Super Dangan Ronpa 2 Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Bookitty]

VOTE: Team 9

I love Korean dramas.

[Bookitty]

An emo ninja with multiple personality disorder?

God help us all.

[Bookitty]

<3 Flames of Disaster! Nice to see you too!

[Bookitty]

In my experience, anyway, hated roles are more likely to be town because of balance issues.

So what's your reasoning for voting Marquis, Okapoka?

[Bookitty]

if you were town you would be voting me right now

Well, THAT wasn't the right answer.

I thought it might have been an RVS vote, but I guess not.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Okapoka

[Bookitty]

The thing is though none of you understand that it was a joke... So whatever

I don't think you get to have it both ways.

If it's a joke, then logically you should be at least surprised by the votes on you. Alternatively, I could see you voting OMGUS on one of the people who voted you.

What doesn't make sense is voting for someone who questioned your vote, if it was a joke. That only makes sense if you were trying to catch scum with what would essentially amount to a mini-gambit.

You're demonstrating a confusion of motive. If your vote had been a joke, you wouldn't have reacted as you did. If it was a gambit, why would you say it was a joke?

[Bookitty]

@Okapoka

: Why are you so sure that the votes on you were from townies?

[Bookitty]

My life is a joke

Hey, at least you're not Mafia.

[Bookitty]

You're bad at math, aren't you, Oka?

3/5 isn't 25 percent.

[Bookitty]

What do you think I should be commenting on, Bins?

I've already said what I think of his so-called joke vote.

@Not_Mafia: If I miscounted, fair enough. It's still 50 percent, not 25. And that's characteristic of my problem with Oka; the story keeps changing every time he tells it.

[Bookitty]

Why is that statement scummy, boo?

Because it didn't address my question.

If Oka knew that Hated roles were mostly town, then his vote could have been a joke, as he's now saying. In that case, I'm not going to vote him seriously for an RVS joke.

If Oka hadn't played enough with Hated roles to know that, then it could be an honest newbie mistake. In that case, I'm not going to vote him for not knowing about Hated roles.

However, if the response is then to vote me because I didn't vote him for auto-voting a Hated role, that argues that he was not making a joke and he was seriously voting a Hated role for ???? reasons. Suggesting that no townie would fail to vote him for that while ignoring others who didn't vote him for that indicated to me that he didn't want to answer the question.

Later, he decides to say it's all a joke. But nothing in his behaviour earlier suggests that.

I don't see how you think he's townie. I don't agree. The issue with percentages just bears out the idea that he's making up motivations and opinions on the fly as they become handy, rather than having them from the start.

[Bookitty]

"Joke vote for reaction testing" doesn't quite sounds like a confusion of motive

Reaction testing? That's something you're bringing to the party. Oka hasn't said anything like that.

Joke vote =/= Reaction testing.

[Bookitty]

so you think this is serious?

Why did you believe that all townies should vote you for it if you didn't think it would be taken seriously?

[Bookitty]

and if you can't see how fluidly and weakly oka's stances changed based on what was easiest to do at the time (and based on Public Approval Ratings™)

I endorse this opinion.

[Bookitty]

Shouldn't all townies be voting you according to you?

After all, you voted for me for not voting for you.

What was your case on me, again?

[Bookitty]

In other news, Min still hasn't posted in this game.

@Seohyun: I pronounce it BOO-kittie personally. Shortens to Boo or Bookie mostly, but I'm not too picky.

[Bookitty]

During the first Dangan Ronpa game, Flames of Disaster and I went at each other tooth and nail and fought it out throughout the initial stages of the game. To be fair, it was just as much my fault as his, but we were both town.

That's my only experience in playing with him, so I'm not sure how helpful it is. I do think he was a lot more active and aggressive in that game, though.

[Bookitty]

Oh to be clear.

If I don't sign or sign as cirno, it's me.
If I sign as rumia, it's pie.
If I sign as mystia, it's nati.
If I sign as wriggle, it's nacho
If I sign as daiyousei, it's fery.

Just to let you know.

[Bookitty]

I'm not voting Okapoka for being bad at math nor yet for "lying" about it. I was voting him well before he made the weird math error. I do think that his story has changed several times and that he seems pretty unclear even on what he thinks or what his actual motivations really were.

I've said this before, but I'll repeat for clarity:

If it's a joke, then why vote someone for asking a question regarding it?

If it's a gambit, then why question why all the votes when it's clearly intended to elicit them?

If it's a joke that became a gambit, then why not make the case that would logically follow?

It's not the math mistake that makes the difference. It's the whole picture of trying to pass it off as a joke, then grabbing on to your "reaction test" comment and trying to play it off as both. The math mistake is more telling because:

1) he voted me for not voting him immediately (while still ignoring my question and every question I've asked him since)
2) he then complained about all the votes on him, despite his expressed opinion that voting for him was a townie move
3) he came up with what looks like a random selection of proposed scum on his wagon that doesn't bear any relation to the actual evidence in the thread

I don't believe I ever said he lied about the math. I said he can't keep his stories straight. That means he legitimately fucked up, not that he decided to lie.

[Bookitty]

Actually, I do have another question.

@Okapoka:

Between Team 9 and Seohyun, who do you think more likely to be scum?

[Bookitty]

Actually, I do have another question.

@Okapoka:

Between Team 9 and Seohyun, who do you think more likely to be scum?

What do you hope to gain from this question?

An understanding of the rationale used to derive his list of scum on his wagon, if one exists.

[Bookitty]

Here:

Why did you only vote me when I voted you?

Why did you immediately attack me when I said it would be town to attack me?



One is a whiteknight maybe and the other one is a drunk player

I voted you because I asked you a question to determine whether or not you were still in RVS mode when you voted Marquis or whether you didn't really understand the Hated role. You failed to respond in any way to my question. Your vote is really irrelevant to my vote on you. It's your failure to answer the question that made me think you were trying for low-hanging fruit by attacking Marquis and attacking anyone who questioned your attack.

But my vote on you can't possibly be the motivation for your vote on me; your vote came first.

[Bookitty]

@Okapoka:

Between Team 9 and Seohyun, who do you think more likely to be scum?

[Bookitty]

@Team 9:

No, the math error just struck me as amusing at the time, so I commented on it. I hadn't noticed the last vote on him since the vote count, though, so the joke was apparently on me :p

Making percentage errors or math errors isn't scummy; it's the thought process that unfolded later that really bothered me. My read on it was this:

My wagon is invalid and there is scum on it! like, one fourth of it is scum!

Who are the scums?

Um... let me just throw out some names here...

And he happened to throw out names that I have a strong town read on.

It seemed just a bit convenient. Especially since he now says he has no strong scumreads.

[Bookitty]

Ironically, now that Okapoka has FINALLY started answering my questions, I have a less confident scumread on him.

Meh.

[Bookitty]

@Team 9:

Read his ISO and tell me that this is scum trying to fly under the radar or fit in with the crowd.

[Bookitty]

@Team 9:

Read his ISO and tell me that this is scum trying to fly under the radar or fit in with the crowd.

Is this about Oka?
Which part of voting Hated claim while acknowledging what hated means is scum trying to fly under the radar or fit in with the crowd?

"Oka is scum for trying to fly under the radar or fit in with the crowd" argument is flawed regardless of Oka's alignment (for argument's sake. I still think he's town).

-C

This is related to your question regarding why I have a strong townread on Seohyun. The last question you asked me. It has nothing to do with Okapoka.

[Bookitty]

@FOD: If I had to move my vote right now, it would be to NintendoFan for his drop-in vote check visits.

@Team 9: I will try to remember to quote the posts I'm replying to, but it will be a bit confusing to address five specific members of a hydra separately. That burden should really be on you guys, I think, rather than on other people to keep track of who posts what This is a large game, but it shouldn't be THAT large.

[Bookitty]

Also, as I said, we don't play "let's pretend to be others".
We sign our posts.
Even if we forget to time to time it's really obvious when different people post.

I don't really know any of you, so you'll understand when I say it's not that obvious to me.

In any case, I treat hydras as one player to save my own sanity. I will make a real effort to quote anything I'm answering, though, which should help a lot.

[Bookitty]

Boo has virtually no content on anyone else, then says he looks a bit better but it doesn't look like his stance changed at all, and he doesn't try to look for scum elsewhere either.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Okapoka's stance has changed somewhat in that he's now answering my questions. And why does it matter whether he's looking for scum elsewhere or at all, if you think he's town anyway?

[Bookitty]

I was responding to questions being put to me by Team 9, actually. So yes, I was explaining my previous read, which has softened but not completely gone away.

I posted the comment in question regarding Okapoka fairly late last night and I did point out to Flames of Disaster my second strongest scumread after my comment about Oka, so your assessment doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. I owe FoD a close and careful read on his Flame-War partner, and I expect I'll get to that sometime today assuming I have the time.

And... I'm not a he. I'm kind of amused that you would think someone with a Hello Kitty avatar and a name like BooKitty would be male, though

[Bookitty]

My read on NintendoFan doesn't actually have to do with lack of content, though that certainly doesn't help.

It's the repeated checking in and providing non-substantive posts while being sure to comment that he doesn't have any votes yet, as though that's a good enough reason not to contribute.

Min hasn't posted once in this game, but I'm not shouting for her head on a silver platter. A LOT of people haven't been providing substantive content or have provided very little in that regard. NintendoFan stands out because it doesn't appear to me that he's going to contribute anything unless he gets some votes on him. That's not an attitude I expect from town.

[Bookitty]

I'm sorry, Caledfwitch.

No one is posting. I think I broke the game

[Bookitty]

I don't know, but everyone just ran away

[Bookitty]

Actually, I do have another question.

@Okapoka:

Between Team 9 and Seohyun, who do you think more likely to be scum?

What do you hope to gain from this question?

An understanding of the rationale used to derive his list of scum on his wagon, if one exists.

You never made any response to this. What did you hope to gain from YOUR question?

[Bookitty]

or I got my times mixed up, regardless it's still weird that only one person bothered to point out me not doing anything

If you start reading at page 10, you're bound to miss a few things.

Your absence was noted well before the mod prodded you.

[Bookitty]

What caused you to come to that conclusion?

What is this referring to, please?

[Bookitty]

Thanks for replacing so quickly

[Bookitty]

Reposting because I didn't get an answer.

@Flames682:

Actually, I do have another question.

@Okapoka:

Between Team 9 and Seohyun, who do you think more likely to be scum?

What do you hope to gain from this question?

An understanding of the rationale used to derive his list of scum on his wagon, if one exists.

You never made any response to this. What did you hope to gain from YOUR question?

[Bookitty]

Min, did you even read what i posted?

[Bookitty]

also Bookitty, can I get a list of your current scumreads?

Yep.

Okapoka is still there. I'm not as confident now, but the fact that he's contributing less now that some of the pressure is off seems suspicious to me too. I'd also like an answer to your previous question to Oka about why both Flames are town.

NintendoFan is suspicious for reasons mentioned earlier. I'm not sure what he means about Min being scum because she hadn't posted, but I don't think I'd get a coherent answer even if I asked.

I'm not happy with Min's repeated reading fail. I don't understand how it's relevant even if NO ONE had noticed she wasn't here. The fact that this was what she entered the game talking about and that she's not participating in any relevant discussion is pinging my scumdar pretty hard. She also seemed to miss the entire point of my question to Flames682.

I haven't picked a horse in the Flames wars yet. I think it's a bit odd that Flames of Disaster only reverted to what I think of as his signature style after being told he wasn't acting like his town self. I'm not at all confident that I can read him as town or scum anyway, but I think the argument between Flames and Flames seemed somehow forced. (I think Slandaar commented this already in a "bussing" comment.)

Saki might be scum. He hasn't posted enough for me to have a solid read, but that was true in the previous Dangan Ronpa game too. In that one he was town.

When I try to think of what Not_Mafia has contributed without doing an ISO, I have a hard time. I remember vaguely that he was questioning Okapoka about his vote on me, but town or scum could do that. I only have meta for NM based on games I've read, not games I've played (and I consider the latter a MUCH more reliable source) so I'm going to say lean-scum on NM.

And... I think Vezokpiraka might be scum. He jumped right on NintendoFan after (and perhaps because) I made my comments that I would be voting him if I weren't voting Okapoka. Now he's pushing that wagon pretty hard while telling Flames of Disaster that Flames682 is town:

@FoD: kindly shut the fuck up and go make reads on another players. Your tunneling is bad and on the wrong person.

That's pretty definite in saying Flames682 is town, something I'm not sure of and something that I don't think VP could know for sure either.

Oh, and as a bonus, I think Slandaar is probably town. He was awfully quick to declare you (Team 9) as conftown based on a mod response. While I don't really agree with his logic and my reasoning for thinking you're town is different, I don't see a scum motivation for that. It narrows down options, something scum wouldn't want to do in the early part of the game imo.

[Bookitty]

All right, VezokPiraka: Why is Flames of Disaster tunneling "on the wrong person," then? What did you mean by that, if you're not saying Flames682 is town?

[Bookitty]

@Flames682:

How much of Super Dangan Ronpa 1 did you read?

[Bookitty]

Not effectively. :p Think about it.

[Bookitty]

May I tell you AFTER he responds?

[Bookitty]

Regardless of Flames682's alignment, I did a little meta research of my own (the meta that dare not say its name, actually) and this is not like FoD's scum game from my ISO of the limited available evidence.

[Bookitty]

Min, did you even read what i posted?

If you're talking about the quotes with you asking for an answer to your question, yes. Elsewise, no. If you are talking about those quotes, I feel like "I want to get an idea of how the wagon works" or w/e is a valid response. Unless I'm missing something because I skipped ten pages.

Read it carefully, please. I think you are misattributing my response to the person I was asking for a response. I hadn't GOTTEN a response to my question yet, which followed the response *I* gave which I think you are misattributing to the other person.

@Notscience: No wagon on me yet, though I think I might have two votes. Make your case. I look forward to hearing what you come up with.

[Bookitty]

Your face is a case.

[Bookitty]

Reasons I think SB is probably town:

He's voting me and showing his work in terms of reasoning. From my point of view, his reasoning is obviously wrong; however, I think he's expressing opinions he actually has and making an effort to explain them.

Also, I don't feel like I am a really easy target. Certainly there are much easier wagons to join or to push. He's not trying to blend in with the crowd and he's showing some signs of confbias, something that I think is hard to fake and something that I definitely associate more with town.

He hasn't posted much, but in contrast to the people I listed as likely scum, he's definitely shown more willingness to stick his neck out and argue his cases.

[Bookitty]

@Slandaar:

Do you think Okapoka is town? If so, what is your reasoning, please?

[Bookitty]

@Min: What do you think about what's going on in the rest of the game?

Do you have any scumreads, townreads, or reads in general?

[Bookitty]

@NintendoFan:

What, in your view, makes someone suspicious?

If Min had never posted and had instead been replaced, would the replacement still be suspicious because Min hadn't ever posted?

What do you feel you need to acquire a better read on other players? I am asking whether you need to read the game more fully or whether you need more content from other players?

[Bookitty]

Current list of reads:

1. Not_Mafia

- I'm not ready to vote Not_Mafia, but I feel like he's weighing in just enough to stay under the radar. I don't have enough experience with him to determine whether that's scummy on his part or playstyle, but either way it's not inspiring me to have warm and fuzzy feelings about him.

2. Bins now notscience

– Bins was kind of middle-of-the-road for me. At least notscience is making some accusations and making something happen, even if I don't agree with what he says.

3. Flames682

AND

5. Flames of Disaster

– Slandaar said this first, and I mildly agreed with him; that agreement has grown as time as passed. I have the feeling that the fight between these two is forced. This was only a mild feeling at first, but the persistent continuation of the fight without the real anger I felt from FoD in the first SDR game has made me think two things. One: FoD only started this fight after the differences from his town meta were pointed out. Two: The fight seems like it's being played out with wooden swords, not sharp ones. I could be wrong, but it feels faked or manufactured to me somehow.

4. yoloswag123

– Needs more content. I'm content with filing him in town for now though based on the content of his limited posting.

6. Slandaar

- I think this guy is town. I'm not crazy about his push on NintendoFan right now, but I don't think it's coming from a scum motivation.

7. Team 9 (GuyInFreezer + pieguyn + Natirasha)

– Not afraid to make waves or definite statements. Obvtown. Maybe the only hydra I've ever felt confident about my read.

9. Saki

– Needs more content. Could be town or scum. In SDR1, we got to end-game with almost nothing to go on; in that game he was town.

10. vezokpiraka

– I was probably wrong about Vezok; his cranky and pissed-off attitude seems like a town reaction.

11. OkaPoka

– I'm sticking to my scumread on Oka even though the wagon has mostly dissipated. I wavered for a little, but his almost complete disappearance after the wagon and the discussion died down looks like scum trying to skate under the radar.

12. NintendoFan

– NF's early entry into the game was just awful to me. His weird waffle on Min, though, seems like a newbie issue and not a true scumtell. I'd like an explanation for why someone who doesn't post is scum, but I already asked that question and haven't gotten a response.

13. SB

– Lean town. I'd put him up over Yoloswag but not up with my firm townreads. I don't feel like scum would take me on so directly, not even newbscum.

14. Min

– Here's a tough one. She's come into the game announcing she hasn't read the first ten pages (would scum admit to that?) and criticises people for playing the newbie card (though I don't think anyone truly has; others have done it on their behalf). She doesn't have any suspicions that I recall except for people pushing too hard; is that actually a scumtell?

15. Seohyun

– Strong town. Limited posting but what's there looks town to me in timing and content. NF looks like the easy lynch and he's not pushing on him, something I think scum would do even if NF is scum due to the liability NF might represent for them.

16. Marquis

– I don't know if the hated townie thing is a gambit or what. I don't think it matters; the willingness to make himself a target in that way and the persistence with Oka makes me feel strongly that Marquis is town. Reduced activity recently isn't a scumtell as with Oka because there's no wagon on Marquis and thus no advantage to him in flying under the radar.

Questions, comments, flames and corrections are welcome.

[Bookitty]

true true but I think nintendo fan as scum would just rather not mention min at all.

I don't understand your reasoning. Can you explain a bit more?

[Bookitty]

@Min:

Have you read the first ten pages of this game yet?

Why do you think pushing too hard on someone is a scumtell?

Did you understand what yoloswag123 was saying despite his lack of three commas and one capital letter in his very brief post?

[Bookitty]

I go back and forth on NintendoFan. I would like to give him a chance to provide actual relevant content that doesn't involve one read or nonread on someone who hadn't even posted yet.

The newbie defence is a thing because it is really easy to lynch someone for making newbie mistakes due to a lack of understanding of the game. One reason I'm not really jumping on board with these and that my vote is still on Oka is because I think that scum would be quick to bus NintendoFan at this point. Right now, he has just Vezok (probtown), Flames682 and Slandaar (probtown) on him. If NintendoFan were scum, I'd expect his scumteam to be piling on to gain valuable towncred and to get rid of a liability. It's win-win for them.

The thing that makes me hesitate, though, is that NF isn't the only newbie or relatively inexperienced player in this game. Just because I see that clearly doesn't mean the rest of his scumteam would see it. There might also be an issue with timing; a bunch of votes going up at the same time would definitely ping some scumdars.

There's some merit to the idea that lynching NintendoFan now would benefit town regardless of his alignment because he's not going to be readable later on either. His lack of posting supports this.

I don't know. I'm going to think about it some more.

[Bookitty]

So NintendoFan is town, Oka?

[Bookitty]

I said there was merit to the argument. There is. Taking someone unreadable to LYLO is a freaking nightmare that can guarantee a loss for town.

You chose to respond to this by saying that lynching town is always bad for town. I don't happen to agree with this, but it's moot anyway because townies by definition are an uninformed majority who might lynch town in any case. Since WE don't know for sure and can't derive much from what NF is putting forth, it might be worthwhile to eliminate the uncertainty now and go on with that knowledge.

Your response seems a little trite at best and seems narrowly to focus on the idea that NF is town. Do you think he is?

[Bookitty]

You keep saying that as if you know that NintendoFan is town. If he's scum, I'm justifying voting for someone who is scum, right. So why do you keep insisting that NF is town and I'm justifying lynching town?

[Bookitty]

Do you understand the difference between saying an argument has merit and saying that it's your own confirmed opinion?

If I thought it was definitely a good lynch, I would be voting him. I don't know his alignment and I obviously think YOU are the best lynch because I'm voting YOU.

Who do you think is scum, Okapoka? Or is your scumlist still confined to one person who's voting you?

[Bookitty]

No, actually it isn't.

You can't read NintendoFan because of "newbie bias." You're unwilling to give any other reads on other players. Even if you do think I'm the scummiest, you're keeping all your options open on all other players.

Let's say I'm lynched and I flip town. Who do you go after next? Who would be next scummiest on your list?

[Bookitty]

So by my own definition, I am kinda scum.

Do you seriously think scum, even newbscum, would post that?

I mean, I've been wrong before, but that seems REALLY unlikely to me.

@Not_Mafia:

What are your scumreads, please?

[Bookitty]

@Min:

Why is asking everyone to vote a scumtell?

What do you think makes someone scummy?

[Bookitty]

Also I feel like lynching one of dem prod dodgers just for a sake of them.

I'd be up for lynching Saki for making four non-content posts, two of which were prod dodges, while remaining active on non-Mafia areas of the site. Saki has provided exactly zero content in this game.

[Bookitty]

Yeah, let's just do this. I don't want to vote NintendoFan and there's no consensus for Okapoka-scum.

VOTE: Saki

[Bookitty]

you people are either not active or too scared to say anything about a self vote

Or, you know, at lunch?

With your level of contribution thus far, I don't think you get to say that others are "not active." Your self-vote and quick retraction doesn't make up for you ignoring this game. You've been aware of the game enough to prod dodge, so it's not like you were especially busy nor that you forgot the game. That's even more clear since you responded immediately to a vote on you.

Pretty happy with my vote, actually.

[Bookitty]

I don't need to votepark you for the rest of the game. It's not as if you're really playing it anyway; apparently you're just setting a two-day prod timer and checking in just enough not to be replaced.

You're right that my stupidity lost the first SDR game. Your complete lack of anything helpful in that game was a major contributing factor to the loss, however.

I'm willing to own up to my mistakes and try not to make them again. Apparently, you aren't.

[Bookitty]

I'm pretty damn sure you're going to votepark me because 'omg anyone that's hostile to me is scum'

Are you even reading this game? Did you even read the original SDR? Because that's NOT what happened.

Whatever, dude. You can't even get my gender right after two games, I don't know why I expect you to read anything else either.

[Bookitty]

Yes. I saw that you didn't post any content for the first eight days of this deadline period. You posted prod dodges twice in a row. I thought that was bad and that you were bad for doing it. So I voted you.

And ta-da, suddenly content from you! Not GOOD content, but still. WOW, my fiendish plan worked!

If you're determined to be completely unhelpful, damn right my vote is staying. If you do something to help town, though? That vote doesn't have to be parked on you for "the rest of the game."

[Bookitty]

You didn't tell me ANYTHING. You posted prod dodge.

Was that supposed to be code for "OMG Bookitty is wrong!" Because I didn't read it that way.

Why are you so hysterical about one vote anyway? What is your deal?

[Bookitty]

And by the way, just for clarity, in the first game I was soothed and lulled into the certainty that Skullduggery was town. He played me like a fiddle and I was completely fooled by him. As a result, I hard-defended him through most of the game and ended up losing to him in the end. He was an SK.

I didn't hate people for telling me I was wrong and I didn't get mad because people were hostile; my flaw was in complete confirmation bias that Skullduggery was town and on my side. So yeah, it was my stupidity that lost that game, but I have no clue what Saki is talking about with "So and so voted me, they must be scum." I believe my play this game wouldn't bear that out either.

He is right that we have less than five days to deadline, though.

[Bookitty]

Saki is a waste of a day 1 lynch, little to no info from the flip and I don't have any reason to put him as anything but null yet.

What would you derive from NintendoFan's flip as scum or town?

[Bookitty]

Vote NF or bookitty at least so we can start a wagon up.

You don't consider four votes a good start for a wagon?

What happened to your earlier soft-defense of NintendoFan because he was a newbie? "Lynching town never helps town" and all that? Are you scumreading NF now?

[Bookitty]

Going to agree with Oka here, lynching someone because their newbie despite being town or scum doesn't help at all. Oka is implying that NF is scum, he is saying that you said that we should lynch someone because they're unreadable, and Oka makes that clear. However, you continue to focus on asking if he's implying that NF is town, which he isn't at all. Scumreading Bookitty.

Oka was misrepresenting (either unintentionally or on purpose) my position. He was NOT implying that NF was scum:

I dont have a read on Nintendo due to newb bias.

I have not voted for NF; in fact, the post to which Oka was responding pointed out that I didn't want to vote for NF. I STILL stand by my point that there is some merit to the idea of lynching unreadable players prior to LYLO. I did NOT say we should do it nor did I vote for NF.

Saying that there is some merit to the idea of a policy lynch is not the same as pushing or participating in one. Neither Oka's nor my postings support your interpretation, as a careful reread will clearly show.

[Bookitty]

Here's where the vote count stands now by my figuring (Please check, I've been known to make mistakes):

(0) Not_Mafia:
(0) notscience:
(2) Flames682: Flames of Disaster, yoloswag123
(0) yoloswag123:
(0) Flames of Disaster:
(0) Slandaar:
(0) Team 9:
(1) Bookitty: OkaPoka
(4) Saki: notscience, Bookitty, Team 9, Flames682
(1) vezokpiraka: Min
(3) OkaPoka: Marquis, Seohyun, NintendoFan
(4) NintendoFan: vezokpiraka, Slandaar, Not_Mafia, SB
(0) SB:
(0) Min:
(0) Seohyun:
(0) Marquis:

About four days to deadline now.

[Bookitty]

If notscience is legit pushing me he's scum.

This is pretty solid evidence that Saki at least had not been reading the thread prior to this post. If he had, he would know that notscience actually started the wagon on him.

Also, I think most players who have been reading the thread have pretty strong feelings on one side or another about both Okapoka and NintendoFan at this point. I don't believe, if Saki had actually read the thread as he claims, that he would need to do this:

I'm probably going to decide who to vote for out of nf/op later tonight

[Bookitty]

I didn't respond to your vote on me; my 2 day prod timer was just up.

There is a 72-hour prod rule in effect in this game. Saki said he checked in every 48 hours when his prod alarm went off. A quick scan of the game did seem to bear this out. But why would town deliberately set an alarm to ensure the minimum possible contribution while avoiding receiving a prod? Isn't that a strategy specifically designed to allow scum to fly under the radar?

It's not accidental lurking. By his own postings, it's very deliberate lurking. Why would town do this, especially if they were reading the game anyway?

[Bookitty]

He hardcore lurked in SDR1. Is it bad? Yes. But why do you find this alignment indicative for him?

Saki replaced in to Dangan Ronpa 1. During the early stages of that game, he engaged with a number of people, commented on things that were happening in the game, admitted that he didn't follow some of the things going on and generally acted like someone who wanted to help town despite limited posting.

Contrast that with this game, in which Saki only started producing content under the threat of votes. In SDR1, there wasn't a regular pattern of no-content posting just enough to avoid mod-prods.

What do you specifically believe you would derive from an NF or Oka flip as scum or town? If NF is lynched and flips scum, who would you think his buddies would be? How about if he flips town? Who looks more suspicious then?

[Bookitty]

I don't have a full lynch wagon or flips on the counterwagons to say anything beyond generalities like "the first 2 votes on a scum wagon tend to be town", "If oka is scum and NF and Saki are town, whoever drove up those wagons looks bad".

Okay... so how would an Oka or NF lynch be more informative than a Saki lynch given what you just said? They are the same, aren't they?

[Bookitty]

@Not_Mafia:

You didn't mention interactions in your reasons; you mentioned placement on the wagon and the presence of people on wagons that flipped town. Neither of those have anything to do with Saki's activity or lack thereof. So I don't see how you can say, for you, that the other two wagons would be more informative. The specific information you listed would apply equally to all three.

[Bookitty]

Fair enough on the interactions.

The interesting thing is, though, that notscience was first on that wagon. I was second. Team 9 was third. Slandaar was fifth. All of these are townreads of varying degrees for me.

From my perspective, there's not a whole lot of scum hopping on going on. Do you see it differently?

[Bookitty]

I don't believe that Saki has been reading the game. He owned up to that in SDR1 but not here.

Lurking by itself is just a minor scumtell for me. Lurking while posting regularly every two days to avoid a prod is a little different, though. It argues that not being noticed is the priority, not the game. Also, what is the logic behind setting an alarm to avoid prods while reading the game anyway? Why would you need the alarm if you were actually reading the game and keeping up with it? You could just post every time you got caught up.

The hyper-reactive shrillness and the sheer amount of posting after being voted is also weird. I don't know if that's a scumtell or not, though. My meta with Saki is limited.

[Bookitty]

in which Saki only started producing content under the threat of votes

misrep central

All right. That's my opinion, not absolute fact.

Saki only started producing content after he began receiving votes.

That's a fact.

[Bookitty]

That's not how it happened.

I voted you.
You immediately came on and voted yourself like two minutes after I left for lunch.
You then unvoted and produced your first content of the game by calling the town inactive and/or scaredycats.
I came back from lunch.

So you produced content immediately after my vote. I would love to take credit for "confronting you" but I wasn't even at a computer at the time.

You realise anyone can go back and read what happened, right? You can't just rewrite history on this forum.

[Bookitty]

Ok fine I produced a self-vote in order to bait someone into a 1v1 and it happened to be you

I was already voting you.

And I suspect your English teacher wasn't playing Mafia, a game in which hidden motivations play a huge role. :p

[Bookitty]

I don't think it's the grammar or English that's wrong, exactly. From my perspective (which may not at all be the same as Slandaar's, so I'm not speaking for him) the problem was this.

Flames682: I think that Bookitty is scummity scummy scum.

Slandaar: People shouldn't be calling Bookitty scum!

Saki: How can you accuse me of calling Bookitty scum?

It doesn't follow logically. If I say that people shouldn't post in purple fonts, it doesn't make sense for someone who has never posted in a purple font to make a response "I was posting in black fonts! Reading comprehension please!"

Makes more sense now? It IS an issue of reading comprehension, but I don't see it as being Slandaar's issue.

[Bookitty]

@MOD

: Could we have a prod on NintendoFan, please?

[Bookitty]

At the point at which I voted Saki, I was legitimately fed up with the prod dodges and generally low activity in this game. I looked at the activity overview and did some ISOs just to check what kind of content was provided by players who had posted less than the mod at that point (unless the mod is exceptionally active, posting less than the mod is usually a cutoff point for me in thinking someone is lurking). Saki had posted exactly four times at that point. Two of those posts were prod dodges.

My vote on Okapoka was useless; the wagon was generally dissipating. I didn't want to vote NintendoFan for reasons I've already explained and can quote on request. I don't remember knowing that there was already a vote on Saki, but I know for sure that I knew notscience had called him scum without giving reasons at the time. I thought Saki had a better-than-average chance of being scum given the absolute skating under the radar that he was managing.

After the vote, however, Saki started posting content immediately and actually went into an amazing flurry of activity. He has alternately claimed:

I didn't respond to your vote on me; my 2 day prod timer was just up.

Player Saki started producing content after direct confrontation/engagement with player Bookitty.

Ok fine I produced a self-vote in order to bait someone into a 1v1 and it happened to be you

This is also interesting when juxtaposed:

Are you offering up a reason for why I acted this way that is not what my actual reasons were?

I was just a convenient place for people to stick their vote on to look like they're scumhunting.

tl;dr: I voted Saki for being the worst lurking offender and kept it there because I feel that the reasons given for his actions have been inconsistent since that time.

[Bookitty]

Oh no, now we're in the same boat with the rest of the town!

And my Post 695 was in direct answer to Yoloswag's Post 691, so trying to paint it as simple repetition is a misrepresentation. If he hadn't asked, I wouldn't have replied.

[Bookitty]

@Vezokpiraka: I just can't see NintendoFanscum posting that by his own definition, he is kinda scum. Doesn't that seem like something a newb scum would NEVER say?

To me, Saki's hysterical overreaction seems way more scummy.

We have to reach a consensus in three short days, so can you give me a brief version of why you think NF has to be scum?

I'm still willing to vote Okapoka as well.

@Min: I don't think Vezok is scum and I know that your vote is being wasted there. Can you move your vote to one of the larger wagons, please, to help us get a lynch before the deadline? We need nine people on one wagon or we'll no-lynch, which would be really bad for town.

[Bookitty]

Sorry for double post, but I forgot something:

@Not_Mafia:

How much experience do you have playing with Saki? I've only played with him as town before. Do you have a link to or the name of a completed scum game from him?

Have you seen this kind of meltdown rage-posting before from Saki as town or scum? I'd appreciate a link to that as well, if you have one.

[Bookitty]

You are hard-headed when it comes to your reads.
I'm not going to repeat myself on what I've already said of nintendofan.

I'll add that after a wagon appeared on him, he disappeared.

I've seen scum do this too many times and get away with it.

I don't think I'm any more stubborn than most people in my reads; they shift as behaviours shift, pretty much like anyone else's. I think you've been pretty stubborn on your NF read despite not making a very good case for it. I read your ISO, and in my view your case has been limited to "He said Min was scum for not posting while having a null read on her." Yeah, that looks like crap, as did his "I'm checking in to see if I have votes on me. No? Bye!" stuff early on. I still don't think that newbscum would say they were scum as he did. I could be wrong, that's happened before. But it's not me you need to convince that NF is scum; I'm just one vote. It's the rest of town, and you ought to put your case out there if you actually want NF lynched.

Your second point is pretty strong (the bolded part above), but it depends on lurking, something that a LOT of people are doing. It's possible NF will have to be replaced. I haven't checked to see if he's posting elsewhere on the site.

I don't know for sure that Saki is scum. I think reading his ISO would provide plenty of evidence for anti-town behaviour. Like I said before, I make a big difference between lurking that seems sort of casual (the kind most people are doing by not posting) and lurking that was obviously planned in advance (the two-day timer thing). They're different. I've never seen anyone set a two-day prod dodge timer before. I honestly don't know what to make of it, but I'm sure it's not a pro-town tactic.

I said before that I don't think I'm more stubborn than average. What I probably AM, though, is more vocal than average in defending my corner and making sure my reads, right or wrong, are out there. I wish that everyone was doing that.

[Bookitty]

It's possible NF will have to be replaced. I haven't checked to see if he's posting elsewhere on the site.

NF's only posts have been in this game as far as I can tell.

[Bookitty]

Fire Emblem Awakening was somewhat similar, I guess. Saki was the SK in that one. The link goes to where the meltdown begins.

It's not exactly the same, but the tone is similar.

I'd welcome other examples from people who have played with Saki as either scum or town. I simply don't have time to look at all the games he's posted in (some of which he didn't play in) and find the ones where he was under pressure and read through all the posts in those games. Any help would be very much appreciated.

[Bookitty]

So, uh. I forgot I was in a game here. I said that I was scum by my own definition and ironically enough I met two of the definitions I said and I was sure that

someone

was going to call me out.

Was that so hard to not understand/assume?

Have you read over the game since your last post, NintendoFan?

[Bookitty]

@NintendoFan: Why do you think most people are voting you?

[Bookitty]

Okay, two questions:

Who is voting you for calling yourself scum?

And what in the content you provided do you feel was the primary motivating factor for votes on you?

[Bookitty]

@Team 9:

@NintendoFan: What, in your view, makes someone suspicious?

Being quiet, trying to de-rail the conversation, quicklynching, and just not really helping at all.

So by my own definition, I am kinda scum.

VOTE: OkaPoka

[Bookitty]

I still don't get this case on saki.

General case is that he havent been doing jack and started yelling and bite back once he got started wagonning.

^

I agree

Ain't my case though.

-C (lol do I even need to sign)

I don't really get what you mean by the bolded part. Are you saying you don't agree with that case, or that you have another set of reasons for voting Saki?

[Bookitty]

I don't. My reason have been how he overreacted to the wagons, not the overreaction itself, if you know what I mean.

Yes, I think so. I'm not sure that Saki was trying to scare me; even with his limited experience playing with me, he ought to know that I'm not scared to admit to mistakes and I don't have a lot of ego about my awesome Mafia prowess. The initial vote was just for lurking and probably would have gone away if not for the things that Saki said and the way he reacted after that. But it's the shrillness, the attacks on people, the way his reasons for his actions changed when he was pushed on them and the general tone of his postings that made me think he was surely scum.

@EVERYONE:

If you support the NintendoFan wagon, put your vote there. For Okapoka, the same. Saki has the most votes right now, so if you support that wagon, put your vote down. A no-lynch will leave us with only a night-kill from which to derive information. Please support a lynch with a chance of getting through.

[Bookitty]

To be really clear:

It's not that Saki was inactive until he had a couple of votes on him that causes me concern. In Dangan Ronpa 1, Saki freaked out a bit as town when he got a vote for inactivity. It's the tone of the aggressive overresponse (similar to that in the Fire Emblem game I linked) and the attempt to discredit (also similar to Fire Emblem) that is strikingly different from town-Saki in SDR1.

Also, Saki has called me town, Slandaar prob-town, notscience prob-town. I can't put my finger on it, but that seems really off to me somehow. If Saki thought I was town, why would he want to discredit me? (I can find the quote where he admits to that if people don't remember it.) Why are all three of us probably town to Saki? That just doesn't ring true. It's a weak argument, but it's part of my thought process.

[Bookitty]

People. Come and vote someone. I don't want a no lynch.

This. Please.

And

@Vezok:

Why are you focusing your attention on the Saki wagon specifically on Slandaar? I think I've pushed it just as hard. What specific lies has Slandaar told?

[Bookitty]

At this point, my moving my vote would make it even more unlikely that we would get a lynch.

I'll keep watching for as long as I can, but I don't really know what I could do to secure a lynch for us at this point.

[Bookitty]

Since everyone obviously can see that Saki is going to be lynched, it might be a good idea for people to give their reads at this point in case they are targeted for the nightkill.

Townreads:

Vezok, Team 9, SB, Marquis, Seohyun, Slandaar

Nullreads:

notscience (lean town), Min, Not Mafia, Okapoka (lean town), NintendoFan (lean scum at this point)

Scumreads:

Yoloswag123, Flames682, Flames of Disaster

Yoloswag123 has moved to scum because of lurking/not posting. NintendoFan has moved to lean-scum because of his persistent lurking as well. Okapoka moved up to null lean town because he moved his vote when he didn't have to and wasn't under pressure just to help us get a lynch.

[Bookitty]

At this point, either I'm wrong and I'm going to live or I'm right and I'm going to die. It's not like being careful now will make that big a difference now

[Bookitty]

I really liked playing with all of you. In retrospect, I am glad I died night one (I don't know why, though, since I was pretty comprehensively wrong). I knew (well, I was really sure) that Slandaar was town. I probably would have argued and gotten all grouchy!

Good game, scum. Well played!

[Bookitty]

You died for trying to solve the game.

But I was teh SUCK at that!

Just saying.

[Bookitty]

Also, I read the town dead thread. You were absolutely nailing things there. Don't sell yourself short.

I'm sorry I ONCE AGAIN missed the chance to actually play with you in a game we were both in.

I'm planning on sticking around a while, so we'll get a chance!

And awww, <3 Varsoon. Right back at you

[Bookitty]

Also did masons had daychat?

No. We talked for the first time night one

[Bookitty]

Cut Slandaar some slack. I think he was wholly responsible for Saki mislynch

No. I was equally responsible for lynching Saki, if not more so. I was completely wrong there and I take the blame.