Town won 46% of Matrix 6 games

[Tierce]

This is an off-topic subject, but I'm sick and tired of that excuse and frankly people keep using it because they think replacing out when you're not having "fun" is acceptable. I have rather strong words about this matter because it is reaching ridiculous levels and happens in games where the moderators specifically ask for attention to flaking behaviors. Because people like mastin2 make Mafia "guides" where they encourage replacing out of games.


Cabd's take is not hyperbolic. Replacing out is against the spirit of the game and against the commitment you made when signing up to play. Sure, you

want

to have fun, but you cannot forget that Mafia is a psychological game, and "fun" is not mandatory and is not going to be present during a good part of the game.

In fact:

And I've always thought the golden rule was to have fun. Yes, I do understand that it's a commitment to join a game, and I do understand if I would be banned from joining any of Vi's games for a while because of the instability of my slot in this game...but I wasn't having fun, and I figured someone else would've had more fun in my slot in this game. Someone else would give the slot more attention than I was giving it. And I've never been a fan of players that complain that their play was worse for outside reasons...that's exactly what I was doing.

The golden rule is

not

to have fun. Yes, it's a game. But it's also a

psychological

game. Part of the scum's goal is to ensure the Town is so demotivated with their circumstances that they do not have the drive to read the game, to lynch well, to form Townblocks, etc. That can include deliberately sowing apathy. Replacing out because you're not having fun is not an acceptable excuse. If you're Town and you're not having fun, there's probably something in the game that needs fixed, and it's up to the playerlist to do it, not to

quit

. When you replace out, you are abandoning your win condition, so "replacing out for someone to give more attention to the slot" i.e. "for someone to be more proTown" damages a balance that was

deliberately

created

inside

the game with an event from

outside

the game.

If the game is not fun, MAKE it fun. Fight through the apathy. Go up against the scum who are producing it. Yeah, it's hard, but it's a valid scum strategy and your job as Town is to thwart that from

inside

the game. Replacing out because you're not having "fun" is not acceptable in our games and violates the integrity of the game. You made a commitment to play the game when the game started, and it was not a commitment to "play while the game is fun for me".

Besides, for IC's don't you think it would be better to replace out and have a fresh one join in than having an IC that's too overwhelmed to properly teach the game stay in anyway just to set an example?

This kind of argument is a self-serving excuse for why you choose to flake on a responsibility. You're doing it for the sake of the

game

?

No, you're not. You're disrespecting the moderator, the other players, yourself. You're giving up on something you made a commitment to when you know that one of the characteristics of the game is the psychological play, and then justifying it saying that you're making the game "better" by letting someone "better" replace in. Then why did you choose to play in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to let the "better" player in from the start while you keep to a hobby better suited to you than forum Mafia?

You should stay and set the goddamn example. You know what the example is? It is someone who can handle responsibility, who recognizes apathy, and who manages to power through it despite the odds. THAT is the example that ICs should be setting, and that is the example all of our (special snow) flakes should be following. They are not, they are being

encouraged

to replace out of games.

There's no excuse for replacing out outside of a real life emergency. An

emergency

. Something that could not have been predicted and that is actually hindering your ability to make time for this responsibility, not "hey I just remembered I am spending the summer elsewhere so I have to replace out".
Plan your schedule and know yourself. Not just how much time you think you have, but how much psychological stamina you have to handle a game where apathy is a real power and a tool. There's no shame in not signing up to play, but there's quite a bit of shame in being refused entrance to a game because you have a flaking history.


Do I like playing scum? No. Does it kill my motivation to play? Yes. Have I ever replaced out of a scumgame? No. I signed up to play, I play until the moderator tells me I'm no longer part of the game. Because that's the promise I made to the moderator when signing up to their game, to the playerlist that I'm in, and to myself.

[Tierce]

Yeah cabds take is hyperbolic comparing replacing out of a game to a death in the family.

My last post didn't consider your post, so reading.

He's not comparing it. He's saying that if you don't have an actual emergency in your life, you shouldn't replace out, because a Mafia game is a commitment you chose to sign up for (especially an IC case). His wording is kind of funky, but read it in a different order:

"Why the fuck did you sign up to IC if you can't follow through on your promise to teach, short of a death in the family or something of similar seriousness?"

[Tierce]

There's no excuse for replacing out outside of a real life emergency. An emergency. Something that could not have been predicted and that is actually hindering your ability to make time for this responsibility, not "hey I just remembered I am spending the summer elsewhere so I have to replace out".
Plan your schedule and know yourself. Not just how much time you think you have, but how much psychological stamina you have to handle a game where apathy is a real power and a tool. There's no shame in not signing up to play, but there's quite a bit of shame in being refused entrance to a game because you have a flaking history.

Yeah this cannot be the hard and fast case. There's no way to pre-assess the psychological impact of a psychological game. Sure you might get better at handling that aspect of things but it's not the only aspect of why a person might replace, either.

Which is why I have no problem with the newbie replacement rate. Yeah, it's kind of irking, but they are new, testing the waters, seeing if they like this game. Doing so outside of a forum specifically designated for that (Road to Rome) is disrespectful, though.

I'm not saying that the psychology of the game is the only reason someone replaces out. But by and large, as you said, people replace out due to frustration with the gamestate. Instead of being encouraged to fight through it, and thus learn progressively to deal with a big aspect of Mafia, we have material on MD by at least one newbie-respected user that encourages replacing out of games. That directly goes against the "we-should-not-accept-unacceptable-behavior" line. People keep replacing out because the game is not "fun", because someone else can do "better", because they are bored, because they fell behind and can't be bothered to catch up, because they are being pressured to contribute. These are aspects that need to be dealt with

inside

the game. You don't get up and abandon a board game in the middle of a session because the cards are against you right then, you do your best to turn the game around, even if you lose in the end--and that's what a lot of Mafia players fail to grasp when they choose to replace out for menial reasons.

There

are

actual circumstances in which I am more than willing to understand why someone replaces out. Merely because they are not having "fun", however, is not one of them.


PEdit: The last three ones are terrible excuses. The first one obviously makes sense. Please,

please

, in the case of the first one, just replace out instead of using it to garner sympathy. You have a right to your grief and my heart goes out to you, but using it to get a foothold in the game is disgusting, and yes, I have seen it happen. I hope that moment never comes again.


It's a not a hard and fast line when it comes to real life events, but I

do

draw it at claims of apathy/boredom/not having fun.

That's part of the game

.