Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[XScorpion]

First choice get. VOTE: grimgroove

[XScorpion]

Why no vote?

[XScorpion]

Oh you already voted nvm.

[XScorpion]

Why no vote?

Would it be a problem if he hadn't voted?

No. Curious though.

[XScorpion]

A what

[XScorpion]

You should be paranoid of everyone. Welcome to mafia.

[XScorpion]

I guess that's another mentality. Actually I like that better.

[XScorpion]

Probably a bad idea to put TV to L-1 given that desperado is in this game

[XScorpion]

So I'll leave my vote

[XScorpion]

A what

Reach.

Trying to make something out of nothing.

I would accompany it with a vote if I was.
As it is, my vote is cool right now. This thread needs more GG.

[XScorpion]

http://www.forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopi ... 84&t=28498
And yes.

[XScorpion]

It's not L-1 wtf are you talking about
LEARN TO COUNT

[XScorpion]

Turkish Van (3) - Who, BROseidon, Trine

[XScorpion]

Please tell me all 4 people who are voting TV. Tell me.

[XScorpion]

No shit.

[XScorpion]

Hence

So I'll leave my vote

How did I know someone was going to misconstrue what I said? Clearly I am a genius.

[XScorpion]

Hence

So I'll leave my vote

How did I know someone was going to misconstrue what I said? Clearly I am a genius.

My vote is also in a good place since my misunderstanding has just been misconstrued as a misconstruction.

Explain the difference to me.

[XScorpion]

I never said you were misconstructing.

misconstrue
mɪskənˈstruː/Submit
verb
1.
interpret (a person's words or actions) wrongly.

You interpreted me wrongly. That's it. What else do you think is going on here?

[XScorpion]

Seeing you considered my faulty interpretation as vote-worthy,

my definition of misconstruction seems more likely to be what you meant.

Wtf bullshit misrep is this? I voted you before this happened or have you forgotten?

[XScorpion]

Oh shit.
We both did math wrong.
BROseidon is voting me, so the only votes on TV are Who and Trine.
I'm sorry

[XScorpion]

Turkish Van (2) - Trine, Who
Grimgroove (2) - Hermy, XScorpion
Trine (2) - Desperado, Turkish Van
XScorpion (2) - BROseidon, Grimgroove

Not Voting (1) - Sanhora

Which means Who was wrong about the wagon growing (Trine joined but BRO left).
Are we all just awful at counting?

[XScorpion]

I'm okay with the 48/24 and not ignoring weekends but that's just my vote.

[XScorpion]

Well it certainly convinced me that I need to triple check vote counts because math is apparently an issue. Why the trine vote?

[XScorpion]

I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).

[XScorpion]

I don't think she'll be that difficult to sort.

Hermy should be fairly easy to sort.

Can you elaborate on this? I find lynch-bait players the hardest to sort (bad memories of drmyshottyizsik).

Tone and timing, along with some meta comparisons.

What exactly about tone and timing gives you reads? And how am I supposed to make meta-comparisons without having played with Hermy?

[XScorpion]

I don't know, exactly, but I've been developing tone-and-timing-informed reads since I started playing mafia. But, they usually point up something more objective in the involved posts, and I can almost always explain my read in a decipherable form once it's jelled.

For most players this makes sense but for lynch-bait players this may be difficult at best. Some players just always seem scummy to me, but I've been told I am overly accusative.

Cold meta is a thing. I've meta'd her for other games and I'll be doing some reviews to refresh my memory.

It's a thing, but how useful is it really? I find that unless I've actually interacted with players in a game (past or present) I don't have any way to get a good read.

I concede that my ability to read this type of player is flimsy at best, so I won't push a wagon on Hermy now (also because I don't want her voting herself out right away) but if I am confident she is scum I'm not going to let her reputation prevent me from voting her.

I am very curious as to how she sees me vs. GG as town on town when I didn't get any read from GG (except for a read of our mutual math and communication skills). Trine as well (GG already explained it as gut). Can the both of you explain the townreads? Is it just gut or do you have more reasoning??

@Des:

- Baselessly calls a slapfight TvT

Trine is doing this too. Do you think they and Hermy are both scummy for this?

p-edit: TV's is a good post.

[XScorpion]

Not really. Trine thinks you two get townpoints for getting us out of RVS--Hermy chimed in at the end of an argument and just called you both town ("at the moment").

Does the timing of these not matter? Hermy said it first and included the phrase 'at the moment', while Trine agreed and worded it in a less suspicious way. Ultimately they both have the same opinion, right?
Or is it specifically the wording that pings?

[XScorpion]

OK that makes sense.
Awaiting Hermy's response.

[XScorpion]

I think desperado knows what it literally means. He is asking what it implies (why did you have to add it to your opinion?).

[XScorpion]

Sure, but you could have just said 'I think it's town vs. town' and it would mean the same thing. Adding 'at the moment' makes it sounds like you are planning ahead to change your reads later on.

[XScorpion]

Are you suggesting that votes for Hermy are not productive because they won't produce reactions?

[XScorpion]

Just because you say his name three times doesn't mean he'll show up.

Again with the

I have the feeling Hermy should be pretty easy to read

Am I honestly the only person who doesn't agree?

[XScorpion]

Then the question is raised of at what point do we stop 'trying it their way'?

[XScorpion]

BRO, is it fair to say you are not on board with the 'wait-and-see' approach for hermy?
How would you rank Des/Hermy/GG in terms of scumminess right now?

[XScorpion]

I can buy that.
VOTE: Who needs to get in the game.
@Who: Why wagon the hydras?

Vote Count 1.05

Turkish Van (1) - Who
Who (1) - XScorpion
Hermy (1) - Turkish Van
Desperado (1) - BROseidon
Trine (1) - Grimgroove
Sanhora (1) - Desperado
BROseidon (1) - Trine

Not Voting (2) - Sanhora, Hermy

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 14th, 12 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-14 12:00:00)

[XScorpion]

By 'that' I mean the explanation for a town-read on Grim.
Although I do concur that BRO's comment-to-question ratio in that post is 5 to 1, and the question is not directed towards who he is voting.

[XScorpion]

I don't think my vote is stupid. I don't have any read on Who, so why shouldn't I vote him?
p-edit:nath'd

[XScorpion]

No.

[XScorpion]

Is he?

BRO, is it fair to say you are not on board with the 'wait-and-see' approach for hermy?

[XScorpion]

How would you rank Des/Hermy/GG in terms of scumminess right now?

Desp>GG>Hermy

Why is GG scummy? And if GG is scummy is there some reason why we are not? If your read of GG is dependent on his stance re Hermy, then I feel that we should also be somewhere in your list.

~ Zoya

To be fair here, I only asked BRO to compare these three because 122 seemed to suggest he thought all three were scummy.

[XScorpion]

Explain the desp read. Why aren't you voting anyone?

[XScorpion]

You're the first one to say that, and you only say that. Interesting.

What else did you expect me to say?

I don't have enough of a reason to vote anyone, and I wanted to see what happened when I didn't vote.

Why?

[XScorpion]

Why did I want to see what happened? Curiosity.

You have a very strange method of scumhunting, if that is what this is.

[XScorpion]

Who are your townreads, BRO?

[XScorpion]

Who, do you only vote when you are confident someone is scum? What makes one "worthy" of a vote? Why not vote Des if you are suspicious, even if you aren't sure?

[XScorpion]

I wanted to see the difference between Desperado's

reaction

to

that

and Desperado's reaction to this:

To what? What reaction?

[XScorpion]

^ You missed putting BRO to L-1 and not even mentioning it. I did the math right this time. What are you trying to pull here?
VOTE: Tiershift

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

Why? What did he do?

[XScorpion]

mhm okay sure.
Do you have anything to say about anyone OTHER than BROseidon?

[XScorpion]

I think it would be most useful if you gave your read on Des, given that so many people think he is scummy yet you voted for the other wagon.

[XScorpion]

^ This is a very sudden switch from "des is scum for twisting BRO's words" to "BRO is obvscum". Is Des suddenly a townread now?

[XScorpion]

I think you just won the award for most wishy-washy character in this game.

Woah woah bad entrance...can't believe I missed that vote right before me...*facepalm*

UNVOTE:

I don't feel like it's time for L-1 yet.

Big FoS: BROseidon (mind you, I'm not at all stating intent to hammer)

I agree with gg that this claim is no reason to move our votes.

I don't believe you're looking for scum, I think you're just making sure the wagon you're on is supported and you don't look suspicious. Very scummy that you are putting him to L-1 after I asked for a Desp read and you said you'd do it 'tomorrow or later tonight', because if someone hammers then you get off scott free. I don't think so. You're going to have to work a lot harder than that to convince me you're town.

[XScorpion]

I agree with gg that this claim is no reason to move our votes.
It was a horrible claim, let me explain.

1. He wasn't forced to claim, there wasn't even an intent to hammer.
2. Weak visitor is much weaker (pun not intended) when claimed, if he actually had that role he would have been holding back with claiming it until the last possible moment.
3. If you look at past roles in these Upick games, linked here for your convenience, weak visitor isn't a likely role to be included (this point is debatable though).
4. Easy to claim for scum, isn't it?

VOTE: BROseidon

That's L-1

1) Considering the fact that so many people think BRO is scummy I'm not really surprised even if there wasn't an intent to hammer. GG has spent so much time trying to defend Hermy (it is defending no matter what he says) that I would not be surprised if there was a Hermy-hammer set up to finish BRO off before he could claim. If not for Trine unvoting he could easily be dead now.
2) Actually I think the idea of 'hinting' at who they are going to target is basically useless and full of WIFOM. The weak visitor's best use is to confirm people as town, not identify scum. You can do this whether you claim or not. There is also the possibility that he isn't a weak visitor and is actually a hider, in which case his claim makes more sense.
3) My role isn't included either so your point is null and void.
4) So are other roles, what's your point?

[XScorpion]

XScorpion, how are you planning to get a read on Hermy, given what you know of her?

I'm going to wait and see what she contributes. At the moment I have no reason to think she is town and a good reason to think she is scum, so I'll have to see if that changes. There are scummier people to deal with right now though who you aren't defending as 'lynch-bait'. If we lynch someone else (besides you) and they flip scum I'll be more likely to think that she isn't scum.

GG has spent so much time trying to defend Hermy that I would not be surprised if there was a Hermy-hammer set up to finish BRO off before he could claim

Can you explain the connection between me defending Hermy and Hermy hammering BROseidon?

Hermy is the person most likely to get away with a hammer and not immediately die the next day because both you and her would make excuses saying that 'oh it's because she's lynch-bait' etc. etc.

[XScorpion]

Also, about BRO:
That claim was horrible. No intent to hammer, relatively early in the day, no danger of being lynched.

He says Hermy may have derphammered but Hermy was already on the wagon.

I missed this too, but I still don't like this wagon at all.

I

always claim

before intent to hammer because I don't trust 2/3 of people on this site.

Example games?

[XScorpion]

The wagon sucks because the last two votes on it (Hermy/tier) are so bad.
As for your other question, if Hermy actually did hammer and you defended it, I'd still be 100% convinced she is scum. Your alignment is more unclear but probably town just because I feel like it's just too ridiculous for the scumteam to out themselves like that, especially since it's an easy town win with any additional investigative roles when Hermy flips scum.

[XScorpion]

Also that scenario would require gg, des, trine, and tier to be on the wagon without Hermy otherwise she couldn't hammer. Somehow I actually doubt she will hammer anyone this game if her attitude is to jump on obvious wagons right away.

[XScorpion]

I think you missed the argument in the part you quoted.

I said I didn't like you not attacking any of the better playing players

, not that an easy lynch is wrong. Looks like you're trying to twist my argument against you back to me.

This implies you think some of the better players are scum. Who?

I like the Trine vote.

[XScorpion]

So you're saying Des should be attacking his null reads and not his scumreads?

[XScorpion]

So what points do you have left exactly?
The only things I don't like about des' play are when he votes w/o explaining why immediately (e.g. 221). Town shouldn't have to ask the reasoning for the vote, it should be provided.

[XScorpion]

In the same post where you accuse him of deflecting, you also call BRO your #1 scum read, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt here.

[XScorpion]

Yes. Someone who votes fpr your scumread can provide faulty reasoning, so what's the grain of salt for?

Also pointing at the fact that desp first tries to use my own argument against me and only later on tries to invalidate my argument.

Because your reasoning is no better; you're both using the same arguments, so maybe you're both scum and this is distancing?

BRO, what do you think of tiershift?

[XScorpion]

BRO, how often do you do language analysis? I've only finished one game with you, and you used it when you were scum.

[XScorpion]

Link to game where you used it to successfully catch scum?

[XScorpion]

(Note: This is not a promise only a prediction)

Promise so that I don't have to lynch you.

[XScorpion]

Why shouldn't we lynch Who? Anyone?

[XScorpion]

Why shouldn't we lynch Who? Anyone?

Because it would be better to lynch scum.

I feel almost like it's the same thing.

[XScorpion]

Why shouldn't we lynch Who? Anyone?

Because it would be better to lynch scum.

I feel almost like it's the same thing.

So you feel it is the same thing to lynch a player who is currently quiet and may or may not improve as it is to find scum?

No, I feel like I would be lynching scum.

[XScorpion]

There's quiet and then there's making excuses for not posting any content. Who is scum? (You may answer this question with 'yes' if you want).

[XScorpion]

Hermy & ...?

[XScorpion]

You have got to be kidding me.

How does that warrant a townread?
How is it critical thinking? He doesn't even have his facts straight.

Zoya head of Trine: I want your opinion on this post.

It is a familiar disconnect for me. There is a style of scum-hunting that couldn't be more alien to me if the divergence in brain evolution coincided with the appearance of Tiktaalik

~ Zoya

I feel like this was written in a language other than English because I don't know what Bro is asking nor what Zoya answered. Can I get a translator?

[XScorpion]

What I was asking was:
Why is BRO asking about that post?
And which logic makes no sense? GG's 'I don't deserve a townread' logic? or my logic? or what?
These questions are probably best answered by BRO & Trine but I still am a bit lost here so any clarification is welcome.

@Who: do you think GG is scum with hermy because he has been defending her more than any other reason? Who is scum with Tier, and why can't he be Hermy's partner?

[XScorpion]

Where does this "argument" take you with regards to me and Hermy alignment-wise?
I think I see what you're implying here but I want you to spell it out.

The wagon sucks because the last two votes on it (Hermy/tier) are so bad.
As for your other question, if Hermy actually did hammer and you defended it, I'd still be 100% convinced she is scum. Your alignment is more unclear but probably town just because I feel like it's just too ridiculous for the scumteam to out themselves like that, especially since it's an easy town win with any additional investigative roles when Hermy flips scum.

[XScorpion]

Prodded. My thoughts on things people are talking about:
I don't think Who asking about the identity of the head is scummy, but the unvote/vote thing is definitely stupid.
The Bro/GG thing seems like town on town to me.
I am curious as to why there are still two people not voting (Tier, GG)?

[XScorpion]

Why do you believe you need a 'certain scumread' to vote? Do you not believe that voting people for pressure helps to get reactions that indicate whether players are town or scum? Not voting anyone is about as useful as the announced unvote reaction test.

[XScorpion]

You've dodged answering the question. Do you believe or not?

[XScorpion]

So I could vote for pressure, but I don't see the need for it at this particular moment.

Why?

[XScorpion]

That's very presumptuous and I don't agree, but if you insist then I guess that's all I can say.
What do you think about des?

[XScorpion]

I don't like TierShift's recent posts but I'm very afraid that they're noobtown.

My sentiments exactly. I'd be willing to make a fair wager that Tier is just scum though.
Tier, what do you think of Who?
Who, what do you think of Tier?

[XScorpion]

Can everyone give a reads list for right now?
Personally:

Scummy- Who, Hermy/Eel, Tier
Null- TV, Des
Town-Bro, GG, Trine

[XScorpion]

XScorpion – Scum. I liked him in the beginning, I don’t anymore. He doesn’t question the townreads he’s being given enough, particularly the one given by Turkish Van. I didn’t like his thought-process when it came to a possible Hermy-hammer. He backed off of it, but it felt like an extremely opportunistic (post 213) push on Hermy. And even though his theory there clearly hints at some concertation between me and Hermy in that scenario, he backs down off of it awfully quick in 247.

I find pushing townreads less important than pushing scumreads, which is what I've been doing with tier/who.
So wait; if I kept with the hermy-hammer thought process, I'd be scummy, and because I backed off it, I'm scummy? Thanks for the vote of confidence there.
Also you claim that I was pushing Hermy, but I didn't vote Hermy did I? So what does that mean to you?
I'm willing to join the Who wagon. I don't really have a preference between Tier and Who.
@Bro: What do you think about Who?

VOTE: Who this is

L-1

, no dipshit hammers please.

[XScorpion]

Should read: I agree that

some of

the players uninterested in the Who wagon are scummy in their own rights, and particularly like your Turkish Van read.

~ Zoya

Who is 'some of'?

[XScorpion]

I have him as weak town.

Why?

[XScorpion]

XScorpion, you have no preference between TierShift and Who? Like, flipping a coin level of no preference? If nothing else, what do you think of the people voting each wagon?

--PA

Yes, coinflip. I would eagerly join either lynch.

Can everyone give a reads list for right now?
Personally:

Scummy- Who, Hermy/Eel, Tier
Null- TV, Des
Town-Bro, GG, Trine

Each has one null, but the Who lynch has two townreads, so that's where my vote is.

[XScorpion]

...you're kidding me right? Who claims and gets lynched before I even get to come back to respond? Obviously someone wanted a lynch before I could unvote, and I wonder who
Trine, what the hell?
I see GG is in the same boat as me, so he's probably town too.
BRO I don't know why you are so upset, obviously the people who didn't listen to you are scum so what's the problem?

Intent to hammer Tier.

We have lots of time before the day is over but Tier is scum so I don't think it matters.

[XScorpion]

Guys we should indeed be not so quick to end this. Xscorp has stated intent to hammer so if anyone on my wagon isn't 100% sure of me being scum please unvote.

Scorp, is there anything you want to know apart from the claim before the hammer?

I don't understand your role whatsoever or your logic behind why you didn't listen to BRO.
Role: what kind of a 'random QT message' do you get?
Listening: Why didn't you?
VOTE: Tiershift L-1, this is not a hammer because Who unvoted.

[XScorpion]

As for why I didn't listen: if I hadn't hammered and the wagon would have died down, I'm certain I would get lynched.

I believe you. That's why I'm voting you

P-edit: No one is quickhammering unless they want to die a quick death tomorrow.
No, you wouldn't have lurked a bit more, because if you did then GG and I would have chances to unvote and prevent this stupidity.

[XScorpion]

MMmm dat chainsaw defense.

1) Tell me how you got to GG being town based on his absence during the hammer. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.
2) Why did you only address Trine? Where is my name?

1) because you're scum too
2) because you're scum too

Why did you put him at L-1 if you don't want him to be lynched? Don't give me that quickhammer crap. Putting someone at L-1 is setting up a lynch. You don't put down the L-1 vote unless you want that person to be lynched. This post is nothing more than making empty threats and trying to posture. I'd even go as far as saying that if Tier flips town, XS is scum. I don't like the buddying to GG either. If XScorpion flips scum, GG is town. This is XScorpion blatantly distancing himself from a town mislynch while pushing it. It makes no sense to want to lynch someone over a possible quickhammer if you put down the L-1.

Why would you be against a quickhammer of scum? Why would "anyone die" for lynching a scum? If you're going to say "because not everyone has replied to this claim etc." then you should stop right there. Let me recap the previous paragraphs: Without an L-1 vote there would be no quickhammer. Stop posturing.

I do want him to be lynched. A quickhammer means his scumbuddy is trying to silence him before Tier outs him. This didn't happen though, did it? Instead, you, his scumbuddy, are now going to stop bussing him and chainsaw. But thank you for confirming my suspicions.

[XScorpion]

Scum is not in
[Trine, Tier, Bro, Eek, Who]
They're in
[GG, TV, desp, scorp]

Yes, the town is so stupid that they decided to tell Bro he is a moron and lynch Who despite it being the dumbest move possible. You're a genius. Just genius.

[XScorpion]

Character name is John Rook and I believe that my game was called 'don't take it personally, babe, it just aint your story'.

You believe? You're the one who picked the game, so is that the game you picked or isn't it?

Vote Turkish Van

You backed off of the Who wagon awfully quick after his claim, while still voicing suspicion on him. It smells like distancing.

-Amadeus

I noticed this too but then realized Tier replaced into the game and thus didn't choose the indie game.

[XScorpion]

Oh wow. You thought I was scum at the time you were posting that GG is town? How convenient to not tell so at the time, but just now, right as I'm voting you. Can't remember any suspicion thrown my way back then.

Again; why was GG town at the time of your post? I'm not talking now, because I don't care about that. Why was GG town at the time of the lynch?

Read plz

Can everyone give a reads list for right now?
Personally:

Scummy- Who, Hermy/Eel, Tier
Null- TV, Des
Town-Bro, GG, Trine

He was town at the time of the lynch because you two are the scum who made the lynch happen. Now I'm sure he's town because he's not scum (you two are).

Oh please. If I was bussing him I wouldn't have backed down. I would have kept my vote on. Multiple people have expressed their intent in getting Tier lynched. Why would I back down out of a guaranteed bus? Why would I initiate a bus, have it almost done and then bail while chainsaw defending him? This makes no sense.

You'd back out of a guaranteed bus to get a town mislynch instead (preferable for scum).
Because you're pretty certain you can convince enough people to leave the Tier wagon to get me lynched instead. Good luck!

What does make sense is that I recognized Tier as being town, I backed out of it and found actual scum. Your reaction is forced (dat chainsaw), you're grasping for straws on your attacker, you're ad homming. I see flailing scum who got outed and after a first vote on you nonetheless. Are you always this jumpy?

It is a chainsaw, I don't need to grasp at straws (you're both scum for lynching who), where am I ad homming? And yes, I am always this jumpy (GG can attest).

Yes, we made a mistake. Mislynches happen, get over it. And in this case I don't understand how anyone could come to a different conclusion. Anyone with even a slight understanding of mafia would have thought that role was made up in such a small setting. Too good to be true? Never heard of that?

No no no this is not a mistake. BRO clearly told you the logical line of play, and 'anyone with even a slight understanding of mafia' would realize he was correct. Why didn't you listen to him? Even if the role was too good to be true, what exactly was stopping you from just lynching him on day 2? No, you lynched him day 1 because otherwise we'd have two conftowns and you couldn't have that. Simple.
I know it feels bad that you have to claim stupid town in order to not claim scum, but that's how things go guys.

I just can't get over how many times you need to make Clear you wouldn't have lynched Who. One would think one comment would suffice. Yet here you are still calling names and still posturing over it.

I reiterate this because this is precisely why you are scum and I am not.

Eek raises some valid points and all you can come up with is lol don't listen guys it's chainsaw?
You say it doesn't matter how long the day takes because I'm confscum for you but then you say anyone who hammers will be lynched? Where's the logic? You also stated you were wanting to hammer and I guess you would have if not for the unvote. You are suggesting to PL someone for the same you were wanting to do.

Well it is.
You forget that because I'm not scum I don't actually know for certain who is scum, so maybe your scumbuddy would quickhammer you and prevent you from squealing. I already said this but thanks for addressing an argument I've already posted about.
Yes, I wanted to hammer. Right away? No, there's no need for that if you were going to tell us who your scumbuddy is. Now that I know, it's pretty straightforward from here.

BTW if I am wrong and one of the two of you are not scum, I'm looking at Trine for the third. But we can afford one town mislynch and I suspect there will be additional conftowns soon.
Can I ask why people think Bro is scum? If it's because of a role thing I'm willing to bet you are wrong.
Hey scumteam, if I am scum, who is scum with me?

[XScorpion]

Your logic makes perfect sense from perspective of scum trying to survive. As town you should have listened to Bro. That's my point.

[XScorpion]

Sure it seemed too good to be true. But bro was still right.

[XScorpion]

Do you think GG is scum?
I like how you dodged the question at the end of my post.

Oh, because BRO told us the optimal play, then sure, we should follow him? Sorry, I make my own decisions.

Scum mentality.

[XScorpion]

Des why are you lurking?

[XScorpion]

I can't argue with that.

[XScorpion]

Like I already said, your explanations make perfect sense from the position of scum trying to survive. As town, you should have let yourself be lynched. Either Who would reset time and you would be conftown along with him, or he was scum and thus we would catch him.

[XScorpion]

IF YOU ARE TOWN AND GET MISLYNCHED THEN REWINDING TIME WOULD BRING YOU BACK AS CONFTOWN.
However since you're scum, if we lynched you then we wouldn't rewind time, so you had no choice.

[XScorpion]

Roleclaim: Tim from Braid, the Time Traveller
Once, I can Rewind time by a night and a day. Anyone who died then will be revived. I can Rewind time immediately after dying, but only immediately after, so if I am lynched today I'll Rewind to the beginning of day one and be conftown (I flip town then Revive), but we'll only have me,

if I rewinded after a towny was lynched and a towny died we would have 2 conftownies+Me being probtown from role

. And flips do reveal alignment, this role seemed rather awesome so I checked pre-game.

[XScorpion]

Get lynched please.

[XScorpion]

I was responding to the last part of the post, what would happen if who was scum.

I'm also pretty sure who would rewind time if scum were lynched and he were NK'd for the town but eh let'S leave that be.

I get the feeling everyone is willfully misrepping me.

If who was scum and you were town, then we trade a mislynch on you for a scumlynch on Who. Given that your role is shitty, I don't see why you wouldn't jump at this opportunity (I would if I was town).

[XScorpion]

I think you lied about having read my posts and having responded to my reasoning.

I already said countless times that if who were scum, a me mislynch would be absolutely unnecessary. I was pretty sure that who was scum so I hammered.

Please don't tell me you would deliberately mislynch yourself to get someone else lynched that you are sure is scum when you can just hammer said person.

No, but I would deliberately mislynch myself if it gave us 100% certainty to catch scum, which in this case it would. That's a lot better than your 'pretty sure' chance. Instead you fuck everyone over and lynch the PR because of your scum survival instincts. Nice try though.

[XScorpion]

There is a point where the benefit of verifying if someone is scum is outweighed by the losing of 2 town members (yes 2, there's a NK) and that point is based on the chance that said person (in this case who) is scum.
Lemme put it like this: if you're 99% sure someone is scum, you are not sacrificing your ass for a 1% chance he ain't scum.
I think the chance that who was scum was so very high that I wouldn't sacrifice myself. I don't regret hammering who, I don't think I've done something wrong. Nobody has brought up valid points as to why who wasn't scummy enough for me to hammer. You've only brought up the possibility for a d2 PL which would never pull me out of the grave if who is scum.

I'm gonna summarize it one last time for ya:
There was a chance who was town, in which case a PL d2 or reverting time after NK would have been best.
There also was a chance that who was scum, in which case hammering was best. It would have been better than a PL d2 so idg what you're ramblin about, BRO.
I know that the benefits of not hammering versus hammering in scenario 1 are far greater than the benefits of hammering versus not hammering in scenario 2, but I thought scenario 2 to be

many times

more likely. So I hammered.

That's the logic I've been using all day and no one's dared to call me out on it being wrong. So stop fucking whining about my hammer if the reasoning behind it is right.
Scorp tell me why this can't be town reasoning.

On another note, I find it interesting how scorp is only comfortable when pushing for my lynch, when he's under pressure he plays fucking horrible.

There's a NK, but there's also a chance for town PRs to do things, which includes (at the very least) a use of the weak visitor (which you knew existed). Regardless, 2 town for 1 scum is still a win for town. You made the wrong choice. The reasoning is wrong. You are scum. Die already.

[XScorpion]

There is a point where the benefit of verifying if someone is scum is outweighed by the losing of 2 town members (yes 2, there's a NK) and that point is based on the chance that said person (in this case who) is scum.

No one actually believes this, do they?
"99%" is bullshit and you know it. NO ONE was that sure Who was scum.

what good is QT-investigations for scum?

Masons/neighbours. Besides, there's no way to verify the QT messages aren't made up anyway.

Also visitor =/= neighbourizer.

I don't mind flavor claiming day 2, but claiming day 1 only helps scum to figure out who might have certain power roles (e.g. I wonder what role Robocop would have hurr durr).
Anyway Tier is lying about his role so it doesn't matter.

[XScorpion]

Why do you say Tier is lying about his role?

Because it is impossible to verify, and unlike Bro's claim, the results he comes up with don't actually mean anything.

[XScorpion]

I'm agreeing with gg on the claiming flavor, I'm pretty sure alduskkel can make up at least 5 roles for each flavor.

Scum

[XScorpion]

Why do you say Tier is lying about his role?

Because it is impossible to verify, and unlike Bro's claim, the results he comes up with don't actually mean anything.

That doesn't make it a lie.

Given what has been revealed about the set up, town must have some null utility or even negative utility roles. Or scum must be exceptionally buffed.

Going with the latter. I think there are either 3 scum, or 2 scum with crazy-good abilities.

[XScorpion]

Why do you say Tier is lying about his role?

Because it is impossible to verify, and unlike Bro's claim, the results he comes up with don't actually mean anything.

That doesn't make it a lie.

Given what has been revealed about the set up, town must have some null utility or even negative utility roles. Or scum must be exceptionally buffed.

Going with the latter. I think there are either 3 scum, or 2 scum with crazy-good abilities.

I expect some from column A and some from column B.

If you aren't scum then I bet you're column A.

[XScorpion]

Plus, Eek is right, he is flailing and mindlessly pushing in the way where he's trying to make everything from his targets look scummy without actually considering intent. This shows that he's more interested in scoring a lynch than finding scum. However, the biggest point against him is his blatant buddying of Bro. He's taken every Opportunity he can to stroke Bro's ego and get on his good side. Which is funny, since Scorp wasn't paying attention to anything that Bro was saying when he was pushing the Who wagon. Yet all of a sudden he's regurgitating Bro's points of view and using them to try to lynch others on the Who wagon?

1) Lynching the powerful town PR seems like pretty scummy intent, considering the proposed day 2 PL alternative.
2) I don't need to buddy anyone; it's a simple matter of 'this is the best move so let's do it', and the people who didn't do it are all voting me. Coincidence? I don't think so.
3)

Wait wtf XScorp didn't post b/w the claim and the hammer.

I'm a big fan of making the best decision, no matter who proposed it to begin with (which is why Eek is scum). Good try though.

I'm agreeing with gg on the claiming flavor, I'm pretty sure alduskkel can make up at least 5 roles for each flavor.

Scum

?

I don't mind flavor claiming day 2, but claiming day 1 only helps scum to figure out who might have certain power roles (e.g. I wonder what role Robocop would have hurr durr).

There is no pro-town benefit to a flavor claim day 1. This is a scum plan.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

[XScorpion]

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

The points Eek brought up in 508. You have not responded to them without using any other logic than lol everyone who attacks me is scum.

Don't misrep; I called you both scum before either of you were voting me.

[XScorpion]

I addressed both of you already. If you're looking for me to fabricate some other reasoning, it's not going to happen, because it wouldn't be the truth.

[XScorpion]

Do you mean 521? I address that in 523. If you mean 527, I answered everything that I felt deserved an answer in 528 (I'm not going to waste time repeating 'you guys are scum', I think it's clear enough). If I missed something that is actually relevant and worth addressing let me know.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

The points Eek brought up in 508. You have not responded to them without using any other logic than

lol everyone who attacks me is scum.

Don't misrep; I called you both scum before either of you were voting me.

I don't misrep nor have I said you didn't call us scum before. What I did say, is that your only defense is that we are scum and you have now confirmed it to be your only defense. I really can't believe you don't have anything else to offer.

Bold = misrep. You're not scum because you attacked me, you're scum because you didn't listen to Bro and lynched the PR.
Why do I need to offer anything to scum?

[XScorpion]

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

It won't give scum any idea who has what role, as I explained in my previous post. I want to do this because town wouldn't care to out their role and

it makes it harder for scum to fakeclaim later on

.

Contradiction.
GET LYNCHED.

[XScorpion]

Contradiction.
GET LYNCHED.

Lol no?
Explain how bolded parts contradict themselves.

Lemme put another example for the slow ones.
Let's say you chose Guitar Hero as a game, yes? I'm sure the mod can come up with a shitton of roles for that game.

Scum can't know what your role is if you claim it.

It does narrow all possible claims down, though.

You aren't able to fakeclaim bomb anymore, for instance.
See what I'm getting at?

More contradictions.

Bold = misrep. You're not scum because you attacked me, you're scum because you didn't listen to Bro and lynched the PR.
Why do I need to offer anything to scum?

Ok that was actually unclear. What I meant was that your defense was "I see all the persons attacking me at this moment (me and eek) as scum, so I don't have to address their points". Which is what you are saying once again.

And no, I still mean 508. You have answered my question to address that with: 'this is a misrep'. Please.

Which points do you want me to address? Just be specific.
Did you already tell me who is scum with me? I must have missed it, can you remind me?

[XScorpion]

I want you to address everything that is aimed at you in 508.
I have not yet discovered your partner, but I'm pretty sure it ain't bro or eek.

Let me take the flavor claiming to an even easier level.
If no flavor claim, about 10000 (perhaps even more) possible roles, yes?
If flavor claim, about 100 possible roles, yes?

If flavor claim, less possibility to fakeclaim, yes?

Please tell me in what part my logic gets too complicated

I wrote 516 for that. You can read it again if you'd like.
You're not trying to scumhunt for a partner.

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

It won't give scum any idea who has what role,

as I explained in my previous post. I want to do this because town wouldn't care to out their role and it makes it harder for scum to fakeclaim later on.

Bolded are statements that contradict. Either flavor claim reduces fakeclaim possibilities AND aids scum in narrowing down roles, or it does neither.

[XScorpion]

Would not be surprised if scum have mod-given fakeclaims already anyway, which further suggests the scum intent behind a flavor claim.

[XScorpion]

I've asked you to address the stuff said in 508 while using another argument than 'eek and tier are scum'. 516 is using only that argument.

Because that is my reasoning. I'm not going to tell lies or make up new arguments to appease you.

If it doesn't narrow things down far enough to be useful for scum, it doesn't narrow things down enough to be useful for us either.
Flavor claim only benefits scum and I won't do it, and no one else should either.

[XScorpion]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5527807

[XScorpion]

@Bro: I've already asked that and they've all been dodging it because they haven't actually bothered to think about it.

[XScorpion]

The line is based on me thinking if they can be scum with scorp or not? I don't get your question.

Did my rereading, now I think that TV is scorp's most likely partner, as they have addressed each other exactly once (correct me if I'm wrong), scorp saying "TV's post is a good one" and TV saying "I like the critical thinking. Townread".

They seem to be avoiding each other.

Trine is still a possibility, as their interaction with scorp doesn't go very in-depth and feels a tad forced.

I scratch desp from my list, as I see no connection between desp and xscorp whatsoever.

Who, let me know if you need me to answer anything

[XScorpion]

Emergency V/LA due to ice storms crippling electricity for 250k people in my area.

[XScorpion]

Joining the party on people who think Amadeus is wrong about scum pushing hard (but I think that was already a given).

How does the above (especially the "best decision" part) make Eek scum?

Not going with the most pro-town plan is scummy, especially when the opposite choice involves lynching a powerful town PR. Do you disagree?

I don't get why my post seems off. Xscorp, I will rephrase the parts you bolded.
You and TV have had almost no interaction, while there certainly was a big opportunity window to do so and there was enough to talk about. That strikes me as off.
Then, your interaction with desp seems pretty normal, no reason to assume a connection.

TV, I can't understand how you say that you want to lynch me or eek, then say you have a scumread on eek and then tell me that I'm at the same level of scumminess for a badly phrased post????

The reason I say it makes no sense is because the logic you are using to connect me and TV (we haven't had much interaction although we could have) also applies to Des (we haven't had much interaction although we could have). Am I scum with both?

[XScorpion]

How was it high risk/low reward? First off, the reward was obviously very high, because Who could have made 3 conftowns on day 2. Secondly, just because it is high risk doesn't mean they won't do it; the penalty for NOT lynching Who seemed very persuasive. How do you know Eel and Tier are town, and that they weren't simply the scumteam making sure Who didn't survive? I'm using Occam's Razor here.

I simply don't agree that town are more likely to not follow the most pro-town plan. Take that as you will.

[XScorpion]

or example, they could keep Who alive and kill Bro during the night. Town goes nuts and mislynches whoever Bro was on (assuming that person was town), and now scum have turned Who's ability to their advantage and can keep him alive for a little longer, since he's a useless innocent.

Except that if bro is the only person who dies then we can't confirm that Bro's target is scum. Also, how do you know for sure Bro is town? We also have confirmed that whoever got lynched in Who's place is town or scum. What's with you three and trying to say Bro's plan wasn't correct?

Re: 20 games - please don't be condescending; your opinion is not more valid than anyone else's.

[XScorpion]

Since no one on the Tier/Eel wagons has switched and I want to lynch one of them today, it's time to move my vote over.
VOTE: Milked eel

[XScorpion]

Oh I'll put my vote back where it was.
VOTE: Tiershift
That should be L-1, unless I miscounted.

[XScorpion]

Clock is ticking, can we get this lynch on please?

[XScorpion]

Ummm I really don't want a no-lynch today guys...

[XScorpion]

Why is Who still alive?

[XScorpion]

I can think of a role that makes sense of the mod PM about XScorp.

XScorp why did you choose Eek?

~ Zoya

I chose the person I thought least likely to die.

[XScorpion]

Scorp,
Does the flavor fit?

To the people not understanding what happened:
I got my result pm telling me etl went to desp and scorp. And the mod confirmed scorp as town to me.
I claimed etl went to only desp to gauge his reaction, to see what he would reply, I had a feeling he'd confirm my claim of him having one night target, but I thought he wouldn't mention Scorp.

I don't see how this is confusing.

Yeah I'm Isaac.

But you didn't factor in whether you thought the player was town or scum?

Thought about it, but realized that even if eel was scum, why would he lie about the PM? Seems an easy way to confirm to me that he is scum if he lies (I knew if there was a roleblocker than Bro was the obvious target [unless Bro was scum but even then I don't seem like a likely choice]).

[XScorpion]

I can think of a role that makes sense of the mod PM about XScorp.

XScorp why did you choose Eek?

~ Zoya

I chose the person I thought least likely to die.

Friendly Neighbor.

~ Zoya

You win!

[XScorpion]

The scum must have some crazy powerful abilities.
Or we might have a Beloved Princess, considering what Who said.

[XScorpion]

I can't think of many additional win conditions that aren't bastard modding.
Maybe there is an SK?

[XScorpion]

That has always been the standard every time I have been scum.

Was it standard in sabotage?
VOTE: ETL not losing to your flavor cop scum role two games in a row thanks.

[XScorpion]

That wasnt a flavor cop thing anyway.

Flavor action whatever. You knew I used a 'promote' ability.

Why would I purposefully lie about something I know you'd be able to catch me on...

Easy for you to forget.

You die today, and if you flip town then we kill Eek. Simple stuff.

[XScorpion]

By the way, you should claim if someone intends to hammer.
And no quickhammers please or you die the next day (if ETL scumflip) or after Eek (if ETL townflip)

[XScorpion]

UNVOTE: for now.
I'll go first. I'm Isaac from the Binding of Isaac, the friendly neighborizer. SHOCK AND AWE

[XScorpion]

9. Don't quote PMs you get from me or any quicktopics you may have access to. Paraphrasing is your friend.

Don't wanna get banned and stuff.
But check out the game. Isaac is the protagonist. He's just a little boy whose mom wants to brutally murder him. I guess I could have been innocent child too but I'm not, probably for balance reasons. I bet the scum can screw with our abilities to target things.

[XScorpion]

Is Trine REALLY an indie game?

[XScorpion]

I don't wanna quote the PM and get banned and stuff. The way the mod worded it makes sense.

[XScorpion]

Uh okay
Isaac is a tiny child and through observation it is evident that he is a good guy and not a bad guy (and the fact that his tears are how he defeats enemies is not relevant) and so at night I can make it evident to someone that I am town.

Is that ok mod

[XScorpion]

Herp derp why didn't I message the mod ><
OK I'm not getting banned

[XScorpion]

I have a REALLY hard time seeing MME as an informative/investigation role. For me this feels like the setup is super town sided and super is just small amount of how I really feel.

We have currently claimed:

Who - Town Reviver {Basically now an IC}
BRO - Weak Visitor {Basically and essentially a cop}
MME - Tracker {Basically a cop}
TS - QT Spy
XScrop - Friendly Neighbor
Desperado - Delayed DayKiller [?]
ETL - Flavor Cop [?]
Trine - ??
TV - Not tellin'.

Unless scum have some whacky/awesome powers someone here is lying. We have Who is modconfirmed to be town (467.)

We have BRO claiming to be RB'd or something, but Penguin think he's town and I also believe that so I'm letting that go from now.

TS/Desperado are confirmed due to deaths {lynch/NK}.

XSc is claiming to be a friendly neighbor which has the mod send a message to another playing saying 'I'm town'. Whoever my paranoia is getting the best of me and wondering if he's a mailman pretending to be a friendly neighbor. A mailman works very similar to a friendly neighbor.

Trine pulls up a good point on MME. Claiming to have an 'useless' role, but a tracker isn't useless. So wondering if he could be fake claiming this role on ETL.

I just need to move my car into the street. Back in a few

~Mala

I'm Isaac the mailman? How the fuck does that make any flavor sense?

[XScorpion]

MME or etl is scum. One is lying. It's that simple.

[XScorpion]

Slenderman is a bad guy...

Extremely valid point.

[XScorpion]

Current Status:

Alignments have randomly been determined

. Roles are now being created and should be done sometime on the 27th.

I don't think Slenderman being a bad guy in the game has anything to do with Eek's alignment.

Slenderman is not a character we expected if the mechanic is actually that Eek's results aren't sane.

And if he makes his target insane, then why did ETL get back a valid result on XScorp?

~ Zoya

Ah, but alignments come before roles and we gave 3 games. As a mod if I randomly determined MME was town and had to give a role, I think I'd go for the second game choice if slender was pick #1.

[XScorpion]

I'm Isaac the mailman? How the fuck does that make any flavor sense?

presumably if you were lying about your role, your flavor could also be BS?

This requires ETL to be scum too.

Ah, but alignments come before roles and we gave 3 games. As a mod if I randomly determined MME was town and had to give a role, I think I'd go for the second game choice if slender was pick #1.

The only reason we had to pick multiple games was in case our first choice was already taken. Eek's claim makes sense. Definitely more than yours does.

-Amadeus

Didn't know this. And that's nice. Do you think I'm scum?

[XScorpion]

All 3 of you?

[XScorpion]

This requires ETL to be scum too.

Not if you're a mailman?

Not saying that's where I'm going, but I'm saying that it's theoretically possible.

I don't follow. ETL targeted me and got a result of Isaac. What does that have to do with mailmen?

[XScorpion]

I feel like Xscorp could be lying and trying to play another role similar to a friendly neighbor or MME's role is scum.

What role am I then if not friendly neighbor? Keep in mind 853 when you answer.

[XScorpion]

XScorp is mod confirmed town

MME or etl is scum. One is lying. It's that simple.

False dichotomy.

Already mentioned:
- other role that messes with night results
- etl involuntarily targeting other people because of my role's possible insanity modifier (not insane on my end as that would mean that I'd get no result back and not in the wording of my role pm).

ETL still targeted me for sure though because if ETL targeted Des then presumably she would get Des' flavor claim, while she still got mine (Isaac, Binding of Isaac).
This means that either ETL is scum (simplest answer) or there is indeed a role that messes with night results. I suppose the latter isn't impossible but it would be a really weird role because literally all it did was make it look like ETL targeted Des when she didn't.

Vote Count 2.04

EspeciallyTheLies (2) - My Milked Eek, BROseidon

Not Voting (5) - Trine, Who, Turkish Van, XScorpion, EspeciallyTheLies

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

The deadline is on January 10th, 9:00 P.M. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2014-01-10 21:00:00)

[XScorpion]

Didn't you just say bro is all but conftown to you now, Trine?

Yeah now I'm confused

[XScorpion]

Trine, why did you dodge BRO last night?

And why didn't you use doctor on Bro?

[XScorpion]

Trine, why did you dodge BRO last night?

And why didn't you use doctor on Bro?

We checked with the mod. If we protected him, then his visit wouldn't kill him no matter who he visited. That could have resulted in a false "clear" if he decided to visit someone who was actually scum.

You knew he was visiting you though. Everyone knew.

[XScorpion]

OMFG. THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. A game with a weak neighborizer and scum with a commute ability?

Get your role names right, but yes. This could make a lot of sense.

Yeah I guess I'd be pretty fucked if I had targeted Trine instead of Eek...

[XScorpion]

We put the doc protect target on BOTH confirmed town so scum would consider targeting in the other town players.

It worked.

What
I'm confused

[XScorpion]

We put the doc protect target on BOTH confirmed town so scum would consider targeting in the other town players.

It worked.

What
I'm confused

We said Doc should protect BRO or WHO, to plant the idea that we'd (or someone) should flip a coin, as well as to draw the kill our way.

We played it to hopefully shield 3 players between uncertainty about who would be protected as well as our own commute.

It worked. Neither Who nor BRO were protected.

Whoever is ultimately lynched, the two protect roles need to be on those two and town should decide who guards which.

Then if one dies tonight it's a scum claim on the part of the player who should have protected them.

So you're saying scum should kill me then. Thanks a lot.

[XScorpion]

Then if one dies tonight it's a scum claim on the part of the player who should have protected them.

This is total bullshit especially since odds are that we have scum who can screw with night actions.

[XScorpion]

We obviously can't give scum too much of a roadmap of where and how to dodge town,

I think this times a thousand. There are plenty of conftowns if you believe Bro is town, so protect who you want.

[XScorpion]

There is no way that we are at LYLO today.

And now I'm paranoid. What if we are?

[XScorpion]

Could use a votecount right about now.

[XScorpion]

I've made up my mind but I want to hear from Who first.

[XScorpion]

Can we get a prod on Who please

[XScorpion]

who the fuck are you

[XScorpion]

Trine is scum JOAT?

[XScorpion]

I guess it would explain the commute very well.
How do you explain MME's night results then

[XScorpion]

Do we have all the PR names? Is it worth digging through them to see who would be likely to have the former ability?
Depending on what 'insanity' does, MME could certainly be scum but it's too unclear. I can see it being extremely hazardous if say, it made all results target player receives get reversed (so Bro would get scum results which kills him, message received from mod says I'm scum, etc.).

[XScorpion]

I mean if it was Trine and MME that would certainly support the 'scum lynched Who' mindset I had yesterday...

[XScorpion]

I believe that wagon and the sentiments that drove it to completion were town.

Bad decisions, but I still believe they were town decisions.

I hate to leave BRO exposed because he's GOOD at adopting mafia theory to the gamestate and town is going to need that.

Yet you didn't listen to him earlier about Who. There is a discontinuity here.
VOTE: Trine
Who should we lynch if you flip town? Presumably Who or I will die tonight unless TV is town and protects us or ETL is town and bodyguards us.

[XScorpion]

Eek you should put your vote somewhere useful. Like Trine or ETL.

Who/Scorp, leaving it to you to decide who to lynch. I've made my opinion clear. If it's a scum flip, I'm using my ability on TV if ETL is lynched and Eek if Trine is lynched. Townflip means I don't do anything.

If townflip and you die tonight, who do we lynch tomorrow?

[XScorpion]

Why TV first?
I'll follow your plan if you flip town.

[XScorpion]

If TV and ETL are scum, TV is likely just a scum roleblocker. How do you know what abilities ETL ACTUALLY has? Clearly bodyguard wouldn't be one of them.

[XScorpion]

So when Trine flips scum, XScorp, what's your vote for the protective roles? You-BRO for JK-bodyguard, or Who-you for the same?

Would still like to hear from MME, but I don't hold out much hope there.

--PA

There are 3 logical choices for protection (Me, Bro, Who). Obviously you shouldn't JK Bro, but otherwise no need to tell scum who is protecting whom. Decide on your own.

[XScorpion]

If you didn't want to be lynched today you shouldn't have commuted. I think that sealed your fate.

[XScorpion]

if we were scum, we would have protected him

Since when do Scum get protective powers in games that don't have multiple factions?

[XScorpion]

You made this game more complicated than it needed to be by commuting instead of protecting. Sure, it would be the easy 'confirm'. But it's also more than likely true that you would be town in that situation, compared to now where you look suspicious as hell for commuting when you knew the weak visitor was coming.
Actually, forget all of that. Protecting Bro is a ridiculous idea when you could have simply not tried to direct the scum-kill and instead protected Who (the most likely scum target).

[XScorpion]

Who was?

[XScorpion]

You know what I was asking

[XScorpion]

Who was

?

You made this game more complicated than it needed to be by commuting instead of protecting. Sure, it would be the easy 'confirm'. But it's also more than likely true that you would be town in that situation, compared to now where you look suspicious as hell for commuting when you knew the weak visitor was coming.
Actually, forget all of that. Protecting Bro is a ridiculous idea when you could have simply not tried to direct the scum-kill and instead protected Who (the most likely scum target).

He was far from

the most likely scum target

.

Read bold text only

[XScorpion]

Oh my christ
you think Who was not most likely to be scumkilled night 1. Which player was most likely to be scumkilled night 1?

[XScorpion]

Who/Scorp, you guys don't have much time to pick a side.

I'm in this game pretty much all the time. You can blame my conf-town cohort over there for not voting yet.
The trick is that if the two of us don't agree, we leave the choice of who gets lynched to potential scum which is bad. I could choose to vote ETL instead of Trine but if Who doesn't agree then we're kinda stuck here.

[XScorpion]

UNVOTE: while I wait for who
I've realized I don't want MME to suddenly lynch Trine before he comes back.

[XScorpion]

Except that if bro is the only person who dies then we can't confirm that Bro's target is scum

I said this ages ago and I wouldn't have voted you if he was the only death.
I guess that might not be true for the others.

[XScorpion]

I'm not lynching either of them. I'm not convinced of Trine's scumminess. I'm not convinced of ETL's either.

I really need to recheck that portion of D2 and the last few pages.

So the scumteam is TV and Bro? lol

[XScorpion]

I think a point in favor of lynching ETL is that it tells us on a townflip that either a) MME is scum or b) scum have some power to affect night actions by adding an extra target (although this seems a bit far-fetched).
Whereas a Trine lynch doesnt give much information at all.

[XScorpion]

I'm not saying that, I'm saying I don't know who scum would be between Trine and ETL.

That's what makes today hard, isn't it?
But honestly if the mod told you ETL targeted two people doesn't that seem the obvious choice?

[XScorpion]

Why is that more likely than you just having accurate results?

[XScorpion]

Given this, I can't see scum having a flavorcop. And assuming ETL is scum and a joat, would you honestly see them use their flavor ability? No, that's the dumbest thing you could do.

Except this is literally what happened last time ETL was a scum flavorcop. Even targeted the same person (me).

[XScorpion]

And I assume the setup in that game wasn't as wild as it is in this one?

Wilder even. Check it out http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=32581

[XScorpion]

Ok, assuming ETL is scum, who is his partner according to you?

Well,
I suppose the 1v1 thing makes Trine look like an unlikely partner (plus two JOATs on a scumteam is a little strange).
You are probably not the partner or you wouldn't have accused ETL of having two targets.
BRO seems town.
So I guess TV?

[XScorpion]

and if I pick ETL and Who picks Trine, then what?
MME essentially gets the deciding vote unless you or TV change your minds.

[XScorpion]

What are the roles and role names again?

Me- Isaac (Binding of Isaac), Friendly Neighbor
Trine - the 3 ppl from Trine (Trine), JOAT (used - commuter, unused - roleblocker, doctor)
ETL - Jacket (Hotline Miami), JOAT (used - flavor cop, unused - bodyguard, flavor watcher)
BRO - Kaitlin Greenbriar (Gone Home), Weak Visitor
MME - Slenderman (Slender), Insanity-causing tracker
Who - Tim (Braid), Time Traveller
TV - ??? (???), Jailkeeper

TV who are you?

[XScorpion]

Why the fuck is that a jailkeeper role?

[XScorpion]

Me- Isaac (Binding of Isaac), Friendly Neighbor
Trine - the 3 ppl from Trine (Trine), JOAT (used - commuter, unused - roleblocker, doctor)
ETL - Jacket (Hotline Miami), JOAT (used - flavor cop, unused - bodyguard, flavor watcher)
BRO - Kaitlin Greenbriar (Gone Home), Weak Visitor
MME - Slenderman (Slender), (Possible Insanity-causing) tracker
Who - Tim (Braid), Time Traveller
TV - Crazy Cat Scientist (Mousecraft), Jailkeeper

[XScorpion]

I don't like having to decide this by myself.
But I am pretty confident that neither BRO nor MME is scum.
The 1v1 thing is throwing me off a bit; ETL, what do you think about a TV lynch?

[XScorpion]

I don't like having to decide this by myself.
But I am pretty confident that neither BRO nor MME is scum.
The 1v1 thing is throwing me off a bit; ETL, what do you think about a TV lynch?

The thing is, if you're willing to accept the 1v1 is wrong, then you need to accept that one of BRO and myself is scum (or both).

Not necessarily wrong, but I don't like how it's already been decided which 2 people are the lynch pool. If Trine is correct and TV is more dangerous, why is it not Trine vs TV?

[XScorpion]

TV who is the scumteam

[XScorpion]

Call me cowardly but I'm more comfortable letting Who decide.

[XScorpion]

MME, who would you vote for if Who and I were currently dead?

[XScorpion]

Fine then.
VOTE: Trine.