Micro 241 -- Chain of Command -- Game Over

[Elyse]

HEY!

VOTE: Daniel Bryan

[Elyse]

VOTE: EspeciallytheLies

Self-votes are scum!!!

Wait why does it take seven to lynch and not five?

[Elyse]

Didn't know him

[Elyse]

No, but I don't like your reaction to it.

[Elyse]

No, but I don't like your reaction to it.

What reaction? Her voting you for failing a reaction test? Heck, if she didn't, I would have.

No, but I don't like your reaction to it.

You don't think it makes me scum, but you're voting for me.

[Elyse]

Oops didn't respond.

No, but I don't like your reaction to it.

What reaction? Her voting you for failing a reaction test? Heck, if she didn't, I would have.

What reaction test? And why aren't you voting me then?

No, but I don't like your reaction to it.

You don't think it makes me scum, but you're voting for me.

Yes. I voted you to get a reaction out of you and see what people would say and I did not like your reaction.

[Elyse]

How do you know it was a reaction test?

And do you seriously think that I opportunistically jumped on a RVS WAGON?!?! As if it would go anywhere? Saying people are scum for something done during RVS is great for reactions. I find that scum are often jumpier and react like ETL did (zomg do you actually think I'm scum for that?????) but it could just be playstyle. That's why I don't put toooo much merit into it.

Please. If this was a serious wagon, your argument would have legitimacy. But it's not.

[Elyse]

Except I wasn't all "ZOMG DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK I'M SCUM FOR THAT?????" I asked if you really thought it made me scum. I wanted to know how you would justify your reaction.

And of course it was a reaction test. Why wouldn't it be? What possible gain is there other than seeing who would jump on it screaming, and I quote:

Self-votes are scum!!!

I know you weren't screaming in all caps. I never said you were. Nice misrep though? Any type of reaction to that is scummy. I would expect you to ignore it. But, as I said, you seem to be a more cautious player so I could see that coming from you as town.

And I dunno why you self-voted. I thought you were just having fun because you basically hand-picked this playerlist.

How are you now saying "I was reaction testing the reaction test"? I mean, if that's the case, why didn't you recognize what I was doing?

I'm not saying that.

I didn't know your self-vote was a reaction test.

How do you know it was a reaction test?

Because self votes are either done at the beginning of RVS when they're null, or it's in reaction to something later in the game, at which point it's dependent on the context. This was neither. Simplest answer was a reaction test to get us out of RVS.

Ok. So am I scummy for not knowing that?

And do you seriously think that I opportunistically jumped on a RVS WAGON?!?!

Yes.

This is just stupid. As scum, there is ZERO motivation to hop on a RVS wagon and hope to ride it out. Come on now.

As if it would go anywhere?

You put ETL at L-2. I'd say the intent was to lynch her.

I hope you're joking.

Saying people are scum for something done during RVS is great for reactions. I find that scum are often jumpier and react like ETL did (zomg do you actually think I'm scum for that?????) but it could just be playstyle. That's why I don't put toooo much merit into it.

RVS is just another part of the game. No one is excused for their actions because "lol RVS". Scum can be caught during RVS too, and in fact, they have.

Ummmmmm....I don't really understand that in response to what I said. I never said people are excused for their actions in RVS.

[Elyse]

No, you're scummy for opportunistically jumping on an easy wagon for policy reasons and then backpedaling when called out on it by simultaneously saying "It was a reaction test." and "It was an RVS wagon.".

IT WASN'T SERIOUS. WAGON HOPS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME DURING RVS. It helps to move the game along. And hello, it just did.

You saw an opportunity pushing the self vote reason, and you leapt at it. Calling it an "RVS wagon" is just a way to excuse yourself of your actions.

Wisdom already explained this better than I can, but it was a reaction test, and you need to reevaluate your formulation of reads if you think I was seriously trying to lynch ETL there.

Do you mean to tell me you put people at L-2 all the time without any intention of lynching them?

In RVS I do, yes. And don't even say "RVS doesn't excuse your actions" when people wagon for no reason in RVS all the time.

Then why are you trying to excuse your actions by calling it "an RVS wagon"?

Oh. I thought you meant that I said things that occurred during RVS didn't count. Yes, scum can be caught during RVS, and it can be useful (barely), but bandwagoning to L-2 is not something that is scummy at all. Especially considering that is was obviously for reactions and I asked why the number of votes to lynch was higher than normal.

Wisdom <33333
Yay thank you for giving me a solid town read. I agree with you here.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

P-edit:
ZOMG I'M PUTTING HIM TO L-2 I MUST BE SCUM!!!111!1!!!!11

[Elyse]

IT WASN'T SERIOUS.

I thought you said it was a reaction test? That's a serious reason to vote.

By serious I mean a vote with reasoning and intent to lynch. A reaction test is not a serious vote, in my opinion at least. I think you are now arguing semantics and you should stop.

WAGON HOPS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME DURING RVS.

True, but as soon as someone gets 3 votes, RVS is effectively over. A wagon with 3 or more votes is a serious wagon.

Also, while wagon hops may happen all the time during RVS, the people doing the hopping will always be questioned for their actions.

Is that a rule? Nope. Wagons can go to L-1 during RVS. It's not like the first two reasonless votes are okay and the next one is "STOP! YOU ARE SCUM! YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A SERIOUS REASON!" What are you even pushing here?

and you need to reevaluate your formulation of reads if you think I was seriously trying to lynch ETL there.

You put her 2 away from lynch. What were you trying to do to her if not trying to get her lynched?

Reaction test. I feel like a broken record. The vote number doesn't matter. I could put her at L-1 for reactions. I've done it before. She wasn't getting lynched on page freaking 2.

Also, why the claim so early? And why me or 50 shades?

I'm not too clear on the setup. Does the lieutenant have to be town or are PRs meaningless to alignment?

[Elyse]

Is this your first game because intent to hammer has a pretty clear meaning...?

[Elyse]

Widsom, I do agree with your Bulb scumread but you should still share your thoughts if he asks you too.

[Elyse]

It's page 6. I don't have all the information I need yet.

But at an early glance, ETL could be your partner. If you aren't scum, Flammus and someone else.

[Elyse]

Wisdom, mollie, and I are in the same game. This is giving me terrible flashbacks.

[Elyse]

Antihero does lurk as scum, but I think this is more of a RL reason rather than a game reason.

[Elyse]

Can you not spam multiple posts at once

[Elyse]

Sakura is probably the second scum.

Look at her ISO.

She votes for Bulb, then quickly to Flammus, then Antihero and says she's not moving off Antihero because she "trusts Nacho's read". This is on a slot that has only posted prod-dodges and replace-out posts by that point. I find it very suspect that she abandons her own reasons for votes and goes with someone else's because it "fits his scumplay to a T".

And this is the slot that has only posted prod-dodges and replace-out posts

.

I understand Nacho saying that Antihero is scummy for being lurky, but as I already stated, it seems to be non-game related. If mastin calls me scum for this, so be it I guess. I don't really care since it's dumb anyway.

[Elyse]

Why do you even play if you're just going to sheep other people

[Elyse]

I feel like you are smart enough to have your own opinions. But I digress.

It's easier for scum to latch on to what other people say and ride with it rather than form their own opinions. I feel you are competent enough to come up with your own opinions as well.

P-edit:
Also that

[Elyse]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[Elyse]

Wait so you actually have a townread on them? I thought you were just "auto-townreading" them for Day 1. Which is it?

[Elyse]

They tie into the others. Elyse shows a contradiction in mindset between 29 and 35, and then contradicts it again in 39, and AGAIN in 41. Yet once MORE in 45. To some extent in 65 and 81, though these get progressively weaker as time goes on. (133 is the last.)

You talk big but you have yet to actually show any proof besides quoting my ISO. (?)

She's been changing her story the whole time, growing increasingly desperate to get the attention off of her as the lie she's told has grown. All from a vote that was already bad.

When it actually

works

and people get off of her, it slowly begins to fade out of her iso, but lingers until the subject is dropped entirely.

How have I changed my story at all? I told the truth and have been the whole time. And I don't understand how the bolded is scummy. I don't know what "it" is but why would I, as town or scum, consistently bring up something that makes me look scummy? What you're saying just isn't true. It doesn't make sense for me to keep talking about something that makes me look bad (as any alignment) when it's being dropped entirely.

Now this is assuming that my vote on Bulb was actually bad and scummy, which it wasn't.

[Elyse]

do you believeeee in love after love

It's LIFE after love.

[Elyse]

mastin just feels like that scum that is good with words and nobody suspects. He keeps saying things without explaining them and nobody cares to ask him to do so. Like his recent "flammus is scum if wisdom isn't", which is completely baseless but nobody is going to care about.

His concern about not wanting the day to end feels fake as he doesn't really try to interact with anyone.

I completely agree with this. I feel like we're on the same wavelength.

I've addressed things to mastin but he hasn't responded to them, despite saying no one is asking him anything. And that's such a stupid excuse anyway. It's your job to persuade people on your suspects and convince them why you're right. It's not anyone else's job to get that info from you. Do it yourself or shut up. It just seems like a convenient excuse to avoid giving reasons for your horrible, horrible reads.

[Elyse]

Good point about the secondary wincon thing.

[Elyse]

The more I think about it, the more that makes sense.

Why would he be so willing to claim and claim early if he was aware of the wincon?

It does make sense if he's scum and thinks his claim will get him off the hook.

[Elyse]

I'm saying he probably is scum...

[Elyse]

Mastin, you keep talking about me being scum but haven't interacted with me or replied to anything I've said about you. What's up?

Also this Wisdom wagon is horrible. Everyone on it gives me bad vibes.

[Elyse]

@Bulb
How is that a "weak defense" of Wisdom? He is my strongest townread and yes I am openly defending him. Stop misconstruing things.

[Elyse]

@Mastin
I asked you less then I thought I did but these were the posts addressed to you:

They tie into the others. Elyse shows a contradiction in mindset between 29 and 35, and then contradicts it again in 39, and AGAIN in 41. Yet once MORE in 45. To some extent in 65 and 81, though these get progressively weaker as time goes on. (133 is the last.)

You talk big but you have yet to actually show any proof besides quoting my ISO. (?)

She's been changing her story the whole time, growing increasingly desperate to get the attention off of her as the lie she's told has grown. All from a vote that was already bad.

When it actually

works

and people get off of her, it slowly begins to fade out of her iso, but lingers until the subject is dropped entirely.

How have I changed my story at all? I told the truth and have been the whole time. And I don't understand how the bolded is scummy. I don't know what "it" is but why would I, as town or scum, consistently bring up something that makes me look scummy? What you're saying just isn't true. It doesn't make sense for me to keep talking about something that makes me look bad (as any alignment) when it's being dropped entirely.

Now this is assuming that my vote on Bulb was actually bad and scummy, which it wasn't.

mastin just feels like that scum that is good with words and nobody suspects. He keeps saying things without explaining them and nobody cares to ask him to do so. Like his recent "flammus is scum if wisdom isn't", which is completely baseless but nobody is going to care about.

His concern about not wanting the day to end feels fake as he doesn't really try to interact with anyone.

I completely agree with this. I feel like we're on the same wavelength.

I've addressed things to mastin but he hasn't responded to them, despite saying no one is asking him anything. And that's such a stupid excuse anyway. It's your job to persuade people on your suspects and convince them why you're right. It's not anyone else's job to get that info from you. Do it yourself or shut up. It just seems like a convenient excuse to avoid giving reasons for your horrible, horrible reads.

[Elyse]

@Mollie
I can be convinced of ETL-scum. I like your reasoning but I need more because I don't feel like she's caught up with the thread yet.

[Elyse]

If Wisdom is ever in danger of actually being lynched, then yes, I will provide a bunch of reasons and whatnot, but I don't need to right now. You are looking for reasons that aren't there.

And how is saying "I can be convinced of ETL-scum" scummy? People say that all the time. It means that I can see where Mollie is coming from but want more reasons.

[Elyse]

No, it's actually

I want mollie to give better reasons for ETL-scum

. Mollie is a very helpful/good player if she's on your side, and I feel like her avoidances of the Sakura and Bulb wagons are strange. She would rather go for a non-present lurker, and I dislike her vote on Wisdom. Her elaborating on ETL will help me determine my read on her as well, since right now, it's leaning scum.

And it's pretty fucking stupid for me, as scum, to ask for reasons and just sheep them. It might avoid accountability but I'm also a mindless sheep whereas Mollie can back up her reasons.

[Elyse]

Usually I can tell it's you because you don't capitalize but I could be wrong sometimes.

I do agree that ETL is scummy but I think she hasn't really caught up with the game yet so unless you have something that is irrelevant to that she gets a pass for now. That was my whole point of asking you for more stuff on her.

And yes I've been saying Bulb scum since his ridiculous vote on me at the beginning and his play has been consistently scummy since then.

[Elyse]

@ETL
I'm not defending you. You're leaning scum for me. But it's similar to people suspecting Antihero for lurking when there were obvious RL issues. Same reason I'm questioning the scumreads on you.

[Elyse]

Wis how can you say anything about Elyse with any certainty?

I dislike this a lot.

First, you ignore my post in response to you.
Second, you don't question Wisdom's townread on you and instead question his townread on me when *admittedly*, you have been lurky and scummy. The question should be how he can say anything about

you

with any certainty.

[Elyse]

Yeah what Sakura asked.

[Elyse]

wut

[Elyse]

Why didn't you ask both? Why didn't you respond to my post?

[Elyse]

So are you guys asking why I'm townreading ETL or are you just asking ETL why she didn't ask that

Mostly the second but feel free to explain the first too.

Why didn't you ask both? Why didn't you respond to my post?

Because I wanted to see what he had to say about you first. As far as responding to your post, I'm not sure what I was supposed to say. You explained yourself and it made sense. Am I supposed to acknowledge every post every one makes? If it makes sense, then it doesn't necessarily need a response. I'm going to poke at things that don't make sense to me.

If it made sense then why did you ask Wisdom how he could be certain of my alignment? It doesn't fit.

[Elyse]

That's what I mean by lurky.

And if my response made sense, why is it so absurd for Wisdom to have a townread on me?

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

[Elyse]

I fully expect to die tonight anyway

See? You continue saying nonsense that only stupid people would say. Why the fuck would any scum in this game kill you? Not only you're the scummiest person, but you're not a PR and you're the lowest rank. No way scum are ever touching you. You know this perfectly well. Yet you act like you don't. You're not stupid, so you're scum.


The rest of your post are repeats of the bullshit you have said earlier, so I won't bother. You're scum and you need to die right now.

This. So much this.

@Fitz
Bulb is scummier than Sakura. I still think Sakura is scum and not just dumbtown like others seem to think. In the game I played with her previously, she was town and dug herself into a hole pretty quickly. She seemed upset and said it was unlike her; she just couldn't get into the game. Here, she doesn't care at all and just seems to blindly follow others. She has pride in herself as town, and I feel like she wouldn't as scum because her scumhunting isn't genuine anyway.

Also, this whole RVS thing is literally retarded. For the millionth time, being the third on a RVS wagon that is going nowhere is not opportunistic. I wasn't voting her for serious reasons. Even if you don't believe it was a reaction test (which it was), then you at least have to realize "Self votes are scum!!!" is NOT an acceptable reason that I would actually use to jump on a wagon.

[Elyse]

You are NOT addressing what I am saying. I am NOT using RVS as my shield.

[Elyse]

You are a scumbag
You can't address what I'm saying
You are acting stupid on purpose
Goodbye

[Elyse]

Ok Sakura is prob town but Bulb is still scum.

Wisdom, I don't see scum-Sakura doing what she's doing right now.

[Elyse]

Actually nvm

Unvote

Not willing to lynch a claimed Lt on D1...

Are you telling me you want a third person to claim today? That's a third of the playerlist.

[Elyse]

Yes I read your last post.

I thought you were off of lynching yourself. My mistake.

[Elyse]

@Nacho
I didn't ignore your Sakura read. I just didn't see it/didn't think it was worth commenting on. Idr.

Also, yes, I suggest lynching Bulb.

[Elyse]

@Bulb and mollie
Stop. This isn't helping.

Bulb you're being stupid. Mollie is not in any sort of "paranoid" state and you wanting to "talk to Nacho" is silly. You should be able to convince more than just Nacho you are town,

if you actually are town.

Mollie, stop fueling his fire. He's scum desperately trying to avoid being lynched. He's riling up emotions.

@Nacho

This reaction is not town-Sakura either.

I love being right

hey wisdom
who can read sakura like a fucking book?
<<<<this guy

who thought sakura was scum in monks and masons in the dead thread when she was horrendously and obviously town?
you

I know you have the tendency to tunnel.
And I know you get under her skin.
But if you try to scumread someone who I can read well and you can't read worth a shit, we're going to get into this horrible shitfest instead of just rolling the game together like we usually do. Please, please, please leave her to me.

Is this what you want me to comment on? I don't know what to say. I think Sakura is town now but I wasn't going to let mollie's read affect that just because she can read him "like a fucking book".

[Elyse]

^^LMAO

Also, Bulb, YES I HAVE PLAYED WITH MOLLIE. NOW THAT I'VE SEEN HER SCUM AND TOWN GAMES I LIKE TO THINK I CAN READ HER PRETTY ACCURATELY. She's town. And she's not paranoid. And it's silly to try to only talk to ONE player. That's my point.

Good bye.

[Elyse]

Once a wagon has 3 or more people, RVS is essentially over,

NO IT'S NOT.

I don't know where you got this from, whether you pulled it out of your ass or copied it from someone else, but it's not true. You keep trying to paint me as scummy by breaking

your

rules when they aren't everyone else's.

And I'm not going to quote mollie's posts to show why she's not this paranoid lunatic. Sure, she might be a little nervous committing to a wagon and such as most players are, but she's not in a state that you can't talk or reason with her.

As far as silly versus scummy, I've already explained why your play is scummy so now it's just silly to me.

[Elyse]

Once a wagon has 3 or more people, RVS is essentially over,

NO IT'S NOT.

I don't know where you got this from, whether you pulled it out of your ass or copied it from someone else, but it's not true. You keep trying to paint me as scummy by breaking

your

rules when they aren't everyone else's.

RVS is a tool to help us start scumhunting. If a wagon has built up to that level, people are obviously scumhunting. RVS

is not

some mystical other section of the game. It is part of the same game, and scum can and will be caught during this time. And I'm getting fed up with this growing trend of "You can't call me out on that. It was RVS!" Bull crap. I can and I will, and if you can't understand the basics and purpose of RVS, don't blame me for calling you scum when you hide behind RVS like your own personal shield.

You didn't respond to my point.

And I'm not going to quote mollie's posts to show why she's not this paranoid lunatic.

I never called her a lunatic. Now you're putting words in my mouth. If you want to tell me that she is not paranoid, you're going to have to show me why you're thinking that. Otherwise, quit buddying up to her.

I know. You implied it though. And I'm not buddying up to her, just calling out your scumminess.

Sure, she might be a little nervous committing to a wagon and such as most players are

She's not nervous committing to a wagon. What gave you that idea?

Well she unvoted you and then revoted you and that's the only paranoia I saw. I also see she's paranoid of you being town but has come to the conclusion that even if you're town, then you're useless. What other paranoia is there?

but she's not in a state that you can't talk or reason with her.

Are we even reading the same game? She's shut me down every single time. Seriously, this buddying of yours is ridiculous.

No she hasn't. You have been belittling her and not trying to talk to her. And again, I'm not buddying to mollie. If I was, it would be more subtle than this.

As far as silly versus scummy, I've already explained why your play is scummy so now it's just silly to me.

Nice save.

How is that a save? It's the truth.

[Elyse]

Idk but I'm done now.

Just a sidenote for future reference, Bulba, emotional does not equal paranoid.

[Elyse]

@Fitz
If you are treating Bulb's claim like a PR (saying we should give PRs a free pass for today), then why the hell is your vote on an actual claimed PR?

[Elyse]

Oh. I didn't even realize that.

Oops.

I read mollie's post but it just didn't register.

[Elyse]

I refuse to vote for Wisdom.

He's my strongest townread.

He found scum and is actively pursuing his read. I don't understand how this is scummy.

[Elyse]

I dont like fitz anymore. Will explain after work but his posts on this page and last page are whats pinging me.

Funny. I actually like his posts on these pages either.

Although I dislike ThAd. And not just because he wants to wagon me. I feel like he wants to keep both Wis and Bulb alive to create conflict. Either both are town or one is his buddy and ThAd knows that it's only a matter of time before his buddy is lynched. It's a cop-out.

[Elyse]

*better
not either

[Elyse]

Deadline is in 21 hours.

I feel like scum is trying to ride this out.

[Elyse]

Move sakura and fitz above thad and that's mine

GET OUT OF MY HEAD MAN

[Elyse]

His explanation for voting Sakura seemed legit and I like his recent posting.

[Elyse]

I like that he is willing to admit to his mistakes and does not feel deterred in expressing a scumread on you despite you (50 shades) being an almost universal townread. His posts have been genuine.

[Elyse]

Ok so obv not lynching Sakura.

I still townread Wisdom hard despite him being wrong. I also continue townreading ETL, though not nearly as much, since she had the same feeling. She could be scum trying to keep a scapegoat alive, but meh.

The narrows the lynchpool to {ThAd, mastin, fitz}

Rereading over the night, my town feelings toward fitz aren't as strong as I thought. I still think his reason for voting Sakura despite claiming a PR was valid (he hadn't realized she claimed PR), but that doesn't make him town, just not hypocritical scum.

ThAd and mastin are similar to me. Both WK'd Bulb, IMO, moreso mastin. However, mastin had more of a consistent read so if anyone, I'd like to vote for ThAd. After a brief viewing of his ISO, he has barely produced content. He stated that he wanted to "turn the boat all the way around" and lynch me rather than Bulb/Wis. This is after he said previously he's not confident enough to call me scum. He hasn't really expressed any reads on anyone besides me, but even then, it's a very weak one.

VOTE: ThAdmiral

P-edit:
ETL, why does someone on the wagon HAVE to be scum?

Because if anyone is, it's you.

Also what do you mean "that makes sense from mollienacho?" They were commander, not captain. And how would a voyeur clear make ThAd town at all? It just means no roles were performed on him, correct?

[Elyse]

I'm confused.

[Elyse]

So we outted a PR for nothing?

Well at least we know mastin is town.

So the scumteam is fitz/ThAd with an outside shot ETL.

@Mastin
I highly doubt Wisdom is scum.

[Elyse]

Why not ThAd?

I suspect him more than fitz.

[Elyse]

I thought ThAd replaced Flammus.

I did like DB. So yeah I can agree with a fitz lynch.

VOTE: Havingfitz

[Elyse]

True.

But why would mastin, as scum, out himself as a PR to get a lynch on Sakura, who would flip town anyway and then crucify mastin?

Unless mastin and Sakura are scum and planned an elaborate double bus.

But now that there was a mod error, it means it wasn't a double bus and mastin really thought that Sakura was lying and Sakura wasn't lying.

So I'm confident calling them both town, along with Wisdom.

[Elyse]

No.

I'm not saying you're scum.

I think it's fitz/ThAd but if it's not then it's you.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ThAdmiral

I do think going after me/ETL is strange. I still think it's him/havingfitz.

[Elyse]

Daniel Bryan was town, so nope.

He was townish but nothing in his ISO makes me believe there's no way he's scum.

@Sakura
The jailkeeper gives us time.

[Elyse]

This game is not over.

We have two basically conftown: Sakura and mastin.

Wisdom is town. I'm town. ETL is probtown.

If people can't agree on ThAd vs Wis vs ETL vs me, can we all compromise on fitz?

[Elyse]

K cool.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: havingfitz

[Elyse]

Because mostly everyone agrees on fitz.

[Elyse]

Well ThAd doesn't so yeah.

That's the angle I'm looking at right now.

[Elyse]

I am completely fine with voting fitz or ThAd. Those are the only two I'm willing to lynch.

But Wisdom doesn't want ThAd. Idk where Sakura's head is at. Mastin wants ThAd though.

[Elyse]

@fitz
Do you have any specific questions you want to ask me?

@Wis
I hate your vote on mastin. It doesn't make sense for him to come forward as JK as scum because Sakura is town.

Just because fitz actually decides to post does not mean he's town.

[Elyse]

K cool.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: havingfitz

Yeah, genius. Tbh I still think he's somehow scum, it just doesn't make any sense how he defended Bulba.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fitz

Wow small games really get to Poe quick don't they. If its out of you and fitz I definitely lean towards fitz.

I'm not liking this fitz push at all. It looks entirely too "convenient", if that makes sense. As if he's a mislynch the scum are hoping to quickly pop in on, to get a nice lylo ticket.

It's not convenient when people are showing opposition to it.

[Elyse]

Yes but I highly doubt they are.

[Elyse]

It doesn't make sense for him to come forward as JK as scum because Sakura is town.

Why?

So let's say that Sakura gets lynched. She flips town. Mastin was wrong. He gets lynched. Pushing something like that (wrong night action info, etc) on town is retarded.

Do you have any specific questions you want to ask me?

None come to mind at the moment. You me?

No not really.

Can the captain be scum in this setup?

Yes but I highly doubt they are.

Why? Why would a town Captain have his two remaining PRs target the same player?

So the town voyeur knows the other PR? To attempt to roleblock a kill?

[Elyse]

No.

I'm saying that if mastin was scum, it wouldn't make sense for him to push Sakura on bs like that when he knows she's town and he's A) going to get called out on it because she's town and she's not lying or B) going to get lynched if he manages to get her lynched.

[Elyse]

Sigh.

I don't know how to explain this better. Maybe I'm wrong.

Alright, let's assume Mastin is scum.

He jailkeeps ThAd and Sakura, the voyeur, gets no result on ThAd.

As scum, ThAd knows Sakura is town, so he knows that she's not lying to protect scum or anything. He also wants to keep his role hidden.

Why would he out his role just to pursue an unlikely mislynch that will only get him in trouble down the road?

[Elyse]

I understand.

I am just really confident in fitz/ThAd and I feel like people are shying away from it because it's too easy. Sometimes it just is that easy.

[Elyse]

Can't talk now and might not be able to tonight either...I do have a lot to say but I will say fitz is an even stronger scumread, and ETL is my strongest townread outside of Sakura/mastin. Wisdom is worrying me and he's being very contradictory.

[Elyse]

Good, you can hammer me then

I'm becoming more confident in mastin/Elyse by the minute

This is why I think you're scum.

You keep saying you want to die but are simultaneously pushing bs cases. It's like you give up when people don't listen to you because you know what you're saying is wrong.

P-edit: I don't think either of the PRs are scum. Why are you insisting they are?

It's also sooo scummy that you're being sticky with your ThAd read because his barely present replacement seemed town when you've townread ETL and I the whole game and you're switching because you can't get the lynch you want.

[Elyse]

No. Your "townread" on ThAd is bullshit. Having a strong read on someone is fine but Daniel Bryan was not town to the extent that you write ThAd's scummy slot off as town.

@Sakura
I'll look at your meta when I get home/have the time.

[Elyse]

I don't have time to make a long post today. However, if Sakura's situation is true

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wisdom

Please don't self hammer until I post.

[Elyse]

Wait.

I just had an epiphany. We don't have to lynch out of the PRs. Why? BECAUSE ONE OF THEM COULD BE THE CAPTAIN.

Bulba was lieutenant and follower. Sakura/mastin could be captain. It's not over.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: havingfitz

[Elyse]

ETL why are you posting elsewhere and not here

You're scaring me

[Elyse]

Do you agree with my epiphany?

[Elyse]

It means that we don't have to lynch in {Wisdom, Sakura, mastin} because the captain could be anyone.

[Elyse]

Why didn't you bring that up then

[Elyse]

Gah.

I'm trying to trick the scumteam here and you're ruining it.

[Elyse]

Welp.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wisdom

[Elyse]

Well if you didn't say "I'm not the captain" then maybe it would've worked.

Whatever. I'm just trying to do SOMETHING to change this situation.

[Elyse]

You're ignoring logic Wisdom.

Nvm you're scum.

[Elyse]

Okay, ETL.

Oh good lord that has to be the scummiest response to "what are your reads" I have ever seen. "Elyse and I don't know"?

You can be a stronger townread. Your reasoning's good, your logic is solid, and you bring up excellent points like this.

To the "mastin wouldn't claim JK as scum" believers - once again, there was no reason not to claim when he saw an opening to incriminate a townie and quickly get to lylo. Even if he got lynched for that, it would grant his buddy two shots at the captain.

Except that's not really true at all.

-Sakura claims a result that I know can't be true.
-A scum-me knows that either Sakura is lying, or the mod screwed up.
-A scum-me is presumably not scum with Sakura.
-Thus, a scum-me knows that a town-Sakura has no reason to lie.
-Thus, a scum-me would know that it was a mod screw-up.
-Thus, a scum-me would correctly make the call that the mod would clarify the error, which would make outting myself be pointless and counter-intuitive.
* You can argue that a scum-me would rely on the mod not clarifying the error, but in that case, it's a 1-for-1 trade. I don't believe in sacrificing myself to get into lylo as scum. I haven't ever since the disastrous 1v1 in Mafia on Werewolf Island. I never go into 1v1s willingly as scum. EVER. If I enter into them, it's because I was forced into them. So this one falls apart via meta.

The theory of me being scum holds no water. Occam's Razor applies. Look at the above scenario required for me to be scum. It makes a lot of convoluted assumptions that build off of each other, to get progressively further away from reality.
Now look at the situation with me-as-town--
I saw Sakura claim a result that I know can't be true.
The thought of a mod error never occurs to me, and I jump straight to the conclusion that Sakura is lying. I act, immediately, on that impulse, because I'm dead-certain I've caught scum.

Wisdom's Mastin-is-scum violates just about every bit of logic in existence.

@Wisdon

This logic. The logic I've been explaining to you all game.

Can you please open your eyes and see this? I really don't think mastin is scum.

[Elyse]

I'm not WKing him. You are being a stubborn idiot who is refusing to believe he's fucking obvtown. I mean seriously. You were completely wrong about Bulb, why is it so unbelievable that you might be wrong about mastin?

[Elyse]

The only thing I see in his posts is obvscum.

You keep saying that but you never prove it and do not address the valid points brought to light about why you're wrong.

I think it's gotten to the point that you are so close to winning that you are willing to throw accusations everywhere and see what sticks.

[Elyse]

You keep saying that but you never prove it and do not address the valid points brought to light about why you're wrong.

I think it's gotten to the point that you are so close to winning that you are willing to throw accusations everywhere and see what sticks.

Wow it's like this is your first game with me. You expect me to prove stuff and it weirds you out that I play like this.

Bullshit.

Yes I expect you to prove stuff. Wtf is that? Are you trying to make excuses for yourself?

I want to lynch you for that alone.

[Elyse]

Are you on drugs?

Since when don't you prove stuff? Is that a new thing you're making up? You forget to send me the letter that you're retarded all of a sudden.

[Elyse]

You gave reasons for your votes and quoted stuff and said why it was scummy and responded to people who disagreed with you.

Here you are just screaming that mastin is obvscum, REFUSING to say why, and ignoring those who provide good evidence on the contrary.

And you expect me to townread you for that? Please.

[Elyse]

So do you get why we're not lynching elyse yet?

Get the fuck out of here.

[Elyse]

@fitz
@ThAd
One of you is prob his scumbuddy but please tell me that you scumread him after this. I bring up all these valid points and he ignores them and votes me after saying all game that we would lose if we lynched outside of the PRs.

This is a fucking joke.

[Elyse]

That completely contradicts your selfvote.

Goodbye caught scum.

[Elyse]

Oh so now you're going to retort like a five-year old? Cute.

Ok, run me through your logic here:

-We have to lynch out of {mastin, Wisdom, Sakura}
-mastin is scum
-I'm going to selfvote even though I'm town and we'll lose
-mastin is still obvscum with Elyse
-Elyse says mastin is town
-I'm going to listen to her and vote for her

On what planet does that make any sense? It only makes sense if you are scum trying to get a mislynch so you can NK the captain and win. I'm one of the three people that could possibly be the captain, and you want to get me lynched.

[Elyse]

Gonna keep it cool. Not gonna blow up. Keep it cool, Elyse. He's obvscum now. You did a good job. Keep it cool.

[Elyse]

Then why won't you respond to my posts?

[Elyse]

So what happens when I flip town?

[Elyse]

That's not a scum question.

It can be asked as any alignment.

I want to know what your gameplan is for when I flip town. Who is scum?

[Elyse]

ETL PLEASE COME IN HERE AND TELL ME I'M NOT CRAZY

[Elyse]

Why do you keep posting

[Elyse]

Because you said you weren't going to respond to me

[Elyse]

[Elyse]

I'm not panicking. The three people voting me are coincidentally my scumpool, so I'm confident the players off my wagon will see that you're obvscum.

And fitz and ThAd haven't weighed in on your contradictions and fallacies and refusal to post substance, so yeah.

[Elyse]

Just like you did with mastin? Who's suddenly not scum?

And unlike you, I've proven WHY you're obvscum.

[Elyse]

No it doesn't. I already said that.

That's such a bullshit scum excuse anyway.

[Elyse]

Yeah they do

[Elyse]

Good scum do that, yes.

But others, instead of adequately explaining their scummy posts, logical fallacies, and refusal to explain things, just say "Oh I do that as town."

[Elyse]

YES

[Elyse]

[Elyse]

So Elyse, describe the panic of being at L-1 when there's this so scummy player in the game - and after you were so sure he was getting lynched suddenly you are not so sure anymore! How does that feel?

PRAISE JESUS

[Elyse]

<3 Sakura <3

[Elyse]

Lmao you're such a hypocrite.

[Elyse]

Yeah you are. You refuse to answer my question and say it's scummy but then ask the same thing to Sakura.

[Elyse]

[Elyse]

No, ETL, please read them. They're really short posts but they show how obvious scumWis is.

[Elyse]

ETL, take your time and read through the last few pages. You don't even have to do it today. But please let us know when you are going to hammer if you are going to.

[Elyse]

No, Wisdom. I actually want her to read it instead of just hammering out of frustration because you have been insanely scummy the past few pages. You should want that too if you think I'm scum.

[Elyse]

LMFAO LMFAO NOW THAD IS SCUM AFTER YOU SAID DB WAS SOOO TOWN?!?!?!?!

Ahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahhahahahaa

[Elyse]

Well I wouldn't care if she hammered YOU out of frustration. But I'm confident enough in my scumread on you to have her read our interactions and decide for herself.

Can you say the same?

P-edit:
Your fake reads suck. That's my point. GTFO.

[Elyse]

No I don't.

You weren't anything like are now.

@ETL
Even if you ignore his hypocrisy and read changes (which you shouldn't), he refuses to explain himself and his logic doesn't make sense as town.

P-edit:
I'm not going to repeat myself but even if that was true (you changing your reads like 80 times a day), that's not even close to a quarter of why you're scum.


P-edit:
Is that a joke? You literally called yourself a death tunneler and death tunneled on Bulba yesterday for the entire day.

[Elyse]

I'm not meta hunting. Meta is not that strong and no amount of meta can excuse the gigantic case I have on you.

[Elyse]

NO ITS NOT.

Seriously get out of here and let other people weigh in.

[Elyse]

No.

We're cluttering up the thread and making it annoying to read. We can continue later but I don't want people to become frustrated and give up as they read.

This is my last post for a while.

[Elyse]

Alternatively...

@ Elise: if wisdom gets lynched today and flips town will you vote yourself tomorrow? If you are so sure he's scum this shouldn't be a problem for you.

Yes.

Did you read the last few pages?

[Elyse]

Sooo what's the plan?

Still think that scum is ThAd/fitz.

[Elyse]

There's something wrong with Elyse. I can't explain it. Maybe it's just paranoia but it's been bothering me for a couple RL days now. Something wrong there.

Ok.

Not to be rude here but you need something stronger than this. This is MyLo and you're calling me scum because of paranoia? Come on now.

Let's go off everyone's primary suspicions and form a list then.

Sakura: ETL/Elyse
ETL: Fitz/Elyse
Mastin: Fitz/Thad
Fitz: Mastin/???
ThAd: ???/???
Elyse: ???/???

Also im just gonna say as long as fitz keeps his vote if both him and mastin are town we already lost, so we gotta act fast

PEd: Elyse for all the rucus on D1 with Bulba... she also seems to have toned down a bit during D2 and she's barely been here D3. Tho ThAd also fits this picture, and there being 2 scum, hmm... maybe it could be Elyse and Thad after all.

Here's the thing: Me, Mastin, ETL, fitz have all been online at the same time, if fitz is town and mastin is town, there hasnt been a QH so it's impossible for me and ETL to be scum together, and the only other possible choice is ThAd/Elyse.

How can you scumread me for the ruckus with Bulba after Wisdom flipped town? I mean come on. And yes I've barely been here because I've been SWAMPED with work. I haven't been on MS much the past couple days. You can check all my games.

ThAd on the other hand...

Also can someone explain why we aren't having the captain reveal himself and the reasons for and against it?

So far it seems that the captain is ThAd or I. If you run one of us to L-1, we're going to claim anyway, so what's the point.

Also, I think fitz is scum sooooo much. Even moreso than ThAd. He's saying that mastin is scum but then says how it would be stupid for scum not to kill. How does that work exactly? Do you think mastin obeyed and jailed ETL and then tried to kill her?

VOTE: havingfitz

[Elyse]

Ok.

So who do you think is scum?

[Elyse]

Ok.

Well I'm also pretty sure fitz is scum. He contradicted himself by pushing mastin and then saying it'd be dumb for scum not to kill.

Regardless, I think he's scum with ThAd.

[Elyse]

I'm not the captain btw.

Why are people certain the captain is town? If it's elyse then I doubt that.

We need an answer to question of whether sakura would have seen the scum nightkill on etl even if he was jk'd. I don't see why scum would no kill in this position unless the captain is scum and was framing etl.

You have not given any reasons for your reads and you have not even showed any hesitance in your read on me which is throwing up MAJOR red flags here.

You've been coasting by in this game calling me scum and not doing anything about it. That's a scum agenda. Town push for who they think is scum. Scum let mislynches go by and do not interject unless necessary. And look at you, interjecting when people are voting fitz. How convenient.

Also, since everyone else has said they are not:

I AM THE CAPTAIN

So here's my rationale behind what I did:
I thought ThAd was scum so I jailkept him N1. I had Sakura also target ThAd because there's no other use to that role and AFAIK she can't see the nightkill. I had a townread on her at that point so I was just making sure that she knew the other PR should the officers die without that knowledge out there (assuming that the game didn't end, of course)
I didn't think 50 shades was universal or obvtown. In fact, no one was, which was why I targeted who I thought was scum to block the kill rather than town.
I decided to jailkeep ETL for a couple reasons. First, I sent in the actions early on and wasn't around for the end of the day. I definitely would have changed it to jailkeeping me, but I made the right move anyway. My reasons then were that ETL seemed town and I had long suspected fitz/ThAd as the scumteam. With two officers down, I knew scum would be shooting for the captain, so that knocked out Sakura and mastin, leaving ETL, ThAd, fitz, and me. I was pretty confident in fitz/ThAd and knew they were trying to ML me, so I didn't think they would NK me. This left ETL.
As an added bonus, it confirmed mastin as town to me because as scum, he wouldn't have tried to kill ETL and obeyed the jailkeep. And if he no killed for some reason (I guess to set ETL up as scum?), then he would be pushing that angle. But he's not.

So yeah I am very confident in fitz/ThAd. It fits. They never targeted each other all game, and in a game with only 2 scum, I find that very likely.

[Elyse]

is that a lynch

[Elyse]

i want to know if the day is over yet before mastin posts his last thoughts since he's 99% going to die tonight

[Elyse]

but yeah i counted and i'm pretty sure that's a lynch

[Elyse]

me

[Elyse]

High-five mastin!

[Elyse]

That actually was a reaction test though.

A fake one.

But a planned fake one, if that makes sense.