Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)


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Post Post #1700 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:14 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1440, Mathdino wrote:
In post 950, Mathdino wrote:Finally. So I did this right before the mod locked the thread, coloured it afterwards. Will analyse based on NK flip in a sec.
Spoiler: VC IIoA
Structure:
[Voter] -> [Votee], [number of votes on Votee], [stated reason if any (I'll put a link if there's a bunch of reasoning)]
[Unvoter] XX [Unvotee], [number of votes on Unvotee], [stated reason if any]

acryon
->
Victor
, 1, RV (later says vote stands due to Victor's questioning/defending)
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 1, RV
Victor
->
Mathdino
, 1, RV
BMWS
->
TTH
, 1, RV
Wisdom
->
NM
, 1, RV
SilverWolf
->
Mathdino
, 2, RV/jokingly OMGUS
Malakittens
->
Wisdom
, 1, RV
Wisdom
XX
NM
, 0
Wisdom
->
Mathdino
, 3, "I like wagons"
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 2, "this is not sitting well with me"
wgeurts
XX
Wisdom
, 1, "it's all a reaction test"/"there's nothing to gain here"
Victor
XX
Mathdino
, 2
Victor
->
wgeurts
, 1, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf
, 0
Mathdino
->
Victor
, 2, asking suspicious questions
TTH
->
Wisdom
, 2, "Not_Mafia and Wisdom have both telegraphed scumreads on Victor, but they seem a lot more guarded about it"
SilverWolf
XX
Mathdino
, 1
SilverWolf
->
Victor
, 3, "making way too much of a simple question as though you are looking for a reason to suspect someone"
Malakittens
XX
Wisdom
, 1
Malakittens
->
acryon
, 1, "I don't like Acyron injecting here"/forced looking posts
Newbie
->
wgeurts
, 2, reaction testing and general sketchiness
wgeurts
->
Newbie
, 1, "her vote was very opportunistic and he hasn't scum hunted"
Mathdino
XX
Victor
, 2
Mathdino
->
wgeurts
, 3, mason fishing
BMWS
XX
TTH
, 0
BMWS
->
wgeurts
, 4, "to add pressure on you so that you'll create a good defense to Mathdino's accusations"
wgeurts
XX
Newbie

wgeurts
->
wgeurts
, 5, "I'm town and I'd rather die quickly and give you info"
wgeurts
XX
wgeurts
, 4, "As requested"
Wisdom
XX
Mathdino
, 0
Wisdom
->
wgeurts
, 5, "I don't like this quick recovery"
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 2, =24679#p6313218]Here's the votepost and here's his case later on
SilverWolf
XX
Victor
, 1
SilverWolf
->
Wisdom
, 3, "You remind me of scum trying to push the easiest mislynch"
Newbie
XX
wgeurts
, 4
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 4, "I actually agree with the case [wgeurts] made against you"
Mathdino
XX
wgeurts
, 3
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 1, Here's the context but just read my case if you wanna know
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf
, 0
Mathdino
->
wgeurts
, 4, SilverWolf descended to 2nd on my scumlist
acryon
XX
Victor
, 0
acryon
->
SilverWolf
, 1, Here's his case and here's another
Mathdino
XX
wgeurts
, 3
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 2, I didn't like her reaction to me/Wisdom/acryon
Malakittens
XX
acryon
, 0, "I do like Acyron's latest posts so .... yeah..."
Constantine
->
Victor
, 1, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf/Riddleton
, 1, she was getting replaced
Constantine
XX
Victor
, 0, no stated reason
NM
->
Victor
, 1, no stated reason
Constantine
->
Mathdino
, 1, thinks I'm scum with Victor
BMWS
XX
wgeurts
, 2
BMWS
->
Constantine
, 1 "I don't like you, Constantine
Wisdom
XX
wgeurts
, 1
Wisdom
->
Malakittens
, 1, "I'm not happy with her play. She needs to do more, starting with explaining her reads."
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 2, pointing out associations
Constantine
XX
Mathdino
, 0, "Emotion is a town tell"
Constantine
->
Victor
, 2, no stated reason
TTH
XX
Wisdom
, 3, confusion
wgeurts
XX
Wisdom
, 2
wgeurts
->
Constantine
, 3, "for all these comtradictions"
TTH
->
Victor
, 3, PoE and looking through ISO
TTH
XX
Victor
, 2, "I'm having a reference frame crisis."
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 1, let's not talk about this
Riddleton
XX
Wisdom
, 0
Riddleton
->
Victor
, 3, muddafuckin' case
TTH
->
Victor
, 4, here ya go
Wisdom
XX
Malakittens
, 0
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 4, "bullshit about scumtells"
acryon
XX
Riddleton
, 0
acryon
->
Constantine
, 5, mini case
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 4
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1, "more likely lynch"
Newbie
->
Victor
, 5, reasons above
Wisdom
XX
Constantine
, 3
Wisdom
->
Riddleton
, 2, probably same as me
wgeurts
XX
Constantine
, 2
wgeurts
->
Victor
, 6, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 3, "Riddleton's last post is convincing enough"
Wisdom
XX
Riddleton
, 0
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 4, presumably to get a lynch
Malakittens
->
Victor
, 7, HAMMERTIME

Spoiler: VCI&A
Malakittens
->
Wisdom
, 1, not going to try to explain this
Riddleton
->
Malakittens
, 1, unknown
Constantine
->
acryon
, 1, unknown (-_-)
Constantine
XX
acryon
, 0
Constantine
->
Mathdino
, 1, disagreement on RVS tells
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 1, reasons already explained + bad lynching strategies
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 1, presumably D1 reasons + flip
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 0
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1, case
Wisdom
->
Malakittens
, 2, case
Not_Mafia
->
Wisdom
, 2, unknown
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 2, "I want to see what acryon has to say"
Constantine
XX
Mathdino
, 0
Constantine
->
acryon
, 1, unknown (-__-)
Wisdom
XX
Malakittens
, 1
Wisdom
->
Not_Mafia
, 1, not answering questions
wgeurts
->
Not_Mafia
, 2, ditto
acryon
->
Constantine
, 1, case + D1 reasons
borkjerfkin
->
Constantine
, 2, not answering questions or explaining arguments
borkjerfkin
XX
Constantine
, 1
borkjerfkin
->
Riddleton
, 2, Victor interactions
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Not_Mafia
, 3, pressure
Mathdino
XX
Not_Mafia
, 2, playing his town meta
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 2
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 3, likes this post by acryon
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 2, wgeurts wrote a "solid case" on Mala
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 2, mason fishing
borkjerfkin
XX
Riddleton
, 0
borkjerfkin
->
Wisdom
, 3, because "1287 is absolute balls"
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 1, not feeding the troll
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1
Constantine
XX
acryon
, 0
Constantine
->
Riddleton
, 2, to sheep
Riddleton
XX
Malakittens
, 0
Riddleton
->
Constantine
, 2, "The overreaction coupled with the hardcore defence of me makes me want to reevaluate my townread on him."
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 3, policy
wgeurts
XX
Not_Mafia
, 1
wgeurts
->
Malakittens
, 1, case


Let's do this again real quick.
Spoiler: VCIIoA
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 2
Mathdino
->
Wisdom
, 4, read the thread if you don't know why
acryon
XX
Constantine
, 1
acryon
->
Wisdom
, 5, case
Mathdino
XX
Wisdom
, 4, "just in case town gets jumpy."
acryon
XX
Wisdom
, 3, see above
Riddleton
XX
Constantine
, 0
Riddleton
->
Malakittens
, 2, Riddlecase
Riddleton
XX
Malakittens
, 1, borkjerfkin claims mason
Riddleton
->
Constantine
, 1
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 4, "If he knew he wasn't a mason, I wonder he didn't deny it..."
Wisdom
XX
Not_Mafia
, 0, borkjerfkin claims mason
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 2, WKing
Mathdino
->
Wisdom
, 5, to get last words/case out of him
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 6, HAMMERTIME


Edit: Dammit.
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Post Post #1701 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:04 am

Post by Mathdino »

Victor, BMWS, and SilverWolf/Riddleton


is the first interaction, in which SW semi-awkwardly rambles about how Victor questioning about meta is weird: "It's possible you just want to question Mathdino like you said, but this seems an odd thing to question him about" and ends up FoSing him and voting him. After Mala questions, rambles more and pretty much sheeps the suspicions of others (we went over this).

Here in 121 SW quotes a damn good remark by acryon by calling him out like Mala did on answering questions for people: "You say you are worried about scum controlling the flow of conversations, but don't you think you are doing the same thing by injecting yourself into the conversation and trying to control it?"
This is odd.
SW is currently voting Victor, yet she takes the hypocrisy argument on acryon, in effect soft defending him.

This entire post by Victor, as I said, points to SilverWolf. Nothing new here.

WHOA. Okay. This is weird. wgeurts claims there was scum on his wagon, and SilverWolf responds saying Newbie and I were town and
outright asks him if it's VDA or BMWS
. I don't know if scum like to talk about their teammates like that so overtly.
Input please?
Victor responds saying that wagon analysis is useless preflip.

BMWS's first post directed at SW. He criticises her "incredibly charged response" to my case on her and saying she was "attacking him for pointing out that you haven't posted anything of value. I'm not quite sure how much this affects my opinions of you, Silver", ending the post saying he liked her point on Wisdom and is still undecided. Hmm. Would there be much point in jumping on the interrogation train with a townie while slamming his scumbuddy's reaction? He didn't exactly drop it later. SW responds to BMWS's later summary just saying that she'd deadline lynch wgeurts and thinks BMWS is town.

Once again, Victor's next reads list points straight to SW, saying "If Wisdom is town I can see SilverWolf being scum" and "If Wgeurtes flips scum then [BMWS] should be tomorrows flip". VDA and Silver then have an interesting interaction starting here, where they argue about the case on Silver and Victor criticises her for trying to pull hypocrisy on acryon.

Here BMWS remains undecided on Silver, saying "The arguments against her are much, much stronger than her (pretty weak) defenses" and then following up by asking SilverWolf to create a defence "in order to prevent [his] conversion". Then in response, SilverWolf flip flops on BMWS completely, calling him out for IIoA and opportunism. BMWS responds explaining that he's trying to come to a good decision and once again asks her to make a defence.

Heh. SilverWolf's reads list and her reads on Victor, TTH, and wgeurts. Still slightly suspicious of BMWS, townread on Victor.

is another response to BMWS claiming wgeurts/Silver would be possible, and she asks him "How common is it for scum to blatantly defend their partners in these games knowing it will be linked back to them because I haven't seen it." One a sidenote, I think this post semi-proves how unlikely Riddleton/acryon are, seeing as SW pretty much slammed him for what she saw as attributing other people's posts to her, but implicitly townread him as he's "searching for anything to build a case".

Enter Riddleton. Everything that can be said about Riddleton/Victor's been said already. discusses the problems with Riddleton's case and asks Riddleton to defend against Wisdom, to which Riddle refuses.

From there on, not much other interaction. However, I noticed a glaring point.
Does anyone else think BMWS would've just asked his scumpartners what TTH, Newbie, and Wisdom were talking about when TTH convinced herself Wisdom was scum? There's no reason he should have to ask again, since he said he thought he got it. A ton of questions could've been answered N1. Honestly that one point hammers home BMWS-town independent of who the next scum we bag is.
Hmm. PoE and plans in the next post.
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Post Post #1702 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:15 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1440, Mathdino wrote:
In post 950, Mathdino wrote:Finally. So I did this right before the mod locked the thread, coloured it afterwards. Will analyse based on NK flip in a sec.
Spoiler: VC IIoA
Structure:
[Voter] -> [Votee], [number of votes on Votee], [stated reason if any (I'll put a link if there's a bunch of reasoning)]
[Unvoter] XX [Unvotee], [number of votes on Unvotee], [stated reason if any]

acryon
->
Victor
, 1, RV (later says vote stands due to Victor's questioning/defending)
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 1, RV
Victor
->
Mathdino
, 1, RV
BMWS
->
TTH
, 1, RV
Wisdom
->
NM
, 1, RV
SilverWolf
->
Mathdino
, 2, RV/jokingly OMGUS
Malakittens
->
Wisdom
, 1, RV
Wisdom
XX
NM
, 0
Wisdom
->
Mathdino
, 3, "I like wagons"
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 2, "this is not sitting well with me"
wgeurts
XX
Wisdom
, 1, "it's all a reaction test"/"there's nothing to gain here"
Victor
XX
Mathdino
, 2
Victor
->
wgeurts
, 1, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf
, 0
Mathdino
->
Victor
, 2, asking suspicious questions
TTH
->
Wisdom
, 2, "Not_Mafia and Wisdom have both telegraphed scumreads on Victor, but they seem a lot more guarded about it"
SilverWolf
XX
Mathdino
, 1
SilverWolf
->
Victor
, 3, "making way too much of a simple question as though you are looking for a reason to suspect someone"
Malakittens
XX
Wisdom
, 1
Malakittens
->
acryon
, 1, "I don't like Acyron injecting here"/forced looking posts
Newbie
->
wgeurts
, 2, reaction testing and general sketchiness
wgeurts
->
Newbie
, 1, "her vote was very opportunistic and he hasn't scum hunted"
Mathdino
XX
Victor
, 2
Mathdino
->
wgeurts
, 3, mason fishing
BMWS
XX
TTH
, 0
BMWS
->
wgeurts
, 4, "to add pressure on you so that you'll create a good defense to Mathdino's accusations"
wgeurts
XX
Newbie

wgeurts
->
wgeurts
, 5, "I'm town and I'd rather die quickly and give you info"
wgeurts
XX
wgeurts
, 4, "As requested"
Wisdom
XX
Mathdino
, 0
Wisdom
->
wgeurts
, 5, "I don't like this quick recovery"
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 2, =24679#p6313218]Here's the votepost and here's his case later on
SilverWolf
XX
Victor
, 1
SilverWolf
->
Wisdom
, 3, "You remind me of scum trying to push the easiest mislynch"
Newbie
XX
wgeurts
, 4
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 4, "I actually agree with the case [wgeurts] made against you"
Mathdino
XX
wgeurts
, 3
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 1, Here's the context but just read my case if you wanna know
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf
, 0
Mathdino
->
wgeurts
, 4, SilverWolf descended to 2nd on my scumlist
acryon
XX
Victor
, 0
acryon
->
SilverWolf
, 1, Here's his case and here's another
Mathdino
XX
wgeurts
, 3
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 2, I didn't like her reaction to me/Wisdom/acryon
Malakittens
XX
acryon
, 0, "I do like Acyron's latest posts so .... yeah..."
Constantine
->
Victor
, 1, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf/Riddleton
, 1, she was getting replaced
Constantine
XX
Victor
, 0, no stated reason
NM
->
Victor
, 1, no stated reason
Constantine
->
Mathdino
, 1, thinks I'm scum with Victor
BMWS
XX
wgeurts
, 2
BMWS
->
Constantine
, 1 "I don't like you, Constantine
Wisdom
XX
wgeurts
, 1
Wisdom
->
Malakittens
, 1, "I'm not happy with her play. She needs to do more, starting with explaining her reads."
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 2, pointing out associations
Constantine
XX
Mathdino
, 0, "Emotion is a town tell"
Constantine
->
Victor
, 2, no stated reason
TTH
XX
Wisdom
, 3, confusion
wgeurts
XX
Wisdom
, 2
wgeurts
->
Constantine
, 3, "for all these comtradictions"
TTH
->
Victor
, 3, PoE and looking through ISO
TTH
XX
Victor
, 2, "I'm having a reference frame crisis."
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 1, let's not talk about this
Riddleton
XX
Wisdom
, 0
Riddleton
->
Victor
, 3, muddafuckin' case
TTH
->
Victor
, 4, here ya go
Wisdom
XX
Malakittens
, 0
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 4, "bullshit about scumtells"
acryon
XX
Riddleton
, 0
acryon
->
Constantine
, 5, mini case
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 4
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1, "more likely lynch"
Newbie
->
Victor
, 5, reasons above
Wisdom
XX
Constantine
, 3
Wisdom
->
Riddleton
, 2, probably same as me
wgeurts
XX
Constantine
, 2
wgeurts
->
Victor
, 6, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 3, "Riddleton's last post is convincing enough"
Wisdom
XX
Riddleton
, 0
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 4, presumably to get a lynch
Malakittens
->
Victor
, 7, HAMMERTIME

Day's long enough that I don't want to have to do this again in full by twilight. This time this'll actually have a point, though.
Spoiler: VCI&A
Malakittens
->
Wisdom
, 1, not going to try to explain this
Riddleton
->
Malakittens
, 1, unknown
Constantine
->
acryon
, 1, unknown (-_-)
Constantine
XX
acryon
, 0
Constantine
->
Mathdino
, 1, disagreement on RVS tells
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 1, reasons already explained + bad lynching strategies
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 1, presumably D1 reasons + flip
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 0
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1, case
Wisdom
->
Malakittens
, 2, case
Not_Mafia
->
Wisdom
, 2, unknown
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 2, "I want to see what acryon has to say"
Constantine
XX
Mathdino
, 0
Constantine
->
acryon
, 1, unknown (-__-)
Wisdom
XX
Malakittens
, 1
Wisdom
->
Not_Mafia
, 1, not answering questions
wgeurts
->
Not_Mafia
, 2, ditto
acryon
->
Constantine
, 1, case + D1 reasons
borkjerfkin
->
Constantine
, 2, not answering questions or explaining arguments
borkjerfkin
XX
Constantine
, 1
borkjerfkin
->
Riddleton
, 2, Victor interactions
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Not_Mafia
, 3, pressure
Mathdino
XX
Not_Mafia
, 2, playing his town meta
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 2
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 3, likes this post by acryon
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 2, wgeurts wrote a "solid case" on Mala
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 2, mason fishing
borkjerfkin
XX
Riddleton
, 0
borkjerfkin
->
Wisdom
, 3, because "1287 is absolute balls"
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 1, not feeding the troll
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1
Constantine
XX
acryon
, 0
Constantine
->
Riddleton
, 2, to sheep
Riddleton
XX
Malakittens
, 0
Riddleton
->
Constantine
, 2, "The overreaction coupled with the hardcore defence of me makes me want to reevaluate my townread on him."
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 3, policy
wgeurts
XX
Not_Mafia
, 1
wgeurts
->
Malakittens
, 1, case

Okay, so here's the thing. We've established that the TTH NK is very WIFOMy. Could be to stop a Wisdom wagon, could be to implicate him, and TTH was probably the best NK for either of these purposes as she was one of few whose read on him was unmanipulatable. But here's the thing. His wagon is tiny. It starts with
Malakittens
, followed by
Newbie
, followed by
Not_Mafia
, followed by
borkjerfkin
.

But that's it.

I won't go so far as to say that Wisdom vs Malakittens is TvS, but I will say that there's no question that either Wisdom is scum, or scum is on his wagon and/or is trying to get towncred from calling him town.
Riddleton
hasn't spoken on Wisdom.
Constantine
blind defended him.
wgeurts
is flip flopping but naturally.
acryon
called him town but is barely defending him at all.
Constantine
is the only one that's really implicated here but [hope]we're lynching him anyway[/hope].

Of course, Wisdom as scum could probably push a TTH lynch fairly well, so that seems weird.

Edit: Goddammit. Got distracted for a few hours, came back, and realised how silly this all is. Not deleting because it has the VC stuff and this analysis is the whole reason I did the VC.
The main point that's not total WIFOM is Newbie, Constantine, and to a lesser extent borkjerfkin are acting really weird about Wisdom.
Also I approve of the above post.

Remaining players are Mala, bork, NM, Constantine, Riddleton, Newbie, acryon, wgeurts, BMWS, and myself. I cross the masons and myself off the list, I get Constantine, Riddleton, Newbie, acryon, wgeurts, BMWS.

BMWS/Newbie is impossible, seeing as she would've told him what she meant in the scumthread.
acryon/Riddleton I'm finding unlikely.
Constantine/Riddleton is very unlikely. I should note that his willingness to lynch SilverWolf was obliterated after D1. I won't waste time questioning him about that.
BMWS/Constantine is bad.
wgeurts is a suboptimal choice.

Ugh. This is confusing. I still think Newbie as scum is possible now that Wisdom is scum.

We have 2 mislynches until we hit LyLo. I think the best options for that will be Constantine and Riddleton. If one of them flips scum, we can reevaluate. That said, if one of them does and BMWS isn't really a good option, I think I'm gonna have to go with Constantine/acryon and Riddleton/Newbie.

If they both flip town, we're gonna have a bad time. It'll be left to me, Newbie, wgeurts, acryon, and BMWS, in which case I'd be considering Newbie/acryon as the highest one.

None of this makes sense if Wisdom is town. I really hope he's lying here.

Wisdom, thoughts if you're still there?
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Post Post #1703 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:15 am

Post by Mathdino »

I don't know why I quoted that.
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Of the One
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Post Post #1704 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:18 am

Post by Wisdom »

You had my thoughts already. Constantine and blindme most likely. Outside chance on Riddle.
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Post Post #1705 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:22 am

Post by Mathdino »

Crossed fingers on Constantine then. G'night.

WGEURTS YOU DISAPPEARED
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Post Post #1706 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:31 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1440, Mathdino wrote:
In post 950, Mathdino wrote:Finally. So I did this right before the mod locked the thread, coloured it afterwards. Will analyse based on NK flip in a sec.
Spoiler: VC IIoA
Structure:
[Voter] -> [Votee], [number of votes on Votee], [stated reason if any (I'll put a link if there's a bunch of reasoning)]
[Unvoter] XX [Unvotee], [number of votes on Unvotee], [stated reason if any]

acryon
->
Victor
, 1, RV (later says vote stands due to Victor's questioning/defending)
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 1, RV
Victor
->
Mathdino
, 1, RV
BMWS
->
TTH
, 1, RV
Wisdom
->
NM
, 1, RV
SilverWolf
->
Mathdino
, 2, RV/jokingly OMGUS
Malakittens
->
Wisdom
, 1, RV
Wisdom
XX
NM
, 0
Wisdom
->
Mathdino
, 3, "I like wagons"
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 2, "this is not sitting well with me"
wgeurts
XX
Wisdom
, 1, "it's all a reaction test"/"there's nothing to gain here"
Victor
XX
Mathdino
, 2
Victor
->
wgeurts
, 1, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf
, 0
Mathdino
->
Victor
, 2, asking suspicious questions
TTH
->
Wisdom
, 2, "Not_Mafia and Wisdom have both telegraphed scumreads on Victor, but they seem a lot more guarded about it"
SilverWolf
XX
Mathdino
, 1
SilverWolf
->
Victor
, 3, "making way too much of a simple question as though you are looking for a reason to suspect someone"
Malakittens
XX
Wisdom
, 1
Malakittens
->
acryon
, 1, "I don't like Acyron injecting here"/forced looking posts
Newbie
->
wgeurts
, 2, reaction testing and general sketchiness
wgeurts
->
Newbie
, 1, "her vote was very opportunistic and he hasn't scum hunted"
Mathdino
XX
Victor
, 2
Mathdino
->
wgeurts
, 3, mason fishing
BMWS
XX
TTH
, 0
BMWS
->
wgeurts
, 4, "to add pressure on you so that you'll create a good defense to Mathdino's accusations"
wgeurts
XX
Newbie

wgeurts
->
wgeurts
, 5, "I'm town and I'd rather die quickly and give you info"
wgeurts
XX
wgeurts
, 4, "As requested"
Wisdom
XX
Mathdino
, 0
Wisdom
->
wgeurts
, 5, "I don't like this quick recovery"
wgeurts
->
Wisdom
, 2, =24679#p6313218]Here's the votepost and here's his case later on
SilverWolf
XX
Victor
, 1
SilverWolf
->
Wisdom
, 3, "You remind me of scum trying to push the easiest mislynch"
Newbie
XX
wgeurts
, 4
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 4, "I actually agree with the case [wgeurts] made against you"
Mathdino
XX
wgeurts
, 3
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 1, Here's the context but just read my case if you wanna know
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf
, 0
Mathdino
->
wgeurts
, 4, SilverWolf descended to 2nd on my scumlist
acryon
XX
Victor
, 0
acryon
->
SilverWolf
, 1, Here's his case and here's another
Mathdino
XX
wgeurts
, 3
Mathdino
->
SilverWolf
, 2, I didn't like her reaction to me/Wisdom/acryon
Malakittens
XX
acryon
, 0, "I do like Acyron's latest posts so .... yeah..."
Constantine
->
Victor
, 1, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
SilverWolf/Riddleton
, 1, she was getting replaced
Constantine
XX
Victor
, 0, no stated reason
NM
->
Victor
, 1, no stated reason
Constantine
->
Mathdino
, 1, thinks I'm scum with Victor
BMWS
XX
wgeurts
, 2
BMWS
->
Constantine
, 1 "I don't like you, Constantine
Wisdom
XX
wgeurts
, 1
Wisdom
->
Malakittens
, 1, "I'm not happy with her play. She needs to do more, starting with explaining her reads."
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 2, pointing out associations
Constantine
XX
Mathdino
, 0, "Emotion is a town tell"
Constantine
->
Victor
, 2, no stated reason
TTH
XX
Wisdom
, 3, confusion
wgeurts
XX
Wisdom
, 2
wgeurts
->
Constantine
, 3, "for all these comtradictions"
TTH
->
Victor
, 3, PoE and looking through ISO
TTH
XX
Victor
, 2, "I'm having a reference frame crisis."
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 1, let's not talk about this
Riddleton
XX
Wisdom
, 0
Riddleton
->
Victor
, 3, muddafuckin' case
TTH
->
Victor
, 4, here ya go
Wisdom
XX
Malakittens
, 0
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 4, "bullshit about scumtells"
acryon
XX
Riddleton
, 0
acryon
->
Constantine
, 5, mini case
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 4
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1, "more likely lynch"
Newbie
->
Victor
, 5, reasons above
Wisdom
XX
Constantine
, 3
Wisdom
->
Riddleton
, 2, probably same as me
wgeurts
XX
Constantine
, 2
wgeurts
->
Victor
, 6, no stated reason
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 3, "Riddleton's last post is convincing enough"
Wisdom
XX
Riddleton
, 0
Wisdom
->
Constantine
, 4, presumably to get a lynch
Malakittens
->
Victor
, 7, HAMMERTIME

Day's long enough that I don't want to have to do this again in full by twilight. This time this'll actually have a point, though.
Spoiler: VCI&A
Malakittens
->
Wisdom
, 1, not going to try to explain this
Riddleton
->
Malakittens
, 1, unknown
Constantine
->
acryon
, 1, unknown (-_-)
Constantine
XX
acryon
, 0
Constantine
->
Mathdino
, 1, disagreement on RVS tells
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 1, reasons already explained + bad lynching strategies
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 1, presumably D1 reasons + flip
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 0
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1, case
Wisdom
->
Malakittens
, 2, case
Not_Mafia
->
Wisdom
, 2, unknown
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 2, "I want to see what acryon has to say"
Constantine
XX
Mathdino
, 0
Constantine
->
acryon
, 1, unknown (-__-)
Wisdom
XX
Malakittens
, 1
Wisdom
->
Not_Mafia
, 1, not answering questions
wgeurts
->
Not_Mafia
, 2, ditto
acryon
->
Constantine
, 1, case + D1 reasons
borkjerfkin
->
Constantine
, 2, not answering questions or explaining arguments
borkjerfkin
XX
Constantine
, 1
borkjerfkin
->
Riddleton
, 2, Victor interactions
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Not_Mafia
, 3, pressure
Mathdino
XX
Not_Mafia
, 2, playing his town meta
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 2
Newbie
->
Wisdom
, 3, likes this post by acryon
Newbie
XX
Wisdom
, 2, wgeurts wrote a "solid case" on Mala
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 2, mason fishing
borkjerfkin
XX
Riddleton
, 0
borkjerfkin
->
Wisdom
, 3, because "1287 is absolute balls"
Mathdino
XX
Constantine
, 1, not feeding the troll
Mathdino
->
Riddleton
, 1
Constantine
XX
acryon
, 0
Constantine
->
Riddleton
, 2, to sheep
Riddleton
XX
Malakittens
, 0
Riddleton
->
Constantine
, 2, "The overreaction coupled with the hardcore defence of me makes me want to reevaluate my townread on him."
Mathdino
XX
Riddleton
, 1
Mathdino
->
Constantine
, 3, policy
wgeurts
XX
Not_Mafia
, 1
wgeurts
->
Malakittens
, 1, case

Okay, so here's the thing. We've established that the TTH NK is very WIFOMy. Could be to stop a Wisdom wagon, could be to implicate him, and TTH was probably the best NK for either of these purposes as she was one of few whose read on him was unmanipulatable. But here's the thing. His wagon is tiny. It starts with
Malakittens
, followed by
Newbie
, followed by
Not_Mafia
, followed by
borkjerfkin
.

But that's it.

I won't go so far as to say that Wisdom vs Malakittens is TvS, but I will say that there's no question that either Wisdom is scum, or scum is on his wagon and/or is trying to get towncred from calling him town.
Riddleton
hasn't spoken on Wisdom.
Constantine
blind defended him.
wgeurts
is flip flopping but naturally.
acryon
called him town but is barely defending him at all.
Constantine
is the only one that's really implicated here but [hope]we're lynching him anyway[/hope].

Of course, Wisdom as scum could probably push a TTH lynch fairly well, so that seems weird.

Edit: Goddammit. Got distracted for a few hours, came back, and realised how silly this all is. Not deleting because it has the VC stuff and this analysis is the whole reason I did the VC.
The main point that's not total WIFOM is Newbie, Constantine, and to a lesser extent borkjerfkin are acting really weird about Wisdom.
Also I approve of the above post.

Right, so here's the thing with that last point on BMWS (him just asking scumbuddy wtf TTH, Newbie, and Wisdom were talking about). It only works if we're looking at BMWS with a reasonably intuitive partner who saw what was happening.

BMWS/Newbie impossible, BMWS/acryon unlikely. Riddle was on V/LA at the time and Constantine is Constantine. So it doesn't really rule him out here.

This game looks like it'll end up as a choice between acryon and BMWS tbh.
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Post Post #1707 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:33 am

Post by Mathdino »

Sorry for spamposting but why the hell do I keep doing that...

Masons, I expect a verdict tomorrow on the gamestate.

@Mod: Could you freeze the night deadline to give NM's replacement time to catch up?
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Post Post #1708 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:20 am

Post by wgeurts »

Sorry dino, still not free.
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Post Post #1709 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:36 am

Post by acryon »

I always wake up to way more than I expected to.

Thoughts
-Wgeurts, what are you talking about? The masons are all confirmed; if any of them weren't actually masons, the others would out them and scum would hang, simple as that.
-Same with Mathdino, I also don't think it was painfully obvious who the masons were. I thought Mala hard-defending N_M was a little weird, but I also thought it was just her getting defensive because she thought we were attacking someone for being busy/having IRL stuff going on.
-If Wisdom flips scum here, this game gets incredibly easy.
-Whether he flips town or scum, I still think there is a good chance one of Riddleton/Constantine is scum, probably the latter.
-Wgeurts is obviously town, but playing absolutely terrible. FFS just read the thread man and you will stop misinterpreting what people are saying.
-I was hoping I would come back to us being able to get some more info out of Wisdom given that both Mathdino and myself unvoted, but somehow there was still a hammer :facepalm:
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Post Post #1710 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:40 am

Post by Mathdino »

acryon, can you look over my thoughts on Constantine, Riddleton, BMWS, and Newbie, assuming Wisdom is town? In essence:

- Constantine seems most likely scum.
- If it's Riddleton, partner is prob Newbie.
- BMWS cannot have had Newbie as a partner as she would've explained what happened.
- Gonna need input on Constantine/BMWS and Riddleton/BMWS.
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Post Post #1711 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:42 am

Post by Mathdino »

Also I want to note that if Wisdom flips scum, anything and everything he says after he was first put at L-1 today should be disregarded and ignored as a huge bag of WIFOM. He knew he was getting lynched for a long time, could be why he hasn't provided extremely in depth thoughts.

If he flips town, well, I think we got all the info we're gonna be getting out of him anyway.
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Post Post #1712 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:42 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

Can you guys give me second opinions about bmws interactions woth mala in twilight d1?
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Post Post #1713 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:44 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

Like I just don't see that blood in the water reaction from a buddy of quickhammered scum
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Post Post #1714 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:13 am

Post by reinoe »

MOD STUFF

Image
Don't Do it!!!!

VOTE COUNT!!!!

Wisdom- malakittens, Not_Mafia, borkjerfkin, Newbie, Mathdino, wgeurts
borkjerkfin-
wgeurts-
St. Constantine The Hermit- Riddleton, Wisdom
Newbie-
Malakittens-
Riddleton- St. Constantine
Not_Mafia-
Mathdino-
blindmewithscience-
acryon-

not voting- blindmewithscience, acryon,

Riddleton is V/LA until 11/5/2014
malakittens is V/LA until 11/11/2014
Looking for a replacement for Not_Mafia


With 11 Alive it's 6 to lynch.
(expired on 2014-11-14 21:00:00)

There's so much disarray as you guys argue and argue and argue!!! You miss DDR, you miss, lunch you miss dinner you miss everything because everyone is arguing and arguing!!!! Whaddya wanna do? "Nothing", replies Wisdom. Waddya wanna do? "I dunno" replies Wisdom. Waddya wanna do? "Oh let's just go to our rooms and chill". Wisdom is not being helpful. Wisdom's ideas are terrible. Wisdom has been sucking all the fun out of this cruise. But is he just apathetic, or has he really been trying to be a little Debbie Downer...
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #1715 (ISO) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:38 pm

Post by reinoe »

MOD STUFFImage

"There's more than one way to ruin a cruise. Yes my ancestor was the first Debbie Downer. No I mean that was her name. Debbie Downer. She was on the Titanic and it sunk because she was boring the Navigators to tears. And so they literally crashed into that iceberg on purpose to get her to shut up. That's my legacy!""

Wisdom begins laughing maniacally. He laughs so hard he passes out and bangs his head on the railing in the process. Well it could've been worse. He's taken off the cruise and dropped of at port to receive medical attention.


Wisdom was a member of the mafia and is no longer cruising!!! Night began a long time ago but will end at...

(expired on 2014-11-07 08:00:00)


Cheetory6 replaces Not_Mafia!!!
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #1716 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:59 am

Post by reinoe »

MOD STUFFImage
Cheetory is was that quiet guy that nobody ever talked to but everyone was friends with. He was actually best friends with Wisdom because he was the only person who wasn't bored to tears by Wisdom's antics. Cheetory suffers from such extreme heartbreak that he just can't go on.Even though only a few people ever talked to Cheetory everyone has great sadness. Will the friends find the enemies or will the last enemy be like that one last enemy ship in Galaga that you just can't catch?

Cheetory6
(TOWN MASON)
is no longer cruising.





VOTE COUNT!!!!

borkjerkfin-
wgeurts-
St. Constantine The Hermit-
Newbie-
Malakittens-
Riddleton-
Mathdino-
blindmewithscience-
acryon-

not voting- blindmewithscience, acryon, borkjerkfin, Mathdino, Riddleton, Malakittens, Newbie, St Constantine The Hermit, wgeurts


malakittens is V/LA until 11/11/2014



With 9 Alive it's 5 to lynch.
(expired on 2014-11-21 22:00:00)[/align][/area]
Last edited by reinoe on Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #1717 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:00 am

Post by Mathdino »

reinoe wrote:There's so much disarray as you guys argue and argue and argue!!! You out Mala, you out NM, you out bork, you out everyone because everyone is arguing and arguing!!!! Whoddya wanna lynch? "The hammerer?" replies Wisdom. Whoddya wanna lynch? "I dunno" replies Wisdom. Whoddya wanna lynch? "Oh let's just lynch the troll and chill". Wisdom is not being helpful. Wisdom's ideas are terrible. Wisdom has been sucking all the logic out of this game. But is he just apathetic, or has he really been trying to be a little Debbie Downer...
reinoe wrote:There's more than one way to manipulate a game. Yes my ancestor was the first Debbie Downer. No I mean that was her name. Debbie Downer. She was on the Titanic and town lost because she was trolling the Masons to tears. And so they literally dayvigged her on purpose to get her to shut up. That's my legacy!""

Wisdom begins laughing maniacally. He laughs so hard he passes out and bangs his head on wgeurts's hammer in the process. Well it could've been worse. He's taken off the game and dropped off at the dead thread to receive medical attention.

@mod: FTFY
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Post Post #1718 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:05 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

was not expecting that kill at all, but so much the better i guess.
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Post Post #1719 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:06 am

Post by Mathdino »

Alright folks, let's go for a perfect victory. I say we lynch Riddleton.
If anyone doesn't want to lynch Riddleton, take it up with me.


Here are the remaining players:
Mala - town mason
bork - town mason
BMWS - conftown because he shouldn't have been so confused at TTH's interaction with Wisdom if he could've asked him in the PT
Newbie - conftown because she unvoted Wisdom thinking he was a mason
wgeurts - conftown as the counterwagon to Wisdom and also interactions with Victor and wgeurts
Leaving me, acryon, Riddleton, and Constantine.

Read my case on SilverWolf. I even made one for why SilverWolf is implicated if Wisdom flips scum, if you'll recall. Riddleton and Constantine were the only ones that were really steadfast against Wisdom's lynch, but while Wisdom used Constantine as a counterwagon to Victor, he tried to argue against PLing Riddleton yesterday.

Riddleton is the answer. If not, then Constantine. If not, then me. And then when I flip town, lynch acryon and win. And if that doesn't work, lynch wgeurts and win.

Again, if anyone still thinks we should lynch Constantine, take it up with me. I'd be happy to explain more of my thought process here but I'd prefer speedlynching Riddle.
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Post Post #1720 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:07 am

Post by Mathdino »

Borkjerfkin, what's the masons' verdict? Did Cheetory have any insights?
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Post Post #1721 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:08 am

Post by Mathdino »

Oh, yeah, and
SUCK IT, CONSTANTINE.
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Post Post #1722 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:09 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

cheertory said he was gonna read and pressure acryon and riddleton, but that was about it. It was mostly me talking to myself.

Gimme a few; in a meeting.
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Post Post #1723 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:09 am

Post by acryon »

@Mathdino:

I wrote up a response to you before the end of the day and went to submit and the thread was locked ><

So here are my thoughts now re:
In post 1710, Mathdino wrote:acryon, can you look over my thoughts on Constantine, Riddleton, BMWS, and Newbie, assuming Wisdom is town? In essence:

- Constantine seems most likely scum.
- If it's Riddleton, partner is prob Newbie.
- BMWS cannot have had Newbie as a partner as she would've explained what happened.
- Gonna need input on Constantine/BMWS and Riddleton/BMWS.

-Agree.
-Agree.
-I wasn't sure exactly what you were referring to with this?
-I think Constantine/BMWS is far more likely than Riddleton/BMWS, although I don't think the latter is impossible. I would be shocked if Constantine wasn't scum.

Also poor Cheetory :lol:
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Post Post #1724 (ISO) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:11 am

Post by borkjerfkin »

In post 1723, acryon wrote:Constantine/BMWS is far more likely than Riddleton/BMWS


the fuck?
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