Mastin Academy

[mastin2]

*Knocks on academy door*
"Hello? Anyone in there?"

Sorry. Life has been getting in the way of me responding. I'm not going to be able to give anyone proper responses until tomorrow (far too busy today), but needless to say, I've not forgotten about y'all. The doors to the academy are going to remain open as long as I remain alive. (And if I'm lucky, even after then. )

lol mastin. "I'm average, but it's okay." Your hubris is failing you, and the board might have to strip you of your Ph. D

My new shiny title says otherwise.

jesus

Yes?

Ok mastin, we've played together a few times, do you have any advice for me?

It's possible, but I'll have to think about it.

You should read my games in the future: I'd like to hear your thoughts, whether you join or just go over them after they're done.

Will try!

How do I get people to join my games...?

This is actually a great general question. I'll get around to answering it in a bit.

Mastin should I keep making insane setups?

This is another fairly decent general question. (The specific answer is that so long as you keep the games at least somewhat-reasonable, you should be okay. Vi has a nice guide on it. The game doesn't necessarily need to be 100% balanced [virtually impossible even in tamer setups], but it should be as close as possible. The game can be swingy, but should be reasonable. But all that said--overall, my personal feelings are that if the game's fun, balance takes a back seat so long as it's a small accidental imbalance rather than "HA HA FUCK YOU" imbalance. That IS my

personal

feelings, though, and not what I recommend following in general. So, yes. You can be insane. Just not insane-without-reason. )

What do I do as a VI and idiot if I suddenly find myself in game where I think everyone is idiot and I wanna rage-quite hard?

First, check to make sure you're not being the idiot and all of them knowing what they're doing. If you've done so and have concluded it's not you, but them? Celebrate. Maybe throw in a facepalm at the idiocy surrounding you, but relish the chance you've got. You've graduated from being a VI into being at least a decent player, surrounded by people stupider than you. (But again, this is only if you're not being arrogant and missing the fact that it's you who's wrong.) I'll see about giving a more in-depth detailed answer later.

how do I get people lynched?

whenever I try to push a lynch on someone I epically fail > < so generally I rely on other people buying my arguments on people and pushing the lynch themselves to actually get anyone lynched. it seems to work fine enough but actually pushing lynches is still a weak point for me and I want it to get better \:D/

This is actually much closer to the solution than you think. (Specifically, the bit about relying on others.) As with the others, it's something I'll be expanding upon later, but keep going down that route for the time being; it'll serve you well.

How do you lead a town

Same way you lead a lynch, something I need to expand upon some more. Basically, though, it boils down not to asserting yourself as a leader, at least not in the traditional sense. It comes down to you establishing yourself as reliable, treating the others with respect, working with them, and coming up with plans to unite them under your common banner.

Mastin, would you provide me with general principles and pointers?
I've played Mafia online for about six years, but there is different from here. It's extremely serious business here.
There's quite a bit I do know, but in order to be better on MS.net, I think I need more MS-centric advice.

Yes, I'm already partially in the process of doing so, though from what I've seen of you, you need a little more...heavy-handed...coaching. But to give a pointer that I'll expand upon in a later post--MS.net might seem like it's extremely-serious business (and it is! No other site has the same devotion to the game as MS.net has), but it's also incredibly-light-hearted in that people DO play here casually and for fun, and don't want that ruined by some asshole. (Not directed at any specific player.)

[kuribo]

How do you lead a town

You put the lead in their drinking water duh

[JacobSavage]

Does leading a town make them Bulletproof or Kill them?

[YellowKingValley]

If it is too late to vie for Town Leader position, should I go for Vice Town Leader or should I just lurk instead? What if there is only one doctor?

[Porochaz]

I have enjoyed reading this thread.

[Om]

*Knocks on academy door*
"Hello? Anyone in there?"

Sorry. Life has been getting in the way of me responding. I'm not going to be able to give anyone proper responses until tomorrow (far too busy today), but needless to say, I've not forgotten about y'all. The doors to the academy are going to remain open as long as I remain alive. (And if I'm lucky, even after then. )

lol mastin. "I'm average, but it's okay." Your hubris is failing you, and the board might have to strip you of your Ph. D

My new shiny title says otherwise.

jesus

Yes?

Ok mastin, we've played together a few times, do you have any advice for me?

It's possible, but I'll have to think about it.

You should read my games in the future: I'd like to hear your thoughts, whether you join or just go over them after they're done.

Will try!

How do I get people to join my games...?

This is actually a great general question. I'll get around to answering it in a bit.

Mastin should I keep making insane setups?

This is another fairly decent general question. (The specific answer is that so long as you keep the games at least somewhat-reasonable, you should be okay. Vi has a nice guide on it. The game doesn't necessarily need to be 100% balanced [virtually impossible even in tamer setups], but it should be as close as possible. The game can be swingy, but should be reasonable. But all that said--overall, my personal feelings are that if the game's fun, balance takes a back seat so long as it's a small accidental imbalance rather than "HA HA FUCK YOU" imbalance. That IS my

personal

feelings, though, and not what I recommend following in general. So, yes. You can be insane. Just not insane-without-reason. )

What do I do as a VI and idiot if I suddenly find myself in game where I think everyone is idiot and I wanna rage-quite hard?

First, check to make sure you're not being the idiot and all of them knowing what they're doing. If you've done so and have concluded it's not you, but them? Celebrate. Maybe throw in a facepalm at the idiocy surrounding you, but relish the chance you've got. You've graduated from being a VI into being at least a decent player, surrounded by people stupider than you. (But again, this is only if you're not being arrogant and missing the fact that it's you who's wrong.) I'll see about giving a more in-depth detailed answer later.

how do I get people lynched?

whenever I try to push a lynch on someone I epically fail > < so generally I rely on other people buying my arguments on people and pushing the lynch themselves to actually get anyone lynched. it seems to work fine enough but actually pushing lynches is still a weak point for me and I want it to get better \:D/

This is actually much closer to the solution than you think. (Specifically, the bit about relying on others.) As with the others, it's something I'll be expanding upon later, but keep going down that route for the time being; it'll serve you well.

How do you lead a town

Same way you lead a lynch, something I need to expand upon some more. Basically, though, it boils down not to asserting yourself as a leader, at least not in the traditional sense. It comes down to you establishing yourself as reliable, treating the others with respect, working with them, and coming up with plans to unite them under your common banner.

Mastin, would you provide me with general principles and pointers?
I've played Mafia online for about six years, but there is different from here. It's extremely serious business here.
There's quite a bit I do know, but in order to be better on MS.net, I think I need more MS-centric advice.

Yes, I'm already partially in the process of doing so, though from what I've seen of you, you need a little more...heavy-handed...coaching. But to give a pointer that I'll expand upon in a later post--MS.net might seem like it's extremely-serious business (and it is! No other site has the same devotion to the game as MS.net has), but it's also incredibly-light-hearted in that people DO play here casually and for fun, and don't want that ruined by some asshole. (Not directed at any specific player.)

-_-
Thats pretty bad way to graduate. I was happy as a VI and I shall enjoy my status till I

actually

know what I'm doing.

[Jake from State Farm]

how can I play better?

[mastin2]

If it is too late to vie for Town Leader position, should I go for Vice Town Leader or should I just lurk instead? What if there is only one doctor?

Need to write an article for this as well, but basically, a bad town has either no town leaders or too many town leaders. A good town has one town leader and maybe a backup or two. A great town is one in which the 'strong' players fill the role traditionally used by a single town leader, but do so as a group, having transcended the need for a singular player to guide them. It's one of the founding principles behind good, solid, actual townblocs. Town players who mutually trust one another and work together to try and find and lynch scum.

how can I play better?

I should totally make a general response on how players, in general, might be able to play better, by addressing common shortcomings in them. But as for you specifically, you're someone I'll need to put on the queue; it's simply been too long since we've directly interacted with one another as players, Jake.

Buuuuuuuuut, I'll give you a brief summary of what

might

help. My memory of you is of you being an arrogant ass. That's presumably changed, but I know the arrogant part remains since you've said here and there things that imply it and I think you even said in a thread or two of how you were proud to be arrogant. Effective listening comes from dropping the 'ass' part of it (I think you might have done so already, but if not, consider it), and effective scumhunting from reducing the 'arrogant' part. Reducing, but not eliminating. You can hold a fair amount of arrogance; the key is not letting your arrogance blind you, as it does occasionally do. And when it comes to being arrogant, you have to be lovably arrogant. (For instance, for the most part, I love playing with Majiffy--not despite his arrogance, but largely in part because of it.)

If you've already learned these lessons and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, well, then, again, the only way I'm going to be able to help is by directly interacting with you, because the above is the best I've got off of only having indirectly interacted with you. (Sorry.)

[Om]

Uh, I've experimented with that ''little arrogant'' thing to put more power (Don't ask me why I thought it was a good idea) into my play but it only got me lynched faster.

[Psyche]

won't in the long run

[Espeonage]

Nah Arrogance gets stuff done. And the more arrogant you are while alive, the less people will like you and the more your reads will be listened to when you flip.

[Jake from State Farm]

I should totally make a general response on how players, in general, might be able to play better, by addressing common shortcomings in them. But as for you specifically, you're someone I'll need to put on the queue; it's simply been too long since we've directly interacted with one another as players, Jake.

Buuuuuuuuut, I'll give you a brief summary of what might help. My memory of you is of you being an arrogant ass. That's presumably changed, but I know the arrogant part remains since you've said here and there things that imply it and I think you even said in a thread or two of how you were proud to be arrogant. Effective listening comes from dropping the 'ass' part of it (I think you might have done so already, but if not, consider it), and effective scumhunting from reducing the 'arrogant' part. Reducing, but not eliminating. You can hold a fair amount of arrogance; the key is not letting your arrogance blind you, as it does occasionally do. And when it comes to being arrogant, you have to be lovably arrogant. (For instance, for the most part, I love playing with Majiffy--not despite his arrogance, but largely in part because of it.)

If you've already learned these lessons and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, well, then, again, the only way I'm going to be able to help is by directly interacting with you, because the above is the best I've got off of only having indirectly interacted with you. (Sorry.)

I guess I never really thought about it like that, I never really considered myself arrogant until I looked it up in the dictionary for a refresher on the meaning and yeah I guess my play would come off as arrogant. I don't really think I am better than others, but I have trouble following people of unknown alignment.

I am not really able to town read people very often so trusting them is hard to do unless they can put together a good case, nobody seems to be able to put together cases anymore

[mastin2]

This is a mini-lesson, basically lifted from a PM. Many players have sought my advice when it comes to curving frustration towards other players. And I figured I'd give some public notes on the subject.

One of the main reasons that my presence probably helps players is that I actively focus on getting to intimately know the people. This does help me get to know their alignment, however, that is not the true purpose of it. The other (much larger) part of it is that its main purpose is for me to understand the drive behind the player and work with them.

So when I'm in a game, because I'm damn-good at it, it has this infectious presence that spreads to others, influencing them. Regrettably, not even I fully understand that talent. It's something I just kinda...

do

. So I can't guarantee I'll be able to players understand it, when not even I know why I'm that charismatic. My main piece of advice, I guess, would basically be that players as town need to apply tactics that once were scum-exclusive to their towngame--a mild form of trickery. (Sounds crazy, but hear me out.)

By which, I mean...the best way to make someone think you're harmless is to ask for their help. (I forget the exact wording, but I'm borrowing it from a prank master who used this tactic to pull off a massive prank.) In mafia game terms, this means that the best way to make someone not scumread you is to ask for their help in scumhunting. It shows humbleness, it shows willingness to work with them, it shows team effort, trust, and support. For them to trust you, first you must trust them, and that gesture (no matter how trivial it may seem) helps a lot.

Talking personally to each player is much more effective than talking to a general audience. When I post, my words are almost always directed at a specific player, a specific person, rather than an appeal to the town in general, because I'm aiming to convince them, one at a time, about something. Or if not convince them, work with them and allow them to effectively convince me. (Depends on whether it's post-flip or pre-flip of my "switch", so-to-speak.)

Sorry that I'm giving off the appearance of neglecting the academy. As this response shows, I'm not. (I'll get to your reply, Jake, when I'm able to do so. This does partially apply to you, though, in that the main theme of this mini-lecture is that trust is a key aspect of town victories.)

[Jake from State Farm]

If trust is a key aspect, I'm screwed

[Lord Mhork]

Well isn't mafia innately a team game anyway?

[Jake from State Farm]

Not really cause you don't know who is on your team.

[Lord Mhork]

It doesn't matter if you don't know who's on your team though. It's not you versus everyone else. It's you versus scum and your team is the rest of the uninformed majority. Really it's one of your jobs to find people you can trust to be town, isn't it?

I mean the other way is trying to play a survivor role and survivor sucks.

[Jake from State Farm]

Well I guess I have identified my problem, now how do I fix it...

[Titus]

Mastin, I'd like you to help me at some point. I do have a PhD in activity. LOL.

[Blair]

If trust is a key aspect, I'm screwed

It isn't.

[Espeonage]

If trust is a key aspect, I'm screwed

It isn't.

It can be. If you aren't working with the rest of the town, then the game is going to go downhill fast.

[Thor665]

Agreed. As scum there is nothing I like better than a lot of proud town chiefs and a lack of town braves.

[Lord Mhork]

Agreed. As scum there is nothing I like better than a lot of proud town chiefs and a lack of town braves.

[Blair]

If trust is a key aspect, I'm screwed

It isn't.

It can be. If you aren't working with the rest of the town, then the game is going to go downhill fast.

Trust isn't inherent to my win condition - as either alignment, incidentally. It's helpful in most cases, but not required and sometimes detrimental. There are other ways to get what I want.

Furthermore, I wouldn't necessarily equate cooperation with trust.

[BBmolla]

Mastin can you point out some of my flaws and give me some advice on getting better, we've played quite a few games together so I know you have a general idea of my play.

In particuar, what are some of the flaws you would use against me?

This is kind of in response to losing ADWD, Scummies, Marketplace and almost throwing Anything Goes.

I kind of have a guess as to what is my undoing, but I'd like to hear your input.

Advice for either alignment would be good.

Also you're welcome to air out frustrations about that one game with me and Cooldog, I know you're still bitter about that.