[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[ika]

i would make it prison guards get vig only.

d1 massrole call is nearly borken by all the BP claiming and then the vigs claim (w/ BP) then either mafia CC and 1v1 or claim BP and then becomes POE. this would at least discourage them from outing right away.

also i would have at least one mafia (maybe 2) be BP so its not as easy to POE the entire game (tgis would make BP+vig better overall then)

[ika]

-setup-

Win conditions might need to be clarified more. And town might be too weak. May be most beneficial to add a power role and turn the cop and seer into a single bloodhound?

Personally i think the tracker is the only weak role to town. i would swap it out with a town doc. the ninjas almost make the tracker useless IMO

[ika]

-setup-

Win conditions might need to be clarified more. And town might be too weak. May be most beneficial to add a power role and turn the cop and seer into a single bloodhound?

Personally i think the tracker is the only weak role to town. i would swap it out with a town doc. the ninjas almost make the tracker useless IMO

You're not factoring what the tracker can track. Cop, Seer, Vig, Maf Doc, and Werewolf Doc. That's important. And then when a mafia ninja/werewolf ninja dies, it becomes all that more powerful.

true i look at many prs in regards to finding scums. to me tracker in this setup is either the most powerful/broken or the most damaging role when put in that perspective.

Looking back to the cop/seer, i like it how it is due to the fact each faction has to try to hunt out their counter part and not just conjointly find one pr. Plus if WW kill cop thinking it was seer, it only helps the mafia faction. imo if you were to remove both and make universal BH, i would maybe have a X-shot doctor. This way the mafia/WW doc could at least try to draw out the doc claim or have some cover and not be screwed by a tracker if they claim VT.

[ika]

Love And Treason

10 Players

1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Mafia Suicide Bomber

2 Town Lovers
2 from (Vengeful Townie, Vengeful Townie, Supersaint, Beloved Princess)
4 VTs

• Daystart
  
• Beloved Princess ability works if lynched, killed by a vengeful, or killed by a supersaint, but not by a nightkill or suicide bomb from the Mafia.

While town could massclaim and have confirmed lovers, I don't think it's optimal? Tons of good fake claims for the mafia. Thoughts? Maybe increase it to 11 and add a traitor, yeah?

well actualy is unoptimal due to fact of mafia bomber. The moment one gets outed it would be a good idea to just outright bomb to avoid affiliations and cut them short.

my only dislike is BP, bc if mafia hit lover (while botha re alive), it becomes lylo/loss next night, I would take out the part of "works by kill of SS and veng" b/c that makes it extemly scum sided when they get 2 nights of kills

[ika]

I would take out the part of "works by kill of SS and veng" b/c that makes it extemly scum sided when they get 2 nights of kills

Optimal strategy then becomes to vengekill or supersaint all beloved princess claims.

Yes thats what i woudl suspect as well, i just think with SS+vengs activating BP ability makes it heavy scum sided due to the fact that they can take out up to 3 towns and puts them into a 2v4 game...

another thing that could happen is veng shoots lovers and then BP get lynched, iirc that would be game for scums to win.

just my thoughts on it...

[ika]

if you are to keep the BP activating on SS/Veng i would add 2-3 more VT or maybe add in a protective just so it doesnt go day 2 LyLo or scum win over one lynch (unles its late game)

[ika]

the problem i see with this is that its an easy "target person below you" game

while mafia coudl try to mess it up by visiting someone else, it would quickly be outed by the incorrect results imo.

[ika]

STart it cop headstart?

i would allow mafia to also visit to try to screw stuff up (unless thats implied) otherwise i think it just goes target below and POE

[ika]

if its announced they are primed arent they just basicly inst cleared from being maf?

[ika]

i would say then that if both igniters die all primed players get auto-ignited and then the regular primer gets a regular kill or something of the sort

[ika]

shouldn't scum be punished for letting their igniters die tho?

they have one person left? isnt that punishment enough?

[ika]

shouldn't scum be punished for letting their igniters die tho?

In most cases losing all primes is a pretty big punishment, making all previous days effectively nightless

that's not such a big deal if scum get killed in the first two days, but that's counterbalancing

Yeah but
You should be able to manage one of your igniters staying alive as a scumteam. If you fail at that, I don't see why you should receive 'help' and gain a NK. In some situations with a very strong town voice, it might even be a relief to ditch your last igniter to just get the NK. It doesn't make sense.

JW, there's no reason to withhold info scum already has. Even if you don't use it, you should clam if primed or not. And as BB said, it makes it harder for scum to fakeclaim.

then just remove the set nk, the one thing they should get atleast is the auto-ignition or that last mafia may ignite themselfs but may no longer prime.

[ika]

Or make the igniter a suicide day igniter which is functionally the same but more elegant.

And still let them ignite for free at night.

that could work, i would consider to have the backup igniter be auto though ONLY if the first one never ignited. just in case town blitz hammers

edit: then the question would be if hes going to be hammered, can he self vote for hammer + ignite?

[ika]

have the second mafia gain BP

[ika]

have the second mafia gain BP

And have them start as Mafia Doc/Goon or two goons?

i would do doc/goon first the have other be full BP. and the mafias can deicde who gets doc in pregame.

but i did already get ninjaed

[ika]

personally i would make it nightless and have them submit actions. unless maf only has night chats.

it would be intresting to experiment with maf day chats in this setup

[ika]

the just bp each ohter in doc chain or all docs claim and bp chian them themlfs

[ika]

even being macho is not ideal by the fire+ice cancle each other attack.

and even then, it just goes watcher on cop and you have 1-2 goons outed as well as a possible doc found to watch

ill prob have better imput later

[ika]

my argument is too many VTs. it will become too boring for many imo

make it a C++ variation type thing would probally be a better idea if you want large numbers

[ika]

Interesting. Thanks for taking it a step further.

Thank you!

I like the thought of the dual roleblockers, because it really nails down any claiming nonsense. That, and those RB possibilities make it interesting. They wouldn't be able to RB each other either. That'd be kind cool if

Fire Mafia

RB'd

Ice Mafia

who tried to NK or Cop another member of

Fire Mafia

. Hm... Tactical...

Do you think I should leave it as is, or try to tech in some weaker PRs to make it more interesting?

What if instead of a Town Doctor were used, two elemental Docs were used instead? And/or add in elemental 1-Shot PGOs, too?

I'd like to make the game as duality-based as possible. Elemental counterparts.

theres a flaw in the rb/cop claimers idea your trying to set

the 2 town cops can ust claim cop w/o claiming who they find. it essensaly makes more wifom games. plus its entirely negated by just outright killing them but you have 2 cops who dont have claimed who they find so both teams are going to most likely do coin flips on who to kill and could just waste their time.

they could argubly both RB one kill other, but it still leads to same thing of they are still around

[ika]

What ideas do you want implemented in this setup in particular

Mainly I want it like a Large Fire and Ice where the NKs on each other turn into Cop guilties. Instead of 12:2:2, try 15:3:3.

That's pretty much it. I'd like to keep it at 21 while having it balanced and not boring. Multiple, randomized Neighborhoods and Scum teams with Daytalk, too. I created a game like this with 16 players offsite, and that game has been epic with over 4,000 posts, and a combined 2,000+ posts in Neighborhood QT discussion, strategy, and interest.

the problem is wake, those games are full of newer players (minus a few here and there)

in neighborhoods, my intial thought is to suspect everyone and trust nobody, its even easyier for scums to just dismantle a neighborhood and destroy it.

if you ever take a look into the alicae in wonderland game you will see that the scums just manipulate neighborhoods to an extent, and the one that had none exploded into a fight.

add in daytalk and scums can easily communicate all things going on at once if they get randomized into all the hoods. a neighborhood (imo) is ment to talk about players in secretive. if its known that scums can exist in all of them i would never post in there.

[ika]

Mass Paranoia

21 Players

3 Mafia 1-shot PGOs

3 Werewolf 1-shot PGOs

15 Town 1-shot PGOs

• Daystart
  
• The PGO ability does not passively activate. The PGO ability can be used on one night of the players choosing.
  
• All who use a PGO ability in the same night join a neighborhood together. This neighborhood has daytalk and will exist for the rest of the game.
  
• Mafia are bulletproof to Werewolf kills and Werewolves are bulletproof to Mafia kills. However, if a Mafia activates PGO and a Werewolf tries to kill him, the Werewolf dies. This works the other way around too.
  
• 1:1:1 situations automatically no lynch.
  
• Scum have daytalk.

k done. You could potentially add a vig too probably. Or some other power role.

i would add in options ot have mafia/WW to opt for no-kills

troll: in b4 everyone activates n1

I totally want into this game when you make it. The offsite one is a blast.

Absolutely.

Two problems, though. The Open Queue takes around two years for a game to enter Signups

wtf man, is this place ran by the government?

not really, the stie just has an organized system

[ika]

not really, the stie just has an organized system

Most bureaucracies are... they're so organized that nothing gets accomplished!

a lot gets accomplished actualy, its a huge dleay so they dont have burnouts of 500 games of flakers.

(by the way... you can't take me seriously. It'll do your head in)

who said i was?

[ika]

day 1 mass rolecall: GG

[ika]

i would still say mass rolecall=GG

[ika]

tracker claims day 1, you now have an ic-like player due to jailkeeper just jailkeeping him over and over to protect.

i would make the mafias vengeful to accomidate for the next lynch to take out the proposed plan stated above

argubly, this game could be won by scums in one night if they lynch VT first and then consecutively kill all the prs

i think it has a good potnetiona i will give more later

[ika]

i would make the goon a backup framer.

if they lynch framer day 1, it becomes hugly townsided imo by the fact cops claim day 2 with results and then figure sanities and can then POE game

[ika]

so cop headstart?

its not bad, i think this would be a nice game to test out in micro/marathon

cops just flip cop on death as well right?

i assume yes but just want to make sure

[ika]

if its 3p veng, whats to stop everyone form going "selfvote" and stall?

[ika]

no.

your still adding in alignment changing and traitor is to be scum from start, none of the zombie setups are ment for opens. do them in theme/micro

[ika]

Why is alignment changing such a no-no?

Do you like having your win condition change half-way though a game?

If you somehow do, can you please explain how you manage to do that with a day phases of 2 weeks of each alignment?
and other people having theirs changed as well.

addin in to this, what happens if zombie gets lynched day 1? now we have 3v9 (after nk) and leaves then with 2 myslynches beofre they gain majority

and does it affect scums? how would that resolve? what happens when all scums get zombied? no more nk then. then they can just go "hey no lynch lets all be converted and we all win"

[ika]

mafia hits the betrayer and and instant lylo

no

[ika]

Mr. Rogers Alt Account

i want to hear confirmation form the listmods about that one.

[ika]

i was thinking of that one too BB.

[ika]

your basicly having a setup where its:

nobody shoots and its mountainous
or
everyone shoots and hope for best

again its a mixture of luck (hoping your not a self-shooting), and hoping you got good reads when you fired the shot

[ika]

my only problem with that is that friendly neighbor can easily be outed if everyone claims who they are neighbors with

otherwise i looks like its moutan mafai minus neighbor+FN

[ika]

1)Should the friendly get outed earlier there are still means for the town to get confirmeds

1)Cause of how the setup is open, the moment a mafia is lynched, that guy's neighbor is confirmed town

2)I think this and the fear of outing the friendly may encourage town players to claim late.

Momentum is gonna be important in the game

1) i would argue an early (d2) massclaim is better then late

2) but that same fear would also be used to try to out them day 1.

your main problem does lie withing the "scum lynched other is town", you could just do randomization of neighborhood distribution so its all WIFOM

my only problem with that is that friendly neighbor can easily be outed if everyone claims who they are neighbors with

the incentive for everyone to keep their hoods hidden is the best thing about this setup

the friendly neighbor is redundant since he can already confirm himself by claiming

I'd change him to a lonely townie

i was thinking of making it a "named townie"

[ika]

7v2 is lylo?

[ika]

you could always make the lone town a cop/doc or an X-shot variation

i see your problem but theres nto much you can exactly do

[ika]

Been playing around with a Popcorn variant...

9x Vanilla Town
2x Mafia Goon

*Day works as normal
*At nights mafia have the power to give a VT a gun to shoot for the night. If the VT hits town, the shooter dies. If the VT hits scum, the shooter lives and scum dies.
*During one night of scum's choice, they can kill as normal instead of giving town a gun

the gun gets passed out at end of day right?

assuming so i feel like its slightly townsided due to the fact that town has not only the lynch but now a gun

[ika]

Make the goon a backup switched in case first one gets lynched on a day 1 it makes it real easy to play a follow cop with innos

[ika]

weak is prob more town utility then neg utility cus i mean you give and invention persons confimred town.