Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[Street Hassle]

@ fery

what do you think of reggie?

First game with him, and my impressions are pretty shaped by Empire's years of experience playing with him. I have found no reason so far to think he's not town.

Is there a reason why you're asking me specifically, rather than the expert on this topic?

[ICEninja]

Your eagerness to get me lynched over other unreadable lurkers, despite the fact that I've explained my situation in games, makes me want to think you're scum with at least one inactive player.

You don't even seem to understand why I'm voting for you. You think I should lynch someone who hasn't posted much of anything instead of someone who is posting scummy as hell?

Once again I don't care much for the meta defense of TSO. If he's a universally useless player who OMGUS suspects town reads (me), votes another town read (SG), and gives only a single scum read with no reasoning or followup (fitz) then we probably have equal chance of hitting scum as town ANYWAY, and get rid of him either way. If we discount that meta, then we've got obvscum here.

Kid A just increased in my scum list SIGNIFICANTLY. He beetlejuiced in what, 7 minutes, with one word and zero contribution? Holy shit. I'm dropping him in to my lynch pile now. Orestes is solidly lynchable now too. TvK, while not getting a town read, feels more "meh" than scum to me.

So just an update, my lynch preference is:
TSO > Milked/Kid A > Orestes at the moment. Not interested in lynching anyone else, though if TvK or fitz got lynched I probably wouldn't cry over it.

[Herself]

@ fery

what do you think of reggie?

First game with him, and my impressions are pretty shaped by Empire's years of experience playing with him. I have found no reason so far to think he's not town.

Is there a reason why you're asking me specifically, rather than the expert on this topic?

yeah cos I wanted to know you thought not emp. I would like to know your first impressions/assessment. this is my first game with him too and I was wondering if yours matched my own.

[Street Hassle]

@ fery

what do you think of reggie?

First game with him, and my impressions are pretty shaped by Empire's years of experience playing with him. I have found no reason so far to think he's not town.

Is there a reason why you're asking me specifically, rather than the expert on this topic?

yeah cos I wanted to know you thought not emp. I would like to know your first impressions/assessment. this is my first game with him too and I was wondering if yours matched my own.

My first impression was that he has a loose, humorous style of play, and puts a lot of attention on the attitudinal nuances that players give away in their word choices and sentence structures. And he obviously views that through the lens of their priors. I haven't meta'd him because I'm sharing my role PM with someone who has tons of experiential meta. But, I'd sort of expect that he's humorous as scum too, but maybe not quite so loose and easy going in his interactions.

His pace reminds me of other meta-emphasized players (with the notable exception of our esteemed mod) who tend to take a "let the game data come to me" approach, which frees up time for meta analysis. The advantages of having that style as a baseline when scum are pretty obvious.

[havingfitz]

When I made the statement I didn’t realize our town reads were the same

….and as I’ve said, if you put weight in to the fact at least 4 of our reads were in agreement at that point and question me for suspecting you nonetheless….why doesn’t that same skepticism apply to you who suspects me despite having similar reads?  To me that seems odd. 

You don't fucking say--my entire point is that you are not taking the entire gamestate into consideration, you are completely focused on yourself and your position in the game and its scummy as fuck.  If you were really trying to figure things out, you would have known that we agreed on four townreads and maybe I was just mistaken about you, but you took the opposite route and told me I couldn't identify town even though you are ostensibly town and we had coalesced on four people individually.

I get “focused on myself” when someone tries to push crap logic/suspicions on me.  Why is that so hard a concept to comprehend.  Did you expect me to accept a potential lynch?  Regardless of my alignment?  If you ignore bad cases on you and let baseless wagons form than more power to you.  And you continue to ignore my points…you are the one who brought up the fact that despite having similar town reads (which I did not realize att)…that somehow I should give you props for having good town reads.  What you fail to grasp though is that at that same time…you were making a push on me.  I know what my alignment is but I can only guess those of the one’s I listed (that lined up with yours).  I could have them wrong.  IDFK.  What I DO know is that you are getting it wrong with me.  And for you to think that for some reason having the same reads gives you a pass on your reads when by the same token…having the same reads as you is viewed as a negative towards me (look at Fitz sheep…look at him discredit me despite similar reads…whaaaaah…) is absurd.  I assess you independently of your other reads….especially on D1
 

Bullshit.  You were saying your vote on me wasn’t random (ergo it was serious) before I began defending myself.  You’ve only recently added the reaction is scummy stuff.
 
And while we’re on that subject…how can you say I’m reacting differently here?  You say in those games I was “very direct with my rebuttals “ and “he knows the accusation is bullshit and he’s gonna tell you why goddamnit.”  You’re saying my defending of myself in this game has not been direct?  I have not called the accusations against me bullshit?  And I’ve failed to tell you why?  TOWN….please giv this a read.  Also…lol…I just realized what I started this reply with.

No, I added the reaction is scummy stuff as soon as you reacted the first time in 187.  After I pointed out the difference in your reaction here vs your other linked town games, you started to adjust the way you approached me.
 
It's called scumhunting.  You do something scummy (your first two votes), I vote you, you react, I guage your reaction and adjust my read.  You got scummier.

1) Your initial suspicions are crap.  The ones based on the 2 posts which have been shown to be crap.
2) My reaction is the same towards you describe it from town games you looked at of mine.  And I don’t do meta so I haven’t adjusted shit based on it.  I’ve adjusted my approach towards you as I have felt inclined to address your suspicions towards me.  Suspicions change throughout games…adjustments are made.  For you to propose I’m adjusting anything to appear more town based on my own meta is just a scum imagination at work.
 

Though not voting what I would assume is your prime suspect is not that unusual…is it Herself?

Nice mudsling, asshole.

  We're a hydra and mollie really wants to scumhunt Milk.  I've gotten what I needed to get my read on you so we've moved on. 

Here’s where I have a non-game related issue with you Des.   Where have I slung mud?  And where have I got personal with you?  I might disagree with what you are doing in this game but my disagreements are not directed at you the person.   Why don’t you put away your internet shield and play like a nice boy. 

Remember proper behavior is one of the rules.

  Try not to lose your cool under a little duress. 
 
Also…are you making some sort of excuse for your play based on being a hydra?  I’m not sure what your point is but if you can’t play as one head you should join games as an individual.
 

Though not voting what I would assume is your prime suspect is not that unusual…is it Herself?

Although it's good to see that you are staying consistent in your "Don't step out of line of the town consensus other than a shitty OMGUS on obvtown" approach.

I wish you had said you were obvtown sooner.  It could have saved us a lot of trouble.
 
But seriously…you aren’t obvtown.  There…that was easy.
 
This is just a poor attempt at some sort of dig.  As stated…you aren’t obvtown; FYI I’m not voting you atm; and, my suspicions towards you (aka vote) was not for OMGUS reasons.  I provided my reasons and included a bit of OMGUS as an honest after thought. 
 

tl:dr;

des losing his composure for no reason is scummy as hell. 

[My Milked Eek]

Yeah, I'm finally here. The conference is over. About my semi-V/LA and the suspicion it raised:
- I can understand why you find that post suspicious, but it's what I PM'd the mod and he told me to notify everyone in the thread, so I did.
- The reason you also saw me online is because I cached every new page before heading off to the conference on my tablet so I could read it on the train.

That being said, I'm going to take a quick nap and collect my thoughts on the thread (I'm behind one or two pages).

[Herself]

My first impression was that he has a loose, humorous style of play, and puts a lot of attention on the attitudinal nuances that players give away in their word choices and sentence structures. And he obviously views that through the lens of their priors. I haven't meta'd him because I'm sharing my role PM with someone who has tons of experiential meta. But, I'd sort of expect that he's humorous as scum too, but maybe not quite so loose and easy going in his interactions.

His pace reminds me of other meta-emphasized players (with the notable exception of our esteemed mod) who tend to take a "let the game data come to me" approach, which frees up time for meta analysis. The advantages of having that style as a baseline when scum are pretty obvious.

mine is a little different but we seem to intersect with the "let the game data come to me" approach. his rhythm is good, he's a good dancer, he is letting me get pretty close but not letting me

in

but that might just be cos he doesn't know me. I also think he could do all these things as scum of course but I am thinking he is town.

[Herself]

@ Fitz: "Mudsling" to me is a throwaway comment meant solely to discredit someone.

I wasn't making an excuse, I was stating a fact. You were saying that TSO is scummy for not voting his #1 scumread and then likening him to us--implying we were scummy for voting Milked while "presumably" having you as our #1 scumread. <---Not scummy at all.

Get it?

PS If you think that was me losing my cool, you're just showing your unfamiliarity with me. What you perceive to be me losing my composure is actually me smelling blood.

- Des

[ICEninja]

Jeez, you two. Herself, and to a lesser extent fitz, are not realistic lynches today. Can we put away the cat claws already? You two are repeating the same stuff over and over at this point, and it's looking like town on town head smashing.

So Milked. You've been caching the pages and reading stuff, but you couldn't be bothered to even throw out a couple things here and there? Hrm.

[Street Hassle]

My first impression was that he has a loose, humorous style of play, and puts a lot of attention on the attitudinal nuances that players give away in their word choices and sentence structures. And he obviously views that through the lens of their priors. I haven't meta'd him because I'm sharing my role PM with someone who has tons of experiential meta. But, I'd sort of expect that he's humorous as scum too, but maybe not quite so loose and easy going in his interactions.

His pace reminds me of other meta-emphasized players (with the notable exception of our esteemed mod) who tend to take a "let the game data come to me" approach, which frees up time for meta analysis. The advantages of having that style as a baseline when scum are pretty obvious.

mine is a little different but we seem to intersect with the "let the game data come to me" approach. his rhythm is good, he's a good dancer, he is letting me get pretty close but not letting me

in

but that might just be cos he doesn't know me. I also think he could do all these things as scum of course but I am thinking he is town.

I have no idea how you call close vs in. It may be something that doesn't map to my style of play.

[Squirrel Girl]

will do rest later

Does the "rest" include answering some of the questions and issues with your reads? Because I would have liked that to have been the first thing you did.

[ICEninja]

^

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

LolWagons replaces T S O

[ICEninja]

I'm sorry Wagons.

I don't see any reason for anybody other than this slot to be lynched. He screwed up by giving his vote a town read then not switching it to his scum read and despite wanting to have played this game, knew he was goosed, and got out.

I'm having some hope that this game will be easymode after all instead of being manipulated by a master puppeteer, though it's a good bet he wanted to stay in this game because he had at least 1 competent scum buddy. I'll save that thought for day 2 though.

[LolWagons]

Work with me ICE. I'm on page five here and you're pretty apparently town.

Also, I think you and Regfan know me. This is slaxx, Im just chillin on this alt because I like it.

Working on my catchup post as we speak.

[LolWagons]

So while Im catching up...is there something I am missing on qudraxis or can we get him force replaced? I'm not speaking robot the entire game and he's posted once over six days.

The MME situation looks like its resolving itself. Think everyone else is active and readable.

[LolWagons]

Spoiler: 1-3

Ok guys. Open another tab if you guys want to follow along because I don't provide links to every post. Sorry.

fitz #9 feels slightly forced. The last half, anyway. Feels like conversation for the sake of conversation and activity.

ICE #13 is town. I like having him as a town read early, that should make things easy. I highly doubt that post comes from scum. Sure scum might point it out to try to gain town cred but its feels very organic. Not something I see him making up.

Idk what it is about SG's page 1 but it seems incrediby relaxed and smooth. Slight town read from the posts as a whole.

#23 ICE is already a town read but this makes it highly unlikely Kid A and ICE are partners if ICE ever did flip red. Its also a bad post.

#35 summed up pretty well what I had almost types out on Banksys.

#44-49 its interesting to note Garmr had to be forced to talk about banksys but so easily was distracted by SG.

#61 is really town.

#70 is pretty town from Kid A.

Page 3 garmr is bad.

End of Page 3

both hydras and ICE are town, and 1-2 of (bank, Garmr, TvK) is scum as well.

I stopped PBPA here because fuck doing that for 17 pages. But just so you know where I got my initial townreads from.

Ice, Herself, SG are almost surely town.
Street and Reg is likely town.
Kid A is leaning town.

All these save for Reg are based on pretty much the first seven or so pages.

Ice has been town since pretty much his first post and despite being far from in danger has continued to press for information and continue being actively engaged in the game.

SG's initial post and the ones thereafter seem very relaxed and natural. Raw isn;t the right word, but unfiltered is pretty close to what I'm trying to get across.

Herself's #61 defense of squirrel showed a keen awareness of what was going on in the game in addition to defending SG makes me think this slot is town as well.

Street and Reg litearlly get townread for the same reasons.

1) They saw what I saw on the first few pages and
2) They've been pushing the game forward ina genuine way.

I'm going to the gym, I'll probably sort through the last half of the game later tonight but this is what I have gotten from the first 8-9 pages.

[LolWagons]

IVe skimmed the whole thread, specifically for Reg's reads, to clarify, but I havent read the rest in depth yet.

[Garmr]

Spoiler: 1-3

Ok guys. Open another tab if you guys want to follow along because I don't provide links to every post. Sorry.

fitz #9 feels slightly forced. The last half, anyway. Feels like conversation for the sake of conversation and activity.

ICE #13 is town. I like having him as a town read early, that should make things easy. I highly doubt that post comes from scum. Sure scum might point it out to try to gain town cred but its feels very organic. Not something I see him making up.

Idk what it is about SG's page 1 but it seems incrediby relaxed and smooth. Slight town read from the posts as a whole.

#23 ICE is already a town read but this makes it highly unlikely Kid A and ICE are partners if ICE ever did flip red. Its also a bad post.

#35 summed up pretty well what I had almost types out on Banksys.

#44-49 its interesting to note Garmr had to be forced to talk about banksys but so easily was distracted by SG.

#61 is really town.

#70 is pretty town from Kid A.

Page 3 garmr is bad.

End of Page 3

both hydras and ICE are town, and 1-2 of (bank, Garmr, TvK) is scum as well.

I stopped PBPA here because fuck doing that for 17 pages. But just so you know where I got my initial townreads from.

Ice, Herself, SG are almost surely town.
Street and Reg is likely town.
Kid A is leaning town.

All these save for Reg are based on pretty much the first seven or so pages.

Ice has been town since pretty much his first post and despite being far from in danger has continued to press for information and continue being actively engaged in the game.

SG's initial post and the ones thereafter seem very relaxed and natural. Raw isn;t the right word, but unfiltered is pretty close to what I'm trying to get across.

Herself's #61 defense of squirrel showed a keen awareness of what was going on in the game in addition to defending SG makes me think this slot is town as well.

Street and Reg litearlly get townread for the same reasons.

1) They saw what I saw on the first few pages and
2) They've been pushing the game forward ina genuine way.

I'm going to the gym, I'll probably sort through the last half of the game later tonight but this is what I have gotten from the first 8-9 pages.

@Lolwagons

You def don't know how to read me.
1. I wasn't forced to talk about banksy I played with banksy before and had a null read on her I was more interested in her response and didn't want to interfere.
2. Why was page 3 bad???

[ICEninja]

Damn. I really like Slaxx, IIRC. And I really want to give this slot a chance since it seems like there is going to be good content coming from here.

It's just really really hard for me to get over TSO's abrupt rush out of this game once he realized he was going to be the lynch.

I won't push too hard for the lynch, as if I'm wrong this guy's content is going to probably be helpful for day 2, but lately I've had about a 75% success rate for lynching scum on day 1 when I'm

this

sure. I'll let you guys decide what to do. Quadraxis needs to get his ass in here, and it's pretty much already too late for Orestes and Milked in my eyes, my vote will almost certainly drop on to one of the two of them on my first post day 2.

It is going to take a mountainous case to move my vote today, though.

[Garmr]

Even through lolwagons reads seems a bit inaccurate. I always wanted a pet wagon of comedians.

[LolWagons]

Garmr, the sheeping fiasco wiki link thing on page 3 was bad. It wasn't particularly scummy, just bad. you know how I work.

Its not that you were forced to talk about banks as much as I feel like you were pretty actively engaged in a lot of other facets and it struck me as odd you didn't comment on that one. I'll never know until your flip if what you're saying is true, but its one of those deals where based on your patterns of addressing issues it seemed out of place not to say something about that one. If Reg were to flip scum, we might have a problem. As it stands now its not a huge issue as much as it is something to note for future reference.

I just took melatonin because insomnia but I should be able to get through most of this before I go to dream world.

[LolWagons]

So HF's iso consists of

15% posts strictly concerned about his image in the game (gonna catch up, heres additional meta, heres my access) which is not necessarily bad on its own or in certain context but it doesn't pair well with

30% 1 on 1 with Herself

15% questions that Fitz clearly didnt think out and then just completely blows off. I think therte were 2-3 addressed to street that street noticed were halfhearted. Idk if the hydra forgot about them or Fitz responded and I missed it but in hi catchup post Fitz seemed really interested in those questions then just completely ignores the responses. They weren't good questions anyway.

Then even after he addresses Herself and still thinks she/he/it is scummy as hell he sees Ice vote my slots and switches over to me, citing that no one else is going to vote her. But here's the fucking thing:

he hasnt even tried to get anyone else on the damn wagon

. He stays completely focused on her and puts no effort into actually integrating himself into any other discussion or trying to push their lynch. Even though he is SO FUCKING SURE that this slot is scum, he gives up without even testing the waters of the other players and votes his third scumread. Thats fucking lazy play.

vote HF

[LolWagons]

Still trying to focus in on TVK

I want that robot fucking gone unless it talks with people words

I see the points on MME but I think there are more sure bets than analyzing an excuse to post. That road isn't one I'm willing to go down this far into the game.
Especially when theres a giant hulk with red flags sticking out his ass running around a minefield one street down.

[LolWagons]

I'll leave you with this

As for Orestes...I'm not voting him because he's not my main suspect.

You get one guess as to who said this

good night.