Mini 1628: Rick Santorum Saves Xmas - Gaybepocalypse

[Thestatusquo]

ego

[Thestatusquo]

I will select box 13.

[Thestatusquo]

yeahVOTE: tsq

You already did that.

Stop this fucking liberal SJW bullshit you mother fucking commie obummer piece of shit.
VOTE: Marquis
Die suck die.

[Thestatusquo]

If you get stolen from you cannot steal back from the person who steals it from you. If someone steals from you later you can steal back the original gift that was stolen from you. (I've seen some groups play with a complete no stealsies backsies rule, but thats way less fun imo)

[Thestatusquo]

mod, is there any identifying factors to the boxes at all. I.E. is there something about them that a smart player will be able to figure out in order to "play" this stage rather than it being completely random?

I guess what I'm asking is, is this game play with cues for us to play this game, or is this just meant as a brief diversion?

[Thestatusquo]

Will that change over the course of the game?

[Thestatusquo]

hurry up marq you silly cunt

Serious request pls don't use this word.

[Thestatusquo]

Box 12

[Thestatusquo]

hurry up marq you silly cunt

Serious request pls don't use this word.

but whyyyyyyy

Because it's deeply hurtful to a whole lot of people. I don't want to get into a discussion of this itt, but please please please just don't. I'll settle for just in this game, but in the rest of your life would be nice too.

[Thestatusquo]

So it looks to me like scum get to pick what box the killing mechanism is in and therefore avoid picking it?

Should be useful to look at on later days. People who take boxes that have the killing items in them are likely cleared if that is the case, I feel comfortable saying this because it doesn't lead to wifom because just taking the box with the killing item in it and then just hoping someone steals it seems like too big a risk for the scum team to take.

Thoughts?

Also, bert is full of crap.

[Thestatusquo]

The other possibility is that scum chooses which box has the bad item after the boxes are all out.

That makes some sense since the other way implies to scum do not get to choose who to kill which is a mechanic I've never seen before.

However I discount that possibility slightly because of the time frame of when the last item was happened to when the gifts were revealed and 2 hours is a very short window to get in your kill. It also doesn't make sense from a flavor standpoint because how would they put the item in the box after its been chosen.

Also I hope the "what's in the box???" was a se7en reference.

[Thestatusquo]

What makes you think he was scum?

I see nothing that indicates that to be the case.

[Thestatusquo]

there are several vague flavor cues but there is no actual hard information that says jew = scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Since when is orange the scum flip color? I'd be more likely to associate it with third party.

[Thestatusquo]

mod: do we not get win condition in the flip?

[Thestatusquo]

It could be, but I definitely wouldn't say its certain.

[Thestatusquo]

Did jew really think he was town, TSQ?

I didn't say he was town, I said there was no way to know he was mafia.

Your point was that the way I was positing night kills wasn't likely because he was not town.

What I was getting at was that my point still stands as long as he's not mafia. All my analysis still works just fine if he is thrd party.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the mechanic is bizarre no matter how you look at it,

but I also think thats only bizarre if they're a killing third party.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

Guys, wisdom is obv town. Based off of his interaction with me re: the flip alignment. There is no way that wasn't genuine.

In other news,

serious VOTE: Shinobi

There is a whole FUCK ton of shit that has happened. Those who attempt to keep the game in a random state after there is plenty of information to begin actually playing a serious game are either lazy people playing town like shit or savvy scum trying to deny town information as long as possible.

Which one are you?

[Thestatusquo]

There is no such thing as a scum tell.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

Guys, wisdom is obv town. Based off of his interaction with me re: the flip alignment. There is no way that wasn't genuine.

In other news,

serious VOTE: Shinobi

There is a whole FUCK ton of shit that has happened. Those who attempt to keep the game in a random state after there is plenty of information to begin actually playing a serious game are either lazy people playing town like shit or savvy scum trying to deny town information as long as possible.

Which one are you?

I don't care about this guy voting me.

I wanted to try to say some things about him voting me, but I just can't find anything worth saying to him.

I asked you a fucking direct question fucktwat.

[Thestatusquo]

because one doesn't have a brutal history of being used to oppress people and dehumanize them?

guess which one doesnt!

also I will never do anything that takes the decision of what box to take out of my hands. I can't think of a single dumber thing you could do as town.

[Thestatusquo]

Please explain the drawback of the idea, TSQ. The decision matters more to scum than it does to town. Personally, I don't give a shit which box I take; if there's some kind of investigative x-ray vision into boxes, I can see why it'd be an issue, but otherwise, it's totally arbitrary for town.

Off topic: @TSQ: The words mean literally the same thing... and 'fucktwat' is like a double whammy, connecting the idea of fucking to a woman's body part. If anything that has a worse meaning. Otherwise history of a word being the worst swear word in the media doesn't inherently make it worse.

You do know that historical context exists and its the vast majority of why words are offensive, right? Like, faggot isn't offensive because it means a bundle of sticks. It's offensive because it is a word that has been used to marginalize and dehumanize gay people. Fucktwat is not a word that has been used to demean and harm women, whereas the historical context of the c-word is that it has been used to do those things. There's nothing inherently offensive about referring to a vagina, even if you do so colorfully.

re: boxes. Because I trust my ability to figure out the box system better than literally anyone else. Also, because I am assuming scum knows what box has the killing item and town does not I'd prefer not to possibly give the choice of what box I get to someone who could be scum. Lastly because there is literally no benefit at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I was going to say something like "directing town power roles is stupid just shoot who you want"

and then I was like wait nature of the set up means the fact that it could be a scum role means I'm probably ok with directing it.

[Thestatusquo]

No? Show me the system of oppression that has been furthered by "piece of shit." I am not against insults. I am pro insults. I am against using words that have historically been used to further oppression.

Well, I'm not doing it. Suck it.

[Thestatusquo]

can we not lynch me day 1
like at least after the next elephant phase

Why the hell should we wait for the next elephant phase?

Like what does that have to do with anything?

This is a suspicious post

[Thestatusquo]

wisdom is obv town for reasons already stated. Anyone still voting him is immensely suspicious.

[Thestatusquo]

perhaps you could explain why its awful instead of just saying random crap that doesn't mean anything?

[Thestatusquo]

the "I know I'm town" argument is literally the worst argument in the history of mafia.

[Thestatusquo]

I will cut the fucking snark at the point where you start making fucking sense.

You say "X is shitty"
I say "Why is X shitty? You saying it is not enough for me to believe it is"
You say "Well I know I'm town. Therefore the vote is bad."

Like, that's a bullshit argument, and more to the point, you're experienced enough to KNOW its a bullshit argument. You don't get a free pass here just because you are deciding not to use words that are banned in the site rules anyway.

[Thestatusquo]

I do not agree with shooting marquis, as Aronis said it seems just like trolling and is not alignment indicative. I honestly would not mind shooting TWO or TSQ(damn those abbreviations are too similar). TSQ is just purely a gut read though.

Also wisdom, give me some credit. Your town play is fresh in my head but I think I could figure out your scum play.

I am town as fuck please have your gut checked immediately.

[Thestatusquo]

I do not agree with shooting marquis, as Aronis said it seems just like trolling and is not alignment indicative. I honestly would not mind shooting TWO or TSQ(damn those abbreviations are too similar). TSQ is just purely a gut read though.

Also wisdom, give me some credit. Your town play is fresh in my head but I think I could figure out your scum play.

I am town as fuck please have your gut checked immediately.

How is this different than TSO saying he is town, which led to you attacking him for it being a terrible argument.

Because TSO is responding to an actual argument whereas I am making an offhand comment in response to your "gut" which isn't an argument?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

Guys, wisdom is obv town. Based off of his interaction with me re: the flip alignment. There is no way that wasn't genuine.

In other news,

serious VOTE: Shinobi

There is a whole FUCK ton of shit that has happened. Those who attempt to keep the game in a random state after there is plenty of information to begin actually playing a serious game are either lazy people playing town like shit or savvy scum trying to deny town information as long as possible.

Which one are you?

I don't care about this guy voting me.

I wanted to try to say some things about him voting me, but I just can't find anything worth saying to him.

I asked you a fucking direct question fucktwat.

Okay.

Please kill this with fire.

[Thestatusquo]

Like the other difference is that TSO is using "But he's attacking a confirmed townie!" as justification for an attack as well which is a large part of what I was attacking. I'm not trying to use my self-known innocence as a reason why someone elses posts are bad/likely to come from scum or whatever. I don't think its unreasonable or scummy that you have a gut scum read on me, I just think its wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

Math shut the fuck up you know thats just because Im not going along with your stupid popcorning the white elephant plan.

[Thestatusquo]

Answer the question. You made a play that only makes sense from the perspective of shitty town or scum. Which one are you?

[Thestatusquo]

Like the other difference is that TSO is using "But he's attacking a confirmed townie!" as justification for an attack as well which is a large part of what I was attacking. I'm not trying to use my self-known innocence as a reason why someone elses posts are bad/likely to come from scum or whatever. I don't think its unreasonable or scummy that you have a gut scum read on me, I just think its wrong.

Is insulting his gut not useless then if said insult isn't confirmable?

Math shut the fuck up you know thats just because Im not going along with your stupid popcorning the white elephant plan.

Nah, Konowa's also not going with it, getting slight townvibes from him. It's something else.

Sure. Me telling you my alignment is a useless statement.

Fair enough. Care to try to pinpoint it? What in my posts strikes you to be coming from a scum motivation?

[Thestatusquo]

like specifically, how does my

a) forcibly attempting to not allow people to hide in randomness longer than necessary.
b) attempting to figure out the setup wrt scum kills
c) pointing out that the orange was likely third party and not scum
d) attacking the high momentum wagon on wisdom when I didn't have to say anything at all about it

make sense from a scum perspective?

Note, d would probably make sense if wisdom were my buddy. Day one, however, coming out against that sort of wagon when I didn't even have to say a damn thing about it serves very little conceivable scum purpose.

@fuzz: No I didn't? There's nothing wrong with pointing out that you're town. What I attacked TSO for is completely different from that. Go back and reread my post. I SPECIFICALLY use the language "I know I am town argument." That language is not accidental. My argument is not "TSO SAID HE IS TOWN OMG" my argument is "TSO is making an argument that relies on him being town and FURTHERMORE relies on us and the people attacking him knowing he is town. Not only is that bullshit, but he KNOWS its bullshit, and he's using it BOTH to deflect a legitimate attack on him as well as make an attack against someone else."

Do you really think my point was as unnuanced as "herp derp he said hes town herp derp?"

Come on dude.

[Thestatusquo]

Math the only thing that matters in mafia is motivation behind post. My contention that there is no such thing as a scumtell is not new. I've pretty much been making this argument on this site for like 4 years now. YOU HAVE BEEN IN SITE CHAT WHEN I WAS MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT. Was I scum there to?

The only thing that matters in mafia in this advanced of a meta is "what does the balance of probability with regards to alignment motivations say."

[Thestatusquo]

re: marquis I am wishy washy on how I feel about him. How is that inconsistent with anything I've said or done? Like, its not like having a wishy washy interaction with one person is unreasonable like barely into d1. Especially considering that the rest of my interaction has been anything BUT wishy washy.

[Thestatusquo]

a) Math I can provide you like 4 town games where I've made the exact same argument. I even wrote an article about this.
(http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13710) come on dude. COME ON.

b) Can be faked is obviously a possibility. I was asking you if you really think its what's most likely. Do you think I'm really faking setup spec in order to bring it up when someone attacks me on gut later on? Again, check my meta. I'm not sure but I think you'll find I never do this.

c) What is the scum motivation for pointing it out?

d) I'M NOT ASKING FOR TOWN POINTS. I'm saying "is this action more likely to come from town or scum" if you say scum than you're an idiot, straight up.

Stop with the confirmation bias, pls.

Motivations are pure. You look to who the play helps in order to determine what it is more likely to be the alignment of the person doing it. You can "fake this" sure, but its hard because if you play against your win condition enough you lose the game.

[Thestatusquo]

You're accusing me of being "not genuine" on something I've literally been the champion on since before 90% of this game even knew what mafia was...

[Thestatusquo]

Answer the question. You made a play that only makes sense from the perspective of shitty town or scum. Which one are you?

Neither answer gives you insight that helps you determine my alignment.

The fact that you're pushing for a lynch/shot on me based on the fact that I won't answer it is scummy.

Question circumvented. Suck it, nerd.

Ok, so going with scum then.

Please kill this slot.

[Thestatusquo]

re: marquis you're attacking me for literally finding one post he made scummy and pointing it out? Isn't that just... how you interact with people when they say something noteworthy? I haven't found much else he's done to be noteworthy

[Thestatusquo]

frustrated null is different from a scumread.

[Thestatusquo]

k.

Why don't you want to vote shinobi?

What do you think about TSO?

Who are your top 3 townreads?

[Thestatusquo]

1) it's not a policy vote. There is no town motivation to ignore relevant game information in order to keep the day "random." None. Zip. Zilch. I'm not voting him because I think the action is bad I'm voting him because I think the action is way more likely to come from scum than town. Not only is this just intuitively true, but I've sen this to be the case many many times. Further, I'm interested in how you view his reactions, because frankly they don't seem town to me either. Second part of this is fine. It makes sense to go with your reads over mine, but I object to you dismissing the attack as policy.

2) Do you think scum are more likely to be defensive than town? I haven't observed this to be true. I think TSO is town, probably.

3) I like this list.

Overall I quite like post 321.

[Thestatusquo]

@shinobi: Not this game, unfortunately.

[Thestatusquo]

For you to think I'm mafia based on this logic, you have to actually be mafia.

Please explain this. My nerd brain is too busy "sucking it" to understand what you mean by this.

[Thestatusquo]

For you to think I'm mafia based on this logic, you have to actually be mafia.

Please explain this. My nerd brain is too busy "sucking it" to understand what you mean by this.

Haha, I like you. We can be friends.

At any rate, my issue with your logic is that you called me mafia based off of the fact that I wanted to rvs a second time. Then you asked me a question based on me being either bad town or scum, and demanded for my answer.

I don't see how me answering that question with either option gives you insight into my alignment, in yet you're jumping down my throat based on the fact that I won't answer it.

Sure, but you are aware of this thing called "subtext" right? Like, that question wasn't literally "ARE YOU SCUM LOLZ" I was attacking you and seeing how you responded to the attack. You did not respond in a way that seemed like you were interested in determining my alignment. You responded in a way that suggests that you thought the most important part of the interaction was brushing off the attack. Town cares about the alignment of the people attacking them, scum do not.

That was the reason I didn't like your responses.

[Thestatusquo]

Strong town read on wisdom. Mild townread on tso. I think I have a town read on konowa? But don't quote me on that.

[Thestatusquo]

No, clearly I do not think that. Also, do not mince my words. I am not attacking you for "being defensive"

[Thestatusquo]

That's because you're being an idiot.

Look, being defensive is fine. Town players and scum players are defensive in different ways, that's because the fundamentally different things they're attempting to accomplish. For scum, the alignment of the person attacking them is not important, so when they are defending themselves you do not see them in any way attempting to determine alignment. Usually, however, when town are "being defensive" it reveals a fundamental curiosity about the alignment of the people they're arguing with that I feel is lacking from literally all of your posts.

This, tied into the fact that I believe you were attempting to keep the game random as long as possible (something that scum have motivation to do but town do not) makes me really unlikely to want anyone else to die today.

You also have managed to not comment on basically anything in the game besides yourself and me EVEN NOW on page like 3224243434.

[Thestatusquo]

Like look at your iso, dude. Does it read to you like someone who is interested in knowing the alignments of the other people he's playing with.

You have a one off comment calling mathdino town with no reasoning whatsoever, and every other post is just handwaving.

[Thestatusquo]

It's like the exact opposite of your play.

[Thestatusquo]

I think if someone were trying to pick someone in this game to "prod along" it probably wouldn't be me.

[Thestatusquo]

I think that how or when I attack has very little to do with the opinions of other people in the town.

[Thestatusquo]

Did you mean me or tso...

uhhhh....

[Thestatusquo]

Did I really just get accidentally day-vigged?

[Thestatusquo]

We shall see.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really see a scum advantage to vigging me there with a slip up? Like, there is sufficient coverage to just vig me based on some vague suspicion I think if he really is scared of me enough to day vig me in particular?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm town, by the way.