Micro 408: Maru's Mollas Grand Idea Mafia

[Pine]

I understand my role

[Pine]

Boom. Innuendoed

[Pine]

A little bit V/LA until Tuesday morning. Probably should have taken V/LA for the whole weekend, hence my absence

[Pine]

Kinda lame to do that at game start, I'll use what time I've got here

[Pine]

Lynch Pine while he's gone guys

I will cut you. Lovingly, ofc. Big balls are not to be wasted

So tell me fuduzn my friend, is your strategy to attempt to be offensive to everyone so they will see you a town, or are you just an asshole?

Hey buddy, get thicker skin. It's gonna get rough in here, and if you think that's mean, you ain't gonna survive when people think you're the legit bad guy

Hey, just having some fun pre game.

Mmm, fun with assholes(also I imagine fun with assholes is popular around here).

That's stupid.

I'm down /Iglesias

[Pine]

My limited access turned into no access unexpectedly, then went much longer than anticipated. I'm back online and will be trying to get current over the next 24 hours. Please be patient, I have several fast-moving games to catch up to.

Note to self: 44

[Pine]

Okay, first real!post

Claiming third party, not anti-Town

My role is publicly confirmable, but only through night actions

I have no killing abilities

My wincon does not challenge the Town wincon

Given that I am part of the uninformed majority, I am going to take a Town mindset, as it's simply more productive and entertaining for me to do so

[Pine]

No.

This is actually a really iffy role that I'd call semi-bastard

[Pine]

No.

This is actually a really iffy role that I'd call semi-bastard

1) Are you alligned with flames, who is also claiming to be TP?
2) What's the likelihood you both have the same role, like he's hinting at?

These questions will determine whether or not we're lynching him.

The odds of similar/same roles is very small. Without actually running the odds, something between 0.5-1%

Not co-aligned

[Pine]

Umm. Do not agree with the text of that Town wincon. Not "all thirds" are a threat to Town. Survivor, for example, is a third party, and it is explicitly not a threat. Neither is my role

[Pine]

I only need to survive a night or two before I achieve my wincon.

We should lynch those with killing powers first.

Same, more or less. Might take longer than that, but it shouldn't

Let me put it this way: if we do have an aggro scum faction, such as a two-member mafia team or a serial killer, the existence of benign third party roles can, at worst, serve to stave off the scum team's wincon, as they'd have to eliminate them too

Scum wincon is contrary to my own

[Pine]

I guess my point is that there's a big difference between 'kill-em-all' scum and 'I have a non-standard, specific wincon' third party

[Pine]

The mod just confirmed the third parties need to be eliminated. Why are we not voting them?

Because we'll self-eliminate. Lynching us, especially D1, is a waste of a lynch

I am a pretty mad at Maru for adding the wincon of town right after I claimed. I would've definitely played different and not claimed if he put it in before the game started.

I agree

First night everyone uses their night action on someone, doesn't matter who.

Second night use it on Pine.

A no lynch would be nice today since it would increase the probability of me winning but I doubt town would want that.

Maruchan, are you shitting me? You put in two Cans of Whoopass? And didn't reroll?

[Pine]

St. Constantine could very easily be your scum. He's pouncing pretty hard on that low-hanging fruit, and clearly didn't give a fuck who he killed with that daykill

[Pine]

I've got no reason to OMGUS. I don't have the same wincon, remember? St. Constantine is biting really hard on the low-hanging fruit, despite us not being a threat and the fact that we'll self-eliminate

[Pine]

I've got no reason to OMGUS. I don't have the same wincon, remember? St. Constantine is biting really hard on the low-hanging fruit

...

You have no reason to scumhunt if your wincondition is really that different.

Sure I do. I'd be bored otherwise

Full claim the third party role. Almost all TP roles involve killing someone, so you really need to give us some more information.

I don't. Scout's honor. Wouldn't have claimed at all if there were any way for me to lose OTHER than being lynched

Full claim the third party role. Almost all TP roles involve killing someone, so you really need to give us some more information.

Not true

Maruchan, are you shitting me? You put in two Cans of Whoopass? And didn't reroll?

Gee guys it was really hard to read this.

This

Okay, full claim time, as I've already been 90% outed. I am an Ascetic Can of Whoopass. I can choose to take a self-targeting action that negates all night actions targeting me, which reveals some message in the morning about having opened a can of Whoopass. When I've whooped the asses of 1/3 of living players, I win and leave the game

Realtalk? Town, target me with night actions to eliminate me and achieve your wincon. Scum, target me with your night actions because it will remove me and reduce the Scum:Not scum ratio. Everyone profits by targeting me with night actions

[Pine]

Also, there's like five versions of the role in the thread, so it's entirely possible that Flames is one too. It's just kind of balls that Maruchan didn't reroll them, as it's kind of a balls role

[Pine]

Okay, here's what we're going to do. Flames claimed that his role is a more buffed up version of Pines can of whoopass. I'm almost certain one of them is lying, but in the intrest of information, both should paraphrase their role PM.
Flames, without saying the exact words of Maruchan, paraphrase your role pm.
Pine, do the same right after.

We can check for discrepancies.

Don't have to, I told you exactly what it was. The only buffed-up version is Bulletproof Can of Whoopass 1-shot lightningrod, which means Flames is out of the game Night One. Your insistence on trying to lynch a provable, self-eliminating non-threat is baffling, either as scum play or Townplay

The concerning thing is that Pines had guessed Flames role before he himself had claimed it.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a terrible scum play that went bad.

My role is also provable. It's just plain the truth, long odds be damned

[Pine]

Wasn't hard to guess when he described half of what I had, added to Maru's suggestion that it wouldn't look like a normal game

Look, there's at least two TP roles here, but we're both harmless in the long run. 7/1/1 doesn't make much sense as a setup, so you probably have different scum. How about you focus on the guys that don't have provable, self-eliminating roles?

I suggest taking a look at the folks that have been taking advantage of the distraction

[Pine]

siv is desperate to lynch anyone, he's still scum , can we lynch him now?

Disagree both with interpretation and suggestion. If he were out for anyone, he'd be ganging up with Constantine on the low-hanging fruit, not defending them

Lrn 2 atak rite

[Pine]

No

Low-hanging fruit would be the people that have gone out on a limb, declared themselves non-Town, and thrown themselves upon the dubious mercy of other players' use of logic

Going after someone who hasn't posted much in an effort to engage them or put pressure on them is not only not scummy, it's a Townish move

[Pine]

Having a known alignment and an impartial perspective is actually kind of liberating. I don't feel any obligation to play the bullshit game, and can call you people on your nonsense without worrying whether my alignment bias is affecting my perception

PE: Yeah, and starting a wagon from scratch on someone that hasn't acted Townie yet is SUPER scummy and low-hanging. You're misinterpreting the phrase, my man

[Pine]

Or "they"

[Pine]

Sorry, Garmr, I'm just not seeing it. From a neutral perspective, Siv's vote is entirely reasonable

[Pine]

Really?

Mark the date, I think a logical, dispassionate discussion just happened on mafiascum.net

[Pine]

Flames682: Self-eliminating TP (prob Bulletproof Can of Whoopass 1-shot lightningrod)
Siveure DtTrikyp
LostPatience
Aleumdaum
Garmr: Town, suicidal
Pine: Self-eliminating TP (Ascetic Can of Whoopass)
St Constantine the Hermit: 1-shot day kill, which makes him either Town or SK (I don't see any day killing group scum in the parent thread, could be wrong. Much more probability to be Town than the single SK role)
BBmolla
Fuduzn: Dead Town

Looks like the lynch pool is Siv, LostPatience, Aleumdaum, and Molla

Unvote

[Pine]

Hmm. Point. Perhaps my Control-F search wasn't refined enough. Throw Constantine back on the pile, with the marks against him (shooting first without regard for reads, eagerness to lynch low-hanging fruit) back in full force

[Pine]

We need to be targeted by 1/3 of LIVING players. It becomes easier the longer we go

Scum has incentive to target us because removing us reduces the groupscum : notgroupscum ratio, helping them win

I've explained both of these points. It is both pro-Town and pro-scum to target us

[Pine]

By the way, as a bulletproof lightningrod, Flames guarantees no N1 kills

[Pine]

Ergo, voting him is actively anti-Town

[Pine]

Actually, Flames, you said you're a more powerful version of the Ascetic Can of Whoopass, there's only one more powerful version

Constantine, I'm pretty sure you're actively not listening now. I mean, you listed three third parties, we only have two. Garmr was one, but Underdog becomes the alignment of the first player killed, so he's Town because FuDuzn was Town

Yes, Town requires that Third Parties be eliminated, but we aren't a threat. I have zero mechanical ability to cause any harm whatsoever to Town. Zero. I don't have a kill. At absolute worst, we work together to eliminate the real threats, whether they be groupscum or SK, and then just sit around with me unable to kill anyone and powerless Townies unable to target me to fulfill their wincon

By the way, Mod, that's why you need to alter Town wincon. It creates the possibility of an infinite game for non-threat TPs and Townies to just sit there staring at the wall. Please alter the wincon accordingly, or at least create a specific exception or something. Your wording is untenable

[Pine]

Maruchan did say that third parties are a threat to town.

I mean, seriously.

If nothing else makes it through your dense skull, maybe this will.

Yes, with wincon written as it is, we are a "threat" to Town.

Groupscum and SKs are a bigger threat, as they actually have to kill you

Idiot

[Pine]

No.

This is actually a really iffy role that I'd call semi-bastard

This is the problem, Constantine. You don't listen. Not that Flames and I are getting angry over you not listening

[Pine]

Feel free to "not believe our claims". The role gives a public message when used, so if it doesn't, lynch away

But right now, you're using this wit hunt as an excuse to do exactly zero real scumhunting, which makes me think you might be the legit scum here

[Pine]

It's really sad when the claimed TPs are doing more scumhunting than 83% of the claimed Town (Garmr, you're the 17%)

PE: Let's see, I already answered the part about me claiming for Flames (there was only one role in the Grand Idea thread that fit his bread crumbing). I don't get where you're inventing a 4 players who have a targeting ability from. I actually responded to that by reminding you, again, that it's 1/3 of LIVING players, not starting players. It gets easier for us to exit as the game goes on. Yes, Town has to eliminate the TPs, but they don't have to waste their very few lynches by doing so, lynching CoWs is super anti-Town.

And I'm telling other people to lynch you because you're extremely scummy. You're wasting Town's time with anti-Town muckraking, you shot a Townie with zero regard for the better than 50% chance you'd hit a Townie, and you've done zero scumhunting

PE2: NO, GODDAMNIT. NOT THREE PEOPLE, 1/3. RIGHT THIS MINUTE IT'S 3. LATER IT DROPS TO 2, THEN 1, AND WE'RE GONE. LYNCHING SELF-ELIMINATING ROLES IS ANTITOWN

[Pine]

Fuck it. Constantine gets ignored until he pulls the stick out of his ass.

Let's do scumhunting


Siveure DtTrikyp - I was buying LP's scum case on Siv, but looking at them in ISO, I'm not really seeing it. Looks like bored or lost Town, but might not be. Need more to be sure
LostPatience - Seems to be making a reasonable effort. Has taken positions, reconsidered them using logic, and revised accordingly. ProbTown
Aleumdaum - Active lurking, like REALLY bad. If I were scum right now, I'd probably be doing what she's doing, and flying under the radar
St Constantine the Hermit - Claimed Usurper. I've made my case. Anti-Town activity
BBMolla - V/LA, hasn't contributed anything, was kind of lurky. Knowing Molla, this could be a scum strategy, or he could be busy


Other
Garmr - Self-eliminating Town, gone N1
Pine - Self-eliminating TP
Flames682 - Self-eliminating TP, gone N1

Best vote is Aleumdaum, if for no other reason than to force her to come to the table and give something to analyze. Constantine may also be scum, but that will play out in time

Vote: Aleumdaum

That's L-2. Get in here and do something productive

[Pine]

There a 1werewolf , 2 mafia day, 1 vig serial killer day vig and A hell of a lot of rerollers that could pick up a day vig.(rerollers are roles that make you alignment so you could have a werewolf los vegas for example.)

Garmr and I already discussed the possibility of scum daykillers. In the parent thread, there's actually a lot of them.

As for optimal play, that's kind of a WIFOM discussion. It is

distinctly

anti-Town, which makes it suboptimal for any alignment. Were I a scum daykiller, I'd save it for late D1, declare the person I wanted dead wasn't getting lynched, and then shoot a scumbuddy. Ride to victory on the presumption of Doc protection, then later say scum was keeping me around as mislynch bait. I'd more or less do the same as Town

[Pine]

People also tend to get irate when you're a complete knob

[Pine]

Maybe you should respond to post 235 and get on topic

[Pine]

LP approached the TP situation with a kneejerk reaction, listened to arguments, asked the right questions, and made a reasoned decision

[Pine]

247 contains several falsehoods, already debunked

[Pine]

Yes, according to me. The falsehoods you're stating aren't "I think this is a lie," it's "So and so said this, and this is gospel fact," when they're not. For example, you've said that Flames and I have stated two different wincons. False. Role is impossible to achieve wincon. Also false. Role requires three players to target them, ALSO FALSE. Seriously, how many times do we have to say it? It's 1/3 of living players, not 1/3 of starting players. At day start D2, there will be six players in the game. That's TWO actions needed, one of which is the scum factional kill. Again, it is in scum's favor to take that action, as it reduces the player ratio.

The point about Town not getting defensive is moronic, wrong, and contradictory. I'm saying Third Party, you're saying scum. Pick one

[Pine]

Meh, I'm fourth party. Get off my damn lawn

[Pine]

Okay, flash of inspiration just hit me. I'm starting to see where Maru's odd Town wincon is coming from

Okay, so there has to be a bare minimum of 5 Townies, yeah? Because it has to start with a minimum of 5:4 // Town:not Town

With three TP roles, that means a maximum of 1 standard scum to start

Garmr is a suicidal underdog. If Maru hadn't made the wincon what he did, and we'd lynched or dayvig'd the only scum player, the game would have ended right there. Garmr would take on the Mafia/Werewolf/Cult/whatever wincon, immediately died, immediately lost. With the CoWs not a threat, Town would have an outright win before any night phase happened, which would cause us both to lose immediately

This way gives the chance that we'd have "as close to a normal game as possible" or whatever Maru said

There is, therefore, an obvious plan. Lynch the only member of the standard scumteam, and they're the only ones that can lose

[Pine]

Lol @ setting up lynches

[Pine]

Nah, I was wrong about active lurking. You'd have responded before now if that were the case

Chocolate Townie sounds legit, maybe. I'd probably do what Aleumdaum is doing too. Hell, if Constantine weren't being such an ass I'd probably not have gotten as interested and involved as I am

Still think Constantine might be your scum

Hmm

Other than that, Molla, LP, Siv

Unvote
Vote: BBMolla

Time to shake this up

[Pine]

Umm,mno. The insta-daykill is one of the least Townish things Constantine has done. Town doesn't walk into a crowded room and open fire with a better than 50% chance of hitting Town. Plus, there's a bunch of scum daykill roles to be accounted for

Really, really not liking that sudden turnaround and buddying

[Pine]

Yeah, smart scum would do that, as would any Town. It's badplay for any alignment, but makes no sense at all for Town. Scum at least might play it off and try to coast on the notion of daykill=Town

[Pine]

Wow

Seriously, mod fail

Yes, modded correctly by letter of the law

Failed the common sense test

[Pine]

Garmr and Flames, well played

Constantine, total fail. Anti-Town play

Rest of Town, where the hell were you?

[Pine]

I mean, I get it that 90% of the discussion had to do with seeping up interpretation of TP issues, but most of that problem was because Town refused to get in there and scumhunt

Not that it would've ended up doing any good, but there was no effort

[Pine]

Make it macho