Private Topics Discussion (Now with Mish Mash)

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Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:48 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 6, Xalxe wrote:
In post 5, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 0, zoraster wrote:6. Private threads will show up in both ego searches ("Show My Posts") and bookmarks/subscriptions.
Do they appear in View New Posts if you have access to them?
No, just tested.
Passed on.
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Post Post #25 (isolation #1) » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:54 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Zoraster is correct. This is actually MUCH more secure than QT, which could potentially even end up on Google if linked badly. This is a whitelist system, meaning you have to authorize them to have access, even if they somehow got the link.

Obviously we PREFER that things are handled through the Game Mod. Sometimes players don't know who to contact though, and sometimes the (potential) violation involves more than just your game, or worst case scenario it involves another game that YOU are a player in. We will still work through the Game Mod as much as possible.
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Post Post #28 (isolation #2) » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:26 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

They should have the automatic PRIVATE TOPIC: prefix in all "list" pages (while they are locked down, anyway). Coloring them green there might actually draw the eye of an Accidental Reader more than usual, plus it is likely not easy to encode.
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Post Post #30 (isolation #3) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:33 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

You should already be /inned to the right Queue for the game you're going to play, right? Just ask the LM of that queue.
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Post Post #35 (isolation #4) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:58 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

I find the idea that a Game Mod is too lazy to send one additional PM kind of hilarious. I know you're kinda-joking, but...
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Post Post #39 (isolation #5) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:54 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 38, Zachrulez wrote:
In post 35, Mr. Flay wrote:I find the idea that a Game Mod is too lazy to send one additional PM kind of hilarious. I know you're kinda-joking, but...
I take all the shortcuts available to me throughout the whole process. :cool:
You should add up the time you spend drafting Role PMs and flavor posts, and then subtract the time spent writing that extra PM. So far that has been the biggest advantage to me, even over the security questions.
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Post Post #41 (isolation #6) » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:08 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Yes. They don't "time out" and there is no expectation in place that you MUST release them after the game, same as QTs.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #7) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:18 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 42, Who wrote:Can we use them for hydras, or are they only for games and setup creation?
I don't believe we've addressed that, but at this time I'd prefer to keep them for game-setup-related threads. I will bring the question up, however.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #8) » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:56 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

This actually does NOTHING to guarantee unbiased role assignments. can be manipulated (in ways I won't get into).

That said, if you want to roll dice in your setup PT to arrange your game, feel free. Just don't assume it's foolproof when/if someone questions you on it.
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Post Post #82 (isolation #9) » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:13 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 75, zoraster wrote:I doubt there are many mods who manipulate games hugely. I think it's likely that they randomly generate and then look at it and either (a) think this is a crappy draw and redo the randomness or (b) swap a couple of players around to make for what they think is a more fun experience. I think mods do this in the hopes of providing players with a better game, so it's not like I think mods are doing this maliciously. But I think it goes on.
Counterpoint: It's not interesting when the New York Yankees play the Cedar Rapids Kernels. That's not a game.

Will I manipulate the draw to give a favorite player a favorite role? No. But there have been situations where the game benefits from a different randomization seed. As a Dungeon Master for RPGs, I can tell you that the dice hate you, and the players both.
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Post Post #116 (isolation #10) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:18 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 113, N wrote:How can something be more random? It's either random or it's not.
This. You're confusing the appearance of randomness with actual randomness.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #11) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:44 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

It's because Completed PTs weren't excluded from Active Topics until just now.
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Post Post #166 (isolation #12) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:08 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 164, zoraster wrote:This is my point. I think Richard is just an example of someone who is willing to admit to it, whether he's misguided or not. I suspect he is just one of many. Which is why I don't think it's wrong for me to say I don't trust mods to secretly randomly generate without manipulating.
I'm legitimately curious what you think you gain by a permanent paranoia about the randomness of role generation.

Even if a mod fudges 15% of the time, it's not anything you can rely on or make decisions based on. Newbie Games showed a general and systematic bias against some setups, and we fixed that by having the LM roll for them. But for an individual mod, in an individual game? The fact that Richard MIGHT reroll tells you absolutely nothing about the setup. The fact that I might reroll tells you nothing. The setup is already so complex that the small chance of a non-random factor literally vanishes unless they are blatantly assigning PRs to their friends. In which case, would you really play that mod's game to begin with? It's not like you can 'verify' that they have randomly assigned the roles BEFORE that particular game is over, so what are you really gaining by all the hoops?
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Post Post #168 (isolation #13) » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:44 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 167, zoraster wrote:You've made a lot of assumptions about what players might and might not take into account. I do not make the same assumptions.
I believe the burden of proof is on you to show that imperfect randomization breaks games. That's why I asked the way I did - not to prove that it happened or didn't happen, but that it can have an impact on the game,
during the game
. There's too much noise and incomplete information to derive anything about the role X has in Y's game.
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Post Post #181 (isolation #14) » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:53 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 179, Kagami wrote:
In post 166, Mr. Flay wrote:...
But for an individual mod, in an individual game? The fact that Richard MIGHT reroll tells you absolutely nothing about the setup. The fact that I might reroll tells you nothing.
...
Cabd already pointed it out: If I were currently in a game modded by richard, and there was a living player sitting between two flipped scum in the player list, I would consider him nearly cleared. Likewise, if there were a bunch of high prob town in a big bunch, I'd be scumhunting hard among that region of the playerlist.
Good gods, for a bunch of MAFIA players you guys sure are bad at reading comprehension.
In post 163, RichardGHP wrote:Just to be clear, any rerolling is done
BEFORE
signups. I would never change the assignments after that, so it's not like I'm playing favourites, if Jake from State Farm gave that impression.
He's talking about the design phase, NOT while players are involved. That list is likely in a different order. Also just look at his games:

  • Mini 1344: Scum at 10&11.
  • Mini 1149: Scum at 7&8.
  • Mini 1061: Scum at 10&11.
    OMGHEPREFERSTOPUTSCUMATSPOTS10ANDELEBEN!!!!!
Stahp.
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Post Post #183 (isolation #15) » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:10 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

It's also utterly useless information now (he's not running any Mafia games presently), and he's unlikely to follow this 'temptation' exactly in the future... if he ever did, he sounded like he was talking hypothetically to me. To wit:
In post 93, RichardGHP wrote:
In post 92, Cabd wrote:Of course now that you've posted this, if I were one of your players I'd totally use this to clear somebody if two scum flipped on either side of them.
Do so at your peril. It's not like I can't make exceptions to my own rules.
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Post Post #186 (isolation #16) » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:27 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

I'm saying that whether nor not a game is 100% verifiably random is WAY less important than about seventeen other factors that make for a good or bad game. Some of which are mod-based, some of which are player-based.
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Post Post #230 (isolation #17) » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:52 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 229, chamber wrote:
In post 228, quadz08 wrote:(Kison, Mith, Flay)
There are others(from long ago mostly). The group is public.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.php?mode=leaders

To be clear, the only other two members are jeep and MeMe, both long retired.
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Post Post #250 (isolation #18) » Thu May 15, 2014 4:18 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

We really need a way to transfer/share PT ownership.

Game Mods flake, or co-mods need access, or...
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Post Post #252 (isolation #19) » Thu May 15, 2014 4:57 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Doesn't work. More specifically, I cannot add users to the PT list, because I am not the OP.
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Post Post #257 (isolation #20) » Thu May 15, 2014 5:16 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

...but all Modflakes involve the List Mod? So it's zero extra work.
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Post Post #259 (isolation #21) » Thu May 15, 2014 5:24 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 253, zoraster wrote:Okay. Maybe...

1. Change OP to Mr. Flay.
2. Add user to the PT list
3. Change OP user to user

When we were testing I had access to this stuff, but now that it's removed I can't test it out for myself, so sorry if these suggestions don't end up working.
It was a good theory. Even when I am the OP it won't let me add users.
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Post Post #261 (isolation #22) » Thu May 15, 2014 5:31 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

*nod* I get what you're saying, but I know the LMs want to know when somebody flakes, because it affects the experience credit they get, and their ability to sign up for other games (modflakes get a New Game ban as a player, now).
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Post Post #263 (isolation #23) » Thu May 15, 2014 5:35 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 259, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 253, zoraster wrote:Okay. Maybe...

1. Change OP to Mr. Flay.
2. Add user to the PT list
3. Change OP user to user

When we were testing I had access to this stuff, but now that it's removed I can't test it out for myself, so sorry if these suggestions don't end up working.
It was a good theory. Even when I am the OP it won't let me add users.
Actually it's more basic than that; I can't add users to my threads, period. And yes, I'm in a modding group in addition to my admin privs.

Chrome...
will try IE here in a minute
. IE fails as well. Don't have Firefox on this machine.
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Post Post #265 (isolation #24) » Thu May 15, 2014 5:39 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

That's the opposite of a flake.
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Post Post #268 (isolation #25) » Thu May 15, 2014 9:01 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 263, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 259, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 253, zoraster wrote:Okay. Maybe...

1. Change OP to Mr. Flay.
2. Add user to the PT list
3. Change OP user to user

When we were testing I had access to this stuff, but now that it's removed I can't test it out for myself, so sorry if these suggestions don't end up working.
It was a good theory. Even when I am the OP it won't let me add users.
Actually it's more basic than that; I can't add users to my threads, period. And yes, I'm in a modding group in addition to my admin privs.

Chrome...
will try IE here in a minute
. IE fails as well. Don't have Firefox on this machine.
Aha. chamber forgot scuMobile again. ;)
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Post Post #271 (isolation #26) » Wed May 28, 2014 3:28 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Private Threads are not GD. They are for games.
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