Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[Yukari Yakumo]

VC 3.04

Alchemist21 (2):

pirate mollie, Ankamius

mastin2 (3):

Saki, Time, Alchemist21

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

purple hero

ActionDan (6):

pieguyn, Curiosity, Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Mononoke, beeboy

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, ActionDan, Birds of Prey, mastin2

With 17 alive, 9 votes to lynch

Deadline: November 16, 3:10 PM EST.
Countdown: (expired on 2014-11-16 15:10:00)

[mastin2]

(Okay, admittedly, we're wagoning ActionDan, butstill...if I were scum this game, players like the above--in addition to pie and Curiosity--would TERRIFY me a whole heck of a lot more than notscience or Jingle, on sheer policy alone. What kind of screwed-up circumstances would lead notscience and Jingle to be their preferred nightkill?)

[Curiosity]

It's more weird if you consider I was tunneling and pushing him as scum D2. According to pie, they thought he's investigative and that's why. Dunno about that myself

~Wis

[mastin2]

I'm momentarily skipping D1 wagons since those are going to be more complex. With the exception of the end-of-day VC:

ActionDan (1):

beastcharizard

Kagami (11):

pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Mononoke

Jingle (3):

Om of the Nom, Ankamius, nopointinactingup

beeboy (1):

Kagami

haj (1):

Time

nopointinactingup (1)

: SXTLHGaiden

Om of the Nom (1):

purple hero

Ankamius (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

Not Voting:

Saki, ActionDan

Here are the names on the Kagami name not confirmed town. (I've removed my slot and the UNZAN vote, since both are town, thankyouverymuch.)

That's actually a pretty dang small number. Of 11, only four aren't confirmed. One's Mononoke, the Nacho/Sakura hydra. The other's mollie. Then we have Alchemist and beeboy.

haj (2):

nopointinactingup, Alchemist21

Om of the Nom (1):

Jingle

Alchemist21 (2):

Curiosity, Ankamius

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

pieguy (6):

Mononoke, Dreams of an Absolution, purple hero, beastcharizard, Time, beeboy

Not Voting:

pieguyn, Saki, Jakuzure Nonon, pirate mollie, ActionDan, SXTLHGaiden, Om of the Nom

That pie wagon looks pretty scumdriven to me.

Alchemist21 (5):

Ankamius, Mononoke, Jingle, Om of the Nom, Cusiority

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

pieguy (4):

purple hero, beastcharizard, beeboy, nopointinactingup

Jingle (1):

pirate mollie

ActionDan (3):

Dreams of an Absolution, pieguyn, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

Saki, Jakuzure Nonon, ActionDan, SXTLHGaiden, Time

That Dan wagon also doesn't look great to me. In contrast, the Alchemist wagon (with the exception of Mononoke--which sorta feels like it'd be a Nacho-bus) looks town to me.

Alchemist21 (1):

Om of the Nom

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

pieguy (1):

beeboy

Jingle (3):

Ankamius, Curiosity, nopointinactingup

ActionDan (2):

Dreams of an Absolution, pieguyn

Om of the Nom (7):

pirate mollie, purple hero, Mononoke, Alchemist21, Jingle, Saki, Jakuzure Nonon

Not Voting:

ActionDan, SXTLHGaiden, Time, beastcharizard

This Om wagon looks terrible.

Jakuzure Nonon (10):

ActionDan, Alchemist21, Saki, Mononoke, purple hero,

Time?

, pirate mollie

pieguy (1):

beeboy

Jingle (3):

Ankamius, Curiosity, nopointinactingup

ActionDan (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

haj (1):

Om of the Nom

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, pirate mollie, Jingle, Jakuzure Nonon

The lynch was reached 1 minute before Alchemist21's unvote at #3567.

Now if my slot claimed a false guilty on Jakuzure, then you can be pretty dang sure the scum would eat that up. In particular, purple hero catches my eye, as do the repeat-lynchwagon-voters, Alchemist, Mononoke, and mollie. (Alchemist did apparently try to unvote, though.)

With Jingle as the nightkill, you can be pretty sure scum weren't voting there, too.

Alchemist21 (4):

Om of the Nom, pirate mollie, Ankamius, Mononoke

SXTLHGaiden (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

haj (3):

Saki, Time, Alchemist21

nopointinactingup (2):

pieguyn, Curiosity

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

purple hero

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, ActionDan, beeboy, Mononoke, nopointinactingup, haj

Where'd this Alchemist wagon disappear to?

Alchemist21 (2):

pirate mollie, Ankamius

haj (4):

Saki, Time, Alchemist21, beeboy

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

purple hero

ActionDan (5):

pieguyn, Curiosity, Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Mononoke

Not Voting:

SXTLHGaiden, beastcharizard, ActionDan, nopointinactingup, haj

After the results of yesterday, you can be pretty dang sure scum are going to have at least one person LEAPING at the chance to mislynch me. Probably more than that. But this Dan wagon looks like it came out of nowhere, and the latter names aren't looking great to me.


tl;dr version: This is just me picking up random stuff from the VCs, but I'm looking at Mononoke (strongly), mollie (moderately), Alchemist (strongly), beeboy (moderately), Dreams (moderately-weak), purple hero (moderately-weak), and Saki (weakly). It's purely from VCA, not based off of anything in the game-thread, but it's worth giving a blind vote.

VOTE: Mononoke.
Because this sort-of feels like a Nacho-driven scumteam. The general air about the game.

[mastin2]

Oh.

I should mention the town I've gotten. Ankamius (moderate), Om (moderately-strong), Dan (moderately-strong), and nopointinactingup (weak).

Like I said, this is just off of blind VCA. So I'm not even going to compile a readslist. I've got isos to do.

[mastin2]

Oh, heck with it. This VCA is probably not gonna be great since it has no context from isos, but might as well take a stab at it.

Curiosity (2):

Kagami, pirate mollie

pieguyn (1):

Mononoke

Jingle (1):

Time

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

Jakuzure Nonon

Om of the Nom (1):

Dreams of an Absolution

ActionDan (3):

purple hero, notscience, pieguyn

beastcharizard (4):

Jingle, Ankamius, Om of the Nom, Curiosity

Kagami (1):

ActionDan

notscience (2):

beeboy, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

Saki, SXTLHGaiden, nopointinactingup, haj, beastcharizard

This is interesting. beast could be scum. I'll say this, though; there's a maximum of one scum between beast/Dreams. (Both could be town, of course. Just I find it extremely unlikely that both could be scum and cause the reaction here. Dreams from four votes to beast with four fairly town-looking votes.)

Curiosity (2):

Jakuzure Nonon, purple hero

Om of the Nom (1):

Mononoke

ActionDan (2):

notscience, Curiosity

beastcharizard (3):

Jingle, Ankamius, Om of the Nom

Kagami (1):

ActionDan

haj (2):

beastcharizard, Time

pirate mollie (2):

Alchemist21, pieguyn

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

beeboy (4):

Kagami, pirate mollie,

UNZAN

, Dreams of an Absolution

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

beeboy

Not Voting:

Saki, SXTLHGaiden, nopointinactingup

The beeboy wagon has a nice look to it, but both mollie and Dreams hopped off.

Curiosity (1):

Jakuzure Nonon

Om of the Nom (2):

Mononoke, Alchemist21

ActionDan (4):

notscience, purple hero, Om of the Nom, pieguyn

beastcharizard (1):

Ankamius

Kagami (1):

ActionDan

haj (3):

beastcharizard, Time, Jingle

Jakuzure Nonon (3):

haj, Dreams of an Absolution, Curiosity

beeboy (2):

Kagami,

UNZAN

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

beeboy

Jingle (1):

pirate mollie

nopointinactingup (1):

SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting:

Saki, nopointinactingup

Dan's wagon here isn't the greatest. That said,

Curiosity (1):

Jakuzure Nonon

Om of the Nom (1):

Alchemist21

ActionDan (2):

notscience, purple hero

beastcharizard (1):

Ankamius

Kagami (7):

ActionDan, Om of the Nom, Mononoke, pieguyn, Curiosity, Jingle, pirate mollie

haj (1):

Time

Jakuzure Nonon (2):

haj, Dreams of an Absolution

beeboy (3):

Kagami, beastcharizard, nopointinactingup

Dreams of an Absolution (1):

beeboy

nopointinactingup (1):

SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting:

Saki

...The Kagami wagon replaces it, and the names there don't look so great. Particularly, Mononoke and mollie.

ActionDan (2):

notscience, purple hero

Kagami (6):

ActionDan, pieguyn, Jingle, pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Curiosity

haj (1):

Time

Jakuzure Nonon (2):

haj, Mononoke

beeboy (3):

Kagami, beastcharizard, nopointinactingup

nopointinactingup (1):

SXTLHGaiden

Alchemist21 (1):

Ankamius

Jingle (2):

Nakuzure Nonon, Om of the Nom

Not Voting:

Saki, Dreams of an Absolution

A beeboy wagon forms...

ActionDan (3):

notscience, purple hero, beastcharizard

Kagami (9):

pieguyn, Jingle, pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Curiosity, Jakuzure Nonon, Mononoke,

UNZAN

Jingle (4):

Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Ankamius, nopointinactingup

beeboy (1):

Kagami

haj (1):

Time

Jakuzure Nonon (1):

haj

nopointinactingup (1)

: SXTLHGaiden

Not Voting:

Saki, ActionDan

...but falls apart, replaced by a MUCH stronger Kagami wagon, and with a Dan wagon (not good looking at all) and a Jingle wagon.

Sooo...my beeboy suspicion has grown a bit from this, as has my feeling that this is scum-Nacho. I'm also looking at purple hero and mollie, and thinking one of beast/Dreams is scum yet not the other. But again, this is a zero-iso, zero-context blind read of the VCs and giving my A. I need to do a lot more work.

[purple hero]

yeah... i'll say

[mastin2]

Did a quick skim of purple hero.

Took me less than a dozen posts to realize they're town.

Definitely not scum-Antihero.

[mastin2]

Soyeah, gonna go leave for a bit, but right now looking at:
Mononoke/Alchemist/beeboy/mollie/{Dreams, beast} as a probable scumteam. (Five seems about right.)

Like I said, though, could change after I actually do my iso work. (In particular, mollie's a high-priority sort, and the read most likely to be wrong.)

[purple hero]

well, whenever i've brought up sakura as scum, pieguy rises to the occasion and insists she's town

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ms Marangal]

From what I understand, though (and from what I caught from Sakura) nacho isn't even really even playing, let alone dictating the flow of his team if they are scum. There's only so much one can do as scum, even with the game moving this fast. I don't think it's as likely as a possibility as you think

[purple hero]

From what I understand, though (and from what I caught from Sakura) nacho isn't even really even playing, let alone dictating the flow of his team if they are scum. There's only so much one can do as scum, even with the game moving this fast. I don't think it's as likely as a possibility as you think

[purple hero]

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

This is coming from someone who replaced the guy who faked a guilty, so you'll understand that I don't believe this.

What does the competence of the previous player have to do with the competence of the current player?

[purple hero]

What kind of screwed-up circumstances would lead notscience and Jingle to be their preferred nightkill?

they're good with the gamestate as it is

[purple hero]

i.e. metal sonic is scum

[purple hero]

mastin, have you read the last 20 or so pages? beeboy's flipflopping on his partners confirmedness is weird, and IDK where the scum motivation for that would be, especially in someone who's not even been here for a year.

[purple hero]

(Okay, admittedly, we're wagoning ActionDan, butstill...if I were scum this game, players like the above--in addition to pie and Curiosity--would TERRIFY me a whole heck of a lot more than notscience or Jingle, on sheer policy alone. What kind of screwed-up circumstances would lead notscience and Jingle to be their preferred nightkill?)

we could have a newblet team who isn't really fully aware of the threats of players, and are willing to take chances with the mason team for a while. In particular, the masons being alive reminds me of empires large normal where Cabd and I were masons with GM and I my actions in game had caused enough apathy to not kill us off right away and GM wasn't killed so that we weren't confirmed right off the bat, either though that would put some credence to your nacho theory, a bit but there, nacho was a little bit more of a presence compared to this game and I don't think he'd attempt to do the same thing twice

[Curiosity]

yay two people i cant read replaced two other people i couldnt read

~Wis

I can read Titus pretty well. At least when we aren't playing F2F because we keep ending up rolling scum together or masons, lol, or I just roll mafia. -.-

Mastin, not so much.

Curiosity, just defer on Mala to me since we are not face to face. She's pretty good at reading me.

Speaking of which...back to meet.

Heh.

synopsis:
pie is masons with someone
mastin-slot faked a guilty and is somehow not dead.

This is everything i remember from the game.

I really wish you hadn't done this, but there's a good chance that you aren't scum at least with Mastin or BoP. If you were you wouldn't have said it like this in thread. It's pretty much confirmed that daychat is in the game because we have daychat sooooo. Very good assumption that scum have daytalk too.

Neighbors you have daytalk too, right?

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

Explain por favor?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!???????????

Speaking of which, while I can understand Time not being dead in spite of ICness, pie and Curiosity, I have to wonder why you aren't dead, either. This isn't me doubting your alignment; I fully believe you're town with that claim. But when did you claim it? Because if done before today, then that raises the question of why no nightkill. And honestly, I went into the game thinking, "So. We have this totally-awesome killer playerlist. Why aren't they getting killed off?"

Admittedly, F-16/penguin did die N2, but while F-16 in particular is a competent town analyzer, why him over much, much larger, bigger-name hydras?

Eh, F16/Peng aren't in this game. Also IDK why we aren't dead, maybe scum are scared of their nightkill being blocked or something.

(Okay, admittedly, we're wagoning ActionDan, butstill...if I were scum this game, players like the above--in addition to pie and Curiosity--would TERRIFY me a whole heck of a lot more than notscience or Jingle, on sheer policy alone. What kind of screwed-up circumstances would lead notscience and Jingle to be their preferred nightkill?)

I'm not really sure. I think I already posted whom I thought that was, but i forgot since I said that because it was awhile ago~

~M

[pieguyn]

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

you should really just go ahead and out it. I find it impossible to believe a town player would quickhammer using a hidden double vote.

also, if you're trying to make me doubt myself, you're way too late

well, whenever i've brought up sakura as scum, pieguy rises to the occasion and insists she's town

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

believe me, just to be sure (bc I don't trust any of my reads and this is the one read I absolutely want to get right) I have reevaluated that read (as well as the mollie read) about 4 or 5 times over the course of the past week or so, since everyone seems to disagree with me. my conclusion has not changed.

this is gonna turn out the same way regardless, but if you really really really ~really~ want, I can fully explain my read and erase all your hopes and dreams. y/n

[Om of the Nom]

ok mastin lets do this lynch instead of monookoek
VOTE: Alch

[pieguyn]

actually fuck it, I'm library/mobile only and I wanna get this done while I actually have PC access

DISCLAIMER1: I am the person in this game with the most experience at reading Sakura. a lot of this is based off meta which, if you are reading this, you will not understand/have known about. if you are going to argue with me over this after specifically requesting it (and this is not meta I would usually out, *ever*, since it gives insight in the arms race in how to play ahead of your meta as scum), I really have no words aka you all can suck it
DISCLAIMER2: I'm not spoilering this. you all can suck it

This took forever.

Sakura's initial catchup wall is actually one of the posts that I kind of look sideways at even after reading it 4 or 5 times. there are a lot of things in there that don't exactly accomplish much, which makes me worried that it's a scum wall that's designed to look like it's accomplishing something when it really isn't - there's a lot of one-liners, comments on past posts that were not as relevant at that time, etc.

however, after a lot of deliberation, I do not think this is scummy. from a meta standpoint, Sakura does not have a fixed method of catching up in games. she will sometimes not read anything, other times read everything but not comment on everything, however in some situations she will do a catchup that looks similar to this. she has also previously posted walls that are basically the exact same as this as town on an alt (Saki Mafia). so I do not believe this post particularly falls outside the behavior space of her town game. (that's not to say I think she's town for this post, just that this is one of the posts I disliked the most, and I would imagine others feel the same as me, but for anyone who didn't like it, it is not a scummy post)

also, do you have any other scumreads?

Oh yeah, you're my other scumread, aside from that nothing else has pinged me too much yet (Something Om said way earlier on is still bugging me tho)

what was the thing that Om said that bugged you? and what are your thoughts on mollie?

Something about his reaction to a reaction or something of the sort, tho I was hurrying in my catchup i dont remember if it was mollie, om or beeboy but something like that.

this is the first thing from her that I liked. the reasoning here is very basic; the same Om post bugged me too, although I didn't point it out in thread. I believe scum Sakura would be less likely to invent something out of nowhere like this while she was in the process of faking reads, and the fact that it was actually a reasonable observation is another point in its favor. now, this obviously isn't much of a tell on its own; however, it is the first of a long line of subtle things that are more likely to come from town that, when I add them all up, make me believe her play this game is coming from a consistently town mindset.

do you think Kagami believes that angle about "who are my partners"? it looked fake to me and I think she would have at the very least at least one better idea than pushing an associative before the actual flip.

I would respond to this, if i had an actual answer, If it looked fake to me she'd be Null-Scum rather than null and if it looked genuine she'd be Null-Town, so short answer is I dont really know.

Spoiler: Long answer

Her angle seems to be genuine but the way she's pushing it seems to be fake, i dont know if im making myself clear with this, it's like she's pushing it way harder than it should, when at best it should be something null on beeboy's part, and I dont like how she didnt like what Dreams said afterwards earlier, it seems like she's trying too hard, but then it reminds me of her previous games with me too so >_> I'm having a hard time with this one.

this is...... really the only thing from her that I dislike, and it's bc it feels like it was forced, that is, she was trying too hard in order to come up with something I'd like. however, considering things from a meta standpoint again, this again does not fall outside the space of behaviors I would expect from her as town. Sakura and I are pretty strongly connected to each other offsite, and moreover, she was about to quit mafia and only stayed bc we agreed to hydra for a game (which I ended up flaking in -.- pieguyn least reliable hydra partner 2015), so I do not find it too unbelievable that she was just reaching for a reason just so that I would have something to comment on, just bc she specifically wanted ~my~ opinion on it.

Feidra, Kagami, Jingle, Nperson.
Currently I have scumreads of varying degrees on the first 3, and i wouldnt have any issue voting the 4th either. Kagami was courtesy of pie for making me see the light.
P-Edit
I'm cool with that.

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

this post is not important by itself. I'm footnoting it for later

About that push, it's even more funny when you think that.
She's calling you scum because your posts are toxic
She modded Hope+1
In Hope+1 there were a lot of toxicity
Mostly made by town.

That's why i made that post right before i went to sleep.

this was a very good observation, I liked it a lot

Oh please, like you're hard to read at all, I correctly townread you on both Ikaruga (despite MS thinking of the contrary) and Dark age of the Law, and there was your scum game on Chain of Command where you flaked and replaced out.
From my PoV there's no mistaking that this activity and motivation comes from town you.

generally, I wouldn't expect scum who feel the need to buddy someone to be so upfront in response when they're called on it. there's a genuinely open "no shit, it's not ~that~ hard to figure out you're town" mindset here that I think is more likely to come from town.

From what i think, he tried to use AtE to get townread then when wis used it to attack him he turned it into a nulltell, a town fei would just continuing to AtE without ever mentioning it being a nulltell.
That's imo.

hunting for motivation = always a plus. and yeah, you might say "scumhunting isn't a town tell", but it takes a lot of skill to ~actually~ make legitimate, motivation-based observations as scum as opposed to more shallow observations, and this was a legitimate observation

Well sorry but i didnt bother reading the signature on that post, I'm kinda mad because mollie has been ignoring the whole game while focusing only on the Nacho side of my hydra like I don't even exist, maybe i should have come solo so Nacho wouldn't have to catch up on a 1500+ post game, and mollie would actually read me instead. But no Nacho's busy he said he didn't feel like catching up today, he only read like 1-2 pages when he posted and that's it, if you're not happy with that then deal with it. I told him about you but by then he didn't reply.

Now i know why Brian Skyes lashed out at me when i wanted to read notty.

this isn't important by itself, but it comes into play again later. this is basically the start of a trend of frustration that spans the entire game, which winds up becoming insanely genuine by the end; this is here to demonstrate that the later posts aren't just scum faking frustration to get townread and that it indeed fits with the rest of her play.

Unvote
Vote: Jingle

Back to this I suppose, I still don't see pie-scum... and now i dont see Kagami-Scum either...
Which means imma have to revise my reads...

Whyyy.
Her latest posts sound like genuine sentiment.

What's the actual probability about Kagami being scum? I liked her latest posts, but everyone keeps saying she's scum...

OK

so, scum Sakura has several options she could have taken in response to the whole me vs. Kagami shitstorm that happened. at this point, she can either continue to push Kagami, back off and push me instead, do something else entirely, or do anything in between. I believe that scum Sakura would be more likely to continue pushing Kagami as opposed to backing off, for several reasons. first off, from a general POV, there is the issue of Kagami being the main wagon, and there not being any good reason to back off her. while it's not unfakeable by any means, I take the backoff here as a point in her favor. additionally, she didn't bother to push me either, which would have been the alternative path of least resistance. the alternative, that she is town and willing to stick with he townread on me while not feeling good about Kagami-scum anymore, makes more sense; there is a distinct lack of scum motivation in the way she handled it.

second, pulling up this post again:

Feidra, Kagami, Jingle, Nperson.
Currently I have scumreads of varying degrees on the first 3, and i wouldnt have any issue voting the 4th either. Kagami was courtesy of pie for making me see the light.
P-Edit
I'm cool with that.

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

it is clear that, if she was scum here, her intent when handling the Kagami push was to buddy me, notably with the "courtesy of pie for making me see the light" (ofc there's also the general idea of her agreeing with me on a crucial read). so, where's the followup on it? that's the point, there was none. I don't exactly think she would attempt to buddy me and then immediately go "nope, you're wrong" a bit later when she could have continued it without any problem at all, especially with no reason greater than Kagami's posts feeling genuine.

So, basically Kagami is calling out pie on a scumtell that never happened in order to get pie lynched, yet that wasn't even a scumtell to begin with?

Unvote
Vote: Kagami

I shouldn't have ever have left this wagon.

usually I would say the conviction when she moved back on was misplaced, given the reasoning behind it was kind of sketchy, but again, from a meta standpoint, Sakura and I are pretty good friends offsite. that turns this into something that is slightly town at best and absolutely null at worst, since it makes sense she would get pissed off at someone trying to lie to get her friend lynched.

Besides, the whole reason i'm hydraing is because i want someone to be there for me in case i get another emotional outbreak, but if i knew this was gonna happen i wouldn't have bothered...

Meh, im just gonna go to sleep before I explode, because everytime mollie posts i feel like i wanna throw my pc through the window

<- can confirm that her explanation here is correct; I can also, at the very least, get where her frustration is coming from. by itself, it wouldn't be that good, but the overall trajectory across the entire game from where it started to how it built up to here makes me feel good about it, I would be kind of impressed if she thought to consistently fake all that as scum.

how the hell is this acceptable?

It is not

Unvote
Vote: Saki

Sorry Saki but im not going to let you coast to endgame like Ikaruga again.

Let's start with the fact that i didn't think your posts in Ikaruga were townposting, specially that attack on Rach when Rach was being obvtown all game. The reasoning im telling you to just do it instead of asking me it's because I currently am leaning town on you, and I think it's better for everyone that you start posting and getting involved, and also because I hate it when ppl spend days not using their vote nor discussing, It's one of the main weapons for players in Mafia and you should know that.

Unvote
Vote: Om

Pretty sure i still need to vote from here.

the dance with Saki was something that I generally liked; I liked the way she went about it for hte most part, e.g. the part where she told Saki to try townposting instead of asking her before outing her opinion of it, as well as how she questioned him about NPIAU. I also liked the way she backed off. from a meta standpoint, scum Sakura generally does not have a problem pushing lynches through in spite of evidence to the contrary, and I think it is likely she would have taken a similar approach with Saki here - the fact that her mindset was instead "pushing him for content to judge" as opposed to "pushing to lynch him", imo, was a good sign. as an example of this, there was an offsite game where she was scum, I derailed a scum lynch (as it was the person I was pushing a lynch on was a different scum), and then due to a mod error the person I was derailing the lynch off of got lynched and flipped scum. she came in D2 pushing a lynch on me really really hard, ~ENTIRELY~ based on BOP for derailing one lynch that would have been on scum - her mindset was not even remotely trying to figure me out. that is the kind of thing I think her mindset as scum here would be more similar to, given there is not exactly much room for Saki to defend himself.

part of the reason I think Saki is town has to do with this - I'm fully aware his thoughts on this issue are basically aligning with mine. additionally, the fact he didn't post anything and then came out of nowhere to step up and show is evidence, is something I think is more likely to come from town who are lurking and don't feel particularly strongly about anything except the thing they're pointing out. but anyway:

I rather change my vote now since idk when ill have time for this, which of the 2 do you think i should vote?

Thanks a lot for replying to this curiosity, it's really appreciated.

Unvote
Vote: Jingle

The Sakura Hana head of the Mononoke hydra is V/LA for an indefinite ammount of time.

this was a completely random potshot that I don't think she has any reason to bother making as scum. however, given her situation offsite (it probably is not worthwhile to elaborate on this, so don't ask), it makes a lot more sense that she would spontaneously get frustrated at smth as trivial as this as town.

Wtf, no, Gaiden is town.
Gaiden scumplay is very different.

speaking of town who don't feel strongly about anything, but have a few things they feel strongly about, this is one of them. I liked the way she came out of nowhere to alert everyone they were on the wrong track with Gaiden - as I said before, it's the mindset of town who can't put much effort into the game, so they have to focus their effort on the things they feel best about. additionally, I think as a result of this I'm starting to learn how to read Gaiden better myself, since I've picked up on a few differences between his town/scum games - not that it really means anything, but it makes me feel kind of better about it

and if it's really necessary, I can confirm that she generally has a good track record at reading Gaiden, so there is not much reason to question this as a fact (ofc, she will fake the process of forming a Gaiden read as scum, but the point is that she is indeed capable at reading Gaiden regardless of what her alignment is, and is thus not lying about it)

2 more things:

1. on a body of work level, she has in general been proactive, forming reads, and pushing opinions in a way that makes me think she is legitimately trying to game solve. she has also been here for most of the major events of the game. while scum can fake that, when it's done to the extent here, I think it's more of a town trait than a scum trait - it takes a lot to consistently keep that kind of effort up as scum 100% of the time.

2. Sakura is not perfect at replicating her town game. when she ~is~ scum, certain posts will generally come across as very forced. the only thing she has done this game that has felt even slightly forced are those 2 posts I brought up right at the start, and there are compelling enough town explanations for both of them that I'm not particularly worried in either case. besides that, there has not been anything, which I am taking as another sign she is town here.

posts I did not comment on = null. (aka, as I said, I am not leaving out anything I feel might have been scum indicative just for the purpose of making this case.) I hope you all at least use this shit well instead of continuing to let yourselves get wrapped up in "omgomg Sakura is scum" every fucking time you all consider reads.

[pieguyn]

now I'm going to go work on my HW because I wasted an hour and a half doing that

and if anyone wants me to go into any more detail about any of this,

I would be more happy to provide it

fuck off

[Curiosity]

Om no pls get back on

I'd say I don't like mastin but I never like mastin, so I'll let the AD flip tell me a story about mastin

~Wis

[mastin2]

mastin, have you read the last 20 or so pages? beeboy's flipflopping on his partners confirmedness is weird, and IDK where the scum motivation for that would be, especially in someone who's not even been here for a year.

Try the last two.

Hey, so I realize that everyone thinks Unzan is a scum ability, but I have mod-confirmed information that it is a town ability.

you should really just go ahead and out it. I find it impossible to believe a town player would quickhammer using a hidden double vote.

Please just trust me? It makes perfect sense if you're sitting where I am knowing the information I know.

For instance, I can tell you that with me now in the game and exerting what little influence that alone has (I'm MASTIN), Dan won't be voted by them. The double vote comes from town. I know this for a fact. Said town player won't go against my will. This, you can also be pretty reasonably sure of.

Also, pie, I've skimmed your defense. I'll give it a well and true, proper read later. But while the post does a wonderful job of showing why you have the townread, it's not doing anything to instill one in me, at least on the skim.

ok mastin lets do this lynch instead of monookoek
VOTE: Alch

Probably will.

[pieguyn]

Please just trust me? It makes perfect sense if you're sitting where I am knowing the information I know.

no

there is a lot of benefit to outing it. UNZAN basically quickhammered. there is no town motivation for that. thus, if UNZAN ~is~ town, there is a very huge misconception everyone seems to agree on about this gamestate; outing it would clear that up and help everyone in the game as a result.

moreover, I think this is the kind of thing you'd use to mist as scum, e.g. by saying they're town and then when you reveal the reason 3 days later it doesn't actually work. I might be wrong, but outing this would sure as hell make me (and probably everyone else) feel a hell of a lot better.

moreover, your slot is in a very bad situation in general

this is not a situation where it is worthwhile to withhold this

Also, pie, I've skimmed your defense. I'll give it a well and true, proper read later. But while the post does a wonderful job of showing why you have the townread, it's not doing anything to instill one in me, at least on the skim.

if you are going to say this, you are basically saying that the reasoning I use for my reads is flawed on a fundamental level. is that what you are saying? bc if it is, I honestly do not give a shit what you think unless you explain why it's wrong