Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[Mr_Blonde]

Hey everyone!

First game back after a brief Mafia hiatus, looking forward to mixing it up with you folks.

[Mr_Blonde]

What is the point of voting for oneself? Avoiding voting someone else?

Because oneself is evil and surely out to murder everyone.

Vote: Mr_Blonde

Or more simply to waste one's voting ability.

What's up Amy? Shall we dance?

Unvote. Vote: farside22.

I'm not a fan of that random vote. Voting for a player being replaced isn't likely to cause any action.

Same premise here - wasted vote. How is this different than self voting?

[Mr_Blonde]

P-edit: Turns out the vote counted after all.

[Mr_Blonde]

I consider self voting in RVS heavily null. While I can agree on your statement that it could be used to provoke (re)actions it can likewise be used to shrug off a player's responsibility for their vote.

I would consider your action a provoked response. Wouldn't you? This doesn't say anything for Farside's motive, but it does devalue your statement somewhat.

[Mr_Blonde]

I would consider your action a provoked response. Wouldn't you? This doesn't say anything for Farside's motive, but it does devalue your statement somewhat.

Sure. I'm the kind of player who actively looks for these things. But in most games Farside's vote wouldn't get any notice. It's not so much about motive but rather a lack of motive.

Voting for a missing player isn't going to progress the game the vast majority of the time.

That's fair. So now that Farside has explained a bit - what do you think of her response?

or rather, focus on Astinus.

Mr_Blonde

, when did you replace into the game?

Today, apparently. I sent the MOD a PM this morning when I saw that he needed replacements. I was under the impression that D1 hadn't started yet, but looking back it seems I was a day late to the party.

Which is ironic, cause today is my birthday

Unvote

and

Vote Mr Blonde

Something makes me think he is mafia.

Amy seems town to me and Mr Blonde's "shall we dance" comment seems like false bravado.

These come across as mightily subjective for someone who apparently has never played before, iirc. I'm not sure how you're getting 'false bravo' from a playful statement that was followed with a smiley.

The response was my casual way of referencing to her vote on me that I couldn't see any discernable reason for.

I would consider your action a provoked response. Wouldn't you? This doesn't say anything for Farside's motive, but it does devalue your statement somewhat.

Sure. I'm the kind of player who actively looks for these things. But in most games Farside's vote wouldn't get any notice. It's not so much about motive but rather a lack of motive. Voting for a missing player isn't going to progress the game the vast majority of the time.

Depends how the replacement reacts based on my experience for me.

Mr. Blond came across pretty non plus about it. I was a bit surprised he didn't react to it.

I took it mostly as a joke. I assumed based on your wording that you had some sort of relationship with the person I replaced in for and were taking a jab at them for swapping out.

Beyond that - I didn't see any sort of merit considering you have likewise filled an abandoned slot.

[Mr_Blonde]

@mr. Blond: the difference between me and my spot and you and your spot is yours requested replaced. The mod said the person I replaced did not pick up the pm.

That makes literally no difference. It could be something as simple as my previous slot holder actually had the courtesy to respond to the MOD to seek replacement versus the others. How would you know differently?

You are using intangible evidence and supposed experience as a way to push me for a generic tell that essentially I can't defend against. That's bad on your part.

[Mr_Blonde]

@mr. Blond: the difference between me and my spot and you and your spot is yours requested replaced. The mod said the person I replaced did not pick up the pm.

That makes literally no difference. It could be something as simple as my previous slot holder actually had the courtesy to respond to the MOD to seek replacement versus the others. How would you know differently?

You are using intangible evidence and supposed experience as a way to push me for a generic tell that essentially I can't defend against. That's bad on your part.

One) as I stated previously I checked to see the player who replaced out was posting elsewhere. (2)It's early. I don't expect people to agree.
(3) mod said pm's not picked up. Did you check to see if players were still around?
I know for example ki hasn't been online since Friday.

Hold on a sec

1) What does that have anything to do with me and THIS game thread?

2) I'm not sure how the stage of the game is relevant here. You have already passed judgement on my slot based on a generic tell without allowing time to actually analyze me first. That makes you either a) derptown or b) scum.

3) No - why would I? It has nothing to do with what's ITT.

Sorry knew about ki do to ongoing game but this is the post records of whom I replaced

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 6&sr=posts

The 19th was there last post so the mod statement has more value and I know my role is town too.

You lost me on this one. Mod statement has more value than what?

[Mr_Blonde]

Unvote

and

Vote Mr Blonde

Something makes me think he is mafia.

Would you like to inform us of what that something is?
Or if it's gut feeling then are there any specific posts that provoked it?

Some examples of why he is town reading you would be sweet too.

[Mr_Blonde]

Are you saying my lack of experience in this format makes my opinion any less valid?

No. Your ambiguous language was what made me question your opinion.

'Something' makes you think I'm mafia. Amy 'seems' town. Those sort of statements. Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Also happy birthday!

Thanks!

[Mr_Blonde]

1) What does that have anything to do with me and THIS game thread?

2) I'm not sure how the stage of the game is relevant here. You have already passed judgement on my slot based on a generic tell without allowing time to actually analyze me first. That makes you either a) derptown or b) scum.

3) No - why would I? It has nothing to do with what's ITT.

Sorry knew about ki do to ongoing game but this is the post records of whom I replaced

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 6&sr=posts

The 19th was there last post so the mod statement has more value and I know my role is town too.

You lost me on this one. Mod statement has more value than what?

1) then you are not reading my post.
2) reaction and something I've seen scum do is not generic or derp
3) again you didn't read my post.

Hey you asked about my comment and stated the possible of not picking up the pm and i showed how that was invalid.

Did I misunderstand you perhaps? If so - correct my misunderstanding and better explain yourself because atm my grasp is that you are claiming my slot to be likely scum for very bad reasons. Ones that can't be backed through evidence in thread or that were even done by me.

Again - what does my prior slot holder's action PRE GAME have anything to do with me here and now? If you think that by them replacing out is some sort of tell, then fine, but how do you reconcile that idea now that I am present and actively posting/engaging you?

Can you reconcile it?

These come across as mightily subjective for someone who apparently has never played before, iirc

What are you getting at here?

That I wouldn't expect commentary like that from a player who was supposedly new to Mafia.

Which led me to question if he was being completely forthcoming with his experience. Which led me to question why he'd feel the need to be dishonest about his experience level, etc. He's cleared it up since saying that he has experience playing IRL but is new to forum Mafia - which I think shows a bit with how he's posted earlier. With this information in mind, he strikes me as someone who is not overly conscious of their posting style, or what they're saying, as much as a salty MSer would be for instance.

[Mr_Blonde]

Had a long day at school/work today... glad it's finally over.

I think the Farside thing has generated some good discussion. I'm in agreement with Acryon and Skelda regarding Farside's logic here, although perhaps to a lesser degree. I can

sort of

see where a Townie would think something like this, which is why I'm reticent of voting there. At the moment I am more interested in seeing her reads develop from this. She was questioned about it earlier by Toby iirc as to whether she felt her vote was still warranted and I have yet to see any follow up on that.

THAT is a bad sign imo.

I have no clue where meta came into this conversation. Nor where I even expect mr. Blond to defend my comment.
This is pretty simple people. 2 games I was in a player asked for replacement and both times those players were scum.
For me this better then average experience. Does this mea 100% lmets lynch mr. Blond. No
Did I tell people this is something that needs to happen. No
I stated a fact I have experienced.

You aren't outright saying that I should be lynched for it - no. But you used it as your reason for voting me and have since left it there despite the progression of the thread. Do you think that my play is congruent with your idea that I must be scum due to your experience? I think I have added enough content by now that you should be able to at least get SOME kind of read on me, and yet your vote remains.

So I ask plainly - do you think I am scum?

VOTE: Mr Blonde, sorry I missed your birthday. Have a belated b-day vote.

Thanks?

Any opinion on what's happened thus far?

If I were to pick out my two strongest townreads at this point (yes, it is exceptionally early in the game, but just from the little data we have so far), they would be acryon and Skelda. Both have posted fairly thorough posts which have a good amount of analysis and opinion in there, both of which have contained some original (i.e. not re-worded off someone else) analysis.

I can see how you'd have these two are your top townreads. I would consider Acryon one of mine as well for his earlier post stating his opinion on the current content as well as his statement regarding RVS votes - which I likewise agree with.

I like Skelda's commentary regarding Farside and the votes by Beli and Chaos.

I personally have Acryon, DF, and Duckling all as town leans atm.

Do you have any player(s) that you're leaning scum on currently besides Beli?

Unvote: TobyLoby

...

Toby still peaks my town list, but again, these are all page four reads so take them with a truckload of salt.

Toby is your #1 town read? Can you explain the vote/unvote?

Some people think Astinus may be a troll alt account, so I don't know how serious to take them or whether you can apply newb-tells to them.

Is this really a thing that happens here? lol

[Mr_Blonde]

Oh, and VOTE: Chaos

While I'm not ready to clear Farside as derptown, I can see how

maybe

she is. Until I see more to give me a better read, I think some pressure would be good in this direction considering the ease in which he jumped onto the wagon.

[Mr_Blonde]

@MOD - I'll be V/LA through the weekend. Have some family coming into town although I *should* be able to post at least once a day.

[Mr_Blonde]

Reading up.

[Mr_Blonde]

Amy

, what are your thoughts on farside?

I can see that farside isn't simply pushing her replacement tell (I'll call it that for now). She's also involved in other elements of the game, commenting and asking question, so townpoints to her in that respect, as I've noticed that sometimes scum looking to lynch town tend to spend all their time focusing on their lynch target of choice.
As for her replacement tell, whatever my personal thoughts on it may be, it looks like she genuinely believes in it. Scum using it ONLY to lynch someone would've probably dropped the case much earlier without bothering to do things like bringing up evidence.

She is also analyzing Mr Blonde's reactions, adding to the fact that it's genuine.

So I'd say I can classify farside as Null/Town.

Where have you seen this analysis?

Unvote

and

Vote Mr Blonde

Something makes me think he is mafia.

Would you like to inform us of what that something is?
Or if it's gut feeling then are there any specific posts that provoked it?

Some examples of why he is town reading you would be sweet too.

Just feelings I got. No hard evidence obviously. Specific post would be 28 though in hindsight it doesn't look as bad as I thought. I guess it was just going off what had been posted so far though now that more things have been posted, that doesn't stick out as much to me any more.

Amy seems town just because I feel like I want to trust her for some reason. Do I

need

a reason? Haha because I don't have one.

Interesting that you both asked questions to me about each other.

Need

is probably a bit stronger of a word than necessary. But you

should

have a reason for why you think she's town. Even if it's just gut or 'tone' (how their posts read) you should be able to give some explanation as to why you feel the way you do regarding other players.

One of the best tools that I've found playing forum Mafia to catch scum is by looking for consistency from others. Are their explanations plausible? Do I agree with the conclusion they come to based on the evidence they use to support it? Basically - do the dots connect? Now this isn't 100% sure-fire going to catch you scum, but it has worked for me a lot in the past. Scum tend to have a hard time faking internal consistency and over a period of time that becomes glaringly obvious.

Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Fair enough but I rarely find reasons to suspect people other than arbitrary ones so prepare to give me a lot of stink eyes.

Townpoints for the above post.

While I partially agree with acryon and hope you find some legitimate reasons too, this post jumps out to me as towny, if only because I can't really see scum, especially newbie scum, replying in that way.

I've already declared Duckling as town for his free-flowing posts. Get your own read

Chaos' post,

Also, your case against Mr.Blonde has no real evidence against it and I do not understand why a wagon is building on him so early because of a post where he said "let's dance."

I do find scummy, but in the past I've found it to be a stronger associative tell than a flat out. A scum coming in to defend their buddy sort of way. Two votes on a buddy may look more dire than it is. I can especially see this with a newer player. I suppose it could be a scum Chaos busing a scum farside and overexagerrating a wagon but I find it less likely.

I like this post.

I think the tone of the post reinforces the defensive aspect. It's a slight example of more reductio ad absurdum, whereby chaos is suggesting that the phrase 'let's dance' was the cause of a 'wagon'. Some specific wording in the post like 'no real evidence' for example, also give off a scummy vibe.

@Toby

- Please explain the bolded quote of yours that is nested here. I missed this earlier, but here you appear to be linking me with Chaos by saying that he is coming to my defense - but end the quote by saying that he could just be busing Farside as well. I'm not following here.

You are saying that two other slots could potentially be scumbros with Chaos, which essentially makes Chaos scum in either situation, but you are voting whom? Also - I feel it's very early for such associative tells, even if soft. I find it a bit troubling that you'd associate this sort of defense to automatically mean wolf/wolf instead of potentially Chaos buddying/WKing.

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell

. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

I couldn't disagree more. I also find it odd that you'd consider this a Townie post.

[Mr_Blonde]

Farside
Chaos
Toby
Skelda
Jogger

Updated null-scum list.

[Mr_Blonde]

My parents are leaving tonight, so I'll be back after I've dropped them off at the airport with some updated stuff.