehow being ignored. Plus you were trying to take all the credit for the Red potential lynch, maybe you are both scum!

[Skelda]

Alright then! First, you have a completely random, unexplained vote on Hiraki, (you've sine explained it unsatisfactorily) and then Red comes along and says some fishy things, and then you scream, "We caught one, and all because of my lurking early on!" Well, shucks. Stop the "OMG I is scumz" posts, stop misrepresenting, and stop being so presumptuous.

And you DID force your ideas of Red's scummishness onto him. Whether Hiraki thinks you are scum or not, his case holds water. Just read 256. Forcing words down people's throats is scummy, and you should know better.

I don't care whether Red is scum or not in my case against you. He likely is, but I think you are from a different faction and you aren't getting off free while Red pays for the confrontation. You had a role in that, and don't forget it!

[Skelda]

Are (/were) you scumreading Hiraki because others are (/were) not?

Yep.

I think that is stupid. Maybe, if no one is voting for someone, that means that the majority aren't interested in their lynch yet or they aren't being suspicious?

I just realized that we are less than five days away from lynching time. And so, we need to figure out for sure who we all going to kill pretty soon. Just keep that in mind...

[Skelda]

Skelda, I've been caught as scum for not being a scumspect.

Um what?

Him not being on peoples scumdars when he was before as town bugs me.

So, what you are saying is, having another player read as town bothers you? That isn't scummy at all.

[Skelda]

GOD DAMNIT HIRAKI LETS FIGHT

IM GOING TO MISCONSTRUE EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING YOU SAY NOW

But regardless, he all of a sudden shifted off because he knew he got fucked up.

3/4 Scum.

I' m really disliking how certain you are with your reads. You are like: we have found 3/4s of the scum, when in reality the chances of you being correct on everything are so slim. You can't be that sure, it isn't possible.

I now I actually suspicious of MetalSonic after that Hiraki case. Hiraki's posts were so clearly manipulated by him, and, while town certainly misrep as well, I'm undecided on him.

I think the votes on VA confuse me. I voted for her earlier, before I realized she was Saki. But Saki seems known for that sort of thing, so I don't think an experienced player voting her at this point makes much sense.

[Skelda]

I can't speak for MS, but I am not scum and he is not my scumbuddy. I'm inclined to think that MS is town, though. You are really frustrating to try and play with, notscience, because you only hear what you want to hear.

[Skelda]

And see, here comes the discredits and AtE.

Typical caught-scum move.

I'm sure you'd like to think it is. UNVOTE: notscience I really think you are just like this.

Can someone please explain the VA votes to me? If it is Saki, that makes no sense to me, especially since others have been ignored who are posting no content either.

[Skelda]

What do you mean, forced? Hey NSin, how are you? Anyway...

I honestly don't know what to do at this point. Obviously I know my own lynch is bad, but this whole game is just a mass of inactivity and stupidity.

A VOTE: Red is what I've got. JK was scummy and he is scummy. And as for VA, I dunno. She barely posted at all in the last game I played with her, because she replaced in late. So I think just Null, honestly.

Notscience is a pain, but not sure he's scum.

I guess a lot of the votes for me are just votes for the way I am. Right now, my biggest scumread is Red. Everything else is confused.

[Skelda]

Well, if I'm going to die soon, I might as well post some final reads so I can have some sort of impact on the game after I flip, even if you are making a mistake.

Dessew- Dessew was really suspicious early on, and since then we've just sort of forgotten about him. But, he doesn't seem stable in his reads, looking back. He read me as town for the longest time and changed his mind when the votes started coming. Keep that in mind...

Redelphic- Came in a tangle of newbieness and scumminess. It was immediately obvious to everyone what his intent was, I'm not even sure why he isn't dying today, honestly.

Mnemonicdevice- I forgot he was playing this game. Why has no one called him out for lurking while everyone noticed VA? That's a bit odd.

Yami- He smells so strongly of town. Asks a lot of questions, gets a lot of answers, I think, if he's scum, he's a pretty damn impressive one.

Brian- If I had to pick any player to mark as town now, it would be Brian. He is being so logical and so on point, and really is the most townie, at least as far as I'm concerned. I have been fooled before, but I have no reason to doubt him.

-Kubbs- Has been odd at times. Just goes along with the flow and sticks to the shadows, so to speak. Was also one of the ones to to after VA for no reason.

Hiraki- Hiraki has this game in the palm of his hand. But really, the people who try to get Hiraki lynched are probably scum. He seems to know what he's doing, anyway. And no one seems to see him as a genuine suspect.

notscience- You are a complete douche, and probably town, but I'm not sure what to make of you. Very quick to judge people, though.

Metal Sonic- I mean, I've read him as town. He's another one I kind of forget about at times, not sure how much he has contributed, but oh well. Glad he believed in me, though.

Viera Assassin- At least she's consistent with her meta as NSin and Saki. But, in general a pain. I hope she comes around to do something tomorrow.

Luigi- As mutley, he was ignored and did the same thing as Viera. As Luigi, he is just another lurker.

Also, as for the extension, whatever. If you don't kill me today, they'll just kill me tomorrow. At least this way they'll see the town flip and not waste two Days on me.

[Skelda]

Oh, I needed to claim?

I'm a Vanilla Townie. Which is good, I suppose. At least you aren't losing a Mason...

[Skelda]

If you don't kill me today, they'll just kill me tomorrow.

why say this as vt

Because if there is no lynch today due to the deadline having already run out, I'm just going to die tomorrow and waste that Day. That's what I meant. By "they" I meant the town collectively. I would be the dumbest person for scum to kill atm since everyone suspects me.

[Skelda]

Am I hammered? So long guys.

[Skelda]

What a failure of a game. Gosh, that was terrible. I really, really hate being scum, I'm horrible at it anyway. Well, good game town, even though the win was handed to you. I think all the scum were just bad at being bad, so yeah. Dessew was pretty obvious, I failed obviously, JKLM/Red were uggh, and then VA was there doing I don't even know what. I seriously think that without some more experienced scum players, we were toast.