Mini 1525: Tales of The Abyss Mafia GAME OVER!

[pitoli]

/aggressively hums opening

[pitoli]

No, I didn't like that test either, Kaze.

[pitoli]

Kaze is so town because he's early aggressive omgz

Yes, I am aware of my meta.

And I didn't like this. Why not let Orci explain why you're town instead of running to the meta assumption?

[pitoli]

No, I didn't like that test either, Kaze.

Why not?

Because it's totally possible someone wouldn't have thought "blue townie" was a literal description of the PM sitting in their inbox. I for one thought you were speaking figuratively so it's weird to me that you would jump on that and assume scum would try to be "in" on a role PM that could be easily verified by the OP.

And I didn't like this. Why not let Orci explain why you're town instead of running to the meta assumption?

That was to fferybork

Mmm yeah that's m'bad.

I am not surprised to see hedginess from a newbie. The part I don't like, however, is that Fuzzylogic seems to be repeating "you are observing X about me, and saying X is scummy. however, town can also do X" and yeah zzzzzzz

[pitoli]

Because it's totally possible someone wouldn't have thought "blue townie" was a literal description of the PM sitting in their inbox. I for one thought you were speaking figuratively so it's weird to me that you would jump on that and assume scum would try to be "in" on a role PM that could be easily verified by the OP.

How is the role PM verified by the OP? I don't see any example role PMs, do you?

Fair enough. I remembered seeing the town wincon and for some reason assumed the rest was there. But still, you don't think it's a possibility that Fuzzy was not taking you at face value when you said "blue"?

[pitoli]

I do post numbers and commentary as town sometimes, too, but it's because sometimes I'm feeling lazy or I just don't have the time to do it right.

I didn't have the time tonight, but I thought these ISOs paint a very clear picture and I don't think some of this player list will do the research themselves if all they get are links.

As far as my alignment, to the extent I'm capable of obvtowning, this game is already an example of what obvtown ffery looks like.

I don't always get thoroughly engrossed in some question or another in a game when I'm town. But, when I do, the conviction and the pure excitement of working through a puzzle is something I can't begin to emulate as scum.

I found myself nodding along to this post in agreement, maybe because we just wrapped up that one game. Still, I would say that's a pretty big meta gap and am surprised you don't think you've bridged it at all.

[pitoli]

Kaze is so town because he's early aggressive omgz

Yes, I am aware of my meta.

And I didn't like this. Why not let Orci explain why you're town instead of running to the meta assumption?

if you didn't like this, how did you feel about ffery early on? see the first past of this post for what I mean.

Are you suggesting because I was annoyed at Kaze I should also have been annoyed at Ffery? Can you clarify your question, sorry... I don't see them as quite parallel instances

Jumping straight into meta is just something ffery does, everybody expects her to do it, and especially if she's town then it makes sense - she thinks she's found something and wants to share it. I guess I didn't think about it from the angle of needing to wait for a response from FuzzyLogic. Then again I also don't really think Fuzzy is scum at this point, so I wasn't dying to hear a reaction from him.

When I misunderstood and thought Kaze was responding to Orci it seemed really really fishy because I thought he was preemptively answering a question about someone's read on him. Scum will do that sometimes, to direct conversation or derail attention from themselves. But it's moot because he wasn't doing that, I was just imagining things (wanting him to be scum probably lol)

At least you and I are on the same page about his vote being poor though.

[pitoli]

it's late and my brain is not working. The reason I don't feel great about comparing the two things:

ffery's answering for fuzzylogic serves to protect fuzzylogic
kaze's answering for orci (that didn't even friggin happen) serves to protect himself

Anyways to answer your original question, early on I liked Ffery's thoughts on why the "blue" test was bad because I had the exact same thoughts. Same thoughts as me = same alignment as me? Good enough for me right now. but who knows, her other head could come here and bork things up (sorry not sorry.)

I was going to call Kaze scum before since I had a bad knee-jerk reaction to his test, but I think I'm kind of cooling on that idea and I'm hoping he shows signs of listening to reason soon.

okay really sleep now.

[pitoli]

Hi, Ffery who's you're partner?

i know this was a joke (probably) but you were voting fuzzy here?

I thought the same thing originally, but I think Mara meant hydra partner not scum partner

[pitoli]

I'm not understanding the ProHawk votes

[pitoli]

Vote him; you'll find out soon enough.

Still waiting to be enlightened. Were you expecting the wagon?

I kinda like Tammy but it's more of a gut thing

[pitoli]

You could have really stopped after one joke about guts lol

[pitoli]

Kaze

Your answers feels kinda like scum trying to defend another scum buddies... Why should I not believe this is what happening
Please explain your scum read on Pit..

- Because I'm not scum.

- You'll hear all about it when pitoli responds to me.

Yeah except you've left me nothing to respond to? No case no nothing, only little hints here and there that you didn't agree with the chunk of players town reading me.

Let's play, Kaze~

[pitoli]

^ When I played with Scum-Kaze he was very conscientious of addressing stuff like that and in general played a pretty clean game, always providing a rationale for voting with cases and such. Then again that was his first game on site, so I don't really know if I'd expect that now.

[pitoli]

Actually I wouldn't know, though I'd like to think I wouldn't be as horrible as I was in BSG. Besides one game I was in briefly before a siteflake, I haven't rolled scum since

[pitoli]

I haven't read past 357 so my comments might seem dumb, but I'm going to go through stuff after these questions.

Why didn't you RVS vote?

For this game I thought I'd try not participating in RVS voting. I always feel particularly ineffectual during RVS and feel pressured to vote when I don't want to. Anyways, we got out of RVS just fine without my vote, so w/e.

How do you feel about fuzzy now that he's played a bit more this game?

I sorted him town early but now he's swayed more null. I do feel like he's quieted a lot and (if scum) is content to let the more experienced players talk over him so he can fade into the woodwork.

What was with the "I wanted him to be scum"(referring to me) comment in 115?

You've never convinced yourself you were seeing something that simply wasn't there/didn't happen because you wanted to catch scum early? That's what I think happened when I misinterpreted some early comments of yours.

Do you have any actual reads?

Yes, mostly townreads at the moment. Deacon Blues, Prohawk, Mac, and now you are up there. I'll get back to you when I've read more of the thread.

Why aren't you scumhunting?

I'm very broken up inside that you don't think this looks like scumhunting.

[pitoli]

VOTE: Fuzzy logic

[pitoli]

Pitoli, given what's on this page, where you placed your vote surprises me a little.

What are your other reads?

Only just skimmed, have yet to do ISOs, but I'm also worried about Nacho and Rufflig. I was paranoid of Orc too but since I'm believing this is town-Kaze more and more I'm putting that aside for now.

Fuzzy asks a lot of questions that don't seem to really go anywhere, and he seems to be asking them broadly and indiscriminately... I usually expect town to have a little more focus. This is the type of thing that I can imagine newbie scum doing while they don't know where to push. It actually reminded me of the BSG game where several people accused me (correctly) of hiding behind the "I'm-a-newbie wall" a little too often to feel genuine, that is the general feeling I am getting here. It bothers me (it REALLY REALLY bothers me) that almost every post he feels the need to say "I'm not sure" or "I guess ____ could be ____", it's like a weird hedgy disclaimer that might make it easier for him to retreat behind his stated opinions.

[pitoli]

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

Hmmm. That's not quite the response I was expecting. Not sure I should consider you less scum for it...

Fuzzy if you don't mind can you explain your quick turnaround on your Kaze?

[pitoli]

The reason for my turn around for both Kaze and Orcinus is Kaze's claim. I tend to believe him.

One reason is the time and circumstance of the claim. Yes scum could claim but I find it very unlikely they would do it in the way he did and the time he did, This makes me believe he is the town stalker. I could be wrong but I would be very very surpprised if he flipped scum. I am 95% sure both are townies

The other reason is the way he answers the question when asked why he believed Orcinus was town. He basically said because he is. I believe this was bc he couldnt think of a reason and didnt want to claim. He knew Orcinus was town but didnt know how to express that.

Before the claim you had Kaze as your leading scum read according to your ISO >> so you didn't consider any scenarios in which Kaze could be fakeclaiming? Scum-Kaze knows Orc's alignment after all. It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that Kaze/Orc's flavor characters are really linked somehow

Your switch looks off to me.

I still feel in the dark about Tammy/Rufflig so I'm off to read their ISOs now.

[pitoli]

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

Scum slip?

How so?

[pitoli]

Now, read it again. Better?

Syntax: More than just a good idea.

I'm having trouble believing you're serious.

Like, I've seen some pretty hard straw-grasping in my day, but goodness gracious...

Ever-so-cheeky Kaze is a town Kaze. I'm feeling good about this read now.

[pitoli]

UNVOTE:

[pitoli]

What the hell did I just read

[pitoli]

Tammy is still town but I'm experiencing some cogdis with respect to Rufflig so I don't think I want to vote him yet.

VOTE: Nachomamma

[pitoli]

That's okay. I really just want to know why you voted me because I didn't feel any conviction behind it.

[pitoli]

Like I understand the reservations people have towards me and I even like Mac's push on me but you idk what is going on

[pitoli]

That's okay. I really just want to know why you voted me because I didn't feel any conviction behind it.

oh there isn't conviction behind it
why did you vote me instead of ask me why?

Because omgus can get you places? "There isn't conviction behind it" is not really the explanation I was looking for, btw

[pitoli]

P-edit: be patient >> I am typing and reading the thread from a phone and neither of these things are fun

[pitoli]

That's okay. I really just want to know why you voted me because I didn't feel any conviction behind it.

oh there isn't conviction behind it
why did you vote me instead of ask me why?

instead of ask me why i voted you :/

Sorry? What explanation were you expecting?

Sigh. Why did you vote me?
If there was no conviction behind it, why bother

[pitoli]

Ugh only the last quote is supposed to be there. Proof that I suck at phoneposting

[pitoli]

Now who's being underwhelming :/

[pitoli]

I'm more confused than I was before??

[pitoli]

Do you actually think I'm scum Nacho??

[pitoli]

Then take your bloody momentum somewhere else

[pitoli]

Because it will be more useful elsewhere

The only thing you're getting out of this right now is trolling me

P-edit: well this has been another productive 4am venture gnight

[pitoli]

Oh good, my townreads blocing without me ):

My vote on Nacho was basically to try to force some interaction with him, since what he was doing didn't look like town and I wanted to get more out of him. Omgus is one of those things that people rarely ignore and I wanted to see what peoples' reactions would be.

The way Nacho is flipping about makes me think he could be scum pretending he has reads to sort out. The momentum comment derided me out.

[pitoli]

That's **weirded** me out

[pitoli]

Is the push on Myko based more on his reads or the reaction to Mara's weird exit?

[pitoli]

Also if the cop wants to investigate me I am fine with that. I welcome it.

pitoli, what do you think?[/quote]
Why ask me specifically?

During one my recent town games I said the same thing as a joke, people took it as a "godfather tell" and it went very badly.

I know I keep waffling back and forth on Fuzzy but for now I don't want to vote him.

[pitoli]

Oh good, my townreads blocing without me ):

My vote on Nacho was basically to try to force some interaction with him, since what he was doing didn't look like town and I wanted to get more out of him. Omgus is one of those things that people rarely ignore and I wanted to see what peoples' reactions would be.

The way Nacho is flipping about makes me think he could be scum pretending he has reads to sort out. The momentum comment derided me out.

You haven't seen me flip out, have you?

Not flipping out, flipping votes.

[pitoli]

Lol. You suck, you really suck

[pitoli]

Is that pretty much the cherry on top for your Fuzzy case then?

[pitoli]

Pitoli town based on interactions and a level of ballsiness required to be coming from pitoli scum that I don't think she possesses.
Marangal meltdown makes myko town, don't really give a shit what he posts although moving away from the norm in a significant way is something that comes from myko town more often than myko scum.
Tammy deacon town.
MafiaSSK gets two points based on what I assume scumbuddies would have filled him in on. If scumteam is prohawk/gif though, maybe not. Otherwise would prefer not to kill him based on townreads elsewhere (head can be cut off today).
Ruffling trust of me is weird and I am suspicious as all hell, but not sure he is best flip for today. Look into again later.
Prohawk still scummy. Conviction in response to me was good, follow up responses were not. Current line on ruffling is concerning if ruffling town.
Mac town.
Fuzzy most likely town, although I have paranoid flashes now and then.
Kaze also most likely town although I have similar paranoid flashes on him.
Minami good bet for scum.

Does scum-Nacho typically provide so many town reads?

[pitoli]

You basically answered your own question Fuzzy

[pitoli]

i had a dreamlast nifht cabd shot me

WHAT IS LIFE

Mod, make it happen!

[pitoli]

you're making me want to lynch you again.

[pitoli]

seriously frustrated by this. I haven't made any good headway on scumcases and yet Fuzzy is the one I keep coming back to, the one whose posts most bother me, only as people have already said adnauseum - is he scum or just awkward? but either way i'm distracted and wasting a lot of time pivoting just by this one point.

i
d
k

[pitoli]

why bc I said you could be lynch candidate... I hope you have a good reason.

not because you said I could be lynch candidate. Mac has been trying to push my lynch most of today and I think he's town.

no, not that. but because once again everything coming out of your mouth looks hedgy

[pitoli]

Fuzzy: it's like you're speaking a different language where you don't know how to put together sentences that mean anything has more than a 50% chance of happening.

p-edit: lynchbait isn't always town!

[pitoli]

seriously frustrated by this. I haven't made any good headway on scumcases and yet Fuzzy is the one I keep coming back to, the one whose posts most bother me, only as people have already said adnauseum - is he scum or just awkward? but either way i'm distracted and wasting a lot of time pivoting just by this one point.

i
d
k

so you have one scumread, and that's fuzzy? whom I would consider mislynch bait at the moment.

more like I have zero strong scumreads at the moment and I don't know which thread to follow because I keep getting tangled up in the mess that is Fuzzylogic >>

[pitoli]

@Fuzzy: How sure are you about anything in this game

totally nonsarcastic question

[pitoli]

Going to bed and resetting tomorrow ><

[pitoli]

Nobody wants to vote Nacho with me? ):

I do not like the push on SSK. His vote on Rufflig was bad yes but I'm at a loss to why scum-SSK wouldn't "try harder" to feign a legitimate push.

[pitoli]

I'm also kind of bemused that the votes are still so spread out, did the town bloc fail to launch or something >>

[pitoli]

Nobody wants to vote Nacho with me? ):

I do not like the push on SSK. His vote on Rufflig was bad yes but I'm at a loss to why scum-SSK wouldn't "try harder" to feign a legitimate push.

why should I vote nacho?

Because he's creeping me out.

[pitoli]

That lynch was bad and you should all feel bad.

[pitoli]

So is MafiaSSK's flip confirming Prohawk or was he just a day target or something??

[pitoli]

What about the nightkill confused you? I thought FferyBork was pretty town, though I had some paranoia towards the end of the day.

[pitoli]

Not really, it would make me happy to have more confirmed.

[pitoli]

Right, so where is scum according to Pitoli?

Rufflig and Fuzzy for now? Will need to reread since I've cooled on the idea of Nacho-scum a bit.

[pitoli]

Although, Mylo calling me town so easily has me a little worried >>

Right, so where is scum according to Pitoli?

And you?

[pitoli]

Town

Nacho
Mac
Kaze
Orcinus
--------------------------
Myko
Proawk

The reaction to the lynch and than the flip itself really makes me think that these two are town
-------------------------------------
Tammy
Pit

Ruff
No Hana

I am not going to sit back and say this was a good lynch but i feel there was good info that came out of it

what good info is that pray tell

[pitoli]

what good info is that pray tell

The wagon was absolutely scum-driven.

MafiaSSK (7): orcinus_theoriginal, TheFuzzylogic99, Mac, Nachomamma8,

The Rufflig

, Minami no Hana, Kazekirimaru (LYNCH)

So who's behind the wheel? Rufflig jumped on arguably after the momentum had been going that way already...

Lynchbait: MafiaSSK, Fuzzy? I thought Minami was possibly at the beginning of the Day

[pitoli]

Either way I would say Pro-Hawk is town

I tend to agree. The number of town is starting to make me uneasy, though.

I feel like you're parroting what a number of players have already said.
Who's town?

[pitoli]

See, why do I like you so much better when you're calling me scum >>

[pitoli]

Cannot stress enough how much scum pitoli is. She has just came in here discrediting the wagon whilst she did

NOTHING

to stop it or even attempt to stop it. SCUM.

Not only that, but she actually offhandedly encouraged it.

p-edit: lynchbait isn't always town!

Lynchbait: MafiaSSK, Fuzzy? I thought Minami was possibly at the beginning of the Day

I realize the lynchbait /= town comment was re: Fuzzy, but if she honestly thought that then I don't see why she felt that MafiaSSK was such a bad lynch if he was indeed lynchbait.

MafiaSSK was a bad lynch because of how many votes were thrown on a day before deadline with "meh, good compromise" as essentially the only explanation. And that should have been obvious to anyone. I don't know why you need me to point it out.

[pitoli]

TOWN

Kazekirimaru
orcinus_theoriginal
Tammy
Nachomamma8 - like his posts today, but it's all gut.

NULL

Minami no Hana - engaging softly and not sure too much is going on here, but that doesn't signal scum to me necessarily.
ProHawk
Mykonian - like his posts but paranoia of what might be whiteknighting me? he's been hard defending me since he entered the game.
Mac - he's slid from the townpile. ISO would suggest he did not push me as hard yesterday as he wants you to believe. Today his entrance was bad - instead of owning up to the fact that his vote yesterday was shitty, he finds a way to blame me. Cool.

SCUM

TheFuzzylogic99 - still weird, do not want him around at LYLO.
The Rufflig - this is a really gut feeling based on how so many people found him scummy yesterday but somehow ended up on the opposing lynch. Thinking one or maybe two partners helped with wagon resistance??


VOTE: Rufflig Let's see where the momentum takes us

[pitoli]

Bad wording. Just meant that by voting me, it felt like he was trying to shift focus off the wagon.

[pitoli]

See, most townies I've seen, when they have been part of a mislynch, there's usually a moment the next day where they might pause to collect their bearings or something of that nature, or even seem mildly apologetic (though the apologetic part can be easy to fake as scum). The mislynch acts like a shakeup. If a townie was wrong about a particular read, it's reason enough to reconsider other players thought to be scum. Mac is no longer obvtown for me because I didn't sense this pause at all. If he is scum, this is a rather clever way of faking a confirmation bias towards me.

[pitoli]

Once again I find myself creeping towards a pretty self-centered game and it is really fucking annoying...

[pitoli]

See, most townies I've seen, when they have been part of a mislynch, there's usually a moment the next day where they might pause to collect their bearings or something of that nature, or even seem mildly apologetic (though the apologetic part can be easy to fake as scum). The mislynch acts like a shakeup. If a townie was wrong about a particular read, it's reason enough to reconsider other players thought to be scum. Mac is no longer obvtown for me because I didn't sense this pause at all. If he is scum, this is a rather clever way of faking a confirmation bias towards me.

I did t pause either.

Maybe, but there are other things to suggest you're town. My obvtownread on Mac was based mostly on how he was approaching reading me and others.

[pitoli]

ugh

[pitoli]

UNVOTE:

[pitoli]

I did not claim anything.
But I believe both Kaze and Minami right now.

Yeah this game is getting crowded.

[pitoli]

Hello?

[pitoli]

Building paranoia because since pretty early on he's reinforced the idea that I should be in everybody's townpile; I'm afraid he's scum trying to build a stockpile of relational tells between us.
I've been considering going back and reviewing Micro252 we played together, he was a good deal more aggressive towards me, but perhaps that's because it was our first time encountering each other.

[pitoli]

Also, yeah because the "godfather tell" shitty joke I should have never made in that game. But I can't remember at the moment if he started tunneling me before or after that moment.

[pitoli]

Where is your read on him right now?

[pitoli]

O___O
why are you asking someone you aren't sure is town who to vig?
Probably Fuzzy if you ask me, then Myko.

[pitoli]

Mara's replace out is a major pull for town-Myko, I think.

[pitoli]

Between the last four, Fuzzy. I remember sorting Tammy as town pretty early as I liked almost everything she was posting, but I do need to revisit the read. I can't narrow it down further particularly re: Prohawk and Mac, I haven't been able to reread the game closely while applying the implications of Minami's claim.

[pitoli]

do not!!

[pitoli]

Orci normally I would say you should follow your heart but in this case no

[pitoli]

Why do I feel like this is all a reaction test and I'm the one who's going to have a bullet in my head in a few minutes

[pitoli]

Nacho is scummier to you than Myko? hmm

p-edit: that information is for me to know

[pitoli]

Then what did you think about Myko talking about the night kill?

[pitoli]

do not!!

I also don't understand why I was so scummy yesterday and now I'm town enough to be in your top townreads :/

You seem more aggressive/willing to rock the boat today, which is more consistent with the idea I have of you.

What can I say, I've seen the light

[pitoli]

I think that Necromancer is a reviver . Makes sense since in the series Jade was secretly bringing soldiers back to life.


VOTE: Pit

Merry Christmas to you too.

[pitoli]

@ The Original

I know that You are Asch the Bloody. It was pretty easy to figure out. The vig role does not make 100 % sense but from what I learned from deathnote the game sometimes is not always what it seems . There were a bunch of oddly placed PR in that game.. . I prefer you do not kill me however if you do than it will confirm my some of my reads so it wont be a total useless death. I think Pit would be the best choice. It would clarify the field as well as he the scummiest at the moment.

@ No Hana
Are you making a cop claim

Maybe I am wrong... It seems to be the most likely sense you claimed stalker.

In the mythos it says that Natalia loved Ascch but he did not love her back. Also that Natalia was heavily dependent on him. All this made me strongly believe that Orcina was Asch. Like i said i could be wrong

Lol what

[pitoli]

Like a scavenger ish type role?

[pitoli]

Need to check if fruit vendors can be anti town...

[pitoli]

Need to check if fruit vendors can be anti town...

this should not be your line of thinking

Why not? It's a double checking sort of thing for a role that essentially exists to confirm itself - its utility isn't town or scum inherently.

I don't think scum fruit vendors are completely unheard of, but the claim probably does help the town a little; every person with a confirmable role makes it easier for us to figure out the setup.

[pitoli]

I'm pretty much mod confirmed to be a title vendor so why would the question be is she a title vendor?

This, Orci.

[pitoli]

Need for a reset is looking more and more urgent

[pitoli]

I'm for the massclaim at this point.

I'm a little hesitant.

[pitoli]

Wait, Myko isn't your top scum read anymore?

[pitoli]

Fine, fine. Did you want me to claim now or are you waiting for anybody else?

[pitoli]

I'm Mieu, Hider, most annoying character in the game.

Guess who I hid behind last night?

[pitoli]

Me voting him at the end of day wouldn't have been obvious enough? Saying that he creeped me out, etc. etc.

[pitoli]

I'm just going to continue Hiding until I can PoE for the win btw

[pitoli]

They copped Rufflig. Yeah, doubt setting in. I guess the 1shots make it slightly more likely to exist, but ehhhhh

[pitoli]

Having a false result for a 1-shot is pretty punishing... notwithstanding other 1-shots that might exist (thinking no)

[pitoli]

Orci, do you have flavor on Kaze in your role PM?

[pitoli]

Wait, Myko isn't your top scum read anymore?

Kaze-senpai please notice me

[pitoli]

I'm not familiar with 3+ player hoods but I've been told site meta currently has at least 1 scum in there

[pitoli]

Out your neighborhood.

We can scumhunt in there.

Implying that Fuzzy is not the scum we're looking for??

[pitoli]

[quote="In post 1557, Kazekirimaru]The neighborhood has to be the lynchpool today.[/quote]

All fine and good with the hood being outed, but this statement makes me

really

uncomfortable.

[pitoli]

Loyalty to a bunch of neighbors whose alignments you don't know?

What the fuck ACTUALLY

[pitoli]

But um.... scum-Fuzzy zero reasons to lie about being in a neighborhood....

[pitoli]

*has zero reasons

[pitoli]

@ Kaze
Funny you act like you know what we talked about in the QT. To be honest it was brought up in the QT. WE had quite a discussion about it. You will read it once the game is over and the QT is open. Anyways I do not feel that either party was lying. Both seem very genuine. From the convos which is quite legnthy I do not feel that they are scum. I do not feel my loyalty is misplaced

such exclusive
very neighborhood

[pitoli]

@ Kaze
Funny you act like you know what we talked about in the QT. To be honest it was brought up in the QT. WE had quite a discussion about it. You will read it once the game is over and the QT is open. Anyways I do not feel that either party was lying. Both seem very genuine. From the convos which is quite legnthy I do not feel that they are scum. I do not feel my loyalty is misplaced

such exclusive
very neighborhood

[pitoli]

I'm just going to come back to this tomorrow.

[pitoli]

Orci, do you want my claim now or later?

How did we miss this.

[pitoli]

I don't know. Orci responded that he wanted Nacho's claim first and popcorn from there.
I see no reason to push Fuzzy on his neighborhood. We are mass claiming, so it will all come out. I truly doubt he fibbed about a neighborhood. That would be a terrible blunder that would be easily noticed by the end of mass claim.

Gun to your head, who should Orc shoot?

[pitoli]

Was out all day, reading up now

[pitoli]

fucking shit Orc if you bombed Nacho idek

[pitoli]

Wait, thinking.

Similar to what people were saying about Nacho bussing me as scum, is it possible that Rufflig is doing that with Minami?

[pitoli]

Mac didn't claim his role in the neighborhood? Or is he VT?

[pitoli]

Not VT but rather a neighbor with no additional powers

[pitoli]

So is the neighborhood designated Dark Wings or is that something you're assuming Fuzzy

[pitoli]

Godfather AND miller with only a 1-shot investigation known so far? >>

[pitoli]

Prohawk, you have a townread on Tammy right? Can you explain to me which aspects of her towngame you're seeing? My read on her has gone very stale, more influenced by the general consensus than anything.

Fuzzy suddenly seems improved to me, I sense him trying to whittle the game down starting from his neighborhood. Town? Guh.

[pitoli]

I think I want to lynch Minami/Rufflig at the moment

[pitoli]

Yes, but I dont remember him saying if he had a super duper town read on you.

Also I don't think he likes me

[pitoli]

So is the neighborhood designated Dark Wings or is that something you're assuming Fuzzy

wait

why does it matter to you?

Just want to clarify. Fuzzy was wrong in assuming Orc was Asch the Bloody, wasn't he?

[pitoli]

To better state: what good is it to know whether or not all the members of the neighborhood are related flavour-wise? What is a townie to do with that information?

It's to keep in mind when Mac comes back to the thread.
Why, what do you think scum-Pitoli would like to do with that information?

[pitoli]

Tammy, what about the mod-confirmed role makes you town? Like you really don't think town can consider the possibility of a scum title vendor?

[pitoli]

Honestly Tammy please take your self-righteous spiel somewhere else. -____- those sorts of things don't typically appeal to me as town.

@Kaze: how do you expect to solve anything without obtaining information first? You make it sound like I was role fishing or something of that nature and that really fucking annoys me

[pitoli]

Honestly, that's probably my fault for being lazy and not reading carefully. Prohawk happened to state an explicit townread on you more recently 1724, and that's what I was going off since I trust him as town right now.

[pitoli]

And to answer your question Pitoli, I really like Tammy's thought process with the game and her posts. I feel like she is generally feeling things out and trying to put the pieces together. I don't feel like she is trying to manipulate the thread. And if she were a scum title-vendor, why title town?

Because the titled townie might look upon them more favorably? Because titling a scumpartner would look really shitty if either of them flipped? Is it really that hard to think of possible scum utilities for this?

I am not saying she's scum, I just don't think her alignment can be confirmed the way that her role effect can. This questioning is making me feel like a crazy person because apparently no one else has entertained this??

p-edit: Rufflig most likely. I will get back to you after tomorrow's reread.

[pitoli]

And I suppose at post-game you'll just berate me about how shitty and illogical my playing was... totally looking forward to that yep.

G'night.

[pitoli]

I think I want to lynch Minami/Rufflig at the moment

Then put a vote on one of them?

Soon.

Yes, but I dont remember him saying if he had a super duper town read on you.

Also I don't think he likes me

Why aren't you trying to convince me you're town then?

Well >> I am in my own way. If it helps, I'm not a straight up Hider, though I still did hide behind you last night.

[pitoli]

You also know that I adore you, so don't paint me a hater when I'm not.

I hope this post wasn't addressed to me.

[pitoli]

Why did you claim Hider during a massclaim when that wasn't your real role? What is your real role?

I'm actually a "Cowardly JOAT". I don't wish to disclose my other abilities.

I thought that if I claimed Hider, I could get scum to give up on targeting me long enough so I could use said other abilities.

[pitoli]

You also know that I adore you, so don't paint me a hater when I'm not.

I hope this post wasn't addressed to me.

It was.

WELL THEN

if your idea of adoration is fucking getting the person trying to clear you lynched. then yes!

but this is good to know Nacho, I will take small comfort in this from the grave.

[pitoli]

I only checked the thread because I got up in the middle of the night to pee lol. If you're going to say something say it quick kbai

[pitoli]

Where in the game rules does it say there can be only one JOAT?

[pitoli]

It was mainly the distinction "Cowardly JOAT" that made me think, even before the game started, that there was a possibility of more than one JOAT.

[pitoli]

And Mac - as long as we're positing that there can only be ONE of any particular role in this theme game, why are there TWO vanilla neighbor claims?

[pitoli]

have you ever played in a game where town has had two roles with multiple powers?

pedit what does the cowardly have to do with your role? I think you need to full claim

I'm not going to full claim, it's definitely not in our best interests for scum to know what my remaining actions are.

But come the fuck on, Mieu was hiding Night 1, isn't that cowardly enough for you already?

[pitoli]

And Mac - as long as we're positing that there can only be ONE of any particular role in this theme game, why are there TWO vanilla neighbor claims?

now you're just being ridiculous because I'm not saying that at all and I'm not going to waste my time addressing this.

Okay, so I'm scum AND ridiculous now? Progress!

[pitoli]

You're getting there!

If two people claimed cop in a game, would your first reaction honestly be "ooo they could both be town!"

No, but Minami and I haven't claimed the same thing because our abilities are CLEARLY DIFFERENT WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND
So when they claimed I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[pitoli]

Hey pit
"JoaT", "Jack of all trades", or "Jack-of-all-trades"?

Did I fucking stutter the first time?

[pitoli]

YOU ARE CLAIMING A HIDING ROLE DURING NIGHT ONE, AND THEY HAVE CLAIMED COP NIGHT ONE. HOW ARE THEY ANY DIFFERENT

I would see that as a balance issue if it was a straight up Cop and Hider, that would be weird to see. But as a 1-shot investigation each? Maybe this is just my inexperience talking.

[pitoli]

Aw I wanted you to spell it out for me again

I believe pity's claim. I'll elaborate on it later.
For now, lets just say that my full role name is "Town-aligned

fonic

JOAT."

And what's your super special reason for not claiming in full?

[pitoli]

You also know that I adore you, so don't paint me a hater when I'm not.

I hope this post wasn't addressed to me.

It was.

WELL THEN

if your idea of adoration is fucking getting the person trying to clear you lynched. then yes!

but this is good to know Nacho, I will take small comfort in this from the grave.

No I like you as a person but you're scum

You think I would pull this out of my ass as scum?!

[pitoli]

YOU ARE CLAIMING A HIDING ROLE DURING NIGHT ONE, AND THEY HAVE CLAIMED COP NIGHT ONE. HOW ARE THEY ANY DIFFERENT

I would see that as a balance issue if it was a straight up Cop and Hider, that would be weird to see. But as a 1-shot investigation each? Maybe this is just my inexperience talking.

come on pitoli. we have a role which confirmed orci as town, which in turn confirmed Kaze as town and you think we have a further two roles which can confirm more people?

Fine, fine. I fucked up and should have CC'd then and there, sorry.

That being said, what do you think of Minami townreading me this entire game?

[pitoli]

What exactly are you pulling out of your ass that isn't fakeable?

NACHO. The point I was trying to emphasize was, do you think

I personally

am capable of faking these things as scum? Earlier in this game, when you had me as a townread, you cited that certain things I said were "ballsy" or too ballsy to be scum. I usually agree when people give assessments like this, because I'm aware my baseline play is very timid.

I'm asking you consider if a ridiculously patchy Hider-turned-JOAT not-even-fullclaim is consistent with what you know about me as a player. If the answer is yes - totally consistent! - wow then I must have acquired some scum-balls since that time.

[pitoli]

Sakura, did you believe my Hider claim?

[pitoli]

Screw you guys the sun's coming up here and I keep nodding off

[pitoli]

Pitoli, did you ever explain why you hid behind me N1? You didn't think there was a chance I could die or something?

There were people way townier than you, and all good players. I didn't even consider that you might be a N1 kill.

[pitoli]

FUZZY YOU FUCKING LYNCHED MY CLEAR

[pitoli]

I literally banged my head on the keyboard when I saw this

[pitoli]

Maybe you should have clarified what my role was before you voted for the lose

[pitoli]

If someone flips town, you SHOULD be able to take their word for everything they said.

You are correct that the mod flip on them was Cowardly JOAT, however if you read the posts I quoted, Pitoli claimed that she hid behind Nacho. And later clarified that they were a JOAT, but didn't want to reveal the

other

ability. As town, she shouldn't have lied about it, and therefore confirmed Nacho as town.

Re this since I feel like I owe town an apology for being the major distraction Day 2:

I claimed Hider as a gambit

knowing

that people would probably find it incredibly scummy and run me up for a lynch. When that happened my plan was to claim JOAT but not reveal my other ability (all the while suggesting that the remaining abilities I had were powerful). I wanted scum to be scared of me and try to target me for the night kill, whereupon I would use my crazy commuting powers LIKE WOW GENIUS

I guess that worked out for me huh

[pitoli]

I never stopped believing in Nacho <3