Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #575 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:35 pm

Post by Gemini Blind »

I'm a big fan of not lynching the claimed cop D1. Going to laugh when he's telling the truth and you kill him anyway. Willing to bite my tongue if he's not. Don't think it's necessary today, personally.

His choice of kill was questionable, his lack of presence is upsetting. Other than that, I'm not seeing much to suggest he's scum.

I have no idea what bb is supposed to mean.

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Post Post #576 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:38 pm

Post by Iecerint »

The major issue, as spelled out by I think 3 different players in this game, is how he talked about the daykill early game in light of his actually being the one who had the daykill.
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Post Post #577 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:46 pm

Post by Gemini Blind »

I'd rather he come in and explain it, but

In post 10, Salamence20 wrote:Who has my dayvig?


In post 170, Salamence20 wrote:About dayvig speculation: I love the dayvig, it's my favorite role in all of mafia.


He's clearly trying to hide the fact he has the dayvig. If he has the dayvig, it doesn't really matter what he says. I'm not sure how "waiting for guilty to shoot with bravado" expels the notion that he can't pretend he doesn't have it to do exactly what he claimed he was going to do with it. Did I miss something else?

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Post Post #578 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:46 pm

Post by Gemini Blind »

In post 574, Iecerint wrote:Nice scumclaim bb.


Also seriously this better not refer to us.

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Post Post #579 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:54 pm

Post by Gemini Blind »

In post 565, Nachomamma8 wrote:In addition, why did he shoot Elyse? The two people he was pushing hardest for the few moments he was around were: Xayzeck and PV. Do I think he'd give up the chance to take out a top suspect over Elyse who I'm pretty sure he never mentioned at all? No.


This is a good point though.

Admittedly he probably should have said why he killed Elyse when he claimed.

I don't know. I don't want to touch him right now; I think there's too much of a chance he could be town.

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Post Post #580 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:08 pm

Post by Aronis »

So I feel like 9 out of 10 times, Salamence doesn't hold the dayvig for anywhere near this long, but the cop claim sorta explains it. But at the sametime, wouldn't town just lynch the guility? If he claimed and assuming it wasn't MyLo/LyLo, I'd probably go along with it. Plus the shot seemed really poorly timed. Why doesn't he claim dayvig, then shoot? I don't see any reason for the rush there. Then following it up with a cop claim, he's just trying to save himself at this point. I highly doubt he's the cop. So I will gladly hammer the conf scum for Gemini.

VOTE: Salamence

HAMMER!

======[]
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Post Post #581 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:17 pm

Post by Gemini Blind »

I don't know. It just seems too obvious to me. We'll see.

Also I'm not sure about the shot being poorly timed.

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Post Post #582 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:43 pm

Post by Iecerint »

It indeed referred to you.
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Post Post #583 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:51 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

In post 575, Gemini Blind wrote:I'm a big fan of not lynching the claimed cop D1. Going to laugh when he's telling the truth and you kill him anyway. Willing to bite my tongue if he's not. Don't think it's necessary today, personally.


But I don't understand why he, as a cop, wouldn't refrain from using his dayvig like he "wanted," just because people wanted it used day 1. Being a COP with a dayvig changes things quite significantly, does it not?

If he is telling the truth then it tops the list of "bad Salamance D1 plays."
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Post Post #584 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Salamence20 »

In post 583, ToastyToast wrote:
In post 575, Gemini Blind wrote:I'm a big fan of not lynching the claimed cop D1. Going to laugh when he's telling the truth and you kill him anyway. Willing to bite my tongue if he's not. Don't think it's necessary today, personally.


If he is telling the truth then it tops the list of "bad Salamance D1 plays."


Really?
Really???
Realllllllllllyyyyyyyyyy?

Brb going to make a top 10.
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Post Post #585 (ISO) » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Salamence20 »

Oh I was hammered.

Gamethrowing is fun! :)
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Post Post #586 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:59 am

Post by Xayzeck »

In post 510, ToastyToast wrote:Given the slow pace of the game, would it not be typical for some players to try to look at meta? I guess I'm not quite comprehending why you think its scummy. I'm not very familiar with your meta either, but you DO seem to be getting defensive with regards to how she sees your playstyle. Its almost as if you are trying to derail her credibility rather than

Yeah, meta is fine, I get that. Meta is useful early game, sure. I personally think meta is most useful if you actually play with the person, but I don't mind if people rely heavily on meta.

My point was that she DIDN'T use meta, and because of that there's this huge gap in her read on me. She voted me because she thought I would give reactions, but she realised I was hyperdefensive based on playstyle, thus my reactions wouldn't help her sort me. That would be cool, but she admitted to never having meta'd me at all. She's concluding it's playstyle without comparing it to any game that I have played before, and THAT is the big problem I had that she NEVER addressed.

I don't care if she did use a metatell, I don't care if anyone uses a metatell. Hell, I'm pretty sure Nacho did and I don't really mind because I've played with Nacho before and he's probably got a vague idea as to how I play. What I DO mind is concluding it's playstyle WITHOUT using a metatell, which is exactly what she did.

In post 510, ToastyToast wrote:I think its pretty obvious that I'm referring to the people voting me here. From their perspective, I was "scummiest" from one point.

I interpreted it as scummiest thing in the game, not from their POV. Also, the slight victimization. ALSO, Ice vote parked from WP, so that doesn't really count, could have just been waiting for more content or something, so really it was just PV. PV never really explained though, but I recall him saying it was just because you didn't post for a while after your first post, so it could have very well been pressure votes.

Point being, scummiest thing is way over-the-top no matter how you look at it.

In post 510, ToastyToast wrote:These are some of the other interactions that made me ping. Instead of really attacking her/pushing her, you have this..."why do I have to talk to you right now?" attitude. Then, on her end, she seems really angry with the fact that you are pushing-her-but-not-really.

That's not wrong, but in quoted interactions, her questions were really questions I where I was "why am I answering stuff like this". Like, I've made it pretty apparent I scumread her, even if she doesn't understand why, would it make any sense to ask "why do you have a problem with people townreading me" when that's common sense? I scumread you, thus if people townread you I disagree with them. Why she asked that, I have no idea, she never explained this too, but if you'd like to take a guess go ahead.

I've detailed everything I had a problem with, heck, I think I've talked about her not actually using meta to conclude playstyle point SO MANY TIMES, and why I have a problem with it, but even you're still asking it. I don't get it, is it a big hole that only I'm seeing?
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Post Post #587 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:03 am

Post by Xayzeck »

In post 512, Gemini Blind wrote:Xayzeck: maybe scum. Not a fan of his interactions with Elyse. Both of them kind of have a one track mind, but I don't know, Elyse just feels more genuine.

genuine = town?
non genuine = scum?

Not sure I've got much faith in tells like this.

Not sure I've got much faith in that read list either, considering your strongest scumread is based on tone and many of your other reads (6/11) don't have a very firm stance.

A little elaboration on these would be dandy, like I kinda get that one track mind thing, but not so much on genuine.
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Post Post #588 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:08 am

Post by Xayzeck »

Last minute shot makes more sense from scum than town.

Even less sense from town cop too.

T'was a good lynch
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Post Post #589 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:14 am

Post by Gemini Blind »

In post 582, Iecerint wrote:It indeed referred to you.


That's what I thought.

You're an idiot.

If Salamence is my buddy, he's been a sinking ship all game and there's no fucking way I'm hitching my wagon to that.

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Post Post #590 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:17 am

Post by Gemini Blind »

Salamence loves dayvig.

Claimed cop dies night 1 potentially.

Salamence doesn't get to use dayvig if he dies.

Salamence does last minute shot to use the dayvig before he dies.

That's not possible?

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Post Post #591 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:17 am

Post by Gemini Blind »

In post 587, Xayzeck wrote:
genuine = town?
non genuine = scum?

Not sure I've got much faith in tells like this.



Scum lie, town tells the truth.

Thus when town says things, it's more genuine, while scum have to fake reads. I'm trying to sift through the people who are actually hunting and the people who are just pretending to do so.

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Post Post #592 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:19 am

Post by Xayzeck »

Throwing the dayvig before you die and claiming cop is not going to save your lynch, and even if it did, it wouldn't save your NK.

If you get docced, then maybe, but then you wouldn't have to waste dayvig.

So, claiming cop would be more ideal that last minute vig.

Last minute vig also keeps the lynch in your control provided town doesn't scramble votes in time, guarantees a "mislynch" D1, and if you claim cop, gives you a chance of drawing a CC, which I think draws more benefits for scum.

Claimed cop dies N1, potentially, that is true. But last-minute-day-vig + cop claim after flip doesn't exactly help that chance much. Helps scum more.
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Post Post #593 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:22 am

Post by Xayzeck »

In post 591, Gemini Blind wrote:Scum lie, town tells the truth.

Thus when town says things, it's more genuine, while scum have to fake reads. I'm trying to sift through the people who are actually hunting and the people who are just pretending to do so.

Then you're assuming that people always sound genuine when telling the truth, and fail to do so when lying, which isn't at all true.

Do you think I'm pretending to hunt?

Better asked as: Do you agree with the problems I had with Elyse?

Not to be answered with: tone, vibes, genuine, because these aren't actually scumhunting, you can just call tone/vibes town when that is much easier to pull out of your ass to make it look like you're actually reading someone.
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Post Post #594 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:24 am

Post by Xayzeck »

Of course, these tells would be more valid if you could compare how I would play towngames/scumgames and compare tone/genuineness/vibes if that's at all possible, but I don't think that's the case.

Also, if all of this is why you voted me at all, then I'm guessing I'm your strongest scumread maybe? And that's slightly troubling if it's only built on tone/vibes/genuineness imo
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Post Post #595 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:28 am

Post by Iecerint »

In post 589, Gemini Blind wrote:
In post 582, Iecerint wrote:It indeed referred to you.


That's what I thought.

You're an idiot.

If Salamence is my buddy, he's been a sinking ship all game and there's no fucking way I'm hitching my wagon to that.

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Sorry about your hydra buddy, then.
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Post Post #596 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:34 am

Post by Gemini Blind »

In post 595, Iecerint wrote:Sorry about your hydra buddy, then.


You mean my twin brother? Don't even. is pretty much how I feel too, tell me what about it is suspicious and stop flitting around like an annoying insect.

(I'm having a rough day so far, please forgive if I'm overly hostile)
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Post Post #597 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:42 am

Post by Gemini Blind »

In post 593, Xayzeck wrote:Then you're assuming that people always sound genuine when telling the truth, and fail to do so when lying, which isn't at all true.


No, I'm not assuming that every genuine sounding thing come from town, I'm saying that comparatively your side sounded more like hounding than Elyse's side. I think picking one player and tunnelling is a possible indicator of pretending to hunt, but I don't know for certain.

To me, your attacks on Elyse rung a bit hollow. That's all I'm saying. I never said you're 100% confscum for being disingenuous, I'm saying you're probably a better lynch because I think you're more likely to be scum than Salamence.

Nacho is my strongest scum read. Was Nacho even remotely getting lynched today? No. Do I have time to do more than just reactionary posts so I can actually build cases? Unfortunately, no. Who's likely to be scum that was possibly getting lynched? Aronis and you.

Also I'm not voting you.

I should just shut up until we see Salamence's alignment revealed.

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Post Post #598 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:59 am

Post by RedCoyote »

Image

♎ Salamence20,
Mafia Goon
, was lynched on D1.





Final Day 1 Vote Count


  • Salamence20 (6) - (♑ StrangerCoug - ♈ ToastyToast - ♍ Iecerint - ♓ Nachomamma8 - ♌ Dry-fit - ♋ Aronis)

    Aronis (3) - (♏ CrashTextDummie -
    ♌ Dry-fit
    - ♊ Gemini Blind - ♐ Xayzeck)
    Xayzeck (1) - (♎ Salamence20 -
    ♋ Aronis
    -
    ♈ ToastyToast
    )

    Not Voting (1) (♒ PeregrineV -
    ♈ ToastyToast
    -
    ♓ Nachomamma8
    -
    ♍ Iecerint
    )


With eleven alive, it takes six to lynch.

With six votes, that's a successful lynch and an end to Day 1.

Please submit all your night actions, if you have any, before the end of the night phase.
New
Deadline:
(expired on 2014-09-19 12:00:00)
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Post Post #599 (ISO) » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:17 am

Post by RedCoyote »

All that has been and all that will be is here for you to know. Dare you glimpse the future? Dare you even ask...?


Day 2's Fortunate Horoscope (6)One-Shot Hide

Day 2's Unfortunate Horoscope (7)Bad Fortune

These two horoscopes have been sent out in preparation for the the second day phase.
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