Mini 1602: Game Over


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:15 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

VC 1.11


Flames682
(5) - AGar, implosion, Aneninen, tman2nd, shaddowez
rack
(2) - phokdapolees, Flames682
tman2nd
(2) - Riabi, Malakittens
Malakittens
(1) - chaoslord54
phokdapolees
(1) - rack

Not Voting
(2) - Tammy, Elias_the_thief

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 deadline will hit in: (expired on 2014-08-31 16:48:15)

Elias_the_thief is V/LA until today.
Tammy is V/LA until the 26th.
Riabi is V/LA until the 27th.

tman2nd has been prodded.
I am beginning a replacement search for Flames682. If he posts before I find one, he keeps his slot.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:55 am

Post by tman2nd »

I'm here. Sorry for not posting lately. I'll get back to it later today. I have been reading; I just still haven't had much energy for posting because of being sick. I think I will later today. Also, I too would lie to know why I am scum in Mala's eyes. She's had that read for a while, but hasn't explained it much.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:44 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

neil1113 replaces Flames682.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:06 am

Post by neil1113 »

I don't want to make a huge post that nobody will read. So I'm going to go pages to pages, with notes and updating my scum ranking system.

Points system: 1 point for scumminess, 1 point for towniness. 0 is only for people with no read.

Tammy bussing a wagon already in RVS in her second post reads opportunstic to me, and then the "declaring I'm town" without any real reason or support is ridiculous... but it is RVS. It's a good scum opening in my opinion.

Flames following the wagon so quickly, to put someone on L-4 before they even posted, reads scummy to me.

Tammy quickly changing her vote around onto Flames for no real reason (explained yet), reads as buddying up, perhaps to her partner? There is no real scum-tell here, so no scum points awarded, but this is definitely noticed should either Flames or Tammy flip scum.

In fact the entire back and forth on Page 1 reads like teammates bickering back and forth, almost too planned to be real. If they aren't teammates, one of them is scum. Guarantee it. I'm leaning on Tammy, with her continuance insistence on how town she is.

Ugh, Elias, AGar, they both do the literally exact same thing following the pushing back and forth. One of them could easily be teammates, if Tammy / Flames is not the team. Scum points awarded for bussing in RVS.

Implosion gets the only towny points from page 1. The only person with any sensible / thought out post. The rest reads like either scummy bickering / defending of others, or true RVS with no relevance.

Where everybody sits from Page 1:

Implosion +1
Agar -1
Flames -1
Elias -1
Tammy -2

I'm going to start reading quickly through the other pages and only mentioning that which is important to me to mention for now. My goal is literally to just catch up!

(Also, I just replaced in, and just realized I replaced Flames lol. From here on out, I won't be mentioning Flames.)
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Last Editted:
9-29-11

Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
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When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:14 am

Post by Tammy »

Eeeeeewwwwwwwww

I have a proper scum read!

VOTE: neil
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:26 am

Post by neil1113 »

Page 2:

Implosion: I'm not sure where Mala lied?

Phok's line of thinking matches mine. Towny points awarded because I can (and because it's logical.) And on top of that, Pookie stuck to his guns. Which makes me think he's also not scum, because I doubt scum would be balsy enough to push a very serious case as hard as he is, on page 2... Talk about putting yourself in front of the spot light. Unless of course, Phok thinks he's great at scum, and he's a arrogant dick. But I don't get that vibe. Another townie point awarded. Page 3 confirms this point all the more.

Page 3:

Tammy's first post on Page 3 seems super awkward and forced to me. Tammy is trying really hard to buddy up to people and is using asking a lot of questions as a way to avoid actually giving content... Scum point awarded.

Elias redeems his scum nature to me, his line of questioning seems genuine. Town points awarded.

Rack matched my exact idea concerning Tammy, town points for good logic.

Tammy's response to Rack calling her out is even worse. She invalidates his opinion by trying to sum up her idea of what Rack was doing, and then telling him he's doing it wrong. She's also spreading herself out pretty thin, with general questions. They don't seem to really reveal anything about the person's alignment or motivation, but rather are a filling for a void of content. Haven't I used this accusation already against her? More scum points awarded. (Also, the brief "I'm town" reference, again, noted.) You can find this specific post, here.

Riabi has the right idea. Rack should have / should provide meta on Tammy, if it's proving Tammy is coming from a scum-motivated mindset. It makes no sense to not want to help town out in any way you can if you're town yourself? Riabi gets town points, Rack is null for the moment (his townie point before is taken away).

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! TMan, you are THE MAN! You caught what I caught that I thought nobody would catch!!!! I'm so happy. :) Townie points awarded, as it's not something you'd catch unless you were actually reading, searching for motivations. This is a town-slip, as it's not something I would imagine scum doing.

Implosion feels like he's reaching a lot here, stretching to make Rack look worse than the null points that were actually there. While I agree (as Tman pointed out after) that Rack needs to cite his sources, I don't think starting a wagon on him is a good way to make someone act townie...

Pookie +2
Tman +1
Elias +1
Riabi +1
AGar -1
Tammy -4

P.Edit: You bastard. :/ I am scum reading you, and it looks like you're scummy as hell behavior is going to lead to a vote. Now you've successfully invalidated anything I say from here on out, to make it look like it's OMGUS. Damn you.
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Total Games Played:
17

Last Editted:
9-29-11

Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
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When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:52 am

Post by neil1113 »

Page 4:

Tammy's wagon jumping is noted. Whatever sticks, right? Scum points awarded.

Rack makes me nervous now. Lied about meta concerning Tammy, to "reaction test", and then jumped on a terrible wagon based on WIFOM? Scum points finally awarded (up until Page 4, I didn't have an opinion. Now I do!)

I don't like how Rack lied, but it's interesting that Tammy called Rack's lie out before Rack admitted to it (the reaction test idea).... planned before hand?

Shadows comes in and at least is using logic that is followable. I can see where his mindset is and how he drew those conclusions, even if I disagree with some of them. Townie points awarded.

Phok is remaing cool, and staying firm with his logic, even with my predecessor pushing his slot. Dually noted. (More town points)

Rack's OMGUS on Phok makes me gag. And is a terrible deflection. Scum point awarded.

Mala's actually trying to play the game now! No more trolling, I was curious when she'd finish. When it's all said and done, I don't have a read on her yet.

Page 5:

Sigh, Tman was doing so good too. Your vote on Rack is reiiterating what everyone else is saying, and you did a complete 180 in your post from the beginning. It wasn't a long post so the 180 seems forced. You went from not sure who to vote, to absolutely feeling like "Rack was the best vote." And your excuse toward Phok is Mala's decleration of Phok's meta? That's a terrible excuse to change your read on someone. Especially considering we just went through this with Rack, the idea of giving meta as an excuse for something and not actually providing the evidence... Scum points awarded.

AGar's logic makes sense, even against my own predecessor (I had a similar opinion.) Again, I disagree with some of his points, but it reads genuine. Townie points awarded.

Implosion, all of that postings, and then you vote somebody that you said absolutely nothing about??? Oh dear... This is a null point, but still one I'm keeping my eye on as I read through.

Two things: Where did Tammy go? Some suspicion sparks up, and she disappears...
Also, Mala claims Meta on Tammy, everyone immediately accepts and not a single person asks to see it. Rack claims meta on Tammy, everyone accuses Rack, and demands to see it!

What the hell type of hypocrisy is in this game? It makes me doubt my read on Rack.

Pookie +3
Shadow +1
Riabi +1
AGar +1
TMan -1
Rack -2
Tammy -4
Show
Total Games Played:
17

Last Editted:
9-29-11

Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
-
When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:56 am

Post by Tammy »

Nothing you say about me is valid anyway because I'm

Wait for it...




Wait for it....


BATMAN!



Nah, but town!


Also ps reading is tech!
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:10 pm

Post by neil1113 »

Ahem, Tammy you just put me at L-1...

I just realized I was at L-2. Are you that confident I am scum? I would have had a slight scum read myself on Flames, but not more than you or Rack. Especially not enough to put him at L-1. Then again, I'm still on page 6 so that could change. If he ran his slot up as scummy as possible and replaced out again, I'm going to be fucking furious. This is why he's already blacklisted by several people here. And honestly, depending on my finished conclusion after my read through, if that's what he did, I'm going to call for a mod kill. That's against our town win-condition, and in the end, it fucks the town really badly considering our role.
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
-
When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:25 pm

Post by Tammy »

I'm not confident in much this game because I've barely had a chance to read. I like my town reads for the most part!

Your posts just read as a scum catch up and I was happy to finally actually have a suspect!
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:39 pm

Post by neil1113 »

Scum catch up post? Taking their time to read through the game, make reads, further town information, etc.... is a scum motivated catch up post?
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
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When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:08 pm

Post by Tammy »

Reading the game is a null tell.

It's the way you're reading the game I hate. Your tone feels way different from the way you replaced into tit for tat. I hate the oh I didn't know what slot I replaced tee hee. I hate that you don't actually seem to be reading the game from a pov where you don't know anything. Things aren't negating your first posts though they should. You immediately tried to paint me as scum bussing malakittens. Then you claim I was bickering with flames though we weren't bickering we were goofing off. That becomes abundantly clear when phok completely misunderstands that we were joking. I should have seen you go "oh I read that wrong." You didn't. Instead another persons misunderstanding enforced your incorrect interpretation.

You claim I disappeared after suspicion. I've never been under suspicion. The most I had was phok who misconstrued my interaction with flames and frustratingly enough is refusing to actually answer my questions.

Rack never suspected me and I said as much during that. Flames voted me as a joke.

Also, I literally said in my first post I wouldn't be around much until Tuesday. If I'm your biggest scum read why are you not reading my posts. You commented on my first post and that's in there.

You're also using the stupidest tell. Oh she's claimed to be town that's scummy! Except it's not and you're ignoring the people who have experience with me that this is my play style.

There should be adjustment. I see none. I see so done who had predetermined reads and is just enforcing that.

(Yes I'm self absorbed and really only reading what you said about me. I'm at a meet and barely keeping up.)
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:18 pm

Post by neil1113 »

Tell you what Tammy, when you want to actually read my posts as I read through, then we can discuss it. Until then, keep your mouth shut. Mis-repesenting someone doesn't suit you well and further proves your scumminess. Consider this a free newbie mafia tip.
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Last Editted:
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Spoiler: My Record for Mafiascum.net
#1. 5-2 Scum
#2. 3-6 Town
#3. 0-1 3rd Party
Archaebob
-
Hats off to Neil for some incredible town play.

Me=Weird
-
When I read up, I was just amazed by neil. Awesome reads.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by Tammy »

Lol
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:22 pm

Post by Tammy »

Oh hey though

Spoiler: very important message!
I'm town!
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:25 pm

Post by implosion »

neil wrote:Tammy bussing a wagon already in RVS in her second post reads opportunstic to me, and then the "declaring I'm town" without any real reason or support is ridiculous... but it is RVS. It's a good scum opening in my opinion.

I'm glad you have opinions! It's good. But unfortunately Tammy always does that as town.

(granted I've never seen Tammy's scumplay, but this game is pretty much her townplay to a T)

Implosion: I'm not sure where Mala lied?

Mala lied when she said she hadn't been voted yet.

Implosion feels like he's reaching a lot here, stretching to make Rack look worse than the null points that were actually there. While I agree (as Tman pointed out after) that Rack needs to cite his sources, I don't think starting a wagon on him is a good way to make someone act townie...

Yes. I was reaching. As a matter of fact
I explicitly said I was reaching
in post . I also think starting a wagon on someone is a wonderful way to make them act townie if they are town! It lets you see how they react, it lets you see how others react to the prospect of a wagon, it puts them under pressure to give reads/do stuff, and it puts a scumread closer to a lynch.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:30 pm

Post by Tammy »

Oh though

UNVOTE:

Still there in spirit unless he starts looking town thoug!
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:37 pm

Post by implosion »

Anywho. I'd like to call attention to this line from neil:
And honestly, depending on my finished conclusion after my read through, if that's what he did, I'm going to call for a mod kill. That's against our town win-condition, and in the end, it fucks the town really badly considering our role.

This line makes me want to punch my wall in. It also is the reason I'm not going to unvote neil.

This is the kind of post that feels like treading the line towards gamebreaking. Claiming that you might call for a modkill on your own slot because your predecessor played against the town win condition? Really. That's just really bad mannered. I find it extremely difficult to believe it was said in complete honesty.

Why is it hard to believe? Well, Flames was playing badly does not equate to flames was playing against his win condition, and for neil to claim that he thinks this might be the case is hard to believe (although if it's based on past example I'd like to see that). Why is it bad mannered? It's presumptuous: he's making this claim that we can't even address without first presuming that neil is town (that Flames was playing against the town win condition). He's claiming that he will potentially call for a modkill on his own slot because his slot is town. That's just extremely annoying. Annoying to comprehend, annoying to read, and annoying to have in the gamestate. This is further compounded by the softclaim, which turns it somewhat passive-aggressive.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:38 pm

Post by implosion »

Although honestly my desire to not unvote is kind of more out of some kind of rage than it is out of thinking his slot is scum. I really hate that post. Bleh.

Unvote
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:39 pm

Post by Tammy »

I did have to start incorporating it into my scum game depending on the player list because it became super obvious if I didn't say I was town especially after someone noticed I didn't when scum, but it's playing to certain ayers and I think always sounds fake when scum whereas when town I get a bit obnoxious about it especially if anyone seems annoyed I say it.

Pedit though yeah I hated that it felt like fake rage
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:41 pm

Post by shaddowez »

I realize I've missed some stuff since my post, so I may be answering stuff that's outdated. However, here it is:

In post 284, Elias_the_thief wrote:Okay. I'll buy that. What conclusions would you draw from a scum flip? From a town flip?


In post 286, Aneninen wrote:(2) Can you give us examples?


Going to try and answer both of these at once(ish), so if either of you feel I missed anything, please let me know.

If Flames(Neil) were to be lynched and flip town, I would be inclined to look at the people that jumped from one wagon to the other somewhere around the middle. It gives them the ability to say "We liked the evidence against him" without having to do much of anything.
If he were to flip scum, I'd look at people that jumped as early as possible for bussing.

Elias, and implosion are the two that caught my eye. They both moved their vote to somebody else in between, but they're also both in approximately (or exactly) the same position on each wagon.

Since we got a replacement, want to unvote until I can catch up some.
UNVOTE:
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:43 pm

Post by implosion »

I also just hate softclaiming in general. It also seems to happen from scum more often than town in that manner.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:09 pm

Post by Tammy »

Oh but do you want to know a rock solid town tell?

I'm at a meet, drinking and playing games with scummers and I'm posting!

Also crap I had a thought it went away.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:10 pm

Post by Tammy »

In post 312, neil1113 wrote:Tell you what Tammy, when you want to actually read my posts as I read through, then we can discuss it. Until then, keep your mouth shut. Mis-repesenting someone doesn't suit you well and further proves your scumminess. Consider this a free newbie mafia tip.



Wait dude. Did you even read what I posted?

You should muster all the fake conviction you can in your answer!
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:15 pm

Post by SleepyKrew »

mine
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