Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[Garmr]

Kid A, show me where "Scum that don't have a nightkill" fulfills normal requirements? I'm a reviewer on the site and wouldn't let that pass since the definition of a mafia goon here is that it has the ability to night kill, there's no mafia role that differs from that and therefore all of the mafia roles would have to be "non-normal" which isn't possible.

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Encryptor, Mafia Strongman, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia-aligned or SK-aligned versions of above roles
New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

a vigilante traitor hybrid would be normal because its a mafia aligned version of another normal role
the only original role would be mafia that cant kill

Mafia not being able to kill is a mechanic not a role.

[TvK]

Kid A, show me where "Scum that don't have a nightkill" fulfills normal requirements? I'm a reviewer on the site and wouldn't let that pass since the definition of a mafia goon here is that it has the ability to night kill, there's no mafia role that differs from that and therefore all of the mafia roles would have to be "non-normal" which isn't possible.

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

Uhhhhhh, I remember you repeatedly stating you had a town-read on Herself so why do you want them shot now?

PEdit: Eh, that's alright Street, if you can get his reads if he pops on that'll suffice.

This had not really anything to do with my read on Herself, but I was just asking Fitz if he would shoot Herself (his biggest scumread all game) if Garmr flips scum.

[Regfan]

TvK, in Post 280 and Post 564 you had a strong town read on Herself and in Post 728 you restated your scum read on TSB so if we got a Garmr scum flip why would you want a Herself vig shot rather than a TSB one?

PEdit: Kid A, all factional mafia can "night-kill", that's the definition of "normal" mafia therefore changing it so that the factional mafia cannot night-kill would be a change of a mechanic (How the nightkill works) rather than a role change and thus non-normal.

PEditv2(Getting cut non-stop): Ah, that makes sense.

[havingfitz]

You didn't answer my question though; What's your town-read on TSB based around?

I talk about TSB in Post 566 and Post 678...which, I respond to this same question from you in as well.

To add...I've agreed with his scum reads and he's read me correctly. Plus plus IMO.

[Garmr]

^So getting all buddy with fitz gets you a town read

Noted for future mafia games

[Street Hassle]

Town

Herself
Regfan
Garmr
Iceninja

Less Town

Fitz (goes to top tier with kill confirmation)
lolwagons (solid play, small lingering questions about TSO)
Squirrel Girl
Wake
Eek

Null

Kid A (has been in scumpile forever. Crazy theory moves him up. I wonder about the meta awareness, though. In his one scum game (a newbie) he faked a towntell)

Scum

Silver Bard
TvK (This is PoE mostly, along with the garmr interactions. I want to review this with a cooler head)

[havingfitz]

I was just asking Fitz if he would shoot Herself (his biggest scumread all game) if Garmr flips scum.

I'd rather leave scum guessing. If I commit to killing a player...and I'm right...then I would expect to be the nk or possibly blocked. If I narrow it down to 2 or 3 then who knows. I.e. I don't like giving absolutes with actions.

Based on my role I'm assuming there are town and scum PRs that have the potential to screw with night actions

[havingfitz]

^So getting all buddy with fitz gets you a town read

Noted for future mafia games

It's not an opinion I am oblivious to. It works both ways as shown by my links provided to Lol.

How do you feel about like-minded people who ~sense your alignment?

[Regfan]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

[Street Hassle]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

They're pretty minor doubts re SG, really. It's about the argument with Wake, though she's been something of a nitpicker throughout the game, but in that case it seems tangential and not moving the game forward much given the amount of time and effort. Could be purely personality/style.

We've had TvK as town for a good while, too. I need to reread the garmr interactions and maybe I'll change my mind again. I feel like the fitz, Eek and garmr interactions mean something, but nothing about the evolution and interactions of those wagons looks scum driven to me. I'm not a wagon analyst, though, so ymmv. If all of that was town vs town, then I'm down to TvK scum by PoE of my town reads. And I need to find at least one more scum in the town pile as well.

[My Milked Eek]

I forgot my ICE disclaimer:

I can get to TvKscum based on my alignment (ICE disclaimer:

probably town

) and garm's (

town

fyi).

Fixed

Just back from work, but lol, where did this come from? Garm calling me probtown. Catching up after a quick shower.

[Garmr]

^So getting all buddy with fitz gets you a town read

Noted for future mafia games

It's not an opinion I am oblivious to. It works both ways as shown by my links provided to Lol.

How do you feel about like-minded people who ~sense your alignment?

Well there's this one player named Slandaar that I guess he has a similar thought process but his delivery is the opposite of mine. He gets caught up in walls and things will slip by him but his good at pushing a lynch and if he has scum they stumble and they get lynched. Me I avoid getting caught in walls things not as many things slip by and I try not hang onto one thought and get caught out by scum But I can't push a lynch like he can. So when we both roll town we seem to click and if Amethyst Kitty (ms marangal aka ice queen and malakitten) didn't glad terp we would of lynched GG I know we would of.

But short answer to your question yes I know that feeling and I know you can trick someone with the same thought process to.

[Garmr]

Me well I will try to avoid getting caught in walls so that not as many things slip by me

Just correcting my grammar.

[Herself]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

They're pretty minor doubts re SG, really. It's about the argument with Wake, though she's been something of a nitpicker throughout the game, but in that case it seems tangential and not moving the game forward much given the amount of time and effort. Could be purely personality/style.

We've had TvK as town for a good while, too. I need to reread the garmr interactions and maybe I'll change my mind again. I feel like the fitz, Eek and garmr interactions mean something, but nothing about the evolution and interactions of those wagons looks scum driven to me. I'm not a wagon analyst, though, so ymmv. If all of that was town vs town, then I'm down to TvK scum by PoE of my town reads. And I need to find at least one more scum in the town pile as well.

I would look at ice.

[Street Hassle]

Will I find the reasons why in your ISO?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 1, Votecount 24

Street Hassle [0]

Kid A [0]

TvK [0]

My Milked Eek [1]

Squirrel Girl

LolWagons [0]

Regfan [0]

ICEninja [0]

Garmr [4]

My Milked Eek, havingfitz, TvK, The Silver Bard

Squirrel Girl [0]

The Silver Bard [5]

Regfan, Herself, Garmr, Kid A, Street Hassle

Wake88 [0]

Herself [0]

havingfitz [1]

LolWagons

Not Voting [2]

- Wake88, ICEninja

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is on November 23rd at 7:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-23 07:30:00)

[ICEninja]

I'm catching up right now. We've got less than a day to go and this game is stressing the shit out of me right now.

[Street Hassle]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

They're pretty minor doubts re SG, really. It's about the argument with Wake, though she's been something of a nitpicker throughout the game, but in that case it seems tangential and not moving the game forward much given the amount of time and effort. Could be purely personality/style.

We've had TvK as town for a good while, too. I need to reread the garmr interactions and maybe I'll change my mind again. I feel like the fitz, Eek and garmr interactions mean something, but nothing about the evolution and interactions of those wagons looks scum driven to me. I'm not a wagon analyst, though, so ymmv. If all of that was town vs town, then I'm down to TvK scum by PoE of my town reads. And I need to find at least one more scum in the town pile as well.

I would look at ice.

Also, could you put an updated reads list in the thread sometime soon? I'd like to kick stuff around a little before the day ends.

Me. :/

[ICEninja]

Alright so right now it looks like this is between Garmr and Bard. I really just don't see Garmr being scum based on the way his wagon formed, though I'm not super convinced that Bard is scum either.

It just looks like I'm not getting my way regardless. I wish town just fucking listened to me and lynched Eek back on Monday or Tuesday.

I suppose in the end this is going to be a shit ton of information to process overnight, though, which could kickstart tomorrow very nicely.

This sucks though, this will be my second time putting a player I'm not convinced is scum at L-1. I'm mostly just crossing my fingers at this point.

Vote The Silver Bard

. This is L-1. Please claim, and once again please do it quick we're quite short on time.

[Herself]

Will I find the reasons why in your ISO?

probably not, it isn't something that I have pursued.

any lingering nibbles of paranoia have been removed with that list. it is very close to mine. but if I were to take another look at who is in our town that mebbe looks kind of sketchy I would say ice.

reggie is giving me nightmare flashbacks of thorella in twd. he is saying everything that I am thinking and my thoughts are pretty very very similar. but then so were thor's. I told desp the last week that I thought bard boy was scum but we were focused on fitz but then low and behold, a bard boy wagon was birthed and I like the mommies.

[Herself]

Fitz, your explanation in Post 566 was just that he "Allleviated your concerns" rather than actual reasoning and your reasoning in Post 678 was an abscence of a scum read which should lead towards you having a null read on him, not a town read so yeah, I was kind of asking you because without a good reason my votes most certainly not changing.

PEdit: Street, what's your doubts about SG (I have her up in the strong town tier of my thoughts) and ugh at you having TvK as scum too (Kind of makes me worry that I'm wrong with my town read on him and I think I've been wrong far too much already this game).

They're pretty minor doubts re SG, really. It's about the argument with Wake, though she's been something of a nitpicker throughout the game, but in that case it seems tangential and not moving the game forward much given the amount of time and effort. Could be purely personality/style.

We've had TvK as town for a good while, too. I need to reread the garmr interactions and maybe I'll change my mind again. I feel like the fitz, Eek and garmr interactions mean something, but nothing about the evolution and interactions of those wagons looks scum driven to me. I'm not a wagon analyst, though, so ymmv. If all of that was town vs town, then I'm down to TvK scum by PoE of my town reads. And I need to find at least one more scum in the town pile as well.

I would look at ice.

Also, could you put an updated reads list in the thread sometime soon? I'd like to kick stuff around a little before the day ends.

Me. :/

will do. I am at work now, if my schedule continues to look empty I will have it up this afternoon if not, then tonight.

[The Silver Bard]

VOTE: The Silver Bard

You got me, well played!
Only one thing, how did I out myself?
Unbelievable strong players in this game. I am so impressed by the level of play here…

So that’s it I think.
Uhm, or wait just one request.
Can you lynch Garmr and Herself?
Kidding, I am scum, just messing about here. Don’t care what you do as long as scum wins.
!

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 1, Votecount 25 (Final Votecount)

Street Hassle [0]
Kid A [0]
TvK [0]
My Milked Eek [1] Squirrel Girl
LolWagons [0]
Regfan [0]
ICEninja [0]
Garmr [4] My Milked Eek, havingfitz, TvK
Squirrel Girl [0]

The Silver Bard [7] Regfan, Herself, Garmr, Kid A, Street Hassle, ICEninja, The Silver Bard

Wake88 [0]
Herself [0]
havingfitz [1]LolWagons

Not Voting [2] - Wake88

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is on November 23rd at 7:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-23 07:30:00)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The Silver Bard,

Vanilla Townie

, lynched Day 1.

It is now Night 1. Please submit any Night actions you may have. Day 2 will begin in 48 hours on November 24th at 11:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-24 11:30:00)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Empire is replacing out so fferyllt (one head of Street Hassle) replaces Street Hassle.