NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[PeregrineV]

For all these protective PR claims, ain't nobody being protected.

Reinoe's broken ass claim makes the least sense of the 3.


VOTE: reinoe

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger.

Misrep is bad, yo.

I didn't say it, you did. What is being misrepresented?

[PeregrineV]

Does it make since to have a Godfather in this game?

I think the role sucks. Not sure how often it gets used.

If Titus was wrong, think it's more likely reinoe is SK than GF, since II on the SK is more common (based on feelings, not actual game data).

[PeregrineV]

For all these protective PR claims, ain't nobody being protected.

Reinoe's broken ass claim makes the least sense of the 3.


VOTE: reinoe

I think speculation is weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger.

Misrep is bad, yo.

I didn't say it, you did. What is being misrepresented?

Neighborhood make-up was being discussed there.

If you are going to quote me, then use the entire post since you like to twist shit.

Still applies. Your speculating that since the doc WAS the doc, reinoe is lying. Weak grounds to advocate a lynch, or even point a finger, especially given the Titus-clear on reinoe.

You want to speculate reinoe=SK, then go ahead, but you need to give more/better reasons.

[PeregrineV]

As has already been pointed out, reinoe's bs claim out of nowhere is what gave the wagon wheels.

Show me the timeline of reinoe claim and the buildup of votes. Because the VC looks like Majiffy & gameplay are the "wheels" of which you speak.

[PeregrineV]

Godfather with 1 cop in 21 p game? Pls

Nothing more than a situational goon.

[PeregrineV]

I've been looking at the vote counts and one thing that jumps out at me is Shaddowez has been on every town lynch wagon but not on the scum wagon. For that one he didn't vote. I think he deserves some attention.

Like a vote?

[PeregrineV]

Oh, I so do. Stop accusing me of scummy things, Psyche, you're flailing.

Hello all. If you think I'm reading 178 pages, you're laughably wrong. The last five pages, maybe. The last ten if I'm SUPER bored.

So...I'd like summaries and scumreads from people, please.

Hey Pine, welcome back!

Neighborhoods

marquis/

titus-cop

/

pv

/

texcat

tn5421

/

aero

/

gameplay (Titus cop result)

/skybird

Mirhawk-tracker

/

Aegor-bodyguard?

/

Oka-doc

/Shadowez

Not in hood

Josh

reinoe (Titus cop result)

notscience
Pine

Elyse
TSO

Majiffy

House
Psyche

There is an SK who finally killed scum last night (TSO, texcat, Titus,

Majiffy

)

marquis claimed masons with Psyche. psyche did not cc.

Titus results are reinoe town, gameplay town

reinoe also claims X-shot protective of some sort

If you think scum are present in each hood (I do), then that leaves Marquis (my PoV) and Shaddow as scum, with the SK amoung you, notsicence, house and psyche.

If one hood is scum-free, then another scum in the outside hood group.

start there.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote

No, that's just stupid. Scum wouldn't likely be that utterly reckless. Majiffy, get your head out of your ass and tell me who's scum. Turns out three negatives make a positive

Edit: Goddamn, stop moving so quickly. I can't breathe here. Sup, PV

Majiffy still dead.

If your not the SK, then Marquis could be the SK, which would mean Shadow could be hood-scum and 2 not-hood.
If Shadow is not-scum, but Marquis is SK, then 3 of the 4 not-hood are scum. thats seems too high.

Skybird not scum because I don;t think 2 scum in the same hood.

I also doubt SK in a hood, but that's mostly because NRG didn't like that idea at one time.

[PeregrineV]

PV, what's the scum case on Majiffy? I'm leaning towards it being wrong, but then you corroborated my first instinct

Mod confirmed scum.

[PeregrineV]

I've been town in a 2 person hood with an SK in it

Review Notes to me:

@SK/neighbour.

Suppose you are mafia in a 5p mafia team and your shot on that neighbour doesn't go through, but there is some other kill. What lynch are you going to push in the next couple of days?

It's not unbalanced as such, it's just in the current meta somewhat likely to direct scum onto the SK, and seen that the SK's job isn't easy to start with you might make the game less fun for him, for no really good reason other then it seems cool to have three allignments in a neighbourhood. You could do it, I just fear it won't be as fun as you'd imagine it to be.

[PeregrineV]

Ohhhh. Similarity of avatars between Majiffy and notscience confused me. All reactions to and references to Majiffy were regarding notscience

notscience has 400+ posts. Perhaps he could describe his game impact first before his lynch.

[PeregrineV]

Ohhhh. Similarity of avatars between Majiffy and notscience confused me. All reactions to and references to Majiffy were regarding notscience

notscience has 400+ posts. Perhaps he could describe his game impact first before his lynch.

That's actually what I was requesting. His reluctance to help me understand made me think scum, but then the stubbornness and flippancy appeared too reckless for scum. Notscience is sticking around.

We on the same page now?

sort of. But I almost ALWAYS want to lynch notscience. Hard to overcome that bias.

[PeregrineV]

If Marquis claimed masons with Psyche, and they are not both scum, why would Psyche not have cced?

Ask Psyche.

If they are both scum, then that's four scum (which is the assumption you've been going off of), leaving mine a scum-free neighborhood (as proposed as possible way back when),

It could be 5 scum.
20 players =5 scum normally
21 players (with a known SK), either 5 scum +SK (ouch!) or 4 scum + SK (what I've been assuming, but the mod can presume more scum would be crosskilled and have put 5 instead).

and the SK any one of the rest of us, again assuming they're II. However, I'm disinclined to imagine that they're both scum, mainly because of this post:

3575

[PeregrineV]

A non-countered mason claim is an automatic chain lynch if one is scum, and for another now-confirmed scum to have listed them both as obvscum makes me a little too leery for my liking. On the other hand, if you're so insistent that there's scum in every hood, and Marquis is town, that leaves you as scum. Or would your thoughts all of a sudden change?

Depending on the makeup, you lose the ability to lynch the "masons" in the next day or 2 (I think).

As for confirmed town, the claim has been there for 3 days(?) yet scum nor the SK have any interest in killing "confirmed town". Thinking rationally, this will come back to bite them in the next day or 2, so they really should have taken care of that sooner.

But, they don't really have to, because they are not masons.

I don't insist, but since I'm town, you think Marquis and Psyche are town, you claim to be town, reinoe and gameplay are clear, you should clarify who is scum and who is SK so that future mason generations can use the seed of your scumreads to raise proper-voting townies.

Pine
House
notscience
Skybird

[PeregrineV]

pv's always been one to go on about one thing and then just drop off of the face of the earth until he's prodded
and that's what the case on him seems to amount to
i don't have any reason to townread him, but the cases on him seem based on a bad premise

I have 214 posts. Quote my fluffy ones.

[PeregrineV]

pine can you vote pv please

we are the last 2 people and have been for a while, in an originally 4 person neighborhood, where the others flipped town
and i had some good points on pv day 1 and i can't remember them all but i do remember pv in our neighborhood saying he wanted to scumhunt within our neighborhood but when someone in the neighborhood was actually a wagon or suspected he was against it- like he was trying to keep us around him to make process of elimination harder

Yeah, that would be the texcat town wagon I refused to get on.

[PeregrineV]

Btw, I'm a little confused by the talk of Masons. Can you two confirm your mason claims for me? I srsly do not have the patience for archive diving in this clusterfuck of a thread

They have yet to do it.

[PeregrineV]

SK HAS to be one of the following players.
MuffinMan
Majiffy
Peregrine
notscience
Shaddowez
RoyalApe
.

Re-reading Mirhawk's Iso he was chainsaw defending OkaPoka pretty hard. I suspect that he tracked OkaPoka and knew.

Also I suspect mirhawk tracked a bunch of people and since the SK is killing every night the above are people he had not yet tracked.

Interestingly enough. The list that Mirhawk presents here is full of the scummiest people in the game.

--->Peregrine, RoyalApe (Skybird), notscience<---
Two scum in here.

Hey peoples, you know that one player that everyone keeps calling scum but never gets lynched, but then at the end of the game they turn out to be scum? That's PeregrineV. He keeps getting called scum but never gets lynched.

VOTE: PeregrineV

When I flip scum, I'll nominate you for a Title change to

MENSA Scumhunter

.

[PeregrineV]

I don't have a better scum read right now

Hey peoples, you know that one player that everyone keeps calling scum but never gets lynched, but then at the end of the game they turn out to be scum? That's PeregrineV. He keeps getting called scum but never gets lynched.

Actually, I was thinking something along these lines earlier tonight. Out of curiosity, I did a VCA, focusing on Peregrine. I found some interesting results - the first, overarching point is that he's

never

been on a wagon that ended up in a lynch. Here's the breakdown:

D1 - Starts with an RVS vote on Elyse (conftown), then moves to Psyche (probtown - Mason) as the second vote. He then moves to tn (conftown), then moves to RoyalApe where he stays through Aegor's lynch (conftown).
D2 - Doesn't vote at all through Aero's lynch (confscum), and gives me a hard time about not being on the Aero wagon in 3812.
D3 - His first vote of the day is on Marquis (probtown - Mason), then moves to a vote on me ({conf}town) where he stays through tn's lynch (conftown).
D4 - First vote of the day is again on Marquis, again where he stays until the Oka lynch (conftown).

He hasn't placed a vote on anybody that hasn't turned up town yet, and since day one has pretty much been planting his vote. Additionally, the people he's been voting haven't generally had wagons forming, so he's able to keep them there without risk of a townie lynch. He also has plausible deniability of never lynching a townie.

After this review and my last post regarding his scum-location, I'm convinced.

VOTE: Pere

Pretty much be posting cool pics I find, to enhance my enjoyment of this game. I've pretty much said everything a few times, and quoting myself and pointing out scumminess doesn't seem to be working. I'll entertain serious requests though.

[PeregrineV]

I looked over his ISO but not super close. Nothing really jumped out at me, could you point out his scumminess please?

Sheeping shaddowez because I like his thought process (overall, not specifically the post above). He's my strongest town read.

VOTE: PerV

[PeregrineV]

Oh pere is at L-1. Should I hammer?

You got to call me town first.

[PeregrineV]

Hey peoples, you know that one player that everyone keeps calling scum but never gets lynched, but then at the end of the game they turn out to be scum? That's PeregrineV. He keeps getting called scum but never gets lynched.

Actually, I was thinking something along these lines earlier tonight. Out of curiosity, I did a VCA, focusing on Peregrine. I found some interesting results - the first, overarching point is that he's

never

been on a wagon that ended up in a lynch. Here's the breakdown:

D1 - Starts with an RVS vote on Elyse (conftown), then moves to Psyche (probtown - Mason) as the second vote. He then moves to tn (conftown), then moves to RoyalApe where he stays through Aegor's lynch (conftown).
D2 - Doesn't vote at all through Aero's lynch (confscum), and gives me a hard time about not being on the Aero wagon in 3812.
D3 - His first vote of the day is on Marquis (probtown - Mason), then moves to a vote on me ({conf}town) where he stays through tn's lynch (conftown).
D4 - First vote of the day is again on Marquis, again where he stays until the Oka lynch (conftown).

He hasn't placed a vote on anybody that hasn't turned up town yet, and since day one has pretty much been planting his vote. Additionally, the people he's been voting haven't generally had wagons forming, so he's able to keep them there without risk of a townie lynch. He also has plausible deniability of never lynching a townie.

After this review and my last post regarding his scum-location, I'm convinced.

VOTE: Pere

The only flaw I see with this is if I am remembering correctly, most of D2 happened on the weekend. At least that is when the Aero wagon really took off. PV has mentioned already that he is LA on the weekends in #3 at the bottom of his posts.

Your not doing yourself any good. You're pretty much scheduled to be the next mislynch.

[PeregrineV]

and even ignoring the neighborhood distribution
pv is likely scum due to his attitude about lynching out of the neighborhood- a contrast between votes and previously stated actions, in which he said he was ok with hunting out of the neighborhood earlier but when it started to get serious, he completely backed off

Well, in our hood, I'm town, Titus town and texcat town. That leaves you as scum. If you think there is a pure hood, then it has to be ours or Mirhawk. Since you are making no effort to scumhunt me in our hood, you know I'm town and don't need to scumhunt me. You knowing I'm town and pushing my lynch (except when it was time for the doc to go yesterday) means you are scum.

That's pretty much my contention the whole game, since the "mason claim".

Oh yeah, cool pic.

[PeregrineV]

also once we started to seriously consider pv as a lynch option he finally got fired up/active to fight off people accusing him, then faded away soon after
once i open up with a vote on him today, with reinoe following, he suddenly starts to be active again
that's a scum level of game involvement

Pretty much the same level of involvement. So you are pretty much making this up as you go.

The only reason I can think you want to do that is to get Pine on board.....? He probably won't read back. Might mean he is town.

[PeregrineV]

^ not to mention majiffy's posts about pv are very limited- only interacted basically to say "no, vote tree/marquis", always downplaying the idea of a pv lynch in comparison to other lynches, and never directly gave any sort of read about pv while joking around with him, which signals a comfortable scumpartner interaction

Yeah, if he talks to me too much then I'll figure out he is scum.

Majiffy also had no interest in lynching Masons.

Vote: Marquis

OK, Jiffy, let's see money where your mouth is.

Get it past 4 votes and I'm in.

You won't vote your top scumread unless someone else runs them up to more than four votes for you?

Needs to be a viable wagon to consider leaving a viable wagon.

Or are you new here?

[PeregrineV]

Oh, forgot my unvote.


VOTE: PerV

Still only 2nd miracle.

[PeregrineV]

pv's always been one to go on about one thing and then just drop off of the face of the earth until he's prodded
and that's what the case on him seems to amount to
i don't have any reason to townread him, but the cases on him seem based on a bad premise

I have 214 posts. Quote my fluffy ones.

wat

When I post, I most of the time have something to say (or repeat). So, your attempt to characterize me as active lurking is pretty <incorrect>.

[PeregrineV]

Oh, forgot my unvote.


VOTE: PerV

Still only 2nd miracle.

If I'm supposed to understand what you are saying, I don't.

You were already "convinced" to vote me. The unvote doesn't indicate you had doubt about the case on me, it's merely you trying to avoid looking as scummy when I flip town.

So, your revote doesn't count as a "Miracle revelation" about my alignment that scum needs to have in order to justify their vote.

[PeregrineV]

Give shadow a chance to ignore 4520, then someone can decide that this day has gone on long enough.

[PeregrineV]

Oh, forgot my unvote.


VOTE: PerV

Still only 2nd miracle.

If I'm supposed to understand what you are saying, I don't.

You were already "convinced" to vote me. The unvote doesn't indicate you had doubt about the case on me, it's merely you trying to avoid looking as scummy when I flip town.

So, your revote doesn't count as a "Miracle revelation" about my alignment that scum needs to have in order to justify their vote.

idc how I look. I know my alignment.

So do I, and have been using that knowledge all game.

reinoe had a good idea, then abandoned it. So I carried it out to give the wagon time before somebody ninja hammered, as I have seen happen before.

What was that? Did you ISO me?

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV is on my list and (I think) is at L-1, and is attacking the wagon on himself rather than pursuing an alternative. I'm ready to lynch him, but I'd prefer to have another day or so to solidify my thoughts, as I'm a good candidate for a NK. Consider this preparedness to hammer. Do we have a claim from PV? I'd also like to hear one before the end.

I've pursued lots of alternatives, and gave my reads and reasons.

If you beleive the mason claim and cop innocents, then you believe

In 1 neighborhoods of 4 people that are all town
Then your looking for 2-3 scum and an SK in
notscience
House
Skybird
Shadow

If you think scum has 4 players, then one of the above is town, the rest are scum of some sort.

If you think Shadow is town, then The Aeronaut hood has 2 scum in it, and there were 2 hoods (masonrys in fact) with no scum.

This is all from your PoV.

Did I miss anything?

Spoiler:

Neighborhoods

marquis

/

titus-cop

/

pv

/

texcat

tn5421

/

aero

/

gameplay (Titus cop result)

/skybird

Mirhawk-tracker

/

Aegor-bodyguard?

/

Oka-doc

/Shadowez

Not in hood

Josh

reinoe (Titus cop result)

notscience
Pine

Elyse
TSO

Majiffy

House

Psyche

If you can confirm this before I flip, scum will thank you. if you cannot, then you need to read and think.

Your choice.

[PeregrineV]

i'm not saying that you active lurk
im saying that your activity patterns aren't a good reason to lynch you

There is no case, just scum and bad town.

4545 applies almost verbatim to you, too, except you have Pine as an option. Confirm that it represents your opinion. You know, in case you get killed.

[PeregrineV]

I am very, very wary of trying to outguess the mod, especially given that the very first post of the thread cautions that there is a "twist" to the setup.

So yes, I very much do believe that a 4-Town neighborhood is possible. Personally, in my list of four people, I'm guessing two scum. As I said, Gameplay's SK-hunting is a huge red flag, and if no Godfather flips from the remainder, he's a good option in LyLo

And Shadow is town? That would mean 2 4-Town neighborhoods.

and 2 mafiascum and 1 SK.

[PeregrineV]

I am very, very wary of trying to outguess the mod, especially given that the very first post of the thread cautions that there is a "twist" to the setup.

So yes, I very much do believe that a 4-Town neighborhood is possible. Personally, in my list of four people, I'm guessing two scum. As I said, Gameplay's SK-hunting is a huge red flag, and if no Godfather flips from the remainder, he's a good option in LyLo

If you want to call gameplay the Godfather and not the II-SK, then why not renioe the

third

"claimed town protective role" who is also cop cleared?

[PeregrineV]

Also, the numbers I'm looking at suggest 4 Mafia, 1 SK or 5 Mafia 1 Vig. Also remotely possible 2 teams of 2, teams of 3 are remote at this stage

the stabbed flavor says SK

[PeregrineV]

Gameplay is SK-hunting

As I said, I am wholly unwilling to engage in the accounting of Neighborhood numbers. When your mod tells you straight-up that there's a twist, you chuck out all preconceptions

PE: I agree, stabbing usually means SK or Vig. Usually. I concur that the most likely numbers are 4+SK, I just refuse to take that as gospel

There are only so many twists that can occur. You can'y use that as a reason not to scumhunt.

Neighborhoods

marquis

/

titus-cop

/

pv

/

texcat

tn5421

/

aero

/

gameplay (Titus cop result)

/skybird

Mirhawk-tracker

/

Aegor-bodyguard?

/

Oka-doc

/Shadowez

Not in hood

Josh

reinoe (Titus cop result)

notscience
Pine

Elyse
TSO

Majiffy

House

Psyche

[PeregrineV]

I'm kinda digging PerV's interactions.

Granted, I can't follow a lot of the theory, but this feels more like progress than I've seen for a while.

I'm conflicted on his alignment and that's not good enough for a vote at this stage, or so I hear.

I still think shaddowez is town, though.

UNVOTE:

it's simple. You have to think there is an SK and 2 or 3 scum left.

You believe masons or you do not.

You believe cop-clears or you do not.

That leaves an ever smaller pool of possible scum.

If, for some reason, you do not think that pool contains scum, then one of your previously held beliefs is wrong.

I want to see thoughts on paper as each player THINKS.

[PeregrineV]

The only flaw I see with this is if I am remembering correctly, most of D2 happened on the weekend. At least that is when the Aero wagon really took off. PV has mentioned already that he is LA on the weekends in #3 at the bottom of his posts.

Your not doing yourself any good. You're pretty much scheduled to be the next mislynch.

It's all good. Honestly, I'm in way over my head and town is much better off going into LyLo without me in the mix. But hey, if you don't jump in the deep end, how do you ever learn to swim?

Then let's hear you scumreads and townreads. We'll slot them in their spots, and go from there.

[PeregrineV]

i'm not saying that you active lurk
im saying that your activity patterns aren't a good reason to lynch you

There is no case, just scum and bad town.

Hey phone posting. It's been like 2 days and six deaths since the last time you ignored what dead people had to say. Just like last time when a significant number of dead people fingered Aero as scum a significant number of dead people fingered you as scum.

How do you explain all these dead people calling you and aero scum?

Who?

[PeregrineV]

Updates, because I like to color code.

@House,

check out the all-town wagon on texcat!

Fun with VCA

Vote Count 1.17

texcat

(L1):

Aegor

,

reinoe

,

Mirhawk, tn5421

, Marquis, House,

OkaPoka

,

Elyse

,

T S O

, Psyche

OkaPoka

(3):

Aeronaut

, Skybird,

Gameplay506

Marquis (3):

Josh_B

,

Majiffy

,

texcat

Skybird (1):

PeregrineV

notscience (1):

Shaddowez

House (1):

notscience

Psyche (1):

Titus

Not Voting (1):

Pine

~ With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to lynch!

~ Deadline expires 9/3/14, @8am central.

Vote Count 1.19

Aegor

(11):

Pine,

Elyse

, Psyche,

Josh_B, texcat, OkaPoka

, Shaddowez,

Titus, Mirhawk,

reinoe

, notscience

texcat

(5):

Aegor, tn5421

, House,

T S O

, Marquis

OkaPoka

(3):

Aeronaut

, Skybird,

Gameplay506

Marquis (1):

Majiffy

Skybird (1):

PeregrineV

Not Voting (0):

~ With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to lynch!

~ Deadline expires 9/3/14, @8am central.

[PeregrineV]

More!

So here is texcat at L-1.
One hood is bolded.
One is italicized
The last is underlined.

Once Shadow and Mirhawk of the scum-free neighborhood give us their reads, then we can see who is scum on and off the 2 town wagons of day1.

Vote Count 1.17

texcat

(L1):

Aegor

,

reinoe

,

Mirhawk

,

tn5421

,

Marquis

, House,

OkaPoka

, Elyse

,

T S O

, Psyche

OkaPoka

(3):

Aeronaut

,

Skybird

,

Gameplay506

Marquis

(3):

Josh_B

,

Majiffy

,

texcat

Skybird

(1):

PeregrineV

notscience (1):

Shaddowez

House (1): notscience
Psyche (1):

Titus

Not Voting (1):

Pine

~ With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to lynch!

[PeregrineV]

Where Psyche was able to catch Majiffy scum!!

Good times, good times....

oh majiffy is scum

it's going to be hard to lynch him though :/

i told you i told you i told you

You did, way back here on page 4---> 98

And, you did it in 3 posts!!

eads and reached the wrong conclusion before, so there is that.

Only

town

time will tell.

You're not Zabiano Domingo Rodriguez.

Why do you have his avatar?

Zabriel

Nvm though, apparently just aesthetically similar.

can we get to playing now

No we have to jerk off for 20 more pages don't you know how this game works these days?

[PeregrineV]

@Pine

- This was when Mirhawk was still alive, but closest thing I have for a Shadow scumread.

Majiffy

- I'll be honest. You and I haven't interacted much this game, and I've been flip flopping your read pretty much every time I read the game. At the time I posted that I was in a time crunch, and the bits that I read that night had me thinking you were sounding a bit scummy. I was very much not a fan of your early game, and at present I'm failing to see your case on Mirhawk, outside of thinking there's a scum in each neighborhood. Do you have any other reasoning for that, because based on interaction in the hood, and his game here, I don't get much of a scum vibe from him.

As for the PV wagon, I'm torn. I'm not entirely convinced either way, though I am starting to lean scum.

The biggest thing driving me right now is I think PV's flip will give us quite a bit of information based on his wagon.

I'd actually prefer a tn lynch, but with less than three days it looks like it's between PV and Mir. Unless I see an extremely good case on Mir, I'm sticking with my previous statement of not voting for him.

Since my vote should be somewhere, I'll stick it here for now

VOTE: Pere

Yech.


We've had 2 large town wagons and a scum wagon, and I have yet to see you try and glean any information from any of those lynches, so your bolded statement above seems very disingenuous. This, along with that whole "I don't know if Pere is town or scum pretending to be town" from 3623 makes this the 2nd cringe-worthy thing from you this gameday.
Looking at the Aero iso, you have 2-3 mentions in passing by him.
Your own views are against Aero lynch day1, but not because you think he is town. You went from 1613 (I don't like Aero) to 2032 (Not convinced Aero is scum). Day2 you are around but manage to not be on the wagon.
Lastly, I kind of liked your early posting as town for the same reason I liked Aero's as town. And we all know that went horribly wrong.

Congrats, you can be the scum in your hood!

[PeregrineV]

I like this one where Aero rationalizes both Psyche and Marquis/tree as town (959).

preferred lynches:

pv (probably the scum in our hood, seemed too informed about gamestate / nothing here and trying to collect townreads in our hood / earlier trying not to narrow down our hood until i pushed on him)
tn (feeling the scum meta, similarly to recent open whatevernumber that feirei+caled just modded)

mirhawk place your vote on pv because they're prob a scumteam anyway

Doh!!

Since I had Aero's ISO open to look at Mirhawk and Shadow, I decided to check into tree/you.
So far the count is 6 or so "I'm not sure tree is scum", with 2+ counts of "tree is town/VI"

Then this fun one.

Psyche started off extremely not helpful, with distractions and the such. However, he has lately come to his senses and is one of the people questioning the tree votes. I'll talk about my exact thoughts about the tree wagon below.

Tree, everybody, is not scum. People who are lynching him because he's a VI, then if that's the way you vote, I guess that's how you vote. I don't agree with it at all, and I don't think we should be lynching him. However, it's those that claim that your voting him because he's scum that I'm interested in. Let's take a look.

And TSO's 1103

And this from you.

I've been a major part of trying to talk Titus down from the Aero lynch, moving discussion and thoughts away from "there must be scum in every neighborhood", and so on.

You think tn and Aero were scum in the same hood.....

[PeregrineV]

i didn't think majiffy was scum on pg 4

Did you click the link to post 98?

[PeregrineV]

yeah

You voted him and said "not a town mindset".

Sounds like you think he is scum.

[PeregrineV]

OK, I've been reviewing a lot of the thread trying to find answers for some of my questions. When I first replaced in, I commented on the mason thing. I went back and read Marquis' ISO because I wanted to see where/why he claimed. That claim came in post 3155. The interesting thing to me is Marquis didn't have any votes on him. Psyche had two votes on him at the time which was no where near enough votes for a lynch IMO. Why would Marquis claim for Psyche and himself that early? And why does Psyche state that he will let Marquis handle all the "dialog concerning masonry"? 3448

One other thing I noticed while reviewing is in post 3179 Alina/House mentioned that Marquis was sheriff cleared. The only cop I know of in the game was Titus. I've gone through her ISO twice now and don't see anything that clears Marquis.

Alina/House corrected themselves in post 3180.

[PeregrineV]

More horrible speculation.

Looked over early tree/psyche stuff. Tree does declaratives that psyche is town, psyche said tree is town, but usually with qualifiers ("because _______"). If they are scum together, then it was planned pre-game, because it can be seen seeded throughout early posts.

However, if this is somehow true, then that would make the scum in our hood Titus. Since I think Titus is fully capable of fakeclaiming BP macho cop as scum and running with it as far and fast as possible, then Marquis as mason would be doubly vexing. To this end, Titus shoudl be lynched in the next few days if she is still alive, if for no reason but to confirm her innocents.

Outside possibility of Marquis and Titus both town, but then we would be an all-town neighborhood. And then, if one, why not two?

Uggh.

Vote: Shadow

[PeregrineV]

PV, you keep bringing up your neighborhood analysis. If we go with your assumption of one scum in each hood, then the lynch pool should be you, Marquis, and Shaddowez with Shaddow being the obvious lynch. If you feel you are right about this, why is your vote on house instead of Shaddowez?

Do not like this post. At all. It latches onto the assumption of 1 scum in each hood, which I feel is a very, very dangerous assumption to make. It sounds like exactly what the scum would want us to think.

I feel it is just as likely as anything for there to be all-town neighborhoods as anything.

This discussion has stagnated. I'm ready to move on. Does anyone have a substantial case to make that hasn't been brought up since I joined? I'm especially looking for analyses of Shaddowez and Skybird. I have a hunch of at least one scum between them, but not sure who. Links to previous cases are fine.

The thing is I don't agree with 1 scum in each hood. But that seems to be the theory that PV is pushing. And if that is what he feels is correct, why isn't he voting for shaddow?

It's pretty much stated he's not getting lynched. And I pretty much want it to be me. I reached my maximum usefulness and now I'm just quoting myself because scum won't listen and town ain't listening.

I'd mostly prefer House to be lynched at this point. And then I'd like the SK to clear up the "Masons", then town can take the loss, or they can get lucky and maybe win.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: House

[PeregrineV]

replacing out

i gotta learn to do this sooner
like infinitely sooner

[PeregrineV]

Hmm. The all-Town wagons are far more concerning than all-Town Neighborhoods. The former doesn't really happen, the latter can be a design quirk.

I'm going to take a big deep breath and dive into the Psyche/Marquis ISOs, see if they ever listed each other as scum. Masons might not buddy up to one another, but they'll never suspect one another. Scum that later fake claim Masons will probably have some bussing at some point in 184 pages

The hints, etc. happen pretty early, imo. It would've had to have been planned way early, if not pre-game.

But, read it and let me know what you see otherwise.

[PeregrineV]

If the "masons" haven't confirmed after ask this time had passed, why are they still alive?

There should have been a race between scum and town slaughtering them... scum for conf town and town for hesitance to confirm.

Yet here they are...

That's how it seems to me, anyway. Am I wrong?

They are useless and worthless. They have more value to scum alive than dead, if they are real.

Go ISO Psyche/tree/Marquis together and give your opinions for/against their existence.

pedit: Or not.

[PeregrineV]

Otherwise I'm willing to ride their conf-town status to endgame.

Ummmm, they are

not

masons......

[PeregrineV]

Me on me-

i just checked our qt and well lol

PV in QT: "We need to hunt for the scum in here and play this like a mini game of mafia"
me in QT: "Well in that case it's probably texcat. you know what, I'll go for his lynch so we can try and become a mason thread"
PV in QT: *immediate post after* "Hmmm wait, I wonder if Wake would have

2 neighborhoods and 2 scumteams? or 3 neighborhoods and 1 scumteam?

PV in thread when a member of the neighborhood is about to be lynched: "wait! no lynching texcat, I think he's town!"

*also apparently has marquis and titus as town*

me: ... ... ...

apart from the sudden 180 when lynching out of the neighborhood became an option, this:

line 3: this was posted on the 29th. pv seemed pretty damn certain there are 4 topics/hoods. when was the exact number of neighborhoods revealed in thread, if ever?

Let me fix that for you.

I think having 2 neighborhoods (4- ours, 5-the other one) made up of all town would be funny and cool, because paranoia and such.
I think the Normal Review Board would not allow that.

If there is one scumteam, there may be an all-town neighborhood, but I doubt it, because the Normal Review Board would probably not allow it.

Likely there would be one scum in each.

If there is 2 scumteams, there may be at least one scum in each, but I don't think 2 from each team in each hood. There may be an all-town hood, but I doubt it, because the Normal Review Board would probably not allow it.

Feel free to disagree, because I don't recall you doing so in the actual neighborhood.

And I also mentioned that day-1 only that scumhunting in the neighboorhood would be more effective, since we have daychat and scum does not. This also seemed to kill all discussion.
Weird, no?

so why do people think i am scum?

Because you are totally scummy. But, if you fake a PR claim real quick, we won't lynch you today.

Claim doc was we can put down Oka.

why

Marquis claimed mason with you. Reinoe believes it.

The game's 15:3:3 Fifteen Townies, three Red Scum, three Blue Scum.

Amazingly, the mod has informed us in the neighborhood that this is

NOT

the game setup, and that all given set-up information is in the OP, and yet you have continued to push this.

Any particular reason why?

Pere - Do you not believe the mason claim? I'm going to guess not since you have the largest wagon right now, and your vote is the sole vote on one of the possible masons. Could you please explain why?

Well, where to start....

Why claim it now, when there is not benefit to town?

Plus, Marquis is scum as all get-out.

Psyche has not confirmed it. The post you think about quoting Pysche where they did confirm it is about as dodgy as all get-out.

Let's see why.

Psyche scum- Marquis town-

Psyche could be wary of Marquis trying to trick him. If he says yes, does Marquis close the trap on him and get him lynched? But, Marquis hasn't been actually scumhunting, so what's Psyche afraid of? Don;t think this is the current siutaiton.

Psyche town- Marquis town

- Psyche could be wary of Marquis trying to trick him. But, it seems town Psyche would use this opportunity to determine if Marquis is scum trying to trick him, or town trying to trick scum. Pscyhe instead continues to demur to Marquis, while not interacting with him (or anyone else). Marquis in turn is either really sure on Psyche alignment (why, FGS?), or is trying to determine his alignment. Since I see no Marquis Psyche interaction, I have a hard time believing this scenario.

Psyche town- Marquis scum

- Marquis picked Pscyhe as a pliable human shield who would not counterclaim him because.....???? Psyche, unsure of Marquis alignment, would try to determine Marquis alignment through any sort of interaction, to either out the fakeclaim, or to find himself a strong townread (however incorrect it may be). However, Psyche is not doing that. And Marquis is making no pretense of interacting with Psyche.

Psyche scum- Marquis scum

- Marquis on a whim figured he'd fish the fakeclaim out there to see what sort of traction/reaction it would get. If it derailed the Psyche push (it did), then all the better. Psyche, not wanting to out 2 scummembers at once, does as much as possible to leave the confirmation open-ended and ambiguous. This gives some wriggle room for the other should one be lynched/stabbed. This requires Psyche soft-confirming it, and deferring it to Marquis, allowing plausible deniability (claiming one of the 2 scenarios above) should Marquis die. Marquis in turn is minimizing involving Psyche, and will claim reactiontest when Psyche flips scum. Based on both players current bahvoirs, I strongly suspect this one.

So, yeah, neighbor-masons?

From my Normal review thread a long time ago

I think it might not be the best idea to put the sk as neighbour. It has been meta (and no clue if that's still the case) to shoot your neighbours as mafia. Is okayish if it's town-mafia, but for the SK, who's job is hard enough anyway, it can just be way sucky. You might be directing scum onto him here.

[PeregrineV]

NEVER FUCKING MIND

Doesn't it suck to do all that work and then be wrong?

But, i'm kind of used to it.

[PeregrineV]

After sleeping on it, I have to walk back my no ii's statement just a bit. I don't think we are dealing with a Godfather situation but I feel there's a good chance the SK is ii. My newb gut feeling is having two roles that are ii is a bit too favorable to the dark side.

Hmm. I'm very seriously considering whether this is a newbie scumslip. Here, Skybird is taking it as a given that there's no Godfather on the scum team, something that Town has hotly debated and is trying to figure out. I'm not seeing a good reason for Skybird to assume otherwise.

I'm also thinking that if there's scum between {Psyche, Marquis} it's Psyche. Fakeclaiming Masons with a Townie is practically suicide from a scum perspective, but a plausible (if asinine) Town gambit. Psyche's waffling on confirming or denying the Mason claim looks scummy to me in light of recent revelations. It looks like a deer in the headlights "Oh shit what do I do here, is this a trap?" response.

At this point, biggest suspects are PV, Psyche, Skybird. House also feels

off

to me, but that could just be the awkward middle experience point he's at. Would be good with any of those three lynches today, House and Gameplay on the back burner depending on flips

Glad to see you're scumreading me still. Tells me you haven't been taken over by the pod people yet.

If either Pscyhe or Marquis are scum with me, then pushing the fact they are fake masons is stupid scum-play and would be against my win-con. So think again.

Marquis needs to answer Skybird, since Psyche is the one outting it. There is less scum incentive to out it at this point, since 95% of the players are buying it.

[PeregrineV]

I'm fine with not lynching either marquis or psyche. The SK is literally playing against their wincon by not taking care of it. Unless SK is either Marquis or Psyche. But then mafia are playing against their wincon by not sorting it tonight. Either way scum are not playing to their wincon by letting it slide. Let's lynch PV.

Why don't you go with the fact I'm town and pretend you live night 5 and it's day6. then, scumhunt based on whatever criteria you are currently using, and give us your reads and reasons.

[PeregrineV]

Anyway I think there's too much interference taking place on behalf of PeregrineV for him not to be scum. Why is he so hard to wagon and why was TN5421 so easy to wagon. Majiffy also impossible to wagon.

Because tn5421 gave less of a shit than I do?

I don't recall you trying to wagon Majiffy, or your read on him. What will I find if I go look?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote
Vote: Peregrine V

Well, the lynch I want isn't going through, I'll compromise for my second pick

Skybird, I've been having nagging gut feelings all day suggesting that you might be newTown with a really, really scummy-looking playstyle. Let's get a claim from PV, then lynch him

PV, you're at L-1 with lots of support for a hammer, claim and let's move on

Town Neighbor

Vote: PeregrineV

Please for the love of all that is holy, let this be the hammer.

[PeregrineV]

If not, then up to lynch pretty much anyone at this point. Town will only win this via miracle.

Vote: House

[PeregrineV]

@Wake- V/LA Oct 24-27

[PeregrineV]

If not, then up to lynch pretty much anyone at this point. Town will only win this via miracle.

Vote: House

Why would you lament nobody listening to the dead and then proceed to never listen to the dead? Can you explain the town motivation for that?

I'm dead, so you don't have to listen to me now.

You are arguing just to argue. You haven't debated anything I've actually said.

[PeregrineV]

Anyway I think there's too much interference taking place on behalf of PeregrineV for him not to be scum. Why is he so hard to wagon and why was TN5421 so easy to wagon. Majiffy also impossible to wagon.

Because tn5421 gave less of a shit than I do?

I don't recall you trying to wagon Majiffy, or your read on him. What will I find if I go look?

I wasn't going to mock this post but it's such utter bullshit that I couldn't resist. Did you ever look to see if I called maji scum? Tell me what you found?

Don't really care. You're either II of some sort or bad town.

[PeregrineV]

Anyway I think there's too much interference taking place on behalf of PeregrineV for him not to be scum. Why is he so hard to wagon and why was TN5421 so easy to wagon. Majiffy also impossible to wagon.

Because tn5421 gave less of a shit than I do?

I don't recall you trying to wagon Majiffy, or your read on him. What will I find if I go look?

I wasn't going to mock this post but it's such utter bullshit that I couldn't resist. Did you ever look to see if I called maji scum? Tell me what you found?

Don't really care. You're either II of some sort or bad town.

I have my good games and bad games. If you're town then this is far and away the worst game I've ever played. But I pushed you because you repeatedly dodged doing things you said you'd do for days on end and wrote them off as unimportant.

I am town.
I've done stuff.
I looked at the dead.
It was included in my conclusions, if relevant.
I've done other stuff.
You've not commented on them.

[PeregrineV]

Bah!

[PeregrineV]

@Marquis-

For the love of all that's holy, why did you not pursue your "mason" claim and scumhunt Psyche?

@Everyone else-

frustrating game, but I still enjoyed playing it.

@Shadow-

Horrible shooting in the beginning. Later on, it made sense from your PoV to make the shots you did, but next time as SK shoot more scum please

@Wake

- thanks for running it, and letting me play. I'll have to look back over, but first suggestion might be more frequent vote counts.

[PeregrineV]

PV

- I actually screwed up in early game, and was planning on leaving more scum alive. I realized after D2 that would screw me in the end, and tried doing a little better (but still failed pretty hard).

Since I find the SK kill reasons to usually be different from scum (and you have no one to bounce ideas off of), why did you kill the people you did when you did?