The Mod Kill

[LyingBrian]

obviously if a player breaks the rules repeatedly, or drops out of a game, they either need to be replaced or mod-killed... my personal opinion is that they should be replaced before mod-killed, but i wanted to get other people's opinions on the matter...

also if you decide to replace a player, how long should you wait before you mod-kill them?.. i personally have been waiting almost a month for a replacement in my mini game... not trying to complain here, i'm just wondering when i should mod-kill, as it's becoming apparent i may need to do that..

also, should i consider the person's role & how it might unbalance the game before i mod-kill them?..

[Dasquian]

You should always make your mod-kill policy based on the general case, otherwise people can read into your chosen course of action ("Oh, he hung on aaaages to replace B when he just modkilled townie A, that must mean B has an important role")

As a general rule I don't think you should mod-kill unless you have to... a player disappearing will inevitably affect the game but replacing them affects the dynamics far less than denying the town a lynch or discussion.

[Thok]

I always include the following rule in my rule set as a precaution in case somebody comes up with a clever way to mess up the game in a way I hadn't considered.

[11] I reserve the right to modkill at my discretion. I don't plan on using this unless something strange happens.

Strangely enough, I've never actually had to use this rule.

That said, you almost never should modkill people just because they need replacment. If necessary, be proactive and try mass PMing people to see if they would be interested in joining your game. Not everybody keeps a constant eye on the replacement thread.

[Kelly Chen]

Normally modkilling is a punishment for something that is probably akin to cheating. In that case "if a player breaks the rules repeatedly" it may not be sufficiently punitive to replace that player.

Modkilling vacant positions is an unfortunate thing to have to do. And sometimes you can't apply this solution uniformly without wiping out most the scum (so if you do it at all, players might be able to guess what it means when you don't do it).

I'm happier to modkill flakers who are still playing on the site.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, I don't really think modkilling should be used for inactivity, as a general rule.

On the other hand, modkilling as a response to player cheating is fair, as otherwise the side that cheated gets an advantage even if the player who cheated gets replaced. For example, if you break the rules and quote enough of your PM so as to make you a confirmed innocent, that's unfair to the mafia, and replacing you dosn't solve that problem as your replacement is now a confirmed innocent; the only way to maintain balance at that point is to modkill the player who claimed. I'm very clear about that in my rules when I mod; this is always one of my rules, even in game where it's not really relevent:

Do not quote any PM's from the mod. Don't try to get around this rule by hinting at how many words were in the mod's PM to you, or what the first word of it was, or that the mod misspelled the fourth word in your PM, or by finding any other way to reveal the exact phrasing of the PM the mod sent you. This is a modkillable offense.

Because it really annoys me when mods let people get away with "Oh, I'm not going to quote my townie PM, but the 3'rd word is "town", the 7th's word is "purple", and the 14'th word is "microscopic". And everyone else says "Ok, he's a townie". I know there's other ways of dealing with it, like giving the town PM in the first mod post, but I also think that anything like that should ALWAYS be covered under the "quoting the mod's pm's" rule.

[StallingChamp]

Yeah... In McDonald's Mafia, I managed to nail a scum, and confirm an innocent based on wording of the PM. At the time, I didn't consider it against the rules to ask DoS (Mafia) whether his claimed role (customer) was "townie, a customer" or "Customer, a townie", which he got wrong.

Should I have been mod-killed for that?

[Thesp]

I only agree with modkilling when they abandon their games. Then, killing mods is not only acceptable, it is honorable.

[Mr. Flay]

I don't agree with modkilling for inactivity (unless that's a rule of the game, like Don't Be Stupid or Verbose, of course), but after a month, I'd be sorely tempted to just kill the role, too. I've never taken more than a week, though; are you asking on scumchat or PMing people?

@ Thesp:

Yeah... In McDonald's Mafia, I managed to nail a scum, and confirm an innocent based on wording of the PM. At the time, I didn't consider it against the rules to ask DoS (Mafia) whether his claimed role (customer) was "townie, a customer" or "Customer, a townie", which he got wrong.

Should I have been mod-killed for that?

I would have, yes. You were using extra-game information (the exact wording) to confirm the role, which wouldn't have been possible if the role had been given to you verbally in a face-to-face game.

Of course, I almost always* vary the wording/syntax of my role PMs to avoid this, but yes, I would consider that quoting the mod.

* Except when I don't.

[the silent speaker]

Modkilling for inactivity shouldn't happen until after the first ten replacements, IMO. Sadly, in Simpsons Mafia way back when, I did replace ten people and the game kept being paralyzed, so I started modkilling. I found it didn't really help; I ended up modkilling eight for gross inactivity. (I think no posts in a month is sufficient to qualify under "gross inactivity"; I don't believe I was abusing my power. Difficulty in finding replacements increases exponentially with the number of replacements you have to find, and even if you succeed, it gets to the point where you are essentially moderating a different game with the same mechanics. When everyone is a replacement, is Day 1 of any use?)

[xyzzy]

I've always gone with the policy of, "If your partner doesn't show up, well, sucks to be on your team."

I like the type of forum where people have the courtesy to tell you that something's come up and they need to be replaced... a magical dream forum that only sometimes exist, and never in one 100% devoted to Mafia...

But inactivity is usually a violation of my rules, so perhaps I'm too lenient...

(Of course, some crowds will kill you if you're quiet simply because the loud types are better at finding scum...)

[Yosarian2]

Yeah... In McDonald's Mafia, I managed to nail a scum, and confirm an innocent based on wording of the PM. At the time, I didn't consider it against the rules to ask DoS (Mafia) whether his claimed role (customer) was "townie, a customer" or "Customer, a townie", which he got wrong.

Should I have been mod-killed for that?

Yeah. Well, either that, or I would have announced that if he answered that question he would be modkilled.

[Glork]

I always include the following rule in my rule set as a precaution in case somebody comes up with a clever way to mess up the game in a way I hadn't considered.

[11] I reserve the right to modkill at my discretion. I don't plan on using this unless something strange happens.

Strangely enough, I've never actually had to use this rule.

You have, however, modkilled a player for being unable to count.

[IH]

Glork, why are j00 female?

I'm against modkilling instead of replacing, unless you can't find a replacement on the site you're at.

Here though, I'm pretty sure you can find a replacement.

[xyzzy]

Here though, I'm pretty sure you can find a replacement.

So going in mah siggeh!

...Erm.

[Dr. Blackstrike]

Personally, I'm against modkilling except for cheating. I've never had to modkill anyone, except once when a site admin told me he'd caught to players cheating. (Illegal out-of-game communication)

I don't think it's very good to modkill instead of replace; seems like you're just being lazy and not getting a replacements.

Oh, and:

I only agree with modkilling when they abandon their games. Then, killing mods is not only acceptable, it is honorable.

QFT

(LOL)

/netspeak

[Kelly Chen]

Well I don't think anyone uses modkills as their first choice.