Mini 1581--The Final Radiant Tales...(Fin)

[Bert]

Confirm

[Bert]

Who's untouchable

[Bert]

I refuse to participate in RVS until we send Varsoon back to God World

[Bert]

VOTE: KingdomAces

Sentimental reasons, and testing something.

[Bert]

Votecount please?

[Bert]

I'm worried that I'm going to get tunneled on solely because of things that I do every game.

Just like I have been the last three or four games I've played. I could give you links if you really want them. But seriously, it happens every single game I play, and I'm sick of it.

This is the first time you've brought it up during RVS.

[Bert]

Want to talk about what you're testing, or wait for the vote count?

I apparently am a double voter only on particular days, but I have no idea which days.

[Bert]

Bert, why are you claiming after I explicitly said not to unless you had a specific reason?

double voter is just one ability, not a full claim or role? this is a bastard game, the game will be whack

[Bert]

I'm just annoyed at the reason behind it.

There isn't a reason behind it

UNVOTE:

[Bert]

But if you noticed some things worth talking about I'm all ears.

VOTE: Mirhawk

Nothing worth talking about?

Hahahaha

[Bert]

Vote Count 1.3

Good morning, Chrono!

morph the cat(1):

gameplay506

Bert(0):

KingdomAces(5)

: Mirhawk,

Bert,

Oversoul, Rubicon, ZZZX

MafiaSSK(0):

Bulbazak(0):

Varsoon(1):

Bulbazak

Mirhawk(1):

Bert

Lying Scum(0):

snscompt1(0):

Oversoul(0):

Rubicon(0):

ZZZX(2):

snscompt1, MafiaSSK

gameplay506(0):

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(4):

morph the cat, Varsoon, Lying Scum , KingdomAces

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

(expired on 2014-06-27 12:00:00)

[Bert]

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:

VOTE: morph the cat
VOTE: morph the cat

sorry, trolling fairy moments I have to get out of the way

I have waited so long to fairy troll

bahahahahaha

[Bert]

Ugh.

Kill me!

[Bert]

VOTE: Natirasha

Lynch this grandiose manipulator.

[Bert]

Vote Count 1.4

ERROR ERROR ERROR

morph the cat(1):

gameplay506

Bert(0):

KingdomAces(4)

: Mirhawk, Bert, Oversoul, ZZZX

MafiaSSK(0):

Bulbazak(0):

Varsoon(1):

Bulbazak

Mirhawk(2):

Bert, Rubicon

Lying Scum(0):

snscompt1(0):

Oversoul(0):

Rubicon(0):

ZZZX(2):

snscompt1, MafiaSSK

gameplay506(0):

No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(4):

morph the cat, Varsoon, Lying Scum , KingdomAces

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.

(expired on 2014-06-27 12:00:00)

Mod's a lying troll.

Lynch it, hurry up.

VOTE: Natirasha

VOTE: Natirasha

[Bert]

Bert is generally energetic no matter what, but I really don't see anything meaningful in his play so far either. So far the only topics he's talked about has been his role and me. Trying to figure out unknown vote mechanics when the mod is continually screwing up the VC kind of makes things weird, and I'm not entirely sure about where his trajectory on me is coming from.

You're good enough such that I doubt I could catch you when you draw scum.

[Bert]

If bert plays a cheerful game as town, then he likely also plays a cheerful game as scum.

thanks for slyly encouraging suspicion on me at the most basic level! I do admit that having ETL locked in on a townread on me already definitely makes me suspicious as these townreads on me lack some kind of clarity about my play which I think is 'unknown' so far.

I'm mostly inclined to believe it's not alignment-indicative.

I think most of us have exhausted our early KA-read. This dialogue happens sometimes and it doesn't mean KA should be let off the hook.

[Bert]

So far the only topics he's talked about has been his role and me.

I'd much prefer you not muddle other people's reads on you with your lack of confidence! Let loose and just play. I do agree that my play has been a high density of setup stuff, but I don't think I've been thaaaaaaaaaat fluffy

I don't think KA's play is dishonest at all so far, although I would appreciate if he narrowed down a list of scumspects now!

Im caring yet sarcastic. What can I say.

"I'm scum, plz lynch me next?"

Also what happened with Nati's vote count? What was the big problem with it? Mind somebody explaining because I actually didn't understand what happened.

very innocent, sell

-I like it how Oversoul is making some sweet jumps from one wagon to another.
-Kingdom seems a little bit too worried about the wagon on him.
-Bert's claim was interesting. Gonna keep an eye there.

- this player is too tired to read further. You haven't done well producing reactions when asked questions. This post seems kind of unsettled. Who do you suspect and why?

VOTE: gameplay

[Bert]

I think most of us have exhausted our early KA-read. This dialogue happens sometimes and it doesn't mean KA should be let off the hook.

I think he has a good chance of being scum. Where do you stand on it?

ETL

You're [KA] good enough such that I doubt I could catch you when you draw scum.

[Bert]

What words have I put into your mouth? I'm pretty sure that I made a serious inquiry as to why you think scum bert would be incompetent enough as to not try and act like town bert.

your mercurial opinion that I can perfect my "competent" scumgame to where tone is irrelevant seems peculiar

On a sidenote, I will also say that ETL-ffery disputes/misinterpretations leave a sour taste in my mouth, but I don't see either coming from a scum-mindset at all...

ZZZX, your post and cover-up, it was how you didn't brush it off (making a wrong post), but instead visibly freaked out with "OMG <insert immediate reaction as if you have something to hide"

[Bert]

That being said, In berts most recent post as he basically implies that he cant be scum because his scum game isn't this good. Which would be fine, except I think he was actually being serious.

I questioned the quick townreads on myself:

I do admit that having ETL locked in on a townread on me already definitely makes me suspicious as these townreads on me lack some kind of clarity about my play which I think is 'unknown' so far.

your mercurial opinion that I can perfect my "competent" scumgame to where tone is irrelevant seems peculiar

This is the quote you are referring to. ^ Your posts seem to be for the purpose of "appearing town" with your questions, but without enforcing why you asked your questions in the first place. That doesn't stand you in good stead with the rest of town. Your posts have been reactions or unloaded questions, which so far doesn't seem useful in the long run.

What makes me nervous is why you think I'm worthy of a vote for discussing my meta. I did not bring it up.

[Bert]

If you look again, I did not say I "can't be scum since my scumgame isn't this good." I said expecting me to be flawless as scum is unreasonable.

[Bert]

I cleaaaaarly see that as a scum slip. Everyone should get back on that wagon.

VOTE: sns

[Bert]

Why is no one bandwagoning?

VOTE: overly things

[Bert]

Overly things indirectly implied he wanted some excitement aka bandwagoning, it's like a kid wanting his parents to instill some moral values. I obliged!!!

[Bert]

As for voting trends and reasons, KA has yet to hang onto a scumread yet. Most towntells KA has spotted are easy straws to grasp at. It is troubling that KA has yet to give adequate (scum)reads. Also, notice that most of KA's conversation starters have lead to nowhere.

I'm convinced KA's early early entrance into this game was just decoration, and was pre-planned going into this game.

VOTE: KingdomAces

[Bert]

stop flavor fishing, Guyitt

[Bert]

Wth

[Bert]

But I love you

Wth

[Bert]

what's the harm in flavor claiming? ill go first!

pick me. pick me. also guyitt stop active lurking

[Bert]

BAITEN KAITOS

whatever that is. murder me.

[Bert]

I looked and mine is arbitrary and this game is bastard

No harm no foul

[Bert]

Bulba I'm kalas

Like I said this is totally bogus looking stuff

[Bert]

Bert, you are correct in saying that my entrance in the game was pre-planned, that's what I've been trying to say. Also, when is the last time you remember me ever having a scumread? That was the exact point I was trying to make by saying all of that in the first place. If you really need a scumread though, Mirhawk is the person I am currently most suspicious of, though Arsehole is working their way up
Bulba, I am wanting to participate in the game, but it turns out that now isn't exactly the best time for this game to have happened, so I'm having trouble participating in general.

Arsehole, this is a Nati game. One of Nati's main goals when designing games is making sure that it can't be broken by a flavor claim, so at this point in time claiming has a higher chance of helping the scum than helping town. Also the flavor for this game is various JRPG's, with the title of the game being a reference to six different games/series.

Strangely you spent a chunk of time breaking the Ace Attorney game.

[Bert]

And I failed, so I don't see your point.

It broke the game, regardless of outcome.

[Bert]

My readings that require no afterthought, rather they are spewed.

I think KA is scum. I think gameplay is lean-scum. I think ETL *might* be scum.

I think Lady Ffery is town. Mirhawk might actually be town. Who knows about IA.

Oversoul is null. Rubicon is null. Bulba *seems* town. That's all I have for now. A lot of other mehs (read: Varsoon, ZZZX (pointless slip that seems unrelated to this game)) that aren't really worth talking about.

So <ETL, KA, gameplay>

[Bert]

I'm most confident in a KA lynch.

[Bert]

You're posting on the wrong acc. Sober up, love!

[Bert]

that's your bias. don't be opaque! i believe those ppl are good candidates for scrutiny

[Bert]

is laike you dont evenradngin the thread....

you need more glances, i dont understand why you are legitimizing KA's play as town

[Bert]

Varsoon just volunteered to be his team's martyr.

[Bert]

Nice save, furry.

[Bert]

Oh and Bert's scum.

I feel your sense of general resignation when you say this each time. so cute but transparent!

He seems pretty calm and logical,

which is why I have trouble imagining that he was unable to discern the reason I was questioning him on his bert read.

there was no analysis to broach, baby

[Bert]

Nice try, but Cabd is fully confident in his ability to beat town-me with a red role PM

You lie like a rug as scum too, don't give them that!

[Bert]

Nice save, furry.

No offense to that community, but morph is more of a BDSM dom.

Oh, dominance. That must be why ETL is so willing to flip a coin about whether to lynch you because you're so dominant as scum.

Do you think he's actually looking for scum? I don't.

He's shooting for Aces because it takes very little work to justify and he likely won't be called on it.

He also should have followed his points on me with a vote. Instead he placed another joke vote.

I have three more games of experience with KA than you do, and happen to have played in his last 3 games on this site, spanning almost a year now. I see patterns that support the idea KA is scum.

I could have voted you, but my brain is focused on who should be lynched. If I was sold on you as scum, I would have voted you and come forward with that.

[Bert]

SAY MY NAME, VARLET

FINAGLE A BAGEL. YOU'VE BEEN SERVED.

[Bert]

What exactly is there to talk about?

I have alts. End of story. However, I think you are just insulted that I called you lynch bait, which actually makes me feel better about you. I think scum would be more likely to take the lynch bait title and roll with it, than to fight it.

This doesn't make me feel better about you making stuff up considering no one has pushed or even mentioned me at all so far.


Again, I have not made anything up. You need to stop saying that like it's a fact. You think it sounds fake, ok, then that's what you think. That doesn't mean it actually is. And I don't think you get what I meant at all.

If I think X is an easy mark, I'm going to be looking for the people who are opportunistically going for an easy lynch. It helps me sort other people, and sharing my insight might help others sort other people as well.

Does that mean that X is already being pushed? No.... I never said it did and the statement isn't dependent on that in any way.

ETL

It seems to me like you are really trying to poke holes in my reads only because I'm not sure about you yet. The defensiveness at this point, especially with a null read, is a little overblown if you ask me.

You didn't even bother to ask me for any additional details, or press me for more reasoning. If you thought it was fake, this would seem the logical action to follow, but instead you just tried to discredit the entire thing. Why?

And then.. weird appeal to Mirhawk.. that is really.. very strange

Address these please, Rubicon. And yes, that includes both your jester comment and now your assertion that I'm an SK (lol).

[Bert]

You mean Oversoul right? because that's who you voted.

There is no super scent of you reading into things 'not' literally, as evidenced by this question. My vote on Oversoul was a snarky response to his plead for a bandwagon.

I place my votes for my own reasons, and right now it goes to Rubicon for his scummy half-catch-up posts and how little connection his reads seem to have with the gamestate. His phrasing against ETL was strange, and he's glossing over our points addressed to him.

[Bert]

VOTE: Rubicon

[Bert]

I'll explain why I see you as an SK later and after I finish reading, but for now, your counter-vote on me makes me feel damn good about the world.

Oh, lol, now you bail when asked to actually say plainly why you think I'm an SK. *shakes head*

The only reasons I can think of as to why you if town might think I'm an SK are:

(1) Eagerness to claim suggests not being scared of a NK. I'm actually not scared to claim since I'm not a super special special. Weaker roles = me not afraid to dare scum to NK me. If I were something really powerful, like a cop or something, I wouldn't claim like this, no.

Why does my counter-vote on you make you feel so good? If you're thinking I'm an SK, that means you think I'm scumhunting, so what's bad about my vote on you?

(2) something about my flavor?

Which is it.

[Bert]

Even in the case of (1), why SK over mafia?

[Bert]

I'm considering you a possible SK because I played a Natirasha-reviewed game on another site a few months ago where the SK had a double-voter power. This being a pure Natirasha setup, I'm not going to try to outguess him about whether the power is SK here, but I do know that he considers it a reasonable SK power, and your reaction here is weird.

My double vote doesn't work today. You *are* trying to outguess him, and I can do more than "double vote." I can also talk to the dead every night - can pick a different one each night. Bulba was right about the"guardian spirit" ability - which is what the double vote is. Like I said, unless I have some sort of investigative/protective power in such a bastard/themed game, then I always dare scum to NK me. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

Okay nevermind, too busy fuming to actually say anything reasonable right now.

I am definitely thinking that Bert is doing too much joking around right now, and I'm going to have to go through the games I've played with him before on this, but I think that's something he does more as scum than as town.

I hope fuming isn't related to this game.

While it's no longer relevant, my only scum games with you are Dark Age of the Law and serrapaladin's Mini 1462 where I provided next-to-zero meaningful discussion/content. Dark Age, I was in a hydra where Nacho could carry, and 1462 was a year ago. Where have I been joking a lot in this game? I keep it light in parts, and in some parts serious. This is not a self-meta defense, this is saying that you are way off-base and are adding onto my suspicion that you're scum. I can't see how you as town would draw such conclusions.

Also, is your vote on ETL because she was town in Serra's game when I was scum, and thus in your opinion should be scumreading me?

VOTE: KingdomAces

This vote is not moving again.

[Bert]

ETA: tl;dr the way you came about to a semi-read on me - I can't see any town motivation - "joking more than I vaguely remember (when I've been mostly serious)" instead of commenting on my actual play.

Wait, Guyett was on the scumteam for Dark Age of the Law. He REALLY should know better than this.
VOTE: Interdimensional Arsehole

Know better about me as scum?

I am definitely thinking that Bert is doing too much joking around right now, and I'm going to have to go through the games I've played with him before on this, but I think that's something he does more as scum than as town.

Wait, Guyett was on the scumteam for Dark Age of the Law. He REALLY should know better than this.
VOTE: Interdimensional Arsehole

Wait a minute! Look at the time stamps. In SIX minutes, you went from "I need to double check, but Bert might be scum" to "woah Guyett was in Dark Age and knows better about Bert than this." How do you arrive at such a swift conclusion without some type of confirmation bias?

[Bert]

Also, you understand that Ffery was also in Dark Age, too, right? Cabd was also a backup mod, oh and ETL was in that game too as Drunken Lies. This reeks of you naming *just* Guyett to fit your agenda.

[Bert]

SHUT UP ABOUT FLAVOR CLAIMS ALREADY!

Scum do have believable fakeclaims, or else the game wouldn't have gotten past the review phase, and scum should have no problems locking into something. Heck, in Dark Age of the Law, the scum fakeclaims were the exact same flavor that their actual role was in the first place. At the very least, flavor claims WILL cause scum to start narrowing down PRs, and will do absolutely nothing for town.

OK, I just checked AA and I incorrectly recalled that you started breaking the game with the flavor/role full claims. However,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5503553

I notice how much more tactfully you disagreed with those that wanted to massclaim, e.g.,

"And no to the flavor claim. Something tells me that all it will end up doing is outing the PR's. Just look at the flips so far: PhoenixPR and Lotta/Oldbag VT's. If we are doing a flavor claim, then we might as well fullclaim, since we might as well be giving the same information to the scum. Now is also way too early for a fullclaim."

" whereas here you seem *extremely* jumpy/paranoid whenever we suggest flavor claims. Notice post #1148 in that game as well, where it's

"I don't understand Edgeworth being a hider flavorwise. Also mod WIFOM, but I don't think that both Marquis and Kalimar would be town, because that would mean that all of the non-Manfred prosecutors would be in the game and town, which doesn't seem right to me. There seems to be far too many PR's at present, and a large portion of them are confirmable in one way or another. Because of that, I think we should be focusing on the non-Mac VTs for today. That leaves just geists/Kalimar/Slimer, though myself should probably also be included in that list for everyone else also."

[Bert]

I was just thinking that Bulba must know about Baten Kaitos (sp?) and deciphered my ability! He seemed knowledgeable in suggesting that I'm Great Mizuti (sp?)

[Bert]

AS I have mentioned earlier, this locks scum into a position, and forces them to come up with a fakeclaim that fits the nameclaim. also, other benefits. I don't understand the enormous resistance I'm getting here for this

Nat gave fakeclaims in past games, I believe.

My claim was careless, but too late now.

IA might be super aggressive shos/Guyett scum, too tired to think about this especially on mobile.

Tomorrow.

[Bert]

I'm going to regret this post tomorrow.

IA is either super powerful PR trying to avoid NK by being super scummy, or is scum. That would explain all the rolefish tactics this far

I expect a "Bert's rolefishing and scum"

I believe Rubicon is more likely scum than mirhawk. KA's last post was much better sounding, but not alignment indicative.

[Bert]

I Claim Town

for theory discussion, ffery?

[Bert]

I have literally no familiarity with the apparent flavor this game. I actually lucked out playing the game my character was from but yeah.

I don't play any games, lol.

Ugh I am so bored and I don't know shit about this game :@@@@@@@@@@@

VOTE: Bulbazak because I didn't actually like his read on Bert and especially the reasoning for it.

That's a false scumtell IMO. If I told you how many times I've heard scum go "I'm bored" and prod-dodge, I'd be a very rich guy. You seem reluctant (to post) here, which is scummy.

I honestly can't believe you thought that was a real claim. why the fuck would I do such a thing. that was a sarcastic effort, ya know, after I've been screaming POWER MADNESS, it shoulda been obvious. you take the mini hole I made in the ground and poked it with a stick, and you were the only true scumread earlier, I'll gladly OMGUS you

well, he misinterpreted my vote on overly things as a serious vote, so....

Seems on this site, fishing on this site is supposed to help scum, that seems to be the up-to-date perspective. MY BAD!

[Bert]

Honestly the best advice someone ever gave me long ago about reading lurkers is to analyze their content to vote ratio. People who are out of date will likely make poor votes. Scum lurkers are probably going to have a high content to vote ratio because they don't want to appear vote hoppy. A town lurker most likely DGAF and will vote often. In my experience, this advice is fairly good for sussing out scum/town lurkers. Plus vigs and all.

this is redeeming ++

I'll expand upon this later but giving people room (or rope) to lynch themselves with is a fairly progressive town thing to do.

?

VOTE: Gameplay

[Bert]

Shos is blatantly being scummy for a reason. I don't know what that reason is yet.

[Bert]

We are voting you in part because of Cabd's read of sns. He was our strongest scum read while he was in the game.

And Cabd doesn't think the way he replaced out fit sns' townplay from the 6prizes site.

Somehow I missed that part. Yeah.....sheeping this, hop on guys and girls

VOTE: IA

[Bert]

L-1

shos time to do your jilted lover impressions from meme <3

[Bert]

Yo guys I'm pretty sure ETL's a gal.

[Bert]

Well, ETL has a pattern of reading me the opposite of my alignment, so I'm not surprised at all.

[Bert]

I'll have a lot of time tomorrow morning/afternoon to attend to this properly. Neither of the suggestions of "wow this wagon is off because there's not suitable counterwagon" are so off-kilter.

[Bert]

How have my last posts been horrific, in contrast to my first half of posts? That's the opposite opinion that Mirhawk and several others have professed.

[Bert]

Lol OK. Bye. You hydra slipped for the 10000th time btw.

[Bert]

How has anything been BS?

[Bert]

KA has not done anything strongly scummy. Any scum reads on him at this point should not have this kind of strength without some supporting evidence.

I gave my reasons about KA, and quite a few others agreed. Also, being noncommittal at this stage of Day 1-crapshoot, is not a scumtell.

Gameplay506 is extremely, extremely town. Why is he even here? And "ETL *might* be scum"? I have enough content in this game for you to make up your mind.

You think gameplay is extremely town. I don't. Neither do a few others. Don't let your opinion make you tell others they are scummy for having wrong reads in your biased opinion. Everyone is biased.

Also, you have enough content for me to make up my mind? I do not have a history of reading you correctly, I do not have any past games where I was opposite alignment from you (outside of my own scumgame 1 year ago), and you are not easy to read for me. You're the one with the "scummy for best mafia performance" so "I'm easy to read, you've played with me before" doesn't cut it, sorry.

you're implying that "since you're [Bert] reading me incorrectly, that's scummy"

[Bert]

@ETL: Why is gameplay extremely, extremely town? Why is KingdomAces extremely town?

[Bert]

Yeah, this is really terrible. It's so terrible a part of me actually thinks you might be town for it. I don't see scum pushing such an impossible team.

Again, it's impossible in *your* mind. Not all minds think alike.

All 3 of those people are very town. What is wrong with you? I am seriously questioning my read on you!

Bias. I won't say confirmation, because I'm not sure what to make of your tunnel. Why aren't you voting me, by the way? You've made a "case," and I'm the only one you've pushed. Now that is actually strange.

[Bert]

Instead of "look, this is why X and Y are town," you go with the hostile "wow, this is terrible, they are really town" without explaining why - it's all uncorroborated, that's what so frustrating. Exploring scenarios that might happen (possible scumteams) that you don't agree with doesn't mean "scummy."

People with nothing to hide don't have to use intimidating questions that are half-defensive. That said, this doesn't seem like typical scum behavior.

I was expecting "build a case on them-town, move on," but transparency isn't your strongest suit it seems. Essentially, your "townreads" all seem to have some uncorroborated evidence.

[Bert]

This is the worst wagon I have ever seen.... what the hell...

Cabd's meta through resources outweighs traditional reasoning

I'm pushing you because your lack of attention is annoying me. I'm all but convinced of your alignment at this point, and feel I was correct in my initial read of you despite your bad play. I need my team mates to be on top of things.

Is this Beli? If you think my play has been running around in clueless circle, my response is I've been as attentive as I reasonably expect myself to be without inside game knowledge.

I just don't agree that the shos wagon is ridiculous, and I'm surprised you all seem incredulous that it's the main wagon. Also, I'm surprised that the one thing I feel I've done that is the most scummy is the pre-emptive claiming. In Serra's game, my pre-emptive claim tipped KA off immediately and she never let go of his/her scumread on me. Here, it's almost negligence how KA just let my claim slip away and didn't comment to me about it considering our history.

[Bert]

Hi ETL, blast from the psat:

ETL: "I liked nacho for a while. If he's town or scum, I don't know, but the thread vomit is makes me want to vote for that alone."

^that was in response to my thread vomit in 1462.

[Bert]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5055442

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5052066

I also notice how ETL's drunkposting there was much more coherent. Like I said, I have limited (zero) past game experience in games with ETL where I was NOT scum.

Anyway i'm drinkin and playing trivia and just checking in. I'm not scum. The fact that rach immediately turned around on me should tell you something. She finds me a threat and she should. Several others were on her wagon too, not just me. Omgus votes, to me, are pretty town but usually when its directed at anyone saying they are scum. She didnt do that. She pointed only at me. There was nothing significant about the timing. I was unwilling to hammer due to the length of the game at time. But of those here she's my top scum read and i'm not going to compromise for someone i've got nothing on. Way behind her is mac and behind him is dp. Mac is nowhere to be seen. That doesnt tell me anything. I guarantee we'll only see one post from him this weekend. I was scum with him last game and it was like pulling teeth to get him to post. I dont know if thats a scum tell or not.

/drunkpost

[Bert]

ETA: Botched spoiler tags...I CTRL+V'ed an ETL post from a past game.

[Bert]

I thought about this game some tonight, and I don't fear being blasted for having random noncommittal reads or lack of reasoning. I make a post once in a while to show where I am at. This is where I'm at.

SCUM

gameplay
KA

WAFFLING LEAN SCUM

ETL - I was about to pronounce a townread earlier today, but tonight started thinking scum after the last responses. Now I'm in between, but I really really really want to say scum.

NULL

Oversoul - feels *fine* which isn't enough at this point
IA - I don't know what their motive is right now

LURKERS

SSK
Varsoon

NULL-TOWN

Rubicon - I changed my mind
Bulbazak

LEAN TOWN

Mirhawk - See Rubicon
Ffery - I think.

[Bert]

Your guess is as good as mine. Their recap didn't give me much to go off.

UNVOTE:

I am so noncommittal about the ETL read, their last post about how they think they are easy sounds town and makes me lean town again, but they are so manipulative as scum that it could be written by scum-them. UGH I hate this.

VOTE: gameplay

[Bert]

ETA: I also did look at ZZZX and yeah their play was null too.

[Bert]

He disappeared with an excuse of "I don't know what I'm doing anymore" and is lurking? More likely to be apathetic scum not wanting to put in effort.

[Bert]

For starters: Why so disinterested?

More after zzzs

[Bert]

Bert, where did your double vote go? If the answer is that Nati just forgot, can both votes be on the same person?

I apparently am a double voter only on particular days, but I have no idea which days.

[Bert]

day phases

[Bert]

Nat implied he just counts really carelessly for VC's, but I can't tell if he was being serious or being a bastard mod. Lol.

[Bert]

P-edit: I have no idea. It's a passive ability.

[Bert]

ETL you suck in hydra

Really? I didn't notice.

VOTE: bulbazak

? y u vote bubblicious

[Bert]

Hi. I am awesome and replaced in.

Spoiler:

[Bert]

Gameplay honestly. I felt like he was taking pot shots at people earlier in the game and realized it was a bad idea.

Put your vote back on gameplay, please. Shadoweh can always request a DL extension if Nat doesn't grant us one with the replacement coming in. Time is more flexible than it would be without the replacement and potential extension.

[Bert]

Is that a real thing? Damn Nati is bastard.

IA is EspeciallyFullOfTheLies

They've soft/hardclaimed 100000 things

[Bert]

What Bert?

gameplay's probably lurkerscum and i feel good about it

[Bert]

Nnnnngh... oh man.. I am so hung over..
I hope I didn't do anything crazy last night like replace into a mafia ga-OH SHIT

I guess I should reread this thing. On the plus side I'm not a voyeur so I'm happy. There's kind of one day left and half the people aren't voting, were you guys planning to lynch today or are we testing out Stabsinthe's awesome strategy?

SHADOWEH

AY

WHY?????????????

long time no

quarreling

see outside Skype

[Bert]

I don't even know what type of relational tells Gameplay would give at this point.

I don't even know what type of relational tells Oversoul would give at this point.

[Bert]

I kind of don't want an extension though because you guys are p much wasting time as is and a night would have cool role-related shenanigans to look at instead of cases based on trolling and tells. You want to lynch a lurker, that's pretty cooo? I'd be alright with it, just looking over gameplay's iso seems like he's more bored and he did make an effort to respond and give reads about people in post 264. Surprised he hasn't replaced out yet, think he's new?

but if there's an extension, that means you can read us stories?

[Bert]

your posts are so timid so far, Shadoweh, can we unleash the real Shadoweh?

[Bert]

Willing to choose between gameplay and IA only.

Ffery I would like to discuss ETL.

The third is the toughest, heck getting any of them right is.

[Bert]

@gameplay: reads please, every post of yours is defending yourself! how about some offense

and your excuse that there are far bigger lurkers, and therefore you shouldn't be lynched, is really, really, really uncool!

[Bert]

You're using your "claim" as a crutch too instead of doing other things. :/

Ffery, do you think Bulbalicious is scum or no?

[Bert]

Can't discuss ETL in this game without discussing Beli.

Discuss Beli? I don't think I've played with Beli before, and has he shown up other than to say SAY MY MANE, VARLET?

[Bert]

Solution: sign up as scumfduck. I forgot that's beli and u

Omw to watch ger usa at bww

Anyone who votes game gets called null or null scum.

My content will lack for this week but I'll vote IA at DL if needed. Sheeping Cabd's read.

Even Bulba in a sheeping of ffery's read. I should put in more effort but I haven't since a week ago. Long days too long

Later. /mobile

[Bert]

Scumfuck was renamed because chiclets.

Considering all the names and language out there nowadays, yours was just fine IMO

Smh

Haters gon hate

[Bert]

Even IA's is more provocative lolz

[Bert]

Why are people voting Bulbalicious

[Bert]

VOTE: Interdimensional Arsehole

Guys, just end this day (and the accompanying shouting matches).

[Bert]

There's really no reason to not be voting right now.

[Bert]

no you are making me nervous with your not voting any of your scumreads

[Bert]

and you all but called bulba but leaned scum, didnt vote him

called IA your best option based on the read on sns's replaceout, still didnt vote them.

???

didnt discuss ETL and made comments about Beli whom I don't know, and then that was that.

[Bert]

please dont,

i just dont like being concerned about you because i dont read you well, period. might as well not distract you

[Bert]

like, being concerned about you and waiting for you to actually place a vote or commit somewhere is about as exciting as watching paint dry

so, i have sat on my hands until 20 hours remaining

[Bert]

i just want to get a flip and move on at this point, we've had extensions and all kinds of stuff already.

such a drag.......

[Bert]

Do you have questions about my LS read?

do you feel like they are scum? yes or no or maybe?

i also dont want to end the day at deadline, i want time for someone to be "dead" before then before the thread locks, so i can see if i can submit "during the day" and talk to that dead person at night if he/she flips town. its worth a shot

[Bert]

Cabd's V/LA.....there's no guarantee he shows up

[Bert]

Hoe nany voyrs fo we havre?

u dead

[Bert]

OK I'll distract myself and let the day play out then instead of spamming then. Soz.

[Bert]

So there's a lot of suspicion on Bulba

I really don't understand it

but I'm going to not listen to any of my feelings, and vote with the crowd of suspicion which is terrible

so

VOTE: Bulba

Now I'm going to try to avoid this thread until DL so I don't distract.

hate, hate, hate, hate, hate waiting last-minute for DL's.

[Bert]

and there's almost a zero chance of a BC wagon actually going through today

[Bert]

I understand.

I'm actually really jittery if you haven't noticed (you have), and as a result I'm on site here more often (sigh bear with me). I'm several weeks into weaning down from my migraine med of several years, and taking all kinds of supplements/pharmacy stuff to minimize side effects and wait for this all to get out of my system. Lol! friggin prescription pills

[Bert]

VOTE: IA

[Bert]

EBWOP:

you both are cool nerds

[Bert]

omw to library.

(expired on 2014-06-27 12:00:00)

[Bert]

We're Ivan from the golden sun (whatever that means). We are a Heroic Telepath which in mafia terms means we're a town name cop.... so basically a flavour cop.

As may people have said their flavour is directly linked to their role (hence some peoples hesitancy to flavour claim) so in this game we are effectively a proper cop I guess

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakeclaim

jk. it does make sense though with all the rolefishing

VOTE: Bulba

sorry bulbalicious bye only alternative, i hope theyre right about u lol b/c i dont feel good

no choice

L-2

[Bert]

bulba, claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaim

[Bert]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=25

i just looked and nat asked us to give him a role and name, etc., so he could provide us with fakeclaims (Rock Operafia 332 past game)

so nacho asked and got:

You are Thanor, from Rhapsody of Fire's The Dark Secret Saga. The original betrayer of Nekron's scheme, it has fallen to you to stop him from attaining power again. You are the Town Day One Double Voter 1-shot Rolestopper 1-shot Roleblocker Day Three (Modified Double Voter/Voteless Executioner).

You are Rem, from Nightwish's Imaginaerum. Despite your differences, your father's music and legacy lives on through you. You are the Town 1-Shot Spirit Messenger Bomb.

post 32.

[Bert]

If there is a town flavor cop, then they are important in this game.

let's cut to the chase then, and ill look at this game during the night

you and morph (who else is online i don't know) need to switch to bulba within 2 hours, or there's a NL.

[Bert]

I anticipated each claim to be a bastard PR of sorts, so it can't say in surprised this is happening.

[Bert]

So, a NL doesn't sound unfortunate anymore, assuming all this PR frenzy is legit.

[Bert]

VOTE: beast

#

[Bert]

ETL, Arcadia just concluded - we finally have a past game in which we were both town!

Ain't that exciting

[Bert]

?

[Bert]

Well I am just mad right now at everything. Losing arcadia and my work computer being A FUCKING SLOW PIECE OF SHIT OBSOLETE FUCKING GARBAGE MACHINE FROM HELL.

on the bright side, this thread isn't green so your boss won't notice it

also i dont know how ppl could see bulba's crumb

[Bert]

I'm here to vote whoever I need to, anyone know what the VC looks like?

beast is lynch -2 i think, and you should vote him if you aren't already

[Bert]

omw to library.

(expired on 2014-06-27 12:00:00)

[Bert]

ruby and ka vote BC and call it a day

[Bert]

dont stop believin

[Bert]

hi KA who's scum?

[Bert]

KA's brain is always coming up with statistics and trivia

[Bert]

Hey ETL you're gonna set the record with hydra slips. You're at 57.

[Bert]

if the flip means lying scum was not town, and rather was scum

If that's true

VOTE: fferyllt

I had them as potential scum and it was really awkward trying to discuss them with you, i finally got a "no they are town" read after prodding with multiple Reiki sticks!! And that town read was after you kept asking ETL questions as if you didn't understand what she was doing.

REIKI

[Bert]

Maybe! I wasn't sure whether it meant PR or scum when I saw the 'blue.' She kept having these sparks where she kept rotating between a full head of steam and apologetic for no reason, that kind of way where she never coldly scumread me. It was hard to wrap my head around that strange behavior. I was waiting to see if Ffery would come forward and discuss why ETL is town, but that never happened. The proportionality of ETL's attacks didn't really match the anger.

Also, the ZZZX wagon, it felt like morph was couching statements about wanting to lynch BC (who replaced ZZZX). "would rather lynch slightly." I find that suspect considering their revelations about how sns's replace-out wasn't town according to Cabd. How would you prefer bc slightly over that? They had no attacks on ZZZX that showed any amount of healthy suspicion. My theory is that Ffery was in the driver's seat with no IA not being lynchable if they hopped off the train, and for some reason they preferred a lurker lynch.

would rather lynch bc. slightly.

[Bert]

VOTE: morph the cat

I keep thinking of that hydra as ffery, sorry.

[Bert]

my inclination at the moment is to vote Oversoul.

May I ask why?

[Bert]

I was targeted, and given the result, I can say for sure that IA is town

.

i wanted to claim a result to stress them outtttt

at least we know scum have a roleblocker/JK.

What is going on here?

[Bert]

VOTE: Bulbazak

[Bert]

Yellow is neutral, just so ya know.

Hmm. So if yellow is neutral, that still doesn't clear up whether Lying Scum was third-party or scum.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: morph

Both IA and Bulba are probably town,

which means all three near-DL wagons yesterday were most likely on town

. No wonder everyone including scum seemed so relaxed near the end of the day. They didn't do do any heavy lifting.

Going back to review this game tonight so I can come back tomorrow and have something to say.

[Bert]

I started the game out as Luke fon Fabre, Gullible Hero, Neutral Vanilla. As long as I was neutral, I had no wincon. As long as I have no wincon, every action that targets me will fail. However, I will gain the alignment of the first action to target me the next day. At the beginning of the day, I got a message from Nati saying that I was now a VT. IA targeted me last night, and seeing as how I am now town, that means that they are also town.

This *seems* quite legit.

[Bert]

Hey bert you're voting us but you have like zero conviction, what's up with that?

Ffery, why would I have a lot of conviction given how I misread you in our last game (Arcadia) and quite a few others? I don't read either of you well. Please don't use the "you aren't engaging us or you aren't showing conviction, which worries us." I've tunneled you in many, many games, many in which you ended up town, so please don't bait me to tunnel you? I'm looking elsewhere for scum as well, you're not my sole top priority and the world does not revolve around me getting my read on you all correct.

Also, I just submitted my request to talk to ETL tonight so I will let you all know how that goes, assuming I survive.

[Bert]

My dislike has nothing to do with his claim and everything to do with there being no zip to his push on us.

I. don't. enjoy. tunneling. you.

It makes the game a pain to play through. Our first newbie was a pain because I was stuck in a tunnel. 169 was a pain. Arcadia even though you were scum was a pain. Every. game. has. been. a. pain. because. of. tunneling. you. Nat's Mini Normal was a huge pain because of my tunneling.

Arcadia was a pain because you complained about me not engaging with you all enough. I tried to do my own thing in that game.

It's as annoying to me as the cliche "Ffery isn't doing enough and pushing wagons, and is waffling and therefore scummy" is to you. I don't enjoy making the same points that don't even work in every game I'm in with you.

Lighten up and let everything play out.

[Bert]

Also, I just submitted my request to talk to ETL tonight so I will let you all know how that goes, assuming I survive.

Why do you want to talk to a 3rd party?

Indies are useful according to Mollie and Nacho, two of my past hydra partners. That's all my role is good for, so why not make use of it?

[Bert]

Define 'zip,' ffery. You mean emotion and super-tunnel-vision? If others agree with my points, then they will. Lots of emotion or appeal to fear or tunneling isn't going to change whether they agree with me or not.

[Bert]

ETA: I actually enjoy playing with Ffery because she has an interesting style, but I do not enjoy tunneling people. It's like...waiting for Mina to make a decision on who to vote. Waffling somehow makes me think scum even though it's not even a scumtell. I wanted to vote Mina so bad in Wicked, but Mollie had her as super super town. If I had been solo, my vote would have been plastered on her forehead all game long.

[Bert]

How am I vote-parking when I already switched my vote to Bulba once today?

If I don't vote you, then there's no "conviction" in my case and there wasn't "conviction about voting you." If I continue voting you, then you consider it a vote park.

You all didn't have a problem vote-parking on me for the entirety of Day 1 (you and Tammy) during Arcadia. I thought it was for reactions then. What if mine is for reactions now too?

[Bert]

IMO your reasons for suspecting me are BS too!

prior to more data hitting thee thread.

Keyword is 'prior.' Day has opened for less than 12 hours, and you're accusing me of vote-parking already.

Anyways, after the "prior," Bulba then explained why he knew shos was town after shos claimed being RB/JKed. The explanation is something I'm willing to buy.

I also don't think the lurking/disappearing is something this game has been plagued with, outside of maybe Oversoul. Oversoul is inactive because of IRL, so your enthusiasm for his lynch isn't really understandable. He's not someone who usually has difficulty voicing his opinions, but in this case he's null.

[Bert]

Even if I displayed some bravado about wanting to push your lynch through, that's just a waste of energy and I really, really doubt your lynch would go through anyways. You didn't consider my reasoning for deadline vote-hopping to be poorly founded yesterday, so I don't really see the direction you're going in right now.

I followed your recommendations to lynch IA (and someone else who I can't remember), but the lack of responses I got from you about ETL/Beli as well as other players felt like just posturing on reads. I had to ask you a Yes/No/Maybe about ETL-read, several times to be exact before I got a response. Somehow, the end of Day 1 went haywire where you all settled on ZZZX (who was kinda lurky/scummy), instead of IA (sns meta-read) or Bulba (who you had insinuated scumminess about multiple times). Even now, you are claiming that Bulba is a decent vote given the circumstances.

Why ZZZX? There is a lot of reason for concern after how D1 played out at the end.

[Bert]

beast - lurker
oversoul - lurker

lurker lynches, both low info. Reminds me, I need to look back tomorrow at the library, about who was complaining about Gameplay being a low info lynch, when ZZZX/BC is just as low info. And that person might have settled onto a lurker-lynch in the end, anyways. I think it was Rubicon but I haven't read back yet. Smells like scum protecting a buddy.

I had Mir as a very tentative town, I was distracted by his pressure on me yesterday so I'll answer when I read tomorrow. He suddenly retracted his scumread on me, which I questioned. I tend to call people who pressure me town once they let go. A really bad habit. What bothers me is his votes (on me and others) lack the same kind of conviction you're noticing about my own vote on you, yet you haven't mentioned him with one breath. It's a little fishy how it seems like he's making some votes, but in the scheme of things waiting for a wagon to collect and go off before he joins. I even asked him/her to join a wagon D1, can't remember which wagon. But yeah, someone to keep an eye on. Part of why I gave him a very long leash is I saw his join date and how his style may be from 2010, and I didn't want to jab him about his style when it's his style that might be scummy, not his actual play. So yeah, a very null read that I have no confidence about.

[Bert]

I felt like I telegraphed the hell out of my ETL/Beli read. I would have been scumreading them if not for Beli.

At the end of the game day we had 2 claims - one investigative by IA and one that sounded sort of investigative by bulba. The reason I backed off bulba was because of that claim. I had already backed off IA because I decided to trust ETL's ability to read guyett.

I think if Cabd had been around he would probably have wanted our vote someplace besides zzzx/beast because he's better at reading beast than I am. I thought we had a pretty good chance of hitting scum with that lynch.

I forgot about all those PR claims. Any PR claim pretty much here would gain towncred in other non-bastard games. What did Beli do that looked town? I forgot he existed outside of a few walls early D1.

I'm going to have to figure out what I've learned about ETL's game from this one. It bothered me she didn't put more effort into getting her read of me/cabd right, but that wasn't the only thing that bothered me.

If you're town, there are notes to take yeah. She had some Wisdom-like knee-jerks where she suddenly became really sentimental, almost as if she didn't believe in her scumread and felt guilty about manipulating with rage. I have no record of reading them, except Arcadia where I was way off. But I thought saying that would just inspire more rage, so that's why I asked you to discuss ETL. I was implying that I had them as scum pretty loudly too IMO.

[Bert]

Wait I forgot BC died and is eligible too! I could pick him instead, but I feel ETL and Beli are strong scumhunters

[Bert]

Yes.

[Bert]

I can use it on one different player each day. It's not one-shot.

[Bert]

Throughout one night in a QT. A different private QT each night wth a different dead player.

[Bert]

Very funny, Oversoul! I'm laughing with you.

Haha!!

[Bert]

Say it ain't so, chief! I enjoyed it very much!! Take it easy!

[Bert]

So do dead players not get access to the usual dead QT this game? How does that work?

Guessing no Dead QT! And no spoilers!!

@Shadoweh my raconteur!!! I have a passive double voting ability on certain days unknown to myself!! I also can talk to a different dead person in a different private QT each night!


Love!

[Bert]

Mates, I'm sorry I'm in a troll mood, but this is better than prod dodging aye?

Aye!!!

[Bert]

He's way more aggressive than I've seen him be before

You were there for my ffery-tunnel in Natirasha's Mini Normal along with nasty back-and-forths with muffina and idiotking, so this is definitely not true. I'm not objected to your point about me overreaching, but your whole catchup post doesn't seem like you playing our scenarios in your head.

Also, you didn't explain what you think my motives are behind "being aggressive."

Hope you straighten out your thoughts, as this post feels like not trying to upset anyone! Now that's kind of unlike you <3

[Bert]

Bad =/= scum. How about some reads? This is Nat's game, come no, wake up!!! :effort:

In the interest of not OMGUSing, I would like to wake Oversoul up.

VOTE: Oversoul

Come back!!

[Bert]

Tunneling is tunneling. It's still bad no matter what way you put it.

In Nat's game, you gave some really beautiful effort because, well, it's Nat's game, but here you're not present and this is more Ace Attorney. However, you were busy throughout Arcadia. So now that you're here, reads before you go on your way out. You just said you went over the game, but in your last post your only concrete read was on me.

There's no lack of polarizing players in this game, so those few opinions aren't enough, no.

[Bert]

You baked me cinnamon cookies, when I asked for apple strudel. I don't enjoy playing second fiddle. Ooh, your SSK question, me likey!

[Bert]

This is one of the reasons I'm suspicious of Oversoul.

Liking oversoul more.

Overly things, You've been a bad boy!

[Bert]

Trying to encourage you to rally and play the most simply extraordinary game of your life instead of this crap!

I am willing to call Morph town with the hopes that if they are scum they will night kill me. One can hope.

I would like you to expound on this.

[Bert]

I am particularly fond of that peaceful reply.

Peace!

[Bert]

This game is hard for me to get into period still, so if you have something specific to look at it would help both of us readswise.

A Natirasha game is hard to get into?

That's really hard to believe considering the other cool people in the game.

[Bert]

VOTE: Shadoweh

[Bert]

What about that is worth being fatalistic over?

There isn't anything. Statements like the one about feeling fatliastic are why I always worry about Ffery regardless of game/alignment.

[Bert]

Like, exaggerated emotions on a soap opera or something.

[Bert]

ETL misread is understandable as they were probably scumhunting. Do SKs give off tells that early? This game may be bastard, but more in terms of roles I guess? Maybe factions. Well, cults (or jesters, or anything) *could* exist which would make this game a nightmare. Maybe that's why you feel fatalistic, not because you misread ETL-SK?

I don't have a decent handle, no. However, people have high standards for you to meet!

[Bert]

People, me, people, and people.

[Bert]

Why does morph the cat wear a hat? Did Cabd morph that avatar into a picture of the cat in the hat

[Bert]

pretty animal face shan't be covered

[Bert]

I couldn't talk to BC as I have to select during the day. No one was dead until Day 1 ended.

[Bert]

I only know addition and subtraction

[Bert]

How is that fishing?

[Bert]

Interdimensional Arsehole has admitted to fishing all game long, then votes mirhawk for fishing.

SSK sheeps the most blatant rolefisher onto the wagon on the lesser rolefisher - reason given is rolefishing admission.

Tell me something ain't right!

[Bert]

This game is hard for me to get into period still, so if you have something specific to look at it would help both of us readswise.

A Natirasha game is hard to get into?

That's really hard to believe considering the other cool people in the game.

SHADOWEH

[Bert]

hey guys let's talk about fantasy camp where tammy fooled people (i didnt read it but i hear she was in a scumhydra that won)

see what a

sweetheart

bittertart she can be

watch outtt

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

gather around in a circle and let's surround her obvtownness

[Bert]

im just not thinking clearly today, ignore that

[Bert]

I'm having old moments, and I'm not even old.

I remember addressing Bulba as Desperado earlier. For some reason, I went through half of Day 1 thinking Bulba is Desperado. I don't even know how it's possible to think of one as the other.

[Bert]

Wondering why Bert hasn't tested his ability yet today.

I voted two people consecutively without unvoting, and the results indicate I have a single vote today. I have no idea what activates the passive double-voter ability. That said, I think my ability to talk to the dead is more useful than the double vote (unless LYLO).

Maybe it's economical to lynch me before it reaches LYLO if you think I'm probable scum.

[Bert]

Bert, can you clarify what you have said about talking to the dead?

I've been clear about it - I choose an already dead player during the daytime, and then the upcoming night I get a private QT with them for one night only. Then, the next night I can choose a different dead person, and rinse and repeat.

[Bert]

OK I switched my target to BC for tonight.

I really think something was seriously wrong, that ETL might have been part of another scumteam or cult or something bastard. No way ETL/Beli will help.

She is not one to townread me EVER, much less strong townread me, based on past games.

[Bert]

Also, if she really was an SK, it makes no sense for her to push me D1, let go, and then not NK me if she were scumhunting.

I'm thinking cult, until the day I die.

[Bert]

I feel a sudden urge to vote the gameplay slot again.

then why aren't you?

[Bert]

so, basically (Since i havent read this game well, but i will tomorrow at the library whew), then kinda busy but yeah um

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i feel guilty about voting people who go after me (making me twinge and feel like OMGUSing back) - in this case that person is mirhawk

i feel guilty about voting rubicon because well, i thought he was scum in that arcadia game, and um nacho shot him

so like..

yeah. nothing else to say atm until i catch up

[Bert]

So doge.

[Bert]

So, we have 1 wagon with zero resistance. However, that does not really bother me since KA and Shadoweh are one of the few not wagoning anyone, along with another question mark who must not be named.

Intent. Claim please

[Bert]

I actually don't care all that much what you claim, as everyone claims this big PR

But in the interest of not hammering without a claim, please claim!

[Bert]

then unvote and I'll put a vote on, doofus <3

[Bert]

lots of claims leads to yesterday - another scrambling DL lynch on an unclaimed.

how is this worse?

[Bert]

such an energizer battery aka firecracker, this Shadoweh person

[Bert]

energizer bunny* freudian slip