Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[Who]

VOTE: Turkish Van
For being a hydra.

[Who]

Also I got my first choice and am very pleased with the results despite the delay.

Same.

[Who]

Trine, are you actually a hydra or just an alt?

[Who]

What other heads other than Bulbazak? And who is which head?

[Who]

This game appears to be slow to start, time to wagon the other hydra.
VOTE: Trine

[Who]

UNVOTE: Trine
VOTE: Turkish Van
Didn't realize that the wagon on TV had grown since the vote count.

[Who]

I unvoted TV because things were going slowly and I decided to get a wagon going. Then I realized that someone else had voted TV so a wagon was going. TV is currently at L-2.

[Who]

I unvoted TV because things were going slowly and I decided to get a wagon going. Then I realized that someone else had voted TV so a wagon was going. TV is currently at L-2.

Why did you feel the need to justify your vote?

People seemed to be not understanding.

I can buy that.
VOTE: Who needs to get in the game.
@Who: Why wagon the hydras?

It was RVS, the game was going slowly, wagons often move the game out of RVS, so I wagoned. Why the hydras? It was RVS, why not?


I think that GG is town from the thing with Hermy. BROseidon I see as null due to me not knowing what to make of things, Desp is null-scum, Hermy, TV, and XScorpion are all null due to lack of info though I may just have been missing their important posts rather than them not making any.

Oh, and UNVOTE: since we're out of RVS.

[Who]

You're the first one to say that, and you only say that. Interesting.

Desp is usually much better than he is here. When I say "usually" I'm going off of the game I modded recently where he was town and better, though he does have a reputation for being good but I haven't verified that and I don't know in what way. Null-scum rather than scum because A) I'm not basing this off of that much and B) reasons in that game make me think he may have been better than he usually is. Also post #91 felt wrong to me.

I don't have enough of a reason to vote anyone, and I wanted to see what happened when I didn't vote.

[Who]

You're the first one to say that, and you only say that. Interesting.

What else did you expect me to say?

You might have said something totally unrelated (Something about someone else) but you didn't. Probably completely irrelevant.

I don't have enough of a reason to vote anyone, and I wanted to see what happened when I didn't vote.

Why?

I said why my vote on Desp was still null and unworthy of a vote, nobody else was close to being worthy of a vote, thus I did not have enough of a reason to vote anyone. Why did I want to see what happened? Curiosity.

[Who]

I wanted to see the difference between Desperado's reaction to that and Desperado's reaction to this:
VOTE: Desperado

[Who]

His lack of reaction to my voteless accusation.

[Who]

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

[Who]

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

Why? What did he do?

Nothing. Hermy on the other hand, reversed what she had been saying and then voted with me as soon as she saw the wagon gaining steam. I thought "Hm, is she going to do another 180 when I unvote?" And she promptly votes BRO to bring him to L-1 while also saying that if she gets heat for it she'll unvote.

VOTE: Hermy

Has anyone besides GG played with Hermy who can back up what he says? Because Hermy to me seems too scummy to be too scummy to be scum.

Also, about BRO:
That claim was horrible. No intent to hammer, relatively early in the day, no danger of being lynched. He says Hermy may have derphammered but Hermy was already on the wagon.

[Who]

VOTE: Who

Let's dance.

~ Zoya

I feel as if I should know who you are from that comment. And I will happily dance with you as soon as you tell me what I am accused of.

[Who]

Why are you so quiet this game?

~ Zoya

For some reason I just can't get into this game, not sure why. I'm pretty sure I'll become more active (Note: This is not a promise only a prediction) soon, for some reason it feels like a large right now. Also it feels as if I haven't played mafia in ages. I'm in only one other game right now, and I died in my last completed game back in the beginning of november, when usually I am in many games at once, so that might have something to do with it.

[Who]

(Note: This is not a promise only a prediction)

Promise so that I don't have to lynch you.

Promises lead to artificial activity. Artificial activity leads to pointless things. No.

Why are you so quiet this game?

~ Zoya

For some reason I just can't get into this game, not sure why. I'm pretty sure I'll become more active (Note: This is not a promise only a prediction) soon, for some reason it feels like a large right now. Also it feels as if I haven't played mafia in ages. I'm in only one other game right now, and I died in my last completed game back in the beginning of november, when usually I am in many games at once, so that might have something to do with it.

Oh shit you are scum wow. So many excuses for a simple friendly dance request. Reminds me of one of our old games.
~Pontius

You would have preferred "Because I feel like being quiet"? (The short version of what I said)

[Who]

Why shouldn't we lynch Who? Anyone?

Because it would be better to lynch scum.

[Who]

Why shouldn't we lynch Who? Anyone?

Because it would be better to lynch scum.

I feel almost like it's the same thing.

So you feel it is the same thing to lynch a player who is currently quiet and may or may not improve as it is to find scum?

[Who]

Why shouldn't we lynch Who? Anyone?

Because it would be better to lynch scum.

I feel almost like it's the same thing.

So you feel it is the same thing to lynch a player who is currently quiet and may or may not improve as it is to find scum?

No, I feel like I would be lynching scum.

I am scum for being quiet?

[Who]

No, Hermy is.

[Who]

Hermy & ...?

Right now I think GG by association but less confident on that. Also I'm getting independent null-scum vibes from TS but he seems to be not Hermy's partner.

You have got to be kidding me.

How does that warrant a townread?
How is it critical thinking? He doesn't even have his facts straight.

Zoya head of Trine: I want your opinion on this post.

It is a familiar disconnect for me. There is a style of scum-hunting that couldn't be more alien to me if the divergence in brain evolution coincided with the appearance of Tiktaalik

~ Zoya

I feel like this was written in a language other than English because I don't know what Bro is asking nor what Zoya answered. Can I get a translator?

Bro: Zoya, what do you think of this?
Zoya: That logic makes absolutely no sense.

[Who]

@XScorpion
That's different from requiring a translation. I think that would have been a more: @Bro&Trine, what logic makes no sense?

About GG+Hermy, yes mostly. Again, more confident on Hermy than GG, I would want to see what GG did while/after the Hermy-lynch before lynching GG.

About Tier, actually he might be Hermy's partner but I just got a not-hermy's-partner-vibe I don't know who would be scum with him if he is scum. In regards to his relation to Hermy, same as GG, would want to see what he did while/after a hermy-lynch before making a connection to Hermy, whether it be town or scum.

Also, did you ever respond to GG's 243, and if you did, could you point me to that post?

@Cabd
Which head are you?

[Who]

It's interesting, Who
Your first response isn't to contextualize my reads in light of being me
instead you immediately demand to know which head I am, as if that somehow changes things

I'm currently guessing Pontius, I just wanted to be sure if I could before factoring you being in Trine in.

[Who]

Turkish Van,

What are your thoughts about Who?

~ Zoya

Given that it was pretty clear which head was going after him, I'm not sure why Who bothered to chase down the rabbithole of matching you up to a head. I don't see town motivation for the sidetrack; looked more like him seeing which heads he had to appeal to.

As I said I thought he was Pontius, and intended to continue with that assumption. I always like being sure of anything I can be sure of. Also I'm an incredibly nosy person, if I didn't know the third head of Trine I'd still want to know who they were because I'm just nosy/curious like that.

I don't think the admission of being dazed and confused was scummy. The seeming intention to remain that way, yes. Also, looking through his ISO, this:

I wanted to see the difference between Desperado's reaction to that and Desperado's reaction to this:
VOTE: Desperado

His lack of reaction to my voteless accusation.

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

sequence, if you look at the intervening posts, Desperado totally ignores him. A) it's a bad reaction test to announce it, B) the complete lack of response is enough to tell him something? Looks like scum posturing to me.

This is exactly what I meant by forced activity, I will not deny that that was totally pointless. Things with a purpose only come naturally, at that point I was so out of the game that I couldn't do anything and I just forced myself to do something to enter into the game. If I were to promise more activity, it would result in more things like that.

Well, actually the unvote was a real reaction test for Hermy. But the rest was forced.

[Who]

Well I don't have a certain scumread atm, so that's why I'm not voting. I'd like to lynch desp, but I haven't been able to point out exactly why. I'm also on the fence about Who, whose explanations baffle me. Not as in I think they're super scummy, but as in I have no idea what he's saying.

Who, what do you mean with forced activity? And how was the unvote a reaction test for hermy?

If I don't feel I have anything to say and I force myself to say something, whatever I say/do will be totally pointless, like the desp-reaction test.

Hermy leapt on the desp-wagon after I voted desp, right as it was building up. I wanted to see if Hermy would change wagons as soon as it began to lose followers, which Hermy did.

[Who]

@Who thanks for telling me that hermy thing, hadn't realized that before, omg that is scummy like how did I even not see that. XS, now I have someone to vote for, a replacement being pressured from the get-go is something I like.
VOTE: hermy

I'm no language analyst but the language of this post seems to be leaping up and down yelling "SCUM!" That said, it could also be newb-town.
Also, other than my superficial complaint with it, it doesn't seem that bad. He could be scum thinking that I'll be lynched today and that if he is not on my wagon he gets townypoints and that that sets up a wrong hermy-wagon for tomorrow. He could be newb-town who means what he says. They're both possible. If Eek flips town then Tier would probably be my next target of suspicion.

@Eek
Your predecessor did not leave you in a very good state.

[Who]

L-1 and intent to hammer, time to claim:

Roleclaim: Tim from Braid, the Time Traveller

Once, I can rewind time by a night and a day. Anyone who died then will be revived. I can rewind time immediately after dying, but only immediately after, so if I am lynched today I'll rewind to the beginning of day one and be conftown (I flip town then revive), but we'll only have me, if I rewinded after a towny was lynched and a towny died we would have 2 conftownies+Me being probtown from role. And flips do reveal alignment, this role seemed rather awesome so I checked pre-game.

Also:
VOTE: TierShift
1. His logic is actually sound despite it's scum-seemingness, and it says I should vote him.
2. That last post gut-pinged me.
3. The previous post of his which I called "superficially scummy" was, BRO's analysis of it though seems sound and makes it much more scummy.

@Zoya
It's Who's, and if you ever say it "Whose" when I will refer to your stuff as "Zoyase".

[Who]

1. 2 conftowns+1 probtown>1 conftown. Me being lynched=1 conftown. Me rewinding at the start of tomorrow when we lynch town today and town dies overnight=2 conftowns. Me not claiming=lynch, given how I was at L-1 with intent to hammer.
2. Being conftown is really boring, and in most of the games where I am conftown I end up lurking so much I get replaced.
3. In regards to scum killing me, I create two conftowns tomorrow if we lynch town today and someone dies, it doesn't matter if it's me.
Why would I not claim in this situation?

Also, where does it say roles were created before alignments? Because I agree, this does seem way too powerful to leave up to chance as to which side gets it. Usually alignments come before roles in a UPick, do they not?

Thanks TS.

Trine, what is the mafia going to do, not kill unless we lynch scum?

[Who]

Trine/Amadeus has a point about scum not killing Who if it resulted in back-to-back dead townies. Which means that getting a conf-town Who today is likely a better deal than what we'd get down the line, even if he would find it boring to play.

The role also implies no way for more than one death per night, as that could bring back three players and would totally strain . And with BRO's more believable weak visitor claim, it's less feasible.

I want to get Mala's thoughts before proceeding.

Also, TierShift being fine with being lynched after Who's claim looks bad too. Again, most likely not both scum, but scum-TS could be trying to minimize the damage of his faction killing Who if he believes the claim. Less feasible given the likely size of a scum faction in a Micro, but Who's role, if town, could imply a > 2p Mafia group as well.

--PA

If scum don't kill we could get a conftown someone else and probtown me, or I could save my role for when they do kill, also we get a conftown from BRO. Also, the wording of my role PM implies the possibility for more than one death per night.

About TS, I would say that his willingness to be lynched looks Towny but a bit too quick to trust (From his perspective I might be scum postponing my lynch by a day) and could be a traitor. The possibility of one traitor+2scum is present given my role, and the traitor, if they exist, would want to sacrfice themselves to prevent two conftowns.

[Who]

Has anyone read any of Alduskkel's previous games? Here are the roles from a marathon I replaced into (I replaced Majiffy):
Alduskkel's Arboreal UPick - Game Over!

Spoiler: Roles

1. Majiffy - Root - Mafia Traitor & Roleblocker
2. zabriel - Ironwood - BP
3. GuyInFreezer - Saigyou Ayakasi - 1-Shot PGO
4. Kid A - Bonsai - Tree Cop
5. Lucky2u - Dryad - Tree Protector
6. Severe Dirt Trip - Ash - Informed Tree
7. killerjester - Tree of Heaven - Ascetic Tree
8. Cephrir - Kalpavriksha - Wish Giver
9. Marquis - Demeter, Goddess of the Harvest - Vote Giver
10. Nero - Sad Molesting Tree - Vanilla Townie

Majiffy, you are a root. You're also a Mafia Traitor/Roleblocker! Cephrir and killerjester are in the Mafia, but they don't know that you're on their side.
You win when the Mafia have taken over the tree community.
Special Ability:
If you are ever killed (treestumped), you will gain the ability to roleblock another player each night.

Zabriel, you are Ironwood.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
You can't be killed at Night.

GuyInFreezer, you are Saigyou Ayakasi, a deadly tree.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Once in the game, at Night, you can choose to blossom and kill anyone who targets you.

Kid A, you are a Bonsai.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability: Each Night, you can target someone and learn if they are a tree or part of a tree. This isn't necessarily indicative of alignment.

Lucky2u, you are a Dryad.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Each Night, you can target someone, and if they are a fully grown tree then you will protect them.

killerjester, you are a Tree of Heaven and a member of the Arboreal Mafia with Cephrir. Talk to him here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/sseWPbHWDtSuv
You win when the Mafia have taken over the tree community.
Special Ability: You're a stinky tree, so people don't like to target you. You're immune to all non-killing actions.

Cephrir, you are Kalpavriksha. You are also a member of the Mafia with killerjester. Talk to him here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/sseWPbHWDtSuv
You win when the Mafia have taken over the tree community.
Special Ability:
Each Night, you can offer a player a 1-shot daykill in exchange for their vote. They have the option to accept or not accept. You keep the vote permanently.

Marquis, you are Demeter.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Each Night you can grant a player an extra vote the next day. They keep the vote permanently. You can't target yourself.

Severe Dirt Trip, you are an Ash Tree.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
You know that there are two explicitly not-tree entities in this game. That is, they are not a tree or even part of a tree.

Nero, you are a Sad Molesting Tree.
You win when all threats to the tree community are dead.
Special Ability:
Everyone hates you, including me. You're the only Vanilla Townie in the game. But at least you know you're the only one. That's something, right? Hahahaha, don't molest me.

He is not afraid of including strange and seemingly really-powerful roles in his games, and that game had 3 scum out of 10 people, this one easily could.

[Who]

After all, who can always rejoin us if he's telling the truth, no?

I can, but then it turns what could have been a 2-shot cop into an IC, and does not give our investigative PR(s) a chance to investigate. What is wrong with just lynching me tomorrow if I'm lying?

Also, Alduskkel said in the queue "I have modded 4 marathon UPicks before, if you want to get an idea of what sort of roles I come up with. (1) (2) (3) (4) The first one was a little half-assed, but the other three I think turned out nicely and are more representative anyway." so I think the marathons are a fair judge. Also, after having read those, it has occurred to me that the princess might be looking for me, I know I'm looking for her.

[Who]

Bah.

[Who]

*Turns magical resurrecting hourglass and grabs key*
VOTE: Tiershift
His scumminess has eclipsed Hermy's in my opinion.

[Who]

UNVOTE:
For now. Consider my vote on Tier but only unofficial because I don't want a hammer yet.

[Who]

The mod randomly selects a message from any QT that is being used this game. That means scum QT, dead QT and perhaps mason QT. He then blanks out the names in the post and PM's me the post, without saying from which QT it is. I receive a different post at the end of each night.

As for why I didn't listen: if I hadn't hammered and the wagon would have died down, I'm certain I would get lynched. There were 4 scenarios for me, with hammering yes or no and who as scum yes or no.
1. Who not scum, didn't hammer. I'd be conftown day 2 together with who.
2. Who not scum, did hammer. Current situation, alas, in which I look scummy. Who is obviously conftown here.
3. Who scum, didn't hammer. I'd unnecessarily be mislynched.
4. Who scum, did hammer. I'd be obvtown and we'd have avoided an unnecessary mislynch.

Of course situation 1>2 but also 4>3. I was pretty sure that who was scum at that moment for reasons already stated so I thought I had the choice between scenario 3 and 4 and I took matters into my own hands.

You're missing the following scenarios:
5. You scum me not scum, didn't hammer. You'd be lynched, I'd be protected tonight then if we lynched town the next day we'd have 2 conftowns, if scum didn't kill then scum wouldn't get their kill.
6. You scum me not scum, hammered. You may be lynched, but only one conftown for us and no fear of killing people for you.

6 is most definitely better for you than 5 if you're scum. First you considered me town, then you changed your mind when you realized how screwed you were if you let me live.

[Who]

I don't see the point of a flavor-claim, scum are unlikely to claim a fake flavor anyway.

[Who]

Being conftown+site going down=me not being that active.

Basically, I think that BRO's town and that he's persuasive.

[Who]

BRO: Town
Trine: Scum
TS: Scum

I need to take a closer look at XScorpion.

[Who]

Amadeus, with the massive advantage town would get from me living, scum would push it as hard as possible.

TS, Trine is scum, XScorp I still haven't taken a closer look at.

[Who]

VOTE: TierShift

I think he's the most likely to be scum.

[Who]

Does anyone know who the princess is?

Does the princess even exist?

@Princess
WHO ARE YOU?

[Who]

Does anyone know who the princess is?

Does the princess even exist?

@Princess
WHO ARE YOU?

What is this about?

The princess, if she exists, understands. Probably.

Unless I'm the monster...
But I don't see how that could be given how I'm town. If I were scum it would make perfect sense. But I'm not so it can't be. Meaning the princess should tell me who she is and/or look for me.

[Who]

Why is Who still alive?

My guesses:
A) Conftowniness=laziness
B) Fear of a doc
C) Scum doesn't know if I can do anything else and assumes I'm a VT.

Pick the combination you like best. Personally my money's on B.

[Who]

The means by which this game can possibly be balanced intrigues me.

In the previous of ald's games I've played in, iirc they mostly favored scum, whereas this one seems to favor town waaay too much.

In regards to the princess, I don't think so. Not entirely sure if she's even a princess by flavor. Well, not entirely sure if she even exists.

@Anyone who is looking for someone else and/or looking to be found by someone else
I am that person.

[Who]

Is anyone here looking for someone else?

[Who]

Is anyone here looking for someone else?

Can you give me your thoughts you MME/ETL and how there's three people claiming to be a different 'variant' of an informative role?

MME not having brought up having tracked ETL to XScorp seems scummy. I could see all the informative roles existing though, particularly given how ETL is only a flavor cop and doesn't do much.

I think that MME should PM the mod and attempt to clarify mailman vs friendly neighbor.

[Who]

ETL, what is a paraphrase of the flavor explanation for your role?

[Who]

Can we get a prod on Who please

My last post was less than 48 hours ago.

I'm leaning Trine in this.

[Who]

Can we get a prod on Who please

My last post was less than 48 hours ago.

I'm leaning Trine in this.

(Leaning towards voting Trine, not leaning towards siding with Trine)

[Who]

Trine is scum JOAT?

Yes. I think.

[Who]

I guess it would explain the commute very well.
How do you explain MME's night results then

Scum has some powerful "Force towny to kill towny" PR, or MME is scum. The former would make up for the seeming overpoweredness of the town.

[Who]

I'm here. Time to go read stuff.

[Who]

VOTE: Turkish Van

[Who]

Pretty sure there was no princess.

Was that a lynch or do I need to vote ETL?

[Who]

So what were Trine's heads?

My guess would be: Bulbazak: Amadeus, Cabd: Pontius, Natirasha: Zoya.

[Who]

...

It's Bulba-Amedeus
Cabd-Pontius
Fferyllt-Zoya



...We claimed our heads yesterday who; did you even read the game?

Skimmedish. Didn't see the headthing. I get

really

lazy when I'm conftown.

[Who]

Desperado is the princess because the princess is a metaphor for the atomic bomb, lol. More of a mod joke than anything else.

That makes perfect sense, and I had completely forgotten about it. I was too busy thinking about all the parts before and during the end to remember after the end.

Eavesdropper - Between this and the Time Traveler, this is probably one of my favorite roles in the game, possibly because they are the least standard. Its power is subtle: Scum either risk revealing something to the Eavesdropper, or hamper their own communication in an attempt to obfuscate.

They could always play the probability game and make 9 posts in every 10 consist of nothing but the word "CAKE!". Or make a codeword and then only pay attention to posts with that word in it and make a bunch of false posts where they WIFOMed.

[Who]

I'm flattered that ffery does a good me impression I guess.

I've never played with Ffery (Well, I think I've played with ffery in hydras but I do not know ffery's playstyle at all and would never guess ffery for a questionable identity) so I had no chance of getting it right, out of all the people I could have guessed, for some reason Zoya reminded me a lot of you from 191.

[Who]

That was after it was public knowledge I think.

I'm still a little surprised I wasn't on the table as a possibility, but I guess there is a default assumption that an unknown MS player is male unless otherwise specified. I was actually role-playing a tiny bit on day 1 and early day 2 - I had a rough sketch for my head's personality and writing style, and in my mind Zoya was definitely female, as the character in the game is. That might be why the Nati comparison happened. He sometimes gets into a stylistic writing.

There's the default assumption that an unknown MS player is someone I have experience with, the only game I've played with you you were in a hydra with cabd and I didn't try too hard to differentiate the heads. Also that game was sorta strange in that my primary goal was to get everyone to believe in fairies and your primary goal was to keep doing scummy things without getting lynched. But if I had never played with Zoya I had no hope. I did think about the conflict between Zoya being a female character and Nati being male, but out of the female players I've played with you didn't match any of them.