Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Ankamius

I (or I guess reinoe now) am not from this franchise

halp

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Ankamius
VOTE: beeboy

[Ankamius]

You ruined the game. you were supposed to post something about spoiler=

Too busy voting scum to care atm.

[Ankamius]

2. @Ankamius: why is beeboy scum?

Can I get a raincheck on this question?

[Ankamius]

wait, he did?

fucking hell

I don't know if this changes anything

I don't understand the context behind this post.

[Ankamius]

These are fighting words right here. Any time anywhere. I choose Charizard and you can choose whomever you want, even dumb pokemon like Blastoise or something.

I choose Gengar!!!!!


@Ankamius What pokemon would you choose?
(serious question)

Quilava

[Ankamius]

Am I town notscience?

VOTE: Alchemist

Policy for that mess up.

I'm guessing your scumreads were just pulled from your ass then?

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: beeboy

nah

[Ankamius]

Am I town notscience?

VOTE: Alchemist

Policy for that mess up.

I'm guessing your scumreads were just pulled from your ass then?

No. I have only seen two people make that mistake.

1. Me as scum
2. A new player

They are not new so what does that leave?

VOTE: beastcharizard

[Ankamius]

I'm going to bed. I hope you guys don't post 30 pages of shit while I'm sleeping and at work because I'm not reading it if you do.

PEdit @beast: Your entire switch is not town. Having early scumreads and pushing them is null. Suddenly dropping them at a hat to push someone for making a mistake for that reasoning, then calling it a 'policy lynch' is too jagged a thought switch. I'm not buying it.

[Ankamius]

BTW, I honestly don't get why no one can spell any of my names

[Ankamius]

Phone posting just to say that I'm not reading the past THIRTY pages.

[Ankamius]

Phone posting just to say that I'm not reading the past THIRTY pages.

Might want too! Theres important posts in there!

~M

Like what?

[Ankamius]

Anything in particular you [anyone] want me to comment on?

[Ankamius]

I was trying to bait people into attacking me for the early game, or at least give

some

kind of response. I never had any kind of read on beeboy in the first place when I voted him. This type of early game is annoyingly difficult for me to read so I needed some way to get my foot in.

Reads?

beast is scummy
pieguy is kinda towny

[Ankamius]

I'm going to bed. I hope you guys don't post 30 pages of shit while I'm sleeping and at work because I'm not reading it if you do.

PEdit @beast: Your entire switch is not town. Having early scumreads and pushing them is null. Suddenly dropping them at a hat to push someone for making a mistake for that reasoning, then calling it a 'policy lynch' is too jagged a thought switch. I'm not buying it.

[Ankamius]

I was trying to bait people into attacking me for the early game, or at least give

some

kind of response. I never had any kind of read on beeboy in the first place when I voted him. This type of early game is annoyingly difficult for me to read so I needed some way to get my foot in.

Reads?

beast is scummy
pieguy is kinda towny

ank aren't you from that terrible site that we are not supposed to mention which is otherwise known as epic mafia?

so why do you find this early game play so terrible?

Actually, no. This is the very first site I ever played mafia.

I don't see where I called the early game play terrible. I said it was difficult to get reads in. If that's what you meant, then I find it difficult to get reads in that kind of environment because people are mostly giving reads without much (or any) context given. I very heavily base my reads around motivations and why people post things. Not having any context whatsoever drastically reduces the worth those reads have.

[Ankamius]

Well Ank

my problem with you currently is that there was things that went on in the pages that you refuse to read that could be helpful in you gathering reads on players, but your refusal to do so is bothering.

~M

Pretty much every instance I've seen where this kind of activity happened in such a short amount of time, it's been primarily discussing the same thing way more than it had value for and generally making the thread difficult to even read, much less analyze.

[Ankamius]

ActionDan: I'm seeing a startling amount of parallels to LoL Mafia. Leaning town.
Alchemist21: Don't like #130. Don't like #357 or #432. Leaning scum.
Icebox/Time: Disagree with a few things he says fundamentally, but nothing that's scummy from it. Null.
Jingle: Not liking the way he says haj is town and tries to push his lynch at the same time in a half-assed way. Leaning scum.
purple hero: Getting assorted town vibes from the pushes. The stance changes look organic. Leaning town.

[Ankamius]

@Ank: What do you think of Om putting Time in his list of possible scumreads.

I wasn't aware he ever did this, even after an ISO check.

[Ankamius]

Alch's reasoning sucks. The first point is a statement without showing how that's scummy in the slightest, while the second is a really vague point. He's basically continuing this trend where he's trying to escalate waves everyone else is making (big waves = harder to direct) instead of trying to direct the waves in the right direction.

beeboy's is null to me. He's done this kind of thought process as town before (weak meta read as it was one of his first games of mafia ever). The thought process is awkward enough to give scumvibes, but that's not particularly strong either when combined with that.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: beastcharizard
VOTE: Alchemist21

This I can def support.

[Ankamius]

Unvote

The last 2 votes are giving me bad vibes, maybe i should have stuck to my Jingle vote.

Revised scumreads.
Feidra, Jingle, {Kagami/

Alchemsit

/beeboy}, Nperson.
Something's odd in the bracketed but i don't feel confident voting anything in there yet.

Am I missing something?

[Ankamius]

Kagami's town and her points about pieguy actually make a decent amount of sense.
Mononoke's giving me gutscum feel.

Can we dismantle the Kagami wagon and get an Alchemist one instead?

PEdit: Dead null. The comment itself isn't indicative of anything and the reasoning checks out with the rest of his posts about Time around that part of the game.

[Ankamius]

@purple: Because they joined the wagon once it started getting traction, then immediately backtracked and hopped right off the moment Kagami started being able to actually defend herself. It doesn't sit right with me.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Alchemist21
VOTE: Jingle

Liking the Kagami push even less now, especially since it feels like most of the playerlist now is at least passively supporting it. There's so much shit flying around that I'd feel there would be more resistance to this lynch if she was scum.

[Ankamius]

You have no idea how I play as scum.

[Ankamius]

Users:

Saki
Npiau
Gaiden
Time
Ankamius



^ ultimate lurkers/apathetics/lowest contributors ^

i barely remember them

if all fails we can flashwagon one of them and hope they flip scum

Saki: 7 posts
Npiau: 11 posts
Gaiden: 17 posts
Time: 16 posts
Ankamius: 27 posts

This is over roughly 3.5 days. The problem is the game is moving way too fast, not that people aren't posting enough.

PEdit: Case in point considering I had to post submit like 4 times to actually post.

[Ankamius]

That's just 5 people. 16 people are posting normally. Which means the game is moving normally. You're just lurking, no excuses.

~Wis

Reasons like this are why I think the meta for this site has degraded since 2011.

[Ankamius]

How exactly is Alchemist town?

[Ankamius]

It's seriously pissing me off that no one can see how much of a scumbutt he is.

[Ankamius]

That's just 5 people. 16 people are posting normally. Which means the game is moving normally. You're just lurking, no excuses.

~Wis

@Time anything not lurking is normal

~Wis

Define lurking.

[Ankamius]

Did I hear Alchemist wagon?
VOTE: Alchemist21

Also lol phone posting at work.

[Ankamius]

Are they your only two scum reads?

That's kinda weak for a secondary scumread out of two in a list of around 20 people.

[Ankamius]

The opportunism is real.

[Ankamius]

Look at the end of the pieguy wagon. There's def scum in there.

[Ankamius]

I have a theory as to the role MS has. It is unlikely a busdriver was involved if I'm right.

Where's the soft guilty on Jakuzure? Or are you referring to haj?

This can die too.

[Ankamius]

The opportunism is real.

Look at the end of the pieguy wagon. There's def scum in there.

you're aware I kind of sort of had a guilty on me right?

also why were you townreading Kagami yesterday?

I was aware of a "pseudo-guilty", which I consider to be non-conclusive until more details are known.

A combination of the general attitude towards her not looking town and town responses to questions. Her giving up until after hammer is null.

[Ankamius]

Yeah... No.

I actually lied. A lot of your recent posts are bad too.

[Ankamius]

Lied as in gave a misleading reason.

posting at 4am is great ( *:

[Ankamius]

going to bed have fun guys~

[Ankamius]

@pieguy:

Spoiler:

Can we not disengage brain and vote Pie due to guilties?

I want Pie's response, claim and reads list, and will consider a hammer before that happens (or he refuses to cooperate) a scumclaim.

It is L-3. That is enough for now.

PEDIT: L-2

You might want to prod dodge from the account that gets prodded.

Curiosity, could you kindly shut the fuck up a minute? Pie needs to answer. Then we talk to MS. Jumping the gun does town 0 favors.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure Om is scum. Agree or disagree?

Pie isn't necessarily town, and I want to know what he thinks about this guilty. Wisdom is just being dumb. Kinda like his Jingle is scum rant.

I want the reads and claim because scum fake guilties. Or have you forgotten AP in Antihero Reboot? Rushing through the day is both stupid and bad play.

I think Om is town @ whoever asked me.

Why?

will consider a hammer before that happens (or he refuses to cooperate)

a scumclaim

Do you read the thread before post mollie?

enough to know that I did not write what you just assigned me posting to.

and I also understand the significance of "or" in your parenthesis but you seem to be ready to lynch him regardless

It was in the quote in your post. My apologies for implying you stated that.

And no. I'm not at all ready for a lynch. I'm ready for Pie to claim, sure. That's not the same thing. If Pie refuses to answer to the accusation, then yeah, I'll lynch the shit out of him.

He basically just parks a vote on Om and fluffs through the pie-wagon, and the way he tells people not to shut off their brain then trying to stifle the conversation that Wisdom and Sonic are having doesn't scream town to me. It was going to be necessary regardless that pieguy would have to claim and that MS wouldn't claim anything before that, so I don't understand why taking this stance was necessary.

---

His reads regarding Alchemist and Om are really awkward too.

1. He was willing to sheep Wisdom on Alchemist town through Day 1, yet as soon as Wisdom flipped his town and scumreads on Alch and Om, he immediately tried to get the reasoning for Om. This doesn't look town because he only decided that Alch was scummier (Wisdom had the same reasons, by the way) once Wisdom explained the Om read. If he was town, I'd expect that unless he's hiding something really important, he'd discard the reason for not finding Alch as scummy (Wisdom's townread on him) immediately and go back to voting Alchemist immediately. I don't understand why he had to be convinced that Om and Alch are not partners to switch off of Om.

UNVOTE: Alchemist21
VOTE: Jingle

I'll sort Alchemist more after Jingle flips. Jingle-scum means Alchemist is problably town.

[Ankamius]

He basically just parks a vote on Om and fluffs through the pie-wagon, and the way he tells people not to shut off their brain then trying to stifle the conversation that Wisdom and Sonic are having doesn't scream town to me. It was going to be necessary regardless that pieguy would have to claim and that MS wouldn't claim anything before that, so I don't understand why taking this stance was necessary.

It really wasn't obviously necessary. Pie was at L-2. We have some fashion of hidden voter. One more person was all that was necessary for a quickhammer.

Also please justify your accusation of fluff wrt the quoted posts. One of them was fluff. The rest was actively trying to sort the shit going on ITT.

Constantly saying the same thing is both fluffy and not trying to actively sort shit out.

[Ankamius]

I think I found it. I'm not sure it's from Om-town, but Alchemist's flip should clarify that a little and I also think he's likely scum.

VOTE: Alchemist

I don't see Om and Alch as a reasonable possibility.

How else am I supposed to take this statement?

[Ankamius]

1. He was willing to sheep Wisdom on Alchemist town through Day 1, yet as soon as Wisdom flipped his town and scumreads on Alch and Om, he immediately tried to get the reasoning for Om. This doesn't look town because he only decided that Alch was scummier (Wisdom had the same reasons, by the way) once Wisdom explained the Om read. If he was town, I'd expect that unless he's hiding something really important, he'd discard the reason for not finding Alch as scummy (Wisdom's townread on him) immediately and go back to voting Alchemist immediately. I don't understand why he had to be convinced that Om and Alch are not partners to switch off of Om.

Or maybe I've been scumreading both for quite a while. And I'm not convinced that Om and Alch aren't partners. As for changing my vote when conftown gives me reasoning... Well.

The way you've been switching your votes are what I'm attacking, not your reads.

[Ankamius]

I'll look into npiau sometime later. His Saki defense is giving me some bad vibes.

BTW I have not forgotten about Jingle. I don't feel like trying to do anything that requires too many page flips on a tablet.

[Ankamius]

Pieguy I can dance with you in a few hours.

[Ankamius]

Before I do anything else, why is AD being wagoned?

[Ankamius]

Spoiler: A conversation that Ank looked at half of.

Can we not disengage brain and vote Pie due to guilties?

I want Pie's response, claim and reads list, and will consider a hammer before that happens (or he refuses to cooperate) a scumclaim.

It is L-3. That is enough for now.

PEDIT: L-2

Get the fuck off pieguy. He's still town.

MS talk to me about what a "pseudo guilty" is, because I'm very close to lynching you.

~Wis

Curiosity, could you kindly shut the fuck up a minute? Pie needs to answer. Then we talk to MS. Jumping the gun does town 0 favors.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure Om is scum. Agree or disagree?

I am not faking guilty on one of my favourite players on the site.

If you two aren't masons then this lynch will go through. Simple as that. Don't go with 'redirector' bs when you clearly don't have any result that contradicts mine

Get the fuck off pieguy. He's still town.

I don't get it, why is pie town? I thought you thought he was town because you thought Kagami was scum.
Also you didnt answer my question

Pie isn't necessarily town, and I want to know what he thinks about this guilty. Wisdom is just being dumb. Kinda like his Jingle is scum rant.

Can we not disengage brain and vote Pie due to guilties?

I want Pie's response, claim and reads list, and will consider a hammer before that happens (or he refuses to cooperate) a scumclaim.

It is L-3. That is enough for now.

PEDIT: L-2

why would you ever want a list of reads and a claim but would consider a hammer before that happens?

like I don't even get this.

VOTE: jingle

I want the reads and claim because scum fake guilties. Or have you forgotten AP in Antihero Reboot? Rushing through the day is both stupid and bad play.

will consider a hammer before that happens (or he refuses to cooperate)

a scumclaim

Do you read the thread before post mollie?

enough to know that I did not write what you just assigned me posting to.

and I also understand the significance of "or" in your parenthesis but you seem to be ready to lynch him regardless

I think Om is town @ whoever asked me.

Why?

will consider a hammer before that happens (or he refuses to cooperate)

a scumclaim

Do you read the thread before post mollie?

enough to know that I did not write what you just assigned me posting to.

and I also understand the significance of "or" in your parenthesis but you seem to be ready to lynch him regardless

It was in the quote in your post. My apologies for implying you stated that.

And no. I'm not at all ready for a lynch. I'm ready for Pie to claim, sure. That's not the same thing. If Pie refuses to answer to the accusation, then yeah, I'll lynch the shit out of him.

Explain what "pseudo guilty" is or I'm voteparking you until you die.

~Wis

Nope, masons or not masons.

That is all there is

I still want pie's response. Dreams, claim nothing further until that happens.

Dreams, wait for pie.

So here's my "fluff" in context, where I'm actually having a discussion and trying to quash antitown discussion. Yup. Super Scummy.

Here's the problem.

1. You were attacking people for disengaging their brains to jump on the wagon.
2. You tried to stifle a conversation that was completely neutral to the wagon at the time; the wagon wasn't going to suddenly vanish because of Wisdom and Metal Sonic going in circles around each other and pieguy wasn't going to be able to get away with not responding because of it either. Butting in so many times to try to get them to stop is awkward at best. I was actually inclined to believe that both are near conftown just from that conversation.
3. Your stance is a way to get really easy towncred. It's pro-town to get this type of information; it becomes forced when the above happens.

1. He was willing to sheep Wisdom on Alchemist town through Day 1, yet as soon as Wisdom flipped his town and scumreads on Alch and Om, he immediately tried to get the reasoning for Om. This doesn't look town because he only decided that Alch was scummier (Wisdom had the same reasons, by the way) once Wisdom explained the Om read. If he was town, I'd expect that unless he's hiding something really important, he'd discard the reason for not finding Alch as scummy (Wisdom's townread on him) immediately and go back to voting Alchemist immediately. I don't understand why he had to be convinced that Om and Alch are not partners to switch off of Om.

Or maybe I've been scumreading both for quite a while. And I'm not convinced that Om and Alch aren't partners. As for changing my vote when conftown gives me reasoning... Well.

The way you've been switching your votes are what I'm attacking, not your reads.

And you're saying that somehow voting between the different people I'm scumreading is scummy? How?

You never actually responded to most of my case here.

1. You scumread both of them in your reads list, but you focused on Om while trusting Wisdom's read on Alchemist over your own; therefore you never really went after Alchemist Day 1.
2. Wisdom suddenly started townreading Om and scumreading Alchemist once Day 2 started. Your first post in the day was after Wisdom voted Alchemist. You initially ignored it in lieu of the above pseudo-guilty shenanigans, then you wrote this. For someone who was willing to trust someone's read the day before, requiring reasons for suddenly reading Om-town after specifically stating that the same person is his top townread looks incredibly off.

Apparently I got mixed up; Jingle-scum means Alchemist is more likely scum, not town. It makes sense for scum to forgo a scumread on a partner on day 1 easily and resist having to go back on later.

^me

I'm going to go cry now.

---

Tags fixed

[Ankamius]

I'm going to go cry now.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius tentative town
sneaky bastard I'm going to get you back for TfT one day

Nope ( *:

[Ankamius]

I feel like I should be posting in here drunk.

[Ankamius]

Before I do anything else, why is AD being wagoned?

his play this entire game has been essentially coasting

he played a really safe D1, there weren't really any hard stances or anything controversial anywhere in his ISO, there was a lot of filler that served no real purpose other than to look town. D2 was more of the same till he got called out for not actually being a mason and now that that's over he's starting to do it again.

I'm still taking the mason gambit as a point against him although it's not exactly very strong. in ISO, 922 also read as buddying.

Here's my problem with this case: This is almost exactly what happened in LoL Mafia... where he was town.

He was significantly townread very early on in D1, but he basically just started coasting and got scumread pretty fast for not being useful for multiple day phases until he was flashlynched at deadline on Day 3. He was more useful there than now, but this game is also a fuckton harder to follow too, so I don't see that as very telling.

I wish Nacho was here right now.

[Ankamius]

Here's my problem with this case: This is almost exactly what happened in LoL Mafia... where he was town.

He was significantly townread very early on in D1, but he basically just started coasting and got scumread pretty fast for not being useful for multiple day phases until he was flashlynched at deadline on Day 3. He was more useful there than now, but this game is also a fuckton harder to follow too, so I don't see that as very telling.

I wish Nacho was here right now.

you are saying the way he played there was the same as here?

cos I'm taking a look through his ISO from that game and I can already see a huge difference. it's basically night and day actually. in that game you can tell he was taking stances and trying to accomplish shit in the game, as opposed to his ISO here which is mostly filler and doesn't seem to be aimed at accomplishing anything. I don't ~really~ want to get caught up in meta, but at the very least I don't particularly think this is good evidence against him being scum.

That game was infinitely more readable and easy to follow, since the main things that were preventing people from being able to read anything were shitfest 1v1 arguments and wallposting. Getting a grasp on the game based on what was going on at the time was easy and a very significant amount of his contributions were based on that. It's a lot harder to do that here when we have a lot of instant messaging conversations in forum form, so having less concrete stances and more just responding to whatever's trending at that exact moment is more plausible.

[Ankamius]

That game was infinitely more readable and easy to follow, since the main things that were preventing people from being able to read anything were shitfest 1v1 arguments and wallposting. Getting a grasp on the game based on what was going on at the time was easy and a very significant amount of his contributions were based on that. It's a lot harder to do that here when we have a lot of instant messaging conversations in forum form, so having less concrete stances and more just responding to whatever's trending at that exact moment is more plausible.

this would be fine if anything he contributed actually added anything to the game whatsoever.

look at what he did this game day:

-calling attention to haj having a soft guilty
-2563. I don't even know how what he's asking about would tell him anything about the alignments of either player
-more calling attention to haj having a soft guilty
-asking me for a full claim
-2966 defending NPIAU
-wondering when haj gets back

with all of his posts, I find myself asking what he's trying to actually get done and accomplish in this game, and I come up with fuck all. the dynamic of the game does not change the fact that you should be expected to do things that actually accomplish shit.

The biggest reason people were scumreading AD in that game was the exact same reason you are; he wasn't doing anything.

btw

@Ank: D1 you said Kagami was town and her points against me made a lot of sense. how did you go from there to WK'ing the shit out of me D2? it seems very unnatural to do that when you had previously said something that implied you thought I could be scum.

My reads usually aren't in a vacuum. I 180 reads when something drastic happens... like when a wagon on said person looks slimy as hell.

[Ankamius]

The biggest reason people were scumreading AD in that game was the exact same reason you are; he wasn't doing anything.

except he was doing shit in that game

we went over that when I pointed out he was taking stances and actually trying to accomplish things in that game

You missed my point.

My point is that he was contributing far less than the rest of the playerlist and was scumread for all 3 day phases before dying, then flipped town. Since this game is a lot harder to read and follow, the same motivation level would result in less content, resulting in the same type of result. I'm not arguing about it being bad; I'm arguing about it being scummy.

[Ankamius]

You missed my point.

My point is that he was contributing far less than the rest of the playerlist and was scumread for all 3 day phases before dying, then flipped town. Since this game is a lot harder to read and follow, the same motivation level would result in less content, resulting in the same type of result. I'm not arguing about it being bad; I'm arguing about it being scummy.

and you're missing my point

it doesn't matter how much content he has

what matters is what that content is aiming to accomplish when he ~does~ post it, e.g. what the content actually is

Dan's content this game is, quite blatantly, completely useless. nothing he has done at all this game day has any town motivation, or has anything that indicates he is attempting to determine alignments or otherwise game solve. the fact that he might post LESS content, should not have any effect on the fact that none of the content he HAS posted has been aimed to accomplish anything at all, especially when it's shown he is capable of providing town motivated content as town (even when there is not much of it)

but go on, tell me what he is trying to do in this game with the things I listed off

He put out a stance on Kagami on Day 1 and asked why people were scumreading her. Considering that she was basically the primary focal point for half of Day 1, this is reasonable. The length of the topic exploded so fast that I'd pretty much expect anyone who's jumping in the middle and not wanting to read back would start here.
He's the only one giving any shits about haj's anti-town crusade against Jakuzure. I like this because worse case scenario, haj is threatening to basically make two players in the game nothing but noise (him and Jaku) until it's dealt with and no one else is caring. He's been focusing mainly on the focal points for the day instead of meandering into random nonsense. I'd rather wait until AD posts more (which he's already doing as I'm typing this, I see) before really judging this much more, as it has only been a few days since the day started.

One thing I will note is that you're getting bias from how many posts this game has. AD had multiple pockets of time posting literally nothing in LoL, up to about the timeframe that this game was even up. Go through his ISO in LoL and pay close attention to the time stamps. It's very easy to point towards content levels and see the disparity, but the relevance of it is a lot lower than you think. We've only been playing this game for EIGHT DAYS (not counting night 1).

[Ankamius]

Beastcharizard is in the game still? I don't remember him doing anything in the past forever.

[Ankamius]

@Mod: Can you put the videos in spoiler tags? They make loading your ISO really difficult.

[Ankamius]

er

as I said, this has nothing to do with the LEVEL of activity. it's the QUALITY of the activity that counts

How is that different?

[Ankamius]

How is that different?

srsly?

I literally just went over this

You missed my point.

My point is that he was contributing far less than the rest of the playerlist and was scumread for all 3 day phases before dying, then flipped town. Since this game is a lot harder to read and follow, the same motivation level would result in less content, resulting in the same type of result. I'm not arguing about it being bad; I'm arguing about it being scummy.

and you're missing my point

it doesn't matter how much content he has

what matters is what that content is aiming to accomplish when he ~does~ post it, e.g. what the content actually is

Dan's content this game is, quite blatantly, completely useless. nothing he has done at all this game day has any town motivation, or has anything that indicates he is attempting to determine alignments or otherwise game solve. the fact that he might post LESS content, should not have any effect on the fact that none of the content he HAS posted has been aimed to accomplish anything at all, especially when it's shown he is capable of providing town motivated content as town (even when there is not much of it)

but go on, tell me what he is trying to do in this game with the things I listed off

What I was getting at is those two are linked. Both are relevant. Discounting one to focus on the other doesn't work. You're not looking at the whole picture.

AD posted a lot in the beginning of LoL about the early towerhug strategy, but did virtually nothing else. He posted like 2 stances but otherwise did virtually nothing. He literally prod dodged through the entire second half of the day.

Day 2 was just a montage of him posting a few times about setup spec or giving wishy washy stances for a bit, then vanishing again. He never pushed anything throughout day 2 either. It took him until Day 3 to be productive in the game.

When did he post content? When something within the last few posts happened that he wanted to voice an opinion on. This is why the game's differences are relevant; LoL had a much lower noise:content ratio than this game where we have pointless tangents every 1-2 pages. I had to get my hand held in order to get caught up in this game while I had no issues in the other one. The most recent content in this game is rarely useful without context from the past several pages.

This all adds up to pretty much what I've been saying this whole time.

[Ankamius]

We're just now paying any attention to this?

[Ankamius]

haj's soft guilty.

[Ankamius]

Sigh. I wasn't getting scumvibes from any of Feifwitch's posts until the meltdown just now.

Intent to vote/hammer here pending vote count. I'm not counting votes on a tablet.

[Ankamius]

just fucking do it. this is the last post im making in this game.

alright

VOTE: Jakuzure

[Ankamius]

Huh.

I'll relook into Alchemist a bit later, mainly into how he treated Jingle. I'm waiting because work today was hell and I'm not in the mood to think.

[Ankamius]

Hm.

I was originally starting to get pretty big townvibes from Alchemist for how he treated Jingle, but I looked back at the game I played with him that ended recently (scumgame) and found that he was quick to bus his partners, so now I'm a lot less certain that this is valid. I'll have to refresh my memory on why I originally got a scumread on him and see if it was consistent.

Work week is over after today. I'll put effort in sometime tonight after work.

[Ankamius]

I was originally starting to get pretty big townvibes from Alchemist for how he treated Jingle, but I looked back at the game I played with him that ended recently (scumgame) and found that he was quick to bus his partners, so now I'm a lot less certain that this is valid.

Umm. You do realize Jingle was town? What does bussing have to do with anything?

~Wis

I'm aware. What I was getting at is that Alchemist tends to bus his buddies from what I've seen, so him townreading Jingle for a lot of the game makes sense from him as scum as well.

[Ankamius]

No. The way he was regarding Jingle looked town at first because his reasoning was weak, yet awkward enough to switch on that it would be as weird scum action to take on someone who has a decent amount of pressure on them.

I checked and noticed he likes to put his scumpartners in the scum side of his reads and is not afraid to bus them if necessary, so him having that type of stance makes more sense if he is scum.

[Ankamius]

No. The way he was regarding Jingle looked town at first because his reasoning was weak, yet awkward enough to switch on that it would be as weird scum action to take on someone who has a decent amount of pressure on them.

I checked and noticed he likes to put his scumpartners in the scum side of his reads and is not afraid to bus them if necessary, so him having that type of stance makes more sense if he is scum.

what? still doesn't make sense.

you're still talking about jingle like he might be scum. he's not.

Blame me trying to save words because tabletposting.

Alchemist, as scum, isn't afraid to put pressure on his partners and bus them for weak and awkward reasons. Him doing the same thing for a townread is something that I can definitely see coming from him as scum. His reasoning for Jingle-town is weak and awkward, and he never really ever talks about it again after that single-line explanation. I don't believe it is town reasoning both because of that and his cherrypicking of what he agrees with (with no details whatsoever).

VOTE: Alchemist21

[Ankamius]

Saki's someone I can get behind lynching too.

[Ankamius]

@Ank, you're going to have to explain how you think I've been cherrypicking things that I agree with.

@Sakura, what do you think of this post by Om? This reminds me of the wager you made with Reinoe about randomidget in o571.

yo pie if alch is town ill sheep u for the rest of the game ok
i promise
now trust me

Your point that he's only been posting from town motivation is vague and weak by itself, and your other reasoning says that you agree with

two

of his stances out of around twenty without any justification at any point. If that's not cherrypicking, then what is it?

[Ankamius]

I especially hate the reasoning Ankamius used for the vote. It doesn't make any sense.

~Wis

I went into more detail again. If you still feel this way, explain it.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: haj

I dont like his posts



Just believe in me alch and dan are town <3

Everything about this post is bad.

[Ankamius]

Because this sort-of feels like a Nacho-driven scumteam. The general air about the game.

Can you amend this with your thoughts? Nacho hasn't been in this thread much that I've seen (which has already been stated a few times)- let me finish this thought in a second.

PEDIT: THANKS GIF

[Ankamius]

Can you amend that with your thoughts? Nacho hasn't been in this thread much that I've seen (which has already been stated a few times), so do you still believe this to be the case (whether he's mostly behind the scenes directing things), or if not, how does it change your reads?

[Ankamius]

^Lynch this guy too

[Ankamius]

I'm okay with On now as well. Beeboy is still a superior lynch to AD. Getting townvibes from Mastin's posts, albeit with a note that this will change if she takes too long to do the ISOs she kept mentioning. However:

Mastin:

Did you respond to my amended post (the one you quoted was incomplete) or just the one you quoted?

[Ankamius]

why the mastin slot hasn't been lynched is beyond me...

Look at the people currently on the wagon at the time you made that post. It should be pretty clear after that.

[Ankamius]

Getting townvibes from Mastin's posts, albeit with a note that this will change if she takes too long to do the ISOs she kept mentioning.

Damn, there goes one ally.
(I am NOTORIOUS for procrastinating, sooooooooooooo, far more likely than not, you'll lose patience waiting on me.)

Eh. If you get enough of a handle on the game, I'll count it.

Mastin:

Did you respond to my amended post (the one you quoted was incomplete) or just the one you quoted?

There was a difference? Didn't notice.[/quote]

Yep, because your answer didn't have anything to do with those at all.

Here:

Can you amend that with your thoughts? Nacho hasn't been in this thread much that I've seen (which has already been stated a few times),

so do you still believe this to be the case (whether he's mostly behind the scenes directing things), or if not, how does it change your reads?

Bolded are the added portion.

[Ankamius]

@Mod: Can you add the same quote post from #4442 right after the second mastin quote for me? Thanks.

[Ankamius]

moreover, Ankamius did something similar. he has generally been very quiet, but now he has suddenly started pushing beeboy as scum relatively hard, defending mastin, and pushing the idea that the composition of the mastin wagon is bad.

You should know by now that I usually ebb and flow in games. I'll have a time where I'm active and then just fade into the background for a few days (mainly because this is me in virtually every osu!mafia game I play in). This is true regardless of alignment.

If that made my reads unclear, then make a case on them. I have reasons for all of them.

[Ankamius]

You should know by now that I usually ebb and flow in games. I'll have a time where I'm active and then just fade into the background for a few days (mainly because this is me in virtually every osu!mafia game I play in). This is true regardless of alignment.

If that made my reads unclear, then make a case on them. I have reasons for all of them.

it's not really about that; it's about the overall narrative. if mastin replaces in and then your read happens to shift at that exact point, in a way that is very similar to what mastin's teammates do in response to her joining their team and telling them to defend each other, then it is worth noting regardless of how you otherwise play

btw I think your reasoning on Alch is bad. what is important about the fact that Alch only agreed with 2 of Jingle's reads? it's pretty obvious the mindset there is that he agreed on the most important and pressing reads in the gamestate at that time, and felt strongly about it, as opposed to focusing on sheer numbers.

Shift from what? I literally have never once posted a single read on haj this game that I know of. You'll have to show your work here too, because I have literally played only one game with mastin where we were both alive at the same time, and it's in a game where her entire presence in that game was erased due to a forum crash.

You're completely missing the point re: Alch. He got a townread on Jingle from the following two reasons:
1. General town posting. <- completely useless and vague statement. You can use this kind of reasoning for anything and it would be useless.
2. He agreed with Jingle on Beeboy and Kagami <- vague statement, but less vague than the above. Keep in mind that Jingle posted reads on

TWENTY PEOPLE

. Singling out two and townreading him just for agreeing on those two reads sounds really fake. The fact that Alch was his second biggest scumread makes it even more suspicious.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius why are you not picking a side re: AD?

~Wis

I already have. I think if there's any scum in the neighborhood, it's beeboy.

[Ankamius]

Shift from what? I literally have never once posted a single read on haj this game that I know of. You'll have to show your work here too, because I have literally played only one game with mastin where we were both alive at the same time, and it's in a game where her entire presence in that game was erased due to a forum crash.

it's like you didn't even read my post that you initially responded to.

the point was, there was a previous game where mastin replaced into a scum slot and a similar dynamic happened - as soon as she replaced in she told everyone to stop bussing and start defending each other. the way you came out of nowhere to suddenly defend mastin and attack beeboy looks like you are following that kind of approach

as I said, I'm not really considering it as a good reason for anyone being scum at this point, but it is noted

I'll go into this more a bit later. Too lazy to go ISO hunting right now.

You're completely missing the point re: Alch. He got a townread on Jingle from the following two reasons:
1. General town posting. <- completely useless and vague statement. You can use this kind of reasoning for anything and it would be useless.
2. He agreed with Jingle on Beeboy and Kagami <- vague statement, but less vague than the above. Keep in mind that Jingle posted reads on TWENTY PEOPLE. Singling out two and townreading him just for agreeing on those two reads sounds really fake. The fact that Alch was his second biggest scumread makes it even more suspicious.

yes, and what I am saying was Kagami was the major focus for all of D1. don't you imagine that someone agreeing with you on the most crucial read of the game would be more telling than agreeing with someone on a bunch of irrelevant reads?

It's even more interesting when you double iso them~

Alchemist posted that he nullread Jingle right before Jingle posted his reads, then suddenly he was 'townreading' Jingle when he was brought up, then had to make up some shit to justify it. The beeboy and Kagami things were very recent at that time so it was an easy scapegoat.

[Ankamius]

@Ank, you're going to have to explain how you think I've been cherrypicking things that I agree with.

@Sakura, what do you think of this post by Om? This reminds me of the wager you made with Reinoe about randomidget in o571.

yo pie if alch is town ill sheep u for the rest of the game ok
i promise
now trust me

Your point that he's only been posting from town motivation is vague and weak by itself, and your other reasoning says that you agree with

two

of his stances out of around twenty without any justification at any point. If that's not cherrypicking, then what is it?

I had already stated my opinions about those 2 stances before Jingle started talking about them. I had little to no opinion on many other things. So no, I wasn't cherrypicking because I already expressed those opinions, and then Jingle came and said some of the same things I was saying. His posts and attempts to analyze everyone's posts looked town to me because I couldn't see scum objectively looking at the whole player list and developing reads the way he did.

Double-ISO you and Jingle and try to search for Kagami. Look at what comes up first ( *:
beeboy is pretty much the same. You didn't post anything about reading beeboy until Jingle's list.
Combine that with what he posted about you. HMMMMMM

[Ankamius]

f

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Alchemist21
VOTE: beeboy

[Ankamius]

That tactic's not going to get you anywhere.

[Ankamius]

Why did you unvote your scum read just because I voted them? If you read on me was strong enough to make you do that shouldn't your vote been on me in the first place?

Misrep. I just said within the past couple pages that I'm scumreading you, and I have been for a while now.

[Ankamius]

This game is hard i will just sheep conf town

VOTE: Alch

A better question is, what changed between these two posts?

[Ankamius]

Metal Sonic, you forgot Saki/Alch/beeboy.

[Ankamius]

Oh, Gaiden was supporting haj lynch all day phase. Yeah, he's scum too.

[Ankamius]

Ok I'll fucking explain what happened since it has come to this.

I received a 1-shot Desperado shot to use during N2. For whoever doesn't know, a Desperado shoots someone, and if that someone is scum, they die. If they are town, the Desperado shooter dies instead.

I used it on AD. He didn't die. I didn't die.

We thought this either means AD is bulletproof scum, or a scum doc protected him. The only other possibility we could see is if we got roleblocked (but why would a roleblocker RB a mason), or if we or AD got jailkept. But I doubted there's even a jailkeeper.

Now we know there's a jailkeeper. This means AD is not necessarily scum.

~Wis

The most likely explanation is that you were protected. (This is not an invitation for a doctor or doctor-type claim.)

[Ankamius]

The most likely explanation is that you were protected. (This is not an invitation for a doctor or doctor-type claim.)

NO IT FUCKING ISN'T.

THERE ARE ONLY A FEW POSSIBILITIES FOR WHAT HAPPENED:

1. Dan is bulletproof scum
2. there is a scum doc who protected Dan, in which case he's scum
3. Dan got jailkept. in this case, he is scum anyway and DOAA is also scum
4. Wis got jailkept <- scum DOAA really has no reason to forgo using this on a partner, and then claim he targeted the wrong mason anyway.

DID YOU MISS THE PART WHERE

DOAA CLAIMED TO JAILKEEP ME N2?

IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD. QUIT TRYING TO COVER IT UP.

You should explain why I'm wrong instead of repeating what your mason partner said.

[Ankamius]

2. DESPERADO DEATH IS A PASSIVE DEATH SIMILAR TO HIDER. DOC PROTECTION CAN'T FUCKING STOP IT.

Calm the fuck down. It doesn't say this on the wiki and Wisdom didn't say iteither.

[Ankamius]

2. DESPERADO DEATH IS A PASSIVE DEATH SIMILAR TO HIDER. DOC PROTECTION CAN'T FUCKING STOP IT.

Calm the fuck down. It doesn't say this on the wiki and Wisdom didn't say iteither.

[Ankamius]

Nah, that was the only issue I saw with the claim.

UNVOTE: beeboy
VOTE: ActionDan

PEdit: This is @pieguy. I'm not going back to quote the post.

[Ankamius]

ebwop: never mind what i said about Ank, i love you

<3

I don't sheep non-absolutes without being thorough first.

[Ankamius]

Not feeling mastin scum.

[Ankamius]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one seeing Saki's stink lines this game.

[Ankamius]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one seeing Saki's stink lines this game.

we've pushed him most of the game, sup?

I must have missed it.

[Ankamius]

Saki/Alchemist21/Gaiden/Om

Might be other possibilities but I'm not going to go look at the playerlist to refresh my memory right now because I go back to work in a couple minutes.

[Ankamius]

no it doesnt - nobody is stupid enough to defend obvscum. Except maybe Ank

~Wis

[Ankamius]

Not feeling mastin scum.

I swear to god, your play this game has been so ass backwards I want to call you scum just via BOP. you're aware this is the second time you're defending obvious scum without solid reasoning, correct?

This statement doesn't even make sense.

[Ankamius]

Anyway mastin2's posts make me even less convinced that she's scum. Disregarding meta entirely, my gut doesn't detect any scum motivations behind any of her recent posts. Just looking at how she reacts to things doesn't look like scum panicking either. The way the wagon completely exploded on her as soon as the day started tingles me the wrong way on top of that.

So... why is mastin scum again?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Alchemist

[Ankamius]

tbh I'm being a hypocrite but I see no reason for mastin to claim now instead of all the other times she could've

^Scumpost

[Ankamius]

*even have to be half awake

Ank's defense of mastin is really bad and

most of what he's saying is objectively wrong

. also bad is the way he is pushing on a role that can basically be confirmed down the line.

Show your work.

[Ankamius]

. . .despite hard defending him the previous day.

I never did this.

[Ankamius]

can I just say "all of it"? because that's basically true

So my gut is objectively wrong?

but anyway, has the Dan scumflip impacted your reads at all? if so, how?

Most of my scumreads are individual based on what they themselves did, so it really hasn't changed a whole lot. Alch looks worse with AD scumflip, beeboy looks better. That's about it, really.

[Ankamius]

Mastin's entire playstyle this game is basically saying shit that will just pile on more attention to her, and literally has not changed once from when she started posting to when she started getting pressure. That is such a ridiculous thing to argue that I have a hard time believing that it's scum-motivated. She had to have known at that point that most, if not all, of the reason that people were voting her was for that, so... continuing to defend it helps her... how?

I'm not really sure how I can show my work with #2. The main gist is that the way she bullheaded against the accusation on her only to post reads with explanations, then claim setup shit on top of that doesn't look like scum pushed into a corner.

Third is purely gut, and the type that I'd never be able to explain.

[Ankamius]

and I honestly have no fucking clue why anyone wants to lynch me over even the tiniest bit scummy player right now with 15 living players

b/c I'm basically confirmable pre-LyLo

I shouldn't even be on lynchlists

This logic is so slimy it hurts.

[Ankamius]

This logic is so slimy it hurts.

what part of
'you can lynch me anytime before LyLo to confirm me as town with no backlash' do you not understand
It's like that one time where I was the hated townie who became loved with >5 players remaining and i had conftown status until I could be confirmed @MyLo

Because once you start acting like a scumbutt, you suddenly become the best lynch because we don't lose anything even if we're wrong.

[Ankamius]

Mastin's entire playstyle this game is basically saying shit that will just pile on more attention to her, and literally has not changed once from when she started posting to when she started getting pressure. That is such a ridiculous thing to argue that I have a hard time believing that it's scum-motivated. She had to have known at that point that most, if not all, of the reason that people were voting her was for that, so... continuing to defend it helps her... how?

it's exactly as I said

it makes her look like she actually did believe it. putting things in perspective, if you're town, the reaction you are having is exactly the reaction that statement was engineered to generate.

Assuming you're correct, do you think she would continue along this strategy when multiple people are seeing through it?

I'm not really sure how I can show my work with #2. The main gist is that the way she bullheaded against the accusation on her only to post reads with explanations, then claim setup shit on top of that doesn't look like scum pushed into a corner.

er

I don't see how this is even remotely a town trait. it might not be "scum backed into a corner", but that doesn't mean "town" at all; not everyone will cave in under pressure as scum, and I sure as hell wouldn't expect mastin would. all of her recent posts have been entirely null to me. why do you think this is more likely to come from town?

Yeah, I'd also expect scum to try to confuse the gamestate as much as possible if they're just going to go down anyway. If she ends up being lynched here and flips scum, all the obvious WIFOM she's bringing up becomes useless. The only way I can see it working out in her favor as well is if the primary accusation against her is false from the start and she ends up getting a free town lynch on the 'buddying' crowd. It's a massive stretch because it's one of those strategies that relies on town acting in a way that is more likely not to happen. That's a hell of a gambit that only wins by not being lynched, but it comes with the drawback that the reasoning comes right back up again later in the game if she gets nightkilled or one of the scumpartner accusees flips scum.

I just don't see how scum-mastin would be able to use this. At all.

[Ankamius]

Assuming you're correct, do you think she would continue along this strategy when multiple people are seeing through it?

as opposed to what?

Something else?

Yeah, I'd also expect scum to try to confuse the gamestate as much as possible if they're just going to go down anyway. If she ends up being lynched here and flips scum, all the obvious WIFOM she's bringing up becomes useless. The only way I can see it working out in her favor as well is if the primary accusation against her is false from the start and she ends up getting a free town lynch on the 'buddying' crowd. It's a massive stretch because it's one of those strategies that relies on town acting in a way that is more likely not to happen. That's a hell of a gambit that only wins by not being lynched, but it comes with the drawback that the reasoning comes right back up again later in the game if she gets nightkilled or one of the scumpartner accusees flips scum.

I just don't see how scum-mastin would be able to use this. At all.

I don't particularly think they consider the night-desperado inventor to be a major threat. they obviously have a scum doc on their team. there's no other explanation for Dan not dying when we shot him.

besides that, scum-mastin here would have a goal of not getting lynched. what is the best way to go about doing that? she needs to look town, no matter the cost; most of her recent posts are null because she does not *intend* on getting lynched. in this situation, either she's town and this huge clusterfuck is genuine, or she's scum faking her town behavior. I don't understand why you think her play here would look different from this if she was scum.

I don't understand how this refutes what I said at all.

[Ankamius]

It could easily be because my brain is a hair's breadth away from just cutting the string and putting me the fuck out for the night, but I literally read that paragraph about 20 times and it still looks like you're trying to piece three different points together and I don't see the connections.

[Ankamius]

That's still gasping for air if your original accusation (the defending thing) is true, since that reasoning's not just going to go away and can easily come back later to bite her in the ass, which is just delaying the inevitable barring the entire town just kind of imploding on itself LoL style.

I still maintain that the only winning situation that can cause as mastin-scum is if her scumteam is predominantly not in the defender list, which I don't think is very likely either (mainly because most of the scum would probably be in the names she didn't mention originally as her initial reads... which is literally only gaiden/beast/time. It's not out of the question since I don't townread any of the three but I have yet to see a single case where my reads were segmented mostly towards null on the scumteam this late in the game, so...).

PEdit: This was towards pieguy's response to me. I'm assuming this is on a new page since GIF spammed.

[Ankamius]

Oh, I got prodded.

I'll post more when I'm less tired.

Pretty much everything that Time (or aronis now I guess) has posted this entire game has made me want their head more this game.

[Ankamius]

or we can lynch Ank for constantly pushing lurkers in spite of the fact I'm pulling up a bunch of evidence to the contrary

Because lurkers are exempt from being scummy.

[Ankamius]

Pretty much everything he's said since the beginning of the game has been null.

[Ankamius]

When we're up to post #5600, #196 counts as the beginning of the game.

[Ankamius]

Sorry for thinking people who have said scummy things much more recently are more likely to be scum, I guess.

I'm not even primarily scumreading them for lurking anyway.

[Ankamius]

Saki: tunneled on lynching haj Day 3, never made any stance towards AD, then claimed today and tried to coast on it.
Gaiden: Stance on the neighbors. Tried to push for both beeboy and AD being scum early and then kept on that thought pattern even after being unable to give any believable reason why he believes so.
Time: Awkward defense of AD only to make a half-hearted fake-looking bus vote.

[Ankamius]

Pedit: Whats with the excessively large votes?

I don't think I've ever seen Dan play protown though.

[Ankamius]

Yeah, the policy vote angle is terrible. Doing that at the expense of literally everything else is not town. The claim does not excuse scum behavior. At all.

So you don't believe Gaiden is trying to throw shit on and discredit beeboy?

EBWOP: I accidently posted instead of copying over. The last post should go where this line is.

[Ankamius]

My main opinion of Titus this game is that she's being bullheaded, which I've seen from her as both alignments. I'll look again later since what I remember is that she had the same type of opinion as I did on the desperado thing, just a looooooot more vocal about it.

[Ankamius]

Completely disagree with pretty much all the meta reasoning (especially PV), but the rest is solid.

VOTE: Birds of Prey

Losing my grip on the game entirely so I'll just sheep.

[Ankamius]

TWINKLE TIME IS OVER FOR MEEEEEEEEE

[Ankamius]

Preemptive permission from my end about scum at being made public.

Anyone who can comment on how to improve my scumplay will get +5 kudos from me. This is the longest I ever lasted in a scumgame so it should be easier than my other scumgames.

[Ankamius]

Preemptive permission from my end about scum at being made public.

Anyone who can comment on how to improve my scumplay will get +5 kudos from me. This is the longest I ever lasted in a scumgame so it should be easier than my other scumgames.

You were lurking too much and your posts were too snarky/satirical/sarcastic.

Post more, but make it seem like contributions. Should get you by under the radar for most bad towns.

Post amount/lurking is a playstyle thing. It's pretty common for me to ebb and flow in most games I play.

Rest is point taken.