Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[havingfitz]

hi guys

That was a hydra slip record.

WTF?

For confusing me (I do not like to be confused)...VOTE: Street Hassle

On a serious note...are there any hydras in this game?

[havingfitz]

Herself = Pirate Mollie and Desperado

Is that a problem Squirrel Girl? Also...do you have a preferred shorter username you go by?

[havingfitz]

Stopping in...haven't read since page 1. RL holiday weekend commitments taking priority.

Should have done this yesterday but consider me

v/la until Tuesday

.

[havingfitz]

I saw you fitz posting in the other thread pokes pokes.

I'm catching up in all my games today. Did you need me to announce it for you beyond the fact my v/LA was over today?

[havingfitz]

And on that note....UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

Catch up thoughts:

@ICE...Post's 13's "absolutely game changing" proclamation of something that should be apparent to anyone who reads the OP seems a bit over dramatic and ""helpful"".  Then it's compounded with the watch our voting timelines and taking a poll of timezones.  bleh.

@Street...what about desp/Herself is "looking pretty town?"

@Street...who is the town you told Mollie/Herself that you found?

@Banksys...why do you want people (or at least Street Hassle) keeping their town reads to themselves?  Was your issue with the way Street gave out her opinion or for something else?

Like ICE's Post 38.

@Street...could you elaborate on your Banksys scum read? (Same question to Orestes)

Like Garmr's Post 49.

The squirrel schtick is getting old.

@Herself...why is presenting one's self as a maleable "town?" player a good thing?  Do you know SQ is town?  Could she be scum that just doesn't want to commit and would rather sail safely under the radar by letting other's do the work?  Especially if that work is focused towards a mislynch?  And if she is in fact town...what if she is wrong about the "more forceful personality" that she decides is ton and follows along blindly on a scum driven wagon?  [I would also point out at further review that is doesn't appear as if SG is actually following anyone (let alone forceful town reads of hers) unless that describes ICE....who she has also voted for a time].

@ICE...I like to think I give content when I am not v/LA and I have something to contribute.  Neither of which has been the situation up to this point.

@mollie/herself...sorry to "underwhelm," especially in comparison to your contribution up to this point.  As for Sakura's(??) name alternative post.  I thought it was amusing but I didn't feel the need to comment on it.  She answered my page one question...bravo.

wrt desp/herself's Post's 130,...I agree with the comments on Orestes and Empire but the non RVS comment on me could use some explaining (which I see is discussed later).

I find the over analysis and suspicion regarding to first to posts to be amusing and a significant reach. 

#6...as I was not aware Street was a fferly+Empire hydra..seeing a quote of a post (that did not exist) by a player not even in the game was confusing...as I pointed out.  And as we were on the subject of hydras and I only recognized 2-3 players...the "Are there any hydras" was a legitimate question that iirc I ask on occasion.  So post 1 over analysis on me seems ridiculous and malicious.

#9...I was curious as to the reason for SG's facepalm at the fact there was a mollie/desperado hydra.  Anything brought up in this game is subject to discussion so my curiousity as to SG's reaction was genuine.  It was not to undermine anyone.  As has not subsequently been the result of the question....except back on me.  Ridiculous again.

@Herself...why are you talking about policy lynches?  Is it your goal to achieve one?  On lurkers?  And if so...which one?  The ~one who claimed v/LA or the ones who haven't posted at all?  Please explain.  And what was the point of providing an intro to one of my games?  It seems like you are making a lot of effort out of very little content. 

For that matter...Street...can you explain what your link to our first game indicated to you? 

Bullshit  VOTE: Herself  Call it growing suspicions as I've read through capped by the policy lynch crap and over analysis.  I was leaning towards Herself anyway but feel free in include a dash of OMGUS.

More bullshit...encouraging votes on my because my v/LA is over (at 12:13 AM?)  WTF?  My v/LA wasn't a pumpkin waiting for the stoke of midnight.  Some people are asleep at 0013 on a Monday night. 

More bullshit yet again...SG is absolutely right that you are trying to bully her into putting a baseless vote on someone who has been v/LA and had, despite your watching of the clock, not returned.  And for you to bring up the fact you characterized SG as maleable to strong personalities earlier (a point which I already showed was not evident in this game) in some hopes that she would roll over and go...Oh yeah...I am maleable so I'll do what you say" is absurd.

Mod....

doesn't Quadraxis need a prod as well?

Par for the course for Herself.

Annnnd last but not least....I was looking forward to Orestes' "next post" from Sunday night with the promise of their Banksys case...but sadly that will continue to have to wait.

Players I suspect atm: Herself, Orestes, the non-posters.

Players I'm leaning town on atm: Garmr, SG, ICE....Kid A

Everyone else null/TBD.  The most significant of those being Street who I kept going back and forth on as I read. 

That's me caught up.  For those of you who use post counts to scum hunt I will say this.  I do 95% of my posting over the phone (so typically light on content...barring the occasional wall exchange and catch up post) and weekend posting is out of the ordinary for me.  C'est la vie.

[havingfitz]

....Kid A

Is the Kid A part an amusing joke, or are you serious? Because if you're serious I really need to bottle whatever it is he does and save it for whenever I'm scum.

Well...I didn't realize they only had 3 posts but yeah. I'm leaning town on them. As I read through the game, whenever I came to a Kid A post I either found myself having thought the same things or they made sense. So yeah...early read is a town read.

---

Sorry mod...missed that point.

[havingfitz]

You think ICE is town, 1/3 of Kid A's posts are attacks on ICE. Are you just really happy about the Orestes attack? And if you are, why not vote Orestes?

At the time he made his first post comment on ICE I was of the same mindset. As my catch up indicates iirc. 5-7 pages later and I feel better about ICE. And I haven't said I was real happy about anything. I'm just saying I found myself thinking among the same lines as Kid A.

As for Orestes...I'm not voting him because he's not my main suspect.

[havingfitz]

I need to catch up in another game before I get back in here. Might be back in here today. TBD.

I haven't looked the games over that have been referenced but my initial question would be were they games I was in from the start (vs replacing in) and were an equal number of town games referred to.

FYI...I do the catch ups the same way in all my games. And I typically catch flak for them in all my games. Basically they are my way of conveying my thoughts on certain game events/comments and are a way for other players to have a sense of where my heads at.wrt suspicions and/or town reads.

Back when I'm caught up for in my other game.

[havingfitz]

While it's on my mind, some games that bear looking at if they haven't been looked at already (not going to try to link to the games from my phone....just look in my topics and scroll down)...

Town game (Mini 1645) modded by StKerrigan.  Several catch up posts and a joking RVS combined with a hydra question.

Scum game (Game of Things) modded by Guy Named Riggs. (Catch up)

Town game (Mini 1480) modded by Antagon.  Replaced in but I'm finding most of my games are like that.  Catch up post.

While most of my games at some point or another have my catch up posts I do see a trend the further I go back where older games seem to have more content and as time has gone by the catch ups have become more succinct.  More a result of increased phone posting and lack of time than alignment.

OK...NOW back to my other game.

[havingfitz]

I could be at L-1. Not sure. If people have any doubts on their suspicions towards me (which I fail to see) I would appreciate an unvote. More than a few people haven't contributed squat yet and I'm being rung up based on my two 1st posts (stupid), my catch up post (standard) and meta o. The aforementioned non items.

tl:dr;

someone please fcuking unvote me till I can address my accusers

[havingfitz]

I think you're at L-4 if the count at the top of the page is accurate

Ffs....I think I was confusing this game with another.

[havingfitz]

- Sheeps all my townreads

I don’t even recall what your townreads are so I’m not sure I could be sheeping you. Given your push on me I doubt you can recognize town so I’ll try to avoid sheeping you if at all possible.

- Agrees with me that scum are likely among the minimal-post group

Once again…the universe of mafia revolves around Herself. Me saying I suspected the pool of 4-5 non-posters (along with the two suspects I actually named) indicates I could see one of them being scum. Big revelation there. One thing I’m not interested in though is policy lynching any of them. That’s an easy scummy way to a D1 mislynch tyvm.

- Thinks I'm scum because...?

He says he "was leaning towards us anyway but feel free to include a dash of OMGUS" but I think it's the whole fucking shaker's worth.

When I’m town and people make shit cases on me you can bet I will have OMGUS sentiments towards them. But that wasn’t the only reason I gave. Nice misrep. Your poor over analysis of my first two posts (ridiculous) and criticism of my standard catch up posts (null) are what have me suspecting you.

Why am I scum for overanalyzing your first two posts but you have nothing to say about Street's analysis of the same posts? Especially when they were the ones who asked me to provide the analysis in the first place?

Well…I said I was going back and forth on Street. Street acknowledged (and I assumed accepted) my explanation of post #6. I can’t argue an opinion that I was more open in some game. ???? I’ve provided a reference to another game (I’m town in) where I do an joking RVS followed immediately by a hydra question. I’ve been dealing with you.

Fitz said the same thing. "I'm not going to be able to post much content because the majority of my access is via phone" is crazy scummy.

How the fcuk is my availability on the site…and the means with which I access the site indicative of alignment? It's the same regardless of the game. BS

what if I told you that fitz's vote on me is the safest vote he can possibly make since he has voted me in nearly every single game we have ever been in so there is zero accountability there?

How is voting you safe? You seem to be getting a lot of town assessment your way. If I wanted to go with a safe vote I would have pushed a policy lynch on a lurker. Get it?

Also….please back up the “voted you in nearly every single game” accusation. I can think of maybe 3 games we’ve been in (not counting this) and I think I have voted you in the last 2 (including this). And how does that = zero accountability? If I support your lynch and you are town it looks bad on me and if I support your lynch and you are scum…it looks good on me. So WTF?

when I looked at fitz's posts in 2 rooms they seemed really different than what he has posted here, completely different tone but desp is right there are a lot of similarities between this game and castle. his vote on us is predictable I even told desp before the game started that is what he was going to do.

Once again….how was my voting you predictable? You saying you came into this game with a preconceived notion of what I would do (please prove the history you refer to earlier) shows me you came in with a preconceived view towards me which I suspect is guiding your actions/suspicions towards me.

I could care less about the town reads some people are giving Herself. Her case/push on me is complete bullocks.

And WTF is Orestes? He’d be my second option atm.

GoodnightZzzzzzzzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

desp/Herself:

Wrt Pos 331 - 1) I didn't say because you were voting me,  I said because of your "push" on me.  2) as I've said before...I didn't recall who your town reads were so how could I be sheeping you.  And

if having the same town reads is a reason not to suspect someone...then why the fcuk are you suspecting me?

  It's seems hypocritical of you.  We have/had the same town reads so I can't suspect you but you can suspect me....got it.  Mind you I don't think it matters (similar town reads) but since you are bringing it up..........????

And when is anyone defending themself ever not viewed as self centered?  You've jumped into this game with a preconceived opinion towards me (that you did not address) pushing ridiculous points based on my first two posts and I've had to deal with it since then.  Duh-herrrrr.

Wrt Post 332 - You're starting to blend with Strret in my head.  The subject of my catch up posts has been discussed between the two of you and you have provided links.  Fine...I was wrong. 

So you're saying your vote on me (at least initially) is based entirely on my first 2 posts of the game?

  If so that's even worse reasoning than with my catch up post analysis included. 

Wrt Post 333 - When I mentioned the phone posting it was at the end of my catch up.  It was not "pre-emptive"...it was because people were getting annoyed at the lack of posting and lurkers which between the holiday weekend AND my usual phone posting included me.  The FYI was telling it like it is.  Search phone in my posts and you'll get over 100 hits.  I don't always enter a game making  excuses for phone posting but when I find it's limiting me (or being pointed out that my posting is absent) I point it out.  My phone predominant phone posting is a fact and not a tell.  For you to say my FYI is scummy is making something out of nothing.  Kind of like my first two posts.

Wrt Post 334 - It is complete bullocks.  Swap my catch up posts with the "phone posting disclaimer" suspicions.  Excellent scumhunting (not).

Wrt Post 335 - In addition to the Post 333 response above....what were you expecting?  A standard disclaimer in ever game I play?  I never said i do that.  What I did say is that I do most of my posting over the phone and that IS the case.  As evidenced by the mention of phones over 100 times in my posting history.  You should be able to deduce it.  Sorry if my pointing it out confused you.

For the sake of argument and so that you can get support for your suspicions towards me...how about you summarize your reasons for suspecting me?  If it's clear to everyone else (including me) then I can responded (hopefully without player dyslexia) and others can establish or refine their opinions. 

[havingfitz]

desp/Herself:
 
Wrt Pos 331 - 1) I didn't say because you were voting me,  I said because of your "push" on me.  2) as I've said before...I didn't recall who your town reads were so how could I be sheeping you.  And

if having the same town reads is a reason not to suspect someone...then why the fcuk are you suspecting me?

  It's seems hypocritical of you.  We have/had the same town reads so I can't suspect you but you can suspect me....got it.  Mind you I don't think it matters (similar town reads) but since you are bringing it up..........????

You told me that I obviously can't identify town this game because I was wrong about you--even though we had the same town reads at the time.  So if your accusation was true (that I couldn't identify town) then you were also condemning your own reads.  The fact is that, in your eyes, my being right about 4 town and wrong about 1 town = completely unable to identify town because you were the one I was wrong about.  That's the problem.

When I made the statement I didn’t realize our town reads were the same….and as I’ve said, if you put weight in to the fact at least 4 of our reads were in agreement at that point and question me for suspecting you nonetheless….why doesn’t that same skepticism apply to you who suspects me despite having similar reads?  To me that seems odd.  
 
 

Wrt Post 332 - You're starting to blend with Strret in my head.  The subject of my catch up posts has been discussed between the two of you and you have provided links.  Fine...I was wrong. 

So you're saying your vote on me (at least initially) is based entirely on my first 2 posts of the game?

  If so that's even worse reasoning than with my catch up post analysis included.

No.  It's partially on your opening posts, and mostly on your reaction to our accusations.  I said as much in the post that started this part of the conversation.

Bullshit.  You were saying your vote on me wasn’t random (ergo it was serious) before I began defending myself.  You’ve only recently added the reaction is scummy stuff. 
 
And while we’re on that subject…how can you say I’m reacting differently here?  You say in those games I was “very direct with my rebuttals “ and “he knows the accusation is bullshit and he’s gonna tell you why goddamnit.”  You’re saying my defending of myself in this game has not been direct?  I have not called the accusations against me bullshit?  And I’ve failed to tell you why?  TOWN….please giv this a read.  Also…lol…I just realized what I started this reply with.   
 

Wrt Post 333 - When I mentioned the phone posting it was at the end of my catch up.  It was not "pre-emptive"...it was because people were getting annoyed at the lack of posting and lurkers which between the holiday weekend AND my usual phone posting included me.  The FYI was telling it like it is.  Search phone in my posts and you'll get over 100 hits.  I don't always enter a game making  excuses for phone posting but when I find it's limiting me (or being pointed out that my posting is absent) I point it out.  My phone predominant phone posting is a fact and not a tell.  For you to say my FYI is scummy is making something out of nothing.  Kind of like my first two posts.

I did search phone in the two completed town games that have been linked in this game, and you didn't give excuses for your lack of content in either of them.

Cool….so you’re cherry picking games and basing the phone posting thing on a limited sample.  Like I said (read the first portion of my Post 335 quote below) about disclaimers.
 
 

Wrt Post 335 - In addition to the Post 333 response above....what were you expecting?  A standard disclaimer in ever game I play?  I never said i do that.  What I did say is that I do most of my posting over the phone and that IS the case.  As evidenced by the mention of phones over 100 times in my posting history.  You should be able to deduce it.  Sorry if my pointing it out confused you.
 
For the sake of argument and so that you can get support for your suspicions towards me...how about you summarize your reasons for suspecting me?  If it's clear to everyone else (including me) then I can responded (hopefully without player dyslexia) and others can establish or refine their opinions. 

I really can't be any clearer than the posts that you are responding to here.  Why are you asking me to summarize my case when we just got done going over it point by point?  It hasn't changed.

I did not find it clear and I thought it would be in the best interests of town both from 1) my efforts to clear my name and 2) your efforts to bring suspicion on me.
 
So my revised summary of your suspicions on me is:
1) my first two posts…which has been discussed in detail and come across by most iirc as baseless and
2) my reaction (which came after you had deemed the vote on me serious and from what I can see…seems consistent with other games were…as town…I got embroiled in lengthy exchange to defend myself).
 
So IMO it’s really just the first 2 posts. 
 

Do you have any other reads?  What do you think about Reg?  Milked?  TvK?  Whatever the hell Quad just did?

Aside from my town reads…which probably aren’t as strong as they were when I first gave them…my thoughts on the players you list are:
 

Reg?

  - I don’t recall forming an opinon on Banksys but I’ve liked what I have seen so far from Regfan.  Lean town.

Milked?

  - I do not like that he has posted so little.  Off the top of my head I couldn’t even tell you what he has posted.  Null to suspect I guess.  I would need to look over again before laying a vote on him though.

TvK?

  - I have no opinion.  I know he has posted more than most of the “lurkers” but for some reason he hasn’t astood out either way to me.  Solid null.

Whatever the hell Quad just did?

 – Other than what the mod left of Quadz post I have no clue.  He has all of two posts on the site and was apparently v/LA (pm to mod?).  I do not like what his first contribution is but can’t decide whether it’s more likely to come from scum (as if he was too new for the site/game and didn’t know wtf to do) or town (as if he was too new for the site/game and didn’t know wtf to do).  So null as well I guess.  Not a big fan though.

And bonus T S O

– Outside of Herself and Orestes T S O is probably the player giving off the most negative vibes IMO.  Doesn’t look like he is making any effort and the calling me scum (for no reason) and voting a town read seems disconnected.  Like he doesn’t have to put in any effort because he’s not really looking for scum.  Though not voting what I would assume is your prime suspect is not that unusual…is it Herself?
 
I do not see anyone else voting Herself (some some reason beyond me!!!??) and I’ve made my points crystal clear wrt to Herself and their case on me.  Can lead a town to scum but can't make them lynch.  UNVOTE:
 
I’ll wait a little bit longer for Orestes to post (or get replaced) to see how those suspicions develop.  Still time.
 
VOTE: T S O

P.edit...Kid's last post drops him a bit in my view. No posting followed finally by a post that says nothing.

[havingfitz]

When I made the statement I didn’t realize our town reads were the same

….and as I’ve said, if you put weight in to the fact at least 4 of our reads were in agreement at that point and question me for suspecting you nonetheless….why doesn’t that same skepticism apply to you who suspects me despite having similar reads?  To me that seems odd. 

You don't fucking say--my entire point is that you are not taking the entire gamestate into consideration, you are completely focused on yourself and your position in the game and its scummy as fuck.  If you were really trying to figure things out, you would have known that we agreed on four townreads and maybe I was just mistaken about you, but you took the opposite route and told me I couldn't identify town even though you are ostensibly town and we had coalesced on four people individually.

I get “focused on myself” when someone tries to push crap logic/suspicions on me.  Why is that so hard a concept to comprehend.  Did you expect me to accept a potential lynch?  Regardless of my alignment?  If you ignore bad cases on you and let baseless wagons form than more power to you.  And you continue to ignore my points…you are the one who brought up the fact that despite having similar town reads (which I did not realize att)…that somehow I should give you props for having good town reads.  What you fail to grasp though is that at that same time…you were making a push on me.  I know what my alignment is but I can only guess those of the one’s I listed (that lined up with yours).  I could have them wrong.  IDFK.  What I DO know is that you are getting it wrong with me.  And for you to think that for some reason having the same reads gives you a pass on your reads when by the same token…having the same reads as you is viewed as a negative towards me (look at Fitz sheep…look at him discredit me despite similar reads…whaaaaah…) is absurd.  I assess you independently of your other reads….especially on D1
 

Bullshit.  You were saying your vote on me wasn’t random (ergo it was serious) before I began defending myself.  You’ve only recently added the reaction is scummy stuff.
 
And while we’re on that subject…how can you say I’m reacting differently here?  You say in those games I was “very direct with my rebuttals “ and “he knows the accusation is bullshit and he’s gonna tell you why goddamnit.”  You’re saying my defending of myself in this game has not been direct?  I have not called the accusations against me bullshit?  And I’ve failed to tell you why?  TOWN….please giv this a read.  Also…lol…I just realized what I started this reply with.

No, I added the reaction is scummy stuff as soon as you reacted the first time in 187.  After I pointed out the difference in your reaction here vs your other linked town games, you started to adjust the way you approached me.
 
It's called scumhunting.  You do something scummy (your first two votes), I vote you, you react, I guage your reaction and adjust my read.  You got scummier.

1) Your initial suspicions are crap.  The ones based on the 2 posts which have been shown to be crap.
2) My reaction is the same towards you describe it from town games you looked at of mine.  And I don’t do meta so I haven’t adjusted shit based on it.  I’ve adjusted my approach towards you as I have felt inclined to address your suspicions towards me.  Suspicions change throughout games…adjustments are made.  For you to propose I’m adjusting anything to appear more town based on my own meta is just a scum imagination at work.
 

Though not voting what I would assume is your prime suspect is not that unusual…is it Herself?

Nice mudsling, asshole.

  We're a hydra and mollie really wants to scumhunt Milk.  I've gotten what I needed to get my read on you so we've moved on. 

Here’s where I have a non-game related issue with you Des.   Where have I slung mud?  And where have I got personal with you?  I might disagree with what you are doing in this game but my disagreements are not directed at you the person.   Why don’t you put away your internet shield and play like a nice boy. 

Remember proper behavior is one of the rules.

  Try not to lose your cool under a little duress. 
 
Also…are you making some sort of excuse for your play based on being a hydra?  I’m not sure what your point is but if you can’t play as one head you should join games as an individual.
 

Though not voting what I would assume is your prime suspect is not that unusual…is it Herself?

Although it's good to see that you are staying consistent in your "Don't step out of line of the town consensus other than a shitty OMGUS on obvtown" approach.

I wish you had said you were obvtown sooner.  It could have saved us a lot of trouble.
 
But seriously…you aren’t obvtown.  There…that was easy.
 
This is just a poor attempt at some sort of dig.  As stated…you aren’t obvtown; FYI I’m not voting you atm; and, my suspicions towards you (aka vote) was not for OMGUS reasons.  I provided my reasons and included a bit of OMGUS as an honest after thought. 
 

tl:dr;

des losing his composure for no reason is scummy as hell. 

[havingfitz]

Checking in briefly. Haven't read the last 24+ hrs of posts. Good to see Orestes has been replaced. Are Wake and Quad the same person or is Wake just a fan of the same posting style?

Probably be Monday before I engage again.

[havingfitz]

OK...catching up from ~400.

@Herself wrt Post 407...it wasn't a throw away comment...it was an accurate depiction of what you were doing.  I.e. me being your primary suspect while you were voting someone else.  And even if it was a throw away comment (or mudslinging as you call it)...that doesn't call for someone to be called an asshole.  Basically you do not like any pressure coming back at you and your reaction was you losing your ~cool.  And tryyyy not to be a dick. 

@Wagons wrt Post 417...why were you specifically looking for Regfan's reads?  And what ever came of that effort? 

@Wagons wrt Post 422...I make my cases on players I suspect.  I'm usually pretty good about explaining why I vote someone one.  Other than that...I don't typically do a lot of cheerleading to get people voted.  Especially the earlier in a game it is when there is more room for error.  People can see my suspicions and my defenses and make their own determinations.  And I wasn't going to vote Orestes (put him at 4 votes) when he wasn't even here.  And WTF does Post 424 have to do with anything?  I said it ~9 pages back, things evolve....if my main suspect isn't getting any support I'm not going to waste my vote.

@Regfan wrt Post 427...in my quote at the bottom of your post...ust prior to voting me you leave out the part where I say I do not recall Herself's townreads.  So including the "I'm not sure I could be sheeping you" part loses some of it's context.  And as I was voting Herself at the point I made that statement I don't think I need to caveat everything I say wrt to my suspects with an "if you are town" statement.  The case on me sucks.  Defending myself on it is getting tiresome.  And your hopping on board is a concern....given you aren't a scumread of mine and any town reads on my wagon = bad.

Not liking Garmr's Post 428...advocating a policy lynch while setting me up for D2....for looking suspicious.  Nice work.

@Regfan wrt Post 437...what does me having a scum read on herself and not recalling who they may have listed as town reads have to do with anything?  I'm not going to base my suspicions on someone on who they think is town.  Scum are probably going to list town and perhaps one buddy in any given list town reads...especially one that encompasses a third of the players.  I do not track other players' townreads and even if I am aware of them, they aren't going to prevent me from suspecting anyone.

Post 473 comes across as town IMO.  While I agree with ICE that the Quad/Wake schtick is annoying/distracting...I like what the slot has started to contribute.

Wrt Herself's Post 496 coments on me.  1) I've provided an example where I have asked about hydras before (as town....hello????) and asking a question is not instigation.  SG felt the need to express discontent with the Mollie des hydra.  I was curious why.  

When players call themselves obvtown and say they have zero chance of being lynched it makes me think they aren't town and that they need lynched.

Good to see some content from Eek.  Do the peple on the Eek wagon have reasoning beyond lurking (and no...I haven't checked)?

WRT Garmer's Post 560...what are the "obvious reasons" you want me gone?  You're suspicions towards the Eek slot don't seem as "obvious" and yet you are on that lesser wagon.  Translation...I don't see your rationale for having me as such a strong scum read (though anything you came up with would be wrong) and combined with your vote on Eek...you seem inconsistent.

@TvK wrtPost 564...what would your read on me be if you weren't factoring in my not having posted in a while (Please note my sig block ). 


@Silver's request:

Town: Wake, SG, ICE
Leaning town: The Silver Bard, Eek, Regfan
Null-some suspicions: Hassle, Kid A, TvK
Would lynch: Herself, Lolwagons, Garmr


I've had the town reads on ICE and SG most of the game iirc.  Wake has replaced himself and made the non-entity into a strong town read.

I had suspicions towards Orestes but not for any solid reasons (hence me wanting more content from the slot) and I think Silver has done a good job alleviating my Orestes concerns.  Eek...hasn't really done anything suspect IMO other than activity level which he explained and has seemd to have turned around.  I like most of what Regfan is saying and to be honest...he would probably be a stronger town read if not for his voting of me.  I naturally do not agree with any of the rationale he has presented wrt me being scum.

The nulls are pretty much that because they have fallen into the background (or remained there in Kid's case).  They are all active enough to not be considered flakers but have a lurky feel to them.  Not voteworthy IMO but bear watching.

My top three suspects atm are herself for reasons I;ve stated already.  LolWagons for T S O's play and questonable replace out and their parroting Herself's case on me.  Same for Garmr.  I view their play as inconsistent today and they are lining themself up for a vote on me tomorrow or later today.  And I have yet to see why.  I.e. not obvious.

[havingfitz]

Your sheeping of a crap case on me without any thought of your own is "scummy as hell."

What is

your

case on me? Bullet format would be nice. At least put a little effort in. As "obvious reasons" = no effort.

P.edit...I did like some of your early posting. Are players locked in to their initial reads? I suspected Orestes and that changed. I liked Kid after 3 posts more that I do now. If I suspect you for omgus reasons I'll be the first to admit it.

[havingfitz]

@Garmr wrt Post 573...it's a crap case but that's a matter of opinion (backed up by fact and knowledge).  The way I omgus?  First off...whenever I am town I take pushes towards me to be potentially scum driven.  I.e scum like to mislynch town so when I am town...those trying to mislynch me come across as scum.  And i will never vote anyone (other than perhaps in RVS) strictly for OMGUS.  Omgus just adds to any suspicions I might have had.  And why would I "go for Orestes" if I suspected someone else more and wanted more content from that slot before further developing an opinion?  That makes absolutely no sense.  And yes...flips are good.  Thanks for that pointer.  Also...you still haven't explained your case on me.

@TvK wrt Post 576...I do not think you are giving me a fair shake with your assessment of my reads or of me tunneling.  I have not focused solely on Herself.  Defending myself against a poor case is not tunnelling and is necessary as that poor case is 1) negatively influencing town and or 2) enabling scum an easy wagon to hop aboard.  Both of which fmpov is bad.  I can not ignore it. 

You might also note that whereas I am not voting Herself atm whereas you have been voting the same slot the entire game.  Ironic? 

But back to what I was saying....I'm by no means tunneling.  I just don't throw my vote around easily to get reactions.  I vote people I am interested in seeing get lynched. 

Back to the reads.  I've provide reads in Post 187, Post 394 and Post 566.  They have been fairly consistent though they have changed a bit with the increased activity levels from some of the early underposters.  I.e Wake and Eek.  What would be a lot more suspect would be if my reads did not evolve as the game progresses.

[havingfitz]

@Garmr wrt Post 573...it's a crap case but that's a matter of opinion (backed up by fact and knowledge).  The way I omgus?  First off...whenever I am town I take pushes towards me to be potentially scum driven.  I.e scum like to mislynch town so when I am town...those trying to mislynch me come across as scum.  And i will never vote anyone (other than perhaps in RVS) strictly for OMGUS.  Omgus just adds to any suspicions I might have had.  And why would I "go for Orestes" if I suspected someone else more and wanted more content from that slot before further developing an opinion?  That makes absolutely no sense.  And yes...flips are good.  Thanks for that pointer.  Also...you still haven't explained your case on me.

Sigh fitz. I agree with herself and there's not much else since herself has pretty much tore you apart post by post.  that's why eek is my top vote and not you.

Don’t give me that “sigh fitz”crap.  That’s just avoiding the question.  Why do you suspect me?  Even if it’s just parroting herself I’d like to see the reasons you are using.  And Herself hasn’t torn anything apart...if they had I would think I’d have been lynched by now.  And HTF does your opinion that Herself has “torn me apart” = Eek being your top vote???  Also…didn’t you recently express some reservations about herself?  If by some miracle Herself was town I could very well see this being scum trying to slide on to a mislynch.
 

It also seems all your scum reads are people who voted you

No…you and LoL are among my top three suspicions and neither of you were voting me when I indicated my suspicions towards you.  Lol has voted me after I had voted his slot and you have yet to vote me.  And Street and Regfan are fairly low on my list of suspicions…despite actually voting me.  :idea:
 

and your leaning town reads (eek and  reasons silver) are my scum reads and they haven't done anything to be warranted as town.

What have they done that is scummy?  I’ve liked their recent posts. 
 

Also fitz herself has the most posts this game. So saying you throwing a vote for content from that player is rubbish and I doubt that player will get lynched today so it was a safe vote. You could of just interrogated him as well.

Read closer….I wasn’t saying anything about Herself’s amount of content.  I was referring to Orestes’.

[havingfitz]

HF, calling my read on you parroting herself is blatantly innacurate and shows you havent been paying attention to the case at all.

You're absolutely right. That's what I get for using memory and trying to get a post in while I have limited time. More on this later.

And this is just utter bull. I haven't even been in the game long enough to be inconsistent. And I'm not lining up anything. I'm straight up voting you.

I wasn't talking about you...I was referring to Garmr.

[havingfitz]

SG...Quadraxis was a non-entity. Once Wake finally appeared...shortly before my most recent catch up...as I read through he post I liked the effort I was seeing. He was asking a lot of questions I like. He's active and I think his content up to this point has been pro-town. When I got done reading up and was sorting out my thoughts on players the thoughts on Wake all pointed to him being town.

UNVOTE: LolWagons because they are better than T S O, at least providing a lot of content, and combined with a lack of support I need to look over again anyway.

VOTE: Herself for previous reasons. Plan B would be Garmr.

[havingfitz]

@Wake...wrt SG's comment you ask for opinion on in Post 605.  SG obviously has suspicions towards you and that is going to bias (rightfully or wrongly) her views towards you.  In this case I disagree and don't think your posts say nothing.  Also...your reads/a vote would be nice.

@Lol...wrt to Post 611; no...you haven't parroted.  In regards to your case on me....I of course disagree with it as detailed in my Post 566, which you failed to respond to some of my points/questions to you in.  Back to your case on me: a few arbitrary percentages that you assign to my ISO that have no correlation to alignment that I know of.  If you have examples where you have done %s to scum hunt I would love to see the results.  And I already addressed the cheerleading tell in #566. 

So yeah...you didn't parrot Herself (my apologies again) but your case sucks on its own (lack of) merit.

@Lol...I would love to hear your opinion of the "first 2 posts" case Herself came up with.

On to Lol's Post 612, what "case" against me are you decrying Eek for "ignoring?"   The herself case that you aren't "parroting?" or the one you are advocating (%s and no-cheerleading).  I repeat....%'s LolWhat? and I do not cheerlead...especially on D1.  Later in games I might when my reads are stronger but not D1.  I assume we're all big kids and can decide on our own.  Ala Wake's no sheeping stance.  So where is Eek's fault in paying attention to whichever case you refer to?  And why are you singling out Eek?  Has everyone else paid attention to the cases?  I don't know and I'm not about to look it up but what distinguishes Eek's pov on the case's against me vs anyone else?  It's like a point of suspicion you are inflicting on Eek that is unwarranted.


@garmr...wrt to Post 620; you "fucking told [me] why [you] suspect [me]?"  Where?  All you have said "for obvious reasons", that you "agree with Herself," and I am playing "scummy as hell."  Well thanks for that insight.  Who was accusing me of being lazy?  Lol?  Welcome to the club Garmr.  And why getting so angry at my request that you actually define your suspcions against me?

As for telling you why I'm leaning town on Eek and Silver Bard....similar to my comments on Wake.  They've both started contributing after perfectly acceptable early game absences/dead spots (Orestes) and their (both of them) content of late has not given me any reason to suspect them.  So my town read is an absence of a scummy read.  Capisce?

@Eek...wrt to Post 633...what post are you saying I (or others?) would be a fool to not find scummy?  The post of mine that you are quoting or a post of yours?  Please clarify.

@Silver...wrt to Post 634.  Reads given at Post 187 of a game are going to change over the course of the next 380 posts.  Either for better or worse.  My early read on Garmr went down hill for reasons I believe I have touched on (ISO me and Ctrl-F Garmr) while my early vibe from Kid A (based admittedly on a very small sample of posts) and tarnished a bit as he has either not participated or posted comments of no value (IMO).  So I'm not calling Kid A a scum read but I don't feel as good about him as I did early game.

@ICE...wrt to Post 645...why is it unlikely that Eek and I are both town?  Scum could just be trying to force town to do all the dirty work.  I could easily see there being 1-2 scum on each of our wagons with a slight chance of there being 1 off our wagons.  This feels like you are adding weight to the D2 position of going after whomever of us (Eek and I) isn't lynched today (assuming it is one of us) if that person lynched is town.  I think Eek is town....but it looks like are you saying that it would reflect negatively on me regardless of whether he were to flip town or scum.

@Regfan...wrt to Post 648.  I do not pay attention to who people are townreading.  Scum and town are going to townread people and there are going to be intersections.  If I suspect someone it's not going to be affected by who they think is town.  I'm more interested in who people think are scum and why.  The "why" let's others have good info to digest and puts that player on the record with either valid or crap reasoning.  Then when a mislynch happens the aforementioned crap reasons can be used against them.  So no...I'm not big into townreads (other than my own).  And I touch on Eek and Bard earlier in this post.


So I'm back alone on Herself.  Still prefer that lynch.  Not a fan of my wagon or Eeks.  TvK, Kid A and Wake not playing nice with others (i.e. maintaining wagons even less popular then herself's).

VOTE: Garmr

 

On a completely non-game related note....

Where are you at in Belgium Eek?  I like Belgium a lot and have been there several times.

[havingfitz]

Herself to Garmr's rescue and the last three Garmr votes equal the scum team. Brilliant.

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz

 

———✹

In as few words as possible, between Herself and Garmr who is the better vote and why?

I would prefer Herself to Garmr to be perfectly honest but as I’ve mentioned a few times, I’m not going to let my vote waste away if my prime suspect isn’t getting support.  So why would I actually prefer Herself?
 
The beaten to death crap case on me evolving from my 1st 2 posts.
Painting my reactions as against my typical meta (wrt defending myself) which is clearly incorrect.
Advocating policy lynches on lurkers 6 or 7 pages into the game.
Trying to encourage votes on me based on the fact my v/LA had ended….13 minutes into the day I was coming off v/LA.  (Ridiculous)
Post 311 and Post 367 and probably more. 
 
I’m about to start my commute so this will have to suffice for now.
 

———✹

What's your exact read on LolWagon? Please be as brutally honest as possible.

I suspect the LolWagon based on T S O’s play and on his efforts against me.  Call it OMGUS…I’m fine with that…but when I am town I consider anything that calls my alignment into question to be suspect.  I go into this more in depth with Lol in my Post 678.
 
 

———✹

Would you be willing to work with Garmr to tone it down and more civilly search for Scum?

I did not realize I was being uncivil.  If I am please point it out and I will adjust.  I think Garmr is scum so I do not see me “working with” him.

[havingfitz]

but you are going to have to give me an example or two of you as town saying or clearly acting like anyone who votes you is suspect

It's not the voting of me I have issues with...it's people making crap cases against me to raise suspicions toward me.

Here are several posts that illustrate my aversion to people not having cases on me (IMO):

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2221062

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2933180

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4182226

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4584610

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4633874

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4885982

and I'm tired of looking. But I use bad cases against me often and on more than one occasion it has been against scum.

Just do a search of crap case on my posts and you'll find other examples.

[havingfitz]

Looks like SG, ICE and Kid aren't getting their first preferences and need to move.

I suggest Garmr.

Wake providing thoughts\a vote would be nice also.

[havingfitz]

Either scenario fitz falls in as a scum candidate and should be dealt with swiftly.

This makes no sense. You're just throwing shit out there and hoping some sticks.

[havingfitz]

@garmr...wrt to Post 620; you "fucking told [me] why [you] suspect [me]?"  Where?  All you have said "for obvious reasons", that you "agree with Herself," and I am playing "scummy as hell."  Well thanks for that insight.  Who was accusing me of being lazy?  Lol?  Welcome to the club Garmr.  And why getting so angry at my request that you actually define your suspcions against me?

[havingfitz]

^ what does that even show? I was getting this game mixed up with another. What does thinking I was at L-1 have to do with anything ?

And your "throwing shit" example is me pointing out fact. The last three people to vote you all landed in Herself's scum pool.

[havingfitz]

Town is stupid.

Odd night Vig

Nice work.

[havingfitz]

@Wake - with regard/s to.

No interest in a Silver or Eek lynch. TvK and Kid A would require a read through...not sure on them. Still suspect Herself and Garmr though his post 810 did give me some reservations. I don't know if he is good enough as scum to produce a post like that. ......

[havingfitz]

Reg...here's a fact for you: I'm not voting either one of them.

I'm stating my views towards some of the players currently being discussed while reaffirming my suspicions.

On that note...Kid...with is that theory coming from? Iirc EPM made reference to traitors as well and I asked about his comment...but no response iirc again. That theory seems way out in left field.

What are your (Kid) thoughts on TSB and Garmr? Even I can see your Herself vote is going nowhere.

[havingfitz]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

If it wound up that you were today's lynch and you flipped town I would adjust opinions accordingly. TvK would be someone I'd look at more closely. Along with TSB probably. Do you suspect TvK more than TSB?

[havingfitz]

You didn't answer my question though; What's your town-read on TSB based around?

I talk about TSB in Post 566 and Post 678...which, I respond to this same question from you in as well.

To add...I've agreed with his scum reads and he's read me correctly. Plus plus IMO.

[havingfitz]

I was just asking Fitz if he would shoot Herself (his biggest scumread all game) if Garmr flips scum.

I'd rather leave scum guessing. If I commit to killing a player...and I'm right...then I would expect to be the nk or possibly blocked. If I narrow it down to 2 or 3 then who knows. I.e. I don't like giving absolutes with actions.

Based on my role I'm assuming there are town and scum PRs that have the potential to screw with night actions

[havingfitz]

^So getting all buddy with fitz gets you a town read

Noted for future mafia games

It's not an opinion I am oblivious to. It works both ways as shown by my links provided to Lol.

How do you feel about like-minded people who ~sense your alignment?

[havingfitz]

Fitz?

Yes?

I shot Herself. I didn't get a chance to explicitly state that was a consideration before the day ended thanks to TSB's self vote (wtf??????) but I think it was pretty obvious Herself was going to be one of the targets I considered Not sure why they didn't mention the fact they were a mason or at least broach the subject of my target.

[havingfitz]

Why so jumpy Kid?

p.edit....I wouldn't know. Is this your first game on the site?

[havingfitz]

Where did I lie? Saying something is a possibility (ie consideration) isn't commiting to anything. If anyone thought my shot was going to be other than Herself or Garmr they weren't reading the game.

Who did you think I was going to target? Not who would you have targeted...but who do you think I would?

[havingfitz]

I said I wasn't going to explicitly state my target. Ex. I'm going to kill Herself.

What I was more than willing to do was narrow it down to two or three as possible targets. If there had been more time before the hammer and or with twilight I'd have expected there to be discussion wrt my target. But as I said...if Herself wasn't my obvious target you weren't paying attention...or you were.

Why are you making anything I have said or done out to be something it's not?

[havingfitz]

Fferllt...what was yesterday's consensus?

If I'm in a position to get another shot concensus is fine I guess.

[havingfitz]

I think fitz is just a VI.

Sadly I'm thinking the same thing right now.

Well good morning to the two of you too. &oBTW...you can both kiss my VI (not) ass

Not all the competent players were busy lynching TSB y'know.

[havingfitz]

We're in a 13-player game. How likely is it that we're dealing with a 3-member Scumgroup with Daytalk? I think it's unlikely, and that instead we're up against a 2-man team.

Or, we're dealing with 3 Scum + Daytalk... + a few more Town PRs?

In a 13 player game I always assume 3 mafia.  With a slight chance of an SK.  Though not sure how likely there would be a chance of an SK in a game with a vig as well.  So I don’t think there is an SK in this game.  Plus there would have potentially been even more kills.  So I would assume 3 mafia.  Not sure what impact daytalk would have on the set up but my assumption is, without knowing what PR’s scum might have, that it points to town having a bit more power.  Vig and masons is a good start.  IMO there is probably also either an investigative ability of some kind and a/or a protective ability of some kind (which could explain a failed night kill).  And that goes for either town or scum. 
 

Tl:dr;

Too many options to consider.
 

Fitz, yesterday you said you were an Odd-Night Vigilante. You claimed Herself's death, and only one person died last Night. How so? Do you think you could have been protected last Night, or that someone blocked Mafia? That would have had to have been the case, otherwise your claim is a downright lie.

How so?  How would I know?  Some possibilities that may have been mentioned already and which I’m sure you could imagine include:
 
- Mafia held off on their NK to implicate me
- Mafia’s shooter was JK’d or RB’d
- Mafia’s target was JK’d or Doc’d
- Mafia shot Herself also since they didn’t know for sure who I was targeting
- I was RB'd and Mafia shot Herself
- I’m fakeclaiming and there was only the potential for 1 nk all along
 

Why exactly, in your own words, did you decide to shoot Herself? ...and no, I'm afraid it wasn't pretty obvious that Herself was in your target pool.

Umm…I’m afraid it was pretty obvious that I suspected Herself.  I spelled this out to you in a response to a question from you and that was obvious to at least one other player (TvK).  And given my inclination as a Vig was to shoot who I suspected….that points to Herself.  Assuming I even got the chance to take my shot, I wasn’t going to waste it on a lurker or some unknown.  I wanted scum. 
 
You yourself said:

Herself wasn't my biggest Townread, and

I was surprised she flipped Town.

So my target should not be coming across as that unreasonable from at least your pov.
 

If Bard hadn't robbed us of time we may have gotten around to discussing your target. Undoubtedly there were reservations about your claim which may in part explain people's reluctance to discuss it, and as for the Masons it's extremely unlikely they'd have the inclination to poke their heads out of the earth and reveal themselves to the world of their own volition.

We will never know what the conversation may have led if TSB hadn’t essentially quick hammered himself.  I assume there would have been further discussion about Vig targets and like I said to someone…I would have been fine with providing a few names.  My only concern, after having already having had to reveal myself, was that if I gave an exact name…scum would have info they didn’t need to have.
 

What I can't seem to understand is why you didn't take your claim and ergo role more seriously, and didn't take the initiative to broach the subject of your target yourself while you had so much time to do so.

How does someone not take a claim seriously?   I claimed.  Look at my avatar…does that look un-serious?  And I take offense at your accusation that I am not taking my role seriously.  Everyone is different and has different opinions/suspicions/concerns.  Your thoughts might not be the same as mine (aside from the fact Herself’s flip surprised you) but no one is always right.  And what “so much time to do so” are you referring to?  TSB self-hammered less than 24 hours after I claimed and I made at least one post in that time that indicated my views on my targets.  What more did you expect in such

limited

time?
 

As Scum you likely felt you didn't have to, or need to. If I were the Vig, and found myself outed, I'd waste no effort in discussing the matters of the pool. You somehow lacked the initiative and the fire in your belly because it is you, Fitz, who is suspicious.

    
I did not have as much time as you would have everyone believe and the subject of my target had been broached. Unless I cared who others wanted me to target (which I did not)...how would I have acted differently?
 
Also…on the subject of my claim….I am perfectly capable of making a good claim.  I’ve been applauded for it before and my ability to fakeclaim has been instrumental in winning games before.  I know how to claim.  Point is, if I was scum working out a fakeclaim I can tell you my first option would not have been role that would result in me potentially outing myself the very first night.  I don’t know what my first option would have been since that wasn’t my train of thought but if I was scum…I would have known I would be under even more suspicion following a disparity in kills after N1.   I.e. Odd night Vig (or any Vig) would not have been it.
 

Fitz, please educate us all on how anyone who thought you weren't shooting anyone other than Herself and Garmr wasn't reading the game.

You said you might have a 2-3 player target pool, yet insinuate that people who didn't for sure know it was either Herself or Garmr were ignorant.

Because I spent most of D1 with my suspicions/my vote on Herself and when that was going nowhere…on Garmr.  That’s how.  Plus as shown in the links I provide earlier in this post wrt to a reply to you and from TvK.
 

You never made your targets obvious, and you squandered the time you had to discuss your targets.[/u] Although I don't think you've explicitly lied to me, my trust in you is shaken, Fitz. At the moment I have you in my Scum pile.

 
They should have been obvious to anyone who looked at my posting/voting history.  I find it hard to believe you are making my choice out to seem like it was not a given.  And less than 24 hours is not a lot of time.  It feels slightly misrepresentative of you to paint it as such.
 

Do you know what's really weird? Kid A's reaction to my vote on him Day 1.

Why?
 

---

Havingfitz

 

———✹

What does your gut tell you about who's Scum?

I still suspect Garmr but the fact I'm still here has me doubting that read. Plus, one quality post is not enough to “a town read” make.  As far as my list is concerned, he’s still on it.  The other two ATM on my mind are TvK and Kid.  Lol didn’t come to mind because they seem to have flaked…out of sight out of mind.  I haven’t voted anyone yet today because the day has just begun and I need to digest things.
 

I thought Kid A's vote there was understandable given the lack of two nightkills and

no claim of a kill at the time by Fitz

Given the fact I had claimed my kill at the time Kid voted me…and he still is.  I understand we both posted at the same time so he might not have seen my shot revelation but it would have been immediately obvious to him and nothing changed wrt his vote.  So is his remaining vote still understandable? 

[havingfitz]

Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating it!

(aka prod dodge and

mini-v/LA

)

[havingfitz]

I'll catch up in here tonight.

[havingfitz]

Saturday/holiday activities got in the way of games. If I do not get to it today I will re-engage tomorrow. This game is first on my list of catch-ups.

[havingfitz]

Catching up from my last pre-Thanksgiving post.  12+ pages....ugh.
 
Note to self...see if Kid A ever responds to TvK's p.915 question.
 
@Garmr wrt Post 925, the last player I played with who contributed asinine limericks was scum.  Just saying.  And you should really wait until you've gotten something right before you go around using the VI term.
 
I like Eek's Post 931.
 
Wake is seeing SG and ICE as scum.  Not sure I agree with that.  I do agree with ICE's Double standard post considering Wake has not addressed anything I said to him in my Post 916.
 
Awesome Kid A Post /sarcasm
 
@Kid A wrt Post 1006 comments on my kill dissonance.  It's consistent with previous game/s where I was Vig.  There was no dissonance.  I don't make a habit of giving exact targets as a Vig but am willing to provide/discuss 2 or 3 potential targets.
 
@ICEninja wrt Post 1007...KMA.
 
@penguin_alien wrt Post 1031, what about my Vig performance in Open 505 do you find much better than my play in this game?  The fact I pushed a mislynch on D1 and has most of the scum team wrong or the fact I shot someone I suspected (who I do not recall if they were a universal scum read or not) N1 and hit scum?  And then I was killed N1 and that was it.  So how is this game different?  Because I guessed wrong N1?
 
@Kid A wrt Post 1067.  That was a very enjoyable post.  Your imagination is top notch.  You should post more.
 
@penguin_alien wrt Post 1091...does town like when they feel they are being meta'ed inaccurately?  And what does me being a Vig have to do with my suspicions towards Herself.  If anything...the knowledge I could do something about Herself probably contributed to me looking at other players as well (that and the fact Herself wasn't getting a lot of support).
 
@Wake wrt Post 1094, if you do not believe my claim then that means you think I am lying and should be voting me.  So why aren't you?  And having an Odd Night vig in not way infers there is an Even Night vig.  I might have seen that happen once and I'm not even sure if it was in a game I was in or not.  And I addressed the "didn't talk the shot" over issue you have in my Post 916 which you have ignored.  Having less than 24 hours between claim and lynch doesn't exactly allow for a lot of Vig shot options discussion.
 
Also...why are you voting outside of the two people you seen to have suspected the most recently (SG & ICE) ?  It looks like from your scoring system that Kid is tied with me + Eek + fferyllt in your 2nd spot...behind SG (who you aren't voting) and ahead of ICE (who you just were voting).  WTF?
 
@Kid A wrt Post 1097...the fact I claimed a PR didn't seem to bother you at the start of today.  Why make that a point of concern now?
 
I have suspicions towards Kid but Wake's attempts to squeeze a claim out of him (and hypothesize on the other mason in general) are still suspect imo.  Not so much the Kid pressure because Kid is at L-1 but moreso in conjunction with all the mason conjecture.
 
@ICE A wrt Post 1000, why would I be a NK target tonight?  Why wouldn't scum make an attempt to hit the other mason?  Especially if the Odd qualifier to my claim is accurate and I don't have a shot tonight? 
 
Leaving me alive would only contribute to suspicions towards me and my claim.  i.e. saying I am most likely the NK target tonight doesn't make much sense.
 
I like Eek's questioning of Wake on page 45.
 
Post 1123 makes no sense to me as would appear to be the case with a few other players as well.
 
Post 1157 feels like rolefishing and setting the groundwork for a run at me D3 all bundled into one.
 
@TvK wrt Post 1174...I have suspicions towarsd you and Kid but I would be surprised if the two of you were scum together.
 
Post 1191 is just a big kluge of indecisive nothing.  Thanks Wake.
 
@SG wrt Post 1202...

what changed you opinion towards Wake

and why would you be willing to vote me?
 
Revised reads:
Suspect - "Kid OR TvK" and Wake (though SG makes some good points)
Lean Suspect - penguin
Null - Garmr and ICE
Lean Town - Regfan and fferllt 
Town - Eek and SG and "Kid OR TvK"
 
VOTE: Kid A

[havingfitz]

Fitz, why exactly have the winds changed?

You haven't captivated me. WTF are you talking about? My suspicions?

Do you plan on addressing anything I have asked or directed your way?

[havingfitz]

Fitz, why exactly have the winds changed?

You haven't captivated me.  WTF are you talking about?  My suspicions?
 
Do you plan on addressing anything I have asked or directed your way?

Hey now, I'm just asking you some questions. That's alright with you, right?
 
Sure, you can ask me, so long as it's not buried in a mountain of text. (Yeah, I'm cutting down on the girth of my posts.)

1) I don’t care for your insinuation that I might not like being asked questions when I have in fact responded to all of your questions iirc (without complaint) and not been shown the same courtesy from you. 
 
And 2) for you to say “Sure you can ask me” is extremely annoying given the fact I already HAVE asked you some questions.   Specifically in my long response to YOU in Post 916.  FYI…I’m on a phone too so if I can get through your walls and respond to questions I would expect the same.  I find people’s comments (ICE and SG iirc) about you not responding to questions when you demand answers from others to be spot on.
 

I'd just like to know how...
 

@Silver's request:
 
Town: Wake, SG, ICE
Leaning town: The Silver Bard, Eek, Regfan
Null-some suspicions: Hassle, Kid A, TvK
Would lynch: Herself, Lolwagons, Garmr

 
...turned to this...
 

 
 
Revised reads:
Suspect - "Kid OR TvK" and Wake (though SG makes some good points)
Lean Suspect - penguin
Null - Garmr and ICE
Lean Town - Regfan and fferllt 
Town - Eek and SG and "Kid OR TvK"

Well…one factor could be the 2 weeks and 660 posts in between + a flip.  Things change.  As reads on one player or players change that can affect reads on others.  I bring up suspicions in my Post 1237.  My town reads haven’t changed much.  ICE has gone from town to null based on some of the comments he has made wrt me and on comments from others as I read through.  Same for Garmr’s move from scum to null (though that is a weak null...leaning towards suspicion).  I don’t like making cases on everyone in my list (especially town)…I prefer to focus on suspects which my suspicions of can be found in my catch up posts.
 

...and why. Oh, and I also am wondering why you're voting for Kid A when you have either him or TvK in your Town section.

If you actually read my posts (specifically the one you are commenting on here)…you would have seen that I suspect Kid and TvK but that I do not think they are scum together.  If Kid were today’s lynch and he were to flip scum…I would place TvK in my town section.  And vice versa.  Though looking at the voting…if TvK were today’s lynch and flip scum…I would not feel as confident putting Kid in my town pile as I would the other way around. 
 
Also…I find your vote on penguin a bit confusing.  Is if for poor grammar or word choice?
 

@TvK

….do you have any completed scum games on this site?

[havingfitz]

Mental note - Wake continues to flagrantly avoid questions directed at him.

[havingfitz]

I was going to write a wall to your last post to me Wake and answer it point by point but as I was looking at it it appears you still failed to answer any of the questions I asked you in the post and you are simply regurgitating points that I answered in the post.
 
Is it a point of concern/suspicion with you that I did not explicitly state I was going to target Herself?
 
Are you saying it was not obvious Herself was someone I was considering given the facts 1) I told you specifically that I suspected Herself…2) I told TvK something along those lines (I don’t recall my exact words to TvK atm but my earlier response provided a link to my comments) and 3) I spent much of D1 embroiled in disagreement with Herself and was voting them at various times? 
 
Is it a point of contention with you that I did not promote more discussion of my intended target/s in the less than 24 hours that expired between my claim and TSB’s self hammer?  You made 3 posts after I claimed and never once thought to ask questions about who I might target?  Is that how town should behave?  I didn’t post the rest of Thursday evening after I claimed and the next morning in the ~4 hours I was around, I posted 5-6 times in which I did broach the subject of my target thought process.   And who could have seen TSB self hammering?  His action cut discussion short.  If asked I definitely would have revealed 2-3 Vig targets but that was not to be.  I repeat…in lieu of discussing it…anyone looking over my posts from D1 could have seen who my main suspects were.  If you lack the ability to deduce the obvious that’s not my problem.
 
I’m becoming less interested in answering your questions when you continue to avoid mine and answer them with questions of your own. 
 
As for me sparing no expense in pointing out my questions…I typically indicate them with a “?” at the end of the sentence containing the question/s.

[havingfitz]

Well...I wake up to find I'm still in the game and there's already 4+ pages.  wow
 
Catch-up:
 
I agree with fferllt that yesterday ended a bit abruptly.  I'm not surprised Kid A was the lynch and it was looking inevitable...but I am a bit surprised how the last few votes dropped.  Seemed unnecessarily sudden.
 
Not sure where Wake is getting fferllt is scum.  Look forward to that case.
 
Annnnd Garmr is surprised penguin was the mason.  The shock!  This despite, iirc, your involvement in discussing the role and clearly saying you weren't one.  Just discussing the role was probably enough to zero scum in on penguin.  Think about it...10 players.  One of them is a mason.  I've claimed Vig.  Assuming 3 scum...that bring the mason pool down to 6.  Whatever intereactions herself may have had with other players probably narrowed it down by 2-3 more.  So now scum have a 1 in 3-4 shot of hitting the mason.  Then looking at those 3-4 possibilities interactions with Herself and/or them saying they weren't (Wake?) probably narrowed the pool down to 1-2.  So for you to be so "surprised" really comes across as disingenuous given your role in helping scum zone in on the mason.  A quick alt-f on your ISO shows you mentioning mason 15 times yesterday.  Not sure what each time revolved around but still seems a bit obsessive/unnecessary.
 
@fferllt wrt Post 1335...three things that come to mind are 1) I had no shot last night, 2) scum obviously had an idea who the other mason was, and 3) wifom.  And as you mentioned...the possibility they have a RB exists too.
 
Annnd Wake has a claim.  I did not see that or the result coming.
 
Hilarious.
 
Not sure why fferllt is willing to accept the possibility Wake is fakeclaiming if she is in fact town (which I was leaning towards yesterday).  I could not restrain myself from that 1v1 if I was town getting a ~fake result on me. 

@fferllt

...what was you read on Wake yesterday?
 
Annnd Garmr thought he was going to be the nk last night.  I hate that.  That and the penguin mason shock.  Look at Garmr...he's town!  He should have been killed last night.  Penguin was a mason!?  /sarcasm
 
Page 55 is a lot of Garmr loving on himself and pulling some ridiculous scum/town ratings out of his arse.  I get the impression Garmr believes Wake's claim (not sure on anyone else) but he (Garmr) hasn't felt inclined to commit to his ~belief with a vote.  As Eek apparently does.
 
OK...so probably the first issue I can recall since D1 with the fferllt slot.  Two players have voiced suspicions towards fferllt today and they are both idiots for it.  With Eek being a "fucking idiot" because he believes Wake's claim?  Not cool.
 
Garmr seems to believe Wake and yet he places his vote on TvK.  I guess I can understand him wanting to wait to her more from Wake before committing with a vote but where does the TvK vote come from?  Your last non-Kid A suspicions were directed towards Wake and you only moved off him to hammer Kid. 

@garmr

...what is your read on Wake today?
Post 1391 clarifies Garmr's thoghts on the Wake claim.  ok..
 
Wake's claiming building steam as a potential fakeclaim. 
 
Undecided on the Garmr scum slip.  I can see Eek's pov more than I can buy Garmr's pun explanation.  But still leaves me on the fence with wrt it being a scumslip....
 
Nice Post 1423 by Eek. 
 
@Garmr....if Eek is obvious scum, does that make TvK even more obvious scum to you and if so....why?
 
Garmr...why would you want TvK to be the hammer on your potential lynch?  OK...you answer that a few posts later.  Do you think hammer place suspicion of the hammerer...with or without taking the alignment of the lynchee into account?
 
Regfan...what makes you think there might only be 2 scum?  I would hope there were 3 as if there are only 2...they probably have more firepower.  Though that might account for them having a RB like role.  LOL...as I read what I am typing staing the hope there are 3 scum makes no sense.  Two would of course be better as that gives us more hope.  So I gues 2 with a little more horsepower behind them would be better than having to find 3.  But still interested in why you think there are 2.
 
And finally...wow.  So Wake is saying no gambit.  Ok.  ~Cool?  I must say I did not see fferllt as scum.  Before I commit to voting her Wake...can you explain why you selected fferllt to "scope"?  Why her and not penguin who you seemed pretty suspicious of yesterday?
 
I'll place my vote after Wake has a chance to elaborate.
 
p.edit...so Wake...in addition to elaborating on my question above...are you saying you see Regfan and fferllt as team mates and that she would try to discredit your claim becasue Regfan would have informed her of your previous game?  Save me the ISOing and please tell me what your reads on Regfan have been in this game prior to today.
 
p.p.edit.  regfan....why are you voting the person standing by his claim for the person he has a result on?  WTF is going on?

P.p.edit...VOTE: fferllt

[havingfitz]

And Wake...still like to hear your thought process in targeting fferllt.

[havingfitz]

@Regfan....why isn't there a 3rd option that Wake it telling the truth?

[havingfitz]

If fferllt ends up the lynch (not sure why it wouldn't be her) and she flips scum...I'd like to get a consensus on who I should shoot tonight. We would have the room for me to take a chance with the shot and since sentiment is I'm a poor aim...kma and let's see town do better

If fferllt flips town....I'm targeting Wake tonight.

[havingfitz]

Yourself.

?


And fine fferllt....I can wait.

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

Shoot yourself tonight.

That's an unrealistic request. I'm not targeting myself.

If fferyllt flips scum.....who would you want me to target tonight?

That reminds me...get over the dramatics Garmr...I have not said anything to imply you would be my target tonight. Are you a candidate? Sure....but not a runway IMO.

[havingfitz]

I cannot see Wake as scum.

If fferyllt flips something other than scum (or miller?) then how could you not see Wake as scum?

If fferyllt is a miller unbeknownst to her...that would just wrong. I want to say I've come across the role (or similar) before but I can't be sure. Even if I did...I would at least have to say it's rare.

On that note...I don't recall ever being in a game with a "scope" either and for two equally rare roles (IMO) to touch each other in this game seems like extremely small odds.

[havingfitz]

Ah. Ok.

[havingfitz]

I thought he was.likening it to a one shot cop. So not as rare I suppose but the unknowing miller would be.

[havingfitz]

@Fitz - why no comment about the Vengeful claim?

I missed it. Who claimed that?

[havingfitz]

OK...catching up from page 59.  Even though I post several times on this page I want to revisit from earlier than my last post.
 
So Wake affirms his result.  So we have a 1v1.  Clear cut unless fferyllt is a miller and doesn't know it.  So why anyone is voting other than fferyllt is beyond me.  The only way this can turn out bad is if fferyllt is a miller and that would just suck.  Outside of that...we look to be guaranteed to have outted our first scum.
 
@Eek....what made you change your mind about thinking Garmr had scumslipped?  And you said his ~scumslip wasn't why you were voting him...you had enough of a case outside of that (I'm paraphrasing from iirc) so is he still scum in your opinion?  Does that work with fferyllt scum?
 
And now Regfan is basing 2 scum on his confidence in his townreads.  Regfan...taking your strong townreads into account...who do you have as scum in a 2 person scum team and in a 3 person scumteam?
 
What Eek said.
 
Regfan...is Empire not a good enough player to get past you as scum? 

Do you have a lot of games with him as both alignments?  How much did he even post in this game for you to establish a read on him....I mean...he was a hydra.  That couldn't affect your read on him?

  Are you as confident in your ability to read fferyllt?  Seems like a lot of confidence to go against a a claim 1-shot cop who has a guilty.
 
And Garmr resigned to being my target tonight. 
 
What Eek said again.  Poses several of the thoughts I mention above wrt Regfan and Empire.  I assume there will be a follow on response from Regfan.
 
Interesting post by Wake.  Basically he has investigated what I would have considered a fairly strong consensus town read in fferyllt and assigned suspicions on two other generally regarded town reads (Regfan and ICE).  It's like bizarro mafia.
 
@SG wrt the "Vengeful claim"...I recalled seeing the word "venge-something" from my catch-up yesterday so I went looking for it after you mentioned it and even when I found Garmr using the word vengeful I did not see it as a clear claim.  He mentioned something about a vengeful modifier...who knows what he meant or was referring to.  He posts a lot of stupid shit.  And as it turns out it wasn't a claim so that might be why no one was discussing it.  Rather than trying to tarnish people for not commenting on the "claim"...maybe it would have been better to just explicitly ask Garmr if what you thought you saw was in fact what you saw.
 
@SG wrt Post 1492...what do you mean by "or scum shot herself and Fitz should be ashamed?"
 
@SG wrt Post 1492...see my comments wrt the "Vengeful claim" above. 
 
@ICE wrt Post 1502...how are you coming to the conclusion I am PROBABLY lying scum?  Were you taking Garmr's "claim" into account when you said that?  If feryllt winds up being an unknowing miller how would that affect your set up speculation?  Giving town a little more oomph and then tempering it with a role that has the potential to screw them over seems like a potential set up compromise.  What I KNOW is that there are two mason's and an odd-night vig in this game.  There could be a 1-shot cop.  There could be a protective role or a blocking role (i.e. JK or RB of either alignment)...or not.  Who knows?  How does any of this however point to me PROBABLY lying?  There's all kind of WIFOM that scum could be doing wrt my claim to fcuk with me/town.  What I also KNOW is that we better hope Wake is legit and fferyllt is scum.  If not...and if Wake is town not gambitting...town is at the edge of screwed.
 
@ICE wrt Post 1504...how is this post (specifically the first paragraph) affected by Garmr acknowledging he wasn't claiming vengeful?  Or that it was faked.  And what is"your plan" that is so close to failproof?
 
Eek...please state who you would have me target tonight (and do not say me).  That goes for everyone else too.
 
Regfan...ok...so you answer the Empire question.  What do you think of Empire/Street's? D1 scumread on your slot?
 
@SG wrt Post 1509...logic implies what wrt Garmr, that he is scum?  What does his ~fakeclaim tell you?
 
@ICE wrt Post 1519...why are Wake or I scum?    This feels like I am being set up when fferyllt flips scum.  What if she flips VT?  Does that make me town?  What is she is a miller...is it still a me or Wake are scum situation?  Why can't we both be telling the truth?  A 1-shot cop, 2 masons and an odd night vig do not seem out of the realm of possibility when 1) we don't know what scum has and 2) if fferyllt IS a miller...town is negatively impacted.  I.e you are making a lot of strong assumptions based on assumptions IMO.
 
 
@Garmr wrt Post 1522...I am reading the game.  I saw the word vengeful thrown out there and it did not come across as a claim to me (and apparently to others a well).  And saying I'm not paying attention if I'm not the main concern is a misrep.  I've posted regular catch ups and regularly discussed things not pertaining to me.  Also...with me being a claimed Vig still alive...it's a bit hard not to not be engaged more than normal from a me perspective given that me and my role are a subject of much debate.
 
@Garmr...what do you make of fferyllt believing your fakeclaim more than my vig claim?
 
@fferyllt wrt Post 1527...how do you get that Garmr is town from that ISO?  If anything, your second paragraph from the bottom (beginning with "This is a town ISO") could just as easily be describing scum IMO.
 
@fferyllt wrt Post 1532...I can deal with me being 50-50 from the perspective of others but I do not think Wake is a 1-4 shot of being scum.  At best it's a 1-3 shot (based on his claim).  The town cop with an innocent result option and the vanilla town option are the same thing = lying town.  So there are three possibilities for Wake.  Telling the truth as town (you're a miller), town lying (whether as a cop or a VT) and straight up scum.  And you're assuming the former?  You're assuming Wake and I are BOTH scum?  That makes no sense IMO.  Other than the 2 masons you’re saying all other claimed town PRs (cop and vig) are lying.  Seriously?
 
What do YOU think I should do N3?
 
@ICE wrt Post 1533...once again, WTF does set up speculation point to the unlikelihood of there being an

odd-night vig

, ~1-shot cop,

2 masons

, and a ~miller?  You don't know what scum did N1.  And why doesn't the miller factor in as a negative to the power you seem to think town can't possibly have?
 
@Regfan wrt Post 1551...KMA.  Also...are you saying I shouldn't shoot tonight?  If so...how is asking me to not shoot tonight any different from the possibility of ignoring town's recommendation on who to shoot (which I still have yet to receive iirc)?  Also...what do you mean that fferyllt's Post 1540 (where she votes TvK) is our "last guaranteed mislynch?"  IS TvK a mislynch?   Discounting Wake's claim on fferyllt, TvK was probably a strong frontrunner for today's lynch and many people view him as suspect.  But he's not a sure thing.  How is ignoring a 1v1 (

given the fact you think a miller doesn't have a chance in hell of being in this game

) a better option than trying to lynch an unknown (which despite all the opinions towards TvK...to the best of my knowledge he is in fact an unknown [see Kid A...see TSB])?
 
@Garmr wrt Post 1552...WTF?  You'd rather lynch an unknown over a cop guilty too?  FFS....this game is fcuked up.
 

My current reads

 
If fferyllt is scum:
Suspect - Regfan, Garmr
Wary of - ICE...............Wake (bus?  I doubt it, but...)
Town – Eek, SG, TvK
 
If fferyllt is miller:
Suspect - Garmr, TvK
Wary of - ICE, Regfan
Town - Eek, SG, Wake
 
If fferyllt is VT:
Suspect - Wake, TvK
Wary of - Garmr, ICE…………………..………….Regfan
Town - Eek, SG
 
 
Barring a consensus at to whom to shoot (or to not shoot at all) here is what I am planning:
 
If fferyllt is scum I'll target Garmr.
  
If fferyllt is VT I'll target Wake.
  
If fferyllt is a miller I'll let town decide.  And I will abide by whatever is decided (outside of shooting myself).
 
VOTE: fferyllt

[havingfitz]

^ useless posting. Thanks.

[havingfitz]

Are you 12 years old Garmr?

If you are town how about you contribute rather than post worthless shit and make excuses for sucking

If you are town...you're Scum's best friend.

[havingfitz]

SG...I disagree with your assessment of my questions to you.  I seem to recall you giving someone (Wake?) shit about not answering your questions earlier in the game.  Noted.
 
I can not believe there are 2 (non-fferyllt) votes on TvK.  We have a confirmed 1v1 situation and Garmr and Regfan want to do their own thing.  That makes zero sense.  If TvK were to somehow manage to be the lynch today that would most likely still leave town in the position of having to handle the Wake result on fferyllt tomrrow.  And depending on TvK's flip and the N3 results that could be too late.
 
@fferyllt wrt Post 1563...my request for more detail on how you are finding Garmr town in light of your ISO on him was genuine and I wasn't trying to offend.  His play has sucked and he is essentially no better than an active lurker.  He pops in...says something of no value...loiters a bit.  Zzzzzzz. 

So why all defensive?  I never said I'm reading folks better than you...I'm asking you to explain your Garmr town read in more detail.  it might help those of us who aren't seeing what you see   And yet you flip out over the question....while failing to answer.  Thanks.
 
@ICE wrt Post 1564...if fferyllt flips scum I'm not even going to consider targeting Eek.  WTF?  If she flips scum I will probably shoot Garmr.  Even if Garmr flipped town and scum shot me or some other town...that would leave town with a 4-2 advantage.  That would be MYLO.  OK...so maybe if fferyllt flips scum I shouldn't risk a shot tonight?  That would make it 5-2 and still leave town with a mislynch to absorb.  Unless there are only 2 scum but I can't see that being the case.
 
Really...the only situation where I would feel 100% confident taking a shot would be if fferyllt flipped VT.  Then I would target Wake 100%.
If fferyllt flips scum or miller though my shot might not be the best thing to do.  I wrong shot with her flipping miller would end the game (based on three scum) and a hit on scum would also be MYLO.
 
OK...So I'm leaning towards only shooting (Wake) if fferyllt flips VT.
 
If fferyllt flips scum or miller I'm leaning towards holding back.  And if she flips scum I'm not open to targeting TvK.
 
Thoughts?

P.edit several posts...

[havingfitz]

Still catching up. Will respond to Wake's tirades later. Crappy weather has f'd up my morning so it might be this afternoon before I get engaged.

Just wanted to say I did target Wake last night. I assume I was RB'd.

P.edit...bam! In memory of SG..think I'll grab some popcorn and see how this 1v1 plays out. Consider my vote on Wake.

[havingfitz]

^ TvK's claim?

[havingfitz]

I mean regfan I was thinking of lynching Tvk tommorow

I thought I'd missed something in the stuff I haven't read yet.

[havingfitz]

OK...thoughts on yesterday's end through today's events:

Wake...that was f'd up.  In hindsight...your "guilty" on fferyllt and continued adherance to that fake result (until you conveniently back out of your claim 7! minutes after Garmr's hammer) had not a shred of town to it.  What if there had been a real cop in the game?  Then your proposed gambit outs a PR town could have ill afforded to lose.  As it stands...you supposedly made yourself sole judge and jury on someone who most everyone else was leaning or committedly reading as town. 

From a scum perspective...it gave you (who were under some consideration as a suspect iirc) a chance to potentially out a cop (if your "gambit" didn't work out and there was a cop) and to eliminate a consensus town player who would have never been lynched (freeing up a NK for scum). 

From a town perspective it made no sense.  And then you leave us with the shred of doubt that you could be a doctor as we head in to last night.  I can only assume to make your existence today have a chance.  I was going to say it was to keep me from targeting you but as I assume scum have a RBer...that's not a concern.

Your claim to have not protected anyone (specifically me) makes absolutley no sense from a town perspective.  Why pass up on protecting a claimed Vig when there was no guarantee to would survive to D2?  And there was no one you felt strongly about as being town?  Bullshit.

And for you to claim SG was your top townread comes across very "woe is me" considering you protected someone you had a weaker town read on (Regfan) and you suspected SG as scum D1 (haven't looked to see if you did D2 or not).  So your actions...both protecting and not protecting make no sense.  I'm not even sure who you claimed to "protect" N2.

Regfan's counter seals your fate IMO and is laughable considering the risk you felt necessary by claiming cop.  I guess fakeclaiming is getting to your head. 

OK..had to step away from my post for ~hour and I come back to see the thread has exploded with Wake's arrival.  This is ridiculous.  Since you have come back in to the game this morning Wake you have essentially (and literally iirc) implicated everyone in the game as being scum.  WTF?  This is crazy and considering I believe Regfan's claim (which makes perfect sense) over syours (which makes no sense and was preceded by a lie) you are obviously just flailing about.  This is classic. 

The only thing I'm not sure about is where do we go after you.  I was on the fence about Garmr but his posts today and vote on you have me leaning away from him.  Not sure if he is prone to bussing but his comments/actions make perfect sense to me and are how I would be reacting. 

I've had a town read on Eek most or all of the game so I still feel good there.  If there are 3 scum as I am inclined to believe I'm looking at TvK (who was also my alternate to Kid if Kid flipped town) and by POE...ICE.  I'd like to hear what he has to say on recent developments too before I vote Wake. 

I would vote Wake now but I think he would self hammer.  I'd rather get all the info we can from his lynch and not have him on his own wagon. 

lol...I can't get over how he is flopping around today. 

Seriously...is there anyone he hasn't implicated other than himself today?

  The only player we know 100% has been guilty of lying, risking outing other PRs, and getting consensus town reads lynched?

If we are in LYLO as I believe....all of Wake's risks make perfect sense if he can just get one townie to believe his histrionics that he opened today with towards me (who I assume he thinks now is town?  :LOL: ) or towards Regfan (another person generally viewed as town iirc) who has "Oh Shit!" countered Wake's twilight backstepping (since he knew fferyllt would flip town).

tl:dr;

too fcuking funny.  Flailing Wake is scum.  My vote will be on him. 

[havingfitz]

I can't conceive there not being two NKs during Night 1 OR Night 3.

Seriously? Have you ever played in a game with a scum RB? Why are the single nk's so hard to fathom? Perhaps because that's not conducive to getting me lynched now that there is no room for error?

[havingfitz]

WTF are you going on about flavor for? What flavor are you talking about?

[havingfitz]

No way can there be a Vig, a Doc, and Two Masons in this game, especially when I know I'm the Town Shield.

You are in a 1v1 with Regfan. What good is set up speculation? How can a Vig..mason...doc setup be discounted when we have no idea how powerful scum are? We know they have daytalk and fmpov they have a role blocker. Setup speculation is white noise.

P.edit. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of self hammering. Don't worry yourself...you have my vote

[havingfitz]

Wake...don't talk to me about conviction liar. My vote is 100% going to be on you. I just don't want to see you have the pleasure of self hammering after all the wifom/flailing/jumping around you're doing today.

Keep squirming

Fferyllt deserves seeing you go through it.

[havingfitz]

MME, if you're fucking Town, take your vote off me and believe me!

Because I want to FIX my mistake, FOR TOWN ONLY AND NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR ORDER, I'll VOTE: unvote.

But, we NEED to lynch one of these three. I trust you, I need you to trust me.

Where's the conviction in your vote?

Eek asked you to unvote me before Regfan claimed. I doubt anyone would question you voting the person cc'ing you. Too funny you trying to appease Eek.

[havingfitz]

AtE

[havingfitz]

^ and she was your top town read. So you'd NEVER kill her....would you? And yet you failed to "protect" her. How does that even make sense?

Did you claim to protect anyone N2? I thought you said you did but I can't recall who.

[havingfitz]

If I were Scum, and Regfan were Town, I'd gank him. Not SG.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5502256

^ why would you kill someone you are painting as scum? (Which is everyone today)

[havingfitz]

You point your FoS at TvK and ICE, but now I'm certain you and Regfan are Scum, and MME.

Eek, I don't trust Fitz, but I am trusting you.

7 posts ago Eek was scum.Now you trust him

Flailing clinic. You'll say anything to squeeze a misvote from someone.

[havingfitz]

So that flurry of activity died suddenly. Look forward to hearing more from TvK and ICE.

[havingfitz]

This then gives fitz a shot tomorrow night,

Only if Wake is the RB or if we get RB tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

I've seen all I need to see.

VOTE: Wake

[havingfitz]

Was that a bus?

[havingfitz]

Fun fun. Thanks for the game mod. Enjoyed playing with everybody.

My favorite post of the game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5489533

Cheers