Mini 1563 - Vampire: The Masquerade Mafia (Fourth Evening)

[Kagami]

...

I believe the point of 373 is not to deny knowledge that the dayvig occurred, but to explain the slip as "I knew there was a dayvig, but I had forgotten who the target was," which is itself damning, as it seems very unlikely to be true.

But he didn't try to do that. Even his defense doesn't go down that route.

He did, or more specifically that he "missed" the target. It's right there in his single, solitary post that addresses the slip in 255.

What defense?

[Kagami]

EBWOP: 355, not 255.

Vonflare is scum too.

[vonflare]

Vonflare is scum too.

You keep saying that, but what did I do to make you think that?

WHY am I scummy?

[Kagami]

specifics:

264
370
394


general:

-Trying to be chummy/casual in a manner that doesn't feel genuine.
-I get the sense that you want to be a seen as a mediator
-aronis tunnel and pivot to mnemonic is bad; see 370

[Kthxbye]

Vonflare is scum too.

Too? As in both MD and Von are scum buddies? Please explain your thought process on this and the connections linking them as scum buddies.

[Kthxbye]

SG 399
-Null? Not entirely. It COULD go either way, but in conjunction with the sheer amount of questions you're sending out everywhere, it doesn't set as genuine to me, thus the suspicion. I don't know how to make this any more clear. This line of questioning is starting to become circular, so unless you have anything NEW, I'll probably be ignoring you if you try and keep it going.....Bigger fish to fry. I have a feeling you're alignment will become more clear as the game moves forward.

-It's not about liking his answers or not liking them. He's being careful to give as little info as possible and messed up in trying to look town. This much is obvious by his posting. What is the benefit to trying to bleed a stone? I think it's obvious he's scum and we have his reads list to dissect after his flip. I am however expecting 'things', but I don't wanna ruin what I'm looking for by trying to explain it. Wait for it......wait for it......

-Glad you like the explanation....now please vote him....or someone.

[Squirrel Girl]

-Glad you like the explanation....now please vote him....or someone.

I'm trying to sort how I feel about you, then I'll be able to make a better feel for the Mnemonic wagon. I'm frustrated because I feel you're tossing something entirely awkward at me as a case, yet I like some of the work you're doing on Mnemonic (once you finally explained it) and even like your question to Kagami (though I think she's town regardless, but it's a decent angle to explore). The boggle I have is that you're seeming to try to be inscrutable. Like, the MD thing, I did need to bang at you a bit to get the tell expressed (and I'll admit it bugs me how many people leaped at it *prior* to him committing the actual scummy part of the infraction). And you're doing the same with the thing with me - bascially you're telling me that if I was town I'd remember all my questions perfectly, but if I was scum I'd forget about them...and that literally makes no sense to me and seems a wickedly false presumption to make, and I'm really trying to understand how you justify it as functional to yourself, and you're being darn obstinate about just giving a clear answer for some reason - even to the point of calling it circular (when I feel all I'm doing is asking you where the circle ruddy is) and that you desire to abandon the conversation (which also drives me nuts, because it's rude, dismissive, and not very helpful)

So, could you just explain the circle again? Like, seriously?

[Kthxbye]

Von

: how bout a reads list from you pls.

Displaced

: you too. Also, to explain the kat/Aronis question, do you see a connection between the 2 and if so, do you think they are town on town, town on scum, or scum buddies show boating. (mostly referencing their little policy vote tiff thing)

Spy

:

For the love of all that is good please just evaporate Aronis tomorrow.

Unvote, Vote: mmemonic

Does what MD flips matter for Aronis's evaporation? Do you see them as scum buddies? If not, what is the reason for Aronis's evaporation when MD flips scum?

AA

: you have exactly till when I get off work tomorrow morning to produce content or I will place everything on the back burner and join d3x in getting you lynched today.
Strike 1: Loving the flavor yet not knowing your alignment, game specific rules, or anything. Speaking of, what exactly did you love about the flavor if you obviously didn't read any game related content?
Strike 2: 'Figuring it all out' then producing absolutely no content even though you love this flavor.
Strike 3: .....Go ahead and 'forget' to post content or post some unreadable, non-stance-taking, etc content and make it Strike 3.

I give little shits about lynching you regardless of alignment on D1. Does that sound like policy? Sure the hell does, and there's plenty of past game experiences with you to justify it.

_____________________________________
Pre-Vig shot VC: (even though it was only 1 vote different from MOD's posted VC...)

(3)Aronis - SpyreX, displaced, Vonflare
(3)Monkeyman - d3x, squirrel girl, Aronis
(1)MD - AA
(1)kthxbai - kagami
(1)d3x - kthxbai
(1)Squirrel Girl - Katsuki
(1)Vonflare - LLD
(1)Kagami - Monkeyman

Not Voting: MD
_______________________________________

p.edit

:

SG

: that is prolly the most genuine post I've seen from you...and makes me take a step back....

Best I can explain what I'm seeing is that I'm a suspicious freak and see scum everywhere. It's why I hate D1's so much. So much possible scumminess everywhere, so little factual info. As far as being rude, dismissive.... Hi, I'm kthxbye, nice to make your acquaintance.

The way I see scum in a nutshell: They try to look town. Like overly so. So when questions go flying about and someone strikes me as town super early, I actually get very wary. You came out the gate with a Miller claim which is par for being a Miller and being town. You also came out the gate asking questions, ie scumhunting. All in all, you appeared to be very town. Now, when town ask questions, they should actually want the answers in order to develop the read they were looking for by asking the question in the first place. If a question goes unanswered and the asker posts again without calling out the unanswered question, AND the asker is appearing to scumhunt and look super town, I get suspicious and ask myself, is it possible that this person that looks so town in their scumhunting is actually faking it as scum trying to look town? THAT is where the suspicion sets in. And when I get suspicious, it's hard to let go.

Am I probably hypocritical in this in the fact that I probably do the same stuff and don't think twice about it and then go nuts when people suspect me for the same thing I just described? Absolutely, hence my signature.

Please pinpoint the hangup if I'm missing what you are trying to figure out with the above. Your p406.....well....it makes me want to work with you a little bit more. Well, that combine with d3x having a town read on you (assuming that from his willingness to give you Dia). Either way, I think there is scum to be found in Aronis, MD, AA. At least 1, maybe 2, in that group of 3. My other scum suspects can wait till we have some confirmed alignment info.

[Squirrel Girl]

Please pinpoint the hangup if I'm missing what you are trying to figure out with the above.

Can't really pinpoint a hangup if you admit to paranoia and hypocrisy as potential things in your play, because that pretty much covers that.

I can agree about Aronis, MD, and AA.

Do you not have an issue with Kats or Displaced? Or are they just lesser reads on the scale?

[Kthxbye]

I do have issue with both and they are lesser scum reads. Connections are key to sorting them out and they are posting so little content that making those connections is going to be annoying. Kats to a higher degree than displaced atm.

I'm also becoming wary of Spy as he's completely off my radar and I don't like that.

Von's alignment will become clearer as well as we move on. I find myself not disagreeing with the suspicion surrounding him, but I don't like the timing of it either.

LL, Kag, and now you are leaning slightly town to me.

d3x I have as solid town....(you have no idea how odd this is for me...)

[displaced]

kthxbye why such focus on squirrel girl? She was like the 5th player to post. You think scum would roll dice on a miller gambit with more than half the player list yet to post?

Reads

TOWN [kagami, squirrel, d3x, LLD]
NULL+ [Kthxbye, Spyrex]
NULL- [Aronis, Katsuki]
SCUM [Vonflare, Mnemomicdevice, ArcAngel]

I cant really gauge the relationship between Kats/Aronis because Kats is trying really hard to be unreadable. I think Aronmis' policy stance is reasonable, if taken in a vacuum.

[Kthxbye]

What has you reading Spy as Null+?

What do you mean "taken in a vacuum"?

[displaced]

What has you reading Spy as Null+?

His initial push on Aronis

What do you mean "taken in a vacuum"?

If there were nothing else to consider, policy lynching Kats for his playstyle is reasonable

[Kthxbye]

How is it reasonable when he experienced the same play style from kat in a different game where kat was town?

[displaced]

Because the playstyle is a horrorshow?

[ArcAngel9]

i followed readings from last pages.. And i feel Kthx and Squirrel is town vs town. You both need to get over yourselves
mnemom is noob and likely scum.. Scum just throwing him down
And the Scum are LLD & displaced. Go and back and read their posts... nothing make sense and there is no real argument in their content. Especially LLD, She just rubbing statements over peopel with no facts. displaced town, scum and null piles are just connected in anyway.

Rest of them playing around. And D3x, Get your head out properly and see the truth. LLD is scum. Now follow me..

VOTE: LLD

[displaced]

If nothing I had posted made sense dont you think someone else wouldve noticed by now?

[ArcAngel9]

Yeah.. I did. Don't see it.

[displaced]

A player other than yourself, I mean? At least one player has specifically pointed out something I said and said "this makes sense" Directly refuting your above statment

[ArcAngel9]

Explain this!!!

SCUM [Vonflare, Mnemomicdevice, ArcAngel]

[displaced]

Those are the players I think are scum

[ArcAngel9]

Why?

[Kthxbye]

AA:

mnemom is noob and likely scum..

If ^this...

Why

VOTE: LLD

^this?

I ask because there is already a nice little wagon on your MD scum read and I'm not sure anyone but you is reading LL as scum enough to follow you anywhere. Please explain why you are attempting to counter wagon a scum read of yours.

[ArcAngel9]

Spoiler:

Aronis? Shut the fuck up and vote this.

Seriously, not only do I not give a fuck about your policy lynch, if anyone in this game should have been policy lynched long ago, it's you.

Just take your town read, vote the scums, and get this game over with.

Cause you're town, so fuck off.

Yup. I've given my alotment of fucks for this game. And I've noticed recently if that happens, I generally get apathetic.

So I'm fighting my apathy by saying what's on my mind. And what's on my mind is how god fucking awful half this town has been, and how you've all driven me to tears.

But no more. I've caught scum and I'm driving it home.

These^
I don't see any town motiviation in those posts. Arnois is obvious playing mind games here and applying policy lynch label on his wagons. And Lady just towns read him and diverted his vote to her wagon. Either Arnois is too dumb to follow or they could be parters and trying play good scum game. And later Displaced joins and quickly makes his Convenient scum list and keeps the most obvious scums in his town and null list.

[ArcAngel9]

And Kthx, I am not diverting scum wagon. i am town and I am trying to see from different prespective.
mnemo has no real cases and very bad reads. D3x already rushed into monkeys Vig. there is no need to rush another lynch becuz one have some bad cases.
Scum is not dumb, they know how to flip reads.