Mini 1610 - House M.D. Mafia! (Day 5!)

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VOTE: Anatole

Do you plan on fluffposting all game?

The symptoms so far sound like a heart problem to me, so diagnosticians related to the cardiac system might be useful right now.

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Do you even watch ER?

No.

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I thought this game was based on House. Which should mean Beck needs to reach a state of near death before any clear diagnosis can be made. I don't even know if he's worth saving yet.

Isn't the moral of that show that none of the patients are worth saving?

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But sociopaths are never wrong. Maybe the moral of the show is that it's better to die a terrible death than seek medical treatment?

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I can agree with that.

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Brian is a sociopath. I demand that he tell us what's wrong with Beck.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We should do a differential diagnosis.

Beck's a manwhore. So he could have an STD. However, I'm not a specialist in that field and don't know of any STD's that would cause those three symptoms.

Checking the combination of symptoms online, on a site that I don't know is really all that credible, we have Hypomagnesemia, plant poisoning (from this plant), and Reye's Syndrome. However, while all three of those conditions come up from the search, none of the individual pages list fatigue as a symptom (unless listlessness is similar, although Reye's Syndrome lists lethargy). My favorite of the three is Reye's Syndrome just because it looks the most fatal. Checking the same symptoms on WebMD, another site that I don't know is really all that credible, I get almost 100 results back, and each result doesn't exactly list all three symptoms I list.

But when I look at Reye's Syndrome elsewhere, I have trouble finding irregular heartbeat as anything other than a complication of the disease. It seems to be an autoimmune condition most common in younger children and teenagers (adults can get it but it's rare) that are recovering from an illness like a cold or flu. May or may not be linked with aspirin use.

Hypomagnesemia is a condition where there is a low level of magnesium in the blood. Diagnosis and other information that may or may not be credible found here.

"In some instances, people have confused digitalis with the relatively harmless comfrey (Symphytum ) plant, which is often brewed into a tea, with fatal consequences. Other fatal accidents involve children drinking the water in a vase containing digitalis plants.[14] Drying does not reduce the toxicity of the plant. The plant is toxic to animals, including all classes of livestock and poultry, as well as felines and canines."

~Regarding the foxglove plant in the Wikipedia article I linked earlier.

I don't know much about the different cancers or if irregular heartbeats are a common symptom of them (and that Wilson guy always seems to suggest it at some point in the show). I haven't found anything that leads me to believe it does, but maybe there are more specific symptoms that might lead us to believe Beck does have a form of it.

Town. Holy shit Town.

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I'm completely fine with claiming doctor-y powers.

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For googling symptoms? You know scum gets sick too right?

this, plus that is like the easiest thing scum could do to appear town.

The act of googling symptoms is not towny, sure. This time it sure as hell was.

We have something to talk about that is game relevant, thus RVS is fairly useless here. BS instead of continuing the inane conversation we were having put forth the effort to analyze the disease and make himself the center of attention, pushing us into a conversation that can actually be used to scumhunt. His post shows that he put thought and time into trying to work the disease out, which is a trait I attribute to town more so than scum.

Further, I think it is in town's best interest to attempt to heal everyone at this point in the game. I'd like some more information before we start harnessing the diseases to be a vig shot.

On the claiming abilities, I don't really have a problem with it. Scum being able to kill to disrupt healing discounts that scum can get sick too and also assumes that scum have some way of knowing what the disease is before town does.

WebMD here are the top 10 things when I put my symptoms in the symptom checker listed from most matches to least matches.

Heart rhythm disorder

Medication reaction or side-effect

Sleep apnea

Hyperthyroidism

Atrial fibrillation

Viral syndrome
Acute sinusitis

Acute stress reaction

Alcohol withdrawal (delirium tremens)
Aortic regurgitation
Cocaine abuse

basically I need more symptoms lol

Struck those out because of heart screening and lack of lethality.

If someone is a toxicologist, they should probably check for drug use.

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Dammit. Missed sinusitis and aortic regurgitation.

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On the mafia side of things, I'd like Anatole to explain his naked vote on K. TYIA.

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Why is jingle scum?

Cause hes trying to hard to get town points, and calling DDD, town for that post was buddying

First, I don't have a read on DDD yet. I'm townreading you and BS and scumreading anatole. Second, I'm much better at buddying than that.

I'm completely fine with claiming doctor-y powers.

not to mention this post.

Only scum would want people to claim their doctor powers on day 1

Untrue. Knowing what we can do and what redundancy we have could help us to diagnose more easily. Further, I like Cadb's point that we can then force people to use their abilities. If scum has a diagnostic ability, I expect they will just not use it and hope town dies to disease as well.

VOTE: Anatole

Do you plan on fluffposting all game?

The symptoms so far sound like a heart problem to me, so diagnosticians related to the cardiac system might be useful right now.

I don't like this post either. what a tryhard

And I don't like that you've got 17 posts and only two of them seem at all related to trying to find scum.

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Does it bother no one else that Anatole is being ABR's puppet? Also, it's possible that cabd was the one to cure beck, given that he said sepsis ITT less than a page before the VC where beck was cured. If so, that means that mentioning the disease might be enough, and we should refrain from mentioning diseases until we've decided on whether or not we're healing the patient. Assuming we want to use the disease as a possible second lynch. If anyone can confirm/deny that that is the case, please let us know.

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Lynx plox?

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I'm gonna be doing some housework today, but I plan to meta dive ABR and Anatole to see if the rest of their games pan out to expectations while I work. Before that though,

Does it bother no one else that Anatole is being ABR's puppet? Also, it's possible that cabd was the one to cure beck, given that he said sepsis ITT less than a page before the VC where beck was cured. If so, that means that mentioning the disease might be enough, and we should refrain from mentioning diseases until we've decided on whether or not we're healing the patient. Assuming we want to use the disease as a possible second lynch. If anyone can confirm/deny that that is the case, please let us know.

Read the OP, I don't believe mentioning it cures the disease. Mod says people have skills to cure diseases

I did read the OP. It mentions town "will have tools to combat the diseases." It also mentions that if certain players can make a concrete diagnosis, then the players will be cured. It doesn't mention whether the players are told about this ability, or whether it is by PM or in thread. The only thing I want done here is to have anyone who can diagnose a disease, especially in the early stages like with yours, NOT do so until after a vote-count has been posted if the disease they diagnose has been mentioned ITT.

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Hmm. So meta dive leaves me with a little useful information to think about. Honestly, the sheeping in FTL was incredibly scummy. ABR's trust of Anatole in that game leaves me more confident that he (ABR) is town here. I will need to do some scum meta on ABR to check that, but I'm thinking town now, especially considering the posts here and in FTL are fairly similar.

As far as I can tell, You only have the two mutual completed games. I was fairly thorough, so correct me if I'm wrong. That means the sheeping thing is pretty null on the Anatole side of things. Anatole's entrance here does feel the same as his entrance in FTL, though, and he seems less whiny than he did in lucky's micro, so I'll come back to him.

Off to read the mantis/kthx/beck interaction then mull a bit.

Also, on a completely non-game-related note: ABR, it absolutely cracks me up that I found out about the period thread by looking at your topics.

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I just realized that what I was trying to accomplish with Anatole is flawed. Somehow, I mixed up him and Siveure in our last game and was under the impression that he would make his alignment blatantly obvious after being run up. Sorry about that, man. On that note,

UNVOTE:

I'm at work all night and then I have both work and what looks like it'll be a full day of doctor's appointments tomorrow, so I'm not going be posting much in the next couple of days. I do plan on taking another look at this from a fresh POV though.

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ok help me out here

1. who is cabd playing as
2. who is Krystal bad playing as?
3. Who is Baboon Pride
4. why does Bert, Wolfy, and Rogue have less posts than the mod?

I want Wolfy to come back and tell me if he has figured out if anatole is scum or lazy

cabd is part of maracas.
KB is mantis/nikanor hydra (mantis is altslipping)
Baboon Pride is mara who is part of maracas. (I think its a hydra, but I don't know the partner)
Bert at least is a recent replacement. I'm more concerned about Rogue than Wolfy atm, given Rogue is a hydra. But then again, notty always lurks in games I play in.

I should have time to start getting some serious reads out this afternoon, but this weekend is gonna be completely fucked for activity on my part.

V/LA: Friday 9/19 til Sunday 9/21

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DDD appears to be scum.

Maybe... There aren't enough people actively posting to know for sure. I will say I've used the same line of posting as scum. Basically, come up with a logical reason to not post in depth thoughts...which is what I see DDD doing.

VOTE: Kthxbye

His early reactions reminded me a lot of UDesign, where my read on him was terrible, so I was trying not to jump to conclusions but his ISO pings me like crazy.

Particularly, the whole: "hypocrisy is a scumtell" combined with the quoted post raises all sorts of alarms on a reread.

"I've used the tactic of refraining from posting opinions on play as scum, but I can't judge DDD because other players haven't posted so I'm going to refrain from posting." He's using a scumtell that he himself is saying is part of his scum meta about someone else and doing exactly the same thing, while calling yet another person scum for hypocrisy in scumhunting.

It's like... Scumception.

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true I haven't posted a lot - been busy.
Besides, my vote is already in the right place.

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I'm back, and incredibly tired. Prerelease weekends blow. I'll get to this tomorrow.

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I could really lynch Jingle and Wolfy.

Jingle's hiding behind the meta torch. The research about meta that turned up nothing conclusive (which is odd considering how much effort he apperas to put into that - and time elapsed), then more meta or research about the game's mechanics.

His early reactions reminded me a lot of UDesign, where my read on him was terrible, so I was trying not to jump to conclusions but his ISO pings me like crazy.

Particularly, the whole: "hypocrisy is a scumtell" combined with the quoted post raises all sorts of alarms on a reread.

"I've used the tactic of refraining from posting opinions on play as scum, but I can't judge DDD because other players haven't posted so I'm going to refrain from posting." He's using a scumtell that he himself is saying is part of his scum meta about someone else and doing exactly the same thing, while calling yet another person scum for hypocrisy in scumhunting.

It's like... Scumception.

I'd like to hear your read about Kthxbye since this post.

Still scum. I'll put up a case tonight, but it's funny to me that you apparently expected a lot of contributions while I was V/LA. Regardless I'm read up now and I've got some free time today.

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Spoiler: CASE!

Are you all seriously trying to push a quicklynch based on....uh....wait....what is this based on?

Do you all not have a real life that includes family and work?

That's the only explaination I can think of.

Read my post about trying to figure out what was ailing Beck. Should be all you need to know in there. Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but nowhere in my PM does it explain exactly HOW to go about submitting a diagnosis. I'm also curious to know if the proper diagnosis was posted in thread if it would have been counted and Beck would have been cured.

After that, read my p120 and tell me how shaddowez flips that fast in 6 pages reads as town to you.

More votes shaddowez.

@shaddowez: How do you go from being uncomfortable of my RVS wagon building quickly to your p110? It looks like your reason for voting me is lurker hunting. Are there any other 'lurkers' that peek your interest? If no, why not?

wow. please lynch me today so I wont have to deal with this trainwreck of a town any longer than necessary...

A metric ton of ATE, and the first ping. I could forgive these, but they definitely don't give me any town feels.

No worries, I am. I am also wanting to think you are town. So far I think you are. We should be super friends.

A defense with 0 reasoning, and a some hardcore buddying. If k was trying to defend mantis from attacks as town, I would expect some kind of logic as to why he's town. Not this weakass "We should be friends" defense. This type of defense is exactly what I expect from scum WKing.

That's pretty lazy scumhunting.

You don't think it's more likely that you're just playing scummy?

Lazy?....As opposed to your vote hopping?

So please tell me why is being contradictory a scumtell to you if you keep catching townies doing it?

Because is scummy? (<---Rhetorical)

Neither of these address the points brought up. They're a slight redirection away. Kthx is not giving reasons why his behavior isn't scummy, he's deflecting the questions and answering nothing.

The hyper activity of ABR, Mantis, and Beck put them in the town pile.

shaddowez is still my number 1 scum read.

I'm wary of DDD and Brian because I expected more from them to this point from my past experience with them.

I have a feeling scum are sitting back right now and watching right now due to the hyper activity.

@my town reads: If I'm town, who is the most likely to be scum. Do you agree with my thoughts above (again, if you can picture me as town)? If not, which of you hyper active players is the scum of the group of hyper active players?

This is a ridiculous post. Effort is not indicative of alignment, to borrow a phrase from GM. This shallow scumhunting is not only antitown, but also incredibly useful for scum. He's put himself in a position where he looks like he's hunting scum while not actually doing any real scumhunting. He's also leaving a huge escape hatch for his position by not putting any hard evidence for his reads out.

Kthx, wolf, shadow, or mantis should be the lynch candidates today.

And why is that (for each if you would)?

You've voted me yet never really asked me any questions (ie, tried to figure out if I'm scum), or really explained any reason as to why you think I should be a lynch candidate.

You've said/quoted/addressed both wolfy and shadow even LESS than you've mentioned/voted me.

Mantis is the only person on your "lynch candidates" list that you've shown any real suspicion of.

p404 is lacking any town motivation.

VOTE: Anatole

I still don't like DDD, but that above quoted post pinged my scumdar way too much to remain there, especially since if one of the 2 is scum, the other probably isn't. If both are scum, that's some damn fine distancing.

This is some great logic after the 3 days of only posting variations on "DDD needs to die!" There was no progression. He's looking for lynches, not looking for scum.

TL;DR: kthx is scum.

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I could really lynch Jingle and Wolfy.

Jingle's hiding behind the meta torch. The research about meta that turned up nothing conclusive (which is odd considering how much effort he appears to put into that - and time elapsed), then more meta or research about the game's mechanics.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'hiding behind the meta torch.' It's true that I've backed off of people because I find their meta shows them doing the things I find suspicious as town. I think you're also vastly overestimating how much time and effort I'm putting into my meta dives. I get distracted a lot.

quickly compiled this just then, totally based on all of the feels yeah. u got Q's then ask them

TOWN

13. shaddowez
12. Kthxbye - experience (maybe)
1. Beck

slightly town:

9. Anatole Kuragin - experience maybe and all of the feels. im extrapolating more than i should from his indignation though. if wiping my brain's experiences out, clean slate would just be null.
10. Mantisdreamz
5. Debonair Danny DiPietro - i changed my mind but it bugs me when people often seem more town when near-death regardless of alignment.

??????

7. Albert B. Rampage - have no idea
2. MC Maraca (Cabd and Ms Marangal) - have no idea


8. Brian Skies - is just and busy and so is

______

scummy

4. Wolfy - did you see his incoming defense today?
11. Jingle
6. Rogue (notscience and Malakittens) - can do so much better, just reads everyone as null or just town (big problem) - doesn't see DDD as scum but doesn't commit to anything else. who ya gonna lynch then?

Don't even pretend the Rogue slot isn't a policy lynch. They're being unrepentant lurkers, and that's frustrating, but notty does that in every game I've ever played with him. I can agree with you on Wolfy though.

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I love when scum buss their buddies

Me too!

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@Jingle Jingle: What players do you see as town? As scum?

Re: Rogue: I guess we have really different past experiences with Mala/notscience. I put them in the scummy category and I agree they need to post more. However, I don't understand why you brought up "policy." You agree about Wolfy when Wolfy hasn't posted noticeably more than Mala. Lastly, speaking of "unrepentant," Rogue did in fact express remorse in their last few posts.

Rogue expressed remorse, not repented. Repenting requires some form of good behavior to show that the remorse is genuine. Also, I'm attempting to shame notty into playing the game, considering he's one of the reasons I /ined in the first place.

Wolfy hasn't posted considerably more or considerably less than Rogue, but he

has

posted considerably worse. Rogue is a PL because there's nothing there to read. I might get behind that if the two of them don't shape up, but it IS a policy lynch.

My town reads so far are Brian, Beck, and ABR. I've got a scumread on Kthx and Wolfy. Most everyone else is varying shades of null. If you want a readslist, my notes aren't organized enough yet.

You're part of the Perpetual Nonsense hydra right? Also, holy shit, the deadline snuck up on me.

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Also, would someone respond to my case? I get all grumpy when people ignore me.

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[0] Beck:
[0] MC Maraca:
[0] Bert:abr, anatole, kthx
[0] Wolfy:
[5] Debonair Danny DiPietro:
[0] Rogue:
[0] Albert B. Rampage:
[0] Brian Skies:
[0] Anatole Kuragin:shaddowez, mantis
[2] MantisDreamz: shaddowez, maraca
[0] Jingle:Bert, beck
[3] Kthxbye: DDD, Jingle
[0] Shaddowez:

Votes as they stand AFAIK.

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Crap. Shadowez is only voting for anatole. I missed deleting the previous one. Also

4. why does Bert, Wolfy, and Rogue have less posts than the mod?

I want Wolfy to come back and tell me if he has figured out if anatole is scum or lazy

true I haven't posted a lot - been busy.
Besides, my vote is already in the right place.

anatole is

probably

only lazy but could be scum pretending to be lazy.
How he interacts with the DDD wagon (or whatever wagon goes to lynch) will help me more - I don't see him as today's lynch.

This is what I meant by worse posts. This is not even attempting to contribute to discussion, although he's been getting better recently.

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Deadline is Wednesday, September 24th, 2014, at 10:00AM PST

We have just under hours from this/my post.

I have no qualms about voting Mantis if it comes down to her and Anatole. The "why" will come if I can muster up a post this afternoon. for now tl;dr I don't understand her route in the last few posts - and the way she presented the mc maraca vote.

You're part of the Perpetual Nonsense hydra right? Also, holy shit, the deadline snuck up on me.

Yeah. But we played with you in a large game, and both of us never read the actual game because it was too...large. Lesson learned.

Also, would someone respond to my case?

It makes sense but doesn't change my opinion - I thought it was going to be based on how your past game with kthxbye-town was different.

I was more thinking about AP's hydra game. And I think we've played before that too.

Also I usually don't build cases off of meta; I use meta to stop myself from death-tunneling.

I'm not a fan of the Bert wagon. He appears to be actually looking for scum, something I don't think I've seen him do as scum. (mild townread)

Anyone who isn't voting kthx, please tell me why.

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I would vote Bert for deadline. You have one more person than the wagon I support though, and I'd really rather lynch scum today. I'll be on before I go to work tomorrow to vote if necessary, but I don't see what you're seeing.

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So explain the Bert case to me or explain why kthx isn't an option other than "too scummy to be scum."

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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=51105

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Bert-hydra replaced enomis. I lynched him for being a lurksack.

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I don't think I've played with non hydra Bert. Lemme check.

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This is my second nonmarathon game with nonhydra bert. The first was this http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58854. He was town. I don't think that game would work even if he wasn't.

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I'm not making a meta case on Bert but you are making a meta defense that he "wouldn't look like he's scumhunting like this if he were scum", and I fundamentally disagree with you there because I think that's exactly what he would do. "He appears to be looking for scum". That's one of the red flags.

I'm going to ask you to place a vote on Bert at this precarious junction where your own presence and voice in this game can be snuffed out with a well-coordinated scum team.

You don't appear to be making a case at all. You've said you've seen many scumtells and red flags, what are they?

[Jingle]

Fuck it.

VOTE: Bert

I still want someone to explain kthx = town to me.

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VOTE: kthx

So, I'm feeling the kthx wagon. His and wolfy's interaction doesn't seem like scum/scum so I think I'd prefer to save him. I want it clear that no one should name any diseases before we come to a consensus though.

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Hey, Maraca. Why is kthx town? Thanks. (This is a question for everyone who's townreading kthx, btw.)

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ABR doesn't look like the scum on the DDD wagon to me. Kthx is scum hopping onto that wagon. Wolfy might be.

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I see ABR's point. I don't think it is as strong as he says it is. I still think kthx is scum and want him lynched.

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You implied that if he were a vig the Bert kill would be the same, and thus that he wasn't responsible for it. It's a weak argument, but I can at least follow the logic.

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UNVOTE:

I'm gonna be insanely busy this weekend.

V/LA until Monday

I will try to give this game some time, but I make no promises.

[Jingle]

I'll catch up tomorrow. Scout's Honor.

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So, according to this list, taking out the two people who are already dead, there are still five scum, and that's only out of people you've actually talked about. Yep, leaving my vote on you.

Shhh. Shadow, don't give away our five-scum team. We just need to quicklynch today and we're golden.

Damnit shaddowez....

That actually looks pretty damning. Nice post.

VOTE: Anatole

I really don't like this post. If anyone can verify or disprove:

I actually tried to diagnoise/treat Beck with my role and my response was (without quoting MOD PMs) that I didn't diagnose the disease but that I saw the Thyroid starting to have issues.

Please do so now. Based on the heart condition test, I would say that his PR is probably verifiable. I need to look again to see if AK/Kthx might be a scumteam.

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I've given it some thought, and I'd bet good money that at least some of the diagnosticians are scum. They are confirmable in the day phase, and I doubt Ven would have made all of them town. It's certainly not a 'PR' in the traditional sense.

VOTE: kthx

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I have to say, this is fundamentally bad and I'd be ashamed of Venmar if he did this. That puts one (or more?) healing powers solely in the hands of scum who know who is and isn't town. That means, if a town gets a disease and they have the matching healing power to cure that disease, they simply do nothing and get 2 kills for it. No, I'd say that's imbalanced as hell, especially when town with healing powers can choose to not heal due to thinking the diseased person is scum and be wrong, thus screwing ourselves.

As opposed to a game where the diagnostititians (god I fucked that word up. I think) can all claim and confirm themselves? The heart test thingy showed up in the VC. There's no reason not to assume other tests wouldn't do the same. That means the roles are selfconfirmable. You know what doesn't show up in a balanced setup at all? Multiple IC's. Also, why did your Endocrinology test never show up in the VC?

Scum having doctors is literally the only thing that makes sense. Kthx is either scum with power or scum fakeclaiming power.

I'm too drunk for this.

[Jingle]

Yeah, it's not Jingle.

VOTE: Kthx

Why the fuck are you two talking like DDD already flipped town?....

[Jingle]

Yeah, it's not Jingle.

VOTE: Kthx

Why the fuck are you two talking like DDD already flipped town?....

Legit question: Are you actually reading this game and if you are....are you high?

Yes I am reading the game. And no I'm not high. You are scum though, so nice attempt to dismiss my thoughts.

I don't see Wolfy scum as likely. I won't elaborate on that.

[Jingle]

Wolfy and Jingle, if one of you is a protective role, protect the other due to the heavy hints of wink wink role power soft claims

WTF are you talking about? I've softclaimed nothing.

[Jingle]

Ahh. Not a PR thing. Still can't talk about it. Suffice to say, he's playing to town meta.

[Jingle]

If kthx was scum, it would have to almost assuredly be with Anatole due to the connection between them. I'd consider kthx if Wolfy flipped town and Anatole flipped scum.

It almost certainly isn't both kthx and AK off of VCA. Specifically:

D2
[1] Beck: Rogue
[3] Debonair Danny DiPietro: kthxbye, Wolfy, Beck
[3] Anatole Kuragin: Shaddowez, Albert B. Rampage, MC Maraca
[3] Kthxbye: DDD, Anatole Kuragin, Ika

There is roughly a 0% chance in my mind that that is all three scum.

If kthx was scum, it would have to almost assuredly be with Anatole due to the connection between them. I'd consider kthx if Wolfy flipped town and Anatole flipped scum.

Please explain this. I haven't seen anything to tie the two that firmly together.

Kthx is scum by play. I'll elaborate when I'm not at work and have more time. Possibly tonight, probably tomorrow afternoon.

[Jingle]

So let's start with why I don't think the DDD tunnel from Kthx precludes Kthx/DDD scumteam.

BZZZZZZ, wrong answer.

VOTE: DDD

A weak vote as soon as he starts getting pressured. This is scum hopping onto a wagon. He's bussing without actually adding to the case against DDD.

Kthx, wolf, shadow, or mantis should be the lynch candidates today.

And why is that (for each if you would)?

You've voted me yet never really asked me any questions (ie, tried to figure out if I'm scum), or really explained any reason as to why you think I should be a lynch candidate.

You've said/quoted/addressed both wolfy and shadow even LESS than you've mentioned/voted me.

Mantis is the only person on your "lynch candidates" list that you've shown any real suspicion of.

p404 is lacking any town motivation.

VOTE: Anatole

I still don't like DDD, but that above quoted post pinged my scumdar way too much to remain there, especially since if one of the 2 is scum, the other probably isn't. If both are scum, that's some damn fine distancing.

Here he jumps off of the wagon to vote AK as soon as he can, putting much more effort into proving "AK is scum" than he ever did with "DDD is scum."

Holy shit, I'm on the same page as shaddowez...? What's this world coming to?

Anyway, yeah, way to say the exact sentiment I said then vote the logical counter wagon to yours.

VOTE: DDD

L-1

It looks like DDD is getting lynched? Well, here Kthx jumps right back onto the wagon, again without pushing a why.

Go ahead and ISO me and /find DDD. I haven't liked him all game.

Add in the fact he hammered the claimed PR. Add in the fact that he's on my wagon and suddenly super quiet while I'm at L-1. Add in the fact that I (being town) am the super fast counter wagon to his. Add in the fact that he has been wagoned BOTH days and has suddenly dropped off the lynch pool to wagon town both days (D1 looks especially bad as BOTH BERT AND MANTIS, which were the 2 counter wagons to his, both flipped town). Add in the fact that he refused to claim....twice now.

It's not hard to see why I think he's scum and thus voted him. Actually, going back through it all again...

VOTE: DDD

It's getting really hard to respect Venmar's soft warning. Sad thing is, after going back to try and figure out if you're scum or not, even though your overall actions say scum, your posting actually reads town. So get off it and try to not tunnel for a few posts and actually see my POV.

VCA:
MantisDreamz: MC Maraca, Bert, Brian Skies, shaddowez, Rogue,

Wolfy

,

DDD

Kthxbye: Jingle,

DDD

, Anatole Kuragin, Beck,

Wolfy

VCA also points to me being right.

So, if you all lynch me today, you now have all the work done for you to lynch scum back to back. You're all welcome.

@MOD:

I'll catch up in a bit. Sorry for my absence.

^BS's last post. What's the status of this slot?

Here's where he sets up the False Dichotomy I don't believe. He's forcing the narrative of Kthx town OR DDD town. I have seen no proof of the former.

Nope, I am what I claimed.

Forgot about the vt claim.

Yeah, let's lynch the PR over VT...genius.

I'm not avoiding anything.

How bout this, I'll even self vote tomorrow if DDD flips town.

Hey look! He knows DDD isn't going to flip town. Kinda like he knew that during twilight! I wonder who knew that? Oh, right. Scum.

[Jingle]

Not sure yet. I'll get back to you.

[Jingle]

Hey Jingle, I'm gonna re-post this since you completely ignored it and skirted around it with that pick and choose quote "case" you made in p1103.

@Anatole and

Jingle

:

Please explain how you all think I'm scum after D1 and D2 results? Specifically, explain what my motivation is to get DDD lynched yesterday when it looked like we'd be lynching Anatole or myself instead before that. Anatole, I'm very interested in your response seeing as you say you're town and you were on the chopping block yesterday. Why would scum me push for DDD's lynch over your lynch if you're town?

p.edit:

How can you say I'm scum by play when you obviously care about VCA and yesterdays VCA says I'm assuredly not scum? Why do I push DDD over Anatole yesterday? Unless all 3 of us are scum in your mind (which you stated you don't see how that's possible), me being scum and pushing a bus on DDD over a town-Anatole wagon makes absolutely no sense if I'm scum. Answer this on top of the above questioning.

The bottom is also addressed to you since...you know...my p.edit came directly after your post.

Oh hey, look I come back to the thread to see some more Kthx bullshit. Let's disassemble, shall we?

Why would scum bus? Let's just leave this here, shall we? Now why did Kthx bus here? Because "Go ahead and ISO me and /find DDD. I haven't liked him all game." His own words. What would it look like if he didn't jump onto the DDD wagon? The same please don't kill me attitude that he's had all game.

Now, let's pick apart your "case" to show how bad it is.
-my p322 is in fact not a weak vote. If you read the context, you'll see his complete refusal to answer my question with some (and now we know why...he was scum) bs reason about handing me a cheat sheet of what he's looking for....

Oh look! He's inserting reasoning after the flip! And he was sheeping ABR on the push in the first place! That means he must not be scum!

-my p406. Oh, wow, town NEVER changes votes with the new shiney. Oh, and look, that was about the time the DDD wagon dissipated. He went from L-1, to L-2 with ABR's unvote in p400, to L-3 with Bert's unvote in p402. If I'm going to go for a 'bus my buddy' tactic you say you think I'm doing, wouldn't it be better for me to continue to bus my buddy?

"Nuh-uh! Everybody was jumping off there!" And how is that town exactly? You wanted to be seen as pushing his lynch, but as soon as it looked reasonable you jump to push elsewhere.

-read my p658, read shadowwez p657. This 'point' in the case is just a flat out lie. Nice try.
-the PROOF is in the above questions you failed to acknowledge or answer.

No it isn't. Your previous post was literally "Wagon me up, Bitches." The next post is three days later. But nice try. It's almost like you're scum.

-my p839 is a statement of confidence in my read not a slip of knowledge of scum. Also, as ABR pointed out, ika did the same thing. Is ika know my scum buddy because he 'knew DDD would flip scum'?

Your case is, as pointed out, completely full of holes. Anyone could find a million different examples of townies saying and doing the same things. Wanna know why? Cuz that's town play.

IKA's response didn't have the same feel of insider knowledge. He felt genuine. You did not.

It's also really cool how you say that anyone could find millions of examples and don't actually find any examples. It's like, y'know, they don't exist.

Let's look at some facts. We have a scum flip which was goon. We have absolutely zero proof that scum have a healing PR. We have the idea that scum COULD be healers too, which is completely stupid and OP from a pure game mechanics view. And we have Jingle completely unable to answer my questions b/c he can't explain his reasons without looking scummy or completely backtracking. He's going to push my lynch the rest of the day and if town follow it, well, I have no hope for a town win.

I also feel like I need to spell out why I highly doubt scum have a healing PR.
Let's take when Beck (confirmed town) got sick. Let's say due to the randomness of chance, scum does have a healing power and that is the power that cures Beck. Scum, knowing Beck is town, simply don't cure him. Beck dies and scum just got a free kill for doing nothing. I do NOT see the MOD allowing this possibility.

Now, let's say I'm right and town have the healing powers and someone with the right power to cure Beck thinks he's scum. That townie refuses to use his power and Beck dies. THIS is how I see the game setup and strategy being employed in this game.

In one scenario, scum get a kill do to happenstance and it has nothing to do with reads/skill of playing the game. In the second scenario, town uses reads/skill of playing the game to either save a fellow townie (who they don't KNOW is town) or condemn them.

No. This is stupid. THE DIAGNOSIS PR'S ARE CONFIRMABLE. AT LEAST THREE OF THEM EXIST, ASSUMING YOU ACTUALLY ARE AN ENDOCRINOLOGIST. HAVING THREE PLAYERS WHO ARE VIRTUALLY INNOCENT CHILDREN THAT CHOOSE WHEN TO BE CONFIRMED IS A TERRIBLE SETUP DESIGN. WE'VE SEEN MC (Who you're pushing as scum btw) CURE TWO PLAYERS, ONE WITHOUT ANY DIAGNOSTIC HELP, SO ITS OBVIOUS THAT THE DIAGNOSTICIANS AREN'T NECESSARY TO STOP THE DISEASE.

Why is this claim from Kthx scummy? He's claimed diagnostician and then spent the entire game since going: "Diagnosticians are conftown." He's grabbing towncred anywhere he can, and it's scummy as all hell.

Next topic, I just found this while telling scum-Jingle just how bad his case is.

DDD's last post looks townie. Kthx, wolf, shadow, or mantis should be the lynch candidates today.

Town, town-read, town-read, conf town. Those were Anatole's lynch candidates. Even a blind squire finds a nut and I'm not seeing him find a single one in that post. I could be wrong on wolf or shadow, but I'm feeling pretty confident in those reads.

If the remaining town can't see the logic in my post and specifically, can't see how I turned a possible not lynching of DDD to a lynch of confirmed scum DDD around yesterday as town play, well, there's no more I can do. If Jingle isn't scum, then I think it almost has to be Anatole. Willing to lynch either one today.

Burden of Proficiency, much?

you really think both scum in a single game will push the same line of thought?

Sorry, missed it at the time. Yes, I obviously do think this. I will admit however, since more people than there are likely scum are pushing the same line of thought about scum-healers, well, it's kinda null. But, I still think multiple scum would push it in this case if the reward (after multiple town healers flip they can fake claim a healer) outweighs the risk.

What the fresh fuck? How could scum fake-claim a confirm-able role? Seriously, how the hell is this a concern of yours if you're actually a diagnostician?

Know what Anatole, you're not off the hook as I still want you to answer my questions, but I'm pretty confident in Jingle being scum right now. Wanna know why? I'll tell you.

Jingle has, like you, not answered my questions. The difference is, you're at least posting while I'm directly confrunting you. Know who isn't? Jingle. But wait, it gets better. His last post in THIS game was on the 15th. Take a gander at when his last post on site was. It was the 16th, but do you think he bothered to address me in THIS game? NOPE.

Now, I ask myself why he ignored this game on the 16th and the only answer from where I sit is because you and him are both on the hot seat to answer me, but since you are posting, scum-him is willing to let you take the heat while he sits back and cools off. Not gonna happen, not on my watch.

VOTE: Jingle

Good news for you Anatole is I don't see both of you being scum. If Jingle flips scum, you're off the hook.

Ohhhhh. I'm very sorry that you're not my top priority. It's almost like I have a life. If you want I can walk you through my day, but I'm a little too pissed at how ridiculous your arguments are right now to give a fuck.

If somebody who isn't scum needs me, I'll be at the bottom of a bottle of Bacardi.

[Jingle]

Hey, don't have time for this one tonight. I'm going to be incredibly limited content until after the weekend. Sorry guys.

[Jingle]

At this point my only real townreads are ABR and ika. I don't want to lynch Wolfy for *reasons*.

I can't believe that kthx is still slipping the noose. Hopefully I won't be puking tomorrow and can set aside some time for this game.

@mod: what is the current VC?

[Jingle]

Jingle, are you still sick...3 days after you'd hoped to set aside time for this game or are you just waiting on a VC? If the latter, problem solved. If the latter, problem solved.

Sorry, but I didn't get to this today. I really like the misrep there though. Also the insinuation that I haven't been pushing for my preferred lynch today is just glorious. I'm fucking furious at other things right now, but I'm not moving my vote today. Kthx is scum, and when he flips scum I'm going to rub it in all of your faces.

[Jingle]

oh Jingle, you're so bad at this...or you're scum. Either way, you should go back to being 'sick'.

Oh, and not believing you're sick for a week =/= misrep. Funny how I can provoke you into posting multiple times this game though....

It's more funny how the amount of time I was sick keeps increasing.

I really don't like Wolfy's play, but there's a reason I don't want to vote him today that I can't talk about. How about kthx instead? It's pretty damn obvious that he's scum.

[Jingle]

Its not a softclaim. It's siterules meta.

[Jingle]

Kthx has also claimed a role that has no night powers and is scum.

[Jingle]

And I'm a flying purple elephant named Sampson.

[Jingle]

Are you asking me to get myself modkilled?

[Jingle]

Its not a softclaim. It's siterules meta.

I have no role in this game that tells me anything about Wolfy's alignment. I believe for *reasons* that he is probably town this game. I'm not sure if I'm right, but I don't want to gamble it today.

[Jingle]

Why?

[Jingle]

Then vote Anatole. kthx isn't getting lynched today. Nor is Macara.

Why?

[Jingle]

You're in an endgame situation with Anatole and shadowez. Wolfy flipped scum and kthx flipped town. What do you do now and why?

I would reread the thread from the beginning to see where I fucked up, because LYLO isn't a place for shitty premature votes.

Of the two, I think shadowez is slightly more likely to flip scum. Mostly, that's because I can't see a reason that AK/Kthx could be a legitimate thing.

[Jingle]

In post 1269, Jingle wrote:
In post 1265, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
You're in an endgame situation with Anatole and shadowez. Wolfy flipped scum and kthx flipped town. What do you do now and why?


I would reread the thread from the beginning to see where I fucked up, because LYLO isn't a place for shitty premature votes.

Of the two, I think shadowez is slightly more likely to flip scum. Mostly, that's because I can't see a reason that AK/Kthx could be a legitimate thing.


We already established that kthx had flipped town in this scenario.

And I'm ignoring your hypothetical due to lack of relevancy and lack of relevant information to the decision.

[Jingle]

Anyway, enough's enough:
I'm Town Rehab Doctor. At night I visit someone who was previously ill and recovered and that makes them immune to all diseases the next day.
I visited Beck both nights.

This isn't a claim?

[Jingle]

^Scum.

[Jingle]

VOTE: kthx

[Jingle]

Think you could unvote me and proxy it just so I'm not quick hammered?

Nice fearmongering. Vote stays.

[Jingle]

ill wait on others,

im willing to go no-lynch on this if we dont cure.

ak+jingle: how does an ABR kill make sense in a scum!kthnk world?

ABR is now dead so there is literally nobody to keep this game alive but me and I'm being scum read and scum reading too many people.

I'm sorry, Kthx answered you before I could get around to it.

Think you could unvote me and proxy it just so I'm not quick hammered?

Nice fearmongering. Vote stays.

for the record, youre not good at this game at all. unless youre scum of course. but if youre town, this is the worst blind tunneling Ive ever seen.

20 bucks says you think this post is scummy too.

I don't take bets I know I'm gonna lose.

Handy how the people who have noticed you're scum are all "bad at the game."

@ika: I'm not a fan of forcing the mass claim, but it looks like we've already got too many to stop right now.

I'm Dr. Amber Volakis. I'm a radiologist and can choose to give someone a CT, MRI, or X-Ray. I've been considering giving Kthx MRI's to see if I'm maybe a hidden radiation flavored vig.

[Jingle]

im willing to go no-lynch on this if we dont cure.

Please elaborate, ika.

[Jingle]

Oh... Kthx is still alive?

Where are we on deciding to heal MC or not?

See yall later.

[Jingle]

I think AK is not Kthx's scumbuddy. MC/Rogue/IKA are the most probable for Kthx's scumbuddy. Regardless, I want to lynch Kthx before I lynch Kthx's scumbuddy.

Kthx is scum.

That is all.

[Jingle]

I healed Beck Day 1, though I'll admit, it was partially accidental.

Explain.

[Jingle]

me - Lisa Cuddy (PR)
MC - Cameron (PR), claimed to have healed Beck in thread
Anatole - Chase (PR)
shaddowez - Chase's Daddy (PR), claimed to have PM healed Beck
Jingle - Volakis (PR)
Rogue - Thirteen (PR)
ika - I still don't know

FTFY

IKA, are you a PR too?

[Jingle]

Yup, so everyone is claiming PR. That's p great. I'm assuming everyone is similar in that they're diagnostic in nature. Thus we prove all of these roles and lynch the liar(s). I'm gonna go give MC an MRI.

[Jingle]

How do you know you cured Beck. Did Ven send you a PM saying such?

I use a PM, and I already sent it. I'm assuming that if we don't cure MC before Ven gets it, the results will be in the next VC.

[Jingle]

the two people claiming to not have abilities could be our two scum

I thought everyone claimed an ability.

[Jingle]

but, yes. we are cameron and we have a specialty in the immune system, though admittedly we hadn't healed via PM It's pretty clear that us saying the disease in thread is what actually cured beck because doing the exact same thing D2 cured wolfy

I'm a cardiologist but no role/action

aside from that

I see no VT claims.

[Jingle]

Town Radiologist

Amber does not have a mullet in the picture in my role PM.

Also, I still think given the provable nature of the claimed roles, we should, yknow, prove them.

[Jingle]

And the point is? If we can catch scum, I think it's worth making your disease worse.

Furthermore, is anyone else concerned about the lack of venmar?

[Jingle]

I see no VT claims.

Then you are blind or being dense...more to come on this, but FIRST.

The doctors are more or less vanilla from a mafia/gameplay standpoint. I diagnose via PM.

No, but still FIRST.

________________________

@Everyone

: In your next post, you need to say EXACTLY what your role is. IE, you need to say the part of your role PM which is in green or presumably red AFTER the picture of your character. Like this:

I'm Town Endocrinologist

________________________
I almost want to popcorn this to Anatole and MC first but I think it's more important that everyone place it in their next post so it doesn't get lost.

Why does this need to happen instead of one person grabbing all of the relevant information and putting it in one post? Oh, right. You're trying to look like you're doing something.

Here's your daily reminder everyone:

KTHX IS SCUM

[Jingle]

Jingle - kthx already sort of did in 1414 with the names... Do you think it's remotely possible he's trying to do this to do the same thing with powers?

I think that he's doing fuck all for actual scumhunting and trying to look like he isn't. I'm pretty sure everyone's claimed a diagnostic kind of power. It really doesn't make sense to me that there would be diagnostic powers with different mechanics, so I'm pretty sure all of these powers are confirm-able. Spending extra time on not actually getting new information is dumb and anti town.

Shaddowez, I think that forcing the 1v1 before actually confirming all of the powers is suspect. It seems like a good way to rush things if you don't have a diagnostic power to try and prevent that from coming out. If we have people lying about their role, we need to find that out now.

[Jingle]

An anonymous heart check concluded that there is no evidence there is anything directly wrong with the heart.

Here is heart diagnostics, being taken, as anyone who's paying attention and has a healing power would know. And yeah, scum prolly have some healing powers. Fakeclaims would definitely come from scum, however. Why are you opposed to possibly confirming scum? Oh. Right. I forgot. Because

KTHX IS SCUM.

First off, Jingle, you say I'm doing "full all for actual scumhunting" yet you park your vote on town. Pardon if all you bitching and moaning is falling on deaf ears.

Secondly, how does genius Jingle expect to confirm these powers? Also, weren't you part of the 'scum prolly have healing powers too' group?

[Jingle]

Yup. My only attempt at healing so far was submitted between the last vote count before Beck was healed and Beck getting healed. It's nice that you keep trying anything you can to shoot down my plan though. Is it maybe because you're not really a PR?

[Jingle]

Prod-Dodge. KTHX IS SCUM. That is all.

[Jingle]

plz drunk post a bunch for us i think it might motivate the thread

Ho

[Jingle]

w did you know I was drunk last night?

[Jingle]

So you guys know the scene in beerfest where they drink out of a boot? I just did that with hard liquor. I didn'teven know that they seriously made boot glasses, but my bartender is fucking awesome. And I'm really fucked up right now.

[Jingle]

I'm of the opinion that apparently the deadline is today, so that's not gonna happen.

VOTE: Shaddowez

Please god let me be wrong about kthx and have this flip scum.

[Jingle]

BTW, I sent an MRI to Ven, and got told there was nothing wrong with MC. We'll see if he puts that in the next VC soon enough. If he does, we are most definitely confirming everybody.

[Jingle]

Huh. This game is still a thing. I've frankly forgotten just about everything, so I need to reread. I'll try to get to it tomorrow, but tbh, it's not high on my priorities list.

[Jingle]

how about this:

thank out of jingle/AK whos scum?
jingle: out of kthnk/AK whos scum?
i think its ak.
ak thinks it jingle

if you want to assume me as well fine

I remember being sure k was scum. AK's post to him today was scummy as all hell.

Is there any reason not t hammer? Further, is there any reason we should wait and let the disease kill mc? I'm inclined to think no on both counts, but I barely remembered that the game existed. I'll have to reread and figure out what's happened, and the best bet is that I'll do that over the night phase.

[Jingle]

Or some mix. God... Is it possible that you're all scum?

[Jingle]

VOTE: mc

Fuckit. I'll reread over the night phase.

[Jingle]

You were town?

Fucking damnit. So it was K and ika?

I FUCKING KNEW IT!

[Jingle]

FUCKING K

GRAHHAKAKAASDHLKDHGPISCHN

I hate you all.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Anatole

[Jingle]

I'm counting it as a win only because I'm incredibly smug about being completely useless and aggressive to Kthx and getting him to townread me for it.

But yeah, no offense, Ven, but the game was pretty messed up from the word go.

[Jingle]

so jingle/mc

works for me

k thx

[Jingle]

Sorry, Mara.