Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[Xayzeck]

Hi.

Get off my wagon while I catch up.

[Xayzeck]

From that last bit, that doesn't sound very townShinobi.

[Xayzeck]

Sup

What's bm

what's your reads like

[Xayzeck]

My experience with townShinobi?

That depends on whether I'm town or not, really.

I guess the easiest way to put it would be "really good if you're town, not so much if you're scum". Also, not very half-assed, like how you make him out to be.

[Xayzeck]

Hi.

Google it.

Current reads off the top of my head:
Nether - Null
Tempest - Town
Aqua - Town
Mala - Town
Pasch - Scum
Bulb - Null

Everyone else hasn't posted enough or isn't interesting. I actually had a townread on your slot so don't let me down.

Cool, what's your TSO read like? Null?

[Xayzeck]

I'm on like page 3 and I like acryon already for his amazing taste in avvys

[Xayzeck]

I don't like zayzeck's entrance.

Something about it just irks me. Maybe it's because he didn't really

do

anything afterward.

lolwot

Are you serious or are you just posturing to get on my wagon

[Xayzeck]

Because if you're serious that's really dumb

[Xayzeck]

Hm, if you're expecting reads for every page kind of catch up, I'm not doing that. I'll do a read list when I'm done, and there's anything important halfway, I'll bring it up, but other than that I'll just post little blurbs to interact a little

[Xayzeck]

Did you advance in catching up? Any reads/thoughts?

Yall bickering about post colour is kinda dumb

6 pages in

I like Bulba and Mala the most

[Xayzeck]

I'm still leaning town on Shin~ I'm waiting for Xay to catch up. I have exp with him and I can read him, but it comes with time.

You can read scumMe, but in Wikipedia Newbie you scumread townMe.

Plus it's been a while

[Xayzeck]

The fact that there are so many people worried about talking about me rather than the person they are voting for is concerning. Spitfire is almost definitely newbtown lynchbait. If there was a textbook definition of it, it would probably be him in this game.

Does this still stand?

[Xayzeck]

Anything you want to ask me in the meantime? Depending on how tomorrow pans out you might not get an answer for the better part of 24 hours, but ask away.

Eh, not too much from what I've caught up on.

What are your reads like? I kind of like Pasch too, so what's he done that you want to lynch him?

With deadline approaching, which wagon are you most likely to compromise with, since I don't think a Pasch lynch will happen.

[Xayzeck]

Oh, also, what do you like about Mala this game?

She did that wall early on in the game, and I like her though process and the transparency.

Speaking of walls

this game has too damn many of them

so this will take a while, it'll also be a pain

[Xayzeck]

Well, Pasch also had a wall early on in the game, and his analysis was sound, I liked it. Felt like town to me.

I haven't read anything except:
Catching up
What I reply to since replacing in

So yeah, what's wrong with repeating yourself?

What's wrong with meta reads?

Right then, start pushing something. Top scumread that isn't Pasch, since that clearly hasn't gained any traction, unless you want to push it in 4 days to make it for deadline.

[Xayzeck]

If that's the depth of your analysis I'm excited to see who you don't think is town.

Haha, I would go through it but I don't think that's particularly important. It's early-game reads, and I don't think it's that relevant in the current gamestate.

It's literally the last thing I've been posting. I'm not going to waste time and thread space requoting myself. One-line summary: no feeling of commitment behind his reads, he's pushed absolutely nothing and he "forgot" his original Nether vote was no longer a pure RVS.

Right, I'll catch up asap and check it out myself, remind me if I forget.

That's not really my point. Don't try to pretend you give a damn what my read on, say, Malakittens is, except insofar as it reflects on me.

What is your point then? I also don't get that second line.

Yeah, I tried that with Shinobi and nobody was listening there either. And acryon; people were receptive to that but nobody actually voted for him IIRC. My name and meta clearly aren't prestigious enough to accumulate willing sheep, so somebody who does have those can start putting some effort in.

Haha, I don't think an acryon wagon would take off even with a good scumcase really, since there's going to be "He's V/LA til deadline, whoever is pushing this is scummy as fuck" for sure.

[Xayzeck]

My point is that even if I were totally convinced that someone like you or Mala were scum, and wrote up a case, I'm pretty sure I'd get no interest or support from any of the people I listed since they're all convinced they're just going to read one another with meta. Goes double for day 1, though I do think lynching into the most experienced players day 1 is typically a bad move anyway.

Ahh, I see.

So then, are you trying to tell me you've got a super strong scumread on Shinobi and someone else in {Bulba, Mala}?

I, however, would be totally find with lynching him if there's a good case against him. If what you said about the dodges and lurking is true, then despite them being bad lynches, I would lynch lurkers if there's a good reason to.

[Xayzeck]

I think Shiobi is pretty scummy. Not really scum hunting and his play is completely different from a game where we were both town.

VOTE: Shinobi

Who are you sheeping?

[Xayzeck]

Vc

no it's not u liar

[Xayzeck]

Ok maybe I can get behind a Pasch lynch

Anyway I'm down with a cold, halfway through the game. My readlist is gonna have to wait for tomorrow probably, sorry guys. I'll read in bed til I fall alseep, so I should be able to get 75% ish done before tomorrow.

[Xayzeck]

Pfft. Lazy.

Put your vote on someone before I catch up

[Xayzeck]

If nothing else, I'd like to lynch Shinobi because if he's town then of all the townies in this game he's the one I'd feel least bad about mislynching, because he's putting in negligible effort. That inherently makes him an okay chance to flip scum in my book, too.

So what's the scumcase? He's half assed?

[Xayzeck]

V O T E C O U N T

1 . 0 6

[/b]

(3)

Spitfire216 —

Netherspite, Bulbazak, T S O

(L-4)

(2)

davesaz —

Malakittens, acryon

(L-5)

(1)

WaffleGhost —

davesaz

(L-6)

(1)

Shinobi —

Luca Blight

(L-6)

(1)

acryon —

Aquanim

(L-6)

(1)

Netherspite -

Shinobi

(L-6)

(3)

Not Voting —

SpitFire216, Paschendale, WaffleGhost

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

Mod Notes;

• Luca Blight is V/LA until 6/12
  acryon is V/LA until 15/12

[/font]

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-12-15 23:00:00)

It's been 10 minutes tardypanta

[Xayzeck]

That typo and vc shouldn't be there

None of you see it

I like Aqua more, I'm not sure about Mala defending Shinobi, feels buddyish

[Xayzeck]

Well considering the history you two seem to have I'd assume you want the other to townread you as scum

Also note to self, I'm at page 14 and I dislike Bulbs Luck view

[Xayzeck]

That would be Bulba's Luca Vote*

[Xayzeck]

Or she's town.

I'm not keen on this idea because I don't know how you intend to tell the difference between "buddying" and two people townreading each other.

Like, with a read that seems to be pretty meta-reliant, she seems to be defending you pretty damn hard.

[Xayzeck]

How so?

I thought that you calling him out on "took of rvs vote = townreading" and saying that he's stretching felt too critical, and honestly I don't see how it warranted a vote. At most, everything in that catch up is bad-scumhunting, not scummy. I see nothing scum-motivated, and I don't really get the vote.

Unless you're saying meta points to scumLuca?

[Xayzeck]

I'm not sheeping, as you can see in the VC that starts the next page.

That's not really what sheeping means

[Xayzeck]

Are you caught up yet Xayzeck?

I've actually been sleeping so I'm catching up right now.

I like Tempest.

[Xayzeck]

I'm not "following" anyone. I saw, I analyzed, I voted.

Where's the analysis

[Xayzeck]

I dislike how Pasch and Nether haven't initiated an interaction with me.

TSO too but he hasn't talked to anyone so

@Pasch/Nether: Why is my slot scum?

[Xayzeck]

1. You list Paschendale as town but never explain it. (more like a question to you than suspicion)

Can't answer you there.

2. You call TSO scum without a reason, then specifying "starting the joke" as reason, then changing your reasoning to "only claimed scum and yelled at Waffle" and "not being productive".

Why is this scum? It's just newb.

3. In #103 you "only half agree" on Mala and "agree" on Paschendale; then in #107 you're "agree" on Mala and "half agree" on Paschendale. Changing your mind so quick again.

Why is this scum? Inconsistency in thoughts, yeah, but inconsistency in reads, not so much. It doesn't help him posture himself to get on someone's wagon with less suspicion.

4. You claim that joking on p1 "only muddies the water". But there's really no "water" on p1. You seem to be attempting to justify your suspicion towards TSO by using this weak argument.

Why is this scum? It's just newb.

5. Your second reason for voting TSO is "not being productive while posting". When you're being asked about how is that different from you not being productive, you answer that it is because you had no time. Now you say that it is off-day for you IRL and you spend the whole day here yet you still didn't do anything productive. So the reason you're suspecting TSO can be applied to you as well. Why don't you suspect yourself?

Why is this scum? "I am lurk, TSO is lurk, TSO is scum, but I'm not", sure, lots of scum motivation.

6. You find your weak arguments enough to suspect TSO but the point Aquanim has on acryon is not enough for you to suspect him? You admitted his point might be valid. Why treating TSO and acryon so differently?

Why is this scum? Obviously you value your own reads over other's.

7. You unvoted me when got asked about your vote. Wouldn't "it was a RVS vote" be enough? If I were asked on why do I keep my vote on you before I decided to change it from RVS to serious vote, I'd just say it and wouldn't unvote. People usually remove their RVS vote when they have someone better to vote for (or when there is at least L-1). You still didn't provide a good reason for removing your vote exactly at this point.

Why is this scum? I don't get this at all.

tl;dr I don't get your case

[Xayzeck]

There's like a little more to that "case" but I feel like I'll get the same conclusions.

[Xayzeck]

I literally posted one post that I thought was worded better in my head, but I flubbed it because I posted at 2 AM.

You want me to be tryhardy and dickish? I can do that.

I'll be back in 24 hours with a verbose post or several.

I'm looking forward to this.

I like it when townShinobi talks.

[Xayzeck]

I never said that his inconsistency was because he was a newbie.

He half agreed on Mala, agreed on Pasch

Then he agreed on Mala, half-agreed on Pasch

What's your point? It's not like they flipped from town to scum, it's more of they switched between town and nulltown.

[Xayzeck]

Dear mafia gods,

If you could offer up someone easy to read in his place, I'd be most grateful.

Love,
Tempest

Haha!

Hello Tempest, I am town.

[Xayzeck]

btw I kind skimmed over the walls between Nether vs Tempest, because I cba to read them.

If that's been summarized into pointform/a paragraph, then I'll see it eventually, but if that hasn't I'd like if you two could do that really quick.

That entire thing is a lot of clutter than I'm not a fan of.

[Xayzeck]

I dislike how Pasch and Nether haven't initiated an interaction with me.

TSO too but he hasn't talked to anyone so

@Pasch/Nether: Why is my slot scum?

Actually, Nether has talked to me, so I'll take that back.

[Xayzeck]

Okay so hopefully zayzeck will do something soon to clear some of this up. How long does it take to read less than 20 pages?

oh you've got no fucking idea

you wall like a x-man construction worker on speed

[Xayzeck]

It looked more like he forgot who he had as half-town and who as town.
I don't like he could change his reads (even from town to half-town and vice-versa) so quickly without any of them posting, really.

Ok

I kinda get why this makes him scum, fabricated reads and all that, but I feel like we're just nitpicking on a single point.

Overall your case, to me, doesn't seem enough to warrant a scumread; at MOST, nullscum. I don't see how you'd want to lynch this slot so bad.

[Xayzeck]

Some are a little easier to explain than others. I skimmed quite a few walls in this game, mostly Tempest's, simply because:
1) I'd probably get more reliable reads playing the game
2) We don't have the time for that
3) It's boring

Tempest - Town - Yeah, I'm not gonna bother explaining this.

Luca Blight - Nulltown - I don't really have meta tells on Luca, it's been forever since I played with him. I like his transparency in activity, and the fact he actually catches up when he says he's going to. Honestly I need more content, so it's more of a gut-nulltown.

Paschendale - Nullscum - I dislike 517. For one, he's asked about the dave wagon like...once? Or twice, if I missed something. Make himself sound like he's actively trying to figure it out. Also, why'd he even bring up the dave wagon, it's not at all related to what Aqua was talking about. His whole tone is just trying to shut down or demerit Aqua, which I dislike. More evident in 526. The tone's kinda all over his ISO, could be just him as a player. Overall he hasn't stood out a lot for me, kind of flies under the radar. His initial Spitfire vote is meh, don't know what it's like at all now, even though to him the wagon is fine.

Netherspite - Nulltown - I don't like his case on my predecessor, but it feels like it comes from a town-mindset. He's open to my slot, which I like, is willing to discuss it with me, which I also like.

Bulbazak - Town - The thing I dislike most about his slot is how he pushes Luca. I don't know Luca well, so to me it just looks like he pulling this read out of thin air. I'd like to say that he isn't giving Luca a chance, but Luca is lurk. Other than that though, I like his posts.

Shinobi - Town - This is a toneread, slightly meta, but aside from that his content is just lacking. I don't see anything scummy with it, I just don't see enough. I'd like more posts.
T S O - Null - Lurksack.

acryon - Nullscum - I don't think he's done much to further gamestate, I disliked the "1 scum among blahblahblah" thing he did. He did it again in 514, and his stance is so...ugh. Too much "could be but I'm not 100% sure".

Aquanim - Town - I like how open and engaged he is.

davesaz - Nullscum - Feels very distant from the game, his questions kind of lack insight, dislike his Shinobi vote.

Malakittens - Nulltown - This is also a toneread, also I like her confidence in some posts. Very similar to Shinobi, I really need more content. I don't care if she's relying on gut and meta, she's not really helping the game. It's incredibly passive, and the townMala I'm used to in Newbies isn't so passive. Granted, she's usually the IC, so she has to be, and I don't think I've played with her much outside Road to Rome, so this is really a weaker nulltown read.

[Xayzeck]

I never said that his inconsistency was because he was a newbie.

He half agreed on Mala, agreed on Pasch

Then he agreed on Mala, half-agreed on Pasch

What's your point? It's not like they flipped from town to scum, it's more of they switched between town and nulltown.

I'm lost on who "he" is in this post.

Spitfire.

[Xayzeck]

I'm not "following" anyone. I saw, I analyzed, I voted.

Where's the analysis

543

Then why didn't you get him to share his reads? Or try to push them?

[Xayzeck]

@Pasch: Can I get a readlist?

[Xayzeck]

This is so far the most scummy looking slot.
Shinobi being the second and acryon the third.

I still don't get why this slot is scummy at all.

[Xayzeck]

Doesn't the thing you dislike reduce the strength of your townread on him?

The only reason I dislike it is because I don't understand it, and because I've got conflicting reads. But I don't think that really makes him scum, or affects my townread of him THAT much.

Don't you feel he's as distant from the game as davesaz is?
Besides that, I can't recall a single useful post from him.

Not really, maybe because I've interacted with him a bit, but he's had good posts. Maybe if you scrolled through his ISO a little, even though they're short, there's a bunch of stuff that I like, aside from all the "I'm lazy" "Another day" posts. He's really transparent and with some of his stuff too, which I feel is town.

My first game on this forum was a newbie where she played as IC and was pretty inactive and relying on gut feelings.
It matches her behavior here.

Well, I'm not going to disagree. Mala usually gets going at endgame, and I play with her enough to know that, but her ISO is really, REALLY underwhelming. She had that one good wall, but other than that, it doesn't feel like she's acting on her gut, she's just kind of passively observing stuff, which I kind of dislike. I know she gets better, as town, later in the game, when there are flips to help her out, but I dislike that she's not really trying to push her reads actively.

Maybe I haven't played with her in too long to really remember what she's like D1.

[Xayzeck]

I believe that being voted may have that effect on him.

So, are you voting him because you think he's scum, or because you want him to be more protown?

[Xayzeck]

Well, you're criticizing my case using mostly "he's just newbie" argument and I strongly dislike the idea to give a free pass to any newbie just because he's a newbie.
People sometimes are faking being a newbie to excuse their scummy looking mistakes.

That's not true, I used that argument twice, not for the whole case.

The only reason I bring this up as newb is because it struck me as a newb not being able to articulate why he scumreads someone, and when it gets shot down he tries to bring up something else.

Do you have anything to suggest he's not a newb?

[Xayzeck]

You can't just sweep your predecessor's actions under the rug and pretend they didn't happen. Newb scum could be replaced by experienced scum who knows how to talk his way out of a tough spot. That doesn't make the earlier actions any less scummy.

I'm not ignoring my predecessor's actions, I'm saying they're not from a scum-perspective. I believe my predecessor was newbtown, and I'll defend him that way.

Yes, newbscum can be replaced by experience scum to save the slot. What's your point? Do you think it's happening now with me replacing Spitfire?

No, just because someone more experienced replaces in, doesn't mean the predecessor is less scummy. But what are you suggesting? That I openly accept that my predecessor is scummy, claim scum, and vote myself?

[Xayzeck]

Anyone else notice how Xayzeck is defending Shinobi by questioning his attacker, while Mala is just flat out defending him?
I'd think this is the scum team, if it weren't so unlikely that they'd be so obvious about defending each other.

Confbias.

[Xayzeck]

Oh well, there also were some "Why is this scum?" answers.
If you don't see these actions as scummy I can't help there. For me it looked scummy.
May be every single point alone was not VERY scummy, but I don't believe someone could do ALL of this as town.
Just does not fit in my head.

Some of them, I don't really get how it points to him being scum.

I think the main bulk of your case is that his reads are inconsistent, and that they change a lot, really quickly, with no new input, yes? None of these reads are very critical, that allow him to support major wagons, so there's no explicit scum motivation.

The only way to push it is that his reads keep changing because they're fabricated, and so he can't remember what he said last time so he pulls something out of his ass, but that seems like a pretty weak reason to push to me. Maybe because I know he's town.

[Xayzeck]

Nice buzzword. I asked Mala about why she was so sure about Shinobi well before deciding that Shinobi was scum.

But let's explore this. Why do you feel like Shinobi needs defending?

Because Shinobi is town.

I don't get how you asking Mala about Shinobi has anything to do with this.

[Xayzeck]

2. You call TSO scum without a reason, then specifying "starting the joke" as reason, then changing your reasoning to "only claimed scum and yelled at Waffle" and "not being productive".
4. You claim that joking on p1 "only muddies the water". But there's really no "water" on p1. You seem to be attempting to justify your suspicion towards TSO by using this weak argument.

I kinda just accepted that you were right, but I figured to go back and check these out for myself.

He didn't call TSO scum without a reason, he called TSO scum because he claimed scum. 25 49

After that, he adds not doing anything to the list of why he scumreads TSO.

I myself don't really get the "muddies the water" argument though, because I don't really know what it means lol

[Xayzeck]

You used confbias, in response to my post about you and Mala defending Shinobi.
I pointed out that thinking you three might be scum together can't be confbias because I questioned Mala's townread before I had a scum read on Shinobi.

Saying Shinobi is town doesn't mean he is. He's not scum hunting, and in fact he's actively avoiding doing any hunting. Something like 75% of his posts are dodgy one-liners. Playing like this is different than what I've seen from him as town in the past. What evidence do you have that he's town?

It might be arguable that I should be scum reading Mala for her town read of Shinobi before he had posted anything meaningful. But there's no reason they can't both be scum, and I'm working on Shinobi right now.

Confbias is that you're suggesting Shinobi/Xay through that interaction only because you scumread Shinobi and I, when in fact I would be pushing you regardless of whether it was a Shinobi vote or not, because the whole point I'm pushing you is that the vote came out of nowhere.

Only his recent posting has dodgy one-liners, the rest are questions and pushes. If you just scroll through his ISO, he's not as useless and sideline as everyone makes him out to be.

I was considering them being scum together, since Mala's defence didn't feel very justified, but I don't think that's the case.

[Xayzeck]

@Nether: I'll get back to you tomorrow. Honestly it's quite tiring having to defend my predecessor, since I myself have no idea what the fuck he's tryna do

[Xayzeck]

I should be sleeping

Amished tell is what it's called

Also how is that relevant. The "smth like this has happened" is so fucking dumb

I've seen people replace in that cannot defend their predecessor but flip town

What's the relevance in that

[Xayzeck]

Only his recent posting has dodgy one-liners, the rest are questions and pushes. If you just scroll through his ISO, he's not as useless and sideline as everyone makes him out to be.

Show me an example of something you consider useful.

200

[Xayzeck]

Do you see the difference between his reasoning in his consequent posts #105 and #107 ?
He's not only changing his reads rapidly, he's also changing the reasons of his reads. The only sane explanation for that is him forging his reads and reasons for them and forgetting them fast.

In 107, he added not doing anything to the list, I'm pretty sure he listed "starting the joke" in 107 as well.

[Xayzeck]

I've been less active in general over the last few days. That's why Aqua suddenly thinks I'm scum, and also why I haven't had anything to say to you. Of course, why then did it take you so long to interact with me? Spitfire wasn't pushing any genuine reads. He was playing as if he had no real suspicions, mostly just defended himself, and what little attempt he made to scumhunt that wasn't just OMGUS was more tactical than it was deductive. All indicative of day 1 scumplay without a plan.

He pushed TSO.

It can also be newbtown who is concerned about being scumread and getting lynched.

So, no actual scumreads? That's suspicious, too.

Ok.

And yet still never gotten an answer about it.

Thanks for selective quoting, you only asked, like, once, about the dave wagon, prior to the post in question (514 was it?)

Anyone else find it fishy that Acryon is v/la until exactly after the deadline is over? He's basically parked on this unfounded Dave wagon that no one will defend. He's a wasted vote that won't go to helping us lynch scum today.

I dislike the votepark, but I don't think the V/LA has anything to do with it.

[Xayzeck]

One last thought: how is it that Nether is totally up-in-arms about me meta'ing people as town, in yet wants to policy lynch me because of it? If that's the case, why doesn't he want to policy lynch Mala for the same thing because that's literally all she does. Instead, he reads her as town because she always metas, but wants to lynch me because I'm relying on meta.

I don't think he's trying to PL you?

[Xayzeck]

I'm good with lynching Luca, Acryon, Nether, or Pasch. I'm willing to compromise on Dave, but I'd prefer not to. Anyone else I will not vote for. I'll place my final vote before I go to sleep tonight.

What's the Nether read?

[Xayzeck]

Luca/Pasch are not good lynch candidates for today.

What's the Pasch read like?

[Xayzeck]

I don't know how you can describe Xayzeck's posting as "solid".

What's wrong with it? :<

[Xayzeck]

Yo Tempest

What's your lynch pref

[Xayzeck]

It's not really all that important to the outside observer I don't think unless you think it will help you get reads. I liked his interaction with me and think he might be town from it.

Well, if Nether comes up as town to you in it, then honestly I don't think it's important.

I'd be more relevant if you two scumread each other, but since I townread Nether too

then yeah

[Xayzeck]

(i kinda meant why)

[Xayzeck]

With Spitfire? Or another read?

[Xayzeck]

I too, am fine with a Pasch lynch.

I'm just waiting for a VC.

[Xayzeck]

If he'll flip town feel free to lynch me tomorrow.

I don't like this

[Xayzeck]

not in a "this is scummy" kind of way

[Xayzeck]

And the fact that all you're doing is trying to salvage his position instead of forging a new one yourself is definitely not pro-town.

VOTE: Pasch

[Xayzeck]

Yo TSO your vote is shit

[Xayzeck]

The vote for me

I'm cool with dave votes

[Xayzeck]

We've got a day and a half left

[Xayzeck]

That's why his only real target has been me, the loudest detractor of his slot.

Nah I'm voting you because objectively your case is bullshit.

[Xayzeck]

Pasch, you like to do this thing where you don't quote or link posts to help justify you read, and you end up just summarizing everything and making this narrative of a user's ISO.

I hate it.

Why? Because people are going to review that ISO with your narrative in mind, and everything that your narrative shares in common with a player's ISO is going to stand out a LOT more, even though your narrative is inaccurate.

[Xayzeck]

Saying that my play can largely be defending my predecessor and nothing else, not even scumhunting, is so superficial, and misreps me so much, it's literally the MOST horrible thing you could say about me, it just sounds like you're trying to make me look bad.

You complain that none of my posts come from a "trying to figure you out" perspective, likewise for my predecessor. Have you ever tried to figure me out? Because I initiated an interaction with you that went absolutely nowhere.

Can we rope this guy now?

[Xayzeck]

That depends on who you want to flip the wagon onto next.

[Xayzeck]

Except that it is actually spot on, and you just don't like how it implicates you.

wow you can read minds

No, you whined at me and called me a liar with nothing to substantiate it. Oh, and you apparently asked me for a reads list that I didn't notice. Sometimes I miss the "@" posts.

Good job at ignoring a question you can't answer, because you've never tried to figure me out.

While catching up I made an effort to interact with people to get reads on my own, since I don't like looking into alignments much when catching up. After that my main focus was to read the people on my wagon and try to understand why they are voting me, as well as defend my predecessors actions to get people off my wagon.

If you choose to call that scum, then you're just trying to fit my play to a scumplay, and it's dumb.

[Xayzeck]

Pasch's stuff on the last two pages makes me not want to lynch him.

Why

[Xayzeck]

Personally I consider focusing on reducing size of your wagon scummy.
Why are you focusing on people in your wagon? Don't you consider possibility of having most of the scum (or all of the scum) outside of your wagon?

Because if they scumread me, then that gives me an immediate opportunity to interact with them and read them.

It's totally possible that all the scum are off my wagon, how is that related?

[Xayzeck]

with 12 hours or so to spare I hate that he isn't even at L-1

[Xayzeck]

I won't be around at deadline, so my vote will be on Pasch unless someone has a good reason to flip the wagon on to someone else in the next ~7 hours.

[Xayzeck]

If you're trying to reduce the size of your wagon then questioning only those who is in it is reasonable. This is not the town goal though.
However, if your goal is to find scum, I highly doubt questioning only people who votes you is the way to go.

Also, you seem to be overly concerned about getting Paschendale lynched.

My goal is to find scum, which I do by reading people. So, I decided to reduce the size of people on my wagon by asking them what they're case is, and defending myself, and I read them through this interaction.

Whether they turn out town or scum is not important, what's important is that I read them. I also read people offwagon, so I'm really not sure what your point is?

I'm concerned about getting

a

lynch, deadline is ~12 hours away and nobody is close to L-1.

[Xayzeck]

Shin, Bulba, Aqua.

Shin is most of my early Iso, Aqua is 495, Bulb shortly after when I brought up the Luca vote.

All three town, you can also refer to my catch up readlist

[Xayzeck]

Oh yes I remember how you just put Bulbazak in your townpile while your only comment about his behavior was regarding weirdness of his Luca vote.
I didn't get it and still don't.

Shinobi also mysteriously moved from "that doesn't sound very townShinobi" to "town".

Can you elaborate on why do you townread them in this game and how exactly did you come to that conclusion? What questions did you ask them to get the information you want and how their answers changed your mind to the strong townreads?

On Bulba, his play is fine in a sense that he's actively asking questions, he's very open in his stuff, he'll just say what he likes and doesn't like, what he thinks is town and what isn't when unprompted, I read it as very protown, therefore he is a townread.

However, his Luca read is largely a metaread that I don't understand, and so to me it looks like he's not really giving Bulba a chance to explain himself. What is probably happening is that he already recognizes that Luca's scum, and therefore when he responds to Luca's post he isn't approaching from a "I'm trying to figure you out" mindset, but a "I'm pressuring you" mindset. What I wanted to know was whether it was strictly meta or not, and he said it is. There's nothing wrong with it though.

Shin's a metaread for me, but I just like his relaxed-confident posting when interacting with me. Also, "that doesn't sound very townShinobi" was me addressing Aqua's representation of Shinobi, not me addressing Shinobi directly, since I hadn't read the game fully at that point in time.

[Xayzeck]

Oh it's day

[Xayzeck]

I would be cool with acryon too, or TSO, for today

VOTE: Nethersprite

But this townread is no more

[Xayzeck]

I feel like dave could be scum because Pasch didn't want on his wagon dayend

[Xayzeck]

Personally, I dislike how Nether sounded so ready at daystart, like he had planned what to say.

But at this point I'm find with lynching whoever, since there's 1 scum left. Has me lazy

[Xayzeck]

I'd replace TSO with Dave personally

[Xayzeck]

Tone read.

He hasn't done anything scummy to me

[Xayzeck]

TSO tunnels quite a bit in my experience

Also a bit of meta reading. The discredit is the only valid scumpoint imo? His Patch read could just suck, but since he thinks Pasch is town he just pushes the counterwagon.

[Xayzeck]

WAIT I'm doing other stuff haven't caught up yet

but hello mala

[Xayzeck]

VOTE: Dave

[Xayzeck]

I could be feeling up to a Xay lynch.

i'll never get lynched

not this game

[Xayzeck]

ANYWAY i feel like I wanna lynch too many people for a game that's only got 1 scum left

[Xayzeck]

If acryon or TSO are the last scum Paschendale might not have felt comfortable piling a third scum vote onto Dave. Not saying this is necessarily the only reason, but it's plausible IMO.

i understood none of this

can you reexplain it

[Xayzeck]

it's ok aqua, mala probably hasn't had her coffee

[Xayzeck]

I see you point on Dave

I could buy that Dave should get townpoints because Luca voted him, but not that Pasch didn't want to vote him. That could just be, like you said, defending his buddy or WKing.

[Xayzeck]

TSO is town

will catch up some other time

[Xayzeck]

With one scum left I'm not particularly motivated to hunt any more, and since I don't have much time today, I'll podge and get back to this another time. Hope yall are cool widdat

[Xayzeck]

With one scum left I'm not particularly motivated to hunt any more, and since I don't have much time today, I'll podge and get back to this another time. Hope yall are cool widdat

I'm not - I have tried to explain logic to these people and they don't get it.

Don't worry you won't get lynched

and this game won't get to a point where you need to worry about it

[Xayzeck]

That quote implies none of those things.

[Xayzeck]

It's 8:1 right now, and I refuse to believe that it will get to a point where it's 2:1, therefore he doesn't have to worry about being scumread or being lynchbait, since there's no way this game will reach a critical point where his lynchbaitness becomes significant.

And TSO is town, he won't get lynched.

[Xayzeck]

If someone selfvotes, I don't think there's any point in asking for claims anymore, Shin.

[Xayzeck]

Or Xayzeck, for that matter.

I don't think he'll flip scum, but I don't have a confident enough read on him to defend it. It's mostly tonal and gut read on Nether, and honestly I'm short on time since RL's really hectic right now.

[Xayzeck]

Picking up prod

[Xayzeck]

So what happened to nether wagon.

[Xayzeck]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

[Xayzeck]

I'm meta reading him, and since Bulba and Mala echo my reads and they can't all be scum, I feel more confident

^about TSO

This strikes me as a little off. You wouldn't be confident in town reading TSO using meta, if others didn't think the same thing?
If you put a little less faith in the meta and in matching others' reads, and look at what TSO is actually posting, can you honestly say you think he's town on that basis?

I'm not confident in reading TSO through meta 100% accurately, I'd say it's like a 65%, but if Bulba and Mala, people who play with TSO a lot more and are more familiar with his play townread them too, I'm more confident that TSO is town. They can't all be scum, at MOST only 1 of them is scum.

You catch my drift? Or are you gonna ignore it and make me look bad

[Xayzeck]

Acryon could be town

[Xayzeck]

Why massclaim?

[Xayzeck]

I don't see how JK gets us clears since JK is scum but I see the RC

[Xayzeck]

or right so backup jk is scum?

[Xayzeck]

Claim: Backup Role Cop

I missed my first night investigation because I procrastinated, but I checked TSO last night and got Backup JK back.

I thought he was town because I thought backup JK was town, I'm dumb! I didn't want to listen to the T S O case mostly because I didn't bother looking into it now that I could check him and get it over with, but more importantly if he was scum I didn't to get my butt rekt so yeah

VOTE: TSO

gg

[Xayzeck]

tl;dr lynch tso and we win

[Xayzeck]

You'd think that I'd be better than that and realise that TSO blindly calling Pasch and Luca town would mean something huh?

[Xayzeck]

Sorry those in the graveyard/whoever pushed TSO for being a dense motherfucker

please dont hate me <3

[Xayzeck]

dense motherfucker being me if that didn't come out very clear

[Xayzeck]

Claim: Backup Role Cop

I missed my first night investigation because I procrastinated, but I checked TSO last night and got Backup JK back.

I thought he was town because I thought backup JK was town, I'm dumb! I didn't want to listen to the T S O case mostly because I didn't bother looking into it now that I could check him and get it over with, but more importantly if he was scum I didn't to get my butt rekt so yeah

VOTE: TSO

gg

quoting for the page top

[Xayzeck]

Indeed

Nice avvy

[Xayzeck]

note to self my tso meta read is outdated

[Xayzeck]

PEdit: I started writing this about 10 posts ago.

I'm not 100% sure there aren't offbeat ways to play it as scum that degrade the following a little, but I think we can win with a massclaim as follows.

We massclaim. Either scum/the real PR counters one of the claims which gives us a 50/50, or doesn't counter in which case we get 3 conftown. Can't see any way scum would claim/counter as it's suicidal at best.

Lynch today gives us 1/5 chance we'll hit scum on the lynch and win outright even if the 5 non-PR are equal chance. Better odds if we're right on who is scummy or one of the people we've been thinking was scummy is one of the PRs. Somewhere between 20% and 50% chance of a scum lynch, even taking a pessimistic approach.

Then for night we have 3PR, 1 scum, 4 VT. We clear a minimum of 1 VT and 2 PR survive no matter what, entering day with 2PR, 1 conftown, 1 scum, 2VT at worst.
33% chance of lynching scum on random odds, worst case we lynch a VT.
Next night, 2PR, 1 scum, 1 conftown, 1VT. Scum kills a PR but the other PR clears the VT, game over.

PEdit2: Wait for the complete massclaim to lynch TSO.

I'm VT

.

I've essentially got a cop guilty

If we lynch the guilty and I'm right, we win.

If we lynch the guilty and I'm wrong, you lynch me since I have no reason to lie as town, therefore I must be scum, and you still win.

Can you just vote?

[Xayzeck]

Coolio

[Xayzeck]

Haha did I drop a lot of pr tells? I'm interested in bettering my pr play

probably by first not forgetting to send in a night action hm

[Xayzeck]

Actually, Xayzeck missing the first investigation is pretty sickening for me.

Yeah it was a tossup between you and Bulba mostly, and I put off that decision too long and I didn't even know deadline passed

I fucked up bigtime and just wanted it to hit night again so I could get it right this time

[Xayzeck]

You did play to your town meta pretty well though

[Xayzeck]

ayyyyy lmao

look who rolled JK

who also rolled JK in that game with the ZZZX/bitmap newbie that we were both in

[Xayzeck]

I don't think you did that bad TSO

considering you still made it through a day after losing your buddies, and lost to investigations

don't feel too down

[Xayzeck]

Yeah.

I said this in the Scum PT too - but school -did- hinder me there. I would honestly probably have bussed Pasch - there was a seat at the end if I'd had the inclination too. My exams were on during the days of Pasch being ran up and I just pushed dave instead because I was kinda rushing.

The answer is to stop going to school and dedicate your life to mafia.

It's the only sensible choice here.

Mafia full time doesn't sound very appealing tbh

[Xayzeck]

Yeah.

I said this in the Scum PT too - but school -did- hinder me there. I would honestly probably have bussed Pasch - there was a seat at the end if I'd had the inclination too. My exams were on during the days of Pasch being ran up and I just pushed dave instead because I was kinda rushing.

The answer is to stop going to school and dedicate your life to mafia.

It's the only sensible choice here.

Mafia full time doesn't sound very appealing tbh

Are you not getting paid for this? I've got sponsors.

no I'm totally not sponsored by Sony to play mafia on the Sony Z3 Compact

[Xayzeck]

vt i guess

[Xayzeck]

jailing is a doc/roleblock isn't it?

[Xayzeck]

According to role pm, jailing is strictly a rb and a doc, so it's correct.

Lovely modding BBT, sorry about the prods

Gg all

Promise I won't forget night actions again

[Xayzeck]

TSO nailed Mala and I though lol

[Xayzeck]

Xay you PR-told when you dropped Cabd and I's famous line~

Oh? Where