Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 2, Votecount 4

fferyllt [0]

Kid A [3]

ICEninja, My Milked Eek, Garmr

TvK [1]

Regfan

My Milked Eek [0]

penguin_alien [0]

Regfan [0]

ICEninja [1]

Wake88

Garmr [0]

Squirrel Girl [0]

Wake88 [1]

Squirrel Girl

havingfitz [1]

Kid A

Not Voting [4]

- fferyllt, TvK, penguin_alien, havingfitz

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is on December 8th at 11:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-12-08 11:30:00)

---

V/LA:
HavingFitz - not specified (assuming for Thanksgiving based on 1024)
My Milked Ekk - till November 30th

[Squirrel Girl]

So I was correct in that you don't actually have reads? I shake my head at you for getting frustrated at me for pointing it out then. Okay, standing by for more walls.

Please stop twisting what I have and haven't done.

As I've said and shown before, I've had more than a few reads scattered throughout my stream-of-thought posts.

The only reason I'm now writing up focused reads is because it's less of a challenge than collecting all of them and pointing them out to you. Not only that, but I showed in (996) (one of many posts) that your claim that I had said nothing was absolutely false.

Just wanting to hear your reads over here, if I say 'I totally agree with you' will that help expedite the process? If so, I totally agree with you. If not, then i don't. All I'd like to see is a listing of your reads at this point, because that will totally end about 50% of my issues with your slot. I can tell jokes, blow you a kiss, hand you a nut, whatever.

Please post your reads in whatever manner will make that happen the quickest whether it be finding old quote, posting walls, or simply listing off names with an opinion on alignment appended after each.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'll even accept interpretive dance as long as you provide an explanation of what the dance means.

[TvK]

Remember that TvK said that

nothing

ICEninja posted could even

maybe

convince him of Herself's guilt. That was during Day 1, and

no one

besides the Mason knew there were Masons in the game. Only after the fact when Night 1 resolved did we learn of her role. ...so, why was TvK so eager to protect her Day 1? It couldn't be because he's Scum, because Scum didn't know there were Masons, either. He does question and comment on MME, Fitz, Kid A and Orestes. That comes off as being Townish, I guess. What does bother me a bit though is when he mentioned that he's had zero Scum games. I've heard that line from people who were Scum in that game they were in before.

I'm not the only person that had Herself as one of their top town reads during day 1. And once again, people were asking for my scum-meta, so I was just pointing out that I had no completed scum games.

One problem I'm dealing with it that he wanted Orestes (Bard) dead, and Bard flipped Town. Yet he defended Herself and distracted people from her lynch, and she was a Mason, and no one knew there were Masons Day 1 yet he continued to defend her. He said Bard's attack against Herself felt fabricated. His annoyance with the inactives comes off as Townish, too. Again he defends Herself against Bard in (510). It could be that Bard, TvK, and Herself was an all-Town slapfest. In (280) he has Herself pegged as Town, that he really liked their way of hunting, especially their (155).

I don't know where you're getting it that Herself was going to be lynched. All game long, Herself has had only 2 people voting them, Fitz (twice) and Bard, both even at seperate moments. At that moment I had a lot more troubles with the fact that Bard's case felt forced and not that that case happened to be on Herself.

The real kicker is this quote right here: "The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment)" (576)." Again he's defending Herself and telling off Fitz, trying to get him to look elsewhere. I think TvK is a Mason who tried his best to defend the other Mason Day 1, but somehow Mafia got a whiff of Herself's scent and killed her Night 1, and, I'm guessing, they already plan (or have already planned) to try and kill TvK Night 2.

It all fits perfectly in your theory, but I was just pointing out to Fitz why I thought he was scummy. What does intrigue me is that you think that Herself was the scum kill. Does that mean that you think that Fitz is lying? Or that Fitz and the scum both shot Herself. Wouldn't that be quite stupid because it was incredibly obvious that Fitz was going to shoot Herself?

I think TvK is a Town Mason, and that Scum have already figured it out before me, and that he is indeed their target tonight. All they need to do is look at who mysteriously kept defending the hidden Mason Day 1 to draw conclusions. I know I chastised Garmr about talking on Town Masons, but this is important and I had the scary realization that if I've figured it out with such little data, Scum with all their advantageous knowledge discerned it far faster than I have. If we have a Doc/protective role in this game, I strongly urge that TvK is defended tonight. TvK, if you're indeed a Town Mason, it doesn't really matter anymore to stay quiet about it. If you're Mason then you should claim right now and lead the town, and if you're lying I suspect we'll find out soon enough should another dead Townie flip Mason.

I'll just say it now: I am NOT a Mason. It feels weird to me that I almost automatically seem to be either a mason or scum, no way inbetween. I don't quite know what more to say at this moment...

So, reviewing all of this, I cannot in good faith support his wagon at this moment. I will not push for his lynch, but defend him from it. If there was a range from 1-10, I'd give him a 9/10. That's how strong I feel about his read at the moment.

Well, you now know that you're strong feeling about my read is wrong. What does that make me in your eyes? Does this change your reads on anyone else? Do you plan on going to look for a mason again?

[Squirrel Girl]

I'd be just as happy right now if everyone did two things.

1. Stop making Mason partner cases...which is, y'know, sort of what smart SCUM should be doing right now.
2. Stop discussing whether or not you, yourself, are or are not a Mason.

Please and thank you!

[Kid A]

fitz is scum with ice

im trying to figure out if theres a scum #3 or not

[Garmr]

@KidA
can you tell me more about this connection between fitz and ice???

[fferyllt]

Spoiler: Quote Wall about TvK

I feel Squirrel Girl's vibe, but I can't say it feels as towny as others find it.

Ok what exactly do you mean here by "feel Squirrel Girl's vibe?"

Her first posts had a weird combination of low content and nuts. And I never found that a very townish combination. But I like it that she's cutting down on the nuts.

In a weird way, I liked Garmr's posts even though he had to admit he was wrong.

I like Street Hassle for asking me questions. I always come up with better things when answering people's questions.

Nice work being noncommittal TvK. I mean it's fine for some reads but if it's all you're contributing.

I can dig this pokemon wagon. VOTE: Banksys Flareon

Can you explain why you dig Banksy's wagon?

I thought this comment about SG not having content at that point was wrong. In retrospect, I think the banksys wagon took off pretty strongly for such an early wagon on a slot that quickly went dormant. TvK appeared to be creating/hyping a counterwagon.

Even though I don't really like ICE's vote because of a statement pulled out of its context, I'll keep my vote on Orestes. He voted without explaining why, so I assume he was like "oh ICE's weird reasoning is good enough ti jump on the wagon".

Here he is digging at the foundations of the banksys wagon, discrediting ICE's vote, and voting another person on that wagon.

Also, I only trust people with insta-scum-detecting glasses.

I interpreted this as "I trust paranoid players". I have a tendency to see paranoid looking play as town play, so this comment resonated.

I still don't like Orestes, but I'll give him some time to "go into some more next post", cause I'd really want to hear his reasoning about Banksy.

Also, Herself is really confusing with one head posting content that is actually readable and the other, I feel, kind of the opposite. One head to come across as town and the other to hunt scum?

The second paragraph seemed apropos of nothing.

Ok, let's go through what I missed.

I very much liked the conversation between SG and Street on page 5-6, however, I didn't approve of SG's conclusion, Street's reasoning seems legit to me.

@ Street: I want to work with Kid A, Garmr, SG, and Ice today. Do any of them miss the cut for you two?

Hmm, Kid A? Don't see how he should be in this group. Unless you played with him before...

I still like Garmr's way of posting, same with the Des head of Herself. Very good content in his posts.

I can't really read ICE at this moment. Especially his last couple of posts where he really focuses on Herself. But still, none of his points could maybe convince me to thinking Herself is scummy.

The ICE read seemed off at this point. I thought ICE was making internally consistent sense.

Good thing Fitz is with us now. However, I don't like his post. More like a bunch of questions that had already been answered. And I got basically the same feeling about Kid A.

About Milked Eek. Hmm, I also got a strange vibe from that post. Dunno what to think of it yet...

This mirrored my own thoughts/reads at the time.

The reads list in 280 - this felt like a middle of the road reads list. I found the town-read on my slot iffy, and I questioned whether Herself had such a strong town read on us, given they were willing to revisit us on day 2.

Would be interested in joining the Milk wagon. Still, Orestes looks worse to me.

Such focus on the dormant orestes/TSB slot.

anyway going to chuck a read down on a person I haven't already Tvk Null-scum

Regfan: Yup, you are exactly right, I haven't done anything townish yet in this game, thanks for pointing that out.

I hope this looks a bit better to you.

I also only have a few completed games in here, including 0 scum games.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time reading people in here. Too many people come across as town, but still I'm waiting for all of them to say something that I can find scummy. That's probably why my vote is still on Orestes and also why I don't like Kid A.

To get town credit, they should come in here and post stuff.

I don't see how 1/2 decent posts followed by 6 pages of silence belongs in the town read pile.

Same with TSO, he has given literally zero content. And with fitz as well, as I said before, his wall looks impressive, but it says nothing.

I bolded the important bits. These post seem all his thinking about is earning town cred. He's even suggesting kid and orestes should come here to earn some town cred which further implies that earning town cred is on his mind.

Also the way he votes and the way he speaks makes me feel like his just aiming to please. This last bits more of a gut feeling

Nah, I care about hunting down scum.

To start, the "I hope this looks better to you" was nothing more than an honest question to Reg asking if his read on me would change. Sure, if you want to call me out on desperately trying to get towncred, than I guess you got me there.

Then, the "I only have a few games completed"... What the heck are you trying to prove here? People were asking about my meta and wanted to know how I played as scum, so I pointed out that I have no completed scum games.

"To get towncred, they should come and post". Once again, not sure what I'm doing wrong. I just really want the inactives to start posting. And I have said multiple times before that the inactives don't look good to me.

This reaction to Garmr's FoS seems...I dunno...overdone? Could be a playstyle thing.

TvK, you said that "Too many people were coming across as town" in Post 261, I only count 3, maybe 4(?) town reads in Post 280 with you having 6 "scummy" reads and 2 "null" reads (That's assuming Kid A is null not scum), so how are you "Reading too many people as town"?

This game seems to have so many town people because the people that make up for 90% of the posts are all solid townreads (excluding SG of whom I am still not sure what to think. Most of my scum reads have so few posts, that I actually thought there were less of them.

I feel like Orestes is not planning on coming back to this game, so I'm going through the thread again to see if I can find a better place for my vote.

Inconsistency sort of explained, but not really.

564 reads list still has a middle of the road vibe. He's softened his stance on SG.

@TvK wrtPost 564...what would your read on me be if you weren't factoring in my not having posted in a while (Please note my sig block ). 

The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment). In 2 posts you have given your reads, that mostly include null reads with a dash of leaning town. Your latest readlist looks a bit better (in terms of more balanced out), even though I don't like it that you find Wake and Eek town, when they only posted a little bit of content on the last couple of pages.

I liked this interaction, and in fact like the fact that he does interact both with players he suspects and with players who suspect him.

These two posts

Caught up again. I still don't like Garmr, but I also don't think we can avoid an Eek lynch. Will post more detailed stuff later.

I agree with every bolded statement in Eek's #679. Especially the one about the meta. When Garmr mentioned his scumgame (can't remember the exact #), I read the game and I must say, his playstyle has a lot in common with what he's doing here. I'm also not impressed at all by his response to Eek big post, especially because he seems so confident that he really "debunked" it. Guess it's time to hop on the wagon, took me long enough to find a good place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garmr

So, the two above posts were back to back in TvK's ISO. What happened between those two posts was a near-flashwagon on Garmr. I strongly disagreed about the Garmr wagon at that point.

Overall, I came out of day 1 feeling null-town on TvK. This readthrough maybe pushes me more toward null if anything. His stances for the most part are so middle of the road that the only thing that really stood out as original thinking was the garmr suspicion prior to that wagon taking off, but others, notably Fitz were pushing Garmr prior to his raising suspicion.

A couple of posts of particular note:

Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?

Quick check shows bard would have had a hard time justifying a vote on fitz, and fitz wasn't going to self-vote. TvK passing up Fitz for Garmr makes the least sense though. Based on his ISO fitz was consistently scummier than garmr until #580 and then he kind of awkwardly transposes them, then votes Garmr.

Unvote
Vote: TvK

I'd like him to explain his actions re: Eek/Garmr/Fitz wagons

- Des

I used to have scumreads on each of the three wagons going on now. I dropped my scumread on Eek when he started posting (around #633), because his content struck me as very townish, and my main reason for suspecting him was his lurking/inactivity.

Kid A, show me where "Scum that don't have a nightkill" fulfills normal requirements? I'm a reviewer on the site and wouldn't let that pass since the definition of a mafia goon here is that it has the ability to night kill, there's no mafia role that differs from that and therefore all of the mafia roles would have to be "non-normal" which isn't possible.


Garmr is a different story. I was too busy focusing on the lurkers at the start of the game (note my constant suspicion of Orestes and the fact that I never liked Eek or TSO), that I felt fine with having a nullread on Garmr even though he never really contributed, but at least he did post something. I still didn't think about him as Garmr when I got thrown off by Bard's posts that seemed really scummy to me. But then Garmr asked me some questions in #565, to which I responded in #571. I don't know if you can really notice it in the post itself, but I went in with Garmr as null and when I finished writing it, I had convinced myself that Garmr's play had been fishy all game long.

Now Fitz comes into the equasion. My scumread on Fitz was a combination of one of my strongest townreads (you) constantly attacking him without him being able to, in my opinion, say something townish. But from the moment that I thought Garmr was looking scummier, Fitz suddenly looked a bit better in the light I was looking at the game now. Both Eek's and Fitz's posts seemed more than enough to me to join the Garmr wagon.

^^ I THINK THIS POST AND THE POST IT QUOTES BLOW'S WAKE'S TVK MASON THEORY COMPLETELY OUT OF THE WATER.

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

I would definitely agree with this. However is you flip scum, would you shoot Herself, Fitz?

Uhhhhhh, I remember you repeatedly stating you had a town-read on Herself so why do you want them shot now?

PEdit: Eh, that's alright Street, if you can get his reads if he pops on that'll suffice.[/quote]

This had not really anything to do with my read on Herself, but I was just asking Fitz if he would shoot Herself (his biggest scumread all game) if Garmr flips scum.[/quote]


And this comes off surprisingly neutral given your all-day strong town read on Herself.

[Kid A]

@KidA
can you tell me more about this connection between fitz and ice???

i will post a full thingy when im ready to but i need to look for a scum 3 before i write a case rly

[Garmr]

Is scum 3 really important to your case and what would you lose by not telling us the connection you see between these two???

[Squirrel Girl]

^^ I THINK THIS POST AND THE POST IT QUOTES BLOW'S WAKE'S TVK MASON THEORY COMPLETELY OUT OF THE WATER.

I have come up with a new brilliant strategy everyone! Let's all slowly work through everyone and rule out who *can't* be a Mason. This will be super helpful to me

scum

TOWN

wincon! C'mon, who is with me on this!?!

[Garmr]

I wish i never started this guessing business

[fferyllt]

^^ I THINK THIS POST AND THE POST IT QUOTES BLOW'S WAKE'S TVK MASON THEORY COMPLETELY OUT OF THE WATER.

I have come up with a new brilliant strategy everyone! Let's all slowly work through everyone and rule out who *can't* be a Mason. This will be super helpful to me

scum

TOWN

wincon! C'mon, who is with me on this!?!

The real concern to me is taking TvK off the table as a lynch option. I'm not willing to do that.

[Kid A]

Is scum 3 really important to your case and what would you lose by not telling us the connection you see between these two???

its all important and im not posting shit until i have the full picture

[Kid A]

also seriously the next person to post a mason read is getting policy voted

[Squirrel Girl]

The real concern to me is taking TvK off the table as a lynch option. I'm not willing to do that.

If you can tell me the players that were taking Garmr's case seriously enough to hamper the TvK wagon I will withdraw my issue. Until then how about we stop talking about it and see how that goes?

also seriously the next person to post a mason read is getting policy voted

I'm about to policy lynch everyone in this place if people can't stop dithering on about nothing and instead just present some opinions I can sink my teeth into. I have to admit a lynch of you is starting to look mighty tasty to me.

[ICEninja]

I just want a lynch on Kid A, and right about now before people keep giving scum more and more info about who to night kill.

Everyone has ample information about Kid A, and ample reason to vote him. He'll be the first scum we lynch, then we can easily find more based on interactions.

Come on, guys. 3 votes.

[Kid A]

fuck it if youre scum 3 you are doing a good job at distancing well done

also i hope you all appreciate how hard it was to do this on a touch screen i couldnt even ctrl f

Iceninja is scum: the unabridged story

part 1 trying to play while your partner is awol

ok so youve rolled scum in a mini normal and the mods told you that you and your partner/s have daytalk. the first thing you want to do is check to see if town knows about it and they do so you take the opportunity to get some free town creds and post about it. you're a pretty smart guy and you figure that nobody is going to look for coaching when mafia has a daytalk so you decide that the best way to distance from fitz is by coaching him 1, 2. youre starting to feel like your partner is letting you down by being a lurker (especially since you are probably coaching the shit out of him in the quicktopic) and you end up simultaneously defending him and setting yourself up to bus him. You also mention that he needs to start contributing a few times because youre frustrated. You're trying to make your read on him seem natural so you constantly move him from leaning town to null to leaning scum because it makes you look like youre thoughtful and leaves you open to bus 1, 2, 3. the fitz read slowly drifts from the nullzone to a larger scum read as his lynch seems inevitable. somewhere around this point you come up with the idea for the vig claim in the daytalk. eventually you post a carefully rehearsed fitz vote. This is kinda clever because it sounds a lot like what scum would say when they bw a town so if fitz had been lynched and flipped scum youd look town as fuck

part 2 - the claim

after placing your carefully rehearsed vote you wait for fitz's carefully rehearsed claim and unvote quickly. While doing so you express a bit of support for the claim, after all you put a lot of fucking work in to it [[[btw doing all this shit to save fitz means that 2 scum is more probable]]]. You post a fucking massive wall that basically says fitz is obvscum but you hold back on voting him just in case a fitz wagon doesnt form and luckily it does not. Also the whole "this better not be the case" thing is some cool distancing because its just a random half theory thrown in there and is more about making it look like ice and fitz arent daytalking than presenting an actual possibility.

part 3 - some other shit

ok language - ice always calls fitz 'fitz' but refers to other ppl by their full name, means he sees fitz differently to the rest of us somehow because the shortened name is more colloquial (sorry for going english student on everyone)

also he keeps butting horns with wake because he wants to be town leader and he did the same with herself becuse of that reason but also because herself frustrated him by voting fitz for the 'wrong' reasons

VOTE: iceninja i was voting scum already tho

also if after writing out alla this shit im wrong i might off myself

[Kid A]

I just want a lynch on Kid A, and right about now before people keep giving scum more and more info about who to night kill.

Everyone has ample information about Kid A, and ample reason to vote him. He'll be the first scum we lynch, then we can easily find more based on interactions.

Come on, guys. 3 votes.

lol what a post

[fferyllt]

part 3 - some other shit

ok language - ice always calls fitz 'fitz' but refers to other ppl by their full name, means he sees fitz differently to the rest of us somehow because the shortened name is more colloquial (sorry for going english student on everyone)

I'll look at the rest of your case carefully, but the above is quite simply wrong. I know he's referred to me as "ffery". And he's referred to Squirrel Girl as SG and maybe as other nicknames as well.

[TvK]

My first thoughts on Kid A's case: bad, leaning towards horrible.

[ICEninja]

Right so I'm scum for pointing out that scum have day talk. Explain to me again why town wouldn't do this? I seem to recall I got voted last game (as town) for pointing out shit in the rules.

Also note my entire reads list gradually drifts towards scummy on every single one of the inactive slots during day 1. You could pretty much make that same case against half of them.

In that "massive fucking wall" where I say fitz is "obvscum", I pretty much end up with this conclusion:

For the record I more or less believe the claim (once again, it's too confirmable, scum knows for a fact fitz is dead if they fake claim a vig),

So that whole statement is an outright lie.

I've almost always called Street Hassle Street, I've called SG like 230754 different things, I've said TSB and Bard, I've said Quad, Wake, Milked, Eek, MME, Lol, Wagons, ffery, Reg, Banksys, and probably other things. Your last point against me is a joke.

Furthermore, fitz was present in my last game. Even if he was the only person whose name I abbreviated, I would have reason to be more comfortable with him than others

anyway

.

Also, what if fitz dies and flips town? What is your case on me then? 100% of your case hinges around fitz being scum, and you're voting me. I'm pretty sure the reason behind this is so you can still vote for fitz after I flip scum, because none of your case on him hinges on me being scum. Any town player would get the flip they need to "confirm" me as scum before bothering to vote me.

Soooo...where are those 3 votes?

[penguin_alien]

If people vote a lynch through before I can catch up I'll...be annoyed. I'd threaten something worse but it would be a lie.

I'll be on this game later in the night.

[Squirrel Girl]

If people vote a lynch through before I can catch up I'll...be annoyed. I'd threaten something worse but it would be a lie.

When will you be caught up?

[penguin_alien]

I'll be on this game later in the night.