Micro 269: See Nine Minus Minus (Game Over!)

[TierShift]

VOTE: bulbazak

[TierShift]

Vote Stuffed Crust

This game is not going over 100 pages like the last one.

i have varsoon leashed bulba, don't you worry!

Why isnt Varsoon spamming yet?

Why are you asking an answered question? Yeah you are trying to create confusion, scumdar is pinging you scum!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cherry

P-edit: Super big fos bulbazak for asking the obvious question for towncred!

[TierShift]

To be fair, Cherry did miss things quite often in the previous game, including me putting Varsoon at L-1.

Hardcore defending while using 'to be fair' to relate. Scumteam found p1 gg

You could always vote your scum buddy, Tier.

Yunovotecherry

[TierShift]

Liar it was the first

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Wow such reasoning

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So sheeping

Wow

[TierShift]

ABSURD I SAY

maybe he was hinting at the sheeping? AND LYING OMG
but seriously, your posts feel a tad faked.

[TierShift]

Do my what

[TierShift]

Lol bb I actually misread that 1 line post of yours(makes us even)
Why do my posts seem faked?

And fu, there is not much hate, just one post that gives two reasons, that's all it is, idg what you want me to explain.

[TierShift]

I don't like indulgences, no buy.

[TierShift]

How about you start playing?

[TierShift]

I read the game, I'm with Titus on this one.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bbmolla

[TierShift]

Nope I'm pretty new to online mafia and about that game, I was gonna look into that later. Is the playerlist very much the same as here?

[TierShift]

Seriously though why isn't Obscurity dead yet

Why do you want him dead?

Tiershift, the players are almost identical with a few exceptions (you and obscurity being a couple). It's a mini normal (more players). Just a heads up, Day 1 broke the record for the longest day 1 in mafia scum history.

Ok...I don't have that much time on my hands...now I get the references though. I've been searching for the game but can't find it, link please?

[TierShift]

I see 1 rvs 1 annoying bs post

But there is a definite will to not interact. Some more votes might fix that?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: obscurity

P-edit: thx titus

[TierShift]

why is tiershift not picking up votes? obscurity could too, but he is lacking in effort and seems easy. whereas tiershift has 15 posts which are very surface level and don't probe any further, plus it's the second time he's hopped onto a cheap vote and pegged it down as "sheeping" which I don't like.

Vote: TierShift

Yes my posts are very surface-level, most of them have been made in RVS. You are implying these posts haven't been helpful, which I don't agree with (if that isn't your first point you should explain further). They have got BB talking, at least.

As for the sheeping, the first one (on BB) was to get some further reaction out of him, while the second (obscurity) is for one looking to disengage. If he would actually respond I'd be sooo happy. Furthermore, idg why sheeping in RVS is wrong.

How can you really complain about my posts being thin while you yourself have posted:
1. Saying you don't do RVS and the complaining when people tell you to vote
2. Some weird rvs vote analysis
3. This vote on me
4. Complaints about bulbazak.
You might wanna go more in-depth yourself?

[TierShift]

they go more in depth than 4 simple points like you've tried to paint it as. for example, i have explained my vote on you, and explained why I'm unhappy with bulba right now. but this deflection has been noted, because it's pretty obvious my posts aren't just one liners.

sheeping is not bad per se, but explain your townreads on the guys you sheeped? because it's basically hiding behind whoever you're sheeping and not doing much else. it's like you're trying to absolve yourself of blame if the people you vote flip town.

Where did I say your posts are oneliners? I was saying that I had contributed to the game

at least

as much as you did, do you disagree with that?

Why do I need townreads on players I sheep in 1. RVS 2. when I vote for a scummy player?
Also I'm not hiding behind no one and I would take as much responsability wagoning as starting a wagon.

[TierShift]

bb, even though there will probably no negative consequences because of your post, I don't see at all why you would post that.

Obscurity, acting scummy on purpose is not gonna get anyone of your back nor is it gonna help this game. Why are you acting this way?

[TierShift]

Stuffed crust you are freaking me out. First your disengaging, then your weird wagon analysis, then the interaction with bulba that doesn't feel right and now the easy vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: stuffed crust

[TierShift]

Well you said you don't do rvs. Doesn't give you a right not to post at all during RVS. The wagon analysis is in 69 and 131 and I really think it's BS.

Not buying the hydra crap. If you are not on the same level you should get there by pm.
P-edit cherry unvoted l-2 if im correct

[TierShift]

PoE and Statistics.
I've never been town in game where it has happened.
There's always at least one scum in the first two wagons, especially if they get pushed to L-2 or L-1.
It's too easy. In RVS, no one will be critical when you get a wagon rolling. All of the real focus gets put on the last few voters, which is hilarious.
Case in point, HipHopMafia.
I'd rather not see a repeat of those first few days.

-V

This. Do you really believe in it? I think it's weak. You present all of this as facts and general knowledge, supported with one game in which it is true. One game isn't proof and you should know that.

@BBmolla: What makes you think that of FuDuzn? Also, why would you mention that he's a town PR or scum like that? It feels like you're trying to present FuDuzn as a high-risk/high-reward wagon, but I don't see the motivation for doing so.

Now that I'm reading over it, I don't like the BBM wagon at all. There's probably one scum there, given the variety of input and activity.

As for the other scum pool I'm considering, one of Tier, BBM, and Bulba is very likely to be scum as well.

That said, I'm sticking with my other head as far as the voting goes.

Another instance of vote analysis I think is goofy. How does the argument 'there is a variety of input and activity' support the statement 'there is at least onr scum on the wagon'?

I can't see in any post that you think bb is town, especially not in this one.

Do you still think one of me, bb and bulba is scum? You seem to have dropped the suspicion of me and bb, how about bulba?

[TierShift]

One cheap gambit btw but there's no harm in trying

[TierShift]

So you now have 2 pools of scum, one with 4 people in them and 1 with 2. I'm in both pools. Does this mean you are giving the other players a free pass? If you aren't, you are basically just outing possible scum so why the pools?
And does this all mean that if there is just 1 person left in a certain scumpool he is confscum to you?

[TierShift]

what doesn't feel right about our interactions with bulba? and define disengaging.

Well you said you don't do rvs. Doesn't give you a right not to post at all during RVS.

Why don't you two get on the same page, explaining verything twice is annoying as fuck. Even varsoon said he found your interactions with bulba stupid. You are just both accusing each other of disengaging, you are not talking with each other, but talking to yourself. There is no real interaction.

[TierShift]

AND HOLY CRAP THERE ARE VOTE: AND UNVOTE: TAGS?

#MINDBLOWN

Ye discovered the uv one myself sooo proud.

[TierShift]

Stuffed Crust I don't like you calling me out on my two instances of sheeping and then later sheeping one of these wagons. What has changed?

[TierShift]

TierShifts posts seems strange to me, and I get an unnatural feel to how he plays. His 113 and 126 feels overly defensive and his 143 feels very made up, I don't see why he ffels the need to comment on bbmolla in such a generic way, and I don't see what good his question at Obscurity will do, it just feels forced to me.

I didn't realize you wanted a response to that, but, well, here it is.
If someone attacks me, I defend myself. I answer all points being thrown at me, trying to invalidate as many as possible. That's how I roll. It's like what I'm doing now. I don't know what you mean by your comments on 143, I really don't understand what's forced about it and how asking obscurity questions is wrong.

@Tier:

I'm allowed to be a hypocrite. There's also differences in the sheeps you've made and the one I just pulled. If anything, what's important is to discern the nature of a vote/sheep, and call attention to what is problematic in it. In that regard, we're operating on a similar level.

I don't see the difference between our sheeps. Mind explaining?

Even though cherry's vote was bad, I'm sooo tempted to hammer obscurity...(not actually stating intent)

Obscurity why just why are you annoying us like this?

P-edit: agreeing with bulba on fu, obscurity is just playing lynchbait on purpose while fu has gone hiding.

[TierShift]

Dude, BB, not cool...even though I agree with you.

[TierShift]

Next question?

Why are you not putting in any effort and answering questions in a half-assed manner?
Why aren't you giving opinions?

[TierShift]

Why all this speculation about the vig?
There is a 29% chance there is a 1-shot vig and a 5% chance that there is a full vig, if my math is correct.
Are you all saying a 1-shot vig should shoot already?
Are you ready to let an obscurity lynch go on the slim possibility that there is a vig?

I really get the feeling I'm missing something here.

[TierShift]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fu

Sheeping again yay
But in all seriousness, come play fu and give out some reads.

[TierShift]

At this point I'm down to vote Fu, I don't even really think Obscurity is scum anymore (if he could just post like, twice a frequently, he'd be wonderful).

Why don't you think obs is scum anymore?

[TierShift]

His reaction to my vote was initially much more calm, he knew it was early and didn't have to worry about it. Now as time has gone on and he still has two votes on him, from two players who have been fairly inactive and theoretically will not be around to remove their votes, he starts attack said players to make them look bad.

He is honestly afraid of being lynched(generally speaking scum are more afraid of this), so he is projecting suspicion and doubt on to me.probably since he feels I won't be around much to defend myself.

*drops mic*

Okay wait. Your point is that because of the fact that bulba has 2 votes on him, he's thinking he is getting lynched and because of that, he's attacking you? Wow strong logic, why don't you respond to the actual points he brought up, instead of using self-meta to not have to answer them.

You seem out of sorts, your faux pas of referring to an ongoing game is a big part of what I am talking about. Maybe aloof was the wrong choice of words, but you just seem different from other games I have played with you when you were town. And no I don't have many other specifics to cite, just your general vibe you have going this game, I can't shake it.

Mark my words, this BB boy ain't right.

BB is...different. Please add more to this, as the point is fairly stupid as of now.

BB, I'm also having a hard time reading bulba.

[TierShift]

Titus, why so scummy?

I agree with cherry that scum almost never pushes on their townreads (which you say BB is doing). They just don't and you know. Then you misrep what she said willfully and completely?

If I weren't voting Fu, I'd be voting you.

[TierShift]

Tell me where the scum motivation is in lynching people he calls town. Town motivation is get rid of liabilities. Wouldnt you think scum would be like this? They'd be far more likely to just, uhm idk, insist that someone is scum?

Sakura or DP, are you seriously asking my why scum would want to lynch town?

Looks like a misrep to me.

[TierShift]

Tell me where the scum motivation is in lynching people he calls town. Town motivation is get rid of liabilities. Wouldnt you think scum would be like this? They'd be far more likely to just, uhm idk, insist that someone is scum?

Sakura or DP, are you seriously asking my why scum would want to lynch town?

Looks like a misrep to me.

Why does that look like a misrep?

Cherry says that scum don't lynch their townREADS, you ask why they wouldn't wanna lynch town.

I'll do some more in-depth reactions to the last posts soon.

[TierShift]

No one beats varsoon reasoning

[TierShift]

First post by BB that makes sense
Almost done rereading btw

[TierShift]

Fu, your reactions to bulba make sense. But I don't like that the only thing you have done so far out of RVS is responding to bulba instead of taking some initiative and doing things yourself.

Titus, I'm wondering why you cannot see the obvious thing that I am saying, everyone seems to understand it but you.
I do agree with the latter part of 313, even more so after obscurity's latest post.

Cherry, is your 316 saying that Titus is town because of his twisted logic? Doesn't make sense to me.

[TierShift]

Some say an Obscurity lynch won’t provide info, this is wrong, if Obscurity is indeed scum it will give a lot of info regarding the ones who is pushing for a vig kill on Obscurity, in a game were we it is more likely that we don’t got a vig than it is that we do have one.

What you need to remember, though, is that information from a successful lynch is good and all, but that you also really need info from a mislynch, even more so. If we mislynch obscurity we won't be able to make a step forward tomorrow.

Other than that I like your post and I feel the same about 5 or 6/8 reads.

Am I the only one who is annoyed by the lack of creativity in finding unique expressions? (Hi mr pot, meet kettle/pot calling kettle black)

[TierShift]

Some say an Obscurity lynch won’t provide info, this is wrong, if Obscurity is indeed scum it will give a lot of info regarding the ones who is pushing for a vig kill on Obscurity, in a game were we it is more likely that we don’t got a vig than it is that we do have one.

What you need to remember, though, is that information from a successful lynch is good and all, but that you also really need info from a mislynch, even more so. If we mislynch obscurity we won't be able to make a step forward tomorrow.

Other than that I like your post and I feel the same about 5 or 6/8 reads.

Am I the only one who is annoyed by the lack of creativity in finding unique expressions? (Hi mr pot, meet kettle/pot calling kettle black)

Well, a Obscurity lynch resulting in a townflip would also be something that can be analysed. Even though it would be easier for scum to blend in and go after such a target some of the talk regarding the vig option, the vote switching and in general peoples reasoning is something that I would look into.

Which reads do you disagree with?

I use these kinds of expressions to make myself understood, as english isn't my first language. Any kind of attempt at trying to "invent" my own expression, would probably only lead to the rest of you misunderstanding me.

What would you get from an obscurity townflip at the moment? I get absolutely nothing.

I have all reads the same except for mine (obviously), bulba's (for I think he is a tad more scummy than you depict him and I never had a townread on him anyway) and I'm not sure about Fu (not even in my own mind....)

[TierShift]

I haven't read the other game and I'm participating so cut the crap and get your ass in here.

[TierShift]

No need to rush, is there?

L-1 btw?

[TierShift]

Ugh this guy has been more newb than anything alignment indicative. I'd be fine with a PL but we've got 10 days left and I see zero reason to end it as of yet.

[TierShift]

Fuck this I want to hammer but my mind is telling me not to.

Maybe if we ask nicely scum will kill him as a christmas present?

I still think he has shown more noobiness than scumminess.

[TierShift]

Cuz you are shining bro!

[TierShift]

Just to be sure, you say he claims scum because he's got lowest postcount.

Obscurity please tell me it's not true that your reads are solely based off of activity

[TierShift]

It's not, honestly. And yes BB, I did see that that was his only reasoning thus far, but I'm asking him if there's really no other reason.

Obs, why do you vote bard when you are way more sure that BB is scum? There's no shame in changing a vote.

[TierShift]

I think he means that if we get a NK and a lyncg every night we will end up in Mylo a day earlier than we could have been in lylo. In mylo, we would no lynch.

[TierShift]

Or if we have a full vig he could just vig multiple times but yeah enough spec up speculation. I agree with your post and I too will hammer at deadline.

[TierShift]

Well, since we

will have

to dispose of obs, a vigkill and then hoping for another vigkill or doctor is better than just lynching and then not being able to benefit from a doctor or vig.

[TierShift]

I think both of you (BB, Titus) make valid points, but I'm with BB here.
The chance of a vig in the setup is small (30% or something, wrote it before). I'm not willing to give up our day 2 lynch to something stupid with 70% probability. I'd rather 100% give up our day 1 lynch.

I know the scum won't be able to fakeclaim vig anymore but well that's something I'm willing to lose.

[TierShift]

You better do that, or I will.

[TierShift]

Yeah mod don't worry about that deadline.

There has been enough time to object now.

VOTE: obscurity

I outhammered you Titus and fu, suck it >:)

[TierShift]

I'll have to believe the claim, but keep in mind that in 65% of setups there is not a doc. I'd say it makes a high risk high reward fakeclaim for scum. Just as a reminder that we have no way to tell if a doc claim is fake in a majority of cases.
@Titus: BB doesn't have to be scum if bulba is...it just seems highly unlikely the other way around.

Fu, don't you believe the claim? What is the reason for tunneling on bulba?
Why did you claim vanilla? If you're VT, how do you know bulba is scum?
I don't get your behaviour and would vote you, if bulba had not asked us not to do so.

[TierShift]

All right this clears bard and BB.
Bard, remember that bulba would most likely fake claim doc with a protect on a townie, so there's no coincidence there.

[TierShift]

Or wait I think this only clears BB.
Anyway scum probably isn't in bard or bulba.
Nor do I believe it to be in crust or cherry.
So for me it's Titus and Fu.

[TierShift]

Look, the deal is it's either (35%) 1v1 with doc or (65%) obvtown. Goes for both bulba and you (cop then)
You are town anyway so no reason to distrust your claim.

You and bulba picked the same player. That's a coincidence either way, whether bulba is scum or not.

[TierShift]

There is no reason as to why you would hold your shot since you are both townread anyway.
I did forget to account for godfather blegh
Is a doc notified if they've been roleblocked?

P-edit: then we agree, good.

[TierShift]

You seem out of sorts, your faux pas of referring to an ongoing game is a big part of what I am talking about. Maybe aloof was the wrong choice of words, but you just seem different from other games I have played with you when you were town. And no I don't have many other specifics to cite, just your general vibe you have going this game, I can't shake it.

Mark my words, this BB boy ain't right.

Vote him then.

No, I already stated I would rather vote with brain rather than gut. Are you just using my gut suspicion to further a BB wagon?

I find that bullshit. This sounds like an excuse to push someone as scum but not vote them. I get not voting one at a time, but you cannot argue for someone as a scumread and then refuse to vote them.

Tiershift, I am more easily understood as scum than town because I already know who is scum.

Bulba, No. I don't understand. What is your case on Fu? I have a townread on him.

I quoted all posts of Titus involving Fu day 1. I don't like how that fu townread came out of nowhere. Then there was a very quick Fu vote at the start of day 2. Usually townreads don't flip over to scumreads so quickly.
Nor do I like that you are absolutely unreadable to me.
I already thought you and fu were the two most scummy players and now I checked back on your interaction...ew. Titus&Fu scumteam methinks.
VOTE: Titus

P-edit: fu, answer the questions I asked you in my first post d2 please.

[TierShift]

For me it's reasons in bard's post+PoE+sick tunnel on bulba even after claim

P-edit: how did you townread fu in the first place?

[TierShift]

You make it seem like you were very convinced he was town. Judging from your last post, you still think that he is town, but that he is taking the wrong course of action. This doesn't match up with your vote on him. I think you were just going with the flow.
The coaching is also not to my liking.

[TierShift]

However, Fu should be looking at the larger picture if he is town.

Instead, now he's totally saying Bulba scum

when a

rational townplayer

should be backing off and accepting the townblock for what it is

. His death tunnel lacks a coherent explanation

though

.

I don't think the italics part is necessary and is possible coaching. Especially the underlined words.

The use of 'though' here indicates that you think fu is town, al

though

there is no logical explanation for his tunnel.

[TierShift]

Varsoon what happened to your pools of scum?
Aren't I scum with cherry or titus now?

[TierShift]

You still think bulba is scum. Why don't you vote him?

Your scumreads day 1 are bulba and BB and you unvote bulba and say BB is town. Who are your scumreads now?

I don't like the way you are trying to connect yourself to the obscurity mislynch.

I will state intent after cherry checks in.

[TierShift]

Fu I don't twist your words and you are not answering my questions.

If you really don't want a quicklynch you should cooperate.

If you still think bulba is scum you should push for him.

[TierShift]

Sakura: look at posts 445 and 447 and fu's initial reaction to the bulba claim. And his lack of answers.

[TierShift]

Last time I checked Titus was in your scumpool as well. What happened?

[TierShift]

Since we're all agreeing on a fu lynch,

I hereby state intent to hammer.

Fu, I give you 36 hours from this post to make me change my mind. You can begin by answering my questions and giving out reads.

[TierShift]

Bard claimed to have copped BB, twas not fu.

I do not understand why one of the people who docced/copped BB has to be scum.

Wait I get it you think two people claimed doc you should reread.

[TierShift]

Reading, it takes skill.

I thought that Fu's 415 was a VT claim. Now that I reread, I'm not so sure that it was exactly that. Fu, do you claim VT?

Varsoon, please tell us what you think of Fu now that he isn't doc.
And update your scum pools maybe.

[TierShift]

Varsoon, are you saying that bulba is as scummy as fu?
Why is CherryDP scummier than Titus?

Bard, there's one scum in pool 1 and one in pool 2.

[TierShift]

Stuffed Crust your latest post is good.

I unstate intent to hammer

(is that a thing?)
I don't know if anyone ever played with scum Fu before. If yes, pease tell me if he feels the same here. I tried to look into a few games and his play here has been mostly lazier than his usual game, scum or town. I'd say his scumgame is different than his play here. I really hate cold meta though so if anyone can tell me about their game with Fu it'd be nice.

Fu's posts just now are good and from town mindset. I like how he distrusts a claim but I don't like how he keeps tunneling. The early claim is also meh.
Combined with earlier reads, Fu's gone to null/slightly scummy for me.

Titus keeps creeping me out more and more though. The post BB pointed out feels super duper awkward.
I don't like how she's following my lead either.
Idk if I unvoted yet but just to restate
VOTE: Titus
Cherry/titus or fu/Titus are both possible.

Bulba get your ass in here and don't just lazily lurk and leave your vote.

[TierShift]

All right I'll give a list if you insist.

from town to scum:
TSB/BB
SC
Bulba/Cherry
Fu
Titus

[TierShift]

consistency in enumeration is much appreciated.

How am I doing everything possible to avoid a Fu wagon? Am I attacking you just to avoid the wagon? Did you want me to quickhammer? I don't understand.

[TierShift]

Titus I really don't understand what you are saying. Do those 5 points reflect my behaviour, my thought-process, your own thought-process or are they just general comment on the current state of affairs?
Are you yourself trying to link myself to fu or what?

[TierShift]

prod on bulba, please

[TierShift]

Bulba, there's no way you are conftown atm.

SC your 543 is awful please don't do posts like that.

[TierShift]

Nope you could be scum and have no killed and now claim doc. Risky but no way conftown.
Stop setup speculating because it only will help scum.

[TierShift]

If you insist.

Then if scum has no strongman town has either a 1-shot vig, a 1-shot friendly neighbour or a 1-shot roleblocker. The latter 2 would have claimed by now I think, so I suppose we have a vig. And we have a mafia roleblocker then so the vig cannot claim.

Thoughts?

[TierShift]

I think know who has what as well and I'm just hoping that this little chitchat of ours didn't just help scum in finding out.
Can you maybe further elaborate on how the latest Fu posts come from scum and what still makes him so scummy?

[TierShift]

Bard if we did have an RB that used his powers I think he would have claimed long ago. I don't see how a RB claiming would invalidate bulba's claim, though.

Bulba, I don't see how his most recent posts are AtE but I do agree that his reads are all over the place. I think I could see myself voting him again if he doesn't work harder to catch scum, but he's made a start and I wanna see how it develops.

P-edit: fu gtfo that bulba post was not scummy at all

[TierShift]

I think I'm pretty sure fu is scum and if he isn't bulba is.

I'll explain after I get an answer to this.

Yeah well I am human Tier. I try but I got no sleep last night.

1)Attacking me to avoid Fu wagon
2) You know Fu is likely to join you out of preservation
3) It is much harder to lynch scum when scum don't bus
4) You have a hedge in your reads if Fu is scum
5) You are trying to associate me with Fu.

That looks like textbook scum to me, although your play aside from this has been pretty town. So I can't have you as my biggest townread outside the block.

Titus I really don't understand what you are saying. Do those 5 points reflect my behaviour, my thought-process, your own thought-process or are they just general comment on the current state of affairs?
Are you yourself trying to link myself to fu or what?

[TierShift]

Oh I also want cherrydrpepper to give their fully synched up reads list and possible intent first.

[TierShift]

Reread, updating my read on SC:
Your posting style lulls me into sleep, glad I did a reread. The only thing that really stuck out as being town to me was the misreading of day 2 start, but I also got sick scumvibes when I saw these posts again: 145 ewwwwww that vote 182 more ewww shitty votes+bard suckup.
You're moving down to null-scum.

Cherry get your ass in here why are you both lurking this hard? Don't wanna scumslip?

[TierShift]

I still think we should lynch Fu. I was starting to doubt when he started answering my questions, but then he complacently fell back into doing nothing, instead of taking this second wind and do some good old scumhunting with it.

This.

UNVOTE: titus
Titus is town.
After our marathon game I reread Titus ans found her to be townish and my case to be weak. She is right that tge push I made on her was to avoid the Fu wagon and I was also overly trying to connect her to fu.
You might seriously wanna think about changing that avatar, slash isn't real everyone knows that.

This makes the Fu wagon all town so he is probably scum.

He would be together with cherry by PoE but I have bulba and SC as backup scumreads.

P-edit: town wagon argument still stands because it was for so long.

[TierShift]

Why don't you just cut the AtE crap and play to your wincon?

You aren't lurking anymore actually but you keep on being scummy when you had a chance not to do so anymore.

Don't tell us 'we' are going for lynch all lurkers, tell us specifically who is and how they don't have solid reasons to vote you. Who do you think the scum is that hopped on your wagon?

P-edit:

cherry is voting but w/e

[TierShift]

Frustrating: People sass me, but votes don't come my way. I feel like I'm being strung up without the rope involved. I guess I get to live another day since I'm such a prime and unclaimed candidate for lynching.

Reassuring: Tier drilling Fu instead of hammering.

Are you asking people to vote their null or null/scum reads over their townreads?

And I will definitely hammer, but not yet. Why aren't you hammering then?

I finished rereading, cherry moves up in my reads list. I basically got almost everyone as town, except for two

The list goes from most town to most scum

Town
Tsb/BB
Bulba
Cherry
Titus

Null
SC

Scum
Fu

I don't feel too bad about a fu/SC scumteam, but if fu flips town then SC moves up and I will be sure to give the wagon another look.

Fu, you are not cutting the AtE crap at all so don't say you do.

[TierShift]

Why does Fu keep moving up and how is he higher than bard?
Would you say he's the same level of town as BB is?

SC you townreading Fu so strongly creeps me the fuck out.

[TierShift]

SC don't you agree that Fu's latest posts have been a whole lot of AtE? How would you expect scum to act when they don't have any defense left?

[TierShift]

I didn't even have a chance for a defense, as soon as the day started I was basically strung up. Don't you think pushing so quickly for a lynch is scummy?

Tier, do me a favor and.play devils advocate. When I flip town who in your eyes will look the worst?

Outside of yourself I mean......

Hey, did you even notice that I was defending you a few pages ago? You're acting like I am the guy that has been pushing your lynch, while I gave you a shot to redeem yourself and you didn't take it.

If this is, next to an AtF, also a question, I would answer either Bulba or Titus since the rest on the long L-1 wagon is even less scummy.

[TierShift]

I guess Fu and SC are talking some kind of sense into me.

Update to the question:
If Fu flips town I'm sure I want to lynch bulba. I'm still not exactly sure about his sick tunnel, if it's scum trying to get everyone on the wagon or if it's just town tunneling.

The thing that keeps him high in my reads list is his claim.

What I just thought of is this:
Bulba was moderately scummy day 1.
If he is scum he would need the claim to not immediately die after perhaps getting Fu lynched, if you understand what I mean. (Read that sentence 3 times to understand.) What I mean with that is that if bulba is scum it would perhaps be smarter to claim now and have 35% of a CC (which isn't even that bad cause doc would die now too) instead of a guaranteed lynch a few days ahead.

I want everyone to tell me if they agree that bulba needed the claim as scum or not. I also want to know how much the claim clears him.

Don't get me wrong, I still wanna lynch Fu today. But I'm saying I think it's either bulba or fu.

[TierShift]

Yep you got it

[TierShift]

I should have been more specific.
I'm asking whether you agree that bulba would have been lynched today or tomorrow without the claim and if claiming would have improved the situation in case of bulbascum.

[TierShift]

Okay, the first part of 641 was what I wanted to hear, thanks. The second part of that post is a little far-fetched, but who would that partner be?

I think there was definitely more than a little suspicion of bulba, but I don't know him or his confidence in his own abilities that well, so I really can't say.

Titus, why do you townread bulba so strongly? Would you see him as scum if Fu flips town? If yes, who's the partner?

[TierShift]

How am I supposed to know? You probably know better.

[TierShift]

Thanks for reminding me that I was gonna ask that.

@mac: why aren't you posting?

What I'm trying to get clear in my mind is if the scumminess of the tunnel on possible town is offset by the towniness of the claim, so if more people want to help with that that would be lovely.

[TierShift]

Ugh you feel unnatural just now.

[TierShift]

Haven't we gone over this? Is there a single reason for the RB not to claim?

[TierShift]

Perhaps it would have been even better, frame the player roleblocked (if town) and then, after pushing a mislynch, be conftown.

[TierShift]

I'm saying the plan could go haywire. What if Bulba was blocked by the roleblocker? Bam, wrecked for not even nightkilling anyway.

He's taking a risk, yes.

Titus I don't understand your last posts. Who could think they could lynch BB.
I'm not pushing the RB to claim if he has withheld his shot. Me and BB were talking about the case that the RB had already used his shot N1.

[TierShift]

Ok I get it now. Stuff you talk about is reaally far-fetched, though.
Could you please not use BB to refer to bulba?

[TierShift]

I know I said I don't trust him, but the way it appears to be played out seeing bulbazak as scum is probably unlikely.

I am.basically back at square one here heh.

What. You come over to the Netherlands tomorrow and buy me a beer.

Why isn't bulba likely scum anymore?
What are your reads?

[TierShift]

Sorry for suspecting you?
Why'd I move down, because I don't take claims for granted?

[TierShift]

Widening my pool of possible scum =/= setting myself up to vote anybody.

I think I have a very decent pool of possible scum in you, SC and Fu, I don't see how exactly I'm leaving all possibilities open.

I think a scumpool of 3 is better than a scumpool of 1, js.

[TierShift]

Please don't; I'm not done talking about bulba yet, I'll explain tomorrow.

[TierShift]

Ugh fuckers.
That was one stupid hammer.

I'm not sure at all that Fu'll flip scum but well too late now

[TierShift]

I'll comment when I'm home but just to SC: I'm not scumreading either of em now, ISO me. I think at least one scum needs to be in there if bard is town, though. Will reread on that later.

[TierShift]

Ok, Tiershift, why were you beginning to suspect Fu may have been town? The mod locked the thread before I could ask you that question. All I saw was a bunch of AtE, everyone's scummy but me type drivel.

I was gonna post the first post earlier and then I saw Fu was hammered before it was posted and then I was damn mad and slightly raged. 'Twas AtE though and I hate that myself too, sorry.
I think it was damn obvious though that I was saying it was either Fu or bulba and that my strong suspection on bulba automatically means Fu is less likely to be scum. And I was not done talking about it grrrr.

SC, you claiming to have RB'd bulba N1 further reinforces my thought that bulba would fakeclaim as scum. Let's assume bulbascum for a moment. I'm pretty sure bulba could see from the NK choice he submitted if a doc protection was possible or if a RB was more likely. If a RB was more likely (let's say he tried to NK me or Titus) he knew the only way he could get away with it was fakeclaiming doc. Plus, a very very big plus, with CDBB scum would very likely have used their strongman N1.

Plus his game hasn't looked mostly null so far (not town like most of the others) plus I can't get around the idea that there has to be scum within the original 4 on fu's wagon (BB, TSB, bulba, Titus) and I'm thinking it's way more likely to be bulba than titus (rereading on tsb after this post)

Not gonna vote now due to being in MyLo, but someone's gotta come with very very good reasons to vote someone else to change my mind.

Just for the good order, bulba claiming doc doesn't make him scummy (except for the strongman part, so maybe a little), but I'm saying it shouldn't be used as a point in his defence.

[TierShift]

Tsb is still town
I think it's bulba/cherry. I used to like cherry's hydra dissonance for town and thought we would get two active town players to help us. After rereading it's just lurk lurk lurk, being obvious and being inconsistent and writing it off to being a hydra. Most of all it's just plain PoE.

[TierShift]

Crap I forgot doc protection would fail if roleblocked. Damn I need to think hard now.
I'm assuming SC is truthful because his play seems consistent with his claim and I can't think of any reason to fakeclaim here.

1) Bulba is misleading us with the talk of a strongman. He tried to kill n1 and failed due to being blocked.

2) We have a situation where the scum nked to try and out the PRs and hoped the doc would heal their own and claim it.

3) Bulba did not try to kill n1, but his scum partner tried to attack BBMolla and ran into a real doctor (who may be full bc I would expect a cc otherwise).

4) Bulba fake claimed doctor, real doc did not cc. Bulba is town. Scums tried to shoot someone and failed.

You're thinking too hard about it and still forgetting stuff.
I don't see 2 happening, really. 4 neither bulba is not a moron. 3 is only possible with bard being scum cos we have 5 letters otherwise and bard isn't scum so.
You are forgetting SC being roleblocked and bulba's protection succeeding.
So it's either: bulba lied
Or: SC was roleblocked ánd scum tried to kill BB
Ockham's razor+my reads give me that bulba is lying. I also really see no reason why scum would have blocked SC specifically, if they thought he was a PR they'd just kill him.

[TierShift]

Nope, my scenario is only DCBB in case bulba is town. If not, it's CBBT and thus no strongman

So it's either: bulba lied
Or: SC was roleblocked ánd scum tried to kill BB ánd scum didn't use their strongman

FTFM

Can anyone see any kind of mistake in this logic?

[TierShift]

Hmmm, that last post of DDP's trying to paint SC more likely scum than Bulba.

Also Bulba trying to throw suspicions towards me at the start of the day also seems off.


Bulba and DDP scumteam acutally seems very very plausible at this point.

Why do you say exactly what I think so many times, fucking creepy.

TSB you got your facts mixed up tho. SC thought that FU had claimed doc and that BULBA CC'd, not the other way around. Scum would never CC in this setup day 2. Get it?

I'm gonna nake up my mind about CDP

[TierShift]

*make up, dammit, make up.

I'm pretty damn sure scum is CDP and bulba. That or SC is lying, but I don't think so. 735 felt so off...ew. your thought process is so extremely different from mine and Tsb's and titus's that I can't believe it to be something else than scum. You're just trying to frame SC. I'm just gonna show it.

Ok so let's get some things down.

By Occam's Razor Bulba's scum,

but

let's look at the situation behind the claims.

But: aka I'm not willing to believe bulba is scum.

There wasn't a kill Night 2, if Bulba's scum he would've been roleblocked and hence his kill couldn't be commited or scum gambited.
From SC's point of view they blocked scum who was comitting the Night Kill, specially if their target is the one who claimed Doctor, why not claim their target right there and then?
Only Fu ever doubted Bulba's claim if my memory serves me right, why wouldn't SC try to roleblock Bulba again considering he was coasting off a doc fakeclaim from their PoV?

First question he explained already
Second question: lol like bulba is gonna perform the NK again if RB'd

Very Unlikely Scenario:
Both SC and Bulba are town and scum gambited no Kill, this would have easily led to an 1v1 between Bulba and SC yesterday instead of today which is MyLo.

Likely Scenario:
SC is scum, who has run out of possible mislynches and wants to frame Bulba today to get their last mislynch on a Town Doc.

U serious there's 3 people able to be mislynched today (me, titus, bulba if he weren't scum.

You are scum with bulba. (Or you are just the best scum I've ever seen together with SC and you are indirectly framing bulba. Kudos, then.)

I'll vote after SC responds.

P-edit: true, bulba would have had to claim doc either way.

[TierShift]

Sure tell me when you're ready. I'm gonna do a little reviewing of my own, too.

[TierShift]

Why did you need to overexplain it?

Anyway so TS huh? guess imma see if TS+SC fits...

~Sakura Hana

I think you're missing the point. On purpose.

Anyway, stuff like 719 makes me sure that bulba is scum and I strongly think that it's together with CDP but there's a little nagging feeling in me that Titus may still be the partner.

So I'd rather lynch bulba first but if you guys absolutely want to we can lynch CDP.

SC state your night target now. You can even do it like this:
If we lynch CDP, target is bulba
If we lynch bulba, target is CDP

If for some reason CDP or bulba isn't scum then improvise with your roleblock.

[TierShift]

Oh wait forgot the roleblocker can't submit kill part

SC state target and I will vote cherry

[TierShift]

How do the rb work? If the scum got a rb, and SC rb scum and scum rb SC will both rb's go through or not, and will scum be able to kill in this situation?

I have no idea. It doesn't matter though in the case bulba is scum with CDP. Bulba can't be the roleblocker because he submitted the kill.

@mod: what would happen if a scum and town roleblocker targeted each other and the scum RB submitted the kill. Would it go through?

@SC: you need to understand that there is no way you can change your target anymore without stating so in thread. If you do, we'll lose.
You're saying safest bet is bulba, is this your target?
I assume so now, but I'd like assurance.

VOTE: cherrydrpepper

[TierShift]

Say who you think is scum with damn good reasons for it and I might unvote.

[TierShift]

Are you saying I'm the partner or bard?
Bard claiming cop is town business. No single reason for scum to do so and then declare an inno.
Me, well I'm not. Saying that won't make me move my vote.

One of bulba/SC is scum, yes. I don't see them being scum together though, which leads to you or Titus as the partner. Titus, as you've said, looks very town and you don't so I'm going with you.

I'd say bulba has a slightly higher chance of flipping scum but he can't be the RB and we need to catch the RB today for SC to be able to roleblock the killer.

Convince me of SC scum and don't use the prequel. I think he could'be pushed for bulba regardless of RB claim if he were scum.

[TierShift]

Cherry, you make sense. But you have to see that from my POV it's either bulba/sc with you/Titus.

I think Titus isn't the partner so you are.

If it's bulba or SC we can see tomorrow, then. If SC blocks bulba and kill still goes through, SC gets lynched, easy as that.

The way you are not pushing for your SC scumread makes you scum. (Saying vote bulba then, not me)

@Titus:
If RB is the only scum left they can RB and kill I thought?

[TierShift]

UNVOTE:
Just wanna discuss a little bit longer.

Cherry, can you see Titus as scum?

[TierShift]

Damn you make me reconsider Titus as scum again.

Tough times.

[TierShift]

Lemme break it to ya: bard is town.
You say SC/bulba is 100% scum yet bulba is least likely to flip scum? If you're that sure on SC why don't you vote him?

Why are you reading titus as town next to the moonlogic?

[TierShift]

You said 100% scum is in them. Bulba is least likely to flip scum in your reads. Is it a 50/50 or what you make my mind boggle.

Bard has played in a super town way and there is no way that scum would claim cop and inno someone day 2.

So you just don't want to consider Titus as scum because you read her wrong once?

[TierShift]

Rly

Chat a little bit more with me just now

[TierShift]

Why cant titus be scum

[TierShift]

Good news blocker cant block and kill same night.
Somebody tried to convey that message but I surely didnt get it

Anyway we lynch bulba now and partner tomorrow after block does or does not succeed

VOTE: bulba

[TierShift]

I'll elaborate after work

[TierShift]

Damn scum was good ugh GG

That thing with you having RB'ed Bulba and still having Fu as a bigger scumread though should have been my clue though.

This.
That fakeclaim was soooo good and consistent with his play tho ufggg

Dam bulba was scummy still how can he be town

This is my second non-marathon game to finish, can someone comment on my play and how I can get townread more easily?

P-edit:
I'd love to play again in the see nine finale, these players and mod are awesome!
Thx for modding, you did a great job!

[TierShift]

Policy lynch varsoon day 1 in finale

[TierShift]

@bard: thanks, I get townreads from it a lot of the time, tho. I think it's more playstyle than anything. I find it really hard to make substantial posts in the first few pages, so I do it like this, regardless of alignment.

Things I think I did wrong/should improve on as town:
1. Be less naive (I can't BELIEVE that I actually bought SC not attacking bulba due to possible no kill or roleblock)
2. Never ever try to speedlynch anyone without letting them talk regardless of how much I think they are scum (bulba lynch ugh >.>)
3. Always have an eye on who's posting and their style and what scumpairs are possible (possibilities were bulba/CDP, bulba/titus and SC/titus and I should have realised that the people posting were only possible scum+a very naive player (no offense bard, I was too) and I should definitely have waited for more input from CDP and bulba)
4. Keep an eye out for scum IIoA (Titus, and she was just too damn friendly and unsuspicious of me the last page)

Thoughts on my current list and what to add?
I won't take offense at anything just say it

[TierShift]

-Never believe someone who wants to convince you of something. Always come to your own conclusions.
-Never believe anyone's claim. Ever.

S'bout it.

I tend to do the first part...mainly because I'm new and other people's points sometimes make more sense than my own thoughts. That's bad? (Honest question)

Why can't I believe people's claims? If their play seems consistent with their claim, wht shouldn't I?

@Sakura: I did think bulba was more scummy than SC. Their targets tho

I've read mastin's guides when I just started but I'll reread them. I don't really have a concrete question to ask him, I think I'll just keep on learning by playing and afterwards asling comments on my play.

Thanks guys I'll reference myself to this thread every time I'm completely sure of anything and slap myself in the face and read these comments

[TierShift]

also trust people that are willing to work with you more often

I think I did this. This is why I thought Fu less likely to be scum and als made me have doubts about you vs titus for scum. Is this always a good indicator of alignment?

[TierShift]

Why did the mafia feel like they had to fakeclaim?

It was damn risky and I would possibly have pulled in a bulba lynch regardless. Furthermore, neither of you were likely to get lynched D3.

[TierShift]

If one of bulba or Titus isn't scum I will buy you all a beer.

Bulba wasn't scum, so one of them wasn't scum, aka you owe me a beer