Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Mathdino]

How is there

ANY

town motivation in choosing to withhold your reads for tomorrow until after 2 of your audience members die and are rendered unable to respond to it?

[acryon]

How is there

ANY

town motivation in choosing to withhold your reads for tomorrow until after 2 of your audience members die and are rendered unable to respond to it?

Let's just use an example. I give out a hypothetical current lynch order of Mathdino/BMWS/Newbie, Newbie gives one out of Acryon/BMWS/Mathdino, and BMWS gives one out of Newbie/Acryon/Mathdino.

If you are BMWS-scum, you know that you are going to have better luck getting Newbie to lynch me than you are me to lynch Newbie. If you are Newbie-scum, you know you are going to have better luck getting BMWS to lynch me than me to lynch BMWS. How does this

not

help scum know where to direct their efforts?

[Mathdino]

That's all well and good.

But what changes between now and then other than 2 people dying? Is this just because you don't want to be the guy giving out his reads first? Because everything you just said applies to the beginning of tomorrow, before anyone else talks.

[acryon]

That's all well and good.

But what changes between now and then other than 2 people dying? Is this just because you don't want to be the guy giving out his reads first? Because everything you just said applies to the beginning of tomorrow, before anyone else talks.

Well that's certainly a part of it, and I also think there is a big difference between scum having days to figure out what they are going to do and how they will do it and doing it mostly on the fly. Scum is also going to act differently tomorrow, and you can obviously read their trigger-happiness based on your reads a lot easier tomorrow than you can today.

[Mathdino]

You have no idea how much I want to scumread you for this conversation.

I haven't seen statements this game this inane since Constantine and wgeurts's "HEY MAN ARE YOU A MASON!?!?"

So basically what I'm getting is, you're not going to talk to me about the other players for as long as you're voting me, and you're going to keep voting me as long as you're sheeping bork's argument.

For fuck's sake. Do I need to self-hammer?

[acryon]

You have no idea how much I want to scumread you for this conversation.

I haven't seen statements this game this inane since Constantine and wgeurts's "HEY MAN ARE YOU A MASON!?!?"

So basically what I'm getting is, you're not going to talk to me about the other players for as long as you're voting me, and you're going to keep voting me as long as you're sheeping bork's argument.

For fuck's sake. Do I need to self-hammer?

I'm not sheeping bork indefinitely. I feel comfortable doing that now because his case on you combined with the conversation and his credibility makes his case better than anyone else's. That doesn't mean it's

impossible

for someone else's to be better, but I haven't seen it yet (and doubt I will to be honest).

If I am going to be the one in LyLo between the two of us, I am going to prefer the style distributing/withholding information that makes me most confident in getting scum then if you aren't it. I don't think that that ridiculous. You can think it's wrong, but if I am going to be the one there, I'm going with my gut on how to play this, not your's.

[Mathdino]

His 'credibility' says jackshit about the quality of his case. Someone being confirmed town does not make them God. And if you mean his scumhunting credibility, hell, he pretty much had the exact same reads as me including the fact that the only person he was correct on was Wisdom.

acryon, how bout you sum up your current reasons for voting me? Because last I checked when it came to that conversation, the only thing you still have an issue with is the fact that I brought STD into the equation (Stack The Deck >.>) along with my 'awkwardly emotional' 1956. Everything else has yet to be explained because you basically point to bork's case and say "that guy's got it".

By not talking to me, you understand that you're writing off a potential confirmed townie's contribution to the discussion of your reads and thoughts.

[Mathdino]

You know what

Check my ISO. Throw bork's case out the window. Build your OWN case on me and let's see how that goes. Because your vote on me has 0 credibility.

[reinoe]

MOD STUFF

Pshaw. In this game we lynch enemies.

VOTE COUNT!!!!

borkjerkfin-
Newbie-Mathdino (L-2)
Mathdino-borkjerfkin, acryon, (L-1)
blindmewithscience-
acryon-Newbie (L-2)

not voting- blindmewithscience


With 5 Alive it's 3 to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2014-11-23 07:00:00)


OMG you guys are whale watching!

[Mathdino]

Furthermore, the fact that you're letting your reasons for voting me be someone ELSE'S thoughts basically means there's nothing I can say that can stop this lynch in absence of getting bork to change his mind, and we all know that's not happening.

I'm not sure which of you is worse here. The guy who convinced himself that my play and my being wrong is scummy because he can't see anyone else being scum, or the guy who sheeps the first one.

[acryon]

His 'credibility' says jackshit about the quality of his case. Someone being confirmed town does not make them God. And if you mean his scumhunting credibility, hell, he pretty much had the exact same reads as me including the fact that the only person he was correct on was Wisdom.

acryon, how bout you sum up your current reasons for voting me? Because last I checked when it came to that conversation, the only thing you still have an issue with is the fact that I brought STD into the equation (Stack The Deck >.>) along with my 'awkwardly emotional' 1956. Everything else has yet to be explained because you basically point to bork's case and say "that guy's got it".

By not talking to me, you understand that you're writing off a potential confirmed townie's contribution to the discussion of your reads and thoughts.

Of course it doesn't make him God, but it

definitely

helps his credibility. Do I really have to explain to you why I am inclined to trust someone who is conf-town more than someone who has 1 in 3 chance of being scum?

I am not going to tell you over and over why I am voting for you, because you can look at my ISO to see why I agreed with Bork then and what I felt was bad in addition to what he presented.

I still think it's my best play to not let the entirety of my reads loose.

Ughhhh. I am sitting here with my head in my hands because this conversation with you just doesn't make sense if you are scum. This is probably stupid for more than one reason, but, I'm unvoting. I do still trust bork, but until he can sound off on this whole conversation, I can't leave my vote on you.

UNVOTE:

[acryon]

You post too quickly Mathdino

[Mathdino]

I'd rather get scum today; I don't think that's crazy.

You're not going to 'get scum today' if you do 0 scumhunting.

Edit: whoa

Okay first of all there wasn't that much to show why you agreed with bork then other than "his case is good".

And no, you don't need to explain why he's more trustworthy. That doesn't make his arguments

better

. It just means you have no reason to scumread him for said arguments.

[acryon]

Maybe I just let scum-dino convince me that I had to unvote to prove a point, but at the same time I don't see a reason for you to say all of this stuff as scum. The idea that the only option was to sit and discuss a contingency plan sucked. We have 5 days; it could still be you, but I want to get scum today.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not sure which of you is worse here. The guy who convinced himself that my play and my being wrong is scummy because he can't see anyone else being scum, or the guy who sheeps the first one.

[Mathdino]

I do still trust bork, but until he can sound off on this whole conversation, I can't leave my vote on you.

UNVOTE:

Funny how one conversation starts flipping both our reads, because I really do not know what to make of what you just did.

And yeah, bork would probably say this is all WIFOM anyway and I did all that to get you to unvote because I know he won't.

But you misinterpret my intentions. I didn't want you to unvote me, I wanted you to talk to me about the other players and to actually do some analysis yourself.

[acryon]

But you misinterpret my intentions. I didn't want you to unvote me, I wanted you to talk to me about the other players and to actually do some analysis yourself.

Well certainly, and that's why I said maybe. But my interpretation of your intentions is based completely on what I believe your alignment to be, so it's only a misinterpretation if you're town.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Mathdino

There are just things that don't sit well to me in his ISO and interactions today with people have been weird. I don't care how much he posts or how wordy those posts are.
I have compelling reasons to think others are town. acryon's trajectory on BMWS is a bit weird with his interaction with me - although his confusion as to why I'm just not getting it points to it making sense to him - but his ISO just doesn't read scum. I'm not sure how to articulate it. I do think one of the people pushing Constantine is probably scum because he was just such an easy target.

Oh, and hi bork, just want to preempt your saying that you have valid reasons to scumread me and that your case flowed naturally by pasting the first part of your case.

Yeah, it was created naturally. But your first point was literally "everyone else is town", at which point you started finding reasons to scumread me.

So once again, at least be honest about it, because I fully admit that I'm going after Newbie for PoE.

Edit: You said you're unvoting to prove a point. I don't really care what that point is, is what I'm saying.

[Mathdino]

@bork: Let's do this exercise again. Assume I'm town. What do you make of the convo I had with acryon followed by his unvote? Lemme know if you want me to say what I think first; I ask because I'm digging myself in a hole of WIFOM.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm on mobile so you'll probably need to give me a few hours, but I'm fine indulging in this exercise

[acryon]

@bork: Let's do this exercise again. Assume I'm town. What do you make of the convo I had with acryon followed by his unvote? Lemme know if you want me to say what I think first; I ask because I'm digging myself in a hole of WIFOM.

This is the question I am most interested in, as that conversation is what pushed me to unvote.

[Mathdino]

Actually, to hell with it, the entirety of acryon's D3/4 trajectory has been uber-townish and the weirdness of this convo isn't enough to outweigh that. Want to note that his BMWS case came first, and the fact that (insert post URL here because I'm too lazy to find it) he originally decided to treat Newbie as a better target than me is very telling. Willingness to think out of the box yet keeping the lynchpool the same size is not indicative of scum.

Newbie's case on BMWS is, as I said, way worse than acryon's and way more confbiasy, came after his, and came after her

already saying D2 that she'd lynch acryon after Constantine

. Post 1760. Then in 1823 she actually switched from Const to acryon. Her case on BMWS came with no explanation of how her lynch order suddenly changed as well.

It's Newbie.

[reinoe]

BLINDMEWITHSCIENCE HAS BEEN PRODDED. It was a sour apple prod mixed with pop-rocks for extra fizzy goodness.

[Newbie]

How about this: bmws and acryon add their votes for me, I get lynched, come up town, and things get narrowed down. I'd rather mathdino end up in lylo over me since mostly everyone is reading him as town. If we don't do something, md is either going to have to self lynch or bmws is going to hammer him, and I'd prefer that to not happen.

[Mathdino]

You are literally the only person here that's townreading me.