Newbie 1517: Crossroads Mafia (Game Over)

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: Alesteors

Because you should also start a game with an rvs vote.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Oh look a game started. I'm busy catching up in another game right now, but let's see if I can stay on top of this one as well.

Why the hell is Doogal not voting for a week. That's just annoying.

I also don't like how easy TSO townreads Doogal for something he knows Doogal does every game.

Oh we are still sorta in rvs really. Let's get out.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Doogal

Far too concerned with TSO being at L-2, particalarly since he's assuming all three votes are town.

Sheep me people.

Aside: My dad has diabetes Rach, and I know how much it can suck. Hope you can keep playing but I understand if you can't.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well it seems this pace has been set to relaxing stroll, pacewise. It least it'll give me time to work on my other games. In meantime...

I also don't like how easy TSO townreads Doogal for something he knows Doogal does every game.

I'm not townreading Doogal for not votng; I'm townreading him for continuing to do it after people told him not to.

I've seen exactly one game of Doogal's, where he was Town ...so why should I assume Doogal does this as scum?

You assume that doing it makes him town so you're assuming he doesn't do it as scum. If Doogal not voting for a week was something he only did as town then that would make him the easiest catch scum ever. I doubt he's that obvious.

I like Clusk's vote in 71.

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

Rach usually lurks to a degree, you'll have to accept it, my boy.

Victor doesn't really.

Your metaread on me is based on what exactly?

And that vote in 82 was terrible. Heck your more deserving of my vote than Bill.

VOTE: TSO

If the scumteam ends up being TSO/Bill I will disappointed by how easy this game is.

Also SE advice; get more active. I know Rach is vla but the rest of you need to be doing stuff. Scum won't catch themselves. It also makes for a boring game (and if the game is boring players like myself will just replace out).

[VictorDeAngelo]

one of what players?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I also don't like how easy TSO townreads Doogal for something he knows Doogal does every game.

I'm not townreading Doogal for not votng; I'm townreading him for continuing to do it after people told him not to.
I've seen exactly one game of Doogal's, where he was Town ...so why should I assume Doogal does this as scum?

You assume that doing it makes him town so you're assuming he doesn't do it as scum. If Doogal not voting for a week was something he only did as town then that would make him the easiest catch scum ever. I doubt he's that obvious.

Either you're not reading what I'm saying or you're directly misrepresenting it. I didn't say Doogal was Town for not voting. I said that he didn't give into pressure in the form of more experienced players telling him not to do it. That's a really strong newbtown tell. This regularly happens, just with different scenarios each time. Usually they've came from other sites where that's the common thing to do.

If Doogal was scum, odds are he'd have became flustered at us telling him not to do it, felt it was bringing unneeded pressure on him, and voted someone. He didn't.

You seem to be the one making the assumptions here. At the end of the day you are giving someone townpoints for something which I don't think makes them necessarily town.

I like Clusk's vote in 71.

I fail to understand why you like people voting you. The only reason you could say this is because you're buddying Clusk.

Or... what he did was exactly what I wanted to see happen.

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

To summarise this: Bill did not vote you straight away and agrees with people calling you scum, therefore Bill is scum.

That's a terrible argument which looks like you just want to survive at all costs.

To summarise Clusk reaction townie - Bill's hesistancy scummy. Just in case you need me to spell out stuff.

Rach usually lurks to a degree, you'll have to accept it, my boy.
Victor doesn't really.

Your metaread on me is based on what exactly?

Open 555.

Oh yeah, I forgot you were in that game for like five minutes. Hardly enough to really claim to have any clue with regards to my style.

And that vote in 82 was terrible. Heck your more deserving of my vote than Bill.

VOTE: TSO

How was my vote terrible again? You're very good at calling things bad, but you're pretty bad at explaining why.

Because if I explained every obvious thing it would reach the point where I would be patronising people.

If the scumteam ends up being TSO/Bill I will disappointed by how easy this game is.

What exactly makes you think it's a TSO/Bill scumteam again? Our suspicion of you?

Because that's a fairly universal read at this point; your play is really reactionary and you're hellbent on calling me scum - I don't think anyone's actually townreading you at this stage.[/quote]

Are you reading each post, responding and then immediately forgetting it? Because I think I said pretty clearly why I think you two are scum.

[VictorDeAngelo]

...
Because I think I said pretty clearly why I think you two are scum.

I'm pretty clear on why you think I am in the mafia (although I know you are barking up the wrong tree there), but it is equally unclear to me why you are putting T S O in the same category.

T S O votes for a player with the total of 1 post, who should be back from V/LA, and there isn't even a remote lynch danger from that vote.

Can you spell your reasons out for me?

You see the bolded. That's a pretty scummy thing to do.

[VictorDeAngelo]

It's also pretty typical of townies trying to get people out of rvs.

My actual intention was to see if any newbscum would actually sheep looking for an easy wagon. Didn't work out as intended but on the plus side we're past rvs and I got some good reads off it.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Still working on getting back up to par but I still do not see a case for Doogal scum why are you pushing it so hard Vic? Are you even looking at other players? Do you have any town reads yet?

It is not enough to just complain about activity ask questions find out what people are thinking so you can figure out who is scum

Also vic gambits in newbie games usually fall flat and often just end up giving the player doing the gambit a nice big dollop of appearing to be scum

So you complain about me not doing enough to find scum and then complain about making a gambit to get out of rvs. I mean seriously look at the activity count and tell me you don't think I'm doing enough. As for your questions you should iso me.

...
Because I think I said pretty clearly why I think you two are scum.

I'm pretty clear on why you think I am in the mafia (although I know you are barking up the wrong tree there), but it is equally unclear to me why you are putting T S O in the same category.

T S O votes for a player with the total of 1 post, who should be back from V/LA, and there isn't even a remote lynch danger from that vote.

Can you spell your reasons out for me?

You see the bolded. That's a pretty scummy thing to do.

no, it's not.

What exactly motivates me to do that as scum? How does it advance my win condition? It doesn't.

It's a pointless vote that keeps you away from any wagons (for instance my wagon which would be you would vote if you were town and thought I was scummy). Rvs is over, you should be voting for a reason.

But how about you explain why town would vote this way?

[VictorDeAngelo]

...I'm trying to get people to play, maybe?

At the point in which people in this game were already playing. I mean seriously I took us out of rvs. I had created plenty of things to analyse and now your coming out and trying to pretend that your blatant attempt to avoid doing any real work was scumhunting.

...
Because I think I said pretty clearly why I think you two are scum.

I'm pretty clear on why you think I am in the mafia (although I know you are barking up the wrong tree there), but it is equally unclear to me why you are putting T S O in the same category.

T S O votes for a player with the total of 1 post, who should be back from V/LA, and there isn't even a remote lynch danger from that vote.

Can you spell your reasons out for me?

You see the bolded. That's a pretty scummy thing to do.

Eeee... No, it's not.

Yeah, well I have my own theories about why you might not be seeing this.

Unvote
Vote: Victor DeAngelo

Victor's at L-1.

Oh my god I'm so surprised.

Because he's pretty damn scummy and I've given him enough chances to prove himself.

L-1 isn't an inherently bad thing; no-one here is stupid enough to quickhammer and it ramps up the pressure on Victor.

TSO has been in enough games surely to know this is BS. Come on guys we need to voting him today.

...

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

...

Also SE advice; get more active. I know Rach is vla but the rest of you need to be doing stuff. Scum won't catch themselves. It also makes for a boring game (and if the game is boring players like myself will just replace out).

So your advice is to jump right away with your vote on every post you don't like?

There are 5 player more active than you, including RachMarie. Should you take your own advice?

There's a difference between content and post count. My posts have actually moved this game forward. Even if it gets me lynched at least my wagon will prove of use tomorrow.

Dammit TSO, I wanted to vote victor.

Fine then hammer me. I'm vt so you don't lose much.

My actual intention was to see if any newbscum would actually sheep looking for an easy wagon.

I have trouble believing that this is honest. Lets examine this claim a bit:

First off, for this idea to have any merit it would require that Doogal is town and that newbscum see Doogal as an easy person to wagon. At the time of the vote, Doogal did not have any votes and TSO had three.
At this point, you either had suspicions of TSOscum or you did not.

Not entirely true. If Doogal was scum then there would be a buddy out there somewhere, and perhaps a newbscum buddy would jump to the defence. But your right I had no good reason to beleive he was town, merely playing the odds that he was.

If you did not believe TSO was scum at the time (or was neutral on him), I see absolutely no way you can say that you thought newbscum would sheep your vote on Doogal when TSO would be a far, far tastier wagon to jump onto for them. Perhaps you believed that newbscum was already on that wagon? But Lucy was V/LA and Rach is not a newbie, and doing all this because you thought that billiscum would go from a TSO wagon to a Doogal wagon because its an "easier wagon" sounds fairly farfetched to me.

TSO's wagon was still carrying rvs votes, in fact are any of these three serious:

VOTE: TSO

for bottoming the list.

VOTE: TSO


Because OMGUS is so tasty

I didn't give them anything, Officer, I swear!

Tsk tsk tsk. No swearing here. I'll give you the third vote for that.

VOTE: T S O

So no, I don't really think scum were looking to jump the wagon. If it had in anyway been a serious wagon I would not have had to bothered doing what I did.

If you thought that TSO was scum at the time, you may have thought that TSO's partner might be a newbscum willing to sheep your vote. But that does not explain why you would choose Doogal. At this point there were several other people who already had a vote on them and could be seen as an easier wagon, if this was truly what you believed.

Doogal was fairly irrelevent except I found something that might produce a wagon.

...First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads".

I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice.

Second, one read is still more than zero... And that brings me to my last point -

that was over 50 posts ago.

He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Do you think I was trying to trap you? Why so defensive about this?

But I only pointed it out after two of you had done it, so 50 posts later doesn't matter - except in the way that not much happened read-wise in that period.

I don't get what Billi is trying to acheive with any of this.

Although Victor's at L-1, there's no real urgency about him or his wagon. I don't know what I need to do to create that.

You want urgency? Why so you can quickly end the day before everyone has had a chance to contribute.

Duh, forgot, I didn't like TSO putting Victor at L-1

And yet I'm your number scumread.

Hey there,

First post, just got my confirmation this morning.

I've read through and as much as I don't want to just bandwagon, before I even got to the L-1 on Victor, I was reading him as pretty scummy. I obviously have never played with any of you before, but especially posts 83 and 92 both gave me some scummy vibes. I also didn't like the Doogal vote, even given the reasons. I am waiting to hear a good defense from him, so I look forward to his response.

I don't really like the vote on TSO just yet. I am reading him as a little scummy, but I think many of his actions have actually been valuable for town, so I'd much rather lynch a scummy read that I don't think is helping town versus ones that is (whether it be genuine or not).

Here's an idea, why don't you highlight what you found scummy in 83 and 92 rather than just saying it?

Either way if people want to lynch me, go for it. I aint got anymore I can say and it's hardly the first time I've been mislynched day 1.

[VictorDeAngelo]

...

...First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads".

I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice.

Second, one read is still more than zero... And that brings me to my last point -

that was over 50 posts ago.

He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Do you think I was trying to trap you? Why so defensive about this?

But I only pointed it out after two of you had done it, so 50 posts later doesn't matter - except in the way that not much happened read-wise in that period.

I don't get what Billi is trying to acheive with any of this.

Reactions. I noticed the difference in the reactions of the two players in question, and will ponder upon that as the game rolls on.

What exactly did you notice?

...Either way if people want to lynch me, go for it. I aint got anymore I can say and

it's hardly the first time I've been mislynched day 1.

I'm not surprised.
I disagree with you on almost every point you make (except that, yes, you moved the game forward - but that isn't a town tell per se), and with the normal likelyhood of lynching a mafioso the first day, I think you are a wery good candidate for day 1 lynching.[/quote]

Wow, it like you revel in assholery.

[VictorDeAngelo]

And I'm vla until Sunday so you can hammer or whatever.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Huh, kinda expected this day to be done before I got back.

Why are you so okay with being hammered?

I have been put at intent to hammer and I'm vt. My lynch is inevitable at this point really.

Would scum Victor really be this nonchalant about being lynched?

Oh look someone wants off the wagon about to flip town #notsurprised

@Doogal
Maybe you missed my question:

FOS: Billi for running up the votecount on TSO to L-2 while knowing one of the votes was V/LA and can't get off.

I want to know if this is an actual FOS, or continuing the joking you were doing in previous posts.

OK everybody, after detailed analysis of each players ISO's, I have come up with the following list of Town/Null/Lynchable

Billi - Trying to dig up inconsistencies in votes
Glass - Trying to scumhunt
----
Clusk - Participating, not seeing much digging
Shaddows - Null
Acryon - No posts at all
Rach - Null
---
TSO - Victor was right, I was uncomfortable how quickly you called me Town after I announced I wasn't voting.
Victor - For pushing TSO because he vote prodded a lurker.

My vote comes available tomorrow and I have no problems hammering either of the lynchables after a 24 hour notice to give time to talk their way off the gallows.

I'm a bit uncomfortable about how quickly you have me in your town category after last game as well.

Would scum Victor really be this nonchalant about being lynched?

Ehhh, there has been literally no pushback from this wagon so I am having my doubts as well. Need to look into other possibilities atm.

Well I guess this sort of thinking is better late than never.

I think we need to rethink the Victor wagon seriously this feels like town resigned and aw f- it not like scum AtE

Forget me for a second. Who do you think is scum currently?

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

So your advice is to jump right away with your vote on every post you don't like?

I think that victor actually makes a valid point here, from what I can tell your vote on TSO at the time was just a random vote. If your current vote is random, I see absolutely no reason to not change your vote to someone who you find suspicious.

Thank you, someone finally gets what I'm saying.

...I don't think anyone in the entire damn game has said one thing about Victor being town. There's nobody attempting to defuse a wagon on their scumbuddy. There's just acceptance...

I've made records of everybody except RachMarie categorizing Victor as Mafioso, so, yes, I believe you're right about nobody defending Victor.

UNVOTE:

Another flimsy excuse to get off my wagon.

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

So your advice is to jump right away with your vote on every post you don't like?

I think that victor actually makes a valid point here, from what I can tell your vote on TSO at the time was just a random vote. If your current vote is random, I see absolutely no reason to not change your vote to someone who you find suspicious.

Yeah, maybe, but he packes it in statements that I have issues with.
I had recently put T S O to L-2 (in post 52, albeit all votes were RVS's), and didn't want to go back from that until everybody had had an opportunity to see that, and maybe take position on that.
I had no reason to put a first vote on Victor that would give no pressure at all.
When Victor went up to 2 votes (in posts 71 & 72), I did, however, see that as a better L-2 pressure than the T S O pressure, and so I moved my vote.

I do think the best responses come from actual pressures, and not just a single vote, so I usually look more towards using my vote in that way, especially on day one.

Yeah this whole explanation is just rubbish. RVS votes aren't pressure in the slightest. And if everyone takes the whole let's not vote to be the first one we are left twiddling our thumbs.

@Doogal
Maybe you missed my question:

FOS: Billi for running up the votecount on TSO to L-2 while knowing one of the votes was V/LA and can't get off.

I want to know if this is an actual FOS, or continuing the joking you were doing in previous posts.

OK everybody, after detailed analysis of each players ISO's, I have come up with the following list of Town/Null/Lynchable

Billi - Trying to dig up inconsistencies in votes
Glass - Trying to scumhunt
----
Clusk - Participating, not seeing much digging
Shaddows - Null
Acryon - No posts at all
Rach - Null
---
TSO - Victor was right, I was uncomfortable how quickly you called me Town after I announced I wasn't voting.
Victor - For pushing TSO because he vote prodded a lurker.

My vote comes available tomorrow and I have no problems hammering either of the lynchables after a 24 hour notice to give time to talk their way off the gallows.

I'm a bit uncomfortable about how quickly you have me in your town category after last game as well.

Would scum Victor really be this nonchalant about being lynched?

Ehhh, there has been literally no pushback from this wagon so I am having my doubts as well. Need to look into other possibilities atm.

Glass, that was not a joke, I had real concerns. I have since read his igloo mafia game and see that is well within his standard townie play. As for your read, you are different this game. It may be that you are town, it may just be that you don't have axle to go off. Last game, between you and axle, I had no idea what was going on. Your posts this game seem clearer and more to the point.

Now that my self imposed restraint period has past, I would like to

Vote: Rach

to get her involved in the game and participate in scum hunting, now that you are feeling better and having less computer issues.

PS, glad to hear you are feeling better. But I'm still voting for you.

So Doogal has two scumreads - me and TSO - but screw voting for them because Rach needs pressure to contribute - because it's not like she's had an excuse not to - like medical reasons or computer trouble... oh hang on a second.

VOTE: Clusk

But why?

More this afternoon.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So yeah afternoon became tomorrow but whatever.

Billi actually asked the question I asked so that's something in 166.

No-ones stupid enough you're right, still possible for an accidental hammer though.

If you are worried about accidental hammerings, why don't you unvote?

Wasn't particularly worried - just explaining it was a possibility. I also think TSO's reasons for L-1 outweighed mine.

Doogal, I'd like to explain why you felt the need to wait a week to vote so you can 'take time talking and reading' and yet when its over you vote for Rach just to get her involved in the game. It makes the wait seem a bit pointless if that's the best vote you can come up with after analysing the thread.

I like points here by Clusk.

OK. After ISO'ing T S O I think I'll go back to my original wagon. Lot's of posts (even though he's V/LA indefenately) but strong mafia-vibes from the contents.

VOTE: T S O

Can you say what is giving you scumvibes off TSO content specifically?

Beaten to the punch again.

He's not looking for much. He's reacting to Victor. He's reacting to Doogal.
He's writing a lot of posts but he seems to keep the focus just on those players that are active.

My 3rd vote on him, originally wasn't purely RVS, although mainly it was so.

Victor may have been reading him correctly, although he was presenting his case in an unconvincing manner. Dismissing that case must not exonerate T S O from possible mafia-participation.

This explanation feels a bit wishywashy. Can you expand on the bit in bold Billi?

... everyone who hasn't posted for 48 hours is actually V/LA, so no prods at present.

So, is acryon V/LA without the other players knowing about it?

He came into Alesteors dead slot and gave us 5 posts in about a day, and then disappeared.
It's wery easy to read his posts as distancing himself from a mafia-role.

He jumps up to the top slots in my suspect list.

I don't like this sort of thinking either. Players can declare v/la by PMing the mod (there's also a feature that lets you set yourself v/la for those unaware in your settings which shows up on the activity monitor below). Either way it's not really the sort of thing that indicates a players alignment.

Aside: I kinda like the whole table thing from Billi in 203 (mainly as a tool not a alignment indicator).

I finalise a readlist tonight after I read through Mala's wall and responses when I'm at my home PC.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I had a longer post but it got eaten and now it's late.

Readswise - Acryon, Clusk, Shaddowez as lean town.
Glass/Rach null.
Mala/Billi - lean scum.
Doogal - Strong scum.

VOTE: Doogal

Goodnight everyone.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I doubt we have a scumteam that didn't submit. I think a role prevented the kill and we should massclaim today.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Assuming the scumteam submitted we have four possible options.
For those who haven't seen it before, the setup is here:

Spoiler:

Setup Rules

• This game uses the Matrix6 semi-open setup. That means that the existing roles will be chosen using
  1
  row or column from the following table:
  
  

  • 	A	B	C
    1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
    2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
    3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

  
  All empty spaces will be filled with Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons until there are 7 Town-aligned players and 2 Mafia-aligned players.

All possible Role PMs follow:

Spoiler: Role PMs:

Vanilla Townie

:

Welcome, X. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Powers: You have no powers except your brain and your vote.

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all the Mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Town Jailkeeper

:

Welcome, X. You are the

Town Jailkeeper

.

Powers: Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to target. If successful, that player will be unable to perform any night actions and will be protected from night kills.

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all the Mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Town Cop

:

Welcome, X. You are the

Town Cop

.

Powers: Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to target. If successful, you will be told whether that player is ‘Mafia’ or ‘Not Mafia’; if unsuccessful, you will be told ‘No Result.’

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all the Mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Town Doctor

:

Welcome, X. You are the

Town Doctor

.

Powers: Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to target. If successful, that player will be protected from being killed that night.

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all the Mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof

:

Welcome, X. You are the

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof

.

Powers: The first night you are targeted for a kill, it will be unsuccessful. You will not be informed that this ability has activated.

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all the Mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Town Tracker

:

Welcome, X. You are the

Town Tracker

.

Powers: Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to target. You will be told whom that player targeted during the night phase, if anyone.

Win Condition: You win with the Town when all the Mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Mafia Goon

:

Welcome, X. You are a

Mafia Goon

, along with your teammate Y, a

Mafia Goon/Roleblocker

.

Powers: Each night you and Y may communicate in this PT. Additionally, one of you may perform the factional kill. The choice of kill may be sent via PM or bolded in the PT; you must designate which of you is performing the kill. If I receive multiple kill submissions I will honor the one I receive closest
to the deadline.

Win Condition: You win when all members of the town are dead or nothing can prevent this from happening.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name.

Mafia Roleblocker

:

Welcome, X. You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

, along with your teammate Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

Powers: Each night you and Y may communicate in this PT. Each night you may PM me the name of a player you wish to target. If that player submits a night action it will be unsuccessful. Additionally, one of you may perform the factional kill. The choice of kill may be sent via PM or bolded in the PT; you must designate which of you is performing the kill. If I receive multiple kill submissions I will honor the one I receive closest to the deadline.

Win Condition: You win when all members of the town are dead or nothing can prevent this from happening.

The game thread is here

Please confirm via PM with your role name

Which give four options as to why there was a NK.

1) They targetted the BP townie.
2) They targetted the doc target.
3) They targetted a jailed player.
4) The scum performing the NK was jailed.

If it's column A we don't know for sure whether 1,3 or 4 happened but we do get some information and at least two confirmed townies to remove.

It can't be column B unless the scum submitted a NK.

If it's column C then the Doc claiming clears themselves plus the person they protected which again give us two confirmed townie (we can let the tracker decide whether to claim but if they don't have a result last night then I say they don't)

If it's row 1, the jailkeeper knows who he or she jailed and that person is either scum or the target. If the jailkeeper targetted someone scummy last night they should definitely claim today!

If it's row 2 then we have the doc and cop claim their results and potentially have two PRs who are clear, the doc target who is clear and the cop result who is either scum or town. If there are no crosses we could potentially know the alignment of 4 players.

If it's row 3 we know the BP is town and the tracker is town. The tracker result will be relevent only if he or she saw anyone targetting anyone else.

So actually there is little benefit in forcing a tracker claim straight away. But we should have a partial claim of Doc, jk, cop and BP along with who they targetted. The biggest risk is that we're in column A but if we are in column C or any of the rows I think the right move is to massclaim (partially anyway) today.

[VictorDeAngelo]

It's also worth remembering that two vt have already claimed so the pool of possible PRs could be as low as four players which give them a 50% chance of hitting scum tonight anyway.

[VictorDeAngelo]

We shouldn't mass claim.

Victor is either really bad town for suggesting it or rolefishy scum.

Victor have you ever played in newbies before and suggested this idea?

No, but then again I've not been in a newbie game when there hasn't been a night 1 kill.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Fine, if your against a massclaim then do something useful. Who do you think other than Rach's role is scum?

[VictorDeAngelo]

And everyone else should say whether they are for or against some sort of massclaim in their next post.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Congrats Bins and Mala for winning.

Well I was pretty sure on Clusk and I thought I needed to do some extra convincing for N_M. The story in my head made sense concerning Clusk and the night 1 kill.
Mala, why did you try to kill me??

That was my doing. And it's really your thought cause if you weren't such good town mafia will never try and kill you