Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[TvK]

Sup guys.

VOTE: Orestes

I'm in the Central European Timezone btw.

[TvK]

I feel Squirrel Girl's vibe, but I can't say it feels as towny as others find it.

[TvK]

I feel Squirrel Girl's vibe, but I can't say it feels as towny as others find it.

Ok what exactly do you mean here by "feel Squirrel Girl's vibe?"

Her first posts had a weird combination of low content and nuts. And I never found that a very townish combination. But I like it that she's cutting down on the nuts.

In a weird way, I liked Garmr's posts even though he had to admit he was wrong.

I like Street Hassle for asking me questions. I always come up with better things when answering people's questions.

Nice work being noncommittal TvK. I mean it's fine for some reads but if it's all you're contributing.

I can dig this pokemon wagon. VOTE: Banksys Flareon

Can you explain why you dig Banksy's wagon?

[TvK]

Even though I don't really like ICE's vote because of a statement pulled out of its context, I'll keep my vote on Orestes. He voted without explaining why, so I assume he was like "oh ICE's weird reasoning is good enough ti jump on the wagon".

[TvK]

Also, I only trust people with insta-scum-detecting glasses.

[TvK]

I still don't like Orestes, but I'll give him some time to "go into some more next post", cause I'd really want to hear his reasoning about Banksy.

Also, Herself is really confusing with one head posting content that is actually readable and the other, I feel, kind of the opposite. One head to come across as town and the other to hunt scum?

[TvK]

Ok, let's go through what I missed.

I very much liked the conversation between SG and Street on page 5-6, however, I didn't approve of SG's conclusion, Street's reasoning seems legit to me.

@ Street: I want to work with Kid A, Garmr, SG, and Ice today. Do any of them miss the cut for you two?

Hmm, Kid A? Don't see how he should be in this group. Unless you played with him before...

I still like Garmr's way of posting, same with the Des head of Herself. Very good content in his posts.

I can't really read ICE at this moment. Especially his last couple of posts where he really focuses on Herself. But still, none of his points could maybe convince me to thinking Herself is scummy.

[TvK]

Oh, yeah, and I'm still waiting for Orestes' next post

[TvK]

Good thing Fitz is with us now. However, I don't like his post. More like a bunch of questions that had already been answered. And I got basically the same feeling about Kid A.

About Milked Eek. Hmm, I also got a strange vibe from that post. Dunno what to think of it yet...

[TvK]

EBWOP With his post, I mean his wall.

[TvK]

I'm about to crash but I've been conflicted on TvK for basically the entire game. I remember at some point he said he townread my slot for "asking him a question" and that raised my eyebrow

I like Street Hassle for asking me questions. I always come up with better things when answering people's questions.

I know I throw the word "like" around a bit too often, but here I didn't mean it in a townread-way. I just stated that I'm way more productive when people ask me questions throughout the game.

[TvK]

I also only have a few completed games in here, including 0 scum games.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time reading people in here. Too many people come across as town, but still I'm waiting for all of them to say something that I can find scummy. That's probably why my vote is still on Orestes and also why I don't like Kid A. To get town credit, they should come in here and post stuff. I don't see how 1/2 decent posts followed by 6 pages of silence belongs in the town read pile.

Same with TSO, he has given literally zero content. And with fitz as well, as I said before, his wall looks impressive, but it says nothing.

[TvK]

But lets run through this, who do you currently have read as town and why?

Street: No doubt about these guys, I don't think I need to explain why they are town. Clear and helpful content in nearly all of their posts.

Herself: Town, I like their way of hunting. I really liked #155.

Squirrel Girl: Never really could consolidate a good town read on her. Now that I read her ISO, I don't feel good about #113, where she says she has nothing but a town read on Street, and then suddenly she votes them in #126, while Street just didn't want to give away his reasons to the person he was voting. Then again in #209, she votes Fitz. She never stated if she thought Street was less scummy to go on to vote Fitz because she was convinced by Herself, even though she says she doesn't agree with the points made because of Fitz's meta. Does not look good, imo.

ICE: I like his #112 and #125. Even though I don't agree with his reasoning to vote Herself for most of the day, I do think he is town. But his latest posts reflect my thoughts, with #277 as a perfect example.

Garmr: A bit of this and a bit of that. I can't say I have a town read on him. I can't say I find him scummy. Absolute null at the moment.

Fitz: Still think he doesn't look good.

Regfan: Yup, you are exactly right, I haven't done anything townish yet in this game, thanks for pointing that out. I hope this looks a bit better to you.

TSO: No content = no towncred = in the case of this game, looking scummy.

Orestes: Unless he does actually sleep for 32 hours straight, every minute that goes by without him posting his long-awaited "go into more next post"-post is making him look worse. Liking my vote here.

Kid A: I still don't see how 4 one-liners make him look townish to nearly everyone. And in his last post he is even asking Herself's read on Street, while it was incredibly obvious that Herself found them town.

Milked Eek: Same as TSO.

[TvK]

Why is your vote still on Fitz? And do you have an idea about someone when you say 'but I feel we can do better'?

[TvK]

Street comes to mind. Honestly probably you too. I'm also a fan of the idea of making Orestes dead, and like that plan as well.

Street, no. Orestes, definitely yes.

[TvK]

Would be interested in joining the Milk wagon. Still, Orestes looks worse to me.

[TvK]

Also, where the heck did Kid A go?

[TvK]

anyway going to chuck a read down on a person I haven't already Tvk Null-scum

Regfan: Yup, you are exactly right, I haven't done anything townish yet in this game, thanks for pointing that out.

I hope this looks a bit better to you.

I also only have a few completed games in here, including 0 scum games.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time reading people in here. Too many people come across as town, but still I'm waiting for all of them to say something that I can find scummy. That's probably why my vote is still on Orestes and also why I don't like Kid A.

To get town credit, they should come in here and post stuff.

I don't see how 1/2 decent posts followed by 6 pages of silence belongs in the town read pile.

Same with TSO, he has given literally zero content. And with fitz as well, as I said before, his wall looks impressive, but it says nothing.

I bolded the important bits. These post seem all his thinking about is earning town cred. He's even suggesting kid and orestes should come here to earn some town cred which further implies that earning town cred is on his mind.

Also the way he votes and the way he speaks makes me feel like his just aiming to please. This last bits more of a gut feeling

Nah, I care about hunting down scum.

To start, the "I hope this looks better to you" was nothing more than an honest question to Reg asking if his read on me would change. Sure, if you want to call me out on desperately trying to get towncred, than I guess you got me there.

Then, the "I only have a few games completed"... What the heck are you trying to prove here? People were asking about my meta and wanted to know how I played as scum, so I pointed out that I have no completed scum games.

"To get towncred, they should come and post". Once again, not sure what I'm doing wrong. I just really want the inactives to start posting. And I have said multiple times before that the inactives don't look good to me.

[TvK]

TvK, you said that "Too many people were coming across as town" in Post 261, I only count 3, maybe 4(?) town reads in Post 280 with you having 6 "scummy" reads and 2 "null" reads (That's assuming Kid A is null not scum), so how are you "Reading too many people as town"?

This game seems to have so many town people because the people that make up for 90% of the posts are all solid townreads (excluding SG of whom I am still not sure what to think. Most of my scum reads have so few posts, that I actually thought there were less of them.

I feel like Orestes is not planning on coming back to this game, so I'm going through the thread again to see if I can find a better place for my vote.

[TvK]

weird hydra interaction, post #61 reads like it was written by someone who wanted to sound town and not someone who wanted to explain their point of view

You did post a few posts after #61. Why didn't you say anything about it back then?

[TvK]

I don't feel comfortable with calling Wake town after 19 pages of silence and then a couple of decent posts. Also, Bard, how are your scumpoints calculated? Do you immediatly call the person with the most scumpoints your top scumread? Is the total amount of scumpoints relative to factors like total number of posts? And do lurkers get just as many scumpoints as posters? If so, where does for example Quadraxis/Wake, who had exactly 1 post before you posted, rank?

[TvK]

293 Worst reads ever! Completely out of sync with mine. Not having ICE and SH as town by now seems way off. Having SG, TSO and Kid A as townreads, how is that possible??? Regfan is someone I am leaning town on myself, so this one is ok. Fitz and milked his scumreads. Really the player you are tunneling, but who isn’t obvious scum (I have him pretty neutral by now) and milked the lurker? Such scummy reads.
Got 4 townreads where 3 is easy to backpedal on later, saying they don’t look town after all.
2 neutrals who should be listed as town. Why? Because “confirmed” towns are bad for scum.
2 poor scumreads.

Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?
Herself is scum and should be lynched today-.

VOTE: Herself

Is it just me or is this absolutely not convincing at all? "Omg your reads suck so I hard, my reads are the only ones that are right"?

[TvK]

1. Yes, me and you disagreeing about who is town and who is scum is something that makes you scummier in my book.

As far as I understand your reasoning, this seems to me like the core of your case on Herself. I don't know what you are trying here, but in my book your only making yourself look worse. Unless you know yourself exactly who is town and who isn't, this is not a legit reason.

And I don't see why a townie would vote someone that in my eyes is town.

Once again, the same BS. What if ICE would walk in right now and vote Street? Or the other way around? Then they would be instascum, right? I love where my vote is at this moment.

[TvK]

This is what I talk about when I said wordtwisters. Annoying to argue with, because all they want to do is try to misrepresent. I'll correct one thing in your post because it is so ridiculously wrong:

What if ICE would walk in right now and vote Street? Or the other way around? Then they would be instascum, right?

WRONG. As I have said numerous times a single post doesn't make someone instant scum or instant town. It is the sum of it. If one of those came in and voted the other I would put a point on the scumside of one of them, and perhaps try to understand why he suddenly was thinking this.

Keep coming at me with wordtwisting arguements though. I have you as likely scum anyways...

Thanks for correcting this and not addressing the most important part of my post, namely why you are thinking Herself is scum. Everything you have against Herself is either "scum because their opinion is not the same as mine" or "i don't like because what they say does not align with something that one of my townreads said". Also, the biggest part of your reasoning could easily fall apart if your other reads were wrong (for example agreeing with SG would seem scummy in your eyes, because SG is scum in your book), and believe me or not, it is possible to have wrong reads. Your case might look really good to yourself, but you'll have to do a lot better to convince the players in here.

Then, now that SG is "rubbing you the right way". Will you have to reconsider your reads? Do SG's scumreads get extra scumpoints? Do people who agree with her get extra townpoints?

What about me? You have me as your third biggest scumread, probably second biggest by now. Can you please point out to me what made you think this way? And at the end of the day, the two people that disagree with you are "even worse than yesterday". You can already give me an extra scumpoint, because I am disagreeing with you again.

[TvK]

My reads (haven't changed a lot since #280:

TOWN

Street
Herself
ICE
Regfan

LEANING TOWN

Squirrel Girl, I'll have to admit that her playing style threw me off at the beginning, but now I'm fairly sure that she's town.

NULL

LolWagons
Kid A
Garmr, although I didn't like his very soft attack on me in #391, that felt a bit forced, trying to do something townish.

LEANING SCUM

Eek
Fitz, the fact that we haven't heard from him in a while makes him look worse imo.

SCUM

Bard, not for having an opinion I don't agree with. He's trying to make cases when there are none. His entire attack at Herself, SG and me feels so fabricated, nothing natural at all. Desparately trying to look town.

[TvK]

I can't catch you on really doing something scummy, but I can't seem to get a solid townread on you. You occasionally say something about your reads, and you've asked a few questions. But you never really go deeper into something. I sometimes find your questions too careful, as if you want to ask some, but you're not really interested in getting an answer. The same with your scumreads. You say you don't like Bard, but the only things you have done is agreeing with me that his reasoning was weird and you gave him your reads. You just called him scum without really questioning what his reasons were. You had a little conversation with Eek, but all you did was answer his questions without putting some heat on him, even though your vote is still on him.

And to answer your final question: I would want Bard lynched most, followed by Fitz.

P-EDIT: GOt quadruple ninja'd, will address those posts in a bit.

[TvK]

To make it clear, my previous post was an answer to Garmr's #565

[TvK]

@TvK wrtPost 564...what would your read on me be if you weren't factoring in my not having posted in a while (Please note my sig block ). 

The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment). In 2 posts you have given your reads, that mostly include null reads with a dash of leaning town. Your latest readlist looks a bit better (in terms of more balanced out), even though I don't like it that you find Wake and Eek town, when they only posted a little bit of content on the last couple of pages.

[TvK]

Garmr, do you always react this heavy when someone calls you scummy? I actually found Fitz's points about you quite valid, and not as ignorant or omgus as you call it. Also, I don't like your explanation for your case on Fitz. So he's scummy because he was not going for the lurker, but rather for a player that posted a lot of content?

[TvK]

Caught up again. I still don't like Garmr, but I also don't think we can avoid an Eek lynch. Will post more detailed stuff later.

[TvK]

I agree with every bolded statement in Eek's #679. Especially the one about the meta. When Garmr mentioned his scumgame (can't remember the exact #), I read the game and I must say, his playstyle has a lot in common with what he's doing here. I'm also not impressed at all by his response to Eek big post, especially because he seems so confident that he really "debunked" it. Guess it's time to hop on the wagon, took me long enough to find a good place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garmr

[TvK]

TvK

———✹

You haven't contributed as much as others. Why?

———✹

What is your read of me? You've neglected to do so, even in your read post (280).

———✹

Currently, is Havingfitz leaning more Town or Scum in your opinion?

1. That's my way of playing the game. I'm not the guy that will start a huge case on someone on page 4 or that starts tunnelling people the moment they seem a little scummy. I do think that the things I say are useful and clear.

2. You're complete null to me. You provide a lot of information from tons of questions. Now I just want you to use this information to also actively do something.

3. He's leaning scum, but Garmr and Bard are my biggest scumreads. I already said why I didn't like him and my opinion hasn't changed because of the fact that we are both on the Garmr wagon.

[TvK]

anyone else starting to feel ICEninja as scum

Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2.

[TvK]

Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?

Can't you conclude from this that Garmr has to be scum and Fitz and Eek are probably both town?

[TvK]

Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?

Quick check shows bard would have had a hard time justifying a vote on fitz, and fitz wasn't going to self-vote. TvK passing up Fitz for Garmr makes the least sense though. Based on his ISO fitz was consistently scummier than garmr until #580 and then he kind of awkwardly transposes them, then votes Garmr.

Unvote
Vote: TvK

I'd like him to explain his actions re: Eek/Garmr/Fitz wagons

- Des

I used to have scumreads on each of the three wagons going on now. I dropped my scumread on Eek when he started posting (around #633), because his content struck me as very townish, and my main reason for suspecting him was his lurking/inactivity.

Garmr is a different story. I was too busy focusing on the lurkers at the start of the game (note my constant suspicion of Orestes and the fact that I never liked Eek or TSO), that I felt fine with having a nullread on Garmr even though he never really contributed, but at least he did post something. I still didn't think about him as Garmr when I got thrown off by Bard's posts that seemed really scummy to me. But then Garmr asked me some questions in #565, to which I responded in #571. I don't know if you can really notice it in the post itself, but I went in with Garmr as null and when I finished writing it, I had convinced myself that Garmr's play had been fishy all game long.

Now Fitz comes into the equasion. My scumread on Fitz was a combination of one of my strongest townreads (you) constantly attacking him without him being able to, in my opinion, say something townish. But from the moment that I thought Garmr was looking scummier, Fitz suddenly looked a bit better in the light I was looking at the game now. Both Eek's and Fitz's posts seemed more than enough to me to join the Garmr wagon.

[TvK]

My reads (haven't changed a lot since #280:

TOWN

Street
Herself
ICE
Regfan

LEANING TOWN

Squirrel Girl, I'll have to admit that her playing style threw me off at the beginning, but now I'm fairly sure that she's town.

NULL

LolWagons
Kid A
Garmr, although I didn't like his very soft attack on me in #391, that felt a bit forced, trying to do something townish.

LEANING SCUM

Eek
Fitz, the fact that we haven't heard from him in a while makes him look worse imo.

SCUM

Bard, not for having an opinion I don't agree with. He's trying to make cases when there are none. His entire attack at Herself, SG and me feels so fabricated, nothing natural at all. Desparately trying to look town.

Up to here it's pretty clear where TvK stands on Garmr and Fitz--Fitz is scummy and Garmr is null. He even clarifies further here:

I can't catch you on really doing something scummy, but I can't seem to get a solid townread on you. You occasionally say something about your reads, and you've asked a few questions. But you never really go deeper into something. I sometimes find your questions too careful, as if you want to ask some, but you're not really interested in getting an answer. The same with your scumreads. You say you don't like Bard, but the only things you have done is agreeing with me that his reasoning was weird and you gave him your reads. You just called him scum without really questioning what his reasons were. You had a little conversation with Eek, but all you did was answer his questions without putting some heat on him, even though your vote is still on him.

And to answer your final question: I would want Bard lynched most, followed by Fitz.

P-EDIT: GOt quadruple ninja'd, will address those posts in a bit.

Engaging Garmr as if he's clearly uncertain about him, and declarative that he wants Bard first, Fitz 2nd.

I was thrown off by Bard's really strange way of scumhunting. And yes, I still prefered Fitz over Garmr, but Garmr's reactions to some posts adressing him in the enxt couple of posts made him look worse to me.

To make it clear, my previous post was an answer to Garmr's #565

Right. Approaching Garmr with uncertainty, got it.

I said in my previous post that I got quadruple ninja'd, just pointing out which post I was actually respinding to.

@TvK wrtPost 564...what would your read on me be if you weren't factoring in my not having posted in a while (Please note my sig block ). 

The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment). In 2 posts you have given your reads, that mostly include null reads with a dash of leaning town. Your latest readlist looks a bit better (in terms of more balanced out), even though I don't like it that you find Wake and Eek town, when they only posted a little bit of content on the last couple of pages.

Confirming again that he thinks Fitz is scum. Definitely scummier than Garmr, who he just reminded us that he can't get a grip on and is thus null.

Garmr, do you always react this heavy when someone calls you scummy? I actually found Fitz's points about you quite valid, and not as ignorant or omgus as you call it. Also, I don't like your explanation for your case on Fitz. So he's scummy because he was not going for the lurker, but rather for a player that posted a lot of content?

Caught up again. I still don't like Garmr, but I also don't think we can avoid an Eek lynch. Will post more detailed stuff later.

Wait, what? What do you mean "still don't like Garmr?" Weren't you scumreading Fitz? How did an argument between a scum and a null read turn the null read into a scum read?

I said in #580 that I didn't like Garmr's reaction (didn't like = find scummy), and I also said I found Fitz's points valid (slight towncredit). I didn't immediatly respond, but Garmr's answer to this post, "yea I always do like this" and "oh no wait here a scum game where I didn't" (I already said that I didn't like his meta in the post where I voted him) were far from good responses.

I agree with every bolded statement in Eek's #679. Especially the one about the meta. When Garmr mentioned his scumgame (can't remember the exact #), I read the game and I must say, his playstyle has a lot in common with what he's doing here. I'm also not impressed at all by his response to Eek big post, especially because he seems so confident that he really "debunked" it. Guess it's time to hop on the wagon, took me long enough to find a good place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garmr

Wait,

what?!?

Where was all of this when Garmr was null? I don't buy that the last breaths of what had just been an inevitable lynch have completely changed your perception of Garmr that you had clearly built throughout the thread.

Eek is town, Garmr is town, Fitz might be town but could still be scum (and needs to shoot tonight--preferrably Silver Bard or Kid A).

- Des

[TvK]

anyone else starting to feel ICEninja as scum

Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2.

so do you think iceninja could be scum yes/no

The post was addressed to you. So I think you could be scum.

[TvK]

Town

[TvK]

With Fitz town The silver bard and Tvk drop down to scum due to there recent behavior revolving around the wagons. I will put eek in town due to the effort his putting in where scum would of just jumped onto fitz. Talking about fitz expect a 5 post rant or so from the dead thread about him being a bad vig as he'll probably shoot me tonight.

Soo, TSB and I drop down to scum because we were the ones not on the Fitz wagon? That one that turns out to be town?

Anyway where to place my vote.

In post 778, Street Hassle wrote:
Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?


Can't you conclude from this that Garmr has to be scum and Fitz and Eek are probably both town?

Lol why would I have to be scum in this scenario in any of these scenarios we don't know anyone's roles (If your town like me) we won't see interactions until we get a couple of flips. This seems to me scum logic in trying to push a mislynch

Street says himself that he doesn't think Eek is scum. You say that yourself too. So the only two options left would be that either both Fitz and Eek are town and you are scum, or that all three of you are town. And I'm willing to take my chances betting on the first option.

TvK

———✹

You haven't contributed as much as others. Why?

———✹

What is your read of me? You've neglected to do so, even in your read post (280).

———✹

Currently, is Havingfitz leaning more Town or Scum in your opinion?

1. That's my way of playing the game. I'm not the guy that will start a huge case on someone on page 4 or that starts tunnelling people the moment they seem a little scummy. I do think that the things I say are useful and clear.

2. You're complete null to me. You provide a lot of information from tons of questions. Now I just want you to use this information to also actively do something.

3. He's leaning scum, but Garmr and Bard are my biggest scumreads. I already said why I didn't like him and my opinion hasn't changed because of the fact that we are both on the Garmr wagon.

It's funny how I am a scum read to him while bard and fitz are a scum read to him at the same time I wouldn't mesh with any of these as a scum team he didn't think this one through.

So now I suddenly do have to think about interactions? I thought we couldn't do that without a couple of flips?

anyone else starting to feel ICEninja as scum

Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2.

Why not go for him now?

Because he had 1 vote when I said this and you had 4. So you're my lynch for today and I'll look into Kid A tomorrow.

VOTE: TVK

[TvK]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

[TvK]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

Are you seriously 1v1ing Garmr right now?

- Des

Yes.

[TvK]

Kid A, show me where "Scum that don't have a nightkill" fulfills normal requirements? I'm a reviewer on the site and wouldn't let that pass since the definition of a mafia goon here is that it has the ability to night kill, there's no mafia role that differs from that and therefore all of the mafia roles would have to be "non-normal" which isn't possible.

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

Uhhhhhh, I remember you repeatedly stating you had a town-read on Herself so why do you want them shot now?

PEdit: Eh, that's alright Street, if you can get his reads if he pops on that'll suffice.

This had not really anything to do with my read on Herself, but I was just asking Fitz if he would shoot Herself (his biggest scumread all game) if Garmr flips scum.

[TvK]

Not sure what to say at the moment. Bard's self-hammer was horrible. Kid A suddenly coming in and voting Fitz does not look good in my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say Fitz is town.

[TvK]

About TvK it feels like he's semi-lurking, because he's the only player I keep forgetting is in this game. He'll post a little blurb here and there occasionally, but it does little to give his slot any weight or credibility, because he's not contributing enough and could be seen as Scummy by others. He makes these cute and tiny statements bundled up in a nice little package, but where's the beef? The meat? The substance to it?

I already told you that that's just my style of playing. But what about yourself Wake? When are you finally going to get really involved? You just occasionally drop in to ask another ton of questions, followed by another huge post with the strangest reads in this game. The same goes for the end of last dazy. It was quite obvious that either Bard or Garmr was going to be the lynch, but then you just enter and vote Kid A (which also was your first vote all game long)... Ok, I can see why you think he's scummy, but how was Kid A ever going to be the one lynched at the end of the day? You have no involved yourself even once in the forming of the wagons. You haven't even told us once who you actually found most likely to be scum (of those people that had votes on them). And now you just waltz back in with yet again a set of new questions and a post which says ICE (almost a universal townread) is your top scumread, followed by Ffery and Regfan (once again, universal townreads). What about Kid A? You know, that player you wanted to see lynched yesterday.

[TvK]

Kid A is my main scumread, starting from the end of last day when he came in and let know that he was suspicious of ICE. A little later he comes up with a very strange theory and concludes that Herself is scum, and finally just hops on the Bard wagon (of who he never gave a read, not that he ever gave reads all game long), a wagon that was mainly driven by Herself, his main scumread apparently. Then finally he just hops on the Bard wagon, without really having an explanation except for the fact that he found Orestes scummy.

Also, the only thing he said about Fitz all game long, is that he's not an awful lynch near the end of the day. Well, Fitz went on and shot Herself, Kid A's scumread, remember? And now Fitz is scum? So many inconsistencies.

[TvK]

Reg, what do you think of Wake scumreading you?

[TvK]

So TvK you asked reg about wake what's your opinion of him?

Sorry, Thursdays are really busy for me. I'm not really convinced Wake is scum, but if he's town, his attitude really needs to change. Also Kid A's last post really really bugs me. I'll post something more detailed later.

[TvK]

Remember that TvK said that

nothing

ICEninja posted could even

maybe

convince him of Herself's guilt. That was during Day 1, and

no one

besides the Mason knew there were Masons in the game. Only after the fact when Night 1 resolved did we learn of her role. ...so, why was TvK so eager to protect her Day 1? It couldn't be because he's Scum, because Scum didn't know there were Masons, either. He does question and comment on MME, Fitz, Kid A and Orestes. That comes off as being Townish, I guess. What does bother me a bit though is when he mentioned that he's had zero Scum games. I've heard that line from people who were Scum in that game they were in before.

I'm not the only person that had Herself as one of their top town reads during day 1. And once again, people were asking for my scum-meta, so I was just pointing out that I had no completed scum games.

One problem I'm dealing with it that he wanted Orestes (Bard) dead, and Bard flipped Town. Yet he defended Herself and distracted people from her lynch, and she was a Mason, and no one knew there were Masons Day 1 yet he continued to defend her. He said Bard's attack against Herself felt fabricated. His annoyance with the inactives comes off as Townish, too. Again he defends Herself against Bard in (510). It could be that Bard, TvK, and Herself was an all-Town slapfest. In (280) he has Herself pegged as Town, that he really liked their way of hunting, especially their (155).

I don't know where you're getting it that Herself was going to be lynched. All game long, Herself has had only 2 people voting them, Fitz (twice) and Bard, both even at seperate moments. At that moment I had a lot more troubles with the fact that Bard's case felt forced and not that that case happened to be on Herself.

The real kicker is this quote right here: "The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment)" (576)." Again he's defending Herself and telling off Fitz, trying to get him to look elsewhere. I think TvK is a Mason who tried his best to defend the other Mason Day 1, but somehow Mafia got a whiff of Herself's scent and killed her Night 1, and, I'm guessing, they already plan (or have already planned) to try and kill TvK Night 2.

It all fits perfectly in your theory, but I was just pointing out to Fitz why I thought he was scummy. What does intrigue me is that you think that Herself was the scum kill. Does that mean that you think that Fitz is lying? Or that Fitz and the scum both shot Herself. Wouldn't that be quite stupid because it was incredibly obvious that Fitz was going to shoot Herself?

I think TvK is a Town Mason, and that Scum have already figured it out before me, and that he is indeed their target tonight. All they need to do is look at who mysteriously kept defending the hidden Mason Day 1 to draw conclusions. I know I chastised Garmr about talking on Town Masons, but this is important and I had the scary realization that if I've figured it out with such little data, Scum with all their advantageous knowledge discerned it far faster than I have. If we have a Doc/protective role in this game, I strongly urge that TvK is defended tonight. TvK, if you're indeed a Town Mason, it doesn't really matter anymore to stay quiet about it. If you're Mason then you should claim right now and lead the town, and if you're lying I suspect we'll find out soon enough should another dead Townie flip Mason.

I'll just say it now: I am NOT a Mason. It feels weird to me that I almost automatically seem to be either a mason or scum, no way inbetween. I don't quite know what more to say at this moment...

So, reviewing all of this, I cannot in good faith support his wagon at this moment. I will not push for his lynch, but defend him from it. If there was a range from 1-10, I'd give him a 9/10. That's how strong I feel about his read at the moment.

Well, you now know that you're strong feeling about my read is wrong. What does that make me in your eyes? Does this change your reads on anyone else? Do you plan on going to look for a mason again?

[TvK]

My first thoughts on Kid A's case: bad, leaning towards horrible.

[TvK]

What I don't like about Kid A:

As I said before, Kid A has said nothing about Fitz all day 1 long, except for "he would not be an awful lynch", immediatly followed by "he is probably town so he is an awful lynch". He never hopped on the Fitz wagon because he was too busy voting Street and Herself (much better choices, yeah). He never said anything about Fitz's claim either. At the end of the day, he just joined the Bard wagon.

Then day 2 starts and he starts off with immediatly voting Fitz. After all of his crazy-ass theories during day 1 (note that he even speculated about a scum team without a night kill), he apparently was unable to grasp that it still is possible that Fitz is our vig even though only one person died during the night. Enough people have speculated about what happened already. And then he even calls Fitz a liar in #882, but when he notices he's drawing too much attention to himself, he pulls off a classic Kid A, and disappears for a couple of days again.

His case on ICE is horrible. Also, let's look at all his previous mentions of ICE, and compare it to his "case". The first thing he calls him out on is that he mentions the fact that the scum team have daytalk. Well, Kid A had noticed this and used it as a joke reason for his RVS post (#23, I thought his smiley was included to imply that it was a joke). Then, we go a long time without hearing from him, but then in #474, he calls ICE genuine town. And then suddenly in #770, after another three days without him posting, he asks if anyone else is starting to find ICE scummy...

And then his final posts. Once again, he had disappeared for a couple of days. Then he comes in, says he's not scum, has apparently concluded that ICE and Fitz are scum, makes up a crappy case and just hopes that everyone will follow him.

So Reg, if it makes you feel more comfortable, I'll vote Kid A;

VOTE: Kid A

[TvK]

TvK's continued avoidance of mentioning Garmr is bad, really bad given his "I'll 1 v 1 him" yesterday, if he'd turned around and said something like "I re-read him overnight and think my suspicions there might be wrong" I'd have found it understandable but the lack of mention means that his read would be the same (Strong scum read on him) but isn't one that he's pursuing.

Yes, my read on him is still the same. But what do you except me to do now? I tried yesterday to convince people that Garmr was scum, but apparently I was unable to do so. Garmr's play has been exactly the same as yesterday (except for his move to the Wake wagon and reasons he brought up to do so, which I thought were quite bad), so I also can't bring up new points why I think he's scum. But well, the scum team doesn't exist of Garmr alone, and I guessed looking for the other members couldn't hurt town too much.

[TvK]

And yes, I can see how Wake's reasoning was terrible to get a claim out of Kid A. But I actually do believe Kid A is scum, and I would have loved to see a claim. And I especially do not like the fact that Kid A is kind of let off the hook because Wake's thought process sucks.

[TvK]

Is there actually anyone who sees me and Kid A on the same team? Of the people that have both of us as their top scum reads?

[TvK]

@TvK + ICEninja - you guys seem to be the strong holdouts of Kid A scum. With that as a belief, and with what just happened to that wagon, which votes do you find suspect? Do you think a Kid A scum wagon was dismantled onto a Wake scum wagon, or a Wake town wagon? And, if so, what do you think of the people whose votes moved?

I can understand Eek's turnaround, but I don't agree with it. He seemed pretty convinced of Kid A as scum at the start of day 2, claiming that he had been saying the same stuff about him as ICE had done during day 1. He voted Kid A and added "until I've reread Garmr", so I was assuming that Garmr and Kid A were his top scum reads. In #1003 he is still convinced of Kid A scum. But then he starts attacking Wake, who I am still thinking just did something retarded but not necissarily scummy, and away he goes from the Kid A wagon onto Wake. I can see his points, but I don't agree.

Another thing I would like to bring up about Eek is his read on both me and Garmr. Eek was the driving force behind the Garmr wagon at the end of day 1, which I definitely approved of. Then at the start of day 2 he votes Kid A (still fine by me as he had expressed his doubts about him) and promised to reread Garmr. However, in his latest reads list, Garmr is suddenly in the "not so sure anymore"-category, without any indication why he switched from 99% scum to this and I am among his scum reads Wake and Kid A, even though the only thing he has said about me is that I would be scum bussing my buddy Garmr at the end of day 1. But now he just put me next to Wake and Kid A by just saying that he likes Reg's reasons to suspect me...

Finally, I do think Garmr's switch of wagons is suspect. His reasons to jump on Kid A weren't very convincing (Kid A's posting got worse/I'm confused with him/his content is minimal/shit will be sorted out if he gets lynched), but his switch to Wake is just bad. I'm really toying with the idea of a Kid A/Garmr/fornowunknownthird scum team. Garmr was happy to sit on the early wagon of his scumbuddy, but it went a bit too fast with Kid A suddenly going to L-1. Luckily for him, Wake screwed himself up and Garmr immediatly took the first possibility to change to another wagon. Once again, he tries to justify his swap, not by sheeping other people's reason (which would possibly make him look scummy), but he tries fabricate his own reasons again. But let's face it, those reasons were bad, forced and unconvincing.

P-Edit: Holy shit, 12 posts while I was writing this. Will look at them when I finish dinner.

[TvK]

I understand it if you haven't read all my posts in detail as it was one line in a bigger post I think. Main reason garm is in my doubt pile is that he breadcrumbed herself/sg as mason on day 1. Why would garmscum do that? How does that fit in my idea of garmscum? It doesn't. One of my main points against garm was that he sheeped herself and buddied up to sg. This fits in the whole "garm thought they were masons" thing.

He breadcrumbed on the 4th page of this thread when literally nothing had happened, that doesn't really prove anything to me. And even if he was genuine about it, why would he out it? Did he think he was going to be under pressure? He even said that last time when he pointed out something about masons it backfired, so wouldn't he be more careful about it now?

[TvK]

@Wake

Why does your gut like Garmr that much?

[TvK]

@TvK

….do you have any completed scum games on this site?

No, sorry.

[TvK]

Kid A's reaction to my vote was weird, because he didn't respond to it at all. Like he pretended it didn't exist.

Kid A's only reaction to any vote on him was his "hi guys im not scum so it would be gr8 if everyone voting me unvotes me". What does that make him? Town or scum?

[TvK]

TvK, since you're here...

...do you think going to go pay a parking ticket is an appeal to emotion?

That's a new one.

No, but unless we're 10 minutes from the end of the day, I don't think it's necessary to post it in here.

Garmr and TvK, do you get the feeling that ICEninja is bringing stuff up to distract people and shift attention elsewhere?

...Ffery, if you're around here somewhere, please answer this question as well.

No, I don't.

[TvK]

Garmr needs rope v2.0

Garmr's read on Eek:

Day 1
1. Eek is scummy because he hasn't posted (same reasons why Garmr thought Orestes was scummy).
2. Eek is scum because he made a case on Garmr ("one of Fitz and Eek is scum, highly likely both"). However, Garmr has debunked it and torn it apart and even literally said. Despite this effort, Garmr still was the second biggest wagon at the end of day 2. To underline how much crap the case of Eek was, Garmr literally said "I also really can't be fucked being in a game where cases like eeks are considered semi decent. It was horrible and debunked with one post."
3. Fitz claims Vig. Eek is town for putting in effort to make a case instead of just jumping on Fitz. Garmr consideres himself a target for Fitz's nightkill (who knows why?). Garmr's main scumread now is TvK.
Day 2
1. Eek needs another look because his wagon (of 4 votes) dismantled too quickly.
2. Garmr likes Eek's case on Kid A (if one of them is scum, the other is town. Seeing that he put his vote on Kid A shortly afterward, he has to assume Kid A is scum and Eek is town).
3. Repeats point 2 again (and adds that the only suspicion he had of Eek was that his wagon dismantled too quiclkly).
4. Eek votes Wake and Garmr tries to follow him with a badly fabricated case of himself.
5. Garmr takes Eek's comment (hammer away) quite literally and hammers Kid A.
Day 3
1. Eek and TvK were the scum on Kid A's wagon.
2. Thinks Eek is twisting his words after his really hard to understand pun.
3. Once again, Eek's case is weak. Getting ready for more debunking. Informs everyone again how easily he debunked the last case on him.

I think Eek summarised this perfectly: if you suspect Garmr, you will be suspected by him.

Garmr's read on TvK

Day 1
1. TvK is nullscum.
2. TvK is null (could reach town with a little more effort).
3. Fitz claims Vig. Bard and TvK drop down to scum because of recent behavior. (To clarify, this behavior was not being on the Fitz wagon and voting Garmr at the time).
4. TvK is scum (one of the reasons being not going for Kid A that day, even though it was obvious that Garmr was my main scumread).
5. TvK is still scum, but Garmr rather votes Bard.
Day 2
1. Garmr points out that Regfan convinced him to get my wagon (a huge 2-vote wagon) over to a mislynch on Bard.
2. TvK is Garmr's strongest scumread, the second time even right above Kid A. Did Garmr simply forget to vote me? Or would he be too suspicious if he was the only one doing so.
3. Garmr starts to lean more towards Kid A, because TvK's posting has improved (I indeed had said nothing bad about Garmr for a bit, ergo my posting improved. Seriously, this is got to be the way he is thinking).
4. Garmr asks Eek what he would say if he said that TvK was a townread now.
5. Garmr apparently thought I was a Cop or something ("The theory revolved around you knowing I was town day 2 through certain night actions and being embarrassed as shit talking about me"). I go back to the scumlist for still finding Garmr scummy.
Day 3
1. TvK and Eek are Garmr's top scumreads.
2. Garmr votes TvK, because he feels I should have pushed him harder at the start of day 2.

What have we learned?
1. If you don't say anything (bad) about Garmr, you move up in his townlist. This works the other way around too.
2. If you are Garmr's top scumread, you practically never will have his vote on you.
3. Garmr's puns are incredibly hard to understand. Not understanding them equals misrepping.

If this is not the way scum plays, than I don't know at all how they do... Also, mind the fact that Garmr loves bragging about himself, and that he's constantly reminding us all of how brilliant his scum skills are. Why would town brag about their skills as scum in the game?

And finally the thing that absolutely bugged me most of all were his final two quotes:

But to be honest I really don't mind getting mislynched at this point because it will be obvious that your scum.

eek I'm going to give you some advice.

If you some how are town and you really are content on lynching me. I would put all your effort in getting me lynched today and not in mylo or lylo that's were i'm at my weakest

. This way you won't fuck up town chances of winning.

What. The. Fuck? Town has already mislynched twice this game. We are incredibly close to LyLo is mislynch again. How will it ever be in the best interest of town if he would just let himself get lynched? It won't even prove that Eek is scum if he gets you lynched! I simply cannot, cannot see Garmr as town anymore.

VOTE: Garmr

[TvK]

Also, happy birthday Eek.

[TvK]

I will comment on the Wake situation later in the afternoon.

[TvK]

I am on Wake's side for this one. I don't see a reason not to believe him. If he turns out to be lying, than he'll be shot tonight and I'll never play a game with him again. You can count me as a vote on ffery, but ofcourse I will let you take your time to reevaluate your reads.

[TvK]

I am on Wake's side for this one. I don't see a reason not to believe him. If he turns out to be lying, than he'll be shot tonight and I'll never play a game with him again. You can count me as a vote on ffery, but ofcourse I will let you take your time to reevaluate your reads.

This post assumes he could be town and lying, but totally leaves out the possibility he's scum and lying.

I don't think my readthrough will change this read.

Yes, I think Wake is either town and telling the truth, or town and lying. No, I cannot see Wake as scum.

[TvK]

I'm talking about the situation as it is right now. At this very moment I'm not doubting Wake at all. He comes out with the guilty and I believe him.

[TvK]

What if this one scenario you didn't seem to take into account happened, ffery? That one where I am actually town?

[TvK]

For ffery's scenario's, Fitz vig + Wake has a guilty is by far the most probable in my opinion. Too much townpower? I'm still assuming that both scum and Fitz targeted Herself night 1, or Fitz was roleblocked and scum shot Herself. Masons + weak vig + weak cop seems perfectly reasonable to me. That leaves 2 other scum, apart from ffery. I have already expressed my thoughts about Garmr multiple times. I still think he is scum. His latest "I am going to treat every game after this like a scum game. I seem much more useful when i have a scum mindset and i pick up things better" seriously rubs me the wrong way. He has made so many comments trying to be as town as possible that I cannot believe any of them anymore.

As for the last scum, I kind of have to say that SG is my main suspect there. Not because of something she did herself, but because of the way Garmr interacted with her.
#49: defends SG while his vote is on her
#58: doesn't like it that other people defend SG (lolwut?)
#91, #162: SG climbs the townladder
#234: doesn't like the pressure Herself put on SG (strange because apparently he had already figured out they were mason partners...)
#373: her wagon is a no go zone too
#396: says there is no obvious town day 1, what would he call SG then at that point?
#560: SG #1 townread
#889: horrible post about why SG is a mason, safe to say it's utter bullcrap now
#1410: SG is still his top townread

He did the classic "vote scumbuddy in RVS" and then SG has always been his top townread. Reasons for that? Couldn't find too many... Note how he also once said that he "liked talking to her", even though they practically never conversated in this game after the first couple of pages. Could they maybe be talking somewhere else?

[TvK]

I also guess the 24 hours are over.

VOTE: ffery

[TvK]

What if this one scenario you didn't seem to take into account happened, ffery? That one where I am actually town?

Who do you think should be in your place?

I know you won't agree with me, but I'd say Garmr.

[TvK]

What if this one scenario you didn't seem to take into account happened, ffery? That one where I am actually town?

Who do you think should be in your place?

I know you won't agree with me, but I'd say Garmr.

You betray yourself here.

Please tell me how I betrayed myself.

[TvK]

What if this one scenario you didn't seem to take into account happened, ffery? That one where I am actually town?

Who do you think should be in your place?

I know you won't agree with me, but I'd say Garmr.

You betray yourself here.

Please tell me how I betrayed myself.

Because you know I'm town. And you know that my conviction you are scum is going to bite if you don't manage to win this over the next night phase.

All of that was bundled into the way you phrased that. You want me to soften my stance, so you reach out to me. I reached out first with that slight "you could be town" tone to see what echoes I'd get back.

You ask me who would be my place, assuming you are town (because that's what you're theories reflect), so I answered that question. And this is my honest answer.

[TvK]

Fitz and SG, TvK is a lynch I'd rate as 90%+ of being scum.

So, 90+%. If Fitz shoots me tonight and I flip town, who would be scum?

[TvK]

Ask yourself these questions:

1) Why the HELL is Fitz still alive?!

2) why the HELL did he decide to not target and kill me after I claimed Doc who said I NEVER protected him?!

2) Why the HELL is there still only ONE kill each Night with supposedly Mafia AND a Town Vig?!

1. Because guys like you would want him lynched

2. Because if Fitz would've shot and he'd hit town, we would have lost by now

3. I still believe that Fitz and scum both targeted Herself night 1. And Fitz was smart enough to let town decide on who to lynch today instead of taking a shot himself night 3 and probably losing the game

[TvK]

I am willing to lynch Wake, but I want to hear from everyone before I put my vote. Remember, 1 vote from town on town results in an auto-loss with 3 scum jumping on it.

[TvK]

I LIED to you all to get my top Scumread lynched.

I also have problems with this. In all of your readlists (even the one where you followed your gut), ffery was around the middle. Then you claim to have investigated her "on a hunch" and now she was your top scumread?

[TvK]

Fitz, should Ffery flip Scum, is my next Scumread. Then ICE, Reg, and TvK respectively. I don't know about Garmr. I'm Townreading SG and MME.

So Fitz was going to be your next target should ffery have flipped scum? Good thing your reads haven't changed at all (except for Reg) now that ffery flipped town.

[TvK]

Either way, garm, fitz regfan and myself aren't part of a 3 man scum team if wake is town.

Hmmm, well if Wake is town, than there's no further need in discussing a 3 man scumteam, because we will have lost by then.

But on the other hand, if even the slightest

Either way it's at the point now where lynching Wakes a win/win, if he's scum (Which I think is the case given his hard-quick push on Fitz and his AtE of "Vote him or you're scum!") it's a scumlynch and if he's town then if I have to lose to make him vanish from the site or never do this again then it's still a win.

Why don't you just call Wake scum instead of still keeping the possibility of him double fakeclaiming as town in mind? And because of you doing this, why don't you go after your confirmed scum target, me, instead of Wake, who apparently still isn't confscum in your reasoning?

[TvK]

I meant to delete that "but on the other hand" part, but forgot to do so.

[TvK]

It's Regfan and TvK for sure. And Fitz.

Explain to me how you got me up there suddenly.

[TvK]

It's Regfan and TvK for sure. And Fitz.

Explain to me how you got me up there suddenly.

He checked his role pm.

So you think I'm scum too? Is there anyone that actually thinks I'm town in here?

[TvK]

My brain still tells me Fitz is our vig and I believe him when he said he had targeted Wake, because there was no other option left for him. I can't see how scum would roleblock Fitz to prevent him from shooting Wake if he was town. I guess the only conclusion I can make is that Wake is scum.

[TvK]

It's Regfan and TvK for sure. And Fitz.

Explain to me how you got me up there suddenly.

I'm trying to get my paranoia under control.

I'm absolutely certain on Regfan, and about 98% of Fitz. Once we lynch and flip ScumReg, we'll lynch Fitz. We can win this. Scum wants a mislynch so badly right now and it's going to take an exercise of faith to overcome 3 Scum in a Lylo situation.

Why did Fitz suddenly drop from 100 to 98?

[TvK]

We really need Fitz's opinion on all of this.

[TvK]

It's got to be Regfan, and TvK's posts SCREAM subtle Scum angling for a mislynch. Why were you so quiet during Day 3?

Because I believed you day 3 and I don't think I had anything to add to a claimed guilty on someone. You've lost all my trust in you day 3 and you should be happy that I'm at least considering a scenario in which you are not scum.

[TvK]

@Everyone else who's Town.

They left me alive. I am the easy lynch. They are counting on you to mislynch me for game.

They left you alive, or you're scum yourself and one of your buddies blocked Fitz and now you're trying to guide us to another mislynch.

[TvK]

Wait, hold your horses, Garmr. We cannot lynch Wake before we've heard from Fitz and ICE. You're leaving him open for an attempt at quicklynching.

[TvK]

I'm the doctor

, there's no flavour ect. to my role whatsoever

That's a LIE. All the roles are flavored. I was the Town Shield (2-shot Doc.)

If there's any Town out there who KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that roles are flavorized, you MUST know that Regfan is lying.

How do you know all roles are flavored? How can you possibly know? The masons had no flavor. You're the only one claiming a flavored role. Do you and your scumbuddies have flavored roles?

[TvK]

I'm the doctor

, there's no flavour ect. to my role whatsoever

That's a LIE. All the roles are flavored. I was the Town Shield (2-shot Doc.)

If there's any Town out there who KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that roles are flavorized, you MUST know that Regfan is lying.

How do you know all roles are flavored? How can you possibly know? The masons had no flavor. You're the only one claiming a flavored role. Do you and your scumbuddies have flavored roles?

I'm assuming they are, because we're in a space-themed game and I was given the Town Shield flavor. I figured all other PRs and VTs are flavored.

The only flavor so far have been the really cool space pics with each votecount and at the start of the days. Every role revealed so far had no flavor. Reg's scumdar must've pinged when you claimed a flavored cop because his doc role is unflavored as well. I don't buy this at all.

[TvK]

Nope, TvK is Scum. Of that I'm now fucking certain.

MME and ICEninja are CLEARED.

I know my role PM was flavored, but I don't know why it wasn't mentioned when they flipped.

*Falcon, can/will you confirm that there are flavored roles in your game? I want to understand why you didn't make it known when people flipped, because I sure as hell know you provided MY role PM with flavor.

So I'm scum because I'm suspicious of you but I don't yet want to place my vote on you because I want to hear everyone's opinion instead of seeing you quicklynched if you happen to be town? Yes, I deliberately made that sentence longer than it should be.

[TvK]

I am scum with Regfan who is trying to get me lynched since day 2 and Fitz? Good thing Garmr is so obviously town, especially his latest post.

@Everyone
Wake is scum trying to confuse before he dies. Take everything his says with a grain of salt.

[TvK]

Do you realise you have 4 people you're convinced of that they're scum? Something's wrong in your logic.

[TvK]

Town, Scum knows I fucked up Day 3. There's damned good reason why they left me alive.

How are we supposed to believe you if this is the only reason you're giving us. And giving the same reason 14 times is not going to convince us either.