Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[Thesp]

UNVOTE: tn5421

(I may re-vote this, but since I don't know anything about the gamestate right now, I want to make a vote on my own terms rather than my predecessor's.)

Hello everyone! I have quite a monumental task ahead of me reading this game, so it will likely be tomorrow before I have a substantive post. However, I would like to get summaries of the gamestate from people (from everyone, ideally). I will not use this in lieu of reading for myself, but it will help me get a sense of how you perceive the game (and ultimately hopefully a glimpse of your alignment as well). It doesn't have to be long, even a sentence or two will suffice, but I think summaries might be useful. Thanks in advance!

[Thesp]

yaaay thesp !

Yaaay Bins!

Hi newguy. Hope you like to jam.

Hi! I do like jam, especially grape!

I've enjoyed the opening pages...to an extent. =P I found myself having to actively remember that players aren't necessarily lurking in the first 10 pages simply by only having posted once or twice in that duration. I'm also torn between not taking this game seriously at all, or being all SRS BIZNESS GUYZ to get real votes. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Some posts I found amusing/agreeable:

Spoiler: Asides

nobody told me I signed up for a marathon game.

Yup. Yeesh!

It's basically

tn- WAAAAAAH THERES SO MUCH FLUFF

me- Shining pinnacle of obvtown

Sakura- SCUMREAD ME IF YOU DARE

bins- *bats eyes* don't lynch me pls

bulge- ima do isos coz u mothafuckas be spammy

varsoon- idk what he is doing but he called me scum

titus- stop the violence

team 9- somehow townreading tn

flubber- what people want to know about my past games!11!!11!!

dave- hi guys im new here

WIN

I feel like if we lolflashlynch one of the random minimum posters were gonna have a scum lynch.

Agreed!

Alright, so here are some of my thoughts on the game.

• I'm going to be more active on weekdays, but I imagine my activity will drop precipitously on weekends. (That will be especially true this weekend - I'm hosting a Bridge Day tomorrow, then going to a concert in the evening, then boardgaming with friends after church on Sunday.) If we're seriously doing 50 pages every three days, it's going to be incredibly hard to get useful reads, and it's going to be a lot easier for scum to cover their tracks. I don't want to discourage content (especially since there are a number of players significantly lacking in it so far), but I don't want to encourage bloat.
• I don't find either of tn5421/Sakura Hana interesting for a vote. At this juncture, I like Sakura Hana less of the two of them, but I'm not terribly interested in voting for either. I'm not interested in voting for Bins.
• I have a number of town reads of various qualities, but I'm hesitant to go too deep into many of them simply because I don't want to help scum tonight. I am willing to discuss views on specific people if desired, and I am likely to pipe up if I think wagons are headed in the wrong direction, but I doubt I'll do much beyond that.
• Is it worth trying to break the game at this point?
  Since we don't have any claims yet,
  I'm pondering the utility of having the cop claim, and us no-lynching, with the presumed strategy of a doctor in one half of the list protect the claimed cop, and a doctor on the other half protect someone else
  . It has a roughly 50% chance of us having split docs (which would be FANTASTIC), and in the other 50% chance we would be able to help narrow eventual doc claims because we'd be able to see which list they were on. Thoughts? (OBVIOUSLY THE COP SHOULD NOT CLAIM UNTIL THERE IS ANY CONSENSUS ON THIS.)
• I appreciate the few summaries I got. They were helpful to me.

There are a number of different avenues I like, and I think I'd be happiest pursuing our undercontributors.

VOTE: The Bulge

Post or perish.

I'd be quite happy to move my vote to several of the other votees right now (specifically, SXTLHGaiden, startfromtheheart, or davesaz), and would do so to secure a claim and/or lynch before deadline. In the meanwhile, I'd most appreciate some consideration of the thought of trying to break the setup. I'm happy to answer specific or general questions as well.

I'll have some followup questions for a few people in my next post, I imagine.

[Thesp]

Well there's also the "Cop claims" > "Doctors flip a coin" i suggested earlier. but that has roughly 50% chance of failing just like yours.

It does, yes, though mine has the added bonus of putting the doctors in a group to bolster their claim/deter scum from fake-claiming. Do you think it's worth taking that chance? (Please remind me, as I can't recall your conclusion, and it might have been embedded in some of the walls of yours I glossed over.) I'm inclined to think it's worth the chance (because the upside is so huge, and the downside isn't likely significantly worse than we're likely to get anyway), but willing to hear some other opinions on it.

[Thesp]

In the previous iteration i played the cop forgot that both doctors protecting him would render the protection useless and claimed out of nowhere, to try to fix it i proposed the strategy that both doctors flip a coin about protecting him or not.

Good, so you have some prior experience with it. In my version, we wouldn't have coin-flipping, which would mean that if the protection is successful the first night, it would be successful every night until scum kill a doctor. (That could be fixed in the coin-flipping situation as well by having the doctors carry out the same action they had on previous nights, but I digress.)

I still wasn't able to figure out from your answer though - do you think it'd be worthwhile to take that 50% risk

now in this game

?

[Thesp]

In either case tho I don't think the plan will work, because I already did something stupid.

Howso? Forgive me for not following you well here. What "something stupid" have you done that would preclude this from being effective in this game?

[Thesp]

Bridge Day was a smashing success, House of Heroes was AMAZING, and my kids and boardgaming event was exhausting but good. Time to find some scum.

I am disappointed that Sakura Hana is the only person who took my game-breaking attempt seriously, and Varsoon only seems to have skimmed along with it without commenting further on it. Does one one else care about the possibility, is it something you think is tactically poor, do you not want to do it out of a sense of fair play, or what? (PPE based on startfromtheheart's VT claim in #1685 - lynching startfromtheheart may be a better play now, actually, if we decided to go down this route, but I'm beginning to think my few posts on this are going to be washed out in the midnight spam that seems to wash over this thread.)

My ongoing thoughts below the line, with specific questions to people highlighted in bold for ease.

---

I lied I'm not going to bed quite yet because I've been missing marathon weekends.

yea yea priorities, avoiding the thread, etc etc. No. Committing to a re-read and seriously playing a game is very different from playing a marathon. Especially when I'm ready to collapse from travelling.

my scum read on you is also based on POE, and the things you've done while you've been here (aka nothing)

town who lurk at least have some thoughts that they drop by during their limited time in the thread. scum who lurk try to fly under the radar, and generally don't post anything (which is what you're doing)

when they're called on it, they also tend to use "I haven't even done anything!" as a defense, as opposed to refuting the arguments against them (which is also what you're doing)

during your limited time in this thread, you picked up on the fact that MVP was an alt slip of this slot. you've clearly read the thread to some extent. what are your current reads?

-Rumia

This post is full of win. I'm really happy with my vote on The Bulge, and have found his posting since the beginning of activity to be lacking in town content.

---

Actually, I lied.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Huh? (Oh - explained in 1648. Flubbernugget is actually the one of you all I think is most likely to be town. So I disagree with you here.)

---

I'm not sure I buy the PoE, at least not wholesale. If the only reason you have scum reads on people is that they're the only ones you don't have town reads on, it means the scum are improbably good. Unless the town is also unusually inactive, having all scum inactive/fluffy raises the odds that scum will be lynched early. I don't believe it's likely for all 3 scum to lay low. I think at least one of them would be active, and if they were active then they'd be making a case on someone who was town read by other players. Or the active scum is making a case on an inactive / lurker / contentless player.

Hmm, I had to edit that several times while writing it. Hoping it makes sense...

Make that a case on an inactive/apathetic townie. So either all scum are active, or Team 9 is at least a weak town read. (if one or more scum inactive then Team 9 would have to be bus reading -- not completely out of the question but IMO not likely this early)

From one of the least active players in the game, this feels very self-serving. A davesaz wagon wouldn't make me cry (even if I'm not keen on its current sole adherent).

---

The Bulge

, when did you begin thinking Team 9 was scum? Why?

---

Yeah you're town

I agree

notscience

, where does this come from?

---

Bins

, why do you think The Bulge is town?

[Thesp]

Not sure how you see it as self serving. I may be least active in terms of total post count, but that's because I'm incapable of posting fluff. Look inside my iso and you'll see .

I'm not persuaded.

Are you still happy with your vote on SXTLHGaiden? Why or why not?

---

I don't like 22's entrance to the game, and I'm trying to separate the vote on me from that distaste.

---

notscience

, I'm re-quoting part of my previous post directed to you, in case you missed it:

Yeah you're town

I agree

notscience

, where does this come from?

[Thesp]

That being said, I'd like to hear more from the other people on my wagon and not just Team 9 and Sakura. Address me! Ask me questions! Maybe I'll scumslip!

This may feel like I'm asking something you feel like you've already stated, but I'd like you to give me a succinct answer, please:

The Bulge

, when did you begin thinking Team 9 was scum? Why?

[Thesp]

Not sure how you see it as self serving. I may be least active in terms of total post count, but that's because I'm incapable of posting fluff. Look inside my iso and you'll see .

I'm not persuaded.

Are you still happy with your vote on SXTLHGaiden? Why or why not?

As a matter of fact, I am quite satisfied with it. Gaiden is taking great care to post enough to not be force replaced, but doing absolutely nothing pro-town. The only activity worth the name is an OMGUS on me, once it became clear my RVS vote had turned into a real read. Since it seems unlikely that anyone is going to care about this, I suppose I'll eventually drop it and move on. Though the "told you so" will be very sweet if Gaiden turns up scum later. Some might say I could make an equal case for notscience or startfromtheheart. At least they're showing some real activity. Not much, but some.

I have a serious problem with the Bulge wagon. The Bulge claimed that the V/LA time wasn't just limited access, it was next to no access. I know exactly what that is like, have been in similar situations myself. Team 9's case started off being about inactivity, and then turned nasty when Bulge made a mistake, retracted it, and then screwed up an explanation of the retraction. I don't think it's my place to repair the issue, but I'm not convinced at all by Team 9's argument. Lack of eloquence doesn't necessarily equal scumminess.

I agree with an earlier comment (perhaps by you) that having so much posting actually makes it easier for scum to hide. I stated already, at least one scum is certainly active, and I'd be very surprised if they're not among the most active. Having such a deluge of material to wade through will make it very hard to find the lies, and having probtown shoot themselves in the foot isn't going to make it any easier.

If I were to take body of work into account, at this point in time I'd say that Sakura makes sense for scum. This is not based on specific posts, just a general feel based on all the "Team 9 is town and so am I -- you'd better not disagree with us" type material. (note, this may have never been said -- I'm not quoting tonight because I'm in a hurry)

I disagree with you on The Bulge, and I could be convinced on Sakura (but I think there are plenty in line ahead of her), but I really like this post. I agree with you on SXTLHGaiden, and if my vote weren't on The Bulge (which I'm quite happy with), it'd likely be on SXTLHGaiden.

(Have a safe trip!)

---

SXTLHGaiden

, are you happy with your vote on davesaz? Why or why not?

[Thesp]

I don't think 22 is scum.

Why?

I've felt like you're town, while thinking you've been off on most of your reads throughout the game. But this particular read really confounds me. (I could understand a pronouncement that 22 hasn't done anything alignment-indicative, but I don't see where a pronouncement of "not scum" comes from.)

[Thesp]

I don't think 22 is scum.

Why?

I've felt like you're town, while thinking you've been off on most of your reads throughout the game. But this particular read really confounds me. (I could understand a pronouncement that 22 hasn't done anything alignment-indicative, but I don't see where a pronouncement of "not scum" comes from.)

I really don't see 22 as scum either right now. Like all they've really done is defend the Bulge, which you are townreading Dave for doing. What about 22's defense don't you like?

It's not so much the defense of The Bulge (as their argument is entirely unpersuasive), but their entry into the game is very explicitly "let's go with something fairly arbitrary, announce how arbitrary it is, and stick with it". It's designed to be absurd and entirely excusable. I can see it as being alignment-neutral, but I can't fathom how it looks town-like in any way.

(I acknowledge that part of this may be personal irritation, as when I replaced in I spent a not-insignificant amount of time reading the game and taking notes, whereas 22 seems disinclined to put in the effort. I am trying to separate this personal irritation with how I read 22. I am unsure how successful I am in this endeavor.)

[Thesp]

And I'd like to think from scum's shoes that when you replace into a game, you at least read a bit, and then take a stance on the major wagon. Especially people who are experienced with the game who wouldn't just avoid a wagon.

I'd like to think you'd do the same thing from town's shoes.

[Thesp]

And I'd like to think from scum's shoes that when you replace into a game, you at least read a bit, and then take a stance on the major wagon. Especially people who are experienced with the game who wouldn't just avoid a wagon.

I'd like to think you'd do the same thing from town's shoes.

Of course, that's a reasonable thing to expect. But I think general "apathetic carelessness" reads town.

I think I understand why I think so many of your reads in this game have been bad.

[Thesp]

I'm glad I have been following the thread - I was halfway through working on a program to give us odds on doing follow-the-cop. No need to do that now.

ika, I disagree on voting for who the cop checks. I think it makes it too easy for the scum to hunt the cop. I think it's better (at this point) to play it straight.

I've been saddened by the replace-outs and hurt feelings here, and feel sort of weird about it all right now.

notscience

, I had actually drafted a post yesterday I intended to post in the Mafia Discussion forums after this game was over, but it seems appropriate to post now. (It's behind the spoiler because it's longish and I'm not sure how game-relevant it is, but maybe it will be helpful to you.)

Spoiler: It's Okay to Be Wrong

There's something I've noticed in games recently. It may have been prevalent years before and I was less aware of it, or it simply may be more common lately, but it's been noticeable. Some people seem to be ignoring (or unaware) of a simple facet of human interaction -

reasonable people can disagree on some things

. This is particularly notable in Mafia, where cold hard facts are ridiculously rare. So often in reading people, reasonable people with town-motivations can come to different conclusions about people. (Yes, it's tricky figuring out when it's misguided-town or scum-motivated, but that's part of the game!) So here's the truth I want to convey regarding any game of uncertainty:

Other players have the right to be wrong.

Let's face it - we've

all

been wrong while playing Mafia before. Sure, you have your best guesses, and some players are better than others at guessing who's scum and who's town. However, no one has 100% accuracy,

or even has close

to 100% accuracy. We're going to be wrong sometimes. We'll misread people from time to time. Sometimes scum are quite good and fool us well.

That's okay!

It's part and parcel of the game. When other people disagree with your reads, it very well may be that they're wrong. That's how it goes sometimes, and that doesn't automatically mean they're an idiot for it. (There are even quite a few times, from an epistemological standpoint, where two town players have different reads on the same player and

both

players are epistemically justified in believing the way they do. That's not a flaw in a person or system, that's just the nature of any game which deals with uncertainty like Mafia does.)

This also entails a corollary principle which is just as important:

You have the right to be wrong, and sometimes you will be wrong.

It's pretty freeing to acknowledge both of these truths! You don't have to hate someone for disagreeing with you! You can take some reasonable guesses without worrying so much about having to be absolutely right! You can

have fun

with other players because you can be at each others throats without being a jerk about it. Try it - it makes for better and more enjoyable games all around.

Thoughts?

---

N.B. - I created this post while I was playing in Open 569, which featured an unusual number of voluntary replace-outs due to personality clashes. I believe I would have made a similar post whether I was playing in the game or not given some other games I previously witnessed, but out of an abundance of caution, I embargoed this post until it was complete. Consequently, it contains no conscious or unconscious references to other games.

Start up there is actively doing nothing, but nobody is calling him out for it.

Not saying I have a read on it as of yet, but it's weird as hell that nobody else seems to either.

I agree on this. (I also think similarly on SXTLHGaiden.)

I'm getting kind of irritated that this game is going on so blasted long. I don't know if it's even fair to express that, though, seeing that some people are enjoying the billion-pages-a-day-with-lots-and-lots-of-fluff-posting pace, so I don't know what to say. I suppose I'll just state that my preference is to get a lynch soon, and I think that the continued pace of this game is bad for scumhunting.

Stop fucking spamming. It took me long enough to catch up since yesterday.

Agreed.

I'm so low on that list, it's painful.
I guess I was always the sort of loser who gets suspected.

I think voting for the cop check is the best. It clears up who we all think is most likely to be scum.
The primary issue I have with it, though, is that:
This outs the cop on D2.
There's no strat to protect the cop N1 outside of blind guessing.

So, basically, we need a cop claim now. The issue is that, if Team 9 isn't lying, then Team 9's dead in the water tonight and we're down to a macho cop and a macho doc.

:l

NONONONONONONO

The cop protection is obscurity. Outing him is

terribad

.

FOS: Varsoon.

I'm not interested in a 22 lynch today, and I also think any ambition to break a record for D1 posting pages is anti-town. I'm tempted to vote the spammers just to make it stop.

I'm not done with posting, but I just want to get this down before another frickin' post is made.

[Thesp]

The Bulge isn't going to be lynched today. Looking at the people not on the wagon, enough have expressed disinterest in the wagon (or active opposition) that it can't make.

UNVOTE: The Bulge
VOTE: SXTLHGaiden

I want real pressure on the people who are deliberately not providing content. I would happily move my vote to startfromtheheart (

especially

if it puts an end to the posting diarrhoea).

[Thesp]

We will deal with what the cop should do tomorrow. Let me suffice it to say that I think they should remain as underground as possible. Time to put these votes to good use. (I'm going to try to do a temp votecount meanwhile.)

[Thesp]

Unofficial Votecount

The Bulge

(4): Team 9, Varsoon, tn5421, notscience

22

(2): ika, startfromtheheart

SXTLHGaiden

(2): davesaz, Thesp

Team 9

(1): The Bulge

davesaz

(1): SXTLHGaiden

Bins

(1): Flubbernugget

Thesp

(1): 22

Not Voting

(1): Bins


Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Thesp]

soooo, why isn't the bulge gonna get lynched? is that the only reason you moved your vote?
Would any lynch satisfy you?

See the reason I gave when making the vote switch:

The Bulge isn't going to be lynched today. Looking at the people not on the wagon, enough have expressed disinterest in the wagon (or active opposition) that it can't make.

I'm explicitly disinterested in a 22 lynch (as stated). There are various other players I would oppose wagons/lynches on.

What about you? Do you still like your vote on davesaz? Why or why not?

[Thesp]

just an announcement when we do cop claims d2 it is to be your first post

no

[Thesp]

VOTE: Bulge
L-1 again.

I'm showing him at L-2, but I'm willing to move my vote back to him. I won't yet because there are several players here I don't trust not to lolhammer before a claim. If there is someone else willing to vote/lynch The Bulge, they should so state.

[Thesp]

VOTE: team 9

kill this with fire.

22 is also prob scum, titus/thesp is town, buldge is town

thats what i have offhand

here ill save time thesp:

i have full intent o hammer. if this entire fuckign day is going to be over bludge i rather just lynch him and remove it so we dont have day 2 going "oh buldges i here, oh buldge is here" shit

What's changed for you between these two posts?

---

Thesp, has Bulge's input not improved now that he is back from his VLA? Did you not like how he responded to Team 9?

I can't think of anything I've liked of his this game, actually. I don't think I've seen a post of his and thought "Huh, that's probably town".

[Thesp]

What's changed for you between these two posts?

my mood. im already pissed off enough by this game.

Why? Serious question. You've entered the game in a deliberately abrasive manner (re: hammering players, at the least), and seem surprised that some people aren't keen on it. For example, you posted:

IT MAKES FUCKING SENSE TO FUCKIGN ME. I DONT GIVE A FUCKIGN SHIT IF IM SPAMMY LITTLE NAT.

Now, in the particular exchange quoted here, I don't think 22 is blameless, and he's said some things he ought not to from a human standpoint. I'll note that you're far from the only one in this game who has been deliberately provocative, then seemingly irritated with how people react to it.

It might be worthwhile to step back for a moment from the game and give it a set of fresh eyes. At the risk of this day prolonging even longer, I'm not moving my vote back to The Bulge when 2 players on the wagon seem to be on tilt, and I'm willing to wait a day to see if they're still solid with their votes before moving back. (I also like how SXTLHGaiden seems to be putting forth some minimal effort into the game with my vote there.)

[Thesp]

22 is town.

This.

---

I think Bulge's 2655 answers a lot. It's the sort of thing I'd do if I was in his position.

Double down on a claimed Doc? That's insane.

Seriously. Why on earth is lynching a claimed doc even a reasonable thought in this setup on D1? Is there any expectation he'll live to endgame? If he's scum and still alive, lynch him al LyLo. There's ZERO downside - make the scum kill him.

The best play

even if we thought with 95% certainty that Team 9 was scum

is to wait to lynch him until LyLo, since there's no chance he's a mafia power role, and we know how many there are.

Why is this even being considered?

[Thesp]

Because Team 9 is making a scum power play. Sure, he gets lynched down the line, but he also potentially outs all of our PRs.

How??? Are all our power roles claiming? Are

any

of them claiming? (Hint: No - and they shouldn't.) I also have no idea how

him claiming as scum

would end up killing the cop. It makes no sense. (And in the case that he

is

the Doctor, which I think is crazy likely right now, the Cop is un-protectable for the rest of the game.)

[Thesp]

I'm still not sure why we need a system of faking claimed investigations (which narrows down the potential cop pool for scum and/or allows them to play WIFOM with their kills), when good ol'-fashioned "look at the dead cop's post history to see what they crumbed" is incredibly effective.

---

Show me.

We both agree Thesp is smart, yes? And we agree that he has represented himself as having materially read the game, yes?

This is his ISO

Now just grab a sheet of paper, open Notepad, whatever, and make a tick every time he says something insightful about the game that is

not

setup speculation. Remember, setup speculation is alignment neutral - it could be happening in Mafia Discussion, about this exact setup, with zero game roles, and people will tend to post in game what they would in MD. We are not talking opportunistic "X said something scummy, FOS/Vote/etc". Something that indicates that Thesp - an intelligent person - is looking and analyzing the players. Not the roles, not the claims, the players.

Double dog dare you to find a single thing that wasn't opportunistic finger pointing, setup discussion, general philosophy winges, or random "my thoughts about events on the past few pages". What does that say? Is he smart enough to have insights on player's mentalities? Or is he too stupid to have that insight? Or is he just finding it really hard to do actual analysis of a player for

some reason

?

I came up with 29 tick marks. Is that close to the number you had for 24 posts in a week? What number do you think would be a sufficient bar at this point?

Do you think I have done the least player analysis and inquiry, or are there others that have done less but are less interesting to you for whatever reason?

---

I'm still quite happy with my vote on SXTLHGaiden, who continues to not contribute in meaningful ways. I'd like to see the two votes on Team 9 (from The Bulge and Team 9 (‽)) move somewhere useful. (Same with Flubbernugget, unless he's convinced he can break the bloc of ~7 voters who have expressed disinterest in a The Bulge lynch, particularly since he's now solo on The Bulge.)

[Thesp]

I'm still quite happy with my vote on SXTLHGaiden, who continues to not contribute in meaningful ways. I'd like to see the two votes on Team 9 (from The Bulge and Team 9 (‽)) move somewhere useful. (Same with Flubbernugget, unless he's convinced he can break the bloc of ~7 voters who have expressed disinterest in a The Bulge lynch, particularly since he's now solo on The Bulge.)

I'll ignore your biased and inaccurate review of your own posting (scum argues their posting is not scummy, news at 11).

Now why do you appear to be voting or threatening to vote people based on some arbitrary "utility" to the town? Do you really think this is how scumhunting occurs? "SXTL is of lower utility than X, so I am voting him"? Is that the base standard here?

Because Thesp, I wouldn't expect that sort of logic outside of a newbie game. "The IC is really helpful! They must be town because they're providing so much help! This other guy doesn't even seem to know what the game is, that must be scum!" The IC should helpfully dispel these misconceptions, and assure the players that just because one player seems to be helpful, in a generic sense, and another player doesn't seem as vocal or helpful, doesn't mean the better player is town.

You're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. S*Gaiden will not make long cases, write stunning insights, or sugar coat his words. He is not the man for multi-paragraph eloquence. He is, however, being honest to a fault, and it comes across in his writing. We have four days until deadline, Thesp. Why the panic about vote moving? At the pace of this game, that's another 500 posts or so. We could have wagons form and die in that time.

And what are your thoughts about me

I have no doubt that my self-assessment is biased, but I still disagree that all I've been doing is setup speculation and opportunistic pushes. I will let further analysis of my posting be an exercise best left to the reader.

Nor am I arguing that "helpfulness = town". I

am

arguing, however, that there's no good reason we should allow people to post meaningless crap and lurk in plain sight in a game that's already well past any sane posting measure. If SXTLHGaiden is honest to a fault (as you say), I'd love to see some more real, substantive posting out of them which doesn't need to be long paragraphs, but should actually be game-related. I have seen very, very little of that. I'm also coming off a game I modded where the 2 of the scum were hardcore non-contributors (and the third was middle-weight non-contributor day 1), so I'm more than a little interested in non-contributors and getting them involved or lynched.

As for my thoughts on you, I'm inclined to think your predecessor was town and wrong, as are you. I'm inclined to think you have a strong scumread on Titus, and are shoehorning my posts into that perspective.

(And what do you mean panic about vote moving?)

[Thesp]

if we dont have another player to look for

I do!
And I swear im not talking about bulge.
So everyone answer my quesion, for it is necessary to further explain my point.

What is your opinion about faking paranoia?

Is this the question you're referring to? If it is, I suppose I don't know what you're looking for in the question. I've seen scum fake paranoia (I was fooled by it once pretty hard fo' sho'), and there's certainly legitimate paranoia. If that's not the question you want answered, I don't know what you're looking for - could you restate it?

[Thesp]

Is this the question you're referring to? If it is, I suppose I don't know what you're looking for in the question. I've seen scum fake paranoia (I was fooled by it once pretty hard fo' sho'), and there's certainly legitimate paranoia. If that's not the question you want answered, I don't know what you're looking for - could you restate it?

Ooh, can I do question and answer?

Did tn post before the game started in the QT, or are you flying completely blind on your partner's motivations?

If you want to go after non-contributors, where is

Davesaz

on this radar? The man has done literally nothing. Why does he get a pass? Is it because he's your scumbuddy? Because the man is fucking obvious.

If you wanted to name your scumteam, would it be "Captain Obvious and the Obviousteers" or "Oh my fucking god why did I replace in"?

In part, because of Post 2010 and Post 2013, which felt very genuine to me and I resonated a lot with. In the context of that, looking back at his ISO, I like a lot of what he has to say.

I'm also a bit confused by your attack on my vote switch off of The Bulge. The Bulge had been sitting at a high vote count for a while, and quite a few people voiced strong opposition to his lynch. So I reviewed the people who weren't voting for him at the time (with him sitting at L-2, if I recall correctly), and saw that nearly everyone not voting him was strongly against his lynch, with a couple of others who had chances to weigh in and showed no interest in voting for him. I guess I'm confused as to what you think I should have done - pushed a lynch that wasn't going to happen, or been productive with my vote?

I'd love for SXTLHGaiden to weigh in with their thoughts.

[Thesp]

what thoughts would you like?

Who do you think is scum? (I see you have your vote on Flubbernugget, what are your thoughts on other votegetters? Heck, what do you thin about The Bulge?) Any particular reasons you want to share for these suspicions? What do you think of Team 9's question?

---

Gaiden already provided thoughts in the context of his playstyle, while playing within himself.

I have read this sentence about 10 times, and still have no idea what it is saying. Can you elaborate?

[Thesp]

The Bulge has dropped off the radar since his wagon dematerialized.

UNVOTE: SXTLHGaiden
VOTE: The Bulge

I also approve of the wagon on Varsoon, and would be happy to move my vote there if needed. I'd like to see us get a lynch soonish, as we are approaching the deadline. (And there's no sense in doing a lynch Monday night right up against a deadline when there's enough content by this point to make a reasonably informed lynch.) I'd like to see singleton voters either push hard for their case right now, or be moving somewhere that a lynch can happen.

[Thesp]

Posting from my phone while watching Dragon Tales with my daughter just woke me up.

I'm the cop. Unvote me

now

.

The middle four of my wagon are terrible votes. The Bulge continues to make me happy with my vote.

[Thesp]

GreyICE and Bins, you both did particularly fantastic this game. Thanks, everyone, and good game, town!

[Thesp]

Looks like this game was at least to some small degree affected by this:

Bins has been banned from all mafia games for six months for cheating by playing under two accounts in the same game in multiple instances. The other account was X88B88. Any games that currently have either account in their games must find a replacement. Moderators who have had both accounts in their games will have to make a determination what course of action to take. The listmods are available to provide assistance if needed. Hydras containing Bins will also be banned and will need the other head to play under a different account.

Accounts affected:

Bins
+-
X88B88
Fluff Central
Made of People
OCD
Triptych
Shiva
++
Flirt